been sort of the most receptive to some of his argues. november does seem like a bridge too far, you know, i think part of the argument here is they've got one trial in march and then this one comes right up on the heels in may. that might be too tight to have adequate preparation. i think a short delay may be appropriate, but not a delay until november. >> barbara mcquade, thank you. great to see you. and that does it for this edition of quality andrea mitchell reports." remember, follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. >> good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. if congress can't function, democracy doesn't work, and right now both are facing unprecedented challenges. as we push deeper into unknown territory following kevin mccarthy's ouster, it's an open question as to who, if anyone, can get the house back on track. we'll explore what that means

for america and for our allies thousands of miles away. plus, a pair of courtroom dramas playing out right now, one in new york where donald trump's are fraud trial is pushing ahead, albeit without the former president in attendance. and in georgia where his former attorney sidney powell says there's proof she had nothing to do with breaching local elections equipment, accusing prosecutors of holding back information this whole time. but there's yet another twist, and witnesses in oregon say they literally could not believe what they were seeing, a small plane making a deadly plunge into a home packed with people. we'll explain what happened later in the show. but we begin with congress at a crossroads, testing the notion of whether a government created for and by the american people is truly up to the task, with the speakership vacant and no clear path forward, the basic functioning of government is now in question, whether we can pay

our bills, avoid a government shutdown and support our allies and democracy. most pressingly right now in ukraine. nbc is reporting that aid for that country is in serious jeopardy due to what our jonathan allen calls the political annihilation of kevin now, the answers to all those questions hinge on whichf these seven candidates chosen as the next speaker, and this is what we're hearing from the far right as they lay out their priorities and the stakes. >> the american people want somebody who's going to fight to secure the border, who's going to fight to cut the inflation by cutting our spending and hopefully then bringing interest rates down, who's going to fight to hold accountable mayorkas, which speaker mccarthy promised we would impeach mayorkas back when he became speaker, someone who will defund homeland security because it's not securing our border, someone who will hold christopher wray and merrick garland accountable. >> i want to bring in nbc's ali vitali, steph twitty, an msnbc

military analyst, and matthew dowd is senior msnbc political analyst. good to have all of you here so ali high stakes at this moment seems kind of an understatement. you just talked to one of the front runners for speaker. give us the lay of the land. >> only two people are officially in the ring vying for the next speaker of the house. that's jim jordan and congressman steve scalise. on scalise's part, he's currently the number two house republicans. many see him in some ways as an heir apparent for this job because he's already serving directly in leadership. but then there's someone like jim jordan who is also a well-known commodity within this conference. he's a founding member of the freedom caucus. i talked to them this morning one on one and asked him specifically what he'd do in the next shutdown and how as one of the chief agitators and

investigators not just of the current president biden but also hunter biden, how could he work in good faith with biden as speaker? watch what he told me. >> you work with him if that's what it comes down to. that's how you deal with it. i think kevin mccarthy is the one who said we're in an impeachment inquiry phase and he was working with the white house. worked on the white house with an agreement to get a 1% cut in the debt ceiling agreement. that's how our government works. >> reporter: that is how our government works, but whether or not that's the permission structure within the republican conference, chris, is clearly up for question given the fact that mccarthy and thusly republicans are in this position because mccarthy effectively got in trouble with his right flank for keeping the government open and banding together with democrats to do it. >> so matthew, let me give you another example of the problem, okay? so you just heard congressman bob good. he is not alone in bringing up impeaching mayorkas and garland,

something senator ted cruz said he thinks would unify republicans. how does that help them get to other things they say they want like cutting spending? it's one thing to say this is how you do it, it gets done. it's another thing to actually do it, matt. >> well, the problem is probably at least twofold if threefold, one, the way the republican caucus, gop caucus is set up today. there's nobody that's going to be able to unify it. you have people that are the farrