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>> he said we have to kill the narrative that the vice president is making all the decisions. we need to establish the narrative that, you know, that the president is still in charge and that things are steady or stable. >> joint chief chairman mark milley in his interview with the january 6th committee talking about comments made to him by mark meadows. now mark milley is the target of deranged threats from donald trump, who scarily enough could become president again. the uniquely disgraceful defendants. how trump's actions are forcing judges to take extraordinary measures to preserve the justice system and protect the lives of jurors. plus rupert murdoch says he retiring but he's leaving behind

a trail of destruction. author michael wolff writes about it in his new book and he joins me tonight right here in studio. but we begin tonight with the former president of the united states. he keeps reminding us who he is and what he would do to this country if he were to return to the white house. today while in south carolina, the prolific liar's campaign lied again after trump talked about buying a gun. >> that's a glock. a glock actually did that and these are actually great sellers. >> you sell it like in the picture? >> we do. it comes exactly like this from glock. >> i got to buy one. >> sir, sir, you own this one. >> ha, ha, ha, his campaign informed the media that he had, in fact, purchased the gun,

which is technically illegal given his felony indictment. i guess they only pursue those crimes if your name starts with hunter and ends with biden. the trump campaign informed the media he actually, in fact, did not buy a gun. no surprise there. because lying is donald trump's safe space. he's lied about classified documents, lied about e. jean carroll. now he is set to address a handful of maga union workers later this week, claiming he's always had union workers' backs. when he says that, he'll be lying again because his administration did the exact opposite when he was president. the trump administration made it harder for small unions to organize, weakened bargaining rights and stripped protections against anti-union measures.

those are the actual facts. meanwhile, joe biden will be hitting the picket lines tomorrow in detroit and we'll have coverage of that on tomorrow's show. trump, who earlier today told supporters that jeb bush, who was florida governor, not president of the united states, started the iraq war. yeah. he's not only a liar, he is clearly unwell. he spent the weekend firing off unhinged rants, essentially calling for the execution of outgoing joint chiefs chairman and general mark milley. on his pretend twitter, the four times impeached former president said that it was an act so egregious that in times gone by the punishment would have been death. adding "to be continued."

for the record, that call was specifically authorized by trump administration officials. but just stop and think about that for a moment. the former president of the united states openly suggested that a decorated u.s. general should maybe be killed for making a phone call to protect his president from a mad democracy. today one of trump's allies and january 6th co-collaborators, congressman paul gosar of arizona not only echoed those calls but made them even more specific. he quote, "in a better sty, quislings like the strange sodom-promoting general milley would be hung hung." these calls are not innocent

words made in a vacuum. we have already seen what happens when trump speaks. all you have to do is watch video from the assault on our capitol. there is a term for this type of incitement, stochastic following. the likelihood is strong that some number of followers will take those words literally. and trump didn't stop there. he continued his deranged rants calling nbc and specifically this network, msnbc, an enemy of the people worthy of investigation and prosecution for treason. now, the rest of the media can lead with questions about biden's age, but don't you think it's a little more consequential to ask the american people if they support threats of violence against an army general and

calls to retaliate against the media, maybe violently? sadly, this country has become so numb towards trump and his party's openly authoritarian threats that he doesn't even have to hide what he wants do in a second term. aside from threats against general millie and those who work at this network, trump has plans to bomb mexico, an act of war, by the way, plus firing hundreds of thousands of career civil servants who refuse to do whatever he wants, herding homeless people into camps, cutting funding to schools that teach critical race theory and gender ideology, which isn't actually a thing in public schools, reinstating muslim ban to expand to to include communist, marxists and socialists, watch out france, germany, italy, and he would ban funds for gender care and defend

