we had an incredible kick off to our pawed live to, or at the texas festival in austin last week. it was a blast to be onstage the with pod live show in chicago at the house of blues with the amazing naomi klein and the one and only joyreid. get tickets now. if you've never been to one of

them, they are jt an absolute ton of fun. you can also scan the qr code on your screen now to grab yours before they sellout. there's just a few left. i hope to see you there. alex wagner tonight starts now. >> i'll continue to follow the with pod tour as i have. >> you can man the merch stand. >> thanks, dude. thanks a lot. have a good night. and thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. today was the first hearing in the house republican impeachment inquiry into president biden. and when i tell you there was not a lot of there there, this inquiry is so far based on paranoid vibes and conspiracy hunches, don't just take my word for it. here are the three witnesses the house republicans called today to make their case. let me say that again, these are the witnesses that house republicans called. >> i'm not here today to even

suggest there was corruption, fraud, or any wrongdoing. >> in fact, i do not believe that the current evidence would support articles of impeachment. >> you mention in your oral testimony you had written a commentary entitled you'd go to prison for what biden did. that was you'd go to prison for what hunter biden did -- >> that's exactly right. i was cutting down words to stay within my five minutes. >> you realize that's an important word you left out, though. >> sure is an important word. now, far-right republican members of congress spend a lot maybe all their time on political stunts. this was a completely different level. in the words of congressman jamie raskin if republicans had a smoking gun or even water pistol they'd be presenting it today but they didn't.

which seems to buttress the criticism this entire inquiry are where republicans are desperate to find controversy where none so far exists. that alone would be a breach of public trust, a violation of why they're in office to begin with. but this saturday night at one minute past midnight our federal government is set to shutdown, and not only are house republicans spending today putting on this impeachment circus rather than trying to pass a budget to prevent that shutdown, but nbc news confirmed today the house oversight committee put in charge of this impeachment inquiry, that committee has deemed the staff of the chairman, james comer, that staff is comprised of essential workers. the house judiciary committee which is by the way also investigating president biden has done the same for the staff of its chairman, jim jordan. that means even if the entire federal government shuts down,

the hunt for impeachment outrage goes on because in the mind of house republicans this is the essential work. the amazing and what, if anything,o news site government executive chembed through the contingency plans to see how many federal workers would not be deemed essential if the government shutdown. it found that 93% of epa and nasa workers would be furloughed. 90% of the staff of the securities and exchange commission, 90% of the staff of the department of education, 54% of the civilian staff at the department of defense. the department of justice, homeland security, the department of transportation, the list goes on and on. all of those agencies would have to tell sizable if not down right huge chunks of their staff to go home while republican chairmen worked tirelessly to get to the bottom of a president biden scandal that so far does

not exist. now, i've been talking about the government shutdown because first and foremost thousands of government workers would be the first impacted by the government shutdown. do you remember the airports during the last shutdown? >> after lines like these last week, the tsa is now calling for backup. around the country 10% of its employees called off work on sunday compared to just 3% on the same day last year. air-traffic controller tyler cenard and his wife becky are facing mounting bills including hospital care for tuckerse's efficiency disorder. >> we're real families that need a real paycheck. >> 10,500 air-traffic controller watched the nations skies but after months without paychecks

some are joining other government workers at food banks. furloughed air-traffic controller instructor young came for food and to volunteer. >> i wasn't paying all my bills until the shutdown. why should i have to take out a loan for something that was not even my fault? >> the government shuts down this weekend more than 13,000 air-traffic controllers and more than 50,000 tsa officers would be forced to work without pay. they are the real essential workers, and they do not deserve this. let me bring in transportation secretary pete buttigieg in this conversation. secretary buttigieg, thank you for joining me on a busy night in a busy week. i know there are a lot of preparations probably under way. can you give us a sense of what the implications of a government shutdown are on a practical level, for example, to air travelers? >> well, it's just a matter of time before chaos in congress would lead to chaos at the

