there come forward and label teachers and educators as pedophiles because they were -- >> hearing specific lesson plans, or stuff they are hearing from certain radio talk shows or podcasts or seeing online this idea that it's happening, even if they have no direct evidence? >> from our reporting, we look at the books and materials that were in the districts, and you hear parents call it pornography. we have not found that. we found stories about lgbtq kids, you know, their experiences, both positive or perhaps experiences of abuse at school or in their families, or stories about minority students, history of ruby bridges, mlk's autobiography. >> mlk's autobiography. >> people challenging stories about mlk, michelle obama's autobiography, for example. you see getting all wrapped up in the same conversation around theulture war and it's hard to at times to get to the bottom of

where these come from. >> the podcast is grapevine. i have gone way over. i'm sorry to "deadline: white house," which starts right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ hi, everyone. a dramatic day in court after a judge stakes action on an issue that has loomed over the entire country since the ex-president descended these escalators at trump tower eight years ago. that is his longstanding practice of threatening and wielding violent and dangerous rhetoric as a weapon. against anyone who he perceives as standing in his way of anything. inevitably, facing the potential for violence. donald trump under a gag order. back in court this morning fo he eventually left during a break. nbc news reports, speaking outside the courtroom before the

trial start, trump decried it as a political hit job against him as he repeated his ongoing atck against new york attorney general letitia james whom he accused of trying to interfere with his chances of another presidential term. in fact, trump returned to the cameras multiple times railing against letitia james and the prosecutors who brought criminal charges against him. there are 91 felony counts in total against him. he also attacked judge engoron against the legal system, have not stopped or slowed online either. once ain from nbc news, hours after the trial wrapped up yesterday, trump aired his grievances in a post on his truth social platform saying the trial is unfair and again suggesting it was an attempt to interfere with his presidential campaign. attorney general james addressed trump's attacks on her in a brief statement a few hours ago. >> mr. trump's comments were

offensive, baseless, they were void of any facts and/or any evidence. what they were, were comments that, unfortunately, fomented violence, comments that i would describe as race baiting, comments, unfortunately, that appeals to the bottom of our humanity. this case was brought simply because it was a case where individuals have engaged in a pattern and practice of fraud. and i will not sit idly by and allow anyone to subvert the law. lastly, i will not be bullied. so mr. trump is no longer -- the donald trump show is over. this was nothing more than a political stunt. a fund-raising stop. now we can continue to go forward with our trial and we are confident that justice will be served. >> wow. are worth remembering that these remarks and posts from trump

that she is referring to come from an vad, i would say for better or worse, mostly worse, with one of the most powerful megaphones the world over. the new york reports about judge engoron's decision to impose the gag order, the judge spoke bravely as he explained the terms of his order. he noted while trump had taken down the truth social post about miss green field, the former president's campaign had already sent out a copy in an email to millions of people. the power of trump's rhetoric remains a factor over the proceedings where two former trump accountants testified, including donald bender. he previously testified that he compiled financial statements for the trump org using information given to him by trump and his company. donald trump's civil fraud trial grappling with the consequences of trump's ongoing dangerous rhetoric is where we begin

today. russ is back with us. also joining us, andrew weissmann. a former top official with the justice department. and former fbi counterintelligence act pete struck is back. andrew, i want to start with you. i know that in the political arena trump's lies have a cumulative positive effect for him. they aid him politically because he lies so many times that his supporters believe that there was some fraud in the 2020 -- whatever the lie is he is telling them. i have wonder in a legal capacity if he is clearly making these stops to raise money, if they are going to bite him in the butt when he tries to argue that he doesn't have time to go to trials because he is campaigning. he is making the trials the centerpiece of his political candidacy. >> well, i don't think that he is going to do very well with the current motions that he has

made in d.c. and in florida where he is seeking more time, and what the government has said is transparent effort to ultimately have the trial dates put off. a march date in the d.c. federal case, and a may date in the florida federal case. i don't think it's going to play well when people see that he has ample time to engage in other activities other than preparing for trial. the judge in the d.c. case has made it quite clear that whatever his extracurricular activities are, whether he wants to run for office or not, there is a criminal case and that is going to go forward the way it would for anyone else. her analogy was to a sports hero who says, you know, but i have games to play. she says, you know, all good and well, but we are going forward

with a criminal trial, which takes precedence over anything that you choose to do or choose not to do. so i don't think it's going to really play that well on that score. i think the much more salient and important issue is the continued rhetoric and whether this first gag order is sufficient as a sort of brush back and causes the former president to measure his sort of call and response to this beck to violence. we will know more on october 16th when there is a hearing on that issue in federal court in d.c. but i think that's the key, for me at least, the key date, the terms of understanding of whether judges are will impose further restrictions other than the restriction yesterday in the civil case. >> andrew weissmann, i mean,

this argument that the judge is making that even though you took down the incendiary post, you had also smeared, maligned, you know, defamed, whatever the word was, our staff in an email sent to your millions and millions and millions of supporters. the permanence of the attacks are something that jack smith gets into in his filing, his request for a gag order. he writes, the defendant should no be permitted to obtain the benefits of his incendiary public statements and then avoid accountability by having others whose messages he knows will receive less attention than his own, feign retraction. i mean, again, i think what i'm trying to wrap my brain around is are his patterns and practices of lying, smearing,

intimidating, threatening, bullying that have all of their parallels in efforts to prosecute mexican drug cartels, efforts to prosecute mob figures here in this country, is he really running into a friction point with these judges and with these courts in terms of his escalating rhetoric and their filings? >> i don't know the answer to that. that's why i think october 16th is going to be key. i think one way i look at that question, nicole, is we saw yesterday the judge's reaction when the attack was on the judge's own staff. and you totally understand why the judge did what he did, and i commend him for that. and the only thing that i would say, though, is the litany of sort of rhetoric that you have

outlined is -- it shouldn't take that you have personal relationship and it's someone's staff that is being attacked. that is true for the jurors, the witnesses, the prosecutors, the judge and all of their family members and staff. it shouldn't have to be that it's something so over the top that -- and it deals with somebody who is so defenseless that you have a judge taking action. obviously, you want to take action before it's too late. that goes to your point that once it's out there, it's very, very hard to take back. the call and response a already in effect. let's just remember there are people who have been charged in connection with taking action in response to this so whether the good argument that it is intended, it is something that you know will

be responded to even if you then take it back later or force inside this case to take it back. it will be interesting to see whether the d.c. judge thinks that this has crossed a line where further action needs to be taken. >> pete struck, attorney general letitia james with a very, very blistering rebuke of trump's conduct, accusing him of, quote, fomenting violence, and, quote, race baiting. you do have in these public officials a real steeliness that in some ways obscures the cesspool of threats and menace that trump has stirred up on social media against them. >> i think that's right. and i think what is important about this recent protective order is these comments that trump was making was not against judges or elected or appointed officials. this was going to the people who keep the system run, who make

the system work. in a lot of ways, it remind me of shane, freeman, the attacks on the front not in front, attorney generals and prosecutors who are steely in their determination to move forward with their job, but the people who work for them, whether it's clerks, agents, investigators, those are the folks that the judge said, look, there is an absolute line here. and i think it's important because, you know, the overton window, the sort of shifting of reasonably expected behaviors by a political figure, i think this finally stargts to set some boundaries on what trump can't do. you know, to andrew's comments, which i completely agree with, i think this is likely to be necessary but insufficient. i don't think this alone is going to stop what is inappropriate behavior. i expect he will continue to try to push the window against witnesses and others and i fully expect to see additional sanctions by judges, whether in

