here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. that does it for me. be sure to catch the katie phang show right here on msnbc. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i don't have a lot of advise for my house colleagues other

than this, follow your heart but take your brain with you. i would also advise all of my house colleagues to be sure and take their meds. >> senator john kennedy, republican from louisiana, with some good advice, following kevin mccarthy's historic and humiliating ouster. meaning even some republicans realize their party is a mess. and utterly incapable of governing. also tonight on day three of his fraud trial, donald trump high tails it back to florida. and new york attorney latitia james says she's had enough of his attacks and lies, declaring that the donald trump show is over. and we begin tonight with a crisis of governance in the house of representatives. at a time when the nation and the world are facing some very serious problems. today, 75,000 u.s. health professionals went on strike

over work conditions and pay. autoworkers are still strikes and awaiting their fair pay. the climate crisis is flooding major cities. gun violence rages on including just last night in baltimore, as a shooter wounded four students at morgan state university. and ukraine is facing a possible cutoff in u.s. funding as it fights to keep from being swallowed whole by russia. on top of all of that, there is another very real threat of a government shutdown. this time on november 17th. leaving congress with 31 working days to figure out an actual long-term budget. not just a temporary extension like the one that we got this week. but instead of addressing any of those issues, the republican chaos caucus in the house decided to fire their speaker to punish him for getting the extension and then to recess for the rest of the week. and that really shouldn't surprise you because republicans

have been focussed on the bigger issues, like banning books, targeting the lgbtq community, restricting abortion access and ginning up a manufactured impeachment inquiry to own the libs at president biden. important kitchen table stuff. you would think after firing the first speaker ever in u.s. history, republicans would pause for a bit of self reflection. but note, they're plunging deeper into chaos and acrimony. in fact, just hours after he lost the gavel, kevin mccarthy started settling scores, including blaming speaker pelosi for his failures. patrick mchenry immediately evicted pelosi from her offices in the capitol. nbc news viewed an email to pelosi's staff ordering her to move out of the work space by today. pelosi wasn't in the capitol during kevin's ouster. she's in san francisco saying good-bye to her good friend, the late senator dianne feinstein.

whose sucessor now senator laphonza butler was sworn in by kamala harris because the senate actually functions. this morning, back on the looney tune sides of the capitol, former democratic majority leader hoyer was also evicted from his office. guess who is moving into pelosi's old office, kevin mccarthy. republicans were paying petty games, president biden was saying, hey, guys, maybe instead do your jobs. >> the house will now reorganize and select a new speaker. i know it's going to take some time. but i remind everyone, we have a lot of work to do and the american people expect us to get it done. we need to change the poisonous atmosphere in washington. we have strong disagreements, but we need to stop seeing each other as enemies. we need to talk to one another. listen to one another. work with one another. and we can do that. >> so biden is doing his job, announcing another round of federal student loan

forgiveness, helping 125,000 borrowers erase $9 billion in debt. want to know what else president biden did yesterday while republicans were tearing each other to shreds? he got major drug companies to commit to participating in medicare drug price negotiations with the federal government. you know, the important stuff. and while biden keeps bidening, the chaos caucus is leaderless. marjorie taylor greene another maga croies are floating donald trump as the next speaker. according to sean hannity, a trump confidant, he might be open to helping. yeah, but about that. the republican own house rules state in black and white that a member of the republican leadership shall step aside if indicted for a felony, for which a sentence of two or more years imprisonment may be imposed. last i checked, trump has 91 of those. we all know they're happy to break the rules for trump.

but here in the real world, the chaos caucus still has to find someone who can do the job without getting fired by them. and they're facing a choice of bad and worse. earlier this afternoon, majority leader steve scalise, who literally called himself david duke without the baggage, announced that he is a candidate for speaker. and judiciary chairman loud talker jim jordan, repeatedly ignored subpoenas, asked trump for a pardon and accused by a number of sexual assault victims ignoring their pleas for help while he was a coach at ohio state university has also announced his run for speaker. both, by the way, voted to overturn the election on january 6th, of course. joining me now, is congresswoman jasmine crock et of texas, former senator and msnbc analyst claire mccaskill and brendan buck a former aide to speakers john boehner and paul ryan, fortuitous booking on tonight. but i do want to start with you,

congress woman crockette, you have really to me displaying and embodying the vast difference in quality, if i can just be blunt between democrats and the current crop of republicans. i mean, you've been out there eloquently just slaying and so i'll give you credit for that and give you your flowers for that. but i also want to ask you a question i asked a member yesterday. if there was some opportunity for kevin to save his job, let me just play gerry connolly, congressman jerry mcconley saying what kevin did wrong. take a look. >> i think it goes in political 101 textbooks going forward as maybe one of the most stupid things somebody could do to thoroughly trash democrats for providing the overwhelming support for the continuing resolution that he supported and put on the floor saturday was a

huge misstep. >> congress woman, what do you make of the fact that that's what kevin is doing, blaming democrats for kicking him out when republicans kicked him out? >> absolutely. listen, mccarthy, he actually created this monster, right? as many people have said, nancy pelosi didn't have these types of problems when she was speaker. you pointed out what the rules say. they continue to box themselves in and mccarthy negotiated a way, anything that would have protected him. he shouldn't have had to look to democrats. and if you needed to look to democrats, then maybe pick up the phone, call democrats and make a deal. a deal that will make sure that we move this country forward instead, all they want to do is pass messaging bills, bills that are dead on arrival when they get to the senate and absolutely will never make it to the president. and we honestly aren't playing chess. we are -- i'm sorry, we're not playing checkers with them, we have been playing chess the entire time. play foolish games, you get foolish rewards.

so that's where they are. >> it is stunning to me. i'm just going to play it. this is kevin mccarthy blaming speaker -- she's not even speaker anymore. nancy pelosi who was out of town when he got kicked out. here he is saying the lady who was in san francisco took me out. >> nancy pelosi came to me, she was speaker at the time on the way out, and i told her i was having issues with getting enough votes. what's the problem? they want this one person can rule you out. she said, just give it to them. i will always back you up. i made the same offer to boehner and same thing to paul. because i believe in the institution. i think today was a political decision by the democrats. and i think -- i think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution. >> he goes on to say, claire, that what the democrats did to

hurt the institution was put in magnetometers after january 6th, after the house was sacked by a mob. and that, you know, being not nice to people who were insurrectionists and taking people off their committees for threatening or mocking the idea of killing another member. and those things just hurt the institution and it's nancy pelosi's fault. she did put out statement saying the speaker of the house is chosen by the majority party in the congress. it's the responsibility of the house republicans to choose the nominee. blaming speaker pelosi seems like the weakest of the weak ideas i've ever heard, claire. your thoughts. >> well, here is the deal. he can't have it both ways because he didn't ask for the democrat's support. he didn't want the democrat's support front street. he wanted some kind of magical fairy dust to float through that side of the capitol and just empower the democrats to save

somebody who opened an impeachment inquiry with no evidence. who ran to mar-a-lago and kissed the ring. and who has tried to blame democrats for everything that is absolutely at the feet of the chaotic, crazy caucus within the republican house caucus. so, either he should have -- first of all, there's four cardinal rules, right? four cardinal rules. keep your word. keep your word. count votes. negotiate from strength if you don't have the votes. well, when he counted the votes he knew he didn't have the votes. so did he negotiate from strength? did he come to the democrats and say, let's figure out a way to -- no, he didn't do that. but then when he doesn't do that, he wants to blame them. it is why he is not a leader. he didn't follow any of the four cardinal rules. >> well, and also, be strong enough to name the people who

did it to you instead of attacking the eight republicans who got together to kick them out he is attacking the lady who is out of town, i'm going to take your office. even she doesn't care. she was like, i don't care where i'll sit. sit me wherever you want me to sit. i don't care. let me go to you, brendan. welcome to the show. i have to be honest, i was not a fan of either of your two bosses, boehner or ryan. but the thing that people used to say about paul ryan is that he was an intellectual. there isn't -- and i struggle today. i asked -- think of -- i cannot think of a republican in that caucus, in the house, who i would accuse of that. isn't that the problem that the quality level -- and your bosses dealt with these people, too, from the tea party era. let's play a little bit of what the tea party looked like. these are the people that your former bosses paul ryan and john boehner had to deal with. we have some video of what the tea party looked like. this crowd elected the tea party and then maga made that even

