and i think it's all 100 percent true. and i hope things are going. >> touchdown, chiefs? >> following sunday's chiefs, when coach andy reid joked about the pair. >> i set them up. >> and quarterback patrick mahomes said the team knew the swifties were watching. >> did you feel the pressure, patrick? >> i felt a little bit of pressure. and, so i knew i had to give it to him. i think he wanted to get things just as much as i nted him to. >> we are already seeing the taylor swift effect in action and you know i love talking about the money so here you have. it travis travis kelce jersey, sales have skyrocketed nearly 400% after yesterday's game. , and of all people, new england patriots coach who known for being very historic shared his thoughts on the dating rumor. telling that travis kelce has a lot of big catches in his career. but this may be the biggest. well, we could not have said it any better coach. and, on that pretty awesome

note, man, the nfl just could not get hotter right now. i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow thanks for you at home for joining me this hour. i'm a little nervous to my two. i have to say, this is a big night. let me just start right in. this is who is going to be our guest tonight. and this is from page one 84 of the book. on the evening of december 18th, mark meadows, my boss, chief of staff returned from eating at the oval office and abruptly asked if i could tell his detail he wanted to go home. as if there was an emergency there. this detail quickly prepared islam, on the left campus without further explanation. shortly after mark's departure, i walk down to visit with molly and get a sense of the

presidents evening plans. usually if mark went home before the president went to the residents, i would stay at my desk in case the president needed anything from mark or me. but since marquette left early with such confidence i thought perhaps the president was wrapping up for the evening and i would get to go home early to. when i walked into the outer oval, i saw that the president was meeting with general mike flynn, the former national security adviser who had pled guilty to lying to the fbi about its involvement with russian officials, cutting a cooperation deal and special counsel robert mueller's inquiry into interference in the 2016 election. three weeks before today's meeting, on november 25th, trump had issued flynn a presidential pardon. why is mike flynn here, i asked molly. i'm not sure, molly. said then added, he's just talking to the president about some things. talking to the president about some things. got it. i went back to my office and settled in. molly came to my office soon after and asked if we had a wine opener. no, i said.

mark doesn't drink, so we do not keep alcoholic paraphernalia in his vicinity. i tried to joke but she did not crack even a slight smile. i side. i know the vice president has. one of his assistant. once we secured the wine opener, we parted ways, back to our respective this. a few minutes later, pat cipollone, platteville bid, eric herschmann and derek lions barreled down the highway past my office door and around the corner towards the oval office. i was imagining various reasons mike flynn could have for being there that had the lawyers in a panic. but then i remembered it was derek lions's last day at the white house. i figured, i was over thinking. it linda probably left, there was maybe a toast for derrick in the oval office to celebrate his tenure at the white house. pat cipollone's top aide and derek fiancée wandered in and asked if i knew what was happening in the oval office. she had dinner plans with the derek and could not get in touch with him. i said, i'm not sure, but a bunch of people are in the

oval. on cue, we both turn toward the sound of raised voices coming from that direction. although the oval office was about a ten second walk from my desk, it was highly unusual to hear any noise coming from. there we could not make our distinct warns of people screaming at each other. newly-called me to come to the -- dance gavino was pouring the last of a bottle of wine into a glass, and the screaming was much louder than i had ever anticipated. i looked into the oval office and saw a larger group. along with the white house lawyers where mike, flynn sydney powell, and patrick byrne, the ceo of overstocked al cohn. how did all these people get inside the building. i could tell the meeting was growing more contentious, so i decided to text tony our nada, the deputy chief of staff. witness still. here and sidney powell, there's a brawl. he responded, oh holy hell. tony immediately called and asked if i knew what they were brawling over.

he had been in the oval office earlier that day and heard the president talk about invoking the insurrection act, or martial law. if that's what they were arguing over, tony said, i needed to get mark meadows back to the white house as soon as possible. eventually i got a hold of mark who seemed reluctant to get them aligned with the president. and i are to them that it sounded like it was a matter of national security. a secret service, seton hall standing outside the oval office came by. the agent, said i don't want to hear all of that. it's really upsetting. i wouldn't recommend going -- the west wing was officially unhinged. hutchinson continued, things seem to be breaking up as people filed out of the oval and walked by my desk. molly told me the president wanted to have dinner in the residence and was planning to reconvene the meeting in the other oval after he finished eating. i, twitter i would stay in case something happened. she wished me luck, and then she left for the night. dance could be no stop pioneers when omen said this is after up. eric coachman walked into marks

office period, pounding his fist on the wall. this can't be ethan happening is said. this is effing insane. pat cipollone looking traumatized, said to, me this is nuts. mark needs to come back. derek lines a, quote, does the chief need more of a reason to come back? here it is? martial law. i mean for god sake we called rudy to come help us do damage control. rudy giuliani, you know it's bad when we call rudy for backup. the chief needs to come back. i continue to call mark. he continued ignoring my calls. so i called one of the secret service agents on this detail. go pass your phone to mark, now. i ordered. seriously? the agent asked? what if he's in bed sleeping? what do you expect me to do? shaken awake? i responded, yes, this is a matter of national security. you need to put me on the phone with him. after a few minutes i have mark on the line. mark, the president's

reconvening the meeting in the yellow oval, rudy is on his way out backup for pat cipollone. rudy for pat cipollone. we are talking about the insurrection act seizing voting machines. i felt my boys begin to sound desperate, please, mark you need to come back here. he said all, right i'm on my way. hutchinson continues. i walked with mark to the residents. and he had asked me to come back at midnight to break up the meeting if it hadn't already ended by. then i heard the president scream. i don't care how you just get it effing done. mark and i exchanged a pained, look and he disappeared into the yellow oval. my hands were sweating as i walked back to my. dusk i had never heard the president sound so desperate before. i want to the residents around 11:55 pm. but the meeting had begun to. and i use my key, to the rose garden to unlock the door to let everyone out. mark extorted rudy to make sure america's mayor didn't wander back to the resident. one hour after the meeting

broke up my watch bust with a trump tweet alert, quote, peter novato releases 36-page report alleging election fraud. more of them sufficient to swing victory to trump, a great report by peter. statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 election. big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there, we'll be wild. while. cassidy hutchinson was the witness who told us all the worst things that we learned about the plot to overthrow the government after former president trump lost reelection. from cassidy hutchinson, we learned that the president was told by his deputy white house chief of staff about the number of weapons and the types of weapons people had brought on the rally site in washington, d.c. on january 6th 2020. from cassidy hutchinson, we learned that the president having been informed about all of these weapons ordered that

the metal detectors be taken down so the armed crowd can be allowed in with their weapons. he then, as planned apparently told the crowd to march on congress. from cassidy hutchinson, we learned that he not only told the crowd at the rally allowed that he would go to congress with them. we also try to do. >> so on surprising that i hadn't gone into the vehicle with bobby. he thought they were going up to the capitol, and that bobby had related to him, we're not, we don't have the assets to do. it's not secure. we're going back to the west wing. the president has very strong, very angry response to that. and tony described it as being irate. the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take it up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir,

we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle. grabbed at the steering wheel and mr. engel grabbed his arm. he, said sir, you need to take your hands off the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing. we are not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle, and mr. wood, and mr. banana recounted the story -- >> we learned from cassidy hutchinson, and that remarkable day of live public testimony that the former president not only tried physically to steer the presidential limousine to congress and in her telling, physically launched at the secret service agent, telling him that the little would not be going there. we learn from her as, well that they acknowledged that they in fact lost the election, but he