new york or other cases. it's welcome. it's long overdue. frankly, i think it's important not just for this trial, but to protect the entire process of the system of justice. >> and, russ, what is at stake here is really nothing less than who trump lies about being, right? i mean, he is easily triggered all sorts of arenas, but none apparently more so than when questions of his actual wealth and his actual competence as a business leader are on the line. and i want to just remind folks what this judge has already done to trump in the context of this specific proceeding. last year the judge held trump in contemp fining him $110,000. laump unsuccessfully tried et engoron off the case. he called the judge deranged. monday said he was rogue and should be disbarred. as a restf the threats,

court security officers pick the judge up in the morning and drive him to the courthouse. at the end day, officers drive him home. everybody that touches any piece of this, and this is a civil fraud trial, this isn't a criminal proceeding against him, but a lot of ways it triggers his ire as much or more than all the others. >> they are playing to his identity with this. there is nothing he has fought harder for in his whole life is to be seen as immensely wealthy on his own. he even disparaged his father's accomplishments to minimize them as like outer borough stuff. his father was a billionaire and self-made. he diminished that in order to make himself look like more of a self-made person. he has attacked everyone who ever questioned that. he lobbied hard every year to get on the forbes list. this case goes to the heart of that. and he hasn't even gotten to the hard part of his case yet.

i wonder if he will sit there as people come up and say, you know, deutsche bank, they are going to have evidence that he promised fees, he swore every year these financial statements were complete and accurate in order to obtain that loan, to keep it out of default and they have evidence that he did that. they have his signature saying they are complete and accurate while he testifies in the deposition that they are worthless. that's going to be hard, i think, for him to sort of sustain. but one thing you know from history with him, he is not going to address the facts of this, right. he is not going to talk about the merits of it. he is not going to spin it. he will attack the motives of the people who are aggravating him in that day. and i can't imagine this gag order is going to stop that. partition off a small group of people. that's going to continue. you're right. it's his heart and soul and he will fight it. >> on the stand are some of the accountants who are -- getting to what you are talking about. relied on information provided

by trump and you remind us he signed a lot of that documentation. i mean, you know, your point, the evidence is laid out, it will -- the state's case is incredibly strong. and it rests on the testimony of trump org insiders. what should we be prepared for in terms of his attacks on his own people on the inside of the accounting firms and banks and the company he relied upon? >> that's a really interesting question. i mean, today to see them as their first defense to say donald didn't do a good job of representatives -- like, i don't know, three or 4,000 tax returns filed by trump entities, they were all stamped by donald bender. and that firm did his father's work 30 and 40 years ago. to say they didn't do a good job, it seems diversionary at best. but, yeah, it's going to be blame somebody else, try to impeach somebody else, try to impeach the evidence.

i think we are going to see this is a document case, as the attorney general said. the complaint was 220 pages. it has an incredible amount of evidence in it. they have emails from ivanka trump and don jr. and eric and donald trump himself, like, patting themselves on the back for getting these low rates on loans based on the misrepresentations that they are making. that's going to be really hard and i think that's theomes to say they were acting in a rogue way? will that be a part of their defense? that would be remarkable even by donald trump standards. >> yes and no. i mean, he threw his father and his father's legacy under the bus. i know that the dynamic was complicated, but he is nothing literally and actually without his father. i think watching him throw his kids, you know, under the bus is something that trump will seek to normalize.

he called it in the deposition, quote, nuclear holocaust with north korea. that's what he was busy doing while his kids were running the company. i feel like he is already socializing and conditioning his supporters to think there is nothing wrong with that. >> his past practice should surprise no one that there is nobody above trump throwing them overboard or using them if he thinks it will help him or certainly if it will save him. i look at this activity and as a listener, i think back to the reporting. back to 2018, talking about all the false valuations in the real estate. we see these charges and extraordinary complex case in new york. my question is, where is the federal investigative government? where is the irs? where is the department of justice, whether it's from that reporting in 2018, whether it's the referral from letitia james of all this information? if there are these manifest tax problems at a new york state level, i have to believe between federal tax law and federal financial institution fraud,

certainly andrew of this panel is an expert of that, i have to think there are violations there. i just -- i am shocked by the absence of even sort of any rumblings of a federal investigation into this. and, you know, it makes me wonder whether that's happening or whether they are just content to leave that to new york state. >> do you know the answer? >> i don't know the answer. i do know what we have seen of the audit process for partnerships like this, about 500 tax returns a year, it is not robust at all. they almost never look at all of the entities that are attached to one person. they try to pick one or two that may, if it changed v a material impact. so it doesn't get looked at. and a lot of the things, once the statute of limitations expires, it's hard to reopen that case. it has to rise to the level of a fraud or ongoing fraud at some level as i understand it in order to be able to open that window further back. but i really don't think it's ever been looked at in a

holistic which. >> that's extraordinary. i remember one of the scoops of your book was some hindsight or reflections on not delving more deeply into trump's businesses. i am going to put a pin in this. what is now find by a judge to be fraudulent business practices. we will have more on that. we will also throw this out there. could the trump show in new york have any impact on the criminal cases that he also faces right now. plus, the republican party sided with extremism over any even charade at trying to govern. chaos over compromise making any hope of bipartisan in the house of representatives a relic from the past. very real consequences for the american public. that story ahead. later in the broadcast, donald trump's former chief of staff has blasted on the record the ex-president saying that he has no idea what america stands for and has no idea what america is all about.

we will bring you all these stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. entrust your heart to entresto. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor if entresto is right for you. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts.

antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save.

(aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. ask about vraylar and learn i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. thanks to golo, i've been able to steadily go down the sizes in my closet and keep the weight off. for the first time in forever, i feel in control. (announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com.

what is the -- what sort of assumptions or theories should we have as a public for why federal -- i mean, the irs has an enforcement branch. trump was audited. there is no indication that an enforcement exercise ever took place against his companies.

all this evidence, first reported by "the times," laid out in letitia james's work, al begin brag's work. why not ever a federal investigation into the trump organization? >> so, first, here is some data points. one, obviously, there is a huge difference between a civil case and a criminal case. and just because there is a civil case doesn't mean it's appropriate to bring a criminal case. it's just worth noting that, that you can -- one is just proof by a preponderance, more likely than not, 50%, the other would have to be if it was a criminal case, be, you know, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. that doesn't mean there shouldn't be an investigation, by the way. it's just worth noting that particular fact, that this this is a very different standard. second, as pete knows, the department of justice is not exactly the place where there are a lot of complicated,

difficult, white collar investigations, particularly in the tax division. we both worked on the paul manafort case in connection with the mueller investigation, but that had been going on between three and four years before we got the case. and it was a relatively simple case. we had it charged within, i think, about six months or so. and so, you know, it takes, you know, leadership and tenacity and vision and boldness. we were fortunate to have robert mueller at the helm pushing on all of those fronts to make sure that we got to the bottom of things. but that is just a fact of life, that, you know, there is a lot that's missed. and then the final data point is it's worth noting that letitia james and alvin bragg in their

