not be paid until the shut down ended. earlier this week in a press conference, transportation secretary pete buttigieg calling it a quote particularly bad time nor a government shutdown, one of many economic concerns facing this nation as you just pointed out. >> seema mody from cnbc. thank you so much, it's good to have you on the show. that's going to do it for the show this hour. join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday from 1:00 to 3:00. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. the government shuts down in less than three days, and right now in the house of representatives, there's a flurry of action. we're going on hour five of heated debate with long, fiery speeches telling the american public that their country is at

sake. they're not talking about the budget or the millions of americans who will lose paychecks in a government shutdown, including members of the military and air traffic controllers and tsa workers. instead, the house gop is focused on hunter biden, spending this entire thursday morning and afternoon, again, just two days before the government shuts down on saturday to open their impeachment inquiry into his dad, the president. they're looking into hunter biden as well. we ask, is this time well spent. joining us now capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, and "punch bowl news" cofounder and msnbc political contribute jake sherman. there are 52 hours or so before the government shuts down. is there anything else happening that we're not currently watching on television? >> no, not really. there are a couple of things worth noting. number one, the senate is trying its best to cobble together a border security package to ride alongside their short-term

stopgap bill. now, why are they doing that? they're doing that because house republicans say they need border security and a stopgap measure. this is going to be a herculean task, katy. absolutely herculean, to find something that could pass the senate and pass the house. we're not only talking about border money. we're talking about reworking border policy. that's very difficult to do in such a short period of time. so that's what's happening right now in the senate. the house is voting on four spending bills tonight. all of them might go down. they might not be able to pass any of these bills, and then speaker kevin mccarthy will move to pass his own short-term bill tomorrow night or tomorrow, rather. that bill might not pass on its own. so we are in an incredibly perilous position ahead of a government shutdown, which starts saturday night at midnight. this is not far off. this is incredibly close, and i don't see at this point, listen,

this is a fast moving story, anything can change. i don't see at this point any way that congress is going to avert a government shutdown. >> tell us about the meeting this morning about mccarthy, what he is telling his conference and what he's getting into with someone like matt gaetz. >> yeah, quite frankly, there's two things happening, number one, he's trying to tell them to pass the spending bills so they have leverage. that's going to be difficult. they don't want to give him leverage for a host of reasons. matt gaetz suggested that mccarthy was paying people to post nasty comments about him on the internet. mccarthy said, matt, i don't even think about you or pay attention to you. and said i have given $5 million to republicans to protect the majority. what have you done. we expect gaetz will try to boot mccarthy in the next couple of weeks. i think that's going to be a high drama and high wire situation, but the tensions,

katy, in the house republican conference are incredibly high. >> there's so much that needs to get done before saturday. again, millions of people will start losing their paychecks. ali vitali, you got a memo warnembers about what's going to happen next. >>eporter: that's exactly right. that's par for the course. agencies have to provide that guidance to their employees, in large part because agencies are going to have to make a decision about which parts of their work force are furloughed and which parts of their work force are not exempted from this or deemed essentially in some ways. that's going to be one of the decisions that comes once we hit that point saturday night at midnight, as jake said where the shutdown would be triggered. in this memo, though, in this case, at the ssa, the person writing it makes note of the fact that this inconsistency can be stressful for employees, and

frankly for all the reasons we laid out, it's hard to feel optimistic about that. i have not spoken to any member on the republican or democratic side who doesn't think we're going to have a shut down come this weekend. instead, the concern is rather, once they get into a shutdown, how they can maneuver their way out of one. that's still something we're already lacking for plans in this building of how to avoid one. certainly there's no plan for how to get out of one. i think that's the source of a lot of consternation on capitol hill. i will say, as i have been covering the impeachment hearing all day. democrats have consistently reminded of the fact that this impeachment inquiry hearing is going on during critical days and hours when republicans are fighting amongst themselves about how to avoid this shut shutdown. some have count down clocks, white house have consistently reminded us of the hourly and

minimum mark of how a shutdown happens. and ignoring the business of governing to do things for the red meat and their base. >> when you say ssa, i assume you mean the social security administration. president biden in arizona, we're going to go to him in a second. to ken dilanian, if you can quickly tell us, in terms of the impeachment inquiry, have we heard anything regard evidence of wrong doing? >> there has been new evidence. none of it had to do with president biden. as the justice reporter i have been face nated a that career prosecutor investigating hunter biden basically told investigators that joe biden was off limits, that she was not interested in pursuing allegations that hunter biden's influence peddling scheme involved his father, but guess what, that happened during the trump administration. there's no evidence that president biden played any role in that, katy. >> thanks for getting that to us

quickly. we appreciate it. we're going to dip in now to president biden, giving a major speech on democracy in arizona, a place where donald trump and his allies claimed election fraud without any evidence in 2020. he's there to remind them in 2024, democracy is delicate. first he's starting with a little bit about john mccain, his old friend and dedicating a new building to him in arizona. let's listen. >> and he said, god, she's beautiful. i said, yeah, she is, john, and i said go say hi to her. i won't go into more detail, i insisted that they meet. i take credit. i take credit. and i just told your mom. john and i had something in common, we both married way above our station, way above our

station, cindy, madame ambassador, thank you for all you have done, all you do, continue to do, jack and bridget, the entire mccain family and all those who love the mccain family. [ applause ]. >> i didn't see all of you up there. don't jump, don't jump. it's an honor to be with you, a genuine honor, general hobbs, you have done an incredible job, a leader of democracy, and you have always been available when i called, and i hope you have been available as well. ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests [ applause ] in the end, john mccain thought about the beginning. five years ago, as john was dying from brain cancer, john wrote a farewell letter to the nation that he said he served so

well in both war and peace. his words track back centuries to america's founding and then toward a triumphant feature. here's what john wrote, and i quote, we are citizens of the world, the world's greatest republic, a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. americans never quit. they never hide from history. america makes history. and john was right. every other nation in the world has been founded on either grouping by ethnicity, background, we're the most unique nation in the world. we're founded on an idea, the only major nation of the world founded on an idea, an idea. that we are all created equal, endowed by our creator to be able to be treated equally throughout our lives. we have never fully lived up to that idea. we have never walked away from

it. but there's danger walking too far away from it now, the way we talk in this country. because a long line of patriots like john mccain kept it from ever being something other than what it is. i think about our friendship of 40 years, the hammer and tong debates we had in the senate. we'd argue. we were like two brothers, we'd argue like hell, really go at one another, and then we would go to lunch together. not a joke. or john would ride home with me. i mean, we traveled the world together, and by the way, when he found this magnificent woman and got married, i'm the one who convinced him to run in arizona as a republican. bless me father, you got to admit, cindy, i did. i said, john, you can do this job. my only worry is you'll do it too well.

running opposite sides of the nation's highest office when he was running for president and i was on the vice presidential ticket, we still remained friends. the conversation we had, he had with my son beau, the attorney general of the state of delaware, decorated major in the u.s. army was a guy who spent a year in iraq, about serving in a war oversea, about the courage and battled against the same cancer. and that took john and my son. two weeks ago, i thought about john as i was standing in another part of the world, in vietnam. excuse me if i -- it was an emotional trip. i was there to usher in a 50-year arc of progress of the two countries, pushed by john, and i might add, another john, the former secretary of state, john from massachusetts won the

silver star as well. once at war we are now choosing the highest possible partnership made possible through john's leadership. i mean it sincerely. think about it. while away i visited a marker depicting where john had endured all the pain, imprisoned five and a half years, solitary confinement for two years. given an opportunity, an opportunity to come home if he just said a couple of things. he was beaten, bloodied, bones broken, isolated, tortured, left unable to raise his arms above his shoulders again. as i stood there paying my respects, i thought about how much i missed my friend. and it's not hyperbole, from the bottom of my heart, i mean this. i thought about something else as well. i thought about how much america missed john right now.

how much america needed john's foresight and courage and vision. i thought about what john stood for, what he fought for, what he's willing to die for. i thought about what we owed john, what i owed him and what we owed each other as well, americans as well. you see, john's one of those patriots when they die, their voices are never silent. they still speak to us. they tug at both our hearts and our conscience, and pose the most profound questions, who are we? what do we stand for? what do we believe? what will we be? for john, it was country first. sounds like a movie, but it's real with john. honor, duty, decency, freedom, liberty, democracy. and now history has brought us

to a new time of testing. very few of us will ever be asked to endure what john mccain endured. but all of us are being asked right now, what will we do to maintain our democracy. will we as john wrote, never quit. will we not hide from history, but make history. will we put partisanship aside and put country first? i say we must. and we will. we will. [ applause ]. >> but it's not easy. it's not easy.

>>. [ crowd noise ] >> hang on a second. i'll be happy to meet with you after i speak, okay. >> why do you have yet to declare an emergency? >> i tell you what, if you shush up, i'll meet with you immediately after this, okay? [ applause ] democracy never is easy, as was just demonstrated. the cause is worth giving our all for democracy, makes all things possible. let me begin with the core principles, democracy means rule of the people. not rule of monarch, not rule of the money, not rule of the mighty. regardless of party, that means respecting free and fair elections, accepting the outcome, win or lose. it means you can't love your country only when you win.

[ applause ] democracy neens rejecting and repudiating political violence, regardless of party. such violence is never, never, never acceptable in america. it's undemocratic. and it must never be normalized to advance political power. and democracy means respecting the institutions of the government of free society. that means adhering to the timeless words of the declaration of independence, we hold these truths to be self-evident, a mission statement embodied in our constitution, a system of separation of checks and balances. our constitution, the bulwark to prevent the abuse of power to ensure we the people move forward together under the law, rather than believing the only way is one way or no way at all. but our institutions and our democracy are not just of

government. the institution of democracy depends on the constitution and our character. our character. and the habit of our hearts and minds, institutions like the mccain institute and the new mccain library. built at arizona state university, with funding from the american rescue plan which i signed into law when i came into office. [ applause ] a library that's going to house john's archives, host dialogue and debate, inspire future leaders around the world to serve tens of thousands of under served arizonians, as a reminder of our obligation to one another. these principles of democracy are essential in a free society but they have always been embattled, today let's be clear, while we made progress, democracy is still at risk. this is not hyperbole.

it's a simple truth. a simple truth. protection and preservation of democracy the central issue of my presidency, from the speech at gettysberg to the speech on the january 6th insurrection to philadelphia, to the speech i made at union station in washington. i have spoken about the danger of election denialism, political violence, and the battle for the soul of america. today in america to honor an institution devoted to the defense of democracy, named and honored for a true patriot, i'm here to speak about another threat to our democracy, that we all too often ignore, the threat to our political institutions, to our constitution itself, and the very character of our nation. democracy is maintained by adhering to the constitution and the march for perfecting our union by protecting and expanding rights with each

successive generation, including that little guy. he's going to talk about it. that's okay. in my house, kids prevail, okay. this isn't optional. we can't be situational. we can't be only there when it's good for yourself. it's constant and unyielding, even when it's easy and most important when it's hard. for centuries, american constitution has been a model for the world with other concerns adopting we the people as their north star as well. but as we know, we know how damaged our institutions of democracy of the judiciary, the legislature, the executive have become in the eyes of the american people, even the world in the past few years. i know virtually every major world leader. that's what i did when i was a senator, as vice president and now. everywhere i go in the world,

i've met now with over 100 heads of state and nations of the world. everywhere i go, they look and ask questions, is it going to be okay. think about this. first meeting i attended of the g7, the seven wealthiest nations in the world in europe, the nato meeting, i sat down. it was in january after being elected, early february. and i was in england, and i sat down, i said, america is back. macron looked at me and said, mr. president, for how long. for how long. and then, chancellor of germany said, mr. president, what would you think if you picked up the paper tomorrow, "the london times", and it said one thousand people broke down the door of

parliament, and marched and killed two bodies and ordered to overthrow an election with the new prime minister, what would you think then? what would america think? what would we think? the leading nation in the world, having gone through what we went through, and many of you travel internationally. many of you know people from around the world. i'd be surprised if you heard anything different than the concern about are we okay. is the democracy going to be sustained? and for that institutional damage, we seek distrust and division among our own people. i'm here to tell you we lose these institutions of our government at our own peril. and i've always been clear, democracy is not a partisan issue. it's an american issue. i've come to honor the mccain institute and library because they are home of a proud republican who put his country first. our commitment should be no less.