the fbi. that didn't even include his desire to permanently stay in power. america, is this what you really want? if that's not clear enough, do you believe we should be rewarding a republican party that is bringing this country to its economic knees because trump told them to? do you really think that we should reward people who are paid to govern but who refuse to do their jobs? trump seems to think so. he's telling republicans to shut down the government unless they get, quote, everything, including impeaching joe biden for whatever they think of today. and the very real threat of a shutdown, amid that threat republicans found time to hold a hearing on that this week, biden. perfect. joining me now is steve schmidt, former republican strategist and

founder of the warning podcast and channel. i am going to led you respond to that. donald trump is being very open about what a trump term, which would be apparently a permanent trump term would entail. it does seem in many cases the country and the media seems numb to it. >> i think there's no question that the country and the media is numb to it. the threshold in this moment is very simple. everything that donald trump says should be taken literally and seriously. what he did today was threaten the employees, the journalists at nbc news. what he said more broadly is he's going to shut down the free media in the united states. what he announced today as a candidate for president in 2023 is he's coming after the

american media. he's coming after his political opponents. why is he running for president? he's running for retribution. retribution, according to donald trump, is a philosophy of avenging anybody who is against him. so we are on the edge of an abyss in this country, and it seems that there is a paralysis, a numbness, a total disregard for the clear and present threat. there is something extraordinary happening. the people who are trying to tear down democracy in the country keep telling the rest of the country what it is they plan to do to such a degree that they have announced their plans six months in to 2025 to have taken apart the whole of the federal

government. now, since fdr's time in office, the legislative metric in the united states has been 100 days, not six months. this is a racist code whistle to every white supremacist in the country because it's how long it took adolph hitler to take germany to a complete and total dictatorship that included, by the way, the military swearing an oath of allegiance not to the nation but to the furor. and the military of the institution amongst many in germany that were the last hold outs to this. but once he was in power, they were the first to submit. and what donald trump is signaling to the officer core of the american military, you get in line behind me, the leader, not the idea, not the constitution or i'm coming for you, too.

this is an epically dangerous moment. >> and to make that even more explicit, he has essentially threatened general mark milley with death. and he has signalled to his marx -- marx fanatic fan base that he is going to die. he explicitly issued a threat against him because he knows there will be no recourse and his followers have no problem with that. his party has no problem with it. where is the condemnation from the republican party for donald trump issuing a written threat again general milley? i've heard nothing but silence. >> total silence, as there has been total silence about the threats, about the inintimation

about violence. we know for certain how having watched january 6th that the incitement turns to violence. there is something growing, growling, menacing out there and it is not being confronted. i do want to say this, the democratic party must condemn senator menendez, roll him up in a carpet and proverbaly throw him over the side of the deck. if the race is about, well, both sides are corrupt, it accrues to

trump's benefit. the only way out of this, the only way through this is an appeal to better. the country has been in a profound crisis before. it is a feature of democracies that they awaken late to threats. winston churchill talked about the gathering storm. he talked about the second world war as the unnecessary war. but what is coming is nearing. and when you have a former president so unhinged today, threatening a former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or current chairman about to retire with death, threatening journalists with shutdown and violence and threatening to imprison political opponents, it has to be taken seriously. when you have the entirety of a political party that remains silent, they are complicit with it. i mean, we are at the hour that john kennedy warned about when he said beware the foolish men

who seek power by trying to ride the back of the tiger only to wind up inside it. that's where we are. and so this moment requires an ability to communicate the threat but also optimistically, where are we going as we move away from this. but nobody should be confused at all about how close we are to the edge of the abyss in this country, judging from donald trump's words, he means it. >> he means it and his party means it as well. desantis who was considered one of the alternatives is saying they're going to start, quote, slitting throats if he becomes president from day one and you have rob people from their rights to vote.

