get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. right now on "ana cabrera reports," an unprecedented moment in u.s. history, political paralysis in the house today after the ousting of house

speaker kevin mccarthy. the chaos on capitol hill following the republican rebellion including what led to mccarthy's historic downfall. i'll talk to lawmakers from both sides of the aisle including a republican who voted mccarthy out. we'll try to answer the question ricochetting around washington, who will take mccarthy's place. ahead this hour, donald trump back in the manhattan courthouse for a third day while a new gag order changed his very public facing approach in his civil fraud trial? this morning the people's house is in a state of cays you. its work ground to a screeching halt with no house speaker and a mad scramble, who will pick up

the speaker's gavel following the historic ouster of republican kevin mccarthy. he is the first house speaker to be ousted ever in a rebellion orchestrated by members of his own party. eight republicans voting for mccarthy's removal in a revolt led by florida fire brand matt gaetz. >> you all know matt gaetz. you know it was personal. it had nothing to do about spending. nancy mace is a whole other story. let's just be honest here, i can't say this in the press here, but okay. so -- no, you'll keep it among yourselves, right? wait until my book. >> so now republican patrick mchenry, who appeared visibly angry on the floor last night is the acting speakith only lited powers. a vote to pick mccarthy's

successor, everybody on capitol hill is wondering who will it be. joining us is garrett haake, ashley etienne, and former republican representative charlie dent of pennsylvania. so garrett, let's start there on the hill. i imagine capitol hill is in a bit of shock today. what happens next, and what happens to mccarthy? >> reporter: yeah, it feels like there's a little bit of a political hangover around capitol hill this morning after what we all experienced yesterday. as for mccarthy some of his future is in his hands in the limited similar historical experience here of speakers who have been forced out of the job through one manner or another. few of them have stayed on as members of congress. he was a little bit coy last night about whether he would continue to serve in this body at all. but the immediate business of house republicans and then

eventually the full house will be picking the new speaker. really nothing else can happen until that's done. if you're lookingt the republican conference, you start at the leadership team at the top. steve scalise is thrent number two. he's probably the odds on favorite if he chooses to pursue it. tom emmer also has some structure around him if he wants to go for it. he's been sort of backing up scalise at least publicly. the other name i've heard discussed is jim jordan, who's the chairman of the judiciary committee, also heavily involved in the oversight. popular on the far right. all of these members are going to have the same math problem that kevin mccarthy did finding a way to 218 votes mollifying the more institutionalist members who are upset about the way mccarthy was treated and winning over some of those harder right folks who were ready to throw mccarthy out and are probably just as ready to throw out the next speaker depending on how he or she behaves in that job.

>> no speaker, no votes, no clear path forward. what's your reaction to the level of dysfunction we're seeing in your party right now? >> well, they've taken the fun out of dysfunction, that's all i can say. this is not unexpected. i thought in many ways that this outcome was inevitable given what kevin mccarthy had to do to become speaker. he made so many concessions. he appeased these guys on the motion to vacate, just one member could bring the motion, putting some of these rabble-rousers on the rules committee, which is very big deal, on the appropriations committee, then walking away from a budget agreement that he had negotiated to accommodate the hard-liners, to the impeachment inquiry, which he was -- that was a sop to the hard-liners. none of it mattered. they still took him down. >> he was always trying to make deals but he was really making nobody happy. >> the problem was he was making deals with the wrong people. he should have been cutting deals with the democrats all along and just tried to marginalize that hard line nihilist faction. it's not a very big group that's

trying to dictate outcomes all of the time for a majority that want something different. i think that was his fundamental error by trying to accommodate, you know, this just chose that appeasement really doesn't work and he learned the hard way. >> and so ashley, we're learning republicans have now kicked out nancy pelosi and rep steny hoyer from their work spaces on capitol hill. it's unclear if this decision was made by mccarthy before he was ousted or the new speaker pro tem but what do you make of republicans now blaming democrats for this? >> it's actually petty, and it's small, especially in the face of all the other challenges we're dealing with as a nation which our elected leadership be focused on. here's the thing that i think is sad about this is mccarthy -- we knew this was inevitable, but he made a couple of key mistakes that i think, what warmed my heart this week is republicans complimenting how effective

