him in. >> let me tell you something that will probably break you out. it will come from guy number two in your house. he said after the home invasion they came back. >> are you serious? >> he wanted another round. they parked in front of your place. they had a little surveillance. kept it out. and jason scott wanted to come back in and even the score. >> i did not know that. that is scary. >> it could've been your picture on the 11:00 news. >> that's right. how does one person cause so much damage and so hurt and so much loss for so many people? it still blows my mind. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. kevin mccarthy mansion the balance after democrats bailed him out to avoid a shutdown. congressman matt gaetz said today that he'll file a motion

to kick mccarthy out of his job this week. plus, transportation secretary pete buttigieg will be live in studio as the president frames this whole episode on a full-on failure for republicans. later, donald trump is expected to travel to new york today and attend the start of his civil fraud trial tomorrow. michael cohen today. he's on the witness list for this trial and he could come face to face with his former boss for the first time in years. we're waiting for remarks for president biden at any moment from the white house and when he's ready we'll take that to you live. in the meantime, i want to level set on what we've seen in washington over the last couple of days. one republican congressman said that the last week was like,

quote, riding a mechanical bull, quite a visual but pretty accurate. president is going to weigh in after congress managed to pass a short-term funding bill that will keep the government open for the next 47 days. preventing a government shutdown is good news. so for the time being, as of right now, house speaker mccarthy has managed to avoid a complete disaster of republicans' own making by relying on democratic votes to get it over the finish line, congratulations are in order, i guess. but before you think, wow, government is functioning again in washington, not quite. because even the mccarthy tried to please his base by not include funding for ukraine, there's now questions on whether he'll keep his speakership. matt gaetz is going to put a

motion to vacate mccarthy -- >> i tend to file a motion to vacate against mccarthy this week. rip off the band aid, move on with new leadership that can be trustworthy. >> for mccarthy said bring it on. is there alternative candidate for speaker who can get enough votes? who knows. remember it took 15 rounds last time for mccarthy to get elected. another 15 rounds for speakership could be distracting. this also raises the question of what else kevin mccarthy might agree to in order to hold on to his speaker ship, ahead of another spending fight. the members insisting on hard-right immigration reform, they're not going anywhere

either. in many ways this is just kicking the can down the road. setting up similar fight where hundreds of thousands of programs, travelers over the holidays will again be riding that mechanical bull waiting for a resolution right before thanksgiving. now, while some members like congressman baker acknowledged in the house saying they're tired. this entire sag ya has been another example of the dysfunction of republican govern ship and we watched a republican debate with the most memorable moments, are as to-up between nikki haley and tim scott screaming over each other and chris christie using to a cringy prepared line for attacking

donald trump for not being there. this bizarre scene standing in front of non-union workers at a non-union plant. he alone he was the candidate in favor of the workers during a uaw strike. trump is still facing 91 felony counts. he's continuing to encourage political violence. there was also a seven-hour impeachment hearing on thursday just days before a potential shutdown where even fox news favorite jonathan turley a key witness for republicans told lawmakers, i don't believe that the current evidence would support articles of impeachment and even some of the evidence that republicans gathered even favored president biden. real bang-up week for the republican brand, but the problem is, their dysfunction impacts all of us and 47 days from now, will republicans make

funding based on deep cuts to social nets. will mccarthy continue to cut out ukraine funding at the behest of maga republicans. in just a month and a half we could right back where this whole mess started. joining me now is chris murphy of connecticut. level set for us, i want to start with the news from matt gaetz this morning, he's going to offer a motion to vacate the speakership. you haven't been in the house for a long time but you have the work a chaotic house. >> well, listen, this is an ongoing disaster for the american people, republicans are simply not fit to govern, they're not serious people and while the house of

representatives, republican caucus is going to decide who's going lead them, people out there are hurting, we have still crises we need to talk about, gun violence, republicans are going to argue among themselves who's going to be the next speaker. we're not shutting down the federal government, what a low bar for house republicans we celebrate the fact they can barely keep the lights on with hours to go before a shutdown. ing mccarthy had to reach out and get democratic votes. but as you mentioned the price here he gave into republican demands to cut ukraine off, ultimately america's security is at risk if we don't start funding ukraine again, one of the big fights we have to undertake over the next month and a half, not enough to just