democracy should unite all americans, regardless of political affiliation. there's something dangerous happening in america now. there's an extremist movement who does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy, the maga movement. not every republican, not even in a majority of americans adhere to the maga extremist ideology. i know because i have been working with republicans my entire career. there's no question the days the republican party is driven and intimidated by maga republican extremists. their extreme agenda, my friends, they're not hiding their attacks. they're openly promoting them. attacking the free press as the enemy of the people, attacking rule of law as an impediment. fomenting voter suppression and election subversion. did you ever think we would be having debates at this stage of

your career where banning books and burying history, they're more determined to burn the place down than to let the people's business be done. our u.s. military, and this is not hyperbole, i have said it for the last two years, is the strongest military in the history of the world. in the history of the world. it's the most diverse, the most powerful in the history of the world. it's being accused of being weak and woke by the opposition. one guy in alabama is holding up the promotion of hundreds of these officers. frankly, these extremists have no idea what the hell they're talking about. i'm serious. they're pushing a notion the defeated former president

expressed when he was in office and believes applies only to him, and this is a dangerous notion. this president is above the law, no limits on power. trump says the constitution gave him, quote, the right to do whatever he wants as president, end of quote. i've never even heard a president say that in jest. i'm guided by the constitution. or by common service and decency toward our fellow americans, but by vengeance and vindictiveness. we see the headlines, quote, sweeping expansion of presidential power. the goal, quote, balance the power by increasing the president's authority over part of the government, end of quote. what did they intend to do once they erode the constitutional order of check asks balances, and separation of powers. limits independence of federal

agencies, put the money to fund prison. give the president the power to refuse to spend money the congress has appropriated? if he does like what it's being spent for. not veto. but it's there. get rid of long standing protections for civil servants. remember what he did as he was leaving office, he imposed a new thing for civil service, and then imposed a new schedule, schedule f, it's called. these civil servants had to pledge loyalty to the president, not the constitution. it did not require any protections. they had not civil service protection. one of the first things i got rid of when i became presidential. just consider these as actual

quotes from the maga movement, quote, i am your retribution. splitting throats with civil servants, replacing them with extreme political cronies, maga extremists claim support for law enforcement only to say, quote, we must destroy the fbi. it's not one person. it's a controlling element of the house republican party. whitewash attacks of january 6th by calling the spearing and stomping of police a, quote, legitimate political discourse. did you ever think you had hear leaders of political parties of the united states of america speak like that. seizing power, concentrating power, attempting to abuse power, purging and packing key institutions, spewing conspiracy theories, spreading lies for

profit and power to divide the american every way. inciting violence against those who risk their lives to keep america safe. weaponizing against the very soul of who we are as americans. this maga threat is a threat to the brick and mortar of our democratic institutions. it's also a threat to the character of our nation. it binds us together with americans with a common cause. none of this is surprising, though, they have tried to govern that way before. thank god they failed. but they haven't given up. just look at recent days. their accusations against treason against a major news network because they don't like his coverage. i don't know what to say about fox in that becomes.

i'm joking but think about it. tomorrow i have the honor of overseeing the change of responsibilities of the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff of the united states military. from one genuine hero and patriot, general mark milley to another, general c.q. brown, both defining leader of our time, and yet here is what you hear from american extremists, about the retiring patriot, quote, he's a traitor, end of quote. quote, in times gone by, the punishment would have been death, end of quote. this is the united states of america. this is the united states of america. and although i don't believe even a majority of republicans

think that, the silence is deafening. the silence is deafening. hardly any republican called out such heinous statements. just watch one maga senator said blocking promotions of hundreds of top military leaders and affecting not only those leaders but their families, their children. maga extremists claim support of our troops, but they're harming military readiness, leadership, troop morale, freezing pay, military families in limbo, just say look the other way, when the defeated former president refused to pay respects at an american cemetery near paris, referring to american servicemen bury there, and i have been to this cemetery as suckers and losers. i'm not making this up.

