the house is on fire, and the arsonists can't seem to figure out why. kevin mccarthy and house republicans, said send the

federal government carrying towards a shutdown, as donald trump continues to pull the strings. congressman eric swalwell has made a name for himself, calling out the crazy across the aisle, and he is coming up first. plus, trump implies that general mark milley should get the death penalty. concerning enough on its own, even more so when you consider milley could be a witness, in the former presidents trials. that also today rupert murdoch steps aside, i've got a few thoughts with the legacy he leaves, behind in the future of fox news. and later my wide, ranging exclusive interview with hillary clinton, her thoughts on the trump indictment, republicans ridiculous impeachment inquiry, in the state of the 2024 race for president. yeah i so, remember back in january when it took 15 rounds of votes over five days for kevin mccarthy to be elected speaker of the house? which, by the way, required selling his soul on a secret deal that we still don't know

lot about extreme right wing of his party. there are literally has not been a more chaotic strip to a speakership, ever. and yet this, week with the house paralyzed, and barreling towards a shutdown, mccarthy seemed to act shocked, by the unruly behavior of his caucus. >> this is a whole new concept, and they just wanna -- it doesn't work. >> really? it's a whole new concept, that some republicans want to burn the place down? well, do i have use for you to -- have you been speaking for the last couple of years? the building has been on fire for years. ten years ago, republicans, led by ted cruz in the tea party, forced a government shutdown, remember that? five years ago, and then president trump, a republican house, and a republican senate, they controlled everything, somehow managed to shut themselves down, for a record 35 days. earlier this year, maga republicans also pushed our country to default on its debt. and if we really want to talk about burning the whole place

down, when the actual capital building was under attack by a group of insurrectionists, kevin mccarthy and his majority, and the majority of his party, simply waved it off, and pledge loyalty to the architect of that chaos, donald trump. his destructive behavior is anything but new, and it's worth remembering remembering, in this moment, kevin mccarthy had an off ramp, more than one off ramp, out of this mess. after january 6th, they could have followed through plans tell trump to resign. instead, he backed off, far, far off, all the way down to mar-a-lago, to kiss the ring. it now, trump is effectively running the, house he is pulling the strings, he knows it. and in a post on truth social, he made it pretty clear right now wants to shut the government down. to obstruct the prosecutions, against him. for what it's worth, it doesn't quite work that way, but that aside. so, yes, speaker mccarthy, they want to burn the place down. but this is not new, and even if trump is pulling the strings behind the curtain, mr. mccarthy, you are the speaker

of this house. it is your job to fix it, to put out the fire. the big question now, less than a week away from potential government shutdown, is whether you can do their job. >> joining me now is democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. and thanks so much for joining me this afternoon. i just want to start with. >> my pleasure. >> what is happening in the house. how do you explain, to people who haven't been tracking this closely, what is going on in the house right now? >> kevin mccarthy is a spectator speaker, he may have the title, but donald trump and marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz, they all share the job. and the problem is that mccarthy is only worried about his own job, and not the jobs of your viewers, the millions who will be affected if we don't pay our troops, if we don't pay border agents, if we don't pay air traffic controllers. and so, mccarthy couldn't could simply bring forward the same legislation that senator schumer and mcconnell had worked on the senate, that

president biden would sign, and put the country first. and we, would fund the government before funding ran out. but instead, the house republicans are failures. they are the failures, they have failed to govern. and because they can't govern, they have failed to fund. and because they can't fund on every core area where we need government, they are going to fail to protect. they are the failures, jen. >> now we are just six days away, it is such an important point. the senate has already passed these funding bills, democrats and republicans. do you have any level of confidence we can avoid a shutdown, at the end of this week? >> there are if kevin mccarthy puts the country ahead of his own job, yes, we can do that. and by the way, i would like to think that this isn't the only job the guy could get. that if he lost his job because he did the right, thing he would be rewarded, and there will be something better in the future. but if he is is only look at this through the prism of, how do i stay in power, well, he can buy himself another day, another week, another month. but, it comes at the cost of americans, americans who will