keep the lights on in the federal government we have to live up to our national security obligations and make sure that kyiv doesn't become a russian city. >> there's a lot of risk here. rumors that kevin mccarthy could bring a funding bill for ukraine, it could be worse is what i'm saying, is there incentive to save mccarthy as speaker? >> so, no matter who is the speaker of the house, no matter who's in charge of the republican caucus the path to a majority in the house runs through democrats who actually want the federal government to operate and want to help ukraine and handful of more responsible republicans, so, you know, that's the problem here, whether mccarthy is in charge or somebody else the governing majority in the house are

democrats and a minority of republicans. i hope that mccarthy is going to make good on his commitment to bring a ukraine supplemental funding bill before the house. what we know it has the majority in the house and a senate, a commanding easy majority of members who will support continued funding for ukraine, my worry is if we wait until the middle or end of november to have this conversation about whether we're still supporting ukraine it may too late for ukraine by that point, my preference in the next few weeks to bring a supplemental funding bill before the senate and send it over to house, and dare mccarthy the decision to abandon ukraine even though he has a majority of republicans and democrats onboard. >> put pause on the idea of

bringing up this supplemental funding bill that he's been rumored to be considering. >> well, i'm concerned by the fact that when it came down to it, the only demand that mccarthy was willing to give into that was coming from his hard right was the demand to abandon ukraine, he stood up to them on their immigration bans, he rejected their spending cuts, the one thing he did give into was this idea that we should end american support for ukraine, let's be honest, an invitation for putin to march his army into the rest of ukraine. so, that doesn't bode well for the future of ukraine and it means for those of us who believe that this is a fight will have to step up your advocacy. >> you've been through a lot of these spending fights before, government shutdowns before,

what do you think the next 45 days look like and is your expectation we're looking at a similar situation in the leadup to thanksgiving? >> well, i certainly worry that we're in for, you know, a series of groundhog days where we're just having the same fight where mccarthy and these arsonist republicans bring us up to the precipice of shutdown over and over. the reality is, this is terrible for the american economy. if these hard-right republicans claim to be fiscal conservatives it's not fiscally conservative to shut down the government because we ultimately pay federal employees who are furloughed when they come back to work. so, i think the next year and a half are just going to be a series of ongoing disasters in

the house of representatives. i think we're going to have to try to do a better job of making the case to them that there's nothing fiscally conservative about threatening a shutdown or actually going through a shutdown. >> it's a reminder the power of voting and how important it is who's in charge. just to go to politics for a moment, rfk junior is out with a new video strongly hinting he could run as a third party -- that quote, a major announcement, do you worry that him running as an independent, third party, could hurt president biden and the democrats? >> i don't. frankly what you see the portions of the electorate that are interested in robert kennedy jr., you know, tend to be coming from donald trump's conspiracy theory base. so if he's running as an independent i think that might

hurt donald trump or the republican nominee more than joe biden. the fascination with rfk junior's candidacy was a bit of an elite media fascination, ultimately voters know what the stakes are here and you're going to -- i think third party candidates aren't going to be a big deal in the general election as folks may think. people who support democracy, who support ukraine, who support competence in government are going to understand that the only way to preserve those things is to vote for joe biden. >> senator chris murphy, thank you for encouraging people to take a deep breath. pleasure talking to you today. we've got our eyes on the white house, we're waiting remarks from president biden. we'll take you to that live. up next, i'll ask pete buttigieg how likely congress comes to an agreement before government shuts down right before holiday travel. plus, as donald trump

prepares to head to new york today, for a fraud trial that starts tomorrow, a look back at everything that led to this moment. later, michael cohen will tell us what he's expecting to see play out in the courtroom when he comes face to face with donald trump for the first time in years. we'll be right back. ight back.