speaker pelosi is. here's a couple of things that i saw when i worked for her that mccarthy made some key mistakes on. one, he leveraged away his -- all of his -- he negotiated away all of his leverage on the front end, right? we noticed that from the beginning. the second thing is that he gave the extremist impeachment inquiry with no guarantees that they would vote to keep the government open and no guarantees that they would not move to vacate the seat. the third thing is he did not leverage those moderate republican members, those 10 to 15 to 18 members that are in biden's seats that actually their jobs are on the line. he did not leverage them to push back on the extremists. that's what pelosi used to do so effectively well, so rather than trying to take her out of her office, they should be taking notes from speaker pelosi, especially who's up next. >> yeah, i'll note nancy pelosi was speaker of the house with the exact same margins as kevin mccarthy for at least part of her tenure, and she ended up serving for close to 3,000 days as speaker, kevin mccarthy ended up serving for less than 300.

congressman, what are you hearing? go ahead. >> she actually won the house twice, right? the most important thing is keeping and winning the house, right? and all of these antics to your point creates an opportunity for democrats to really brand the republican congress as -- in total disarray, total dysfunction and really more focused on and obsessed with retribution than they are with the issues americans are facing. they need to go into the district and make that case. >> what's going to happen now, they have to let off some steam. they're going to try to elect a speaker. i don't know if they're going to be able to do this by next week. >> that's what i was going to ask, i mean, who can effectively lead your party and be a consensus pick. >> i don't know that there is a consensus pick right now, maybe it's scalise. the next speaker is going to

have the exact same problems that mccarthy had. these hard-liners are making demands. they're going to make demands of the next speaker. we'll find out, there's going to be another bipartisan agreement sometime around november 17th to keep the government open again. they'll have to cut the same type of deal that mccarthy cut and have to figure out the ukraine issue as well. they're going to have to do that. the next speaker, that's going to come right to him or her. that's the first thing they're going to do. will these hard-liners be as critical and harsh on the next speaker as they were on mccarthy for cutting a bipartisan deal on the budget and then a bipartisan deal on the stopgap continuing resolution. they're going to have to continue to do this. everybody knows it. the next speaker may just have to recognize that he may need -- or she, they may need some kind government shared power arrangement sohat they can function because that's what's been happening, all the things that must happen t kp the country from defa, keep the government funded, they need a bipartisan agreement. >> and i think a lot of americans would appreciate y saying that where it's like --

>> but they need it. >> how can it just be one party trying to power their way through and bulldoze their own personal agendas. one could argue that democrats at least knew what they had with mccarthy. what if it's somebody who's more extreme? >> i think you're absolutely right. the situation doesn't get any better for the nation nor for the gop conference, right? the options don't get any better. here's the thing i think we're missing, wherein we're focused on mccarthy loing the seat and who's up next. this is a big opportunity for mr. jeffreys to demonstrate some leadership. he might have to commit some votes to the republican party. if i'm him i'm thinking about what do i want for those votes, is it the ukraine funding? is it pull down the impeachment inquiry? what is it that the democrats want potentially for their votes, that may be where this thing ends up and lands. >> garrett haake, matt gaetz of

course was the one who started this all. most of his party is not happy with him. what does his future look like there on the hill? >> that's a great question. he was a political loner before this vote. i suspect he'll be even more of one going forward. a lot of house republicans, the 200 or so who backed mccarthy are furious with gaetz for going down this road. i don't think he's going to be censured or kicked off committees or any kind of formal punishment from the house republican conference for the same reasons we've all been outlining. they need his vote as narrowly divided as this conference is, booting gaetz, making him somehow more intractable problem for leadership on the votes that will come up in the next few weeks including keeping the government open doesn't serve anyone's needs. now, gaetz, it's been discussed the possibility that he might want to run for florida governor in the future. i can imagine this scenario in which he's encouraged to start that process even earlier than he would have wanted. you know, he's going to be here

and he's going to continue to i think be a thorn in the side of whomever emerges from this next speaker's race. >> keep us posted with any new developments from the hill. garrett hill, thank you, our thanks to charlie dent and ashley etienne, appreciate the conversation, guys. joining us now is one of the republicans who voted to oust mccarthy, congressman bob good of virginia. thanks for taking the time. you have made it very clear you aren't a fan of kevin mccarthy. you voted against him really from day one. so who do you think should replace him? >> had some faces on the screen a moment ago. i think there's a few different candidates who i think would be strongly qualified, have the right kind of qualities that we need in a leader, and frankly, this is a win for the american people. if you don't agree with the biden pelosi schumer policies under which the american people are suffering and for which they elect add house majority to fight those policies. if you're concerned about 33 trillion national debt,