various filingsed that there are federal crimes and federal violations that need to be explored. it's noted in letitia james' civil complaint. it was noted when amman weissberg pled guilty that he was responsible for both state and federal crimes. and in spite of that, you didn't have the doj taking action that we know of in any way, shape or form, which is unusual in -- and you really don't know what the answer is. it certainly isn't just the trump administration. that's one thing. although we know that there was some indication that the attorney general under the trump administration quashed certain parts of the investigation. but, obviously, that could have been picked up under the biden administration. but i think there was probably not a lot of appetite for

looking backwards for the same really we have talked a lot about, the garland justice department not being as forward-leaning as it should have been on the january 6th case. >> russ has a perfect follow-on about state crimes. >> yeah, that goes right into this. when you look at the remaining six counts that are being -- that are a part of this trial, violations of the new york state penal code. some of them really look like crimes. and i am wondering if, after this, that some of this evidence and some of the testimony could wind up being sucked into some sort of criminal investigation. there are cases where donald trump has testified in his depositions, as i said a couple minutes ago, that these documents he filed were worthless. many while, he is signing, you know, some sort of certification every year to the banks that he got the loans from that they are complete and accurate. that sounds awfully like bank

fraud to me. i wonder if you think this could be sucked into a criminal case on a state or federal level some day? >> there is no question if the proof were there, that this would also be a violation of criminal law because, as you correctly note, the civil charges are based on counts that could be charged civilly or criminally. but the one thing that gives me some comfort, i think the manhattan district attorney's office has looked very long and hard at this proof and i don't know the reason, but i think that people who i respect who are in that office, i think they did not think that it rose to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. now, remember, that could mean letitia james has ample justification for going forward because her standard of proof is only 50%, not well above that.

but depending how the hearing goes and what the proof is, we all may look at the -- be able to see the evidence and be able to make our own judgment about whether we think that judgment by the manhattan district attorney's office was one that we would make as well. but i think that remains to be seen just how strong the proof is, how strong any potential defenses are that might not carry the day in a civil case, but could pose real problems in a criminal case. >> i want to come back to that, the criminal cases and the intersection with the threats of political violence with you, pete, for a moment. again, we make the decision not broadcast the things that trump is walking out of court and saying because, as my colleague rachel maddow says, there is a cost to us to knowingly broadcasting the lies. it's important to understand that what he is saying to his supporters is that these trials, including this one in new york, is, quote, election interference.

and if you go back to january 6th and you go back to the trial transcripts of the defendants, they were there because they believed that election interference, election fraud had taken place. it inspired not a lone wolf, but thousands or a thousand people to violence. that word, quote, election interference, which he uttered today in front of cameras and microphones, people -- not me. i don't think anyone at this network broadcast them. but plenty of people on the right broadcast to the people who were inspired to go to on washington on january 6th, unhundreds of people. that's what he said today. i wonder what we do as a country today when the thing that inspired hundreds of people to go wielding weapons to the capitol is being uttered day after day after day. >> i think that we have to do is exactly what you are doing.

you have to call out the potential for violence behind all of these statements. i mean, the fact of the matter is, he is not complaining about the system because he is being persecuted. he is framing that in terms of i am your retribution. if they can do this to me, they can do it to you. he is never going to say, yes, if you happen to engage in massive real estate valuation fraud, if you happen to steal classified documents, if you happen to engage in election tampering, allegedly, yes, you, too, might be investigated. trump turns this into a common issue of his supporters and frames it in apocalyptic terms. we can't get tired, find ourselves slowing boiling alive and stop talking about just what a threat it is. i am still shocked. the fact that trump called for the execution of the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, who happens to be a potential witness in at least one of his trials, how little press attention that got. and that's one of so many

things. we can't be lured just because of the volume of the abuse, the volume of the calls for potential vie to say, well, we need to stop talking about it. this is something that needs to be highlighted prominently. it is not the same as hunter biden's laptop or any sort of firearms charge. they are not equivalent. they don't deserve the same spot in the newspaper or newscast and we can't take our eye off the ball of the potential for violence. >> we are almost out of time. you tickled my funny bone. andrew weissmann, we have covered the threat against chairman milley every day. we are starting with it in our 5:00 hour. this idea of numbness, it comes from both directions, right? i think on the left, people feel like nobody watching this program is going to be inspired to violence. so why do you keep talking about him? you are obscuring the biden administration's accomplishments

which is a legitimate concern. the people on right are animated by it, juiced by it, so they ignore it as well. what people miss about elections is they are determined by this really underrepresented in some ways in the media landscape as well, a group of people who follow current events pretty closely but are not necessarily part since and they do not have much of an appetite for political violence. it polls around zero among independents in america. nor do they really have an appetite for demeaning and disrespecting the men and women of the military which is the other part of the threat against milley. milley is being speared for a variety of reasons. putting his name to the wts of luis avila, a wounded veteran who sang at milley's swearing-in ceremony. i wonder what you think from sort of your law enforcement

background about how we should cover what trump did today, to utter that call, you talked about call and response, the ponce was to that call about election interference which he did today in front of cameras in new york city. >> so, you know, think think there are two separate issues. one i am qualified to speak. one i am not. there is a political dimension to it where i think, you know, i am not the best person to sort of answer what's the best way to sort of answer that. i am sort of a person to talk to about sort of how are the courts supposed to deal with this because, you know, the branch of government that is so far held up and is going to be so tested in the weeks and months to come because it's the place where we have to both uphold the rule of law and make sure that all of the participants are safe is going to be the courts.

and that's where i think pete's point about normalization and then getting enurd to these kind of language i think this is an incredible risk because it's just -- there is the risk of violence is what the court has to deal with, and that -- a defendant is not entitled to the same rights as anybody else. they have bail restrictions for good reason. they cannot be either a risk of flight or a danger to the community. those are the two standards that are sub -- that subject a defendant awaiting trial to further restrictions. and the problem is this language is something that has to be taken seriously by each of the judges who has a case involving donald trump. and they unfortunately have to do it before it's too late. they can't wait for something to happen.

>> pete, andrew, thank you for starting us off. russ, for your reporting on the story. i thank you every single time. it's the foundation of everything that we know and everything we have learned from these trials. so thank you very much for being here. still to come for us, one of the first moves of the now leaderless house gop was retribution against democrats. we will talk about the aftermath of yesterday's historic ouster of the republican speaker. that's next. r. that's next. if we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways

of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow, we're focused on making plastics better today. she found it. the feeling of finding the psoriasis treatment she's been looking for. sotyktu is the first-of-its-kind, once-daily pill for moderate-to-severe plaque psoriasis for the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding your back... is back. or finding psoriasis can't deny the splendor of these thighs. once-daily sotyktu is proven to get more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections including tb.

serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. ask your dermatologist about sotyktu for clearer skin. so clearly you. sotyktu.

after advil. feeling better? on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels.

