from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. that does it for me today. we covered a lot, but be sure to catch the katie phang show on weekends at 8:00 a.m. right here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> claiming you have money that you do not have does not amount to the art of the deal. it's the art of the steal. >> one year after new york

attorney general -- new york's attorney general made those remarks, donald trump is in court on trial to determine what price he should pay for the massive fraud he's committed for years. >> plus, trump's increasing threat to democracy. he's attacking judges and threatening to lock up america's district attorneys. the authors of how democracies die join me. also tonight, one of the most hated members of congress, matt gaetz, just might have the power to take down kevin mccarthy unless democrats come to kevin's rescue, but will they? but we begin tonight with donald trump and new york attorney general letitia james. together for the first time in a new york city courtroom. today was the first day of the civil fraud trial over charges that trump along with his two adult sons and his business grossly inflated the value of his assets for years. attorney general james who has not -- was not arguing the case today, did have a front row seat. presiding is judge arthur

angoran, who delivered the bombshell ruling finding trump liable for fraud, caming his defenses of the real estate was based in a, quote, fantasy world. the trial is expected to last until just before christmas with six more causes of action to be determined with a focus on the intent by trump, his family members, and business associates to commit the fraud. in their opening statement, the prosecution said they have the receipts to prove that the defendants made these false declarations to intentionally defraud the banks and insurance companies. the prosecutors used some of the depositions with don jr., eric, and former trump cfo allen weisselberg to make that point. trump's lawyers are holding to their claims not only is trump nothing less than a super successful real estate tycoon, but there could not have been

any intent to defraud because there was no fraud, no false statements and no such thing as an objective valuation of a property. while trump is not expected to be present through the trial, he along with don jr., ivanka, and eric are on the witness list and we expect to see them testify at some point under oath. beyond the $250 million in penalties that new york a.g. letitia james is seeking, this trial could also likely put an end to the entire trump organization in new york. it will also completely shatter whatever remains of the myth of trump as an extremely wealthy and successful businessman, the original big lie that helped propel him into the white house in 2016. that point has not been lost on trump. who was lashing out once again at the judge and the attorney general in this case. >> we have a rogue judge. a racist attorney general who is a horror show. this judge is a politician, and he should be investigated for

what he's done. these are corrupt people we're dealing with, the most corrupt people. when you have a radical left attorney general like letitia james who is a disgrace to our country, this rogue judge, a trump hater, he's a democrat operative. this judge should be disbarred. he shouldn't be allowed to be a judge. >> that police officer is everyone right now. joining me now is nbc's adam reese in the courtroom today. tim o'brien of bloomberg opinion, and mary mccoward, former acting assistant attorney. adam, i was noting the police officer at the front who was standing in the foreground in that image. he was holding his composure very well. you could kind of almost see what was going on inside of his mind. what was going on in the courtroom? give us sort of the color of the courtroom and donald trump's demeanor. because he seems angry. >> very angry, and joy, as you

just heard, there was no love lost between donald trump and attorney general letitia james. and for that matter, judge angoran, when mr. trump came into the courtroom numerous times he totally avoided letitia james. she also avoided him. she looked away, looked to her left as he came in from the right. he seemed angry at times, agitated. he was repeatedly consulting with his attorneys on both sides of him. he looked beet red at times, heated. he was looking at a particular article when the final and first witness, rather, took the stand, he really was taking issue with a lot of what he was saying. but the opening statements were more of the same from both sides. a lot of what we have heard in all of the lead-up to this trial. the prosecution saying all of trump's properties here in new york were overvalued. we're not just talking about a couple million here or there.

we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. he overestimated his net weather anywhere between $800 and $2.2 billion. the defense came up. they said he is an incredibly successful businessman. these are trophy properties. no one got hurt, in fact, the banks made some $100 million. the insurers weren't hurt. the first witness, as i mentioned, donald bender, trump's long time accountant, he testified to a lot of detailed accounting throughout the afternoon. but at the very end of the day, the judge said you know, a lot of this 2011 valuations seem to be redundant. we could be wasting our time, at which point trump jumped up with a trouble thumbs up, and his attorney said, i couldn't agree with you more, judge. >> what a circus. let me just play, just to remind everyone why we're here. this is michael cohen, him testifying in 2019 to congress.