i want to talk about how this happens. by the way, we are going to have the democratic named opponent to senator menendez on later in the show because i think you're right about him. how this happens, steve, is not a one on one necessarily between biden and trump. trump has already proven he's a loser, a multiple times loser when he and his versions of him run in the last couple of years elections. robert f. kennedy jr. has had now conversations with the libertarian party about maybe, maybe, maybe leaving the democratic primary and trying to run as a libertarian. you've got all of these third-party candidates out there floating around, cornel west and the way this could happen is that you have four people on the ballot and you do have a critical mass of americans who either through boredom or disinterest in democracy don't want to elect a normal

president. how concerned are you that these third party potential candidates, some conspiracy theorists, like mr. kennedy, could actually put trump back in office? >> well, at the end of the day there's a reality about american democracy, which is this -- if you're constitutionally qualified and over 35 years old and you want to run for office, you can run for office. the democratic party as an institution doesn't get a vote on it, the republican party doesn't get a vote on it. life isn't fair. political campaigns aren't fair. some people get to run downhill, other people have to run way uphill. here's the deal, all right. if there's three candidates on the ballot, five candidates on the ballot, cornell west is on the ballot, munchin is on the

ballot, what it does at a basic level, it expands the electoral maps. bigger race, more complicated but you have to win the game as presented to you and that's the challenge for the democrats and the president on this. >> indeed, indeed. we're going to keep talking about this. always valuable to have your voice on this show. >> and coming up, donald trump, the risks that entails for his attorneys and our democracy and justice system next. y and justice system next. growing up, every me i'd get out of the shower, i would itch. my first experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. if you'd have told me three years ago that i would own my own business and be expanding into a separate building,

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ramaswamy. earlier this evening there was a big development in the georgia election case. fulton county judge scott mcafee ruled that no information about the jurors for the racketeering case against donald trump will be known to the jury. that mean they will be prohibited from recording, photographing or identifying jurors in any way that might identify who they are, where they live or other details about them. the rules come of fears of politically motivated violence.

it remains an issue in special counsel's case as well. trump sought a gag order, contending his disparaging and inflammatory attacks have spurred threats against witnesses and threatened the court process. today was trump's deadline to respond to that gag order request from jack smith. joining me now is maya wiley and former assistant u.s. attorney and doug jones, former senator from alabama, a distinguished senior fellow. it says something that it is necessary to hide the identities of the jurors. i remember in the e.j. carroll case the judge said never say who you are because donald trump is a known threatener of individual and he has known violent supporters. >> sadly, we know that from the grand jury proceeding in fulton

county when grand jurors started feeling threatened because they were getting threats after their identities were revealed. so they already had direct knowledge and experience of the fact that they had to protect jurors from this process. and to your point, you know, we already know donald trump explicitly called out remember, shea moss and ruby friedman, two public servants who were simply counting ballots and that false information led to them to have racist attacks of intimidation and have to call 911. we heard the testimony in the january 6th hearings how that impacted their lives. there's nothing that if fulton county regular, ordinary citizens haven't encountered. >> it had to be terrifying to

testify against members of the klan where klans men were blowing up people, and murdering people. if you're a witness in one of those cases, just pointing out to lead to death threats against you, you could have to leave town. what do you make of the sense that donald trump is no different of someone like that in terms of what he can inspire or a mob boss, testifying against a member of the mafia? >> joy, what's ironic is i don't think donald trump has to say anything anymore and still will incite people to do those things. i mean, there are people calling members of congress every day threatening their lives, talking about things. i don't think he has to say a word at this point. and, you know, this is not unusual. to be honest with you, it's not unusual to have an anonymous jury. we did an anonymous jury in 2001

and 2002 in the 16th street church bombing cases. white supremacists, klansmen -- >> we are hoping zoom will let our guest be great. we're going to try to get his zoom fixed. but that's a great point. i think this is where he was going is that it's not necessarily that the defendants would do it but that there is a whole mentality among klan supporters, which, by the way, weren't just the guy out in the field somewhere. it was lawyers and doctors and people who work with high political class who just sympathize with it. that's what donald trump has. he has a cult. it doesn't reach just to the lower ends of the economic spectrum, it reaches way up high as well. >> this goes back to your segment on sko tasic terrorism, this smogs that you have a sufficient belief system in society that itself is easily

