>> that was his hook on linda. he gave her which he needed, which is somebody to say i love you, i will be here for you, i will hold your hand. that's what he prayed on. >> look, we all want somebody in our live loves us and cares about us and tells us how great we are. linda curry is not alone in that, but, how long are you willing to stick around for what turns out to be your eventual murder after you already suspect your husband? >> in linda's case, for the rest of her life. >> that's all for this edition of dateline, i'm craig melvin, thank you for watching. i'm a little nervous night too, i have to say. this is a big night. let me just start right. and this is who is going to be our guest tonight, and this is

from page one 84 of the book. on the evening of december 18th, mark meadows, my boss, chief of staff, returned from a meeting in the oval office and abruptly asked if i could tell his detail he wanted to go home, as if there was an emergency there. his detail quickly prepared his limo and he left campus without further explanation. shortly after march departure, i walk down to visit with molly and get a sense of the presidency plans. usually, if mark went home before the president went to the residents, i would stay at my desk in case the president needed anything from art or me. but since mark had left early with such confidence, i thought perhaps the president was wrapping up for the evening and i would get to go home early to. when i walked into the outer oval, i saw that the president was meeting with general mike flynn, the former national security adviser, who had pled guilty to lying to the fbi about his involvement with russian officials, getting a cooperation deal with special counsel robert mueller's inquiry into interference of the 2016 election. three weeks before today's meeting, on november 25th,

trump had issued flynn a presidential pardon. why is mike flynn here, i asked molly. i'm not sure, molly said. then i did, he's just talking to the president about some things. talking to the president about some things. got it. i went back to my office and settled in. molly came to my office soon after and asked if we had a wine opener. no, i said. mark doesn't drink, so we do not keep alcoholic paraphernalia in his vicinity. i try to joke, but she did not crack even a slight smile. i side. i know the vice president has won, all called his assistant. once we secured the wine opener we -- back to our respected desks. a few minutes later, eric herschmann and derek -- barreled down the hallway past my office, and rounded the corner to the oval office. i was imagining various reasons mike flynn could have for being there that had the lawyers in a panic. but then i remembered, it was derek lines as last day at the

white house. i figured, i was over thinking it. flynn probably left, there was maybe a toast for derrick in the oval office to celebrate his tenure at the white house. -- top aides and derrick's fiancée, liz, wondered in, and asked if i knew what was happening in the oval office. she had dinner plans with derek, and could not get in touch with him. i said, i'm not sure. but a bunch of people are in the oval. on cue, we both turned towards the sound of raised voices coming from that direction. although the oval office was about a ten second walk from my desk, it was highly unusual to hear any noise coming from their. we could not make it distinct towards that night, just people screaming at each other. malik called me to come to the outer oval. dan scavino was pouring the last of a bottle of wine into a glass. the screaming was much louder than i had anticipated. i looked into the oval office and saw a larger group. along with the white house lawyers were mike flynn, sydney powell, and patrick byrne, the

ceo of overstocked outcome. how did all those people get inside the building? i could tell the meeting was growing more contentious, so i decided to text tony, the deputy chief of staff. flynn is still here, and sidney powell, there's a brawl. he responded, oh holy heck. tony mediately called and asked if i knew what they were rolling over. he had been in the oval office earlier that day and heard the president talk about invoking the insurrection act or martial law. if that's what they were arguing over, tony said, i need to get mark meadows back to the white house as soon as possible. eventually, i got a hold of mark, who seemed reluctant to get in the line with the president. i urge him that it sounded like it was a matter of national security. a secret service agent who was standing outside the oval office came by. the agent said, i don't want to hear all of that. it's really upsetting. i wouldn't recommend going down there. the west wing was officially unhinged.

hutchinson continues, things seem to be breaking up as people filed out of the oval and walked by my desk. molly told me the president wanted to have dinner in the residence as will -- reconvene the meeting in the yellow oval after he finished eating. i told her i would stay in case something happened. she wished me luck and then she left for the night. dance can be no stopped by on his way home and said this is up. eric herschmann walked into mark meadows's office in a fury, pounding his fist on the wall. this can't be happening, he said. this is insane. pat cipollone, looking traumatized, said to me, this is nuts. mark needs to come back. derek lines asked, quote, does the chief really need more of a reason to come back? here it is. martial law. i mean, for god's sake. we called rudy to come help us do damage control. rudy giuliani, you know it's bad when we call rudy for backup. the chief needs to come back. i continue to call mark.

he continued ignoring my calls. so i called one of the secret service agents on his detailed. go past your phone to mark, now. i ordered. seriously? the agent asked. what if he's in bed sleeping? what do you expect me to do? shake him away? i responded, yes. this is a matter of national security. you need to put me on the phone with him. after a few minutes, i had marked on the line. mark, the president's reconvening the meeting in the wrote -- rudy is on his way as backup for pat cipollone. rudy, for pat cipollone. we are talking about the insurrection act, seizing voting machines. i felt my voice beginning to sound desperate. please, mark. you need to come back here. he said, all right, i'm on my way. hutchinson continues. i walk with mark to the residents, and he had asked me to come back at midnight to break up the meeting if it had not already ended by that. i heard the president scream, i don't care how you do it, just get it done. mark and i exchanged a pained

look, and he disappeared into the yellow oval. my hands were sweating as i walked back to my desk. i never heard the president sound so desperate before. i went to the residents around 11:55 pm, but the meeting had begun to end. i used my key to the rose garden to unlock the door to let everyone out. mark exported rudy off the present -- to make sure america's mayor didn't wander back to the residents. one hour after the meeting broke out, my watch budged with a trump tweet, quote, peter navarro releases 30-page report electing elected -- a great report by peter, statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 election. big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there, we'll be wild. wild. cassidy hutchinson was the witness who told us all of the worst things that we learned. about the plot to overthrow the

government after former president trump lost reelection. from cassidy hundreds and, we learned that the president was told by his deputy white house chief of staff about the number of weapons and the types of weapons people had brought to the rally sites in washington d.c. on january 6th 2021. from cassidy hutchinson, we learned that the president, having been informed about all of those weapons, then ordered that the metal detectors be taken down so the armed crowd could be allowed in with their weapons. he then, as planned, told that crowd to march on congress. from cassidy hutchinson, we learned that he not only told the crowd at the rally out loud that he would go to congress with them, he also tried to do it. >> so once the president had gotten into the vehicle with bobby, he thought that they were going to the capitol and -- we don't have the assets to do

it. it's not secure. we're going back to the west wing. the president had very strong, very angry response to that. tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of, i'm the president, take me up to the capital, now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle, and when mr. renata had recounted the story to me, he had motion towards his clavicle. >> we learn from cassidy

hutchinson and that remarkable day of public testimony that the former president not only tried physically to steer the presidential limousine to congress, and in her telling, physically lunged at the secret service agent telling him that the limo would not be going there. we learned from her as well that the president acknowledged repeatedly that he had in fact lost the election, but he just didn't want to have to admit. we learn from her that when trump was told that the rioters had in fact breached the capitol building and were surging in towards the members of congress who were trapped inside, he refused repeated requests to ask the rioters to stand down. we learn from cassidy hutchinson that when trump heard that the rioters were calling for the lynching of his vice president, who was on the promises, mike pence, we learn from her that he said that pence deserved that faith. that the rioters weren't doing anything wrong. she gave that testimony, she was 25 years old.

very much alone in the world, and very much without resources. and i mean that literally. to the extent that she was flat broke. she had a couple hundred dollars in her checking account, she had not paid her rent for months, her wi-fi had been cut off at her apartment, this was a very young woman who had had a very high-end job at the white house. she was effectively the chief of staff, the top staffer to the white house chief of staff. but she was a young woman who had only ever hide government employment, when the trump administration and did the way it did, she was alone and very much without resources. this was a working class -- first in her family to go to college, all of the connections, all of the post she had in life, she had developed herself on her own. as much as a person can do by the age of what, 24? when she was subpoenaed to testify, she was very much alone. she was unable to afford a lawyer on her own, she reluctantly therefore got one from trump. she says that that lawyer of actively encouraged her to not