didn't have to admit. it we learned from her that when trump was told that the rioters had in fact breached the capitol building, and were surging in towards the members of congress, from both sides he refused to asked the rioters to stand. down the line from cassidy hutchinson that when trump heard that the rioters were calling for the lynching of his vice president who was on the premises, mike pence, we learned from her that he said pence deserve the faith that the rioters weren't doing anything wrong. >> when she gave the testimony she was 25, five years old. and very much alone in the world. and very much without you sources. and i mean, that literally. to the extent that she was flat broke. she had a couple of hundred dollars in her checking account. she had not paid her rent for months, her wife i had been cut off at her apartment. this was a very young woman who had had, yes, a very high-end job at the white house. she was effectively the chief of staff, top staffer to the --

but she was a young woman, who only had government. employment when the trump administration ended, she was alone and very much without resources. and this was a working class, first in her family to go to college. all of the connections, all of the polls she had in life she had developed herself on her own as much as a person can do by the age of 24. >> when she was subpoenaed to testify, she was very much alone. she was unable to afford a lawyer on her own. she reluctantly there forgot one from trump world. she said that that lawyer effectively encouraged her to not tell what she knew. that arrangement lasted for a few of her first depositions until she could no longer live with her so. to finally connected with new council, who would represent her for free and with that, what she felt was potentially conflicted loyalty. and then she told all, she said,

in her new book, before retaining my lawyers, at times i had told less than the whole truth, the congressional committee with investigating the highest national imports. withheld informations about the witness that i have been recounted to me by witnesses. but those -- my conscience was bothering. and i came to the decision, to clarify and extend my testimony. that's how she ended up telling the whole truth. she is further clarifying and extending her testimony in this new book that is out tomorrow. which is called, enough. it contains a lot of new information. it started off taking notes when i started reading the, book thinking that i would want to keep the main points of information on a sheet of,

paper so i could stay focused on what i wanted to talk to her. but i ended up taking tiny scribbled hand written pages of notes. all about what was new here to me. the new information includes information about the bizarre current mishandling of classified information including previously classified information. potentially still classified information. being carried around in the whole foods. that and dropped off with some reporters. there's a strange news story about what they did in the last 15 minutes. that the trump administration existed on inauguration. day something that required him to move with lights and sirens for downtown d.c., to get there before noon where biden would become president and there's no information that is early as, may 2020 the trump, white house made 2020 was already trying out the phrase, stop the steal's messaging the 2020 election and that six months

before the election even happened. and there is new confirmation from cassidy hutchinson, trump was morbidly ill from covid that his life was in danger when he was hospitalized with the virus. but there's confirmation from cassidy hutchinson that it was the former president himself who ordered the firing of the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, jeff burgum mr. bourbon telling us tonight, that before hearing that that's what's in cassidy's hutchinson, spoke hearing that from, us when he called him for comment, he had been aware that his firing had been ordered by the president himself. there are six, count, them six different allegations about various white house men and capitol hill republican men roping or creeping on cassidy hutchinson in this book. although i should mention, the two of the six are both matt gaetz. so it's six, only five different men. and we'll have more on that leading. there's a lot to talk about

here. and i'm sure we're gonna do a big interview. here in the news right, now it looks like the writer strike is finally over. and hollywood, president biden's gonna walk the picket line with the united auto workers tomorrow something no president has ever done before. senator bob menendez now has three of his fellow senate democrats calling for his resignation after his indictment on corruption charges last week. now former house speaker, nancy pelosi is calling for his resignation as well. democrat john fetterman, was the first to call for menendez 's resignation. and, then now -- is also calling on him to resign. senator menendez, said he won't resign. but this is now a boulder that is running downhill at him. it's hard to see how senator menendez stays. still looking at a government shutdown, by the end of the. week there are even aunts that a shutdown might also come with. in the end of the speakership, house republican leader kevin mccarthy, someone with whom cassidy hutchinson was very, very close. we've got the second republican