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we're waiting for president biden to speak from the white house, we'll take that to you live when he's ready. after congress avoided a shutdown last night with time running out there's a lot to dig into here. in a statement after signing the stopgap bill the president said, quote, the american people expect their government to work. let's make sure it does. hard to disagree with that. i think that's what everyone wants to happen. we do expect our government to work. but lately house republicans have had a hard time holding up their end of the bargain. president biden also said in his statement, we should never have been in this position in the first place, just a few months ago speaker mccarthy and i reached a budget agreement to avoid precisely this type of manufactured crisis. for weeks, extreme republicans tried to walk away from that deal demanding drastic cuts that would have been devastating for millions of americans, they failed. joining me now here on set,

is transportation secretary pete buttigieg. i just want to start with the path forward here, we can breathe a sigh of relief, but we're not far, 47 days is not long until we could face this again, and we just heard this morning from matt gaetz that he wants to challenge speaker mccarthy's speakership, which could put at risk his willingness to work with democrats. how concerned are you about that potential threat and what it could mean for being able to negotiate with the house? >> not only the fact of a shutdown would have been incredibly damaging but just having that threat and that chaos that goes with it dangling over us, not just dangling over the administration, but over the american people, is not helpful. we'll keep doing the work. that's what we do. we focused on getting the machinery of government to work for people. i started my week last monday in nebraska.

we're working on a shortline railroad called the cornhusker. we're bringing $15 million to help improve supply chains. and safety on the railroad. tuesday i was at denver international airport, highlighting the work that's going on there to rearrange a taxiway that will prevent those runway incursions that we have been hearing about, so this is the kind of work why we got into this line of public service to do but as the week mounted we had to devote more time preparing for the shutdown. that's time we'll never get back. for feel who plead fiscal conservative, the waste that's created by this fountain of chaos that is today's house republican caucus. does a huge cost even when they don't get their way. if they had gotten their way it would have been that much more damaging to transportation, economy. >> we're in this situation, in all likelihood in six weeks, we're right before the thanksgiving holidays, the

christmas holidays, whatever holidays people may celebrate, what's the risk of potential shutdown or a shutdown at that time could pose to air travel? >> as you might imagine i see this largely in terms of transportation, and this year we've seen some of the heaviest air travel numbers ever recorded. some are tsa screened more passengers. so american travelers are back in the air which means more than ever we need that tsa support. the idea that you're going to stop paying air traffic controllers, that you're going to stop air traffic control academy that's racing to get new staff on board, in time for the holidays, is madness. there's no such thing as a good time for a shutdown, but it's a particularly bad time. it goes to some of the infrastructure budget. a project in dallas love field there, upgrading the

instrument landing system. this could stop it in its track. nobody wants this, at least no one in the real world wants this. we need the house republicans to come to terms with each other. then work with us as by the way that happened yesterday, when the democrats ready to work the whole time with them provided the votes to make sure we avoided this shutdown and kept the government running. sooner or later this drama has to end. >> it's very destabilizing for everyone. since you're here, you're a military veteran, i have to ask you for your reaction about former president trump's implying that general mark milley should be executed. my colleague vaughn hillyard caught up with him and asked him about it. >> do you actually think he should be put to death? >> what general milley did, was

treasonous. what he said to china, he's either stupid or it's treason. any people would call it treason. >> it's alarming, not surprising. but given you served. you're a longtime public servant. what is your reaction to that? >> the level of disrespect for the american military not to mention for the general is both shocking and not shocking. look, this is part of a lifelong pattern with the former president, first displayed when he faked a disability in order to avoid going to vietnam and allowed some working class person to go in his place. and has continued ever since. made a name for himself by, you know, basically saying that he did not respect john mccain because he was a war hero and, you know, look, a lot of this is to get attention and you hesitate to reward that. on the other hand we have some boundaries that matter in this

country and one of them is that our regard for the military and our respect for the military is nonpartisan, it's nonpolitical and it's universal, and that's especially important because that's how the military does its job. every time i put on that uniform, went to work, got into a vehicle, went outside the wire that i was with men and women who were serving and supporting each other and responsive to a chain of command that wasn't about politics, that did not break down because of our political differences. this undermines that. it threatens that. it threatens that at a time when we need those institutions that are still somewhat outside of the chaos that the last administration sowed and that some extreme house republicans are sowing as we speak, we need what the military has to offer by way of nonpartisan stability more than ever. i would say general milley has been a class act in how he's