suffer if the government is shut down. so i am not too optimistic. he may have to do something that he has not done before. but, democrats, we are working for working people, and we have shown, on raising the debt ceiling, and paying americas bills, that if he wants to come to us for votes, we will be there to deliver the votes. >> there are legislative maneuvers that could force a vote to the floor, involving democrats and some republicans. do you think that is where we are at? is that a likely possibility at this point? >> unfortunately, it may come to that, jen. and that is called a discharge petition, a very washington park, e word. but it would require, it would require republicans crossing over, some of them have already said that they may be willing to do that. and so on funding the, government on keeping ukraine in the fight, it looks like that may be kind of the firewall against the chaos, that mccarthy and maga republicans can bring to. us >> i wanted to ask you about donald trump's role here. he obviously has no official

role in the house operations, but he is clearly pulling strings behind the scenes. he posts on truth social, in part, quote, this is also the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me, and other patriots. that's not how it works, but what do you make of his demand, and his role in this case? >> donald trump and mccarthy in, and the other pro insurrection republicans have never accepted joe biden as the president. they have tried to run, and incite, and inflame an insurrection. that failed, they voted to acquit the insurrection, when we brought forth impeachment proceedings in the house and the senate. many of mccarthy's folks go to the january 6th prisoners, and they visit them to give them comfort and aid. and so, they have never accepted president biden as a legitimate president. and this week, even as we are hurtling towards shut down, they will hold impeachment proceedings, which is just a continuation of the insurrection. and so, this is all about just putting donald trump in charge.

the house, unfortunately, has become a law firm, with just one client, donald trump. and again, it is at the expense of the american people, who have needs on bringing their health care costs down, keeping their kids safe, in school. and in, just a couple of days, student loan repayments were to start back up, and so people are going to feel the pain there. they need action on these issues, again, instead, all they get from the house republicans's actions for one client, and that is the twice impeached, 91 count indicted former president. >> you had quite a moment this week, at a hearing, where attorney general merrick garland was testifying. i want to play this moment, or you call out your colleague jim jordan, after he said that the attorney general should be held in contempt of congress. because, you really cut to the core of it here. yet >> mr. jordan, is about 500 days into evading his subpoena. about 500 days.

so if we're going to talk about contempt of congress, let's get real. i mean, are you serious, that jim jordan, a witness to one of the greatest crimes ever committed in america, a crime or more prosecutions have occurred that any crime committed in america, refuses to help this country? and we are going to get lectured, about subpoena compliance? mr. attorney general, you are serious, they are not. you are decent, they are not. you are fair, they are not. >> so congressman, i mean, you kind of punch back, verbally, at the police there. do you think that is something that democrats should be doing more of at the end -- but is that part of your strategy, what you want to see from others? >> yes, and that is because you know, nature abhors a vacuum. and in a void, republicans will continue to tell lies about president biden. and that is, in part, why i think his approval rating is as

low as it is, is that they tell these lies, we don't punch back hard enough. we play on our side of the field, rather than there is. and then on the right-wing media ecosystem, it just reinforces those, lies and then they use the low poll numbers to justify why they are going to lean in even more. and so, i do believe in every hearing in, we should take what i call a 3d approach. you know, first immediately discredit them, and with jordan it is easy to discredit him, because he won't even honor his own subpoena. to, to be bunk any of the claims that they are making that are false, don't chase every single one of them, but the substantive ones that could really be, i wouldn't say, pervert the truth, you have to debunk those. and then, always pivot to what we have delivered, and what we will deliver, in a new majority in the house, under president biden, and a majority in the senate. so, discredit, debunk, and always deliver. and i think that plays on their side of the field, rather than being on our heels, on our own.