presidential debate two nights from now with former president donald trump still not planning on showing up despite his lead in the polls. instead, he's making headlines in the last few days for saying this weekend that the chairman of the joint chief of staff should be executed. for treason. and then today, the news that we're watching now should be investigated for treason. and will, be that if he's elected president again. and then this afternoon, he tried to buy a gun. people on their fell in the indictment weren't allowed to have a gun, but that was a real moment today. for cassidy hutchinson, it has been 15 months since her testimony that turned the world on its here. she had spent those 15 months out of, site in part for her own safety. but also to write this. book and also to do three separate interviews with the justice department prosecutors on one with the grand jury in

fulton county. the former president when she served, and at one point adored and to whom she was quite loyal for a very long time has not been indicted in four different jurisdictions on dozens of felony counts. cassidy hutchinson said she found the bravery to stop effectively lying by omission. to stop telling what she actually knew when she first read the story of this man. the man who had basically the same job as hers. under a very different precedent. alexander butterfield had also been effectively chief of staff to the white house chief of staff. under president nixon. sort of a low profile, low name recognition position. but one with accessed a very high level, very sensitive goings on. like cassidy hutchinson he was a royal look public, and loyal to the president, didn't ever want to be anything other than good at his. job and then help that the administration he served the like cassidy hutchinson, alexander butterfield also felt he needed to be honest about what he had seen, and what he knew.

alexander butterfield is how the nation learned there was a taping system during watergate. and cassidy hutchison seeing here, meeting with him during his testimony. and she is how the nation learned, all the worst things we now know about, as she put, it on page 321, quote, an unhinged chief executive. well linda overturn the will of the people and -- in violence on the advice of crazy people. , and for what? to avoid the embarrassment of conceding an election he knew he had lost? she said, quote, that is who he is. and her testimony we also know that is who she is. a paragon of bravery, she has a new book out called enough. comes out tomorrow. she's here tonight for the interview. life stay with us. we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪

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news break. the first rioters have breached the capitol. they're inside. i'm registering the development as pat cipollone and pat philippe in barrel past me and barge into mark's office. the rioters are in the capital, mark, we need to go down and see the president, now. cipollone. insists mark is a statue on the couch. he doesn't want to do anything, that. pat calmly gives mark direction. mark says something needs to be done. people are going to die. and the blood is going to be on your hands. it is getting out of hand. i'm going down there. my eyes are locked on mark. get, up go with pat. mark slowly stands, leading against the arms on the couch and walked silently to my does. and he's clutching his eyeglasses and his fits, his knuckles are wide, he sets his phone on the desk. let me know if jim calls. meaning jim jordan. jim jordan calls minutes later, i've a pen of hope. once, i call go get him. i go to the dining room, is mark in there? i ask the valley? the valley. not i looked through the people

and see the back of the suit. i opened the door to get -- the group is having a heated conversation about the rioters. mark sees me. i pointed the phone screen, or gyms color ideas visible. he comes over to take the phone, prompting the door open with his body as he talks to jim. i took a few steps back says mark takes my place in the doorway. and strange to listen to both conversation. the tv in the oval dining room is blaring. and the president is yelling. what he? saying i can't make it out? i hear him say, hang, repeatedly. hang? hang? what's that about? mark hands's phone back to, me the queue for me to return to my desk. back in my office, my phone notified me of a trump tweet, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should've been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate once which they were asked to previously certify. usa demands the truth. >> hutchinson continues. i'm struggling to process what's happening at mark, pat saponi, pat philbin, and eric

stumble back to the office. i overheard a conversation. suddenly everything makes sense. they are calling for the vice president to be hanged. the president is okay with it. he doesn't want to do anything. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. he thinks, mike is a traitor. this is crazy. we need to do something more. my fullness picking nonstop with emails, texts, signal messages and unanswered calls. mark's phones are to. i'm devoid of emotions, as i consider what i should do. and, then letting what i just heard sink in, i'm gripped with anger and hurt. i snatched my coat, i run out of the office to go to the eisenhower building. i need to check in with mike secret service detail. we need to have a plan in case the worst happens. in case this is the beginning of a coup. that is from cassidy hutchinson's new book which is called enough. which is out tomorrow. miss hutchinson, it's nice to meet you thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me rachel. >> this is the first live interview you've done in the media. it's the second live interview