i know we all tried not to remember it. but that's what he said, he called servicemen suckers and losers. was john a sucker? was my son beau who lived next to a burn pit for a year, came home and died, was he a sucker for volunteering to serve his country? same guy who denigrates john mccain. it's not only wrong, it's un-american. but it never changes. the maga extremists across the country have made it clear where they stand. the challenge for the rest of americans, for the majority of americans is to make clear where we stand. do we still believe in the constitution? do we believe in the basic decency and respect? the whole country should ask itself, and i mean this sincerely, what it wants. and i understand the threats to

our democracy. i believe very strongly the defining feature of our democracy is our constitution. i believe in the separation of powers and checks and balances, that debate and disagreement do not lead to the union, i believe in free and fair elections and the peaceful transfer of power. i believe there's no place in america, none, none, none, for political violence. we have to denounce hate, not embolden it. across the aisle, across the country, i see fellow americans, not mortal enemies. we're a great nation because we're good people who believe in honor, decency, respect. i was able to get the infrastructure bill passed. it's over a trillion dollars. the majority of it so far has gone to red states who didn't vote for me. no, i'm sorry. i represent all americans.

[ applause ] and i believe every president should be a president for all americans. to use the office of the president to unite the nation, uphold the duty to care for all americans. i've tried my very best, and i'm sure i haven't met the test all of you want me to be by try my best to meet the highest standards, whether you voted for me or not because that's the job. to deliver light, not heat. no make sure democracy delivers for everyone. to know we're a nation of unlimited possibilities. of wisdom and decency, a nation focused on a future. i spent more time with xi jinping than any world leader has. 68 hours along with just he and i and an interpreter. traveled 17,000 miles with him here and in china. on the tibetan plateau, he asked

me, can you define america for me. and i was deadly honest, i said, yes, in one word, possibilities. we in america believe anything is possible if we try it. anything we do together, we can get done. we faced tough times in recent years, and i am proud of the progress we made as a country. the real credit doesn't go to me and any administration for the progress, for this progress, the real heroes of the story are you, the american people. that's not hyperbole again, which is why i'm asking you, regardless of whether you're a republican, democrat, or independent, put the preservation of our democracy before everything else. put our country first. over the past few years, we can and should be proud of american democracy. proud of what we have been able to hold on to. we can't take democracy for granted. when you were in high school and college, you took political science, every generation has to protect democracy, i used to

think that that was just a saying. but here i am as president of the united states of america making this speech about my fear of the diminishment of democracy. folks, every generation has to be vigilant. you know, toward the end of my senate campaign, i convinced storm thurman to vote for the civil rights legislation. not a joke. and i thought, well, you can defeat it. you can't defeat it. just bury it. when someone comes along and lifts up the rock and breathes a little oxygen in there, it comes roaring back. it comes roaring back. we should all remember, democracies don't have to die at the end of a rifle. they can die when people are silent. when they fail to stand up or

condemn threats to democracy, when people are willing to give away that which is most precious to them, because they feel frustrated, disillusioned, tired, alienated. i get it. i really do. i get it. for all of its faults, so american democracy remains the best path forward to prosperity, progress, fair play, equality, and democracy requires all of us and all of the major parties, you matter. . and again, i'm not just trying to be nice here. you matter. all of you in this auditorium. because history and common sense tell us that we can change things by adhering to our constitution and our institutions of democracy. our sacred task of our time is to make sure that they change not for the worst but for the better. democracy survives and thrives, not be smashed by a movement more interested in power than in

principle. it's up to us, the american people, in my view, the more people vote, the more engaged the whole nation becomes, the stronger democracy will be. so the answer to the threats we face is engagement. it's not to sit on the sidelines. it's to build coalitions and community. to remind ourselves there's a clear majority of us who believe in our democracy. and are ready to protect it. so the students here today, young people across the country, you're the reason i'm so optimistic. i know i don't look it, but i have been doing this for a long time. all kidding aside, i have never been more optimistic about america's chances in domestic and foreign policy as i am today. i really mean it. the young people, 100,000 students at this university and all across america, they are the

most gifted, the most tolerant, the most talented and the best educated generation in american history. it's your generation, more than anyone else's who will answer the questions. the questions a young man asked me a moment ago, i'm going to meet with. questions for america, who are we, what do we stand for, what do we believe? who will we be? it's not your burden alone, jr. generation will not be ignored, will not be shunned, will not be silenced. i have said it before, we're at an inflection point in history, one of those moments, and it only happens once every several generations, once every eight or nine generations, the decisions we make in a short period of time like we're in now will determine the course of the country and the world for the next six or seven decades. so you, me, every american who's

committed to preserving our democracy and our constitutional protections, we carry a special responsibility. we have to stand up for american values embedded in the constitution, the declaration of independence. because we know the maga extremists have proven they won't. madeleine albright wrote a book, we are, and any room i walk in, no matter what heads of state i'm with, everything stops. not because of joe biden, but because i'm president of the united states of america. we are the essential nation. we are the essential nation. the rest of the world is looking. we have to stand up for our constitution, our institutions of democracy. maga extremists made it clear they're not going to. history is watching. the world is watching.

and most important, our children and grandchildren will hold us responsible. let me close with this. in three years, we'll commemorate the 250th anniversary of the signing of the declaration of independence, a moment not only about our past, celebrating all we have done, but a moment about the future, but all it can be, still be. imagine that moment and ask what do we want to be? now is our time to continue to choose and secure a sacred cause of american democracy. i know we can meet this moment. john knew we could meet this moment. he believed so many patriots before him, the character, destiny, and our own lives and the life of this nation. he believed in us. that's what we see in the mccain institute library, and every day places across america doing

extraordinary things. and remember, it's the soul of america depends on the soul of all americans. how we choose to see our nation, how we choose to see ourselves, how we choose to lead, not only by the example of our power but by the power of our example. so let's never quit. let's never hide from history. let's make history. if we do that, we'll have done our duty to the country and each other. we kept the faith. we'll approve through all of its imperfections, america is still a place of possibilities, a beacon for the world, a promise realized where the power forever resides with we the people. that's our soul. that's who we truly will. that's who we must always be, and that's why i have never been more optimistic about america's future. i need to remember who we are. we're the united states of america.

there is nothing, nothing beyond our capacity when we act together. god bless you all and may god bless john mccain and his family, and may god protect our troops. thank you. ♪♪ president biden speaking at the opening of the mccain institute and library, a building that is paid for by the american rescue plan. he was introduced by cindy mccain, john mccain's widow, and proceeded to tell the story about how he introduced the two. he is imploring the public, imploring americans to engage in democracy, to care about democracy, to take part in democracy, to vote. saying that democracies don't have to die at the end of a rifle. they can die by people just not engaging with them. and he says this time is serious. it's necessary right now because of all the threats we face, specifically the threats to our

democratic process. it's notable that he was in arizona, a place that donald trump and his allies claimed election fraud without evidence. they tried to get the vote overturned there. there's currently investigations. he's there to say there's an election coming in. you have to take part or we're going to lose this. joining us from tempe, arizona, senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. tell us about what you saw there today and how this message dove tails with the president's reelection campaign? >> reporter: as you just saw it was an emotional and sobering speech, and he actually went much further than he has before attacking not just trumpism and the maga movement, but donald trump himself. he used his name at least once during this speech, and it was a very powerful setting here, and in doing so in arizona, announcing the federal funding for this mccain library.

now, i mentioned it was emotional in the room when president biden talked about his long friendship, decade's long friendship with john mccain, there was an audible reaction in the room. choked up about how john mccain was lost to cancer much like his son beau. he transitioned, going further than he has in speeches on this topic, talking not just about threats to democracy and the extremism of the maga movement but also mentioning donald trump by name, and saying that he believes he's above the constitution. really hitting that theme throughout this speech. again, going much further than he previously had. i find it interesting that this comes one day after the gop primary debate. there was no mention of any other republican presidential candidates. president biden seemed to be focused squarely on the 2024 presidential election. i had spoken with a senior white house official before the

speech. this speech was in the works for several weeks. president biden himself was working on this speech, working it on the plane heading to arizona from california just last night. so this was a speech that president biden had wanted to give, a message that he wanted to hit extremely hard even though he's given several other speeches on this topic. it's a message that him and the white house may feel that they really need to hit hard, especially as we head into the 2024 presidential campaign. his bidenomics message has not hit the american public adds hard as they would have liked according to recent polling. also this particular message when he gave his last speech at independence hall, democrats were pulling ahead of republicans when it came to which party would protect democracy. according to our latest nbc news poll, both parties are neck in neck with that question, which