this is what led to this case happening at all. >> to your knowledge, did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues? >> yes. >> to your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> to your knowledge, was the president interested in reducing his local real estate tax bills? >> yes. >> how did he do that? >> what you do is deflate the value of the asset and then you put in a request to the tax department for a deduction. >> was that done with the president's knowledge or direction? >> everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of mr. trump. >> that is why we're here, tim o'brien. and that gentleman is going to be testifying, michael cohen, who was donald trump's lawyer for a long time, more than a decade.

also will be testifying as somebody that you told me the name of is i didn't watch apprentice so i didn't know who he was, allen weisselberg. i think he was on in 2006. he was trump's business guy. those are going to be two of the main witnesses besides trump's kids. and you would know probably better than anyone else, they know what he did. allen weisselberg and michael cohen both have been to prison because of donald trump. so they know what they're talking about, and weisselberg to stay out of prison has to tell the truth. your thoughts, tim? >> i'll tell you a story about allen weisselberg. i went to trump tower in 2005 when donald was asserting his holdings were $6 billion. i had sourced around him who knew his finances intimately who said it was a fraction of that amount, well less than a billion dollars. when i went to allen

weisselberg, the exercise was to prove to me it added up to $6 billion. i was there for most of the afternoon. allen was sitting across the table to me with a yellow legal pad. he gave me all the valuations. at the end, i took up my calculator and added it up. i said this only adds up to $5 billion. he looked perplexed and said i'm going to go to my office and find that other billion. that's basically how these guys rolled day to day forever. trump inflated his wealth because he is a deeply insecure person about his own business prowess and his own track record. he saw it as a scorecard that he used to compare himself to other wealthy people in the united states. that's why he always lobbied for, but it also served a business purpose, as we know. it put him in front of bankers who otherwise might not have been dealing with him. and he got away with that for a long time because i think the heed yeah treated it like a game. law enforcement didn't see any

harm in it, and bankers during a certain period of time were afraid to take him on because he would savage them in the press. ultimately, they just all washed their hands of him, because he was a serial bankruptcy artist and did not make good on a number of these loans. multi-billion dollar loans he never paid back. and walked away from him. what you're seeing in this courtroom right now is decades of this. donald trump started doing this in the 1970s. he is a 77-year-old man who is finally being held to account for behavior he got away with for a long time because no one cared until he became president. i think all of this amounts to an unraveling of his family's business root to new york. i don't think he's going to stay in business. fraud is a foregone conclusion. all we're talking about now are the kind of the scale of the

penalties that are going to be assessed against him. he is not acting like someone who thinks he has a good story to tell. he's acting like someone who is cornered and caged and afraid and lashing out at the judge and lashing out at letitia james. and i think it's because he feels he has nowhere else to go. i think the other thing to be cognizant of is he rose to fame in public attention around this idea that he was a self-made entrepreneurial genius, and then he became a television celebrity. he's a shape shifter. and he's now transitioned away from being a businessman into being the leader of a political cult. and i think when he's making these appeals in the courtroom, it's not as a businessman. he's trying to appeal to his political base because he knows he's had it in this courtroom, i think. >> you're right, the fabulism is happening even now. elena hobba got up today and again said that donald trump is

now -- he was very engaged, this is "the new york times" reporting, trump was very engaged, as one o his lawyers made her presentation. his golf course at doral and r-a-lago would sell for over a million dollars. repeating the false valuations trump submitted to the bas. trump seemed pleased, watching her intently. the judge confronts hava, saying he made no valuations but he referenced the documents that did, that said not even close to a billion dollars would any of these properties be worth. she gets up, mary, and does it again. and does it. and then he gets up and complains that he doesn't have a jury trial. the same woman, she signed the paper saying he wanted a judge only trial. his own lawyers chose to go before a judge, not a jury. now he's out here trying to make his cult following believe he's wronged because he doesn't have a jury trial. your thoughts? >> well, i guess maybe he made