you've done in life. the first one was [laughter] -- how are you doing? >> i'm doing well. it's a pleasure to be here with you and it's an honor to have this very first live interview. second live interview. the first one, much more consequential than this. one don't worry. i, mean it's been 15 months since that testimony, your life has changed dramatically since then. i said, based on what i read in your book, i didn't ask you about this ahead of time. i, said in my introductory, that a lot of the reasons why people have been heard from, your senior out in the world in the last 15 months is at least in part because of concerns about your security. is that fair? is that still a real life concern for you? >> yes. a very fair assessment. >> are you taking care of yourself in that regard? you don't have to tell me anything. >> no, you're good. there's been this in a lot of ways. this year has finally opened my eyes to the danger that trump actually poses on people in

this situation. and i'm not the only one. and i wish i could say i'd be the last person, but unfortunately i won't and that's what he does to people that he thinks speak out or detract against. him there is more dangerous things about donald trump to. we see time and time again and it shouldn't have to be like this. >> you write about, in the, book repeatedly about your regret for having not supported him. but specifically, for having facilitated some of the political attacks that he launched as president on people that were designed the way he designed them. to hurt people, and in some cases, to expose them to danger. does that give you any insight into why he needs politics to work that way for him? and any inside in how to combat it? >> he gave me an insight into his psyche while i was writing the book. and helping understand my

circumstances with it. and what i've dealt with after i testified and with what that said it helped open my eyes to what he wants from people. he wants to know that he's getting a reaction. he thrives when he has an audience. it could be a negative of the, and it could be an audience that he likes. it could be his base. but what he needs is to hear people reacting to him. and that's when he knows, in his mind, that he's been successful to something. >> is that why you never responded to his attacks? >> i never responded to his attacks only because i don't need to give them oxygen. he's going to say what he's going to say, and he said much worse things about better people than i am. >> i'm kind of sure that you described experiencing to protect mr. trump, i mean some of it was self directed, right? you say at one point, in the, book and it struck me and said that you adored him. i one point. that you were, and, are very

much still a republican. that you believed in what he was trying to do for the country. you wanted to be a good staffer. you wanted him to serve the white house. you wanted him to do right by your colleagues. and that leads to the next presidential project, which is protecting him from all the investigations around january six and everything else. but that pressure, not only came from you it also came from his world. you didn't have financial resources to hire your own lawyer, you didn't have lawyers on the outside that would represent to you for free. you ended up with a trump world lawyer. but what you described was having, not told you to lie. but encouraged you to not tell everything that you knew. >> that pressure is not just a cassidy hutchinson by details. it's a life issue for a lot of people right now. it's a lot of people in multiple jurisdictions deciding how they're gonna respond to a subpoena. what they may testify to in court, and what they're going to do about their legal representation. it's a life issue for a lot of

people right now. and some of them may be watching right now. what would you say to them about how to balance the equities in that kind of a population? >> in my opinion, i don't know if there really is a way to balance the equities. if you have a self interest of being completely forthcoming and truthful in what you are witnessing that could potentially hurt or damage mr. trump. and not even speaking to the issues of legal counsel just as a person knowing what i experienced. and like you, said some of it was self inflicted for me. i did. i knew what i wanted to do. i knew how i felt about the circumstances surrounding january six. but i also was scared to be frank. i was scared at times to make that break. i've seen what happened to some of my former colleagues who had made that. break and how they became the subject of the wrist jewel. and the vile rhetoric that