dealt with it. >> you've also run for president, you've been a very public figure for several years now, you've been a subject of threats. trump also mocked nancy pelosi's husband being attacked at his home by a man with a hammer. i just wanted to ask you, having experienced this before, how concerned you are about that and this kind of continued stoking of violence and kind of echoing of it by the former president. >> one of the marks of whether a country is a free and democratic and open society is that there is no political violence and to have this level of, whether it's joking about it, stoking it, or actually perpetrating it, which happened a few blocks from where we're sitting, on january 6th, that's an extreme concern i think for anybody who cares about the trajectory of the united states not to mention who's personally impacted by that. there's enough that public servants and people who go to work in this administration or in congress have to worry about, let alone their families. it's one thing for people who

choose to go into public service, again, if you're going into civilian public service the last thing you should have to worry about is a threat to safety. but their family, we should be able to agree on is that they're offlimits to these kind of threats. >> secretary pete buttigieg, thank you so much for joining me today. we're still waiting for president biden to speak and we'll bring that to you live as soon as he walks out. coming up next, as donald trump prepares to travel to new york for the start of civil fraud trial, the lifetime of exaggeration that led to this moment. and later, trump's former attorney michael cohen knows better than anyone what we should expect, because he's on the witness list. he joins me live in just a few minutes. we're back after this. we're back after this. loss affects your life. you miss out on important moments... you feel alone.

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government shutdown late last night. let's listen in. >> families will be cared for, tens of thousands. tens of thousands of air traffic controllers and transportation security officers are going to stay on the job, get paid preventing unnecessary delays at airports all across america, and millions of families will continue to have access to critical food and nutritious assistance, especially programs for women and infant children. and so many other programs. vital work in science and health from cancer research to food safety will continue as well as long-term disaster recovery money for communities devastated by wildfires and superstorms and droughts. social security administration will be fully funded, able to fully serve the needs of the american people, and the elderly. but fol, the truth is, we shouldn't be here in the first place.

it's time to end governing by crisis and keep your word when you give it in the congress. a few months ago, after a long negotiation between myself and the republican speaker of the house of representatives, we came to agree on a budget agreement precisely to avoid a manufactured crisis that we just witnessed. but the last few days and weeks extreme maga republicans tried to walk away from that deal, voting for deep drastic spending cuts from 30% to 80% that would have been devastating for millions of americans. they failed again. they failed again and we stopped them. but i'm under no illusions that they'll be back again. where i come from when you make a deal and you give your word you keep it. you do it. you keep it. your keep your word. i expect the republican speaker and republicans in congress to honor their word and keep the deal they made months ago when they tried to threaten us

with almost international bankruptcy by not paying our debts. comments made for fully funded services for our veterans and defense of our nation. you know, protect the -- we have transformational investments that we're already making to deal with the climate crisis. to protect medicare's ability to negotiate prescription drug prices. to negotiate lower prescription prices. we pay the highest prescription prices in the world, we're finally making progress, although the speaker and a majority of the congress have steadfastly supported ukraine to defend itself against the aggression and brutality of the russia's attack on women and children in addition to the military in ukraine, there's no ukraine funding in this agreement. despite that, i did not believe we could let millions of americans go through the pain of a government shutdown. but let's be clear, i hope my friends on the other side keep their word about support for ukraine. they said they were going to support ukraine in a separate vote, we cannot under any

circumstances to allow america's support for ukraine to be interrupted. i fully expect the speaker to keep his commitment and secure the passage and the support needed to help ukraine as they defend themselves against aggression and brutality. an overwhelming number of republicans and democrats in both the house and senate who support ukraine, let's vote on it. i want to assure our american allies and the american people and the people in ukraine that you can count on our support, we will not walk away, the vast majority of both parties, i'll say it again, support helping ukraine and the brutal aggression that has been thrust upon them by russia. stop playing games. get this done. this agreement today while averting an immediate crisis ends in, i guess it's 45 days now, already moving down, just

before thanksgiving, quite frankly i'm sick and tired, i'm sick and tired of the brinksmanship so are the american people. i've been doing this for a long time. i never quite seen a republican congress or any congress act like this. this maga republicans brought us to the brink, threatening to default on america's debt for the first time in over 200 years, and it would have caused a gigantic world crisis, both home and abroad, but we reached an agreement, we shook hands. said here's the deal. this fall the maga extremists once again brought us to the brink this time to a government shutdown and going back on the deal they made months ago not keeping their word. enough is enough is enough. this is not that complicated. the brinksmanship should end. shouldn't be another crisis.

