he's become. what's the jury look like? >> reporter: the jury is mostly women, nine women out of 12. ranges from retired nurses, to train conductors and they picked that this morning. the questions ranged from things like have you heard of this case, do you have opinions on cryptocurrency, and what are your thoughts on adhd which sam bankman-fried has. his recommendation was electric quarantine, can't read any newspapers around us. >> kate rooney, thank you for that. that is going to do it this hour. joining us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday from 1:00 to 3 eastern right here on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. ♪♪ good to be with you, i'm katy tur. i keep turning on my tv at night hoping this has all just been an elaborate lead up to an infomercial. can't get a wing of your party

in check, can't pass legislation, can't keep a speaker, there's got to be a better way. except it isn't an infomercial and there doesn't seem to be a better way because house republicans have a governing majority so narrow, it is doubtful there's anyone in the gop who can get away with disregarding the most extreme elements of the party. in other words, someone who can pass legislation without being held hostage by the likes of matt gaetz. a budget, which is coming due in a quick 31 working days. there is, of course, one option. a coalition government, led by someone dedicated to working with the middle. someone who can get votes from both parties, thereby neutering people like matt gaetz. former speaker kevin mccarthy sort of did that with the debt ceiling. then again over the weekend to pass the 45-day stopgap budget measure is coming to the reality

of a divided government, which is that there is literally no passable legislation that is not bipartisan. why does that sound so crazy? even if steve scalise or jim jordan who have both officially announced are able to rise to the speakership, they too will learn that lesson. the hard right may make demands but the hard right cannot pass bills. so what is the republican party to do? because there has got to be a better way. let us ask one of them, an influential republican lawmaker, who will emerge as a power broker in this drama. joining us is republican congressman from new york and member of the main street caucus, mike lawler, congressman, thank you so much. i hear you have an opinion about matt gaetz, and that you do think he should be expelled? >> oh, i think he should be expelled from the conference, no question. he violated the conference rules by bringing the motion to vacate

forward without a majority of the majority. and teamed up with 208 democrats to remove a dually elected house republican speaker. he undermined the conference, he undermined the institution, and he undermined the country, and he doesn't care. and so to me, i don't really see why we would have him part of our conference going forward. it's clear he's not somebody who's willing to work within the conference. and wants to associate himself more with house democrats to remove republican speakers. so i certainly believe that he should be removed from conference. >> what about the other seven who voted alongside of him, what do you think of them? >> i think unfortunately, you know, some of them were useful idiots in this crusade on matt gaetz's part. it was petty. it was personal. and it really, again, undermined

the conference and the institution. look, voters elected a house republican majority to govern the house, to serve as a check and balance on the reckless spending of the biden administration, $5 trillion in new spending in two years. totally unsustainable. and they wanted us to to do something about the border. unfortunately these eight individuals torpedoed the conference, took out our best player on the field, if you will, and created a constitutional crisis. we need to get a new speaker elected. we need to get back to doing the work of the american people, holding this administration accountable, raining in spending. dealing with our southern border, which in my home state of new york has created an absolute calamity, you have the mayor of new york city saying that the migrant crisis is

destroying new york city. the governor saying there's no more room at the inn. we need to slow down the influx at the border. we have real challenges, and this prevents us from dealing with those challenges. >> i think you're right about the border and especially in places like new york where it is coming to a head, and i have questions about the bipartisan nature of the house and whether it can work together. but i do want to get your take on the two people that are currently now, i guess, leading the house.sation about leading steve scalise and jim jordan. do you support either one of th >> let me just comment on the bipartisan nature of the house real quick. i think there was an opportunity yesterday frankly. i am a member of problem solvers. we did have a meeting, and i think there was an opportunity for folks to put the country above the insanity, and all 208 democrats that were here voted with matt gaetz. i think it was an opportunity

that was missed, and i think it, you know, left a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouth about the ability of problem solvers to function. >> my understanding from the democrats, part of the problem was that kevin mccarthy wasn't trust worthy from the democrats, he needed them to help pass the funding bill, and then he went on tv and blamed them for trying to shut down government when that just wasn't the reality. >> with all due respect, i've never seen a speaker of the house that's not partisan. nancy pelosi was as partisan as they come. hakeem jeffries literally met with us two weeks ago on the issue of a cr and potential shutdown and said, oh, i don't want to politicize this on the same day house majority forward dropped mailers and ads attacking people like me. let's be real. >> i understand there's definitely going to be a partisan back and forth, but let