triggered. i think the sad thing here is while i completely agree with senator jones' point that donald trump doesn't have to say anything but he still does. >> he's still doing it. >> he's doing it all the time. >> it's why jack smith in his own order that he's asking the judge to approve is saying not on to gag donald trump, but don't let him have surrogates. don't let him have folks going out and speaking because they're in his camp, whether they're directly engaged in his camp or allies who can be deployed the things that you might be able to gag him against saying. this is the danger. there's nothing theoretical about this point that's in the ether. we were talking about the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. and the rabbi and holocaust survivors said and it still

rings in my ears, and today is a day of atonement, an important high day for the jewish community. he said standing up for civil rights, he said the problem isn't hatred, it's silence and that's what terrifies him. i think that's the point, our numbness to the fact that this is now prevalent and we can get individual actors very simply and easily triggered into actually going, say, threatening to kill joe biden in utah or, frankly, a judge. those are threats that are real. >> that are very real. we just now got doug jones back. i want to let you finish your thoughts. we did just pass the 16th street bombing anniversary just passed a week ago. but go ahead, please, doug -- senator jones. >> i apologize for the internet here. we have anonymous jurors in that case. it was over 20 years ago. everything went well. the trial went off without a

hitch. >> technology is a lie. technology is a lie. with the internet, it always fails you when you really need it. can we do it one more time? should we try it again? can we get him back? yeah. well, you know, wifi, it's the scourge, it is the scourge of our existence. you need it, yet it fails so often. alabama, you made a huge mistake because now you have a guy who is blocking military promotions. well done, alabama. former senator doug jones, thank you. coming up, as rupert murdoch retires from fox after damaging american democracy than we can even count, we talk about the end of fox news and the murdoch dynasty. sounds juicy. stay right there. sounds juicy stay right there

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in america but to much of the world thanks to his massive empire, which views fascism and brings it right into the veins of europe and the united states. his crown jewel has been with fox and with them the american political landscape with a steady diet of propaganda. he announced he'd be stepping down from the boards of fox and news corp, leaving his son as the sole executive in charge. it's especially clear at fox where there is no former hate they have failed to monetize, covid denial, and the big lie, which undermined our democracy, donald trump's lie which threatened the 2020 election,

which resulted in $787 million in settlements, and how it led to the firing of tucker carlson. it digs into his empire and his enabling of the monster he cannot control, donald trump. and joining me is the author. explain the title. do you really think this is an empire that can come end? >> in the short term. last week when rupert murdoch stepped down, that was -- it's not even the first shoe, it is just along the way of what's happening here. and for actually many reasons but let's go to the most glaring one, this is a company that rests on the shoulders of one man and one man alone.

he is the decision-maker, all of the decisions. and he's 92 years old. and without him, and that will shortly come to pass, then technically the company passes to control of his four children, some who are not speaking to him, others who are not speaking to others of their siblings, a group that can't possibly agree on the direction of this company. so in that event, what happens? um, well, probably -- >> not good things. >> probably the company gets sold, it transitions into something else. but the point is it can't last. >> it is succession. you admit that in the book, it is real life succession. you are perhaps the most prolific biographer of rupert murdoch. you've known him for a very long

time. he let you in. >> i spent a literal year with him. him, his executives, his family. i've met his mother. >> and rode around with her in a golf cart, which is a great story. then i will ask you, i think you you are uniquely in a position to answer this question. what does he want? it seems from the outside looking in that what he wants is to destroy democracy, wreck american democracy specifically and use fox as a vehicle for specific political desires, republican outcomes that he wants to win an election. >> okay, that's not what he wants. as a matter of fact, and part of the irony here, kind of for rupert murdoch a cruel irony, is he was never very interested in fox. rupert is a newspaper man. that's what he does, that's where his attention is. he funded the creation of fox in 1996 actually sort of as an act

of revenge. he tried to buy cnn, they wouldn't sell it to him so he said i'll build my own. but he's not a television guy, not interested in television, doesn't watch television. so he hired roger ales and roger ales created fox, built fox, led fox for most of its 25 years. and it was ales who created this. and ales was thrown out in 2016 because of a range of sexual harassment charges, and suddenly rupert kind of found himself in charge and couldn't control this. >> yeah. >> and, you know, another kind of irony beyond proportion is that fox elects donald trump president. >> absolutely.