tell what she knew. that arrangement lasted for a few of her first depositions until she could no longer live with herself. she finally connected with new council who would represent her for free, and without what she felt was potentially conflicted loyalty. and then she told all. she says in her new book in the prologue, quote, before retaining my new lawyers, at times, i had told less than the whole truth to a congressional committee charged with investigating a matter of the highest national implants. a matter that posed a threat to america's future greatness. -- or that had been recounted to me by witnesses. those events had precipitated the shocking assault on the united states congress, and an institution i cherish. it threaten the continued success of american democracy. my conscience was bothering me. and i came to the decision in parliamentary language to clarify and extend my

testimony. well, that is how she ended up telling the whole truth. she is further clarifying and extending her testimony in this new book that is out tomorrow, which is called enough. it contains a lot of new information. i started off taking notes when i started reading the book, thinking that i would want to keep the main new points of information on a sheet or to have paper so that i could stay focused on what i wanted to talk to her about. i ended up taking 20 tiny scribbles, handwritten pages of notes. all about what was new here to me. the new information in this book includes information about bizarre, apparent mishandling of classified information, including some, at least previously classified information. potentially still classified information, being carried around in a whole foods bag and dropped off with some reporters. there is a strange new story about what the white house chief of staff did in the last 15 minutes that the trump

administration existed on inauguration day. something that required him to move with lights and sirens through downtown d.c. to get there before noon, whereupon joe biden would become president. there's new information that as early as may 2020 the white house, the trump white house, may 2020, was already trying out the phrase stop the steal, and messaging about the 2020 election. six months before the election even happened. there is new confirmation from cassidy hutchinson that trump was mortally ill from covid, that he was so ill his life was in danger when he was hospitalized with the virus. there's confirmation from cassidy hutchinson that it was the former president himself who ordered the firing of the u.s. attorney for the seventh district of new york, jeff berman. mr. berman telling us tonight that before hearing that that's what's in capacity hutchins and book, hearing from us tonight when we called for comment, he'd been aware that his foreign had been ordered by president himself.

there are six different allegations about various white house men groping or creeping on cassidy hutchinson in this book, although i should mention that two of the six are both matt gaetz, so there's six alleged incidents but only five different men. we'll have more on that later. there's a lot to talk about here. and i'm cognizant that we're -- there's a lot to talk about in general. in the news right now, looks like the writer strike is finally over and in hollywood, when biden is going to walk the picket line tomorrow. something no president has ever done before. senator bob -- calling for his resignation after his indictment on corruption charges last week, and now former house speaker nancy pelosi is calling for his resignation as well. in the senate, democrat john fetterman was the first to call for minute disses racing nation. -- now senator peter welch is also calling on him to resign. senator menendez says he won't

resign, but this is now a boulder that is running downhill at him. it is hard to see how senator menendez stays. we are still looking at a government shutdown by the end of the week. there are even odds that a shutdown might also bring with it the end of the speakership of house republican leader kevin mccarthy. someone with whom cassidy hudson is very close. we've got the second republican presidential debate tonight's from now, with former president donald trump still not planning on showing up despite his lead in the polls. instead he's making headlines in the last few days for saying that this weekend that the chairman of the joint sleeves of staff should be executed for treason. and then today he said this news network you're watching right now should be investigated for treason, and it will be if he's elected president again. and this afternoon he tried to buy a gun. people under felony indictment aren't legally allowed to buy a gun, but that was a real moment today.

for cassidy hutchinson, it has been 15 months since her testimony if that turned the world on its ear. she has spent those 15 months out of sight, in part for her own safety. but also to write this book, and also to do three separate interviews with u.s. justice department prosecutors and one with a grain journey in fulton county. former president she served and who she says she at one point adored and to whom she was quite loyal for a very long time, he's now been indicted in four different jurisdictions on dozens of felony counts. cassidy hutchinson says she found the bravery to stop effectively lying by omission, to start telling which he actually knew, when she first read the story of this man. a man who had basically the same job as her, under a very different president. alexander butterfield had also been affected the chief of staff to the white house, chief of staff under president mix.