me ask you this, if you want to come to a bipartisan coalition, i mean, you're from new york, you're from a moderate district, a place where people want to see the house function, they want to see compromise, they want to see bipartisan legislation. obviously you're a republican in new york. is there not something that you think that can cross the aisle, that can do that, that can find that middle part of the party in order to get things done? because there are some big issues facing us, immigration, as you said, but also the government needs to be funded and there's 31 days to do so. >> there's a reason that folks like me won, and that was because democrats had one party rule in washington, albany, and new york city for the first in our nation's history, and voters want balance. they want compromise. they want common sense. we are in a divided government. any final legislation is going to have to be bipartisan, which is why the speaker agreed to a bipartisan cr on saturday to

keep the government open and funded. he had exhausted all options to get a republican plan through the house to negotiate with the senate. and my colleagues torpedoed that. >> that's what happened. what's going to happen next? >> we all have a responsibility to govern. >> what's going to happen -- >> and that is what i'm here to do. we are going to meet next week as a conference and elect a speaker. this is not going to be a speaker that is elected by democrats. democrats just removed the republican speaker, so i don't see how you're going to get to 218 without it being the choice of the house republican majority. it's going to have to be, but there's no question long term, we have to find balance, we have to find compromise, and we have to find bipartisanship in a divided government. >> i think you're right about that. let me ask you about specifically jim jordan or steve

scalise, do you support either one of them? do you think either one of them will play in your district? if you don't win again, it's going to be harder for republicans to maintain control of the house again next year? >> i haven't made any decision as to who i will be supporting for speaker? i think we have a lot of talented people in our party. i think it's unfortunate that we took our best player off the field. kevin mccarthy was the right person to lead this conference. so there's going to have to be a reckoning within the conference going forward and determining who's the best person to lead us. >> do you think steve scalise or jim jordan helps you in your reelection bid? >> i have a lot of questions with respect to, number one, accountability for the eight that torpedoed the conference. number two, the motion to vacate and changing that rule. how we're going to build consensus to get to 218 in the house, and so i'm looking forward to the conversations,

and hearing the answers from those that are seeking this position. and i'm here today because i'm speaking to a lot of my colleagues to determine the path forward. >> and you're speak to go a big audience that watches us from new york, and i think i'm just trying to get you nailed down on this because, again, you're going to be a power broker as "punch bowl news" has described you going forward because you're one of the front line republicans that needs to get reelected again. do you think hard liners like steve scalise or jim jordan who are lightning poles among democrats and moderates are going to be good for dwrou? you? >> at the end of the day, i didn't get elected because of who the leader is. i got elected because i represent my district, and i made the case to my constituents on the issue, and my democratic opponent, sean patrick maloney voted 100% of the time with joe biden and nancy pelosi.

voters want balance. i represent that. i'm not concerned about the impact of this on 2024. we need to elect a speaker. we will see who can build consensus to get to 218, and then move forward and focus on the work of the american people because that's why we're here. this isn't about personalities. it's not about, you know, leadership. it is about doing the work of the american people. we need to elect a speaker. we will do that and get back to the work. >> i think you're right about that. people want to see work get done. they want to see bipartisanship. they want to see compromise. we really appreciate you coming on, congressman mike law ler. thank you very much for joining us today. >> thank you. appreciate it. take care. joining us now, democratic congressman from michigan, dan kildee, congressman, thank you so much. what do you think of this accusation that we have been hearing from a lot of republicans and the problem solvers caucus that the democrats really didn't do the institution any favors yesterday by, as they say, voting

alongside matt gaetz? >> well, first of all, we don't vote alongside matt gaetz, we took the question that was presented to us, and that is is kevin mccarthy fit to be the speaker, and just based on his track record, we came to a unanimous decision that, no, he is not. and it's because he can not be trusted to tell the truth. he can't be trusted, you know, when he makes a commitment, he doesn't keep it. i go back to january 6th. when he stood there and held donald trump responsible. two weeks later was in mar-a-lago on his knees to donald trump. i think about the debt ceiling negotiation, where we came together in a bipartisan fashion, shook hands, made a deal. we lived up to our part of it. and within just a few days, kevin mccarthy walked away from that deal that he struck with democrats and with president biden. and then i think about this most recent continuing resolution, and i think you pointed it out

in your conversation earlier with mike lawler, he went on the sunday shows, the democrats rescued kevin mccarthy from the kevin mccarthy shutdown. and then he fabricated facts to indicate that we were somehow responsible. i mean, this is just not a person whose word is any good. we know that the republicans get a choice to pick their own speaker. but when they wrote those rules, they knew that democrats were going to hold the speaker to a standard, if that motion to vacate ever appeared on the floor. they knew that, otherwise they never would have argued about it. >> do you think that there's -- >> go ahead, go ahead. >> i was going to say, if they expected that we always would have supported the republican speaker no matter what he does to us or no matter how untrustworthy he is, they never would have had a debate about the motion to vacate because it would have been inert. they knew what they were doing. and they knew what the consequence would be.

>> let me ask you this because -- and i agree with congressman lawler when he says the american people want to see things get done, and right now nothing can get done in the house because there's no speaker. is there somebody that the democrats can work with? if you were advising anybody on the other side of the aisle, not to say that you would, if you want to get things done, passed in the senate controlled by the democrats, signed by a president who's a democrat, i think you should choose this person, this is a person who can help us work in washington? >> i can give them a name, hakeem jeffries, he's a person whose word you can trust, but obviously i don't think republicans, i can't imagine republicans are going to embrace that. i'm not as concerned about the ideology of who they select as their nominee for speaker because i can deal with any ideology. >> jim jordan, steve scalise? >> the question is this a person

whose word can be trusted? can we actually do business? can we work across the aisle and have some level of trust? so as republicans measure the candidates, my hope is that they place a very high premium, not so much on where this person lands on the political spectrum. they're going to elect a conservative. but they can operate in a way that allows us to come together at a table of goodwill and have an honest conversation, knowing when we get up from the table and come to an understandings that the speaker is not going to go out and break his word in 15 or 20 minutes. >> you did end up working with kevin mccarthy, even though he did throw you under the bus afterwards, do you think you can work alongside steve scalise and

jim jordan. >> i have a personal relationship with steve scalise. i've probably had 200 conversations with steve scalise, i've had about five with kevin mccarthy, so i would put him in a different category than kevin. it's not my business to decide. certainly if i endorse somebody, that probably hurts them. hakeem jeffries would be a speaker that anybody can work with, and i hope it's not too long before he's the speaker. >> congressman dan kill lee, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate you coming on. who will most likely end up as speaker and where their power will lie. and getting their act together before the next shut down deadline next month. what made donald trump throw up his hands in court today. we are back in 60 seconds. k in . .

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. joining us now msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. i ate into some of your time by going along with those lawmakers. you tell me, what's the word on capitol hill? is it going to be jim jordan or steve scalise? >> you know, katy, i actually am not confident it's going to be either of them to be frank with you because of that interview you had with mike lawler, the republican from new york. i'm reading tea leaves, i don't see him supporting scalise or jordan, personally. i think it's quite possible that the candidate we'll have for speaker, that will win the speakership is not somebody that we're thinking about now. who is that person? i don't know the answer to that, but i just see very difficult that anybody, that scalise or jordan will get the republican conference, and no chance for unity at this point.