comes out of mr. trump and his associates when you break with him. if i were to say anything to the people, though that maybe finding themselves in a similar situation to the situations that i find myself in or that they want to make that break, it's possible. we can't, and what i think in my opinion is what's damaging in ways is that isolating the people that come out and then questioning why they did, it is hard to come out. it was hard to find my way out because of what we said. i had financial limitations. and i did have other counsel. but it was also hard coming out on the outside. because i didn't know if i'd be well liked by people. and so i think that, you, know if we can create and foster an environment where people feel have filled and welcome, there is a life on the other side. which one of them is more eye opening, and part of this

experience for me to is that there are good people in this world that want to help. and that are there and that have similar interests that we do. we all want the republic to survive. we should all want the republic to survive. but in the way that it should have the current trajectory i am not confident that he will have it survived. and we'll just encourage them to think about that. >> when you see, that we speak at a moment where mr. trump's dozens apart in his presidential primary. and the tone and the political press about what's happening in the republican presidential primary is that even people who support his competitors are affectedly conceding that he's going to be the nominee republicans to choose him again. even after what happened the last time. and specifically what you are able to tell the country about what it was like inside of the white house. i was struck in the, book not just about what he said about january, six but some of the

other ways that you described what was bad about him as a president. on covid, you said i doubt any politician could've led the country through the pandemic, without making errors of judgment and execution. but of all the people the, world president trump was uniquely and suited to the challenge. he liked empathy, and was stubborn and patient. >> you said he had a restless impulsive personality, and you described his attention span not being up to an average meeting. i noticed that his eyes often wandered the room when the meetings outlasted his attention span. ultimately, you described what happened on january six from him at a minimum, a shocking dereliction of duty. meaning that all of the things that you described, they're having seen him of close our public record now. >> right. >> none of these things are secret. why do you think that your fellow republicans want him more than they want anybody else as their next candidate for the white house?

>> i can't speak to the psyche of, i would, say my fellow republicans because i do not think that we are a part of the same republican party. i still consider myself a republican. i consider myself a republican in the sense of senator mitt romney. and the reagan republican party. i believe that the republican party needs a strong conservative party. and i do not believe that mr. trump is a strong republican. but in this next election cycle, it is, in my opinion, the make-or-break moment for the republican party. now is the time if these politicians, these men and some women that are currently in congress want to make the, break and want to take the stand. they have to do it now. we can't wait any longer for them to do it. i don't know why they're willing to support him. i think it's extremely disappointing. and it is not a hard issue to take. we're talking about a man who, at the very essence of his

being almost destroyed democracy in one day. and he wants to do it again. he wants to run for president to do it again. he's been indicted four times since january 6th. and i would not have a clear conscience and be able to sleep at night if i were a republican in congress that supported donald trump. and i think that if they're not willing to sign with, that then it will be serious danger for the party. >> i'm gonna talk with you about those indictments. i know you spoke about federal prosecutors at the fulton grandeur. you want to ask you about some of the news that you've broken in the book. cortina take a quick break. and we'll be right back. cassidy hutchinson. as our guest, we'll be right back.

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(♪♪) book called. enough it comes out tomorrow. thank you again for being. here and you, right in the books about details of your actions in the january six committee. six interviews with, them plus the life testimony. but then you also say that you met, i believe, three times with justice department personal and prosecutors and went to the fulton county grand. or is that all? >> that's correct. >> do you expect to be called to testify in any of the trump trials? >> i have fully complied with all investigation so far. and i will continue to do so. >> you can talk about what they're gonna testify? >> if, for when i am asked to testify, i will. >> did prosecutors involved in

any of those conversations, or any of those live cases asked to leave certain topics out of the book? >> no. everything that is in the book is also consistent with my transcripts that are on the record with the january six committee. >> everything pertaining to the election fraud. and mr. trump's attempt to overthrow the government to stay in power. all on public record. >> one of the things that you described in some detail in the book is that i don't quite know what to make up it involves your direct boss, mark meadows. i've been describing you at the shorthand. and use this in the, book you say chief of staff, to the chief of staff. you're the top staff to mr.. metals are with them a lot of the time. you definitely know what's going on in his life. you are close to him in the work sense. every day that he's in the office. and yet, there is some mystery that i don't totally understand