$2 trillion deficit this year, a weaponized federal government against its citizens, an open border, then you wanted a true fighter for the policies that the republicans claim they stand for. and while most members of congress are risk averse and kind of put self-ambition and self-preservation at the forefront, it takes courage to fight for true change, and you saw that on display yesterday, you saw that on display in january. we held accountable the speaker. the american people didn't give the house majority to the republicans for us to cave as we did this past saturday with the continued resolution are voted 209-1 by democrats in the house. >> a lot i want to follow up on. back to my original question, who do you think it should be? you said there are a lot of people you see in the faces we put up. name names, who do you want to be speaker and what are the specific or ideal qualities you think the next speaker should have? >> i appreciate for entertainment purposes that you'd like me to name someone,

but i'm not going to disclose my hand, i'm not going to show my hand. there are several who i think would be good. we will be vetting those candidates, meeting with those candidates, asking them questions, asking them about what they'll do differently. what their commitments will be, and we'll be doing that together as a body. no one of us can pick a speaker. a handful of us can block things in a narrow majority, but the good news is we will own together whoever emerges as speaker after tuesday's candidate forum as we vote that person in perhaps as early as wednesday. they will have to get 218 votes and we will have a vested interest in their success because the country needs them to be successful but all of us members, 218 out of 221 for that person to advance as speaker. >> you were one of the handful of republicans who voted with democrats. you were the outsider within your own party making this vote to oust speaker mccarthy. what makes you think changing just one person at the top will change the dynamics in washington? democrats control the senate and

the white house. why do you think losing this one guy will give you what you want? >> well, the speaker has tremendous power in the house, and we realize the republicans aren't going to get everything they want in divided government, but we can get something. we can fight for something besides becoming speaker, and you know, what we can't surrender and get rolled like we did in the failed responsibility act where we passed an unlimited increase of the debt ceiling where one of our negotiators went into the negotiation with the president basically associating himself with the president's position of not having spending cuts connected to the debt ceiling increase. how in the world were we going to negotiate or leverage for spending cuts if that was our position. of course we didn't do that. we didn't have any significant spending reforms or significant spending cuts. we had an unlimited increase to the debt ceiling that democrats gladly voted for overwhelmingly in the senate. that was a surrender. >> i hear what you're saying -- >> we can't have a speaker who surrenders. we need a speaker that fights and negotiates and uses the leverage we have as the house majority.

>> i hear what you're saying and how important it is to rein in spending in your mind but if there's no speaker and no vote -- >> it's not in my mind. >> i hear you. >> it's not in anybody's mind. it is factual reality. >> and i let you talk about that specifically for a while here, but right now we're in this state of play where there's no speaker or votes for at least a week, how does anything get done? >> what do you think the american people are concerned about that congress isn't going to do to them in the next week or two. what did you think was going to happen in the next week or two that the american people are going to say the house majority it's been doing all these courageous tough things and now they're not going to do it for a week or two. they're not going to send bills over to the senate. the senate's not going to pass, the president's not going to sign. we've got to keep the status quo going, the status quo that's failing the american people. we've got to keep the open border policies, the reckless spending, we got to keep that

going. we can't disrupt it for a week or two because congress is doing such a great job. >> you know that things don't move quickly in washington, just the logistics of getting through a bill that would avoid another government shutdown could take some time and the shutdown deadline at this point is november 17th. that's in a matter of weeks. you will still in the majority party but with no votes and no speaker. how do you respond to those who question whether this is responsible governing? >> i agree with you to a point. we should have passed our spending bills as speaker mccarthy committed we would pass 12 or at least bring them to the floor for a vote, that was a reflection of the failure of the past and a continuation of that. that's one of the reasons why he is no longer speaker. we should have done that. we should have broken the cycle. we should have broken the trend, and we should have done that. we should have sent the senate the most conservative bills we could send with 218 votes. we didn't do that. >> but the most conservative bills in the senate would not get through -- senate that is majority democrat and a white house -- >> we didn't do that and that's

why we've got to have a new speaker. >> i wanted to make that point, you're saying you could get through the most conservative bills possible with a house majority republicans but that's not going to get anything done for the american people when you have divided government, when you have democrats in the majority in the senate and a democratic president, so it's not like republicans are -- mandate in washington right now. >> the the greatest reflection of the american people is the house, it's not the senate, which has a third of their members up every two years. it's not proportional by population. it's the house that's a direct reflection of where the people are from a population standpoint. the most recent federal election, republicans were given the house majority for a reason. that was to reverse the biden pelosi schumer policies that are in place right now. you're right, the senate has passed no bills, zero. the house has at least passed four bills. both sides should have passed all 12, and we should be in a conference committee negotiating with some give and take, and yes it's going to be tough. >> give and take, key words