>> there is no trump presidency without fox. but rupert murdoch hates donald trump, detests him, wishes him -- literally wishes him dead. so here he is in the last years of his life looking face to face with this reality and this legacy. so not that he doesn't deserve the tragedy, but it is kind of a tragedy. >> i mean, him buying "the wall street journal" was his peak moment. but in the end, as you said, he created this monster. they can't control it. >> he certainly let it go. and the reason he let it go, and let's not mince our words, it made an enormous amount of money. >> that's it. that's it. >> probably more money than any news operation has ever made. >> absolutely. >> so between that if you had to say trump or the money, rupert takes the money. >> he takes the money.

closing question. lachlan murdoch. how do things change with him on board? from what you say, he can't drive the ship the same as his father did. >> rupert holds the power of the board, he holds the power to appoint the ceo, and he's a meddlesome guy. so i would suspect poor lachlan is in the same old position he's always been, under his father's thumb. >> this is a fascinating book. it's not summer but it's like a summer read and your books are always like that. thank you for coming down. i appreciate you. coming up, new jersey senator menendez.

and congressman kim is vowing to run against him and he joins me next. run against him and he joi next

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i recognize this will be the biggest fight yet, but as i have stated throughout this whole process, i firmly believe that when all the facts are presented, not only will i be exonerated but i still will be the new jersey senior senator. >> new jersey senator bob

menendez asserting his innocence today saying he is not resigning. even as a growing number of democrats are calling on him to do so. since the indictment was unsealed on friday, several prominent new jersey officials, members of congress and at least two senators from his own party have said menendez should, in fact, step down. well, one republican congressman is actually speaking out in his defense. >> reporter: do you think senator menendez should resign? >> i don't have an opinion on that. >> reporter: why not? >> because i think due process is important and i think he has a right to defend himself. he's innocent until proven guilty. when did we walk away from the fabric of our constitution that everybody has a presumption of innocence before anything else? why should he resign? >> nevertheless, menendez is also facing a democratic challenger in next year's primary. congressman andy kim, who announced his bid for senate

over the weekend, writing on the platform formerly known as twitter, that this is not something he expected to do but new jersey deserves better, we cannot compromise our integrity, unquote. joining me is representative andy kim from new jersey. thank you for being here. i think people know you mostly from after the january 6th insurrection. you were one of the guys out there cleaning up, that you were out there trying to help those workers there that were forced to clean up the mess left by maga supporters. you are back now running against menendez. why do you make of the fact that he is defiantly refusing to step aside? >> i think that's something we've seen. if you back someone into a corner, when they realize that they don't have anything else to stand on, you know, they just really kind of dig in. we've seen that from him before. look, that's exactly why i'm stepping up here. this is something that honestly reminds me of six years ago when

i first decided to run for congress. i'm somebody that used to be in diplomacy, i was a career government official. i never thought about running for office, running for congress. but i was so concerned at that time just about what the trump administration was doing, about the health care repeal bill, my own congressman that was, you know, that was leading the charge on that, on gutting preexisting protections. i actually started that campaign on a tweet that i just sent out, you know, on my own. i think i only had like six followers at the time. but this is one of those moments. this is one of those moments where you have to decide what you're going to do, and we see what senator menendez is going to do.