so here on earth one, kevin mccarthy's spectacular fall from the house speakership is what it looks like, right. a file you're of mccarthy's, a failure of republican governance. in case you haven't heard, we are on earth two, a bizarre and fictional narrative is taking shape. guess who republicans are blaming? the democrats. for not saving kevin mccarthy, who on sunday smeared them for not shutting down the government, i think. forget that the vote ousts mccarthy was started and cemented by matt gaetz and his own defectors in his own caucus. republicans are actually arguing on earth two that democrats should have voted to save kevin mccarthy. now, of course, that's after he downplayed january 6th, resurrected donald trump almost single-handedly and doubled back

on multiple bipartisan legislative deals he entered into as leader. and after he spent the weekend trashing democrats, when they helped him cobble that last-minute budget stopgap measure to prevent a godcheaux, watch. >> i wasn't sure it was going to pass. the democrats tried to do everything not to let it pass. >> democrats were the ones who voted -- >> did you watch -- >> to keep the continuing resolution alive. >> did you watch the floor yesterday? >> yes. >> okay. then -- >> the republicans voted against it. >> yeah. what's up is down, what's down is up for kevin mccarthy. it's pretty lame and brazen to blame democrats for the republican caucus's isle failure to ect a leader. that he is where we are. in what looks like retaliation for not saving mccarthy, republican interim speaker patrick mchenry ordered former speaker nancy pelosi and former democratic majority leader steny hoyer out of their congressional

reassigned.ing they would be pelosi criticized the move. quote, with all of the important reblican leadership must address which we are eagerly awaiting of the first actions by the new speaker was to order me to immediately vacate my office in the capitol. nbc news correspondent ali vitali is back on capitol hill for us. and tim miller is here and former democratic congressman max rose. first, bring us up to date on where we are today. >> i am going to give the earth one update because that's where i am going to choose to live today. the earth one update is, as you say, nicole, is that we are watching this temporary speaker in mchenry sort of settle some vendetta as of the former speaker, mccarthy, doing what their explanation is on earth two, trying to retaliate against democrats for not saving

mccarthy's speakership. i think offices aside, the more interesting piece of this is the way that the republican conference puts themselves back together. because democrats at least the ones that i have spoken to, they are not here to help save them still, and this is still a family matter. if you want to think about conferences and caucuses that way. i spent the morning talking with two of the men in the race to become the next speaker, jim jordan and steve scalise, both of them are making their pitches to their colleagues, at least the ones that are left in town. they bothers, for example, made a stop at the texas delegation's lunch trying to push their credentials of what they have done the course of the last eight months. for scalise, the fact that he has been in leadership before. he is someone who controlled the floor schedule, was part of these conversations about what policies to push. jim jordan, of course, has been central on a lot of the oversight investigations pieces of this. he is one of the leaders on the impeachment inquiry. he is someone who has been

hawkish on border security. all of those are things they are trying to sell to their conference. i don't know it's going to be an easy sell for either of these folks, especially when whoever comes next is really under the same threat of motion to vacate that mccarthy himself was. it lends the question, why anyone would want this job still given the fact that the rules are as they are. i asked all of these folks that i have spoken to this morning, do you think you should change the rules? and they have dodged on that, in part because they know that this was a concession mccarthy had to make back in january to get the job in the first place. it really does leave them at an impasse for people who might want to see this building get more functional after whoever the next speaker is elected. things are going to have to hang. i am not sure they are going to clang to do that. >> your thoughts? >> this is nuts. i mean, right now you have these folks running for speaker and their principle justification to their own caucus is, is i

appease the crazies because i am crazy myself. after they saw kevin mccarthy go down -- >> crazier than kevin? >> well, the thing about kevin, what people are upset with him about, and this has been true his entire time in congress, wasn't that he is crazy, but that he was untrustworthy and a liar. so he made this deal. then he thought people would forget. and they never ultimately did. so when you don't unify your caucus with actual sheer force of the ethics and morals, it won't last. remember, nancy pelosi had a smaller margin than what kevin mccarthy had, and she held the speakership for years and made it look easy. and then the first act that the new speaker engages in is not to address inflation, not to address issues of security. it's to kick people out of -- >> the swamp. >> when you go on the capitol, these are not grand offices that, you know, that these people are in.

these are little hideaways that no one has heard of. they are so driven by petty grievance and vengeance they think that's the type of politics they should act with. >> i have to sneak in a break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. a break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back.

♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. before my doctor and i chose breztri for my copd, i had bad days, (cough, cough) flare-ups that could permanently damage my lungs. with breztri, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing. starting within 5 minutes, i noticed my lung function improved.

it helped improve my symptoms, and breztri was even proven to reduce flare-ups, including those that could send me to the hospital. so now i look forward to more good days. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. can't afford your medication? astrazeneca may be able to help. ask your doctor about breztri.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. we are back with ali, tim, and max. tim, what happens next? >> the republicans are going try to put up a more crazy person. what was it?

ctk, crazier than kevin? i want to live on earth three for a second. i am sure from the hill, you know, you will tell me this isn't possible. but here's what's happening. the republicans are giving a demand, the maga part of the conference, another shutdown fight coming up, no money for ukraine anna paulina luna, she said on her demands defunding jack smith and have having a vote for impeachment on the sham impeachment of joe biden. these are their demands. they are conspiratorial, extreme, insane, frankly. that's what the republican wants of their next speaker. and so here is my question. i keep being told by my republican friends, ones that will still talk to me, there is some normal republicans on the hill. where are they? it only takes five. we are not asking for too much. all it takes is five normal republicans to walk down the

halve the speaker jeffries' office and say, hey, we care about democracy, we want to fund ukraine, we don't want to go along with this sham impeachment of joe biden. we will cut a deal. you give us policy, border funding, budget cuts, whatever they care about. we, you know, come up with an agreement with you and they could come up with an actual speaker that would be interested in governing. that is an option. texas house did this with speaker joe straus, a good man, a moderate republican took the speakership with the help of democrats. it's only a fantasy because there aren't even five republicans in that entire 221 who are willing to say this is insane. i am not going to put an insurrectionist in the speakership. but as best as i could tell, there aren't five willing to do that. we will see. >> that's a challenge, tim, that congressman pat ryan from new

york leveraged at his five republican moderate colleagues or his several republican moderate colleagues saying if you are the majority makers, the so-called moderates who want to make the husband function do. it. come talk to us. come talk with leader jeffries. get behind him and see how we can make this place function. i love that you are saying this isn't west wing fantasy. it's not. but at the same time, even as people here talk about saving the institution and making it work for everyone, you i still think that at the end of the day partisanship wins out because that's how you fundraise, that's how you survive in primaries, that's how you move forward. it's not right. it doesn't make this building function any better. but there are people who are leveraging that challenge and throwing that gauntlet out at the so-called moderates and no one is taking it yet. >> the other piece of it is that these are political losers. shutdowns do not poll well. it means to tim's point, it

means no money for the border, no money -- the thing that gets shut off immediately is school lunches. so kids who only get a wholesome meal at school, they get breakfast and lunch, i think, that shuts off on day one of of a shutdown. that does not poll well in america. i mean, these are losers as ali is saying for the institution, because they are massive losers in front of the voters. >> absolutely. i served during the longest government shutdown in our nation's history. the thing about government shutdowns are, is that as they go longer, they become more politically painful and actually more painful on a human level as well because people actually begin to miss paychecks. so the pressure starts -- >> military. >> military. >> law enforcement. >> border. i mean -- >> air traffic control. >> on and on. and many people rightfully calling in sick. if i am not getting paid, i am not going to work. so travel becomes harder. i mean, it's really unbelievable. and to his credit, you know, this is perhaps the one ethical and moral and honest thing that

kevin mccarthy ever did, is he said that that is not -- that's a non-starter for me and i am willing to work with democrats to prevent that. and what did his party do after the fact? they literally ended his political career and his speakership. so that will be a lesson to these other republicans seeking the speakership and that makes a shutdown ever more likely in the course of next -- is it 42 days? this is a message to the american people that the republican party is unfit to lead. >> tim, what do you think of the -- you know, i'm with you on how can there not be five. that tells us all we need to know, to ali's point, if there aren't five. what do you think gets sort of salvaged in -- i saw a lot of republican on republican rhetorical violence yesterday. >> yeah. and i did a freudian slip called him speaker jeffries.