sort of a low profile, low name recognition -- the law with access to very high-level and sensitive goings on. like cassidy hutchinson, he was a loyal republican, loyal to the president, didn't ever want to be anything other than good at his job and i hope to the administration he served. but like caspian bend said, alexander butterfield also felt that he needed to be honest about what he had seen and what he knew. alexander butterfield has -- was a taping system in the nixon white house during watergate. cassidy hutchinson, seen here meeting with mr. butterfield after her testimony. she is how the nation learned all of the worst things we now know. as she puts it on page 321, about and i'm sure hinged chief executive willing to overturn the will of the people and plunge the country into chaos and violence under the advice of crazy people. to avoid the embarrassment of conceding an election he knew

he had lost. she said, that is who he is. and her testimony, we also know, that is who she is. a paragon of bravery, she has a new book out called enough. it comes out tomorrow, she is here tonight for an interview live. stay with us. stay with us. ly begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome... shortness of breath... and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. (smelling) ew. gotta get rid of this. ♪tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪

downy rinse and refresh. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog's food to the farmer's dog, the effects can seem like magic. >> here we go. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do.

back at my desk, i hear the news break. the first rioters have breached the capitol. they're inside. i'm registering the development as pat cipollone and pat philbin burrow passed me and barge into mark's office. the rioters are in the capital, mark. we need to go down and see the president now. mark is a statue on his couch. he doesn't want to do anything, pat. puck calmly gives mark direction. mark, something needs to be done. people are going to die, and the blood is going to be on your hands. this is getting out of hand. i'm going down there. my eyes are locked on mark. get up, go with pat. mark slowly stands, leaning

against the arm of the coach and walks silently to my desk. he is clutching his eyeglasses and his fist, his knuckles are white. he sets his bones on my desk. let me know if jim calls. meaning jim jordan. jim jordan calls minutes later. i feel a pen of hope. one sack, i'll go get him. i go to the dining room. is mark in their? i asked the valet. he nods. i look through the people and see the back of his suit. i opened the door to get his attention. the group is having a heated conversation about the rioters. mark sees me, and points at the phone screen where jobs color ideas visible. he goes over to take the phone, propping the door open with his body. i take a few steps back as mark takes my place in the doorway, and eye strain to listen to both conversations. the tv in the oval dining room is blaring, the president is yelling. what's he saying? i can't make it out. i hear him say, hey, repeatedly. hang. hang? what's that about? mark hands his phone back to me, thank you for me to return to my desk. back to my office, my phone

notified me of a trump tweet. mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrupt set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. usa demands the truth. hutchinson continues. i'm struggling to process what's happening as mark, pat cipollone, pat philbin, and eric herschmann stumble back to the office. i overhear their conversation, and suddenly everything makes sense. they are calling for the vice president to be hanged. the president is okay with it. he doesn't want to do anything, he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. he thinks mike is a traitor. this is crazy, we need to be doing something more. my phone is pinning nonstop with emails, texts, signal messages, and unanswered calls. most phones are to. i'm devoid of emotion as i consider what i should do, and then, letting what i just heard thinking, i'm gripped with anger and hurt. i snatched my coat, i run out of the office to go to the eisenhower building. i need to check in with mark's secret service detail.

we need to have a plan in case the worst happens. in case this is the beginning of a coup. that is from cassidy hutchinson's new book, which is cold enough. which is out tomorrow. miss hutchinson, it's nice to meet you. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me, rachel. >> this is the first live interview you've done in the media. it is the second live interview you've done in life. the first one was your testimony. how are you doing? >> i'm doing well. it's a pleasure to be here with you, and it's an honor to have this as my first live interview. >> second live interview. the first one, much more consequential than this one. don't worry. i mean, it's been 15 months since that testimony. your life has changed dramatically since then. i said, based on what i read in your book, i didn't ask you about this ahead of time. i said in my introductory marks that a lot of the reason that people haven't heard from your seen you in the world in the last 15 months is at least in

part because of concerns about your security. is that fair? is that still a concern for you? >> yes. >> how are you taking care of yourself in that regard? you don't have to tell me anything. >> i am an open book. it has been difficult in a lot of ways, this year has helped me open my eyes to the dangers that trump actually poses on people in these situations. and i'm not the only one, and i wish i could say i'd be the last person. but unfortunately i won't. and that's what he does to people that he thinks speak out against him, or that detract from him. and sort of the more dangerous things that donald trump does, we've seen time and time again. it shouldn't have to be like this. >> you write about in the book repeatedly, about your regret as -- from having not supported him, but specifically for having facilitated some of the political attacks that he