that decision before the judge ruled against him. sow now he's singing a different tune. i thought it was pretty remarkable when i read about the attorney getting up and making some of the statements she made. i think she prefaced it by saying i wasn't going to hear anything, but after i heard the attorney general speaking, i decided to speak. i think you're exactly right. he's using this trial now and i think that's why he attended today, using it as part of his political campaign. he's fund-raising off it. he sent out a statement this morning attacking the attorney general, attacking the judge, attacking the political persecution, seeking assistance. and we know from all of the other cases against him, he does use these for fund-raising. he also is using, i think, the reason he was so pleased by what hava had to say was it was more of the same types of things he says outside of the courtroom. and you know, that just plays to his base and he thinks he's

running for office at this trial. i don't think we'll see him there every day. there's just too many days to come. but that seems to be what he's intending to do. it's also remarkable that while he has pending in one of his criminal cases a motion for a limited restriction on his speech because of threats that he's made against the prosecutors and the judges and witnesses that he would start the day off with so many social media posts and public statements disparaging and attacking the judge and the attorney general in this very case. this is a man who just absolutely positively 100% of the time thinks the law doesn't apply to him and he can do whatever he wants. i think tim makes a great point. it's all starting to come crashing down on him, but he has not brought himself to that reality yet, and still seems to think that if he, you know, just keeps up with the lies, the lies, the lies, that he'll get

past this. and one other comment i would make, when i think it was tim talking about the banks just kind of going along with things for a number of years, it reminds me of his supporters including those on capitol hill. right now, who have just been going along as sycophants to mr. trump, and will they, like the banks, ever decide to put some distance between themselves and trump. and that remains to be seen, but the triem sure as heck is now. >> i wouldn't count on it. tim, last question to you. here are the people who are upcoming. donald bender, cameron harris, a cpa, jeffrey mcconney, controller of the trump organization, and of course, allen weisselberg and another guy named patrick birneyy who on the list should we be looking out for their testimony? >> bender is obviously pivotal. he signed off on all of the accounting statements for years,

and jeff mcconney matters because he was one of the decision makers in the trump organization, which was neither an organization nor a very big company. it was a handful of people doing what donald trump told them to do. i think donald trump's world has one way in terms of loyalty. he expects it but he doesn't give it. when people get prosecuted and their own wellbeing is at stake and their own livelihood, you're going to start to see them understand that loyalty in donald trump's world will only get them in trouble and you might start to see people flip. >> you can just ask allen weisselberg and michael cohen how that loyalty works out for you because they're the ones who ended up doing time. thank you all very much. up next on "the reidout," if you think trump's rant outside the courtroom today sounded completely unhinged you have got to hear some of the dangerous rhetoric he was spouted in the days leading up to it. "the reidout" continues after this. about two years ago, i realized that jade was overweight.

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american people must protect each other. they must insure that they treat each other with civility and kindness, listen to opposing views. argue vociferously as they want, but refrain from violence and threats of violence.

that's the only way this democracy will survive. >> it is alarming to think ow normalized political violence has become, where you have leaders like merrick garland getting visibly emotional about the state of our democracy. at the epicenter is donald trump, a man whose war path is marked with threats of violence. here's a sampling from just this past friday. >> if you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store. shot. i will direct a completely overhauled doj to investigate every radical d.a. and a.g. in america for their illegal, racist and reverse enforcement of the law. we'll stand up to crazy nancy pelosi who ruined san francisco. how is her husband doing, by the way? anybody know? >> and the crowd goes wild. which at times is actually more

disturbing than what their dear leader says. but today, we saw a different type of rant by a very livid trump which eerily echoed what he said on january 6th. >> this is a herable thing that's happening to our country, and we have to get it straightened away. so we'll go in and see our rogue judge and listen to this man, and i think most people get it. somebody has to fight because if you don't fight, our country is just going oto go down the tube. this is election interference. this guy is a highly partisan person. and we can't let this stuff happen. >> joining me now are steve luvitsky and daniel zip lat, coauthors of how democracies die in the new book, tyranny of the minorate, why american democracy reached the breaking point. daniel, i'll start with you. the reason merrick garland was getting so emotional is he has family members who died in the