no excuse for another crisis. consequently i strongly urge my republican friends in congress not to wait. don't waste time as you did all summer, pass a yearlong budget agreement, honor the deal we made a few months ago, we have the strongest economy in the world, today, the strongest economy in the world today. we have more to do, but we are the indispensable nation in the world. internationally and domestically in terms of our economy. let's act like it. let's act like it. stop the games. get to work. make sure the american people and our allies and friends around the world know what we're doing. thank you. >> mr. president, speaker mccarthy's speakership is now at risk should democrats vote to help him keep that job? >> i don't have a vote on that moment, i'll leave that to the leadership of the house and senate. >> what are your words to

u.s. allies and particularly president zelenskyy on continuing funding to ukraine. >> we're going to get it done. i can't believe those who voted for supporting ukraine an overwhelming majority in the house and senate, democrat and republican for pure political reasons let more people die needlessly in ukraine. >> mr. president, followup on ukraine, what's the sense of the u.s. funding may run out, how much urgency? what's the time line in the next couple of weeks and months? >> we have time not much time. there is an overwhelming sense of urgency. >> mr. president, are you going to be able to trust speaker mccarthy when the next deal comes around? >> we just made one about ukraine. so we'll find out. >> but are you worried that he's going to be forced by fellow republicans to back away from any deal he cuts with you?

>> i hope this experience for the speaker has been one of a personal revelation. i'm not being facetious. >> are you concerned about america's reputation on the world stage? given the level of brinksmanship we've seen this year. >> based on the maga republicans, yes. based on what my administration is doing, no. thank you. >> thank you, mr. president. we've been listening to president biden speaking from the white house after a shutdown was avoided yesterday. you heard him make the strong case for emergency funding for ukraine repeatedly asked about that, he called on republicans to end governing by crisis, he was sick and tired of the brinksmanship.

i have secretary buttigieg. agreed to stay with me. we heard shadows of what he said in the remarks last night in the statement, you've worked with congress, you've worked with a range of members, do you think it's possible to end this era of governing by crisis? >> i think it is. i think it has to be. one thing i'm struck by in the president's remarks, how many times he's gone back to when you make a deal you stick with the deal and you know, i've noticed many times serving under him, he believes deeply in keeping your word. and that's not just some quaint principal, that's actually a governing strategy that he's used to build the credibility that got some of the biggest achievements of this administration done. or the chips act that also was done on a bipartisan basis.

one thing i'm struck by is calling the speaker and house republicans more generally to their duty and their responsibility to do this while having at the same time no illusions about what's going on. another thing that's striking there is, it's not just about the shutdown but what they were trying to threaten a shutdown in order to get these cuts, these 30% or more cuts, we've been running the numbers on what they would have met for transportation, we would have to close air traffic control towers across the country, cargo and passenger flights. would be impacted. to take one example. another example, railroad inspections would be cut back dramatically, the same people who are quick to score partisan points off situations like what happened in east palestine,

ohio, were effectively demanding that we cut resources that are used to keep railways safe in the country. you can feel as he speaks that he knows the american people agree with him, voted to keep government going. i think that's why he was able to have that level of strength in his message just now. >> he hopes that kevin mccarthy has a personal revelation, which is a very bidenism thing to say. he also kind of encouraged members to not delay, just start acting. it doesn't have to be at the last moment. a similar statement by one of your colleagues this morning, what does that look like, the same members who are going to be voting on this in six weeks? >> you know, we're about to find out, but there's no reason to wait until the last moment, why would you wait until it's almost thanksgiving and all that travel

is about to begin and every american wants to be with their family, to allow this to come to a head yet again. i know deadlines are like that sometimes. people wait until the last minute, but it's in nobody's interest to slow-walk this and in everybody's interest, speaker mccarthy, to figure this out at the earliest possible moment. to go into this week and get something done. >> sounds like pretty good commonsense. secretary buttigieg, thank you for staying with me. coming up, donald trump's fraud trial in new york starts tomorrow. former trump lawyer michael cohen is standing by. we'll be right back. l be right. of all the lies that donald trump has told during his time in public life, and there have been many, many, none of them more prolific and more flagrant