launched as president on people that were designed the way he designed them. to hurt people maximally, and in some cases to expose them to danger. did that give you any insight into why he needs politics to work that way for him, and any insight into how to combat it? >> it gave me an insight into his psyche. while i was writing the book, and help me understand why certain circumstances -- after i testified. with that said, he -- it helped open my eyes to what he wants from people. he wants to know that he is getting a reaction, he thrives when he has an audience. it could be a negative audience, it could be an audience that he likes. it could be his base. what he needs is to hear people reacting to him. and that's when he knows in his mind that he has been successful to something. >> is that why you've never responded to his attacks on you? >> i never responded to his attacks on me because i don't

need to give him oxygen. he is going to say what he's going to say, and he said much worst things about much better people than i am. >> the kind of pressure that you described experiencing to protect mr. trump, i mean, some of it was self directed, right? you say at one point in the book, it struck me. you said that you adored him at one point. that you were and are very much still a republican, that you believed in what he was trying to do for the country. you wanted to be a good staffer, you want to serve the white house, you wanted to do right by your colleagues. and that sort of easily leads towards the next presidential project for him, which is protecting him from all of the investigations around january 6th and everything else. but that's pressure, it not only came from you, it also came from his world. he didn't have financial resources to hire your own lawyer, you didn't have access to a lawyer to represent you freely. you ended up with a trump world lawyer. but you described as having not

told you to live, but encourage you to not tell everything that you knew. that pressure is not just at cassidy hutchinson biographical detail, it is a live issue for a lot of people. a lot of people in multiple jurisdictions deciding how they're going to respond to a subpoena. what they may testify to in court, what they're going to do about their legal representation. it's a live issue for a lot of people right now. and some of them may be watching right now. what would you say to them about how to balance the equities in that kind of a calculation? >> in my opinion, i don't know if there really is a way to balance the equities. if you have self interest of being completely forthcoming and truthful in what you're witnessing, that could potentially hurt or damage mr. trump, and not even speaking to the issues of legal counsel, just as a person, knowing what

i experienced. like you said, some of it was self inflicted for me. i did -- i knew what i wanted to do, i knew how i felt about the circumstances surrounding the january 6th. but i also was scared to be frank. i was scared at times to make that break. i saw what happened to some of my former colleagues who made that break and how they became the subjects of the vitriol and the vile rhetoric that comes out of mr. trump and his associates. especially when you break with him. if i want to say anything to the people, though, that maybe finding themselves in a similar situation to the situation that i found myself in, or just that they want to make that break, it's possible. in my opinion, what i think is a damaging in ways is isolating the people that come out and are questioning why they did -- it is hard to come out. it is hard to find your way out,

because of what we said. i had financial limitations, and i did have other counsel. but it was also hard coming out on the outside because i didn't know if i would be welcomed by people. so i think that if we can create and foster an environment where people feel that they're welcomed, and that there is a life on the other side, which is one of the more eye-opening parts of this experience for me to. there are good people in this world that want to help, and that are there, and that have similar interests that we do. we all want the republic to survive. we all should want the republic to survive. the way that mr. trump's trajectory is currently going, i'm not confident that he we'll have it survived. and i would just encourage them to think about that. >> when you say that we speak out a moment where mr. trump is dozens of points ahead from his opponents in the primaries, the tone in the political press

about what's happening in the republican presidential primary is that even people who support his competitors are effectively conceding that he is going to be the nominee. republicans seem poised to choose him again, even after what happened the last time, and specifically what you are able to tell the country about what it was like inside the white house. i was struck in the book, not just about what you said about january 6th, but some of the other ways that you described what was that about him as a president. on covid, you said i doubt any politician could have led the country through this pandemic in 100 years without making errors of judgment and execution. but of all the people in the world, president trump was uniquely on suited to the challenge. he lacked empathy and was stubborn and impatient. you said he had a restless, impulsive personality. you described his attention span not being up to an average meeting. i noticed that his eyes often wondered the room when meetings are lost in his attention span.