as to what he was burning in his fireplace. and to what he was doing with, either classified or previously classified documents related to crossfire hurricane. related to the russia investigation. are you describing what appeared to you to be either mishandling of classified information or mishandling of presidential ruptures, destruction of presidential records, which is not allowed. >> the final days, obviously, was chaotic in a number of ways. i was under the impression and i know there were several of my other colleagues that were under the impression of how classified documents are being handled was not within proper protocol. and, now with saying that i think it speaks to help reckless and careless much of the administration was, not taking classified document protocol seriously, a lot of

the time we have seen that with mr. trump as well. but specific to my experience with mr. meadows, in the final days of the administration i talk about it a lot in the book. to shed light on how chaotic things were. but i can't really speak to what he was. doing i would leave that up to questions from. >> it does feel like there were confrontations in the white house, including those that involved you related to perceived mishandling of sensitive information. i drop the bag on pat cipollone's for. i carried the classified documents back from the reporters mark. i didn't hide my contempt, my words right with sarcasm. mark and cipollone peered into the back and i saw mark swallow hard, patch of me a piercing. look overwhelmed, pat agonized seriously. seriously, we do not have time for this? i was already walking out of his office. he then described mr. meadows at 11:45 a.m. on inauguration day asking the secret service

how quickly they can get to the justice department because he wants to try to declassify something. literally in the last 15 minutes when donald trump as president. >> what was that about? what was he trying to do? >> that was pertinent to crossfire hurricane which for the record at the time i had no idea what crossfire hurricane was. not looking at the bigger picture here, bringing it back to next year's election these people very well could be in power again and do we want people who have already shown that they're willing, and want to overthrow an election? a duly elected president which is the pinnacle of our democracy. do we want to put people like that back in power? do we want to put people back in power that have mishandled, and that have been shown to mishandled the security secrets

that our nation has? that's the question that we need to ask ourselves. >> we've got a statement from a spokesperson, from mr. meadows tonight and sort of just vaguely casting. in most of the statement but then saying much of her claims in this book about mr. meadows are otherwise filled with half true, faulted and purposefully admitting contacts to sell books. mr. meadows, essentially just casting this on your character. and saying that you are making things up in order to make money. you worked so closely with him. for a long time. but he also described in the book but you never really trusted him. and there are several instances do you describe where he flat out lied to you even on close working matters where you should have been on the same side. i should ask him a response for you from that statement and ask you what do you think happened between you and mark meadows? >> i don't think there was anything necessary negative to

happen between me and mark meadows. i was very outspoken after january six, about how i felt about. it mark and i also knew that we were two different people. and that's okay. we would regularly talk about it and we would joke about it that i was more modern that he. was but we did it in large part to gather. >> ideologically moderate. more so than he was. >> the putting that aside in an environment like that that doesn't matter as much. in terms of a statement, i would encourage him to go testify under oath if he thinks that. what is in the book and i have testified under oath which is consistent with what is in the book. he can go testify under oath if you have strong feelings about that. >> were you disappointed that the justice department elected not to prosecute when he ignored the congressional subpoena that you responded to for the january six investigation? >> i'll leave it to mr. meadows,

and his team to respond to. that but what i will say is that i hope that mark is now doing the right thing. >> well, what i define does the right thing which is coming forth an honoring that he worked to protect your country and not your president. and we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna come back and i have something to ask you that keeps me. out and i'm sorry. in advance. i'm used, to it's okay. all right the creepy question is that when we come back -- okay we'll be right back with cassidy hutchinson right after.