airports. each passing day that a shutdown continued, it would become harder and harder to maintain the systems and the process that keeps our transportation systems running. as your story noted and as america experienced in the last shutdown, one thing that would happen immediately is air-traffic controllers stopping pay. i want to think about the level of intensity associated would a job where you're going to a tower or facility and make sure that 16 millionaire craft a year at the end of the day get to where they're going safely. there's a huge amount of tension in that job. and to come to that with the added stress of coming from a household where your family doesn't know where your next paycheck is going to come from is unthinkable in terms of -- i guess it's not unthinkable anymore because this congress and extreme republican in the house conference seem to be

willing to let it happen again. but it's certainly unacceptable. another thing that would happen immediately is we would have to halt bringing on new air-traffic controllers. if you've been following any of what's been going on in air travel over the last couple of years, you know we have a shortfall that has built-up over many years that we finally turned around and getting in the right direction, in other words, a high rate of pace beginning to get better and not worse. but that would also stop. the air traffic academy in oklahoma people would be sent home. and even lasting a few days we'd be feeling it into next year in terms of the disruptions to our pipeline. those are just a couple of examples from aviation alone across transportation and across this country. a shutdown like this is something we can't afford there's no good time for a

shutdown. this is the exact wrong time to reverse that progress with a politically motivated shutdown. >> it seems like republicans may be framing this as bureaucratic inconvenience. but hearing you talk about it, this is the safety of people traveling throughout the united states, whether it's the faa which i think is facing maybe a double government shutdown because there's a deadline to renew the law that basically establishes the agency, the tsa which was very vulnerable, those workers were very vulnerable in the last shutdown, not having enough tsa agents to make sure flights are safe, there are real practical safety implications to shutdown the government, and yet i would love to get your thoughts on the decision of oversight chair james comer to deem his staff to be essential workers, to keep up the impeachment road show while house republicans dither and

refuse to make a deal that can prevent a government shutdown. what does that tell you about the priorities of the republican party at present? >> it's insane. i mean here we are something like 50 hours from them shutting down the funds we use to pay air-traffic controllers to make sure that 16 million flights a year take off and land safely, and they're busy with shutdown, they're busy with impeachment for they don't even know what for, they just want to have one, this is their idea how to spend their time. sometimes i'm watching this stuff go on and i'm thinking to myself do they understand this is not a game, this is not a show, and this is not practice. this is the actual legislative body that actually governs the real military and government of the most powerful nation on earth. this is not an exercise. they're it. they're the only congress we've got. and you've got it dominated now by a group of fringe republicans

who are preventing speaker mccarthy from being able to invest his time in delivering the deal he actually made. remember the speaker of the house and the president of the united states already made a deal how to handle this spending precisely designed to head off this situation. they made that deal earlier this summer, and now the speaker can't seem to follow through and deliver it because of these fringe republicans. by the way, also, some of the same republicans in the house in those committee rooms who tried to politicize some of the problems they're now making worse. you know, last week i was up on capitol hill. i was testifying in the house transportation infrastructure committee. several of the house republicans there tried to attack the administration over the east palestine derailment in ohio making no mention of the fact they are demanding cuts to railroad safety inspections and are threatening the government shutdown in order to get their way. there were representatives who tried to politicize staffing

shortages in air-traffic control, one in particular who i saw on tv this morning saying that he's going to keep taking his paycheck because he doesn't think of himself as wealthy even though he's actually a millionaire. but he didn't think there'd be a lot of sympathy for federal workers like air-traffic controllers who are about to go without pay because of their actions. and he's somebody else who voted to cut air-traffic controller earlier this year in the so-called limit safe grow act that speaker mccarthy moved through the house. so it is absolutely upside down in terms of any sense of priorities. we need them to be working on keeping americans safe and keeping american transportation system and the rest of our government running, and yet they're devoting their time and attention busy fighting each other in this shutdown drama to impeachment inquiries, to they can't even say what. >> you noted the cuts house republicans are demanding to