>> that's some pretty good advice, i hope people listen. before i let you go, new jersey senator bob menendez was charged with bribery this week. i know you have said you are waiting to see how your new jersey college respond. but governor phil murphy, a majority the house democrats from new jersey, have already called on him to resign. so, do you think he should resign? >> he should. and also, i think it's important that we point out that, speaking of merrick garland, that any idea that the department of justice is being weaponized to protect president biden is just nonsense. this is the chairman of the foreign relations committee, one of the most powerful positions in government. and merrick garland is moving with his department of justice, to indict this senator. and so, this just shows that the rule of the law applies to everyone, whether it's the former president, or whether it's the current president's son, or whether it's a democratic senator. but in the same spirit, i would

really love to see my republicans, who like to get all high and mighty whenever something happens to democrats, or like to make these accusations against merrick garland, call on george santos to resign, who has actually admitted to almost everything that he has been charged with. and, call on clarence thomas to resign, who day after day, we learn more and more about people who have come before the court, who have invested millions in clarence thomas. , and his family, and his livelihood. so again, it seems like democrats are the only ones who are consistent,, and care about the rule of law applying to everybody. and, i hope that your viewers, and voters recognize that, when they have to make decisions about who should be in charge. >> congressman eric swalwell, i know from having little kids myself, you have a busy sunday of soccer games and other events ahead. thank you so much. >> so much chaos. >> [laughter] pure chaos, thanks. >> thanks, my pleasure, thank you. >> coming up, can trump's social media posts about general mark milley be consider witness intimidation? plus, i'll ask hillary clinton

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hosted an attack against the outgoing chairman of the chief of staff mark milley. trump calls him a woke train wreck and insinuated the general should have been executed for treason. trump does a lot of crazy stuff. let's pause on that for a. moment the former president of the united states has openly mused about the execution of his former top military advisor. even by trump standards that pretty crazy. those threats could also have serious legal implications. it's possible that he could serve as a witness and the

federal cases against trump. drummer back during the select committees investigation into january six? milley testified to the state of mind after he lost the 2020 election. >> we're in the oval and there's a discussion. the president says law, i think it's pompeo. he said words, like we need to let the issue go to the next guy. >> now, we don't know yet if million will be a witness for the prosecution against trump and the federal elections case. he certainly could be. it all comes as chutkan ways whether or not to issue a gag order on the former president. it's hard to believe that threats like those wouldn't have an impact on her decision. joining me now, it's solicitor general neil captain. it's not broken up. weisman is traveling. we're thrilled to have neal with us today. neil, i want to start there. mark milley is such a significant figure.

do you think having watched a lot of this in the past that he is going to be a witness for the prosecution in the federal elections case? >> i do. i don't think that mr. bone spurs isn't any position to criticize any member of our military, let alone a war hero like millie. it's not clear to me, jen that what we saw was a death threat by the way some are portraying it with. it is ridiculous when the context is someone who is almost certainly a witness in january 6th. if not mar-a-lago. if not the court of colorado case. in which there's been a protective order filed. and that's one thing we. we constitutional lawyers have a limited imagination. a lawless president is the refugee as the worst thing we imagined. the article that trump has respond to by goldberg and the atlantic about really paints a

picture of trump as just plain nuts. nobody like that should have the ability to launch a nuclear weapon and destroy the planet. i hope this article spurs to struck -- about a week excuse policy. so no president can do something like this. the article is terrifying. every american should read it. >> i think security experts would agree. anyone who reads that article. we are waiting this, week. neil chutkan -- we are waiting for trump's response from the team. we are waiting for chutkan to make a decision about this protective order. we how does all of this way into that? his continued threats. >> trump was already on thin ice beforehand and remember that chutkan right from the start when she first brought him into the court and had the first hearing, he was burned. you have to stay within the