a lot of people across new jersey, both your leaders as well as across the nation. there are everyone. everyone is just, like this is crazy. gold bars, money just shoved into pockets. this is, this, is not even your average day. the american people are numb to this level of corruption, but this is a whole another level. >> this is an important, point because democrats, there is a taste level in a standard level of what democratic voters demand. democratic voters can be very exhausting and wanting a certain amount of rectitude, whereas republican voters in many cases, they will take trump who's hiding that classified documents in the shower. their final. that democratic voters are a little bit more choosy. have you, do you think that is it important to place mr.

menendez as he goes through his run? his interest in until proven, guilty but this is his second corruption trial. he just completed, one he got out with a hung jury. now he's back with another case. is this in part about the fact that you have donald, trump who is a multiple times indicted 92 count potential felon running for president, and democrats needing to present a different image quickly country? >> that's exactly right, when i first, it was a destructive trump. one from one my district in 2016 until in 2020. i was able to prevent that. even in 2020, when trump was on the ballot with me, he won, and i want. what i learned from that press -- is that we live in the time of the greatest amount of distrust in government in modern history. people are so sick and tired of, this and i've been saying this line that the opposite of -- apathy is the withdrawal. that's what we have to guard against. what i heard from people over

the course of the last few, days people are just like oh, losing that faith. people are losing their trust. we have to do this. there is another very practical reason which is the senate majority is razor-thin. if senator menendez is the nominee for the democratic party, the democrats are going to lose the seat in the senate. just based off what we saw, so it's so important that we hold on to this. this should not be in play. we have enough to worry about when it comes to the senate in 2024. >> are you having the conversations about the potential ramifications of that? i think the democrats don't talk about this enough, a republican controlled senate it means -- has promised that's coming. you've got mike pence vowing to make that happen. you've got tim scott all saying yes, we're going to do a national abortion ban. you can imagine, no reform to the supreme court, you can go on and. on are there specific issues that you are talking about beyond the potential corruption of mr. menendez that you think

are important that the senate needs to remain in democratic hands? >> absolutely, like i said, i still ran for office because of the effort to get health care in this country. the pre-existing condition, ban. i have to, kids i've got a six, -year-old an eight, -year-old and i just think about it in terms of this question of what kind of america are markets gonna grow up in? this is a very personal question. i am not a politician. this is not something i -- i am a dad worried about the future of my kids, and their generation. this is one of those defining moments, the idea that yes, this is my own senator. his constituent. i am worried about my own family. we see that this can't, stand so we're right, health care, abortion ban, climate change issues. the progress we tried to make on that front, these are the type of things that are very much at stake right now. >> what best of luck, and you can keep please come back and give us some updates on the progress of your campaign. thank you.

up next, disturbing developments in the incarceration of russian opposition leader, and friend of the show -- still with us. >> still with us. >> my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. (how do you feel about that?) pretty sad. i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. (we set up the patriotic kenny foundation) (to give mobility scooters to veterans.) it has changed my life tremendously. (none of this would've happened without tiktok.)

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what's happening in russia involving a friend of the show. jailed opposition politician vladimir power moore is -- he serving a 25-year prison sentence for speaking out against vladimir putin, it is invasion of ukraine. was convicted of treason in april. attorneys say that he's now been transported to a maximum security prison in siberia where upon arrival, he was placed in a quote, punishment cell.

a tiny concrete cell prisoners are held in isolation. his attorney called the move warrior, because of commerce gesture to treating health. a tragic development for a fighter for human rights and democracy. we will continue to monitor the situation. >> that is tonight's, rideout but don't go anywhere. it is a big night for msnbc. up, next -- speaks walla walla speaker, emerita pelosi, during the primetime debut of inside with jen psaki. you can now watch it every monday night at eight pm eastern, in addition to sunday's at noon. then stay tuned for the rachel maddow show, at nine pm eastern tonight, rachel maddow sits down with former white house aide, cassidy hutchinson. this is for her first live interview since serving as a key witness in the january 6th hearings. you do not want to, miss it i know you. won't it starts right now. >> what's it's going to be a hell of a wake, we are staring down a republican debates, and an