rail inspections. i think it would lead to 11,000 fewer miles of rail track inspected by the department of transportation next year. that's what house republicans want as part of all these negotiations. i do want to ask you because the biden administration seems to draw a line between kevin mccarthy and the maga wing of the caucus, and yet i sort of -- on its face i understand that distinction, but kevin mccarthy is a tool of the maga right-wing at this point. the reason there is not a deal, the reason the government may shutdown is because kevin mccarthy won't make a deal with democrats. because if kevin mccarthy makes a deal with democrats, kevin mccarthy isn't speaker of the house anymore. is the statesman like thing to do if you're kevin mccarthy to basically throw yourself on your sword, understand you won't be speaker anymore, and keep the government open? >> well, you know, i can't tell kevin mccarthy what to do. he's not going to call me for advice, but i know this. he is the speaker of the house of the united states and house of representatives for the whole country. and he has a responsibility, and

the congress has a responsibility to take care of the whole country. as also the leader of house republicans, which i guess means he owns everything that comes out of that conference and caucus that seems to be at war with itself. but the rest of our imperfect government system is pretty much ready to go here. the president's ready to go, the senate even on a rather bipartisan basis has made clear they're ready to act. it's down to whether house republicans can first of all make peace with each other and make peace with their leader kevin mccarthy. but we're running out of time. we have hours -- hours left before these effects start to happen. i don't want to get too technical but you mention this double whammy that could be coming for the faa because we're also running the faa on a five-year authorization. we're on year five out of five.

if both of those lapse because of the chaos in the house republican conference right now, that means some of these effects won't be easily reversible, some of the funds that would be lost that would ordinarily come into our fund for improving physical instruct at airports and making safety improvements, we don't get that back. it's not even clear some workers impacted would get their back pay, which thankfully would happen to many other workers affected by a shutdown automatically, but not in this case. this is just no way to run the most powerful country on earth. they've got to come to their senses, got to get to work, and got to do one of the most fundamental jobs of the united states congress, which is to fund the government. >> not a rehearsal, not an improv group, not a puppet show. also p.s., republicans fly, too. sir, so good to have you on the program. good luck in the hours ahead. thank you for your time tonight.

>> thanks for having me. more to come tonight. up next the first hearing in the republican effort to impeach president biden goes nowhere, and that is according to fellow republicans. plus president biden is ringing the alarm bell. we'll have more on this just ahead. >> there's something dangerous happening in america now. there's an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy.

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led hearing today, which was part of their impeachment inquiry into president biden, but maybe just this one time let's have fox news do it for us. >> all right, for the better part of six hours i have been following these hearings, save an hour off to do my fox business show earlier today. i don't know what was achieved over these last six-plus hours. welcome, everybody. i want to put it in perspective here, though, and we are going to legally go through all the detail. but james comer, the oversight committee chair, said there'd be presented a mountain of evidence against mr. biden. it was referring to president biden, but none of the expert witnesses today presented yet any -- any proof for impeachment. now, to be clear this was not about impeachment.

it was about launching an impeachment if inquiry. but it was worth pointing out none of the witnesses today were fact witnesses. that means that none were involved in the investigation into the alleged activities in the first place. what's more, none of the witnesses testified today of direct knowledge of what republicans have been claiming about joe biden. in other words, that this -- the way this was built-up where there's smoke there would be fire. again, i'm not a lawyer. but where there's smoke today, they've got a lot more smoke. >> joining me now is congressman adam schiff, the prosecutor in donald trump's first impeachment trial. congressman schiff, it's great to see you. when you've lost fox news, who do you have left? the fact is the goings on today seems like -- is debacle the right word? i'm not sure. what road is this going down for