more extreme. isn't that the problem brendan, the quality level of the people in the house of republicans? >> well, certainly the conference drifted to the right. there's no question about that. yeah, it's hard to get good people to run for office these days. i don't know why if you're a potential recruit considering running for office you would want to come join this conference. now, i do think, of course,ly say it is unfair to say there are no good or smart people in the house republican conference. i'm sure you're not familiar with every single one of them. there are still good people who want to do good things but a lot of forces and really bad incentives. some of the incentives we saw that led to kevin mccarthy's ouster that rule in place. matt gaetz went against the 90% of his conference and will pay no price for it whatsoever. he will only get benefits. and this has gone back a long ways. the first person that i attribute this kind of thing to, remember when joe wilson yelled you lie at the obama state of the union? instead of becoming an outcast, he became really popular and everybody wanted him at his

fundraisers and he raised lots of money. that kind of incentive structure led to a place where no one cares about leadership. no one is fearful of leadership. they all operate under their own banner. and leads to chaos like this where we simply can't govern. >> but let me ask you this because name for me five. you only need five republicans who will go across to hakeem jeffries and say let's form a coalition. we'll have a speaker who is a moderate. there's not five. tim miller was on earlier. he said he can't think of five. i can't think of one who i would say is a jasmine crockette who could get up and, you know -- who could do what jamie raskin does. i really would like for you to name me five of them that i should call and book. >> mike fitzpatrick, don bacon, mike lawler. >> not insurrectionists? >> yes, correct. patrick mchenry. patrick mchenry is a very good, honest person with integrity. he is a good, stand-up person

and anybody who knows him would -- >> could one of them run for speaker? do you think one of them could become speaker? >> no because that's not how the conference is built. that's not what the conference is looking for. but that's the case of any house of representatives. you can't have a speaker who relies on the minority for their job. i think that's what kevin mccarthy realized why he didn't negotiate. you are no longer speaker of the house when you don't control 218 votes he can't count on the minority to carry him that way. that's why he didn't bother to reach out. >> jasmine, you're in this caucus. you are with these folks. to brendan's point, he does make a good point, people who control the caucus are marjorie green, lauren boebert when she is not at beetle juice being weird, those are the people who actually run the caucus. have you seen a coalition of republicans that you all could go to and say, give us five of you and we will form a coalition? do you know of any of those

folks who would be willing to do that? >> i don't know of any but i think the best of the republican party is not on display. and unfortunately they never put their best forward. there are some people that i absolutely believe are a lot better than the people that are stepping up and want to control this crazy caucus. there is no controlling this caucus. and so long as this rule stays in place, which those same eight most likely will vote to keep this rule in place, they still need to talk to democrats. you need to talk to democrats if you want a rule change and hold on to your job. you need to talk to democrats if you actually want to pass a budget. there are those that do not care about keeping the government open. i keep trying to tell people that people are always talking about the enemy from on the outside, but let me be clear, there are enemies within that are tearing us apart and that's what you saw. that's why we're seeing history play out in such a negative way. but they definitely have better. but when it comes to things like oversight and what you saw as it relates to the president, let me

be clear, the republicans have all the braun, they have the numbers. by we definitely are have the brains when it comes specifically to that committee. >> let me go to you, claire, on this. you dealt with a similar sort of world in the senate where it's even drifted that way. how do these incentive structures change? because if there are people as both of our learned guests have said, that could theoretically form a sanity caucus with democrats, the last five speakers -- last five republican speakers this is how it's gone for them. paul ryan stepped down and resigned because he was so fed up with them. john boehner was like, i'm done. he stepped down as well. we know dennis that'sert hard his issues with child molestation and he had to go. newt gingrich stepped down after disappointing midterm elections and scandal. that's their last five speakers. is there a way to change the incentive structure, the decent people, people who are not nuts and don't want to overthrow the government can actually have some power on the republican

side? or is it too late. >> well, it's really hard with gerrymandering in the house. what you don't have in the senate. every senator represents a whole state. and there are still states that will elect either a democrat or a republican. those members have an incentive to find common ground. but let's look at nancy mace. you know, her name should be on everybody's lips. give me a break. she can't decide who she is. she barely won her congressional seat. defeated an incumbent democrat by a hair in 2020. what did the republicans do? they gerrymandered south carolina and made sure that her district was comfortably republican. so the only thing she has to worry about now is a primary. so her incentive structure has her on steve bannon's show with matt gaetz today. we should never talk to her about her moderate stance on squat because she has thrown in