joining us once, again is cassidy hutchinson and her book is called enough. it comes out tomorrow. miss hutchinson, one of the claims in your book that receive some attention ahead of publication is an allegation you made that rudy giuliani, effectively groped you. at the trump rally on january six. you said that he reached his hand, under your blazer and

then under your skirt. mr. giuliani spokesperson has called this a disgusting lie against mayor giuliani. he gave us that statement again. but i was struck by the fact that he was not the only one. page 52 of the book he said that john berner of all people look down at my cranberry vodka, and whispered, dark liquor or red wine from milan. and then he tucked on the ends of my here saying and lose the ponytail. he described one man who worked in the white house, mike mckinnon as having a tendency to publicly single out women with crude and demeaning comments. you describe the president and this is not groping, this is not physical but you described him as telling you to add blond highlights to your, which you then went home and did. and you went to the white house the next day. that doesn't happen in normal places, i'm just telling you now. sorry. >> i learned a lot on the outside. >> there's a whole world outside, when guys get fired for doing stuff like that. >> it's unbelievable.

well it shouldn't be unbelievable. >> shouldn't be unbelievable. there's also a couple of instances, involving congress can -- i will, admit most of the contacts here but i will tell you the lines that have kept me up and uncomfortable. he chuckled, and brushed his thumb against my chin. has anyone ever told you you're a national treasure. he described a night at camp david. when he was leaning against the door frame while somebody entered the door to another cabin, that strange partner when kevin mccarthy asked him, he had seen my golf cart parked outside the office with my. kevin and he got up and asked mr. gates what he needed, he explained that he was lost and asked me to escort him to its cabin. i told him to proceed around the circle drive, all the cabins are clearly marked. it's impossible to get loss. he asked me one more time to leave with him. kevin mccarthy then, said quote, get a life math. and shut the door. now mr. gaetz we asked him for

comment on these allegations tonight and he told me, i don't remember either of these offense and based on cassidy's prior fall statement, i doubt that they occurred. i didn't -- when we were both single years ago, we parted amicably and remained friends thereafter, even during president trump's post presidency when he asked me to help her secure housing -- claims i'm sorry that you had to respond to that. but i'm going to ask you. >> i'd love to respond to. that thank you for giving me the option. i will give matt credit. in part of the statement is that we did have an amicable working relationship and we were good friends. at one point and matt gaetz in my opinion is something that i personally do not hold in high regards. in terms of trust. and i do not think that mike gates has the best track record. and condoning his relationship with how he thinks that they

might be. define i would say on behalf of myself we never dated that gaetz. i have much higher standards and men. and matt, is a very unserious politician. we see that today with the ruckus he's calling on capitol hill, and i don't really have much else to say that somebody who is more concerned about a soundbite than actually passing legislation. >> mr. giuliani's remark, in response to your about him, which is graphic and grows. was that this is a disgusting lie against him. and you stand by that statement, did you just push back? >> i stand by my statement, in what i described in the. book and i agree, it was gross. >> cassidy hutchinson, you have been through a lot. particularly as a very young woman who had to do a lot of this on her own. the record that you've given us is much, much, much more complete that anybody else could've given us. it took a lot of bravery to get. there this is been a hard time in your life. but you've been a service to

your country and i hope that good things happen for you. >> thank you rachel. >> congratulations. former white house aide, cassidy hutchinson has a new book, it is called enough. it's all tomorrow. it is full of news. you should read it. we'll be right back.

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on the air, tonight we just got word that these are the qualifying candidates for the republican presidential debate on wednesday night this week. tonight's for, now this is the second overall debate in the republican presidential primary and last time there were eight candidates, this time it will be down to seven. arkansas governor, each hutchinson didn't quite make the cut for this one. and, of, course one other major candidate is not going to be there. but no need to talk about. that cinci won't be there. we're going to bring you live analysis of that debate starting at 11 pm eastern on wednesday night. and i'll be here for, that joined by my colleague joy reid, and nicole wallace, and all of our friends here at msnbc. special coverage, right up to