republicans? >> i think it was a complete debacle, and if you pardon the expression, it was an ask backwards impeachment proceeding. historically what congress has done when the president was engaged in wrongdoing that might rise to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor is do a thorough investigation. once you've done the investigation and believe there's a sound basis, then you start an impeachment inquiry, and at the end of that you bring in the experts to evaluate the evidence you've presented in and put in constitutional context. today the republicans did it in exactly the opposite direction. they started with experts who had no evidence to evaluate, and i'm not surprised that the fox news watching crowd was frustrated by this, but this has been the case all along. this has been an impeachment in search of a reason for being. jamie raskin had it exactly right. it was an impeachment about nothing, and it's also such a stark juxtaposition of this

meritless impeachment inquiry taking place, wasting time while we're just a couple days away from a shutdown of the federal government, which is what they should be focused on. and if i can, alex, i just want to respond to the question you asked earlier what should kevin mccarthy do. you know, he gave his word to joe biden when they reached that budget deal to avert a default on our debt. he should tell the republican conference i gave the president my word, i gave it to him on behalf of our conference, and i'm going to honor my word, and i'm putting up this bipartisan bill, and i want you to vote for it, i'm going to vote for it. and if you remove me, you remove me, but i'm going to keep my word. that does not appear to be the approach of kevin mccarthy, and its service members are going to go out without paychecks who are going to suffer, it's federal firefighters going to suffer. it's travelers at airports going to suffer, parents with kids who are going to lose child care that are going to suffer because

kevin mccarthy won't keep his word and neither will the republican conference. >> can i ask you on that front, if kevin mccarthy does what most people assume is the right thing here to avoid a government shutdown, it almost assumes he loses his speakership. what is someone else who loses the speakers gavel on the point of the republican caucus. is the devil you know, pardon the expression of kevin mccarthy, is that whoever republicans come up with next for speaker? because keep in mind you guys could pursue a motion to vacate the speakers chair, but nobody's done that so far. >> you know, i would rather have someone of their word, someone you could trust and make a deal with, someone whose word meant something or stood for something or believed in something than a speaker who has none of those qualities because a speaker with none of those qualities as we are seeing can't govern. so, you know, i don't know that speaker mccarthy would lose the

speakership over doing the right thing. i know he's afraid of that. what he has going for him is they don't seem to have much of an alternative. after all the rebels in their conference aren't really interested in governing. they're interested in tearing down, but they don't have anyone else to step up to that position. so he may stay in a position, but frankly i would choose, if it were up to me but it's not having a republican speaker that's more effective even though they'd be more effective because they could help govern, and they could ideally work with us across the aisle to govern. in the senate a bipartisan proposal to keep the government funded got 77 votes to advance. they've been able to do it in the senate. we should do it in the house. >> what -- what is your expectation here about how this -- what are the next 72 hours, 96 hours look like? and republicans seem intent on

continuing the impeachment inquiries? they deem the staff for those inquiries essential workers, and a deal is so far nowhere to be seen. so what should be expect happens in the halls of congress? >> first of all, there's nothing less essential than the people that are working on this bogus impeachment inquiry. but where's this going to all end up? i think it's going to end up in a train wreck. in fact, i was talking to one of the republicans on the little tram after votes, the first session of votes today. and i asked him how does this end, and his answer was i can't tell you, not well. and sadly, it's going to end not well for the country because i think at this point they're likely to shutdown. i do think that they will come to embrace a cr. they will try to get some face saving device to at least claim some kind of a win, but it's a country that's going to lose,

and it's only a question at this point probably of how long people are going to be suffering before the republicans decide the pressure is too much and they need to put something forward that can pass in the house and senate. >> congressman adam schiff, you're welcome to use the phrase ass backwards anytime to describe moments like this. thank you for making the time tonight. still to come this evening one of these things is not like the other. president biden issuing a stark warning about the fate of democracy and republican presidential candidates arguing about curtains. plus some of trump's children may be called to the stand in a trial that is set to get under way next week. we'll have more on that just ahead. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now.