there. >> but it shouldn't be a cave by republicans once again to just do what the democrats want to do, and that's what the continuing resolution was and that's the track we were on whether you have ood cr we wouldn't pass our bills this month and then we'd have an omnibus in december and further exacerbate the problems destroying this country. >> i appreciate your thoughts, thanks for sharing your perspective with us. >> thank you, i appreciate you having me. >> when we're back in 60 seconds, we'll get reaction to the historic ouster of the republican house speaker from the other side of the aisle, congressman dan goldman of new york will join us to talk about his party's strategy yesterday and beyond. plus, who wants to be house speaker? the potential successors being thrown around for what's been called the worst job in washington. and layer did former president donald trump play a role in mccarthy's downfall? hy'? [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing

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this morning house democrats are beginning to plot their next steps after the historic ouster of kevin mccarthy as house speaker. democrats in lockstep opting not to save mccarthy from a revolt in his own party. how will the left prepare for a new leader from the sidelines. let's bring in new york congressman dan goldman. any regrets about democrats not saving mccarthy? >> i think it's the wrong question to be asking. >> how do you answer that question? >> the answer is no, we have no regrets. kevin mccarthy is a failed speaker. he did absolutely nothing to reach across the aisle in any way, shape, or form, even though as you pointed out in the last segment there is divided government, even when he reached a deal on top line appropriations numbers, he then went back against that deal in passing all of these individual appropriations bills. he has done absolutely nothing for the american people.

he is trying to eliminate access to abortion. he is discriminating against the lgbtq community. he is cutting funding that americans need across the board, and we are unified because we want to help the american people, but we are in the minority. we don't have control, and they did absolutely nothing to reach across the aisle. they are captive to donald trump and the extreme maga wing, who has now revolted because even just passing a continuing resolution is too much for them. keeping the government open is insufficient for this extremist wing, so we are unified. we are ready to govern. we are ready to work for the american people, and the republicans need to work out their own civil war and actually put the american people first. >> so do democrats have a plan for what or who comes next? >> it's not our job at this point to figure out -- >> but you have to work with your republican colleagues eventually. >> no, they have to work with

us, and that's the critical difference here. they're in the majority, they control everything. it's not the senate where the minority has a lot more power. they put whatever bills they want on the floor. if they are unified, they can pass whatever they want. it is their job to come and work with us in a bipartisan way to find solutions for the american people. it is their job to pick a speaker of the house. if they cannot do that, they are unable to govern, and they should not be in the majority. we are ready to put hakeem jeffries as the speaker of the house. we are uniied behind him. he is focused on helping the american people, not on this politics. not on these culture wars. not on cutting essential funding for hundreds of millions of americans. that's what we stand for and we stand united for that. >> last night mccarthy blamed speaker emerita pelosi and democrats for his removal. i want to get your reaction. >> i think today was a political

decision by the democrats, and i think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution. they just started removing people from committee, they just started doing the other things. my fear is the institution fell today. >> what do you say to that? >> i think it's absolutely preposterous. the people who are hurting the institution are the republicans who allowed one person to vacate the speaker and the eight people in that party who voted to do that. if they think that the institution is hurt by vacating the speaker, they ought to look inside their own house. those republicans were removed from committees because they either threatened other members or exhibited incredibly racist and discriminatory behavior. they then turned around and retaliated against democratic members of our committees and removed three of them who had done nothing wrong. and so this is constantly the democrats trying to be held to a

higher standard than the republicans as if we should just do the right thing even though they don't make a single overture to us. if they wanted our help because they believe that the institution should be saved, kevin mccarthy should have reached out to us and tried to work bipartisanly. he never did that, not even yesterday as he got booted from the speaker as the first person ever in humiliating fashion, he never once reached out to us. if you want our support, you got to engage with us. we're ready to work. >> somebody who has engaged with democrats, liz cheney is no longer in the house, so i want to ask you about this reporting from abc news that you spoke with liz cheney who reportedly agreed with you that mccarthy threatened democracy. what can you tell us about that? and do any of your other republican colleagues in the house currently share that opinion? >> well, liz cheney who, you know, i've built a nice relationship with because we both care very much about our