with the crazy of the craziest and all she's worried about now is winning a primary because of blatant gerrymandering in her state. and as long as you do that, when i came to the senate, joy, there were probably two dozen, maybe even more seats in the house that could have gone either way. we're down now to a handful. and when you have that, then the incentive structure goes awry if you don't have strong leadership, like hakeem jeffries or nancy pelosi. >> and last one to you, brendan, this is a quick one. i think of elise stefanic who completely flipped her entire persona to become like donald trump. the incentive structure says become trump. become like him. fake it and pretend to be him. be an insurrectionist. i'll ask you, this is your party, how do you change that structure as long as donald trump is out there and really controlling everything that the party does? >> yeah. i like to say that i don't think

anything is forever in politics. but i don't think it changes as long as donald trump is roaming this earth. we are -- even take him away. say he's not running for president. everybody is still playing his same style of politics. >> that's right. >> this is -- until republican voters decide they want something else, and maybe we'll reach a breaking point. maybe we have to get to a breaking point where we get voted out of office again and having hard conversations, but we're very bad at learning lesson. we lost the senate, the house and white house. i'm not optimistic in the short-term. long-term we will adapt and will evolve because we have to for our survival. it's hard to be optimistic after what we saw this week. >> i'm optimistic because you said my favorite thing. the voters. voters have to demand better quality. you have to demand better quality. and you have to come out and vote for better quality if you want your party back republicans. you have to vote for higher quality folks that have a little more backbone. that's the only answer. i think that's correct. congress woman jasmine

crockette, thank you. former senator claire mccaskill, thank you as always. brendan buck, thank you and welcome to the show. up next on "the reidout" -- donald trump was back in court for day three of his fraud trial as prosecutors in the federal election case show a renewed interest in rudy giuliani's drinking. "the reidout" continues. my dry eye's made me a burning, stinging, 5-times-a-day,... ...makeup smearing drops user. i want another option that's not another drop.

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♪♪ i guess you can call it a win for judge arthur engoron in donald trump's civil fraud trial. since imposing his partial gag order yesterday, trump was no longer attacking the judge's court staff. just offering up his usual attacks on the judge and new york attorney general latitia james. >> i have a corrupt attorney general that communicates with the doj in washington to keep me nice and busy. the judge already knows what he's going to do. he's a democrat judge. in all fairness to him, he has no choice. he has no choice. he's run by the democrats. our whole system is corrupt. this is corrupt. atlanta is corrupt. and what's coming out of d.c. is corrupt. >> wow. today james clapped back at trump's repeated attacks. >> mr. trump's comments were offensive. they were baseless. they were void of any facts and/or any evidence. what they were were comments

that unfortunately fomented violence, and comments that i would describe as race baiting and i will not sit idly by and allow anyone to subvert the law. and lastly, i will not be bullied. and so mr. trump is no longer here. the donald trump show is over. this was nothing more than a political stunt. >> wow. mic drop. trump did call it quits after the court -- at the courthouse when they broke for lunch today. but not before his legal team appealed to judge engoron's ruling last week that found trump liable for fraud by massively overvaluing his assets and net worth for years. and as the third day of trial wrapped, the first two witnesses, two of trump's former accountants, were still on the stand. the prosecution has 26 more witnesses to call. meanwhile, trump's team claims they plan to call 127 witnesses to testify. joining me now is paul butler, georgetown law profess sore and

msnbc legal analyst. i know why donald trump is so pissed off, paul. he's off the forbes list. for the second time in three years. he's being exposed as not being as rich as people thought he was. and that's why he's mad, don't you think? >> and latitia james is hitting him where it hurts. she is mainly responding to donald trump in court and kicking his butt. last week the judge said that there was overwhelming evidence, just based on the documents that trump submitted, that he's a fraud and a cheat. so, the main issue before the judge now is how much money donald trump has to pay. if it's anywhere near that 250 million that latitia james is asking for, trump will have to sell trump tower. he'll have to liquidate his assets. this is about protecting the taxpayers of new york. because it's going to be their money quite soon. >> any chance -- does he have any shot on appeal? >> i don't think so. again, the judge knows that every move he makes is going to