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today an appeals court rejected donald trump's request to delay his new york civil fraud trial, so now that trial will begin in just a few days, on monday. the judge in that case ruled earlier this week that trump and his codefendants committed fraud, but the trial is still onto determine damages and other related matters. and now we have the names of potential witnesses who could be called to the stand as part of that trial. and they are trump's children, don jr., eric and ivanka, his former lawyer, michael cohen.

his former cfo, allen weisselberg, and the man himself, donald j. trump. now, while new york attorney general letitia james has 53 names on her list of potential witnesses, trump's list is a lot longer at 128 names plus any witness on the prosecution's list. so a lot of people on the defense potentially that they might want to talk to. could take a really long time, which seems to maybe be the point. to that end in the criminal case over trump's efforts to subvert the 2020 election, trump's lawyers have now asked for an additional two months to file pretrial months. two more months, which is. in trump's other federal criminal case about classified documents found down in mar-a-lago special counsel jack smith has accused trump's lawyers of, quote, intentionally derailing the timing of that trial. joining me now is christy

greenberg, former deputy chief of the southern district of new york's criminal division and msnbc legal analyst, our secret in-house weapon, lisa rubin. all right, ladies, it's not even subtle the strategy here, which seems to be delay. but, christy, for people who didn't pay attention to the docket this week, earlier which is to say yesterday trump lost the effort to have judge chutkan recuse herself. literally as soon as she announces that, i think it was hours later trump's lawyers asked for two additional months to file for trial motions. it's like literally they have a deck of delay cards. the question is can this actually work? can this actually push this off significantly? >> so the one interesting thing in their filing before judge chutkan is they say we're not asking you to move the trial date. we're just asking for some additional time on the pretrial motions only. i think she may grant some sort of a compromise. maybe it doesn't give him 60

days, but if she were to give him 30 days, that doesn't necessarily move the trial date and allows her to preserve the record on appeal that they can't say there's ineffective assistance of counsel, they didn't have enough time, this indictment is august 1st and now we're talking a little over two months to file pretrial motions and that is the correct schedule on any criminal case, to give a little bit more time, still preserve the schedule, preserve the record for appeal i think she'll try to find some compromise. >> is it reasonable to assume you can bake in several more weeks for pretrial motions and not move the trial date. it's march 6th, right? >> it is march 6th. it depends what happens after the disposition of those motions. they are saying now we're not asking you, judge, to move the trial date because their whole sale effort to get her to move that trial date is truly unsuccessful, but do i think this incremental goal post moving is definitely towards that end, absolutely because the

pretrial motions they intend to file, they've essentially telegraphed they're primarily on legal and constitutional issues. they're not things that have to do, for example, of what they expect to find in discovery. that having been said, do i think they'll try and push it and push it, absolutely. >> that seems to be the play. i will also say, christy, what did you make of potentially 128 witnesses that trump's defense wants to call in his new york civil case? >> yeah, there's no way they're putting on 128 witnesses. i mean this is -- remember donald trump sued this judge two weeks ago. >> yes. >> and he just called him deranged in a post a day or so ago. so it's a bench trial. this is not a jury trial. this is trial before this judge, so i don't think he or any of his children are going to be defense witnesses at this trial. i do think he'll call some witnesses. i think he'll call witnesses to just continue to put forth these defenses, which at least as to

this one cause of action that the summary judgment was on are completely irrelevant. but these arguments that, okay, even if these statements were false it's subjective, valuations are subjective, there weren't material false statements, there was no requisite intent. he'll call people to talk about the real estate business being shady and these kinds of -- this is just business and how it's done. he'll call witnesses i think to have have a general defense without getting specific into the defense. because if you actually go into the examples that tish james is putting forward, they're incredibly strong, and they're objective not subjective. he's got appraisals, and then he has his own values which are hundreds of millions of dollars inflated. like this is not wiggle room area. this is blatant fraud. >> is there a chance donald trump takes the stand? i mean he's a name on both the prosecution and the defense list. >> i think there is if only because today i compared the defense witness list with the prosecution's witness list.