lines. trump has been pushing those lines dramatically over the last six weeks. this tweet is further evidence of that. i have been hoping that chutkan won't call donald trump directly in the court and look at him and say you can't do that. it's not the way any criminal trial can operate. you are not special. you are a criminal defendant, donald trump. not president donald trump. >> we are waiting for the deadline tomorrow for trump's team to respond here. what are you anticipating the argument will be as they respond to the gag order request? re spond to the gag order >> a lot of whining about free speech and the first amendment. the first amendment does not prevent him from doing some things. not intimidate witnesses and interfere with the search for truth. the whole point of a criminal trial is to have a regularized and orderly and specific process so people feel

comfortable going and telling their stories. as i said, the judge in the colorado case has issued a protective order barring them from intimidating or threatening witnesses. >> neil kathy l, i know you're getting an award in london. congratulations and thank you for taking the time. i look forward to seeing you again soon. up next i sit down with hillary -- clinton. i will get our take on everything from the chaos in the house to vladimir putin's persistence influence on american politics. later, i have some things to get off my chest on rupert murdoch's departure from fox news. and what it means for the network. network. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? -uhuh. the designer's eyeing sequins. uh no plaid. while mom is eyeing his spending. nice. and the engineer? she's taking control with her own account for college.

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biden and donald trump. the new poll today is just the latest to show that biden and trump are virtually tied. it should not be a surprise to anyone. despite the fact we do still have a long way to go, the polls will document concerns about what has been a tradition for some of the democratic party. the early panic as my old boss called it the bed-wetting. how concerned should democrats. b i caught up with hillary clinton this week at the clinton global initiative to get her perspective. she had a lot to say about the race, donald, trump the republican party, and the looming presence of a certain russian leader. >> the polling right now for 2024 for the presidential race is -- that something that surprises you or worries you? >> no, it doesn't yet. we are a long way out. i think there is a kind of

looking and shopping mentality in voters like who am i going to have to vote for. i'm not happy with. that they're never happy with the choices. i've seen that for many years. >> the purple unicorn. >> the purple unicorn honestly i think that the issues will not be joined for quite some time. i feel good about where the democrats are. where president biden and vice president harris are. i think biden is the one who says this all the time. don't judge me against the almighty. judge me against the alternative. i've been very clear in saying i am for the biden harris ticket because of what they've accomplished which i value and i think it's making a big difference in helping us shape our future. i'm also for them because the alternative is so dangerous. i think people will begin to pay more attention as time goes by. >> when you mention the ticket

you have fought against more sexism and public than anybody probably. globally from vladimir putin to right wing republicans and the gamut. there has been more talk in my time about questioning whether the vice president should be on the ticket. i know what i think that's about. i want to know what you think that's about. >> i think it's about a number of things. i think vice presidents are either never thought about or they are an afterthought and it's a tough position to be in no matter who you are. i also think that she is a first. she is the first woman. she's the first woman of color. she's the first daughter of immigrants. you can go on down the list. there will definitely be a lot more scrutiny than as usual for vice president who i dare say most people couldn't even name in many of the administrations

going back to the beginning. honestly, again, i think she's done a much better job than she gets credit for. i think she has proven to be a good partner for the president. this is a decision that belongs to the president, whoever the president is. i remember when i chose tim kaine to be my running mate. he had been a successful governor. he had been a successful senator. i thought, here is somebody who could literally step into the job. to me it's a very important criteria. who also, you know, had great reputations as a colleague working with people. some people said he's not this or that he was my choice. at the end of the process, it's the presidents choice. i think that he made a good choice. >> vladimir putin, your friend in mine, he has intervened in the elections in the past.

it's not something, as you experienced firsthand, it's not something we talk about a lot. do you fear that is something that could be happening for 2024? should we be talking about more? >> i think we should be talking about it more. i don't think despite all of the deniers, there's any doubt that he interfered in our election. or that he has interfered in many ways in the internal affairs of other countries, funding political parties and political candidates and buying off government officials in different places and that's his opus. it is opus operandi, in the sense that he hates democracy. he particularly hates the west and he especially hates us. he has determined that he can do two things simultaneously. he can try to continue to damage and divide us internally. he's quite good at it.