be subject to scrutiny by the court of appeals. so he is being extra careful. again, these cases are mainly proved on documents. documents don't lie. >> yeah. let's go to fulton county. plea deals. at least a handful of the now 18 defendants received offers from d.a. fani willis, her office or they touched base with their attorneys to gauge their general interest in striking a deal. late last week we know scott hall, the bail bondsman struck a plea deal. what are the chances of getting one of the big ones, like the kraken lady, sidney powell? >> there will certainly be other people who make pleas. there's a supreme court case in which justice kennedy said we don't have a trial system in the united states. we have a plea bargain system. about 90% of people who are charged with crimes plead guilty. and we know in rico cases fani willis has one going on now where alleged gang members are charged. 21 of them have already pled guilty. scott hall got a really good deal. he was facing 20 years based on

these rico charges. he's pled guilty to five misdemeanors, the prosecution is going to recommend probation and he gets to keep his bail bondsman's license. what that tells us is that fani willis is going now to the big fish. people like donald trump and rudy giuliani. but scott hall has the goods on sidney powell. so that's going to be powerful incentive for her to cop a deal and sidney powell could deliver up rudy giuliani and john eastman. >> do the deals get worse the longer you wait. >> kind of like at krispy kreme they put the hot donut sign on, get them while they're hot. the people who make the first deals get the best deals. >> let's talk about rudy giuliani. karma is coming for him probably more than anybody else. karma, you know, very wise karma. it appears that his drinkg "the new york times" reported how the special counsel's team, jack smith prosecution, they're interested in how where trump

giuliani's tendency to imbibe in the alcohol. the answers to those prompts could complicate any efforts by mr. trump's team to lean on so-called advice of counsel defense, strategy that could portray him as a client nearly taking professional queues from lawyers. compromised by alcohol many others told trump definitively he lost weakens his argument. >> so, in jack smith's january 6th prosecution, rudy giuliani is unindicted coconspirator number one. we know that on election day, giuliani told trump just say you won. now trump's -- one of his defenses that he's floated as, well, i was just doing what my lawyers told me to do, the lawyers told me that the election was stolen. the lawyers said, everything that i was doing was legal. well, if one of the lawyers was drunk, that eviscerates that defense. >> wow. >> let me ask you between the whole plea deal thing. somebody pleads in fani willis's case. what does that do if they are

also involved in jack smith's case. >> it gives them exposure. which is why people like donald trump and john eastman and rudy giuliani are unlikely too plead guilty even if willis offers them the best deal because jack smith could still indictment them, he has indicted trump and could use that as evidence against trump. and other people he hasn't indicted like giuliani and eastman, we could be sure that at some point based on the allegations in the trump indictment that jack smith is coming for them. >> real quick. michael cohen has a civil suit that he's involved in with donald trump. so trump left the new york court to go to florida. he had said i can't, i can't, i can't, i can't leave to do this deposition because i got to be in court in new york. but now he's gone. >> we know donald trump hates any kind of court proceeding where he has to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. he has a problem with that. so, i don't blame him for trying to put that off as long as he could. >> yeah. that deposition -- depositions don't go well for him. >> that's exactly right. >> they're not his friend. paul butler, always fun. thank you very much.

up next, a representative justin jones of the tennessee three joins me on his new lawsuit against the state's republican speaker from expelling him from the legislature back in august. we'll be right back. we'll be right b since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise]

tennessee state representative justin jones is taking action to block the state from continuing to suppress dissent.

jones and fellow black democratic lawmaker justin j. pearson were expelled from the state house in april for leading gun reform protests on the house floor days after a shooting at a nashville area school. gloria johnson, their white colleague, who joined them in those protests was not expelled and kept her seat in august, jones and pearson won back their seats in a special election. and during a special session later that month, republicans passed new rules to limit debate. jones was again silenced after tennessee house speaker cameron sexton ruled that he twice spoken out of order. leading democrats to walk out in protest. on tuesday, jones filed suit against the state and sexton in federal court, alleging that his expulsion and the new rules are unconstitutional and illegal. the suit alleges that jones was blocked from expressing views on critical issues that he was elected to express and his expulsion robbed him of committee appointments and seniority. in a social media post jones