and they are entirely overlapping except for there are probably like three or four names on the new york attorney general's witness list that aren't on that list. trump appears on both. that indicates to me the attorney general intends to call him, and he has at least said in his public statements if they call me, i will testify, i will not take the fifth. proof is in the pudding. we'll see how that goes next week after opening statements from both sides, but i think there is a possibility that the attorney general fully intends to call donald trump and all three of his adult children. >> there is some peril in being deposed as part of a civil trial, right? because that could be then used in other suits. >> absolutely. and his trial testimony, anything he says under oath will be used against him potentially, so his criminal defense attorneys in all of his criminal cases are going to be strongly advising him to not testify. anytime he opens his mouth is just lie after lie after lie,

and i don't think he's going to be able to credibly show he didn't have any intent to defraud when he says, oh, here are these lists of properties that are with statements of financial condition but that was just a list for me. that's what he said in a deposition. it defies logic, so i don't think him gettingoon the stand is going to do him any favors. he may do it, but i think his attorneys will strongly advise him not to. >> is that reality that what you say in other areas may come back to bite you in the criminal trials, in criminal cases? is that what undergirds trump's decision not to seek a removal of his georgia case to federal court? he's basically saying i'm going to keep the fani willis indictment in georgia, i'm not going to -- not in georgia but in the state court. i'm not going to try to move it to federal court, is that because it would be too perilous to move it to federal court? >> that's one reason. but the pay off is not that

great comparable to what he's already achieved. with chesebro and powell barrelling towards a trial, that's a trial expected to take four months and that's excluding jury selection. he's already essentially achieved much of the delay he already wants without having to move it to federal court. and yes, if you move to federal court maybe you get a more favorable jury pool, but what trump really wants here is to be able to move that fulton county trial past the election. and given the delay inherent what's going on in fulton county plus his two other criminal trial dates that's highly likely particularly if that trial is expected to last several months. >> and we still don't know when donald trump -- when he'll have a hearing in that trial. it's still unknown what bucket of defendants he'll be in if he's with any other defendants in georgia. >> that's correct. it's all legal filings here on msnbc. thank you guys for help me

decipher what is going on. still ahead this evening, while republicans fight each other in washington and the debate stage, president biden sounds the alarm about republicans. that's next. republicans. that's next.

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this is not hyperbole, it's the simple truth. >> president joe biden was in arizona today to honor the late senator john mccain and to issue this warning. >> there is something dangerous happening in america now. there is an extremist movement who does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy, the maga movement. there's no question the day's republicanp party is driven and intimidated by maga republican extremists. their extreme agenda carried on fundamental institution of democracy as we know it. my friends, their not hiding their attacks. they're openly promoting them. seizing power, concentrating power, attempting to abuse power, purging institutions, spewing conspiracy theories, spreading lies for profit and power to divide america in every way. inciting violence against those who risk their lives to keep

america safe, weaponizing against the very soul of who we are as americans. frankly, these extremists have no idea what the hell they're talking about. no, i'm serious. >> for the fourth time since he took office, president biden explained the existential threat that trump's maga movement poses to american democracy. and that somber message stood in stark contrast to the behavior of republicans in congress who are less than 72 hours away from shutting down the federal government, and it stood in stark contrast to the utter unseriousness on the debate stage just 20 hours earlier at simi valley, california, where republican presidential candidates were focused on transgender surgery, government drapes, and nicknames for donald trump. >> we're going to stand up for the rights of parents, and we're going to pass a federal ban on transgender, chemical or surgical surgery anywhere in the

country. >> you're ducking these things, and let me tell you what's going to happen. you keep doing that, no one up here is going to call you donald trump anymore, we're going to call you donald duck. >> as the u.n. ambassador you literally spent $50,000 on curtains in a $15 million subsidized location. next -- >> you've got bad information. >> i will use the justice department to bring civil rights cases against all of those left wing soros funded prosecutors. >> it is an extremely odd moment in american history with one party ringing the alarm bells for democracy and the other apparently content to abide the extremism and instead bicker about curtains, but here we are. >> you have to stand up for american values embedded in the constitution of the declaration of independence because we know the maga extremist have already proven they won't.