you know, look, those guys are mad at matt gaetz. if you saw garret graves, his speech, he was enraged. you know, that somebody would actually challenge them, you know, on the inside over kevin mccarthy's speakership and his policies. i was watching this yesterday gobsmacked. thinking if these republicans were as mad at donald trump for the coup, as mad as donald trump for his grifting, for nominating all these loser extreme candidates and endorsing them in primaries as they are at matt gaetz, they would be in better shape. so what can they agree to? i don't know. i have been hearing encouraging things about ukraine. biggest thing to worry about is ukraine funding because that did not make it through the last cr and the next speaker there is going to be a ton of pressure not to do it.

i think right now there is a quiet majority in the house, among the house republicans for funding ukraine. but publicly all the pressure, if you are living on the maga podcasts and tv shows, all of the pressure is no money for ukraine, no money for ukraine. we could end up where the republican house that can't govern itself is the weak link when it comes to insuring that we have funds for ukraine out of all of the countries in the western world. >> unbelievable. alley, your reporting has been fantastic. thank you for spending time with us tim, thank you. coming up next for us, the ex-commander-in-chief's contempt for veterans laid bare by a former general who worked alongside him day in and day out. we will bring you that story next. rn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪

so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance, a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. and our large networks of doctors, hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now

and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ahh, -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein 30 grams protein, one gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients for immune health. (♪♪) how's the chicken? the prawns are delicious. oh, i have a shellfish allergy.

one prawn. very good. did i say chicken wrong? tired of people not listening to what you want? it's truffle season! ah that's okay... never enough truffles. how much are they? it's a lot. oh okay - i'm good, that - it's like a priceless piece of art. enjoy. or when they sell you what they want? yeah. the more we understand you, the better we can help you. that's what u.s. bank is for. huge relief. yeah... ♪ goli, taste your goals.

♪♪ he is not a war hero. he is a war hero -- >> 5 1/2 years. >> he was captured. i like people that weren't captured, okay? i hate to tell you. there is a war hero because he was captured. okay? >> all these years later, it's not clear who is sicker, the guy who says it or the people who laugh. hi, again. it's 5:00 in new york. for his part, trump showed us who he was back then. that was in 2015. loud and clear. and proud, right? he was proud to be saying those things. if you were one of those who thought that maybe just maybe serving as commander this chief would change him, fundamentally change how he saw shows who served our nation and were captured, that it might make him

appreciate those who devoted their lives or their time or their energy to protecting the rest of us, our country, who ri their lives to defend america and americans. you would bero about that. it did nothing to change him. as we learned from the jaw-dropping revelations a piece in "the atlantic" in 2020 by jeffrey goldberg, donald ump's view as president of those who serve their country was almost unimaginably cruel. he called those americans who sacrifice their lives for the country, quote, losers and, quote, suckers. he did not ever want to see amputees, didn't want them included in military parades because, quote, donald trump said nobody wants to see that, end quote. and now for the very first time those stories are being confirmed by a man who was there when they happened in the room when it happened. it's donald trump's former white

house chief of staff, the retired u.s. marine corps general john kelly. in a searing takedown of his ex-boss, president, john kelly tells cnn, quote, what c said. that has not already been a person who thinks those who defend their country innirm or are shot down or seriously wounded in cba or spend years being tortured as pows are suckers because there is nothing in it for them? erson that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees bec quote, it doesn't look good for me. a person who demonstrated open contempt for aold star family for allold star families on tv during the 2016 campaign. an rants at our most precious heroes who gave their lives in america defense are losers and wouldn't visit their graves in france. john kelly, the first time,

putting an indictment of donald trump's character and lack of fitness on the record. never his part, donald trump was asked to comment about kelly and he said this. kelly totally clowned himself with these debunked stories he made up, end quote. so john kelly was trump's longest serving white house chief of staff and he had a personal exchange with the sident at arlington national cemetery chronn that atlantic i can pce. ea of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in america'sost recent wars. kelly's son robert is buried in section 60. a first lieutenant in the marine corps, robert kelly was killed this 2010 afghanistan. weighs 29 years old. trumea on this visit to inis chief of staff, john

in paying respects at his son's gra. and to comfort the families of othe fallen service members, but according toources with knowledge of of this vis trump, while standing at lly' grave, turned directly to his father, john kelly, and said, quote, i don't get it. what was in it for them? kelly's confirmation of trump's heinous, ugly, disrespectful past comments come as the ex-president just recently accused the country's top general, top military official, of treason. a crime he said is punishable by death. this is where we start the hour. retired four-star general and msnbc military analyst mayor barry mccaffrey, "new york times" washington correspondent mike schmidt, who writes about john kelly extensively in his book, donald trump versus the united states. joining me at the table, the founder of the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america

and host of the independent americans podcast paul rieckhoff is here. general the stories have been told before and the pain that drips off the quotes was apparent when i read them the first time. but to have john kelly, someone who seemed to have a tortured relationship between the intersection of duty and covering up the heinous nature of donald trump's character, to see him come sort of full circle on that and reveal himself as a firsthand witness to donald trump's disdain for wounded veterans and those who died serving our country is perhaps the most shocking thing about the trump story. >> yeah, we got to remember, look, john kelly, marine, enlisted marine, made sergeant, son killed in action, another son in the marine corps now.

one of the finest marines i ever met. he took that job in trump's white house only at the urging of secretary mattis who said we have to get somebody over there and through to get the white house under control. he tried to stay loyal to trump. trump was a cruel, heartless, ignorant, unpatriotic person. and i think when kelly finally fired, quit, he tried to stay off the net, you out of sheer loyalty to the institution. but this is shocking and should be taken to account by the american people. >> mike, you have written extensively about john kelly. what is your thoughts about him confirming to cnn and attributing these stories to things that he saw and heard with his own eyes and ears? >> i think that one of the great struggles of john kelly had been

how does he deal with what he saw and what he sees as his duty as a former general to stay out of politics. and he, as general mccaffrey was pointing out, is not someone you have seen or heard a lot from. he is someone that sort of wept away. he didn't write a book. he didn't give, you know, big network interviews. he is someone that sort of went on with his life and, you know, basically been teaching leadership class ace cross the country and, you know, moving into retirement. so for kelly to do this, it's something that is extraordinary for himself because he has long thought that he is a former marine general, which he is, and that those people should not be thrown into the partisan winds of the moment. they shouldn't be used in politics. they shouldn't be weighing in on who is a better candidate for

office, that they are really true to their oath. now, that discipline to the oath has led to a lot of criticism of kelly because people say why did it take you so long to say something? why didn't you speak up? why now? and i think that kelly, like a lot of former trump officials, sees what they think is a massive threat of trump coming back, and in the face of that, given all the things that have been said about trump, my guess is that john kelly said that it was worth it to sort of cross that line into weighing in publicly about something that he probably knew would be gobbled up by the political winds of the moment. >> all right. i am not sure if you can be elected president as a convicted