democracy reached out to me and just relayed a very simple message, which is this is just not about what concessions the democrats might be able to get. kevin mccarthy has been complicit in donald trump's attack and subversion on our democracy. he has kissed the ring of donald trump. he pulled out the rug from a 9/11 commission because donald trump said that. he started an impeachment inquiry because donald trump wanted him to. he is wholly-owned by donald trump, and that is a threat to democracy. and liz cheney wanted to make sure that i and all of my colleagues in the democratic party considered that in addition to what has happened during the nine months and we absolutely agree with her, and that was certainly part of the calculation. >> congressman, we've also been reporting that pelosi and hoyer have been kicked out of their capitol office work spaces in the last 24 hours. your reaction to that? >> it's petty, childish

behavior, and it is, again, failing to take responsibility for their own inability to govern. if you want to lash out at speaker pelosi or steny hoyer and take away their offices, which is a custom that speaker pelosi gave to the house leadership when she took over, you're just being petty and petulant, and it just shows their inability to take responsibility and accountability for their failure to govern in the house of representatives. >> democratic congressman dan goldman of new york, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us. we'll be watching to see what's next and how this resolves itself. thank you. >> thank you. up next here on "ana cabrera reports," the top contenders for the speaker's gavel, and after what we just witnessed who even wants the job. first, republican senator john kennedy's advice to his house colleagues. >> the american people expect us

to govern, and in order to govern, you have to have leadership. i'd also advise all my house colleagues to be sure and take their meds. their meds the first inkling that something was wrong was i started to notice that i couldn't do things without losing my breath. i couldn't make it through the airport, and every like 20 or 30 yards i had to sit down and get my breath. every physical exertion seemed to exhaust me. and finally, i went to the hospital where i was diagnosed with afib. when i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor and told them what was happening. instead, i tried to let it pass. if you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, you should talk to your doctor. afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times

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today it looks like the antithesis of a dream job, but to kevin mccarthy being speaker of house was his dream job. it took him5 tries to get it and ten months to lose it. and now a list of potential successors is starting to materialize with the likes of majority leader steve scalise and majority whip tom emmer being floated, but given what's happened to mccarynd even those before him like john boehner and paul ryan, is the job worth the headache? joining us now nbc news senior political reporter sahil kapur, cofounder of "punchbowl news" anna palmer, and committee

spokesperson for republicans kurt bardella. sahil, last night you talked about witnessing this exchange between senators tim kaine and lindsey graham, one democrat, one republican, the senators talking amongst themselves. kaine says to graham, quote, hey, lindsey, you know you don't have to be a member of the house to be chosen speaker. graham responds, yeah, but you got to be sane, and i'm sane enough to say no. so there are real reasons not to want this job. talk about that and who is in the mix? >> that's right, ana, it's a very fluid situation right now. there has been no succession plan in the event kevin mccarthy was toppled as he was yesterday, and there's no official roster of candidates running yet. republicans are expected to discuss that at a forum next week. there are a number of names in the mix. let's put that visual back up. three categories.se down into there are the leadership successors who are on kevin mccarthy's team. stevelise is currently the

next in line. then there's tom emmer, who is the whip, the number two and number three the problem that they will have is that the hd-liners who wanted to remove mccarthy, are they going to want to support someone who was very supportive of the way mccarthyhe house, who believe he did a good job. beyond that, you've got the sort of the center right institutionalists, tom cole, the rules committee chairman, ally, a policy guy who dealt with the so-called five mies in the house in negotiating the debt limit deal. they view him as a competent person, patrick chenry, and then you've got jim jordan, and kevin hern, republican study committee chairman. the qstion they're going to have is are theyoi to get support when 96% of them supported kevin mccarthy. the real question these guys have is who's going to be able to do better.