party protects democracy. you saw the president with a full-throated attack on maga extremism and donald trump himself. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you very much. joining us now is republican congressman charlie dent. one of the things i found interesting is he mentioned some of the stuff we have been seeing from donald trump's social media, some of the rhetoric. he seemed to suggest that general mark milley deserves execution, and president biden alluded to that and said there's just been silence from the republican party. there basically has been silence from the republican party. didn't hear anything about that even on the stage for the debate last night. given the opportunity for the candidates to differentiate themselves. donald trump is the front runner here. they're trying to beat him. instead of trying to overcome him, instead of trying to point out all the ways he might not be fit for office, no one said anything about that. >> that's because they're all trying to win second place right

now. >> second place doesn't get you to the white house. >> right, second place is last place in this case. which makes me question why some of them are bothering running at all, other than chris christie, and asa hutchinson who was not part of the debate last night, not many are really taking on donald trump frontally and directly, which you must do in order to win an election. i mean, it's inexplicable to me tha republicans aren't just tearing the bark off the former president and the fact that he has brought nothing but defeat to the party. you're right. they're not going to win an election by ignoring donald trump. it hasn't worked so far. it's not going to work in 2024. >> you said they have been losing elections with donald trump at the forefront. they have lost the last three elections or under performed greatly in the last three elections. what is holding them to this man. i know there's that 30% rock solid support, but that's not winning.

what's holding them to him? >> it's not so much fear of donald trump as it is fear of his voters that could turn on them. most members of congress, in both parties and the republican party, many represent very safe districts, and those districts, their only real political threat is to the right and the trump base is large enough to affect a primary outcome. that's what they're afraid of. it's interest to go talk to the 18 house republicans who represent districts that joe biden won. they have a different calculation. their battle is in the general election, and they cannot be seen ago doting over donald trump because they know trump is the kiss of death in their general elections, and many of their districtings. this is the problem, a lot of republicans feel they can't win with donald trump and without him. >> i get that for the primary voters. i still don't get it for some o. presidential candidates. again, second place doesn't get you anywhere. it's last place.

i wonder about pennsylvania, your great state. how are voters taking in what they're seeing? that's a state that matters, are there any voters that didn't vote for donald trump that you know of that are looking at what's happened since then, the insurrection all the indictments, and are saying to themselves, you know what, i want to give him another shot? >> i don't think donald trump's done anything to help himself because he intervened in the senate and gubernatorial elections in the last cycle. a lot of people are unhappy with donald trump's interventions. although, i have to say, though, i get a sense a lot of people weren't happy with joe biden. i think many people are looking for a third alternative right now for president as well. i think that's an issue that the biden people better be worried about. right now, trump has done nothing to help himself. government shut downs, obsessing about the last election, you know, wanting to execute general milley, and never ending fire

hose of outrageous statements are not helping trump among those swing voters, you know, who are paying close attention. in fact, they're probably more turned off than before. >> former congressman, charlie dent, i'm glad you were able to get away from the other network, and be with us again: >> thank you, katy. after a quick break k inside the impeachment hearing, i'll be joined by a member of the oversight committee, congressman lee. we're back in 60 seconds. don't go anywhere. anywhere. and this pro with the perfect slice. and if we profer it, we know america will too. wh about spaniards? and i guess spain. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash now. i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniffs] still fresh. still fresh! get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection with downy unstopables.

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congresswoman, thank you for being with us. >> the democrats trying to focus on today. let me play a little bit of what you said during the impeachment inquiry. let's listen. >> and chairman's district, the republican shutdown would cost 8,937 of his constituents her hi pi checks. in 1yi78 jordan, it will cost 3,339. marjorie taylor greene's will cost 6,306 constituents of their paychecks. in lawyer boebert -- >> democrats are the party of shutdowns. you guys love shutdowns. >> so what are you trying to do there? >> yeah, it's refocusing on what is actually happening here, right? there are a lot of distractions that we experience in this congress, have experienced in this congress, and in this committee specifically. but the reality is that there is

no evidence. their own witness started the hearing by saying there is no evidence, and yet here we were, and there we were talking about everything but what's most important, that our government is shutting down in two days, that there are americans who are worried about how they're going pay their bills, how they're going to maintain for what could be a month or more. and there is no energy being given to that right now. so i wanted to redirect, to remind americans what's actually happening right now, not just what the decoy is. >> so what do you think the role of the democrats is as this -- as we barrel towards saturday at midnight? >> i think that, you know, right now we have to continue to redirect attention, you know. mccarthy -- i won't say that mccarthy is in control. those members of his caucus who have been holding him hostage shamefully or perhaps maybe are more in control. but what we need do, we need to