felon. i don't know the answer. i am positive that you cannot be elected president of the united states if everyone who decides to vote knows of your disdain for those who serve the country. >> i think that's right. and i think that's very important because trump's behavior is disgusting, dishonorable. this is who he is. we know he has no integrity. we know he has no honor. the question like in many situations in america, what do we do? we have to move past the emotion and figure out how to stop this guy as a national security threat. that's why this moment is so important because kelly, milley, mattis mcmasters, they can't just release a statement to the news and go away and watch it on tv. they have to get in the arena, tell us everything they though if it has anything to do with confidential documents and indictments in play and have to stop them politically of get this front of the cameras. they have to go on the campaign trail if necessary and they have to stand in defense of the flag, stand in defense of our

military, and i said this before i think to you and others. they can influence people on the fence. they can move independents. people in swing states. if the democrats don't figure out how to weaponize this, they should do it themselves. generals, we need you. you can't sit in the background. we need you in the arena, pushing back. they can score points. now is the time to do it. >> i think, general mccaffrey, i have had the privilege of -- to know in some ways it is unfair, right? they have served their country in ways that the vast majority of americans have not and will not and the vast majority of americans have not and will not because of what they have done. so it is unfair to add this burden to them. general milley understands because of what he witnessed and because of what he knows it is a burden he will carry. some of what he said at his farewell address on friday. >> in uniform, we are unique.

we are unique among the world's armies. we are unique among the world's militaries. we don't take an oath to a country. we don't take an oath to a tribe. we don't take an oath to a religion. we don't take an oath to a king or a queen or a tyrant or a dictator. we don't take an oath to a wanna by dictator. we don't take an oath to an individual. we take an oath to the constitution, that we are willing to die to protect it. >> so, general mccavtry, donald trump believes that that man, general mark milley, should be -- has committed treason and should be sentenced to death. john kelly, who general mully i think saw before he took the chairmanship, says this. quote, a person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who everybody selfed his country

for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for treason an expectation that someone will take action. it sounds like kelly is accusing trump of knowing exactly what he is doing with the accusation of treason and the articulation of punishment by death. >> you and i have talked about this before. there was zero question in my mind the moment following trump losing the election, 8 million popular votes, clearly no judicial inquiry ever showed any massive fraud, that he was actively plotting and trying to carry out a coup against the u.s. government, against the constitution. mark milley, trump fired secretary esper, a very fine man. sent over retired lieutenant colonel, a gang of thugs, there was an acting homeland security. he tried to fire the cia director. there was an acting fbi

director, if i remember. there was an active ongoing attempt to seize control with the cooperation of some republican congressmen on the hill. to seize control of the government. not leave office. astonishing. so mark milley said, as he should have, at age 17 i was sworn into the armed forces and we all understood the rule of law, constitutional dictates. so we are faced with a rel dilemma right now. trump is a major threat to the governance of the united states, to our democracy, the rule of law. and mark milley, thankfully, hockey player, you know, very bright, very well read, a man of honor, tons of time in combat, shot at with real bullets, stood up and helped stop a coup against the united states. >> you know, mike, your reporting on kelly precedes

chairman milley's retirement in coming out. but i wonder if you think that there is something about the solidarity and the bonds among these men who saw trump -- i mean, i think kelly describes him as the most damaged human he has ever seen. mattis describes him as the first president in his lifetime he never tried to unite the public. retired four-star generals after january 6th said the president commander-in-chief trump abdicated his duty to serve. i mean, is there a tipping point where the direct threats of violence against one is something that they feel they have to defend against together? >> i think that from kelly's perspective, when he sees things that are so eregionous, that are beyond politics, he is going to be willing to weigh in. he is going to be willing to speak out and answer sort of factual questions about what went on.

and that when there are things like accusing the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, someone who kelly has a lot of respect for, of treason, that would certainly, as we have seen here, be a triggering event where kelly would answer questions. he did this last year to me after something had come up about trump, and i sent him some questions about trump's attempts to weaponize the government. and he answered factual questions about how trump wanted to use the irs and the fbi against his enemies, like hillary clinton and jim comey. so as things go along and as trump says things and does things that are probably beyond partisan politics, that sort of cut to the heart of the country's democracy, i think kelly has seen that as a way in for him to answer what my guess is he would say are factual questions about what he knows

and what he saw. and that's probably my best guess about why he ended up where he did. he probably saw what trump said about milley as just beyond the pale. >> mike, i have to ask you. does that extend to congressional investigations? i am sure there are many on the senate side where they still control the body. about you if the senate were to open investigations, is kelly someone willing to testify against his former boss and the people around him if he is asked to? >> as kelly has come out, he has responded to different subpoenas that have come out in litigation related to different matters from the justice department. nothing related to the criminal investigations of trump, but civil things, and john kelly being who john kelly is would certainly respond to any type of normal legal requests from congress to answer questions.

to my knowledge, the democrats have never leaned on kelly. but you have to remember, kelly is someone who knows a lot of the secrets and inner workings of what went on in the administration, including questions that we still don't, as a public or reporters, have answers to, like what held up jared kushner's security clearance? kelly was at the heart of that issue and was deeply involved in that. so he is someone who could answer a lot of questions for congress about the unanswered things of the trump ear arnlts this gets into something you say, paul. the democrats have the facts on their side. on this issue, i don't even know that they poll on support for wounded veterans. i imagine it's 100% of all americans support and revere those who have died or been injured serving their country. and trump's on the other side of 100% of americans.

you are also a strategist. what does that story look like that you tell the military? >> we used to have a saying. babies, puppies, and vets. you don't cross babies, puppies, and vets. it's so toxic in politics. we have to remember how remember how swift they were in attacking john kerry. this is a winning issue if you strategize around it. yesterday was a really good day for vladimir putin. right? our enemies are celebrating what is happening in this country much of the chaos in washington, the speaker goes down, the attacks on our military. this has been a good week for putin. and everyone needs to step up right now and fight back. i know the generals don't want to get involved in politics, but they are in politics. they decided to take these jobs and they have to continue to fight until the fight is over. and if they won't, then republicans and democrats need to pull them in. subpoena them. ask them to testify. jack smith shouldk knocking on

their door. it's about our national security and the future of our democracy. stakes have never been higher. now is not the time to keep any powder dry. >> general mccaffrey, we are always lucky to talk to you. thank you for starting us off. mike schmidt, thank you for joining us and your reporting. thank you for coming back w he plan to have this conversation yesterday but chaos endude and we had to put it off. when we come back, we will continue it with one of the earliest targets of the disgraced four times indicted ex-president's attacks on the men and women of the military. where donald trump revealed his true colors about how little he thought of the service and more importantly the sacrifice made for our country. gold star father kaiser khan will be our guest after a very short break. later, fani willis' moves in the fulton county rico case against

trump. what it means she is offering plea deals to some of the lower level defendants as she zeros in on the biggest fish. stay with us. s she zeros in on the biggest fish. stay witush fulton county. fani willis. fulton county. fani willis. . okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) ever notice how stiff clothes with 30 grams can feel rough on your skin?n. for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle

downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. we got the house! you did! pods handles the driving. pack at your pace. store your things until you're ready. then we deliver to your new home - across town or across the country. pods, your personal moving and storage team.