>> i was going to ask that. i started the show saying there's got to be a better way. it seems like a bad infomercial, they can't get the hard right in line, they can't pass legislation, and they can't pass legislation that the hard right wants either. so there's got to be a better way. >> i would say this. the speaker election is supposed to be next wednesday. i think it's safe to say that that could slip. i think if we get into week two or week three or, you know, some period past next wednesday without a consensus pick for speaker, and when i say consensus pick, i mean, they're not going to the floor without 218. they're not going to go to the floor unless they know they can elect the speaker because they're going to look like clowns if they do so for another 15 round balloting. it ain't going to work. if they get to week two or three, they're going to have to start looking for a consensus speaker. i don't think it's plausible. i don't think it's really likely, but i just don't know who in that conference could get 218.

i don't know. and you have the balance you'll have to make, katy, between the mike lawlers of the world who want to punish the lawmakers who voted against mccarthy with the right, who think they were well within their bounds and did the right thing. as you're showing, there are eight people who voted against mccarthy, and i think that push and pull between punishing them and embracing them is something republicans low temperature to contend with. >> what gets passed in the next year before the next election? >> well, katy, we're like 40 something days to a shutdown, and few you thought this last scare was bad, this next one is going to be worse because if you elect somebody who is on the right side of the conference, you're going to have somebody who's not going to be able to bend to democrats' demands, especially at the outset. i mean, steve scalise and jim jordan, both i've covered far long time are not compromisers in the traditional sense. they're not willing to work with

democrats unless they get what they want. jim jordan's motto is do what we told them to do. he believes that campaign rhetoric isn't just campaign rhetoric, people should actually do what they say on the campaign trail. if they say they're going to pass a bill to secure the border and build a wall, they better do that. >> i understand that. i think it's admirable to stick by your word, and you have to understand, and i know you know this, the reality is it's a divided government, and you can do all the hard line bills you want but they're not going to pass the senate. you're going to have to find a compromise that the democrats in the senate will support. >> jim jordan in 2018 and 2019 was one of the forces that shut down the government to force chuck schumer to build a border wall with mexico, and donald trump was on jordan's side obviously. they shut down the government for 35 days over a fight they could not, and everyone knew they could not win. and i'm not being critical of jim jordan. he's well within his rights to take the positions he wants to take and be a hard liner, a lot

of people like that about him. but if you're looking for hope at the end of the day that you're going to get somebody who's willing to compromise, jim jordan and steve scalise are not your guys. i want to add one more thing, katy, i don't think this is clear at the white house, among some democrats. ukraine aid is a thing of the past right now. these people campaigning for speaker are campaigning that ukraine aid is a bad thing, and i just think the administration is completely lost on that point, and i think we're beyond the point after democrats and republicans voted mccarthy out, i think we're beyond the point that ukraine aid is a possibility, at least in the near future. >> we're going to ask senator bennett about that in a moment. he's going to join us. obviously that's a big topic for him. before we go, jake, i have a present for you, and i'm going to play it right now. >> after only nine months on the job, kevin mccarthy has been removed as speaker of the house. yeah.

nine months, even aaron rodgers is like, damn, that was fast. nine month, i've been to phish concerts longer than that. >> i think there's still a phish concert out there that hasn't quite finished. >> katy, i want to say phish begins on friday night in nashville, tennessee, dayton, ohio, and chicago. good luck to all involved. >> jake sherman, thank you very much. >> thanks, katy. and again, there are 31 working days left to fund the government. what does the next house speaker do about it? is there going to be a house speaker by that point? because whatever they do do, again, it's going to have to be acceptable to people like my next guest. joining me is democratic senator from colorado, michael bennet. good to have you my friend, it's been a long time. jake said there's not a person currently in the runner for leadership among house republicans that wants to have

any funding for ukraine passed. you obviously feel very strongly about that. >> that's just not acceptable. the reason i held up the whole budget bill over the weekend was that i wanted to make sure the american people could see that congress was going home without funding ukraine. on the senate side at least we were able to get the democratic leader and the republican leader, republicans and democrats to put out a statement saying we were going to come back and fight for this ukraine aid. obviously in the house, it's a very different situation, and my view is it would be a tragedy for humanity, for democracy, for the united states to cut and run now. zelenskyy told us if we did not fund this war, they would lose. and we will lose the european allies, we will lose so much of what we've gained if the idiotic politics in the house can't figure out how to clear the way for this funding. >> how do you convince them to