sadly, he has a lot of apologists and enablers in our own country. people who either don't see the danger or they dismiss it out of hand. they may be agree with some of the positions he's taken on certain things including his barbaric invasion of ukraine. dividing us and then trying to seize territory in such a brutal way to try to expand his reach. to restore the russian empire, if not of the former soviet union, that is who he is. i said that for years. part of the reason he worked so hard against me is because he didn't think that he wanted me in the white house. we are where we are, part of the challenge to continue to explain to the american public that the kind of leader putin's, this authoritarian dictator who

literally kills his opposition, kills journalists, poisons people who disagree with him. invades other countries, interferes with elections, that's part of the alternative. we have to rejected in this election. we have to reject authoritarianism. we have to reject a kind of creeping fascism almost a people who are ready to turn over their thinking and votes to want to be dictators. we can't allow that to proceed. it's fair to say that you have a tough job. you have to talk about what's happening in the news and you have to keep peoples eyes on what's right behind the horizon. i fear that the russians have proved to be adept at interfering. if he has a chance, he will do it again. >> another person who skin you've gotten under is donald

trump. who is facing indictments as we know. he recently said it would be unlikely he would try to pardon himself. >> i don't believe him on anything. why would i believe him on that? anything why >> i'm not the only person who's noticed this. he gauges and white psychologist called projection. whenever he accuses somebody else of doing something, it's guaranteed he's doing at himself or he's done it. whenever he denies thinking about doing something or doing it it's almost guaranteed he is thinking about it or is already done it. >> before law hugo's been a date set for the impeachment hearings. i'm going to put it in quote for president biden. there is disagreement in the party and how to deal with it. there is no proof. they're in pursuit of a reason. what should they be doing? >> first of all, i don't know

how they can proceed with an impeachment if they haven't had a vote. maybe i missed it because i'm so busy here at c gia -- >> you've been inspired. >> i'm trying to be positive and cannabis solutions to problems, which is what i like to think about. i don't know how they're basically blowing off the process. there is no there. in fact, it seems layers no there. the speaker of the house is too weak to stand up against the most rabid block of his members who don't care what the truth and facts are. they just want to be able to grandstand and try to cause president biden problems. it's not a real threat. it's a terrible bother. more than that, it is a real confession by the republican party. they have no agenda.

they have no interest in trying to bring people together to solve problems. i said for years, because i'm in the senate, when i voted for immigration reform as a majority of the senate, george w. bush said he would sign it. the house wouldn't take it up. they don't want to solution. they want a political problem. they can try to use it for their own benefit. that's what this is, keeping the base, whoever that is, some parts of our country all riled up while they make up stuff that has no basis in fact. it is no way to run a great country. the only way we will get through this, jen, is by defeating them. people say to me all the time, what can we? do i say, well, you can vote. what else? that's the most important thing. that's it. get up there and vote. you vote for people who actually want to get things done and don't traffic in lies and falsehoods and featured a divisiveness. that's what you can do to help the country. >> get out there and vote.

some pretty good advice there from secretary clinton in a wide ranging interview. as rupert murdoch sets aside, offer some thoughts on the culture of division he's created and what is done for the country. brian stelter has spent a lot of time digging into fox news and discusses what the network's future looks like. ks like. >> here's what's happening, a press conference in new jersey making his first public comments it's indictment on barbara bribery charges. sources tell nbc news he does not intend to resign despite bipartisan calls for him to do so. nasa has successfully bought a chunk of asteroid to earth. it landed in the utah desert including the first mission. more inside with jen psaki after the spray. e spray.