holocaust and he has a family memory, a residual memory we should all have about how these things going. donald trump i was arguing on social media, is doing what can only be described as the kind of talk we heard in the 1930s in germany and in the united states, he just does that now. to me, what is even moyer disturbing that the fact he seems to enjoy talking about people getting shot. he loves saying people are going to get shot. it's the crowd. those are lynching sounding crowds. they're excited about the idea of violence, just as excited as he is. your thoughts. >> you're absolutely right that really there's a cardinal rule of democracy, to be a politician or political leader committed to democracy, very simple set of rules. you have to accept elections win or lose. not use violence or threats to violence to gain power and hold on to powerer. the third element, it's not the crowd that was scary, it's also critical if you're a mainstream politician or party elite, you have to condemn this stuff. what is not happening is the

republican party leadership is silent in the face of these outrageous statements. we laid this out in our book. this is what ultimately gets democracy into trouble, when mainstream allies enable this kind of behavior. >> they said nothing when he was running in 2016 and encouraged his crowds to beat up protesters on site. he is doing this thing about awhere all prosecutors prosecuting him are racist in reverse. a clear signal to white americans unhappy with our state of demographics that this is about him being white and not a criminal with 91 things. the america first thing, i want to play this for you. the make america great thing, he says a thing that is not true but also revelatory. let me let you listen. >> maga, make america great again. america first. this is the greatest political institution ever in the history of our country.

there's never been a movement like this. >> yeah, there has. let's put up charles linbrg and the nazi sympathizers they were also called make america first. they were pro-nazi, pro-germany. they had no problem with what germany was doing, and they were cool with the klan. donald trump's own father was arrested after a klan riot in queens in 1927, so he has a little klan sympathy in house. donald trump saying make make first is the great movement in american history. it's ironic he in a way is referencing the 1940s movement because his movement isn't that different. your thoughts. >> you're right. we argue in our book that the principal driver of the maga movement and this authoritarian turn by a major dominant faction in the republican party is a reaction to this country's slow but very real transition to multiracial democracy. this is a big transition we're

going through in this country. there really is no case of any democracy in the world in which a once dominant ethnic majority lost not only its new marical majority but lost its dominant status in society. that's a big deal. we argue that is ultimately what is fueling the radicalization of the maga movement. >> and daniel, it's literal. because january 6th, 2021, what happened was they lost an election because 7 out of the last eight times in the popular vote, republicans have lost the election because they rely solely almost on white voters who are white and rural. whereas college educated white voters, younger white voters, and almost all minority voters, two-thirds to 80% vote the other way or in the case of african americans, 90% vote the other way. they can't win elections. dlfr, they only trust trump to save them. here is a couple poles. 71% when asked, who do they

trust the most, trump. more than they trust their own friends and family, more than they trust conservative media, more than they trust religious leaders. one more note here. the percentage of americans who believe that violence might be necessary is high, 1 in 5. your thoughts? in order for them to rule, they need violence. >> to have a functioning democracy, we need two political parties. there's no democracy that can survive for long in a stable fashion without two parties. and two political parties that can viably win majorities of the vote. currently we have a system in which that's increasingly not the case. you mentioned the recent disjunction between electoral college and popular vote. one of the things we think is driving this radicalization is that the republican party can increasingly win power without winning majorities because of the bias of our institutions, the electoral college, the senate, and judiciary. the combination of these institutions are in a sense stunting the republican party's

ability to reach out to a diverse range of voters that exist in america today and it's driving the party, leading the party to double down on this, so that's a great danger for all of us. >> steve, that's an excellent point. we're going to talk with elie mystal coming up soon and one of his proposals is get rid of the electoral college. it is a good point, no one actually is paying attention to voters in idaho because it's not a swing state. they know they're going to vote red so they don't care. arkansas, same thing, nobody is going to arkansas during the elections. could getting rid of the electoral college help deradicalize the republican party in your view? >> it would make a difference. first, it's inherently unfair in any system in the world for the loser of a presidential election to win the presidency. every other presidential democracy on the face of the earth that once had an electoral college has gotten rid of it for that reason, has adopted direct

presidential elections so it's possible for the loser to win. yeah, as daniel said, if the republicans actually the to win national majorities, if they had to win more votes than the democrats to capture the presidency to retain power, they would either have to broaden their appeal, have to avoid some of these crazy shenanigans they have engaged in, or they would lose big. right now, they can have both because they know they can win with 47%, 48% of the vote. yeah, getting rid of the electoral college ought to be a top priority for americans. a major step toward catching up to other democracies in the world. people forget, we came really close to eliminating the electoral college in 1969. both parties favored it. president nixon favored it. it had an overwhelming mujoirt in the house, a majority in the senate, but fell just short of two-thirds of the majority in the senate. it's not a crazy idea to abolish

the electoral college. every other democracy has done it. >> i would argue do that and automatic voter registration at age 18, everyone can register, would change a whole lot. thank you very much. up next, breaking news. maga republican congressman matt gaetz has just followed through on his threat to trigger a vote to take the speakership away from poor kevin mccarthy. that's next. since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom

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just moments ago, florida congressman matt gaetz did what he's been threatening to do, attempt to fire speaker kevin mccarthy from his job. >> the gentleman will state the form of his resolution. >> declaring the office of speaker of the house of representatives to be vacant. resolve that the speaker of the house is hereby declared to be vacant. >> this comes after dramatic but unsurprising reversal by speaker mccarthy this weekend who relying on democrats narrowly avoided a government shutdown. despite bipartisan support, additional aid to ukraine was not included in that bill. the short term bill passed with all but one democrat supporting it and with 90 republicans opposed, something speaker mccarthy seems to gor get when he talked to cbs on sunday.

>> most in the press probably thought we would have shut down yesterday but we were not. >> were you confident we wuwould not shut down? >> i was confident we could get something on the floor. >> but were you sure it was going to pass? >> i wasn't sure it was going to pass because the democrats tried to do everything they can not to let it pass. >> democrats were the ones who voted for this. >> but you see, kevin has to lie because if you're a republican, you can't work with the democrats for the good of the country. you get in trouble doing that. joining me is cornell belcher, democratic pollster and strategist. let's talk about this. because first of all, this seems like a bunch of bs to me. this guy, matt gaetz, has said it took him 15 times to be speaker. i'm happy to keep doing this again and again until i get it. you can't do that without democrats, right? i'm not a mathematician, but i can do math. he needs 218 votes. he's knot right now three who

are so far a yes. i have heard he might have 47. that ain't 218. how does he vacate the speakership without democrats getting onboard? >> it doesn't look like he can. there's an old adage that i know you know well. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. i'm not too sure in this case that's true for democrats. and what some of the reporting on that because matt gaetz is not your friend. some of the reporting coming out now is that, you know, what kind of deal can democrats cut to help save speaker mccarthy? i think it ultimately puts democrats in a stronger position than otherwise they would be to negotiate with the speaker in order for the speaker to stay speaker. >> it's remarkable because right, the reporting you're hearing is pelosi is saying don't help him. he's weak. leave him alone. then you have some ruminations some progressive democrats might break and say we'll support a motion to vacate in order for

something in exchange. what could matt gaetz offer? what is he going to offer? the numbers of some teenagers you want to date in florida? what does he have to offer democrats? >> he doesn't have anything to offer. but this is part and parcel of the problem, and hopefully americans are looking in on this, see these people are not serious about governing. and that this has just been one catastrophe, one crisis after another. because they're not serious about governing. you know, you reported going into the midterm election, joy, they campaigned on inflation and crime and border security. and i don't know, joy, i have not seen or heard a lot about their crime bill or their bills to tackle inflation. i have seen a lot about, you know, hunter biden. and shutting down the government. >> yeah. exactly. meanwhile, the actual thing that is happening is that speaker