do that. or if you can't convince them, what do you do when that bill comes to the senate? >> i think we need that full court press. you know, with the american people so they understand really what's at stake. the massive errors that putin made, wait he's exposed the weakness of his army. the way we have been able to bring the nato alliance together. something unimaginable when donald trump was elected president has now happened. the u.s. is now, you know, standing at the head of these free countries around the world, standing against tyranny. xi jinping has to rethink his entire effort with respect to taiwan. it's just amazing to me that politicians in the house who couldn't stay enough days or years or centuries in afghanistan would want to cut and run when it comes to ukraine. it makes no sense. we have obviously, katy, have to pass a significant bipartisan

bill in the senate with broad support. so that the house of representatives is going to have to contend with that, and hopefully in its narrow margin not make the horrible mistake it just made that we've seen over the weekend. but come together as democrats and republicans to support not just the funding for ukraine but funding for emergencies and so many other things that we have to contend. >> are you ready to hold up a bill that comes to the senate that does not include that ukraine funding potentially to shut down the government? >> i definitely am. i definitely am. i said on saturday that my mom, she's a polish jew, born in warsaw poland, she survived with the perspective of 16 million people that were killed in ukraine and poland during world war ii. how they get forgotten by politicians here that seem to, you know, be concerned with a different set of imperatives, and katy, i don't think this is

a moment for politics. it's not a question of when we go home, do we stay here, do we make a trade for this, or do we make a trade for that. as zelenskyy said, we're giving our lives. we're asking you to give your money. we have given a little over $7 billion, which is less than what the europeans have put this this war, and i think any person who looks at this and considers the fact that ukraine has been able to, because of their bravery, because of their courage, partly because of zelenskyy's leadership, they have been able to fight the russians to a standstill on the front lines. all of that collapses if there's not the usa to back that, and the russians are about to start a counter offensive. that's well known. over the next month, we're going to have to make the case to the american people. it is proof that we should not have passed a bill this weekend without ukraine aid, but that is what it is, now we got to go

bard, and we got to for our kids and grand kids for the sake of this democracy, we got to do the right thing here. >> senator michael bennet, thank you for joining us. you say you will shut down the government if there's not ukraine aid in the next budget deal that comes to the senate. senator, thank you so much. coming up, what ag tish james said in response to donald trump today outside of court. plus, what 13 million patients stand to lose as health care workers go on strike today. h care workers go on strike today.

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donald trump was in court for a third day today, attending his civil fraud trial here in new york city. throughout this morning's proceedings, trump, who remember, has been under a gag order since yesterday repeatedly threw up his arms as one of his former accountants testified. when he left at the lunchtime break, the former president continued to attack the judge and the ag and the process. >> i'm here, stuck here, and i can't campaign. i would rather be right now in iowa. i'd rather be in new hampshire or south carolina, or ohio or a lot of other places, but i'm stuck here because i have a corrupt attorney general and the judge already knows what he's going to do. he's a democrat judge. in all fairness, he has no choice. he has no choice. he's run by the democrats. >> joining us now from outside of the courthouse, msnbc anchor,

lindsey reiser, get us up to speed. >> reporter: the former president very agitated there. you see as opposed to yesterday when he seemed to be in better spirits but the former president, we should mention is not compelled to be here, and he has left, katy, for the day. he's wheels up, back to florida. he didn't have to be here, not until he's called to testify. the former president has called attorney general james corrupt, a derogatory team. today he called her a political animal, and today attorney general james addressed the cameras again. this is what she said. >> mr. trump's comments were offensive. they were baseless. they were void of any facts and/or any evidence. what they were were comments that unfortunately fomented violence, comments that i would describe as race-baiting. comments, unfortunately, that appeals to the bottom of our humanity. i will not be bullied.

and so mr. trump is no longer here. the donald trump show over. >> reporter: things got very fiery before the recess lunch with the judge appearing to get frustrated over the redundancy of questions, the cross-examination of mr. bender, the ex-cpa, can't we lump this together after going property by property, year after year. saying this is ridiculous, and pounding the bench. trump's saying this is our chance to defend our client. now, katy, to catch everybody up to speed on what's happening right now. bender is no longer on the stand. we have witness number 2. that doesn't mean bender is done, but the judge is acome dating the other witness, harris, another cpa who took over at bender's team. the judge in this case wished a very happy birthday to the lead