>> we'll talk about the significance of this moment with presidential historian michael michael beschloss coming up next. beschloss coming up next

if you have keeping count the first one was on the anniversary of january 6th gettysburg 2022, the third at union station in washington, d.c., and today in arizona president biden did it again. he implored americans to save democracy for the fourth time at an announcement of a library honoring the late republican senator john mccain. four addresses in two years on the importance of american democracy and its greatest threat, extremists in the

republican party. when has a president ever had to address the health of our democracy this much in such a short period of time? joining me now is someone who may know a thing or two about that, michael beschloss, nbc news presidential historian. michael, so glad to have you here tonight and give context to this bay zar moment we find ourselves in, but is there a historical analog of a president warning the public of its demise so often in its first time in office? >> yeah, let's remember how singular this really is. go all the way back through american history we've never had what we've had right now, which the the prospect of an election next year between two major parties, two presidential nominees one who wants to preserve it and that's the guy you heard today, and another who said he wants to tear it apart

and destroy institutions like the pentagon and the justice departments and free and fair elections and bring about a dictatorship of retribution. the way this falls in history, alex, i think another way of looking at it is there's sometimes when a president frames a moment in history that lets us really see a period clearly. what joe biden today has framed an almost apocalyptic political struggle. that's sort of like in 1860 abraham lincoln said we can't live in a country half slave and half free. 80 years later franklin roosevelt when running for re-election said we americans may have to save the world from hitler. and here we are a little over 80 more years later to 2023, this first time in history joe biden is saying, you know, either come with me and protect democracy or elect my opponent who wants to tear it all down, and god knows

what's going to happen next. >> yeah, those are -- those will shock you into being alarmed if you aren't already, the idea these are -- the analogs or speeches given in the civil war era or world war ii, what's it say about what next year may bring. is there a precedent for the two parties being so i won't even say diametrically opposed but existing in parallel universes. you watch that republican presidential debate, and the things they're arguing about and the warnings that are being issued from the president of this country, the titular head of the democratic party, it's not even apples to oranges, it's like apples to lamb chops. there's no commonality, and i wonder if that's ever happened before as you see it in american politics. >> we have never, ever seen anything like this before. when, alex, have we seen a candidate for president, donald trump in this case who's also an

ex-president talking about the possible execution of his chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or talking about, you know, being in a world where people will be locked up or talking about destroying the civil service so that he can do whatever he wants? or if congress votes for something trump has said, you know, he will not necessarily use the money that congress has voted. that's dictatorship. that's not the democracy our constitution suggested. we've never had anything like this. you know, i was thinking, alex, 1972 richard nixon ran against george mcgovern. that was considered to be sort of a big choice. nixon called it the clearest choice in a century. compared to what we're facing right now those are two peas in a pod. >> they do look like peas in a

pod compared to what we're talking about today. michael, when we talk about what a speech can do in terms of stirring the body politics into action, i think it white house very much hopes people will listen to president biden's speech and do something about what he's saying. that seems far-fetched given where we are, but historically have speeches been able to move people into action and parties specifically? >> sure they have. did lincoln's speeches have an effect on what followed in the early 1860s, sure they did. franklin roosevelt was courageous in running for re-election in a country that didn't want another war like world war i, but he said let's build up our defense because we may have to defend a world of freedom. that was unpopular and having done that we would have been unprepared. that's what a president does at a moment in history like this. he doesn't say the issue is --

you know, some peripheral issue of the kind you just showed us that was in the republican debate last night like curtains in the residence of the u.n. ambassador. look at that and compare that to what joe biden was saying today. this is what's at stake. we could lose our country in 13 months, and rather than saying there are other issues that are more important, joe biden is doing what lincoln did -- and i'm not suggesting he's lincoln or franklin roosevelt -- but saying this is what's at stake. and most important you young people better vote because this is the world you're going to have to live in. >> michael beschloss, always wise. thank you for your perspective tonight. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. still remember democracies don't have to die -- they can die when people