than his lies about his personal wealth, it's been the core of not only he presented himself in the new york business world but at the core of how he's run for president multiple times. trump has long portrayed himself as a self-made billionaire, a guy who supposedly started out with virtually nothing and became the flashy owner of real estate empire, his wealth so vast he could leverage concessions from contract tors, banks and enough bravado and swagger to plaster his name on buildings and land himself his very own reality tv show. all of that made up the brand that's long been central to trump's public identity. great wealth and success. but it was all built on a myth. first of all, we've learned that trump originally lied his way on to the annual list of forbes' richest people. we learned that his net worth was greatly

overstated and that value of the trump brand was probably just a fraction of what he claimed it was and it's well documented that he was hardly a self-made billionaire he got his wealth from his father. despite those revelations, trump's self-made myth hasn't posed much of a risk to his livelihood and fortune, by and large he's gotten away with it. in fact trump has long portrayed his lies as relatively minor exaggerations, truthful hyperbole, just an innocent form of self-promotion. but this week a judge had another name for it, fraud. he was lying on official documents as well. inflating the value of his assets to banks and insurance companies and exaggerating his net worth by billions of dollars. and you don't need to be an accountant. i'm certainly not to understand

how ridiculous trump's claims were. according to the lawsuit trump's financial form showed in just four years the value of his apartment in trump tower had just magically increased by 400%, magically, magically. by 2015 he claimed it was worth a whopping $327 million. just to put this in the absurd terms that it definitely deserves that's more than any price, any person, in u.s. history has ever paid for an apartment or home anywhere in this country. trump also valued mar-a-lago as high as $740 million, which is about ten-times more than its likely value. in the ruling, the judge found that trump's financial statements, quote, clearly contain fraudulent valuations that defendants use in business and trump's arguments to the contrary were based in a fantasy world, not the real world. now, this case is still going to trial tomorrow to determine what kind of damages trump will have to pay, that's the big question.

but the judge has already struck the devastating blow that could have come out of this lawsuit, something experts call the quote corporate death penalty. he ordered that trump's business licenses be rescinded in new york state and that his real estate holdings be put in receivership. it means trump could lose control of the key properties that have defined the trump organization for decades. here's the thing, not a surprise, he's fraud. we've known that for a while. about 12 years ago, trump gave himself, gave a sworn deposition that should have raised a glaring red flag, trump claimed this. he said, quote, my net worth fluctuates. it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings. you heard that right. he claimed that his wealth was based on his feelings. wouldn't that be nice? when asked how he'd put a number on his net worth. trump said, quote, it's based on

my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked. as i say, it varies. so he admitted under oath that his numbers are a complete invention. but nobody in authority actually did anything about it until trump's former lawyer michael cohen delivered this explosive testimony in 2019. >> to your knowledge, did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues? >> yes. >> to your knowledge did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> and was that done with the president's knowledge or direction? >> everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of mr. trump. >> couldn't be more clear there, it's no surprise that michael cohen is now on the witness list for the state, a list that

also includes donald trump himself who announced late friday that he would appear in the courtroom tomorrow. joining me now is former trump attorney michael cohen who also plans to attend the trial tomorrow. michael, thank you so much for taking the time with me this afternoon. so, i just wanted to start with, you know, given how instrumental you were to this case, what do you think it will be like to see trump face to face? for the first time in five years tomorrow. >> for me i'm okay now. obviously, five years ago when i was going through my torment, it would have been very difficult, but right now, i'm looking forward to actually seeing him in the courtroom. i'd like him to be able to look me in the face to understand that he's created this and this is the first time in his entire life that he's going to be held accountable and have to deal with the repercussions of his own personal actions. >> as you said, michael, it's

the first time he's being held accountable on this front, why do you think it took so long for authorities to find that he was misrepresenting assets on financial documents? >> so, remember that the trump organization is really a glorified mom and pop-type company, you're talking about very myopic real estate branding company, very similar to the mafia, there's a code of silence so to speak, at the trump organization. so with a privately held company it's incredibly difficult to understand how they value assets, how they handle the business unless you have an insider there who's willing to give up that information, which is something that i did in seven congressional hearings, the one that you showed, 23 occasions to the d.a., to the new york attorney general, i mean, look,

let me be very clear about something, there's no recovery for donald as a result of the civil case being brought tomorrow by attorney general tish james. >> this ruling is called a corporate death sentence. you're playing a key role in this but you're also a lawyer, what it will mean for trump to lose control over several of his real estate holdings in new york, what does that actually look like? >> well, first of all, i believe that it's just more than just several, once he loses the license, in which to operate the good standing of the certificates that make up the trump corporation, not only is the main company now going into the receivership but there are hundreds of other subsidiary companies that additionally will go as part of the receivership. it's a financial catastrophe.