attorney arguing this case on behalf of the attorney general's office, kevin wallace, saying it was a very important day. we should know that the former president has accused the judge of being very one-sided and essentially saying he's a democrat and he already knows the outcome, and as you mentioned, the former president and his team are appealing the judge's partial summary judgment ruling last week, katy. >> the outcome with the summary judgment is that he committed fraud. thank you very much. joining us is former manhattan assistant district attorney jeremy sand, thank you very much. we have lisa, which is why i started to talk slowly there. lisa rubin is joining us from outside the courthouse. lisa just ran out because they're on a break there. what's the very latest? >> the very latest, first of all, i heard you talking with lindsey reiser about the judge wishing kevin wallace a happy

birthday. i shared that with our viewers on twitter. i was then very swiftly reminded that angora loves birthdays. so there are folks close to the attorney general's office who very much want us to know that angoran is not in the can for them, least doing his best to see the facts. right before the break, the person on the stand right now, cameron harris was the successor accountant to donald bender. this is an accommodation to mr. harris's schedule. but mr. harris has given testimony that's along the same lines as bender, saying that an accountant's role in compiling statements is a limited one. most importantly for our viewers' purposes, it doesn't involve verifying the accuracy of the numbers given by a client, and expressing an opinion or assurance about the

accuracy of the numbers. that's an important fact for the attorney general to bring out. the trump people want the judge to think they should have been entitled to rely on their certified public accountants, and the accountants are saying, we have a limited role here, and actually the onus was always on the trump organization as our client to give us accurate and fair information presented fully in conformity with generally accepted accounting principles and therefore, the accountants may be as much a victim of the fraud as the end users, the banks and lenders, and people in the financial markets that the trump organization dealt with along the way. >> if you, jeremy r going to your certified public accountant, and saying this is what i think the value of my home s wouldn't a good cpa come back and say i did a little bit of retch research on my own and the value is maybe $300,000. >> i think donald trump is not

someone like us meaning that there's always been evidently inflated value of all of his property, wherever it may reside and whatever holdings he has. that accountant's job is not to go through every person who provides him or her documentation or data and statistics about the value of the property. that would be incredibly time consuming and well beyond the scope of their relationship professionally. there's people who do that no doubt and what we're hearing and learning if true that donald trump's team, if you will, did that internally. >> what if the trump team decides to appeal based on the behavior of the judge. i mean, they're arguing the judge is out to get them. they're arguing the judge favors the attorney general. we had the judge today try to tell donald trump's attorneys to speed it up, that their questioning of this cpa was going on too long. and there argument was we got to go through this year by year to prove our point that we thought we were above the line on this.

we were above board in reporting what we thought the value of the properties was, and we're relying on our cpa. >> i think if i was sitting on that chair, that judge, i would be much more liberal, in terms of the listening sense, to allow cross-examination. i know there's going to be an appeal. i want to protect that record. there's value in cross-examination. 100%. and what else is donald trump going to do, but this is not a jury. i don't want to say a jury is naive or foolish, that's not true at all but they don't have the experience in a courtroom as the judge. they don't understand the law as a judge, and we'll use et term tricks of the on both sides of the law. let's move this process along, let's move this quickly. that's fair, but i would be more cautious because i know there's going to be an appeal. >> lisa, you were in the courtroom, and his behavior was different today than at past days.

at one point throwing up his hands and looking back at the gallery. tell me what prompted that. >> well, at one point, katy, he raised his hand because he could not hear his former accountant, donald bender, who's soft spoken, has a lisp and a heavy queens accent. donald trump objected, i can't hear him. now, most plaintiffs and defendants as our guests can tell you, don't behave that way in the courtroom. they rely on their counsel to do the speaking for them. donald trump is no ordinary litigant. he's an entitled person, as a former president, which lawyers continue to remind witnesses. they believe he should be treated differently. they're trying to insinuate as accountants for the former president, they owed him a higher duty of care. any lawyer who is experienced in accounting cases or securities cases can tell you, you don't owe a different duty of carefulness to a client just because they're an important person, and so donald trump was

continuing to behave as the important person he believes himself to do. the judge did ask mr. bender to speak up. it's really in the courtroom we have seen his anger. >> thank you very much. jeremy sala in thank you as well. nurses, technicians are on strike. what the patients will lose in the biggest walkout in u.s. history and what the workers are asking for. he workers are asking for ...makeup smearing drops user. i want another option that's not another drop. tyrvaya. it's not another drop. it's the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. tyrvaya treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease fast by helping your body produce its own real tears. common side effects include sneezing, cough, and throat and nose irritation. relying only on drops? not me. my own real tears are my relief. ask your eye doctor about tyrvaya.