you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? it's true. plus, when you buy your first line of mobile, you get a second line free. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. it's happening.

this is now well established. donald trump's not so secret disdain and lack of respect for the men and women of the military as well as their families is established and well documented. among the very first shocking illustrations of the true depths of his moral depravity was the completely unnecessary public feud with the khan family.

you may recall our nation first had the pleasure of meeting the khan family in the midst of a 2016 presidential election. humayun khan was an american hero, posthumously awarded the purple heart and bronze star for saving the lives of civilians and his fellow soldiers in iraq in 2004. his parents delivered a speech for the history books at the democratic national convention about trump's opposed temporary ban on muslims entering the united states of america. and for that they became a target of trump. and targets of his supporters. it was one of the first indications that for trump there was no bottom. that nothing in american life was sacred. not even an american gold star family. and their son. joining us khizr khan, father of humayun khan. it is a trivial to get to talk to you. i watched your speech in the

studio sitting next to my col leak rachel maddow and joy reid and others and we wept for your son's heroic life and your and your wife's loss. we are grateful anew for you taking a seat in the arena. and i wanted to talk to you when i saw another general, general john kelly, confirming what i think many of us have thought for a long time, that trump lacks the character and the adequate respect and reverence for men like your son and people like you and your wife. i wander if this is painful all over again for you? >> nicole, thank you. i am delighted to join you. and to speak with you. what do we expect of someone who thinks service can only be self-service? he has no concept.

trump has no concept of living and dying for others as he has demonstrated. we asked him, as you mentioned, in 2016, about sacrifice and that he knew nothing of what it means. the intervening eight years have proven that we were right, and now all of the world knows about my son. and that is what concerns me now. some continue to think otherwise. those who elected him. those ho are supporting him now. i want to say this from the bottom of my heart that a person who has never sacrificed is

incapable of love. love of country, love of purpose, love of their fellow human beings. trump is nothing but just appetite and ego. i wish to pay tribute to general kelly and his family. general kelly not only has served as general of this country, but he is a gold star father as well. and to other military leaders that have served this country with distinction and with honor. we stand with you. this country stands with our generals, our armed forces, and we are saddened to hear the remarks that trump had continued

to make during when he was in the white house and thereafter. that confirms our assessment that this person is incapable of leadership, leadership of a great country like the united states. >> what -- there is a difficult dynamic where those of us who have never served do not have the right to ask more of those who have, but your family made the ultimate sacrifice, and what is your wish for people like chairman milley and like john kelly who know firsthand that what you said was true, what you were attacked for saying was true. what is your hope they could to make sure that all americans understand trump's fundamental lack of fitness to be the commander-in-chief?

>> well, has already been said in your program, that there comes a time when we need to stand for the cause that is so dear and near to us, our military generals are the true asset of this country and they need to stand and they need to loudly and proudly make sure that an individual like trump is not even getting close to the white house. they are speaking. i'm hopeful that they will speak more and they will speak frequently and they will speak loudly. nicole, we know all too well the danger of trump's violence and

ritual can cause. i and my family have gone through that. but we also know, and answering your question, just a footnote to it, we also know the love and care that we were surrounded by -- i begin to lose my composure when i think of the amazing love and care that we were surrounded when we were attacked by trump. by the men and women in uniform and their families. how can we be afraid, now i'm speaking of our generals, how can we be afraid to not speak as we have experienced that our sons and daughters in uniform and our veterans and their

families, they had continued to stand with us and support us. that is the good country and good america that we live in. our generals, our military leaders and our other leaders have an obligation to stand and reject trump running for office again. that is my hope. that is my wish. and i am certain that these leaders that have served this country with distinction, with valor, will stand one more time to stop this. >> your words, and i have heard them before and i remember them from your speech, about love of country, just make me lose my composure every single time that your family lost the most

precious person to you and you still believe in all of it. it's just the most inspiring thing i could imagine. thank you so much for spending time with us on what has to be a painful story. but we are so grateful. thank you. >> thank you, nicole. good to speak with you. >> good to see you. when we come back, there is news out of fulton county, georgia, to tell you about. and it is big. d.a. fani willis is floating plea deals to several of the disgraced ex-president's co-defendants. rudy giuliani is now left without a legal team there. those stories after a very short break. after a very short break. cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪

with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ahh, -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein 30 grams protein, one gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients for immune health. (♪♪) family is just very important. she's my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. ♪♪ it's a battle, you know i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you have advanced nonsquamous,

non-small cell lung cancer and you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation, or have a nervous system problem. it feels good to be here for them. living longer is possible. it's tru. keytruda from merck. ask your doctor about keytruda.

. election interference case entering the latest and clearly fascinating phase, insight in fulton county district attorney fani willis' strategy. working up from the bottom with lower level defendants to zero in on the biggest targets of her investigation. it comes in light of the first of the disgraced ex-president's 18 co-defendants to flip. that happened friday while we were on the air and ahead of the first trial for two of the defendants, sidney powell and kenneth chesebro to whom fulton county prosecutors signaled they may extend plea deals. it now according to the "atlanta journal-constitution," fulton county prosecutors are floating plea deals to a, quote,umber of other defendants from that new reporting.

quote,teast a handful of the now 18 defendants have rec offers from the district attorney's offic prosecutors have taswith their attorneys to gauge their general interest in striking a deal for a reduced charge in exchange for their cooperation. people who were indicted for their alleged rolesn the appointment of a sla of trump electors, electn data breach and haras of fulton pole worker ruby freeman have been apoached by prosecutors according to multiple sources. in the case of at least two of those defendants, no concrete offer has been made. joining our conversation "atlanta journal-constitution" political reporter greg bluestein and former deputy assistant u.s. attorney general greg litman. greg, we don't get a lot of peeks into fani willis' sort of trial strategy. but it is, i guess, fair to wonder if she is trying to, one,

flip some of these lower fish so that she has more ammunition, more evidence for trying some of the bigger targets. >> yeah. this confirms what a lot of legal experts thought was happening behind the scenes, which was a handful of those 18 remaining co-defendants are receiving offers of a deal or overtures of a deal from prosecutors to gauge their interest on how willing they could be to cooperate. legal experts always thought that some of these co-defendants, especially some of those with lower level offenses, could be used to flip against and to testify against some of the higher targets. we imagine donald trump is up there. so is rudy giuliani. so is mark meadows. so are some of the other higher-profile defendants. one of them is michael roman, who is a trump campaign operative accused of helping to organize the fake gop electors slate. he confirmed or his legal team confirmed to my colleague that he rejected a plea deal from

prosecutors. so that was at least one who has gone -- his legal team went on the record saying he is saying no to a plea deal. >> harry, what should we understand about the strategy that is underway, if this is indeed taking place? >> first, that it's conventional. this is what you would expect in a large defendants trial. the previous most celebrated instance of a rico by fani willis against educators, there were 35 defendants initially charged, and 12 eventually did not played and went to trial. but, second, nicole, this really is not the kind of favorable posture one looks for in this situation. once one -- once the dam has broken, as it did with scott hall's plea, you sort of expect defendants to be, you know, leaving footprints on each other's backs in a scramble to get to the prosecution. instead, we are hearing that they are making overtures and, indeed, some of them are being

rejected. so that she is trying is not a surprise. it's a little bit of a surprise that there is no material kind of new person yet, but it's only been a week, less than a week since scott hall pleaded. >> yeah. greg, you talked us through this as it broke before we came on the air friday. scott hall was charged for his role in that break-in in coffee county. are those people that touched that part of the plot a particular focus for the overtures, or is it in your understanding more broad? >> yeah, we're told that those overtures came to involve the defendants involved in that coffee county elections data breach also those involved in the fake gop elector plot and those who were accused of harassing fulton county election worker ruby freeman. and so we have got several of the tendrils of the case, you

know, a lot of focus has gone on the higher profile phase of the case and donald trump's call, georgia officials like brian kemp, the governor, secretary of state brad raffensperger. these are also important tendrils. some overlap. as we talked about earlier, scott hall not only was alleged to be involved in the coffee county data breach burke also he purported at least prosecutors say to be an agent of the donald trump campaign during the pressure campaign against georgia election officials here and really elsewhere around the country. >> yeah. proffered planes and whatnot. no one is going anywhere. we have to fit in a break. we'll be right back. ight back.