>> kurt, majority whip has pointed to steve scalise to be under the winner. scalise is closely linked to mccarthy. what do you see is the likelihood the next speaker would be someone currently in republican leadership? >> well, i mean, the one benefit that we have when it comes to existing republican leadership and punch bowl really dissected this is the operational side of counting votes. of knowing all the pressure points of members, of having a leadership staff with that continuity, that institutional experience. when it comes to these things, this is very inside baseball, having that type of dynamic and talent already able to navigate the internal conference dynamics is a leg up for someone like steve scalise who's been in leadership for a very long time. now, i think anybody who is going to try to take this job on. if the rules stay as they are, if one member can trigger a motion to vacate, you might as

well look at this job as a temp job, whether it's in less than 45 days when the next round of budget talks happen, whether it's a debt ceiling limit later on, whether it's any number of things that happen where someone's going to throw a temper tantrum, they're going to want to hold the entire institution hostage, if you don't insist on that kind of a rule change to prevent this from happening over and over again, it's just a temp job. >> i do wonder how much sway will these eight defectors have, even if the rest of the party rallies around a candidate, will they? >> absolutely. i mean, listen, the numbers don't lie. they have to get to 218, and that's going to be a heavy lift for any member, whether they're on the conservative side, whether you're jim jordan or steve scalise or you're somebody who isn't quite as high profile or making calls at this point. so going to be a very tough hurdle for whoever ends up actually getting into that race. i do believe steve scalise, you know, has that leg up for all of the reasons that were just stated, but he's going to have to differentiate himself from

kevin mccarthy and jim jordan continuing to kind of inch closer to saying, you know, he's been asked to run, certainly going to be -- that would be a very interesting faceoff between jordan and scalise. >> in fact, we just confirmed, literally just a minute ago that congressman jim jordan is now saying, yes, he is going to run for speaker. kurt, he's got such a big role, right, on the judiciary, working with oversight, which you know so well. what do you make of him running? >> yeah, i mean, it's funny because going back to the tea party days back when i was working on capitol hill, jim jordan was always the guy that the conservatives wanted to go up against the establishment leaders, against the paul ryans. jordan always said i'm happy doing what i'm doing. he was happening doing the judiciary committee when he got behind mccarthy, but this might be his time. i mean, he has always been on every short list of people who could potentially viably run for speaker when there was a

disruption in leadership, and now this opportunity has presented itself, and he has a lot of credibility with the right. the right wing media sphere will love the idea of a speaker jim jordan, they will definitely get mind him and promote him because they love the work he's done at the judiciary and oversight committee. for almost a decade, jim jordan more than any member of congress has been the face of gop oversight investigations whether it's against hillary clinton and benghazi or whether it's now with joe biden and hunter biden stuff, he has established a lot of credibility and visibility in that space. >> he is such a polarizing figure more broadly when it comes to having to work with democrats in order to get anything done given its divided government right now, so i mean, is jim jordan going to work with democrats, anna? >> i think that it's hard to see that. i think he's going to have to also think how he can work with the moderate flank in his own party. there's a lot of republicans that are very frustrated with these kind of freedom caucus

members who forced the ouster of mccarthy, and i'm not quite sure how he would assuage their concerns that he's going to be leading this any differently. so that's going to be, i think his first big test. yes, of course the right flank will be there for him. that's his base, the under girding of his whole reason to run for speaker, but can he come up with a coalition. that's what this is. running for speaker or running for leadership, it is coalition management, and it's trying to understand how you're going to peel off different factions of the conference that he has so far not made many inroads with. >> anna palmer and kurt bardella and sahil kapur, thank you all. up next here on "ana cabrera reports," the other big stories we're following including day three of donald trump's civil fraud trial. how could a new partial gag order impact the case? buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?!

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more coverage from capitol hill in just a few minutes. we're also following breaking news out of new york city. donald trump is back in court for the third day of his civil fraud trial, but this time he is under a gag order. the judge in this case ordering trump not to speak publicly about his staff and threatening him with fines if he does. this after trump posted a photo of the judge's clerk on social media posing at an event with senate majority leader chuck schumer. our lindsey reiser is outside the courthouse. trump's gotten in trouble for

talking about cases before, but this goes further than a warning. what exactly are the rules now and what happens if he breaks them? >> reporter: right, ana, the judge saying he doesn't tolerate any attacks against members of his staff. said yesterday consider this a gag order from here on out. he said there will be sanctions if that's violated. trump came in today, the attorney general's also insides court, and he didn't attack members of his staff but he once again attacked the attorney general calling her a political animal. he's called her derogatory terms in the past, just as recent as yesterday. also attacking the process. ana, i want to fact check a few things the president said. he said he's not entitled to a jury trial under this statute. that language isn't in the statute. neither side requested a jury trial. the former president is saying this son-in-law because he's leading joe biden. the attorney general's office started investigating this in 2019, and he also said that there were no defaults.