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the writers, the actors, the port workers, the auto workers, and now health care workers. 75,000 union members of kaiser permanente, including nursing staff, emts, respiratory care practitioners and more are officially on strike, picketing what they call dangerously low staffing levels and unfair labor practices in the wake of the pandemic. kaiser, which is the largest nonprofit health care system in the u.s. treats nearly 13 million patients. so what services will be affected? joining us now from kaiser permanente medical center in los angeles is nbc news national correspondent david noriega, good to have you. what are the workers asking for? >> reporter: by far the top grievance is staffing. there's a serious labor shortage across the health care industry,

and kaiser is no exception. these workers say they have been burnt out for years. we spoke to several strikers, including one who's a negotiator for the union. here's what she had to say. >> we're here because we want kaiser executives to come and bargain in good faith. we are here because we want kaiser executives to stop shoulders on staffing. we want kaiser to come to the table, and start bargaining in good faith. that's really what we want. >> reporter: when you say they haven't been bargaining in good faith so far, what do you mean? >> they haven't come to the table. literally we have been waiting for them at the table. what they do is send a communication that they're bargaining, by meeting in person, i'm sitting on a table waiting for them to see. i'm waiting for the ceo of kaiser to come. i'm part of the bargaining team. i have not seen the ceo on the table. so they're not bargaining in good faith. i've been exhausted. i've been in the negotiations for the last two weeks.

we haven't had a break day and night. 1:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the morning. and we are asking the kaiser executives come to the table. i'm physically, mentally tired. i'm tired of seeing a short staffing hospital. i'm sick and tired of coming together table and kaiser not showing up even on the table, just on paper. so physically, mentally, spiritually, i'm tired. my son was born here 19 years ago. my mother has diabetes, and i'm just terrified that, you know, they would have an emergency, would have to come to the hospital, and not getting the care that they needed and they deserved. >> so, david, it's very clear she feels like she's not being fairly bargained with. what exactly other than staffing levels is the issue, and are they asking for a mandatory minimum for staffing levels? are they asking for more money? what else is there is this. >> reporter: the two biggest issues are staffing and pay, but

you have to think of those as being directly connected. what the union says in order to hire more workers retain them, you have to pay them more. kaiser says it already pays workers more than the market average. the workers say that's still not good enough. better than an already bad market average is not good enough, and the droves of workers who are leaving are proof of that. the objective of this strike is just a three-day strike is to bring kaiser back to the table to bargain with a serious proposal to solve this really structural problem affecting the entire industry. katy. >> david, thank you very much for joining us. joining us now is national affairs correspondent at the nation, john nichols. again, this is another major strike, biggest one among health care workers in u.s. history. why right now? >> i think that the pandemic is really at the heart of this, and during the pandemic, health care workers were really on the front lines. they went through a lot. they suffered, and many did get sick and died. and i think it meant in that period they saw that one of their big challenges is that

there just aren't enough people to staff these wards, to make sure that the care can be given at the level that it should be, and so as a result, those who are working are really pushed to, you know, work harder, longer hours, and at the same time, parallel to that, there is a sense that they're under paid. the company or kaiser permanente and the unions are not tt far apart on pay b the union is looking f $25 an hour minimum wage. obviously it would be more for some workers, and what they're saying is that the company can do that. the ceo of the company is paid more than $15 million a year. other executives executives are paid. there is a sense that the people on the frontru lines are not beg paid sufficiently. >> they generated $25 billion in the second quarter of last year. let me ask you about what's at stake here because when we are