it's the death blow to donald trump. and during my tenure at the trump organization, i can tell you this has always been his biggest fear that he would lose money, that he would lose all of his money and that he would no longer be considered the megabillionaire that he tried to portray himself as. >> what do you expect, given this trial is out there, this is going to happen in broad daylight, how is he going to handle this in public? >> not well. again, that assumes that he actually appears tomorrow for it, knowing donald trump the way i do, i would say that there's less than a 20% chance that he actually shows up, what is he showing up for? to sit there and watch. he's not being called tomorrow.

he's going to sit and watch as the judge listens to testimony based upon the valuations were wrong and how the judge is going to determine the extent of the damages and as tish james, new york attorney general said, there's a baseline here of $250 million. she does not believe that it will be less than $250 million, i suspect it will be in excess of $600 million and one of the things that you asked before, jen, about how it affects the company. i want to be clear about something, most of the buildings, actually all of the buildings that donald trump had built here in new york city are, they are condominiums, not as if he owns that buildings, he has a management company to operate them but for the most part other than several apartments in various different buildings it's owned by individuals like you and me the same way you would own your home pursuant to what's called fees

simple absolute title holder. he has corporate spaces, garages, restaurants, he has commercial space, all of those assets including, say, trump tower, not the residential side but the commercial side that is office space, all of that will go into receivership and ultimately get liquidated in order to pay off the amounts of money that the judge will ultimately determine. >> you know him well. you just said which is pretty significant. you don't think he's going to show up. 80%. he also on the witness list. do you think, they said he would testify if he's called, do you think that's the case? >> i don't. i mean, he didn't testify before the e. jean carroll cas, though he said he looked forward to it. remember, not everything that donald trump says, in fact most

of the things that donald trump says turns out not to be true, so, do i think he wants to come in and testify? the answer is no. one of the worst things is when donald does testify the more he testifies the more he implicates himself. >> we've heard state attorney general, the unsinkable letitia james gave you a lot of credit for this suit. do think donald trump understands or thought you'd be a formidable as an enemy when you parted ways? >> one of the reasons that he asked me to come to work for him in 2006 was for exactly this reason, you know he obviously -- whoever he listened to, it would be a good idea to throw me under the bus well i think he should be on the phone with him having a conversation. one of the mistakes they made when i had to say to emily fox at vanity fair if i would take a bullet for him, but i wouldn't

take the bullet if he was the one pulling the trigger and he was the one here pulling the trigger. so, look, this is all on him, again it's the first time in his entire life that he is not only being held accountable for his dirty deeds but he's suffering the repercussions of them as well. >> very quickly, trump was actually scheduled to give a deposition on tuesday in the $500 million lawsuit he filed against you, do you think he decided to say he was attending the trial in new york in order to delay that deposition? >> listen, with donald you never know. he clearly -- it's not the first time that he's delayed that, it would be the third time and the interesting part of this scenario is that the fact that donald trump is the plaintiff, whoever heard of a defendant having to try to force a plaintiff to proceed with a lawsuit, especially one for $500 million.

he knows it's frivolous, he knows that the worst thing would be for me to depose him because as he also said, he needed todd blanche to be there to ensure that he doesn't end up implicating himself in what would normally be a crime and so he needs him there in order to assert his fifth amendment against self-incrimination. this whole case is absolutely batty and i do believe that it will ultimately be dismissed whether or not he shows up for a deposition. >> michael cohen, thank you. will look forward to hearing about it. if you do see him face to face. thank you for joining me today. we'll be right back after a quick break. be right back after quick break.

before we go today, quick reminder, this show is now on in primetime on monday nights, a great lineup of guests joining the show tomorrow. cy vance and former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, preet bharara joins us tomorrow. as donald trump fraud trial kicks off. coming up on msnbc. ♪♪ if somebody wants to make a motion against me, bring it. there has to be an adult in the room. i