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the right-wing ecosystem in this country without talking about rupert murdoch. he announced this week he's retiring from his role of chairman of fox and news corp. even if he never set foot in his office again, he removes himself entirely, by, the way i'm very skeptical of it, he's created this right-wing media ecosystem that will keep functioning long after his departure. over the heirs, murdaugh's core objective has been to make americans fearful of a constant shifting anomie. the other. sometimes the other is someone who does it look like the people in your community. sometimes the other is someone who dresses differently from the expected norm. sometimes the other is someone with a different religion or sexual orientation. or gender identity. murdaugh has known at that fear cells, particularly fear of specific types of people who don't fit the mold of the heterosexual white christian american. it's a cynical but clearly profitable strategy for him for over two decades.

it starts with the war on terror and the coverage of the iraq war. day after day, anchors and hosts like bill o'reilly, remember that guy, singled out muslims with aspersions and innuendo. >> not all muslims are terrace. all terrorists are muslim. >> it's time to have a muslim checkpoint line and americas airports. and have muslims be scrutinized. >> you are muslim, why do you write a book about the founder of christiane it? a >> dramatic magellan invasion. catholics write letters and muslims stab you with letter openers. >> there is no question there is a muslim problem in the world. >> so, if it wasn't clear, there i think it was pretty clear, they are trying to tell you that you should be afraid of all muslims. that fearmongering against the other laid the groundwork for fox to tear down the country's first black president, i was there, with conspiracy theories

about his birthplace and his patriotism and his religion. >> the administration, through all the appeasement and apologizing answers to the quran for us and the constitution second. >> a fist bump, a pound, a terrorist fist jab? >> this guy should go back to burning whatever day 80 he worshipped. it's not jesus. >> eddie americans including this one believe the emotional attachment to brock obama of the -- has hurt the usa. >> so, to recap. if they would have you believe that muslims are likely to be terrorists, and they are calling obama a secret muslim it doesn't take much to connect the dots there. be afraid of muslims and the president and don't forget, be afraid of the enemy south of the border. >> our elected officials have allowed our country to be invaded. yeah, i'm gonna say, it

invaded. overrun by millions of people who are gaming the system by fraudulently claiming asylum. >> an invasion of our country. >> some people take objection, they called an invasion, i don't know what else to call it. >> an unrelenting stream of immigration. why? joe biden just said it. to change the racial mix of the country. that is the reason. >> that brings us to mexico. it is time for all of us to stop going there. >> we have a moral obligation to -- even makes our own country poorer and dirtier and more divided. >> over the years, this list of enemies, the sorts of people american should be very afraid of got very long. so, it's no wonder that murdochs audience was so receptive to the extreme rhetoric of donald trump when he came on the scene. >> i think islam hates us. >> when mexico sends its people, they are not sending their best. they are bringing drugs, they

are bringing crime. -- women are raped at levels which no one has ever seen before. >> i.s.i.s. is honoring president obama. he is the founder of i.s.i.s.. he's the founder of i.s.i.s.. >> the founder of i.s.i.s.. it turns out it takes a whole big village of murdaugh's executives and angers to lay the groundwork for the maga movement. fox news is so much bigger than just one person. we've seen it over and over. bill o'reilly came and went, roger ailes came and went. tucker is gone. and now murdaugh is stepping aside. it's hard to imagine that fox is pumping fear of the other into the homes of millions of americans will change anytime soon. they could put the genie back in the bottle if they wanted to. no one has done more reporting on fox news and my next guest. that's coming up after a quick break. ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪

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>> so, as we digest about the departure of murdaugh in the future fox news. there's really no one better to talk to them brian salter special correspondent vanity fair and the author of network of lies. the uppercut saga fox news donald trump in the battle for american democracy brian first thank you so much for taking the time i don't know many people that have spent the time thinking about fox and the whole journey over the last several years. so thank you. i want to start with what this means. what does his retirement actually look like. is he never coming back into the office. you kind of alluded to this not being the season finale. . >> as you go through a lot of talent on aspirin but i think it's important to study the right-wing media machine. for the recent described before the break. it's vital to understanding how the republican party has --