talking about health care workers it's twofold. you don't want tired health care workers on the job. if anybody has been to a hospital post-covid they know that there are staffing issues everywhere and the nurses and doctors are strung out and very tired. on the other hand, going on strike when you are work in the medical profession, a lot of the support staff, that also is pretty dangerous. how do they walk this line? >> sure. i mean, it's something that the unions thinking about a lot. the union has evolved here, seiu primarily, although other unions and others. they are conscious of what they are doing here. they are doing a three-day strike. they notified the company in advance. we are walking out for three days to show you how needed we are and also in hopes that you will be encouraged to bargain more aggressively to get this contract done. the hospitals are prepared for this. they have canceled or delayed

many lesser procedures. they have got doctors in place. so i don't think you are looking at a situation like there is going to be a health care crisis for patients in this short term. i guess you are at a situation where the union understands very well that there are patients involved and they have to be concerned about that. the company does. and so there is an attempt here to, i think, communicate a seriousness as regards these negotiations. the union folks don't want the negotiations to just drag out forever and to have no progress. so i think that's why you are seeing the three-day strike. >> public support for the auto workers is sky high. we will see if it is for the health care workers. thank you very much. next, the influence politics and religion are having on schools in a north texas town.

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correspondent antonia hylton. so tell us what's going on. >> well, in this community in nor'easter, grapevine, colleyville, south lake, which msnbc viewers are very familiar with, we are seeing the growing influence of christian activists and religion in the public school system. and now a group of students and teachers are speaking out. take a look. amanda grutry is acooperating to a new routine. after years as a history teacher in texas, politics and religion compelled her to leave the job she loved. what was it like being around your kids? >> it was the best part of every day. >> reporter: in recent years, her old school district of

grapevine colleyville passed sweeping policies, banning discussions of gender, regulating the bathroom use of transgender students and restricting lessons on race, gender and sexuality. while some parents in favor, guthrie isn't, and she says she felt like she couldn't teach her students the full context about american history. so she quit before the school year was over. >> very simple truth. there is only two genders. teachers shouldn't be forced to use your freaking fantasy made-up pronounce. why not stick it out? >> it felt unsafe. they were openingly disparaging work that teachers were doing. >> reporter: pastor in nor'easter representative nate schatz line is one of the most outspoken legislators. >> there is nothing more important we could be doing than this, worshipping and praying in the middle of the capitol.

>> reporter: has voted to hire religious cap lins as unlicensed mental health counselors in public schools. he spoke with nbc news for the podcast grapevine. do you believe in the fundamental separation of church and state? >> i believe that church and state, in the constitution, what was written about it was written to keep the state out of the church, not to keep the church out of the state. >> we spoke to some nor'easter students who say their education is too politicized. >> it's frustrating, strange and hypocritical to see the "in god we trust" signs put up everywhere, while at the same time books are being removed from the library shelves. >> did you ever get the sense that a teacher was trying to push their political or gender-related views on you in school? >> absolutely not. >> the grapevine colleyville independent school district declined requests for interviews but told nbc news we continuously look how to better serve and support our employees. as for amanda she was one of

more than 160 staffers who resigned from her district the end of last school year. 83% increase from a year earlier. >> i was struck by one teacher saying how unsafe she felt. i have was struck because when you saw the anger in that parent's voice scream being how there is only two genders, assuming the parents of those kids feel differently about the education system and probably have strong opinions on what should be taught in schools and allowed to be taught, is there any compromise between parents with conflicting views or is it all siding with one set of parents? >> i have asked everyone in the community that question. what i keep hearing is that people feel like there is a divide right down the middle on these issues right now. in fact, sometimes students or families on either side can no longer talk to each other. but amanda guthrie told me part for her was whiplash. she went from being a hero during covid to hearing parents

like the parent you just saw there come forward and label teachers and educators as pedophiles because they were -- >> hearing specific lesson plans, or stuff they are hearing from certain radio talk shows or podcasts or seeing online this idea that it's happening, even if they have no direct evidence? >> from our reporting, we look at the books and materials that were in the districts, and you hear parents call it pornography. we have not found that. we found stories about lgbtq kids, you know, their experiences, both positive or perhaps experiences of abuse at school or in their families, or stories about minority students, history of ruby bridges, mlk's autobiography. >> mlk's autobiography. >> people challenging stories about mlk, michelle obama's autobiography, for example. you see getting all wrapped up in the same conversation around theulture war and it's hard to