ultimately, you described what happened on january 6th from him as at a minimum, a shocking dereliction of duty. all of the things you described from having seen him up close our public record now. none of these things are secrets. why do you think your fellow republicans want him more than they want anybody else as their next candidate for the white house? >> i can't speak to the psyche of my fellow republicans, i won't even say that because i don't think that we are a part of the same republican party. i still consider myself a republican. i consider myself a republican in a sense of senator mitt romney, and the reagan republican party. i believe that the republican party needs a strong conservative party. i do not believe that mr. trump is a strong republican. but in this next election cycle, in my opinion, it's the make-or-break moment for the republican party. now is the time, if these

politicians, these men and some women that are currently in congress want to make the break and want to take the stand, they have to do it now. we can't wait any longer for them to do it. i don't know why they're so willing to support him. i think it's extremely disappointing, and it is not a hard issue to take. we're talking about a man who, at the very efforts of his, being almost destroyed democracy in one day. and he wants to do it again. he wants to run for president to do it again. he's been indicted four times since january 6th. i would not have a clear conscience and be able to sleep at night if i were a republican in congress thought supported donald trump. and i think if they're not willing to split with that, then there is a serious danger for the party. >> i want to talk with you about those indictments. i know you've spoken to federal prosecutors and with the fulton county jury. i want to ask you about some of

the news you've broken and the book. we're going to take a quick break. cassidy hutchinson's artist, we'll be right back. right back. hair at the mall. but...he wasn't. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattress's exclusive gelflex grid draws away heat, relieves pressure, and instantly adapts. sleep better, live purple. visit purple.com or a mattress store near you. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪

[stomach growling] it's nothing... sounds like something. ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion♪ ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. >> back with us once again is

cassidy hutchinson, her new book is cold enough. it comes out tomorrow. thank you again for being here. you right in the book about your interactions with the january six committee. six interviews with them, plus the life testimony. but then you also say that you met three times with justice department personnel and prosecutors, and once with the fulton county ground jury. is that all? do you expect to be called to testify in any of the trump trials? >> i have fully complied with all government investigations, and all entities thus far, and i will continue to do so. >> we can't talk about whether you're going to testify? >> if or when i am asked to testify, i will comply as fully as i have in the past. >> did prosecutors involved in any of those conversations or

any of the live cases ask you to leave certain topics out of the book? >> no. everything that is in the book it is also consistent with my transcripts that are on the record with the january six committee. >> okay. >> everything pertaining to the election fraud. >> yeah. >> and mr. trump's attempt to overthrow the government, to stay in power. all at the public record. >> one of the things that you described in some detail in the book that i don't quite know what to make of involves your direct boss, mark meadows. i've been describing you with a shorthand, and you use this in the book. chief of staff to the chief of staff, you're the top staffer to mark meadows. you're with him a lot of the time, you definitely know what's going on in his life. you are close to him in the work sense. every day that he is in the office. and yet, there is some mystery that i don't totally understand as to what he was burning in his fireplace. and to what he was doing with

either a classified or previously classified documents related to crossfire hurricane, related to the russia investigation. are you describing what appeared to you, to be either mishandling of classified information or mishandling of presidential records, destruction of presidential electorate, which of course is not allowed. >> the final days, obviously, were chaotic in a number of ways. i was under the impression, and i know there were several of my colleagues that were under the impression of how classified documents were being handled was not within proper protocol. now, with saying that, i think it speaks also to how reckless and careless much of the administration was. not taking classified document protocols seriously a lot of the time, we've seen that with mr. trump as well. but specific to my experience

with mr. meadows in the final days of the administration, i talked about it a lot in the book. to shed light on how chaotic things were, but i can't really speak to what he was doing. i would leave that as a question to him. >> it does sound like there were confrontations in the white house, including those that involved you, related to perceived mishandling of sensitive information. i dropped the bed on pat cipollone's floor, here are your classified documents back from the reporters, mark. i didn't hide my contempt, my words right for the sarcasm. mark and mr. cipollone appeared into the bag. i saw mark swallow hard. puck shot me a piercing look. overwhelmed, had agonized, seriously? seriously, we do not have time for this. i was already walking out of his office. you then describe mr. meadows at 11:45 a.m. on and i duration day, asking the secret service how quickly they can get to the justice department. because he wants to try to