mccarthy is trying to sound like a tough guy now, but there is an ethics investigation against gaetz. what are the chances, and that is for alleged maybe sexually trafficking a teenager, which he denies. may be some drug use and some nefarious things regarding drugs, et cetera. they're taking winlz winces. what are the chances he gets kicked out? >> pretty good. if you come for the king, you better get him. i think there's a -- >> even if the king is extremely weak. >> doesn't matter. he still has office powers. if nothing else, he might find himself in an office outside of the capitol. he still has power as speaker to do harm to this guy. >> put him in the basement. let's talk about somebody who actually is a king in the way, the governor of california, garvin newsome, he did make good on his promise to appoint a

black woman to the united states senate. it was a surprise. what do we make of this? laphonza butler, she was an ally and adviser to kamala harris when she was running for president. you know, he did it. but it's not barbara lee, and a lot of people are not thrilled about that. what do you make of this choice? >> well, a couple things. one, full transparency, i have worked with laphonza in the past, and i think she's extraordinary. and don't take it from me. the statement by mayor bass, this is someone who has worked for working people all her life and she supports her. she's a fabulous pick for this. but also, let's take a look at the politics. look, joy, i know a lot of people, some people have problems with it, and look, i heard congressional black caucus and they were pushing for congresswoman lee, and understandably so. but at the same time, i can't

knock gavin for this one. he picked someone who the women's community, the gay and lesbian rights community, and a large share of the african american community says you can't knock this. you can't knock this pick. at the same time, so he pulled back some of the criticism that would come from the pick. at the same time, look, it is tough for the governor, and again, i have no dealings with governor newsom, but it's tough for the governor politically to pick someone who is currently running because then he really puts his hand on the balance for someone. so i think it was a tough -- i think it was a tough call for him to politically not pick barbara lee given the pressure the congressional black caucus was putting on him, but hard to argue with someone fighting for working people's rights and women's rights all their lives. >> we just put up how much money each of the candidates in the race running have raised and

barbara lee is way behind. adam schiff, who is nancy pelosi's pick, has $32 million in the bank. laphonza butler, a labor leader, head of emily's list, meaning emily's list money would be behind her. she would be the first out lgbtq out lesbian member of the united states senate for so many reasons this was a chess move on the governor's part, no? and there's nothing stopping her from running, right? real quick. if she wants to run, she can jump in the race. >> real savvy, but at the same time when you look at her history, there's no history of her wanting to be out in front. she's a behind the scenes worker getting things done. i just don't think she wants to run for senate or she would have run for office before. >> sure. well, we found out from dianne feinstein once you get in there, you want to be there. people like being a senator. they like it when they get there. we'll see what happens.

cornell belcher, thank you very much. coming up, the supreme court is back in session with some momentous cases to decide. with conservative members' questionable ethics providing the massive elephant in the room. we'll be right back. . you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this is a bombas performance sock. for such a small item it performs big in so many ways. big on comfort. big on durability. big on breathability. bombas gives you big comfort for all your athletic pursuits.

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the first monday in october means the u.s. supreme court has begun its new term. for the first time in anyone's memory, justice clarence thomas recused himself.

it happened in an appeal from his wife ginni's email penpal, john eastman. thomas' one time clerk and former trump legal adviser and indicted coconspirator in the plot to overturn the 2020 election. a plot ginni thomas enthusiastically supported if not participated in. eastman asked the court to toss a lower court ruling allowing the house january 6th committee to see emails eastman said were protected by attorney/client privilege. the court rejected the appeal. justice thomas did not explain his reasons for recusing this time after refusing to recuse in otr cases involving january 6th including one where thomas was the lone dissenters. the justices have plenty more on their plate this term, everything from abortion rights to gun rights to first amendment protections and the power of the federal government. question is, can the court's right wing majority be trusted to rule on anything?