everybody was happy, everybody got their money, in this case, ana, the attorney general doesn't have to prove intent to defraud and also doesn't have to prove there are any victims. >> briefly, what are we expecting to see in court today? >> well, the former president, former accountant is back on the stand, cross examination has begun today. the crux of the case are these financial statements the attorney general's office says are over inflated. he says based on information the trump team gave him. in cross examination yesterday we heard the former president's attorney saying you draft ds these documents. you were the ones responsible for these. he said, no, it was the trump team responsible for giving me accurate information. we have other breaking news we're following right now, what could be the largest health care strike in u.s. history. more than 75,000 kaiser permanente workers including nurses, home health aides, x-ray techs have walked off the job in multiple states after they

failed to reach a new contract by the deadline, which was about an hour ago. kaiser employees are asking for raises and a resolution to some major staffing shortages that have been left in the wake of the pandemic. kaiser says it will bring in temporary workers in its hospitals and ers will remain open during this strike. up next on "ana cabrera reports," chaos on capitol hill spilling onto the campaign trail. what could kevin mccarthy's ouster by his party mean for the republicans who want to be president. plus, i'll talk with historian michael beschloss about what all this says about this era of american politics. . i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? (sean) no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. (jason) maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan -- switch to verizon and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) what!? (jason) yup, and on an amazing network (sean) and i don't have to ruin anymore birthday parties! (jason) yeah, that ship has sailed...

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[ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. back in washington, republicans have one week to try to pick a new leader, but kevin mccarthy's ouster is sending shock waves across the country and putting all the 2024 gop candidates on the spot. >> i stand with speaker mccarthy. look, it's a very tough job. >> i was one of the guys that opposed mccarthy before it was cool. you know, now you're in a situation where they haven't produced results, and that's just the reality. >> the point of removing the house speaker was to sow chaos, but the real question to ask -- let's get to the bottom of it -- is whether chaos is really such a bad thing. >> let me say that chaos is never america's friend. >> it's not helpful and

certainly doesn't help us focus on the issues that everyday voters care about. >> so joining us this morning, democratic strategist basil smikle and republican strategist susan del percio. we just heard a real range of responses from the republican candidates there, some very strongly defending mccarthy, others very critical of him. here's how "the wall street journal" editorial board put it, a band of eight republicans succeed instead ousting kevin mccarthy a hse speaker on tuesday, and we trusthere happy. they now have the chaos they wanted. though it isn't clear what else they hope to achieve. their clever plan seems to be to cut off their own heads. susan, how do the presidential candidates who want to lead this party answer to that? >> well, so far they haven't done it very well. they need to really explain to the american public the importance of governance and what they're willing to do now. they don't want to talk about it because it talks about -- you need to talk about compromise, and that's something they're afraid to talk about now, but it

is the key to moving our government forward, and you know, that wall street editorial was something, and it was all spot on because the problem is those eight -- and there's a few more -- they really don't care about power or being in the majority. they like chaos. it doesn't matter where they're sitting. they just want the chaos. >> and so when you look at not only the white house race but really you think about control of both chambers in the next election, that's a big deal, right, basil? is the message here that voters, americans, can't trust republicans to govern given the chaos? >> well, you don't have to take a democrat's word for it. listen to what republican members of the house who were in that meeting yesterday said. representative comer said they have no plan. representative davidson, we have no path forward for governance. they are literally saying this after they ousted their incumbent speaker, and what's interesting from a sort of larger electoral standpoint,

mccarthy was a massive fundraiser for these republican candidates. there were 18 republican members that represent biden won seats. six of them are in new york. that's mccarthy's influence in republican politics. so when you start to peel the layers back and realize that what they did was actually throw out a guy who actually helped them get to the majority in the first place without a plan forward, that to me says to susan's point, they have no plan for governance. they don't understand how to do it, and then even in asking democrats to help them out shows you the kind of desperation that we're talking about. >> i mean, on one hand you're hearing from republicans like we don't like, we don't want to work with democrats at all. we have the majority in the house. we need to do this amongst each other but won't even compromise within their own caucus, susan. do you think that the demands, the desires of the eight republicans who voted to oust speaker mccarthy are realistic

in any way? will they get what they want in a new speaker? >> absolutely not. they cannot be moved off of this position. and let's be clear. the only member -- the member of congress with the most votes for speaker is actually hakeem jeffries. his whole conference is really behind him. and that was made clear. these eight were not -- will not be able to support anyone from their caucus. it just -- they would rather have chaos, again. what probably needs to happen and is unlikely is that you need to have about 100 members from each side, from the problem solvers caucus, those moderates, say, let's come up with a plan because you're going to have to give democrats something. democrats are not going to go along for nothing. >> what do you think the voters want though? if republicans think that it is in their best interest to do what they have done in order to keep power in the house, is this going to get them that? >> this would and potentially if