declassify something, literally in the last 15 minutes when donald trump was president. >> joe biden is about to get sworn in, so yes. >> what was that about? what was he trying to do? >> that specific binder was pertinent to crossfire hurricane, which for the record at the time, i had no idea what crossfire hurricane was. but looking at the bigger picture here, bringing it back to next year's election, this group of people could very well be in power again. and do we want people who have already shown that they're willing and want to overthrow an election, duly elected, for a duly elected president, which is the pinnacle of our democracy? do we want to put people like that back in power? do we want to put people back in power that have mishandled, showed to mishandle the most sensitive national security secrets that our nation has? that's the question that we need to ask ourselves.

>> we got a statement from a spokesperson for mr. meadows tonight, vaguely casting aspersions at you. but then saying much of her claims in this book about mr. meadows are otherwise filled with have truths, falsehoods, and purposefully admitting construct to sell books. mr. meadows essentially casting aspersions on your character, saying that you are making things up out of cloth in order to make money. you worked so closely with him for a long time, but you also described in the book that you never really trusted him and there are several instances you describe where he flat out lied to you. even on close working matters where you should have been on the same side. i should just ask for a response for that statement, and ask you what do you think happened between you and mark meadows? >> i don't think there was anything necessarily negative two happened between me and

morris meadows. i was very outspoken after january 6th about how i felt about it. mark and i also knew that we were two different people. and that's okay. we talked about it, we would regularly joke about it, that i was more moderate than he was. we did in large part work well together. >> ideologically moderate? >> ideologically moderate. more so than he was. but putting that aside, in an environment like that, that doesn't matter as much. in terms of his statement, i would encourage him to go testify under oath if he thinks that what is in the book and what i have testified to you under oath, which is consistent with what is in the book, he can go testify under oath if he has strong feelings about that. >> are you disappointed that the justice department elected not to prosecute him for contempt of congress when he ignored the congressional subpoena that you responded to from the january 6th investigation? >> i'll leave it to mr. meadows and his team to respond to that. what i will say is i hope that

mark is now doing the right thing. what i define as the right thing, which is coming forth and honoring your oath that you swear to protect our country, not your president. >> we're going to take a quick break. we're going to come back, i have something to ask you about that creeps me out, and i'm sorry in advance. >> i'm used to it, it's okay. >> the creepy questions when we come back. what did he, we'll be right back with cassidy hundreds, and next. an next my eyes are watering. look how crusty this is. ugh, it's just too much. not with this. good advice. when stains and odors pile up, it's got to be tide. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ )

♪♪ when you have chronic kidney disease... there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. ♪ farxiga ♪ and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. farxiga can help you keep living life.

ask your doctor for farxiga for chronic kidney disease. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ farxiga ♪ type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea

or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. living with type 2 diabetes? ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. are you guys watching? this is my favorite part. you're watching? okay, time to get your own bed, hank. chewy has great prices. hope you like plaid. i do. who wants popcorn? shop and get a $30 egift card through october 1st. at chewy. [stomach growling] it's nothing... sounds like something. ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion♪ ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could be something more serious called attr-cm,

a rare, under-diagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist, and ask about attr-cm. my late father-in-law lit up a room, but his vision dimmed with age. he had amd. i didn't know it then, but it can progress to ga, an advanced form of the disease. his struggle with vision loss from amd made me want to help you see warning signs of ga. like straight lines that seem wavy, blurry, or missing visual spots that make it hard to see faces like this one, or trouble with low light that makes driving at night a real challenge. if you've been diagnosed with amd and notice vision changes, don't wait. ga is irreversible. it's important to catch it early. talk to your eye doctor about ga and learn more at gawontwait.com >> joining us once again is