continue to put that attention on what's most important. there may be republicans over on that side of the aisle who don't agree with the freedom caucus right now, who don't agree with a government shutdown. and i would assume that if they do exist, maybe we can help to give them some courage to come over and do what's right, to help redirect and remind them what their own constituents want and need in hopes of them putting a stop to what is clear mccarthy cannot. >> are you talking about a discharge petition? are you talking about a discharge petition? >> those are among -- that's among the options, right? obviously, the senate side has talked about and done a continuing resolution. we are exploring every option that we can. because reality is that no democrat, no democrat wants to shut this government down. not a single democrat wants to

be here after saturday, you know, the 30th at midnight. we want to make sure that we're delivering for our own people. it's our own staffers, people who work in this capitol would are going to be harmed. we see them. we know them. congressman summer lee, thank you very much. i know you've been trying to figure out audio issues on your computer there. those are the other voices in case anyone at home was wondering what the other voices were. we appreciate it. thank you so much for joining us. and coming up, talking about the shutdown. that's frustrating. let's also talk about the debate last night. all of this has been deeply frustrating. the fact that voters aren't thrilled with either of the candidates leading the races right now is frustrating. and the would-be contenders again didn't exactly sell themselves or our current system at the so-called republican debate. is there a better way? stay tuned. one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief.

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focusing on. >> i actually agree with ron desantis. >> speaking at the same time. >> did you catch that? because frankly, it was hard to catch anything what would better be described as a republican cacophony. last night it could only make you wonder what the point was. the leading contender was not there. instead of trying to define themselves against him, after all, he is the one they do have to beat, say by pointing out what happened on january 6th, or that he suggested general mark milley deserve execution, or he is currently under indictment in four separate cases, or a new york judge just ruled he is a cheat, or with him at the helm, republicans have lost or underperformed in three straight elections, instead of forcefully

doing any of that, the candidates on stage seem to be fighting over who could deliver the best chewed over applause line. joining us now is former adviser to house speaker john boehner and paul ryan, and nbc news political analyst brendan buck. i found last night depressing because i think the american public deserves a substantive debate among people who want to lead this country. and all i heard, when i could hear anything at all, was, again, just prechewed lines that they had rehearsed that didn't have any substance behind them. >> yeah, it felt incredibly small. it was on this incredible stage. the reagan library, air force one flying over, but the debate itself was so small and so petty. this is -- it is a really consequential choice that the republican party is about to make. and did not rise to the moment. none of these debates have. at this point, it feels really almost silly that we're having these di baits. you can be upset at donald trump for not showing up, but i don't blame him politically.

i really blame the people on the stage who to this point have ignored him almost entirely throughout their campaigns and expected anything different than this situation. last night -- >> i don't understand why they keep ignoring him. he is the one they have to beat. i understand the fear of maybe alienating some voters, but you're not going to win them over. he is beating you. you have to define yourself against him, right? >> 100%. some of it is self-preservation. if you're tim scott, you don't win, you probably need to get reelected in south carolina. so you don't want to alienate people. but i think it's very clear that several of these people got into this campaign thinking that donald trump was just going implode. i don't know what based on all of our history with him over the last eight years you could assume that was ever going to happen. but that seemed to be what he was banking on. and that clearly hasn't happened. at this point, i don't really understand how they get up every day and go out and do this and run when they simply refuse to do the very obvious thing. i see it. you see it. we all see it. but they can't bring themselves

to go after the front-runner. i don't expect how they can see anything changing any time soon. >> we're out of time. but over and under on glenn youngkin entering the race? >> i'm pretty low on that. hopefully he sees there aren't a whole lot of people looking for a mitt romney style candidate right now. >> we'll see. that is the rumor out there. new reporting from robert costas suggests there are a lot of donors who are really trying to convince him, especially after last night's debate. brendan buck, good to see you. next time let's do it for a little longer. we have a lot to talk about. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. is 4:00 in new york. i'm ayman mohyeldin in for nicolle wallace. what joe biden refers to as the central cause of his presidency, defending our democracy. just moments ago, speaking in arizona at the announcement of a library