they did a power-sharing agreement, think about all the bipartisan legislation they got, that deal would have equal number of ds and rs on every committee but a republican chairing every committee and a shared resource. now, that's a good get from the democrats. i don't know why they wouldn't take -- why they would take any less than that. maybe you can think of something. >> before you weigh in, i want to make sure we get to this too. this is interesting at least two republican members of congress and we're talking about marjorie taylor greene say they're going to back trump for speaker. he did weigh in on that this morning. take a listen. >> would you take the job? >> people asked me about it. i'm focused, i'm sure it will be too much. i'm leading by 50 points for president. my focus is on that. if i could help them during the

process, i would do it. >> so, the speaker of the house does not have to be a member of congress. does this have any legs? >> no. it doesn't have any legs and i would say if anything even remotely similar to what donald trump or anybody else that actually ascends to that position or even in the running, i think you would see a mass exodus from the house by republicans. it is just a ridiculous statement for anybody to sort of even float that. but it really does show you how desperate the republicans are. without a plan, without real succession plan for leadership, they're in a situation where i don't see how they retain majority in the house or the senate. whatever chance they have for that in 2024. >> thank you, both. good to see you. up next on "ana cabrera reports," kevin mccarthy's removal splashed across the front pages. i'll talk with historian michael

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with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. you know, president abraham lincoln once said i'm an optimist because i don't see any other way. >> that was former house speaker kevin mccarthy last night invoking abraham lincoln after a historic day in washington. the news reflected in papers across the country this morning.

first time ever in u.s. history that a house speaker has been removed. joining us now nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. michael, so good to see you. we just saw mccarthy arriving back on the hill this morning, he was asked how he's feeling, he said great, i'm sure that was just a quick answer, didn't want to deal with it. we have never seen this sort of ouster before. what are the history books going to say about this moment and this era of politics? >> i think when we boil it all down, ana, and everyone has to be an optimist, you know, if you know american history. we usually surmount crisis. that having been said, what has been different about these last nine months is one of the weakest speakers in history, kevin mccarthy, plus a speaker who was under the spell of donald trump, an ex-president running for president again. if donald trump did not have so much influence with kevin mccarthy, do we think there

would have been an impeachment investigation against joseph biden? do we think there would have been such, you know, disdance about policy on ukraine? for next 13 months at least, we're talking about donald trump possibly becoming speaker of the house, he does need to be. whoever is the next speaker is going to be on the telephone to donald trump all the time during that period. and so the result is going to be that anyone who is not like the kind of conflict we have seen over the last nine months, anyone who is worried about, for instance, ukraine aid, if you have donald trump to some extent behind the scenes calling the shots, this is going to be a roller coaster for the next 19 months with no seat belts. >> just before the 2010 election, three house republicans, paul ryan, eric cantor and kevin mccarthy, published a book they hoped would plant a flag for the future of their party. "the young guns" is the name of that book.

what happened to the, quote, new generation of conservative leaders and where do they fit now in, you know, maybe the history of the republican party as you point out where we are, this is the trump party? >> their followers went somewhere else because of gerrymandering and right wing candidates who primaried others who were more centrist in republican districts, this is a very extreme congress. plus, donald trump. that book was published at the time that mitt romney was nominated for president. well, donald trump is a republican nominee twice and perhaps three times, that's a very different world we're living in. >> how do you think history will remember mccarthy specifically and his brief tenure? >> as someone who never should have taken this job. if he were accepting a job where basically one or two of your colleagues can treat it like the gong show and say we don't like what you're doing and you're gone, that is not a job that anyone should have ever accepted. and i think mccarthy was so enchanted by the idea of being

speaker and having his portrait on the wall and if he lobbies on k street in d.c. in the future, everyone is going to call him mr. speaker, the penalty for that was nine very rocky months. i think we'll see another year very much like that. >> michael beschloss, thanks for your wisdom and sharing your perspective with us. >> pleasure always. thank you, ana. >> that does it for us today. thanks for joining us. we'll see you back here tomorrow, same time, same place. until then, i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific, i'm jose diaz-balart. breaking just moments ago, a top house republican just confirmed he's running for house speaker. we'll tell you who and what other names are being floated as permanent replacement. we're following history in the senate.