cassidy hutchinson, her new book is called enough. it comes out tomorrow. miss hutchinson, one of the claims in your book that received some attention ahead of publication is an allegation you make that rudy giuliani effectively groped you at the trump rally on january 6th. you say that he reached his hand under your blazer and then under your skirt. mr. giuliani's spokesperson has called this a disgusting ally against mayor giuliani. he gave us that statement again himself tonight. but i was struck by the fact that he was not the only one. page 52 of the book, you say that john boehner of all people looked down at my cranberry vodka and whispered dart liquor or red wine from now on, then he tugged on the ends of my hair, saying and lose the ponytail. you describe one man who worked in the white house, mike mckenna, as having a tendency

to publicly single out women with crude and demeaning comments. you described the president, and this is not groping, this is not physical, but you described him as telling you to add blonde highlights to your hair, which you then went home and did and came back to the white house the next day. that doesn't happen in normal workplaces, i'm just telling you now. sorry. >> i learn a lot on the outside. >> yes. there's a whole world out there, when guys get fired for doing stuff like that. >> it's unbelievable. it shouldn't be unbelievable. >> shouldn't be unbelievable, but there's also a couple of instances involving congressman matt gaetz. i will admit, most of the context here have kept me up and i'm comfortable. he chuckled and brushed his thumb across my chin. has anyone ever told you you are a national treasure? you describe a night at camp david, where he was leaning against the door frame, while somebody answered the door to another cabin. not strained his posture when

kevin mccarthy asked him what he wanted. he said he'd seen my golf cart outside, and asked if this was my cabin. -- >> he explained that he was lost and asked me to escort him to his cabin. i told him to proceed around the circle drive, all of the cabins are clearly marked. it's impossible to get lost. he asked me one more time to leave with him. kevin mccarthy then said, quote, get a life, matt. and shut the door. now, mr. gaetz, we asked him for comment on these allegations tonight. he told us, i don't remember either of these events. and based on cassidy's pie false statements, i doubt the occurred. i did date cassidy for a few weeks, when we were both single years ago. we parted amicably and remained friends thereafter, even during president trump's post presidency. and then he goes on to make other unrelated claims. i'm sorry to ask you if you want to respond to that, but i'm going to ask you. >> i would love to respond to that. thank you for giving me the option.

i will give matt credit, part of the statement that we did have an amicable working relationship and we were good friends at points. matt gaetz, in my opinion, is somebody that i personally do not hold in high regard in terms of trust. and i do not think that matt gaetz has the best track record for relationships. and condoning his relationships, how he thinks that they might be defined, i will say on behalf of myself, i never dated matt gaetz. i have much higher standards in the men, and math, frankly, is a very unserious politician. we see that today with the ruckus that he is causing on capitol hill with the spending negotiations. and i don't really have much else to say to somebody that's more concerned about a soundbite that actually passing legislation. >> mr. giuliani's remark in response to your allegation about him, which was graphic and gross, was that this is a disgusting lie against him.

do you stand by that statement? >> i stand by my statement and what i described in the book, and i agree that it was gross. >> cassidy hutchinson, you have been through a lot, particularly as a very young woman who had to do a lot of this on your own. the very record that you've given us is much more complete than anybody else could have given us, and that took a lot of bravery to get their. this has been a hard time in your life. but you've done a service to your country, and i hope that good things happen for you. >> thank you, rachel. >> thank you. congratulations. former white house aide cassidy hutchinson has a new book, it is cold enough. it's out tomorrow, it's full of news. you should read at. o news you should read at you should read at tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. this halloween,

trick or treat yourself to the blendjet 2 portable blender... it's to die for. blendjet 2 gives you monstrous power for a delicious smoothie, shake, or frappé anytime, anywhere. cleaning blendjet 2 is scary easy. just blend water with a drop of soap. recharge quickly with any usb port. boo-gie on over to blendjet.com and order yours today.

my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars

for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. inez, let me ask you, you're using head and shoulders, right? only when i see flakes. then i switch back to my regular shampoo you should use it every wash, otherwise the flakes will come back. he's right, you know. >> i know you have a very big is that tiny troy? the ingredients in head and shoulders keep the microbes that cause flakes at bay. microbes, really? they're always on your scalp...little rascals... but good news, there's no itchiness, dryness or flakes down here! i love tiny troy. he's the best. make every wash count!

guest coming up this evening, and i will be eagerly watching the television to hear everything you discuss with. >> alex, i have two words for you. cassidy