where the rights of the people versus the whims of big money are on the line. joining me now to answer that question is elie mystal, justice correspondent for the nation. i think i know your answer, but give it to me anyway. >> of course, the court can't be trusted. as i explained in my preview piece in the nation, this term is not about liberal versus conservatives or left versus right. this term is about conservatives fighting amongst each other about what version of pro-corporate, pro-trump conservatism is going to be shoved down the rest of our throats against our will. the big cases this term we're talking about mifepristone, the abortion pill, which is

>> as i wrote, a nice arbitrary for people, conservatives

attack. but this isn't really about us, this is about a family feud between the conservatives. >> and it's also about what a stir level of shame. i was actually surprised that clarence thomas even recused him self because, why should he? it doesn't matter. we already know they're gonna roll there can't be wealth tax. i'm already assuming there is a case in which a woman whose boyfriend threatened to kill her, whether someone who's a threat to a woman's life can get a gun, opposite what they're gonna say is, yes, thicken up as many guns as they won theyan kill as many peles they. one so they're probably going to make -- all consumption illegal. and they're always a say that the voting rights act is, dead.the civil rights act is my question is at what point does the court whose all of its legitimacy when they're essentially saying women cannot be protected from a murderous boyfriend, but if that murders boyfriend gets them pregnant, they have to give back to the child because they also are not allowed to have contraceptive? >> i thought they lost all legitimacy when they decided that guns had more rights than

women. but for the rest of the country, it takes a long time for them to realize just how corrupt the supreme court is and that's why i say to everyone watching, never let them tell you that journalism doesn't matter. never let them tell you that activism and outreach in organization doesn't matter. because i promise you, even in the small john eastman case, i promise you, clarence thomas does not recuse himself as he absolutely should've because it -- as a former clerk of his who is but buddies with his wife, jenny. i promise that the recusal doesn't happen without propublica reporting this of the past year. so even in the situation where we don't have a vote on these people, public pressure, public concern, and transparency still matter and that is my hope for -- that is my only hope with where we are with the supreme court. and that intense public scrutiny. it's gonna bring thomas back. it's gonna bring us the go back to heal. but if you can get to britain amy, brett kavanaugh, amy cohen

barrett, and make them understand that everyone is watching what they do. everybody will be watching to see if brett kavanaugh and amy cohen barrett decide to give guns to domestic abusers which will in turn lead to the murder of more women. everybody is gonna be watching that case and maybe intense public pressure and scrutiny, maybe good journalism, will help those justices c3 way clear to doing the right thing. >> john roberts get so embarrassed that he tries to hijack it in his own way. last question, i put this up with the guys who helped democracies die, and they agreed with your premise that it's in one of your nation pieces, if we just got rid of the electoral college, it actually could cool off some of the republican parties madness. because they would have to compete in the larger population, not just with their maga base. what are the chances of doing that, logistically, without getting rid of the electoral college? and this is something that even

nixon considered. >> i saw that article, by the, way under absolutely right. the only way to improve our country is to get rid of the anti-democratic forces in our country, which includes the electoral college. but unfortunately, you need -- to ratify it. there's also this idea about the national voter interstate compact, that would involve stays that compromise to hundred and 70 electoral votes agreeing to go with the electoral vote to the person who whence the popular vote. i worry about that in the face of trumpism and the legal challenges and supreme court. whether or not that holds up. but, look things that constitutional amendments, again, this is where activism, organization and journalism become important because it's a long term strategy that if you employ it i think not only helps the country, certainly helps the republican party from campaigning, as opposed to policies that most people don't care about. >> elie mystal, always a pleasure. thank you very, much we will be

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attack. let's do something about it, shall we? let's take one action to defend books from censorship. and standup for library staff, educators, writers, publishers, booksellers, and readers. no one person an organization can fight censorship alone. we all need to take action. >> that was the one and only lavar burton of rainy rainbow. and the chairman of this year's banned books week which focuses on the censorship crisis facing america. it's a topic we follow closely and we will continue to do so for all of banned books week. starting with lavar burton himself who joins me on the show tomorrow. this is the white house, inside with jen psaki -- starts now. insid with jen p>>