said his constituents deserve to have their voices heard without the threat of undemocratic silencing and retaliation. and state representative justin jones joins me now. representative jones, let's go through this. so, since you've been back -- and we talked to you about this on the show. you have not been reassigned to any committees? >> i have been assign to some committees but not all the committees i was a member of. that's what i want to say, too, joy. this case is not -- this lawsuit is not about a singular instance but a pattern of behavior from the house speaker. every opportunity speaker sexton had the opportunity to change course and every opportunity he has chosen discrimination and censorship instead of democracy and rule of law. >> and have the sanctions against you saying you're out of order, saying you can't speak, you can't present on the floor, have those been applied to anyone else besides you? >> so, on august 28th, during our special session, joel is the only member who was silenced

under the new house rules. and i was threatened with being permanently silenced for the rest of the session if i was ruled out of turn two more times. people who believe in democracy don't silence their opposition simply for doing their job and advocating for our district. it's about challenging authoritarianism. it's about absurd unconstitutional behavior and illegal behavior from the speaker that should trouble us all. >> i know that you're being represented by eric holder's law firm. what venue was this lawsuit filed in. sanctions are you seeking? >> this lawsuit was filed here in nashville in the federal court, the middle tennessee federal court. and this lawsuit is seeking for the court to rule the actions and the conduct of speaker cameron sexton as unconstitutional and illegal. it's about upholding the right to express views under the first amendment. it's about due process because

even during the expulsion we saw a kangaroo, the court that was rigged about silencing the two youngest black lawmakers, letting our white colleague go. making sure this doesn't happen to anyone else, joy. this is not about me as one person or going into some tit for tat against the speaker. but this is about the people of my district, 70,000 people, the most diverse district in tennessee being silenced. making sure this does not happen to any other lawmaker. what their behavior is saying, you as a young black person is not welcome you. you as a young black lawmaker do not belong here. i don't want any other young black child feel that way. i want them to know they have a place in the people's house. their place matters and they can be a lawmaker just like i am and they should be. this old system of jim crow they're holding on to and discrimination should no longer exist in the state of tennessee. >> i follow the tennessee holler and keep up through that news organization.

it does seem that there is something personal that speaker sexton has about you. that he seems to have some kind of -- is that how it feels to you, that there is something personal that is specific to you? >> i think it's really about what i represent, joy. i'm the youngest black lawmaker. come from community organizing that tradition of john lewis, good trouble. come speaking unapologetically representing my district, as a young person. it's about making example. we have seen there throughout our history, joy. i hope that the speaker knows and i said this so many times when i went to that house floor and go on the house floor fighting against this proliferation of guns in our community no, matter if it's personal for him, i want him to know that i'm fighting for his children too. this is about all children in tennessee. my focus is about the young people, the high schoolers, the middle schoolers who stopped me and said thank you for fighting for us. i don't want them to feel like they can be bullied. we should not tolerate bullies in the state house. it's about standing up to

bullies. letting them know they may engage in personal attacks but we'll keep it focus on the issues and what's in the best interest of all tennessees and the next generation. >> speaking of students. let me play what speaker sexton essentially said. he apparently would like to reject $1.8 billion in federal education funding. here he is explaining why. >> the federal government was set up by the states. the states are parents, not the federal government. we should do everything we can to be hold an autonomous and independent from the federal government. you take federal government money, their philosophies what they want you to do is different than probably what the state wants to do. >> what would be the consequences for going $1.8 billion federal education money? >> it would devastate our education system, joy. and his county, cumberland county he represents, 30% of their school districts budget comes from the federal government. and so, you know, we have to stop this made up civil war that they're waging against the

federal government and as you know, our case is being filed in federal court. we're seeking to go to the federal court to uphold the 14th amendment, equal protection clause. we're seeking to uphold the first amendment, the right to free speech and free expression. we as tennessee lawmakers take an oath to uphold constitutional rights. both at -- in the state constitution and also in the federal constitution. so i hope that we will uphold these rights and uphold the constitution and not do things that are harmful to each other as colleagues or the people of tennessee. so i hope that once again the speaker would choose a different path, a path of democracy and human rights. and not dictatorship. >> we will continue to watch what's going on in tennessee. it's become one of the most fascinating states and kind of frightening states in the union. tennessee state representative justin jones, thank you very much. coming up, on this banned books week, ebram x. kennedy joins me to talk about the inherent bigotry about the