it's so corrupted and broken. it's a large part because of the incentives of these television networks. soon it comes to murdaugh he was moving towards this moment for several years. especially during the pandemic you could see him letting go on being less of a leader than before. i think people view foxes a leader of the republican party. gop thinks fox in charge but actually fox is not in charge. they're not actually leading anywhere and that's why there's so much dysfunction in chaos. it's a lack of leadership. so i think his announcement confirms and cement what was already happening. i think it indicates that they'll be less leadership. the only thing left scarier than a robot murder fox. is the fox 101 is in charge at all. >> you've also said loughlin is taking his place. he is more conservative. what does that mean and what impact will that have? >> and the rare moments where a spoken out publicly for example in a speech where he cried the evils of wokeness in the evils

of the 16 19 project for the new york times. we get the sense that he both shares his father conservative values. but is more line with the movement on this where the party is today. more in line with this idea of trumpism. we know for example an election night 2020 he was rooting for trump to win while his father has been very critical of trump. so whether that reflects in the air or not i think it's gonna be remains to be seen. but we should not explain any change in the editorial tone or strategy. >> you just alluded to rupert murdoch's evolving view of trump. which i know from reading your coverage. but i don't think a lot of people know about that. tell us about his evolving views and what has happened over the last couple of years with fox in the editorial strategies that relate to trump. >> right rupert simply was not impressed by trump during the presidency. during this four years from trump is in the white house they were supporting by the

beginning that by 2020 they barely spoken only had two phone calls. they have not spoken since. so report has given up on trump he doesn't want to see him back in the white house. as a source said to me from networks of lives report hate trump but he is resigned to trump being the nominee again. >> in other words he doesn't get that much power anymore. a 40 goes wrong desantis but rupert has resigned to trumping the nominee and that speaks volumes about how much he has lost control of the thing he created. fox news is still the beating heart of the gop but it's having to follow trump around and take orders from trump essentially. you mentioned this earlier but you said that the audience programs fox. what does that mean exactly in terms of an editorial meeting at fox. how does the audience program what we see on there. >> i'm giving examples from 2020. i studied this for the dominion lawsuit. the weekend that biden won the election he added that editorial that said get rid of

tv. rudy is hurting you donald trump. of course the next day he was on fox news. he was lying about dominion leading to that defamation case. at the kind of thing that shows the audience is in charge and not rupert or laughlin. now will that change the future? maybe maybe they will show more spine i think we saw that earlier this year at the dominion settlement. they might step up and be more involved but so far has been report loughlin and a lack of leadership has been the story. the other wildcard as what happens that rupert dies. >> some day he will passed away and there will be a power struggle. the more liberal senate has a vision for something tethered to reality. all that is possible down the line but none of it seems imminent. >> more of a succession plot line that we've all been watching. >> there's a debate coming up this week in a couple of days. brian what are you watching for with that, given the host of the debate?

fox is leading the debate for the second time. it speaks the republican party's relationship. there's a question about substance will he help drag the party back to more policy based reality based post. the and they can ask what ufos again. the questions are telling even more the answer sometimes. it shows for fox thinks the party is and maybe where it wants the party to be. . >> rand thank you so much for your time today. i'm back with some exciting news after this quick break we'll be right back.

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case you have on to show's official expanding to prime time. inside with jen psaki will now at monday night they pm right before rachael maddow starting tomorrow. i have to say i could not be more excited we have a show we're getting ready for tomorrow night's debut. nancy pelosi is gonna join me here at set to talk about the chaos in the house the looming government shutdown. i've a feeling she's gonna have some thoughts with everything going on across the aisle and how speaker market is these

handling it all. no shortage of news to cover that's tomorrow night, eight pm on msnbc. it's not going anywhere, sundays at noon eastern. eight pm eastern, every week. that does it for me today. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok and instagram. tune in tomorrow night at eight pm. it's as a podcast for free and we will see you tomorrow. stay right where you are because there is much more news coming right up. >> tonight on a very special to our addition. clarence thomas is now being implicated and they play to play scandal. calls for his were crucial and for his resignation. i'll speak live with some really and then top