this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ ) at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and

hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) woah. ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals,

nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. (♪♪) and you realize you're in love...

steve? with a laundry detergent. (♪♪) gain flings. seriously good scent. harry. another georgia "dateline" story. rudy giuliani has lost his local counsel there. he is reported to be searching for more. but i think we talk about people susceptible to cooperation agreements and plea deals being the little fish. it could also be the financially destitute ones. what do you think rudy's legal position is today? >> he seems to have bottomed out with no prospects of climbing back up. he has been suedly lawyers he was close to. he stiffed ruby freeman and shaye moss, notwithstanding a direct court command. i think he is really in woeful shape. when i think about this case, i always think about the singular

fact that it's been charged as a rico. so somebody like roman can think, you know what? they are going to have do a four-month trial first, so i don't have the time pressure and i can see a dress rehearsal. the one person that's an exception for that, sidney powell, going to trial soon. she is the person i would be watching most closely. she could also inculcate giuliani and crack the case wide open. i think that's distincttich here is that this rico charge changes the normal dynamic on co-defendants both in terms of speed and offers. the only thing that would change that if there was a real race to the prosecutor's door. even without that, sidney powell has things to lose and soon because hall, who has pleaded guilty, can inculcate her in coffee county i imagine there is some gamesmanship. someone says no in hopes of a better deal.

there is a diminishing incentive on the prosecutor's side, right, once you have -- they already have someone on the inside of coffee county breach. inside each faction i imagine in you get one cooperator, there is a diminishing return for subsequent ones? >> exactly. and remember, fani willis is no stranger to this technique. when she was involved in the atlanta public school cheating trial a decade ago, she was one of the lead attorneys on that, 35 educators were indicted and 12 ended up going to trial. many of the others took plea deals. there was an ongoing trial right now involving alleged strategy street gang ysl. 28 were charged. seven defendants remain she is used to cutting deals, used to trying to flip defendants and go after the bigger fish. >> you know, you brought up the two trials that are -- that start this month. harry, what do you think the prospects are that both of them stand? do you think that those two are the ones right now most

incentivized to take a plea deal? >> well, chesebro doesn't -- no one who pleaded has really strong stuff against him. in general, i think we can read between the lines that fani willis is offering deals at this sort of georgia level. but it so happens that powell, the other person who will go because she is invoked her speedy trial rights, is implicated by hall. and another interesting fact to add to what ken said. hall had an hour-plus conversation with jeff clark. so it's all about who on this georgia level might penetrate the higher-ups in washington. i think chesebro would be happy to go to trial alone. but sidney powell now has a stronger case against her and that's where i'm going to be watching. >> i mean, hall has -- he is jeff clark's man in georgia, greg, as we talked about on friday. he definitely has the goods on jeffrey clark and others in washington.

>> he has the goods on jeffrey clark. he has the goods on sort of the higher-level reaches of -- at least it seems of the trump campaign and that link to the defendants who are accused of getting -- breaching secure election data in rural coffee county, georgia. i am also watching what happens with the fake electors, the three fake electors who were indicted. the special grand jury recommended charges against all 16. three were indicted. several others are cooperating with prosecutors. and the georgia republican party filed paperwork recently indicating it's been more than $1 million on legal fees, much of it going to fend off these indictments, these legal charges against three of its members. >> greg, do you have any visibility into rudy giuliani's efforts to find a new lawyer in georgia? >> we have heard from legal -- from lawyers here in georgia that they -- the net has been cast wide and far, but some of

the best defense attorneys have already been snapped up, or they're conflicted out for other reasons. so, there's plenty of attorneys to go, of course, but i've heard from several saying they wouldn't touch that case at all. >> with the proverbial ten-foot pole. greg, harry, thank you so much for spending time with us on this. quick break for us. we'll be right back. this quick break for us we'll be right back.

ugh, this guy again... pops! ay son! ya got a little somethin' on yuh face. needed a quick shave. quick shave? respect the process! it ain't my dad's razor, dad, it's from gillettelabs. gillette...labs? gillette's ultimate shaving experience. this green bar releases trapped hairs from my face. gamechanga! while the flexdisc contours to it. lookin' smooth. feelin' even smoother. how 'bout hookin' me up with some gillettelabs? check your texts. you're the best. nah, you're the best. the best a man can get keeps getting bettuh. the next generation of shaving is gillettelabs. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting)

(pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up. fed up with the fact that hunger robs children of their childhood. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help.

now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org today. please raise your right hand and repeat after me.

do you solemnly swear that you will support and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic? that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the same? that you take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion and that you will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which you are about to enter, so help you god? >> i will. >> congratulations. congratulations. >> this is chaos in the history of removing a speaker for the first time ever was being made at the capitol yesterday, on the other side, another kind of history was being made. that kind of history. it's the new senator from california, laphonza butler. she was sworn in by vice president kamala harris, butler making history as the first black lgbtq u.s. senator. she was appointed to the seat after the death of dianne feinstein. butler has spent her life in

political organizing and public service, working for the service employees international union for more than a decade before being appointed as a university of california regent. she most recently served as the president of emily's list, an organization that helps pro-abortion rights women get elected to office. senator butler, being sworn in by vice president harris, holds particular significance. no black woman has served in the senate since harris stepped down to become the vice president. butler also served as an advisor to harris in her 2020 campaign. another break for us. we'll be right back. 2020 campan another break for us we'll be right back. i. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission

and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. so i didn't think i needed swiffer, until, i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it! only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick, for amazing trap & lock. even for his hair. wow. and for dust, i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact, up high and all around without having to lift a thing.

i'm so hooked. you'll love swiffer. or your money back! ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ the power goes out and we still have wifi and help life uto do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online.

only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network.

since last wednesday,we have heard from a lot of you asking whether and when our entire interview with cassidy hutchinson would be available online. we are happy to report that that whole conversation is now up on youtube. you can follow the link right there on your screen. hope you'll check that out. for our part, we want to thank you for letting us into your homes once again during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with katie phang, in for ari, starts right now. hi, katie. >> thanks, nicole. it's always so good to see you. >> have a good show. >> thank you. and welcome to "the beat," i'm katie phang in for ari melber. today, after a gang of republicans toppled their own speaker in a historic act of self-imlation, confusion and chaos ruled the house gop. the are the headlines americans woke up to. the republicanaucus is "fled state." the gop majority has left the body "paralyzed."