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it's ban books week. among the titles that have been targeted by book banners over the past couple of years, an overwhelming number of them are about racism. according to the penn americ in the first half of the 2022, to 2023 school year, 30% of the titles banned were about race, racism or feature characters of

color, which isn't a coincidence. a direct result of a conservative campaign to essentially reverse the racial justice movement that surged after the killing of george floyd. with people like conservative activist christopher rufo claiming these books teach critical race theory, which they don't. one of their main targets is ebram x kennedy have been some of the most challenged titles in schools and libraries across the country. and joining me now is ebram x. kennedy, best selling author, historian and founding director of the boston university center for anti-racist research. great to see you, professor kendi. let's go states where your books have been banned. you wouldn't be surprised that the majority are in florida, six in florida, when even in new york, four in south carolina, when in pennsylvania, when in tennessee, four in texas. what do you think is the goal of book banners?

i think part of it is that they were alarmed by the push toward a reckoning after george floyd and they want that to go away. what do you think? >> i think that's certainly the case. this has happened throughout american history. when abolitionists and abolitionists literature really started to emerge in the 1830s and 1840s and 1850s, how did enslavers respond? by banning that literature. jim grow crows segregationists, civil rights literature, during the jim crow era. and now, at a moment when young people in particular, after the murder of george floyd, were demanding in requesting an anti racist education, we're trying to understand why breonna taylor and george floyd were killed. teachers started to respond to those students. but the response to those teachers was to ban their

efforts to do their job, which was to provide education. >> there's, like, an accelerating frenzy to it now. it has gone from everything from suing over affirmative action to suing people who give grants to black women. it feels like there's an all out assault on black progress. you have an anti racism center that is designed to sort of deal with these issues. do you feel that it is a multi pronged assault? or am i just seeing it that way because i'm inside the news world looking at all the stories? >> i do. if you look at the headlines, you see anti-racist author is being challenged, anti racist books being challenged, anti racist organizations being challenged, anti racist elected officials being challenged. wherever you look, people who are striving to abolish racism are being challenged and made into the villain. people who want an equitable and just society, made into the problem.

i think that clearly will allow for the conservation of racism. >> i will note that ron desantis was having a failing presidential campaign has vowed to strip accreditation from colleges with dei programs. christopher ruffo, i mentioned earlier, and i interviewed him on the show, said that you are a propagator of critical race theory, and i will confirm again or not a critical race theorist. right? >> i i wasn't trained in critical race theory. >> he has declared victory over you because of some stories in the new york times and in some conservative outcomes and in the boston globe about the challenges at the center of the anti racism center. tell us what is happening at the anti racism center financially and organizationally. he says he has taken you down. >> well, he has been lying and making up stories about me and many other people for years.

the fact of the matter is that unfortunately, as part of this larger effort, there has been a decline in the amount of money that organizations like mine and other social justice organizations have been raising, and it has forced a number of organizations to make changes and pivots. to engage in restructuring. we had to do this recently, and unfortunately people had to lose their jobs in order for us to maintain financial sustainability. but that was an effort to ensure that our center would be around 20 and 50 years from now. so i don't know what he is talking about in terms of the downfall. if anything, we are rising. >> and the universities, what is the status of the center with the university? is the university still in full support of the center? >> of course. the university is doing its due diligence to look into some of the allegations, which, to me,

are baseless, but that's what institutions are supposed to do. i think, again, christopher ruffo has made up many things over the course of the last few years. similarly he is making up things right now. unfortunately the truth is our young people, older people, are being harmed because we still live in an inequitable and unjust society where people are being discriminated against because of the color of their skin. that's what we should be fighting. not people who are trying to eliminate that. >> ibram x. kendi, tank you very much. we'll be right back. right back. yo u're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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check out the reidout blog. a writer jon jones honors banned books week with an alphabetical breakdown of the rights anti woke crusade. and for our project, hip-hop is universal, listen to us chat with doug professor nikki lane, who pioneered a megan thee stallion inspired chorus in on women in hip-hop. john and duke discuss how lgbtq artists and women are changing the game. and that is tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts right now. h chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on all in. >> it looks like you have here the ringleader of a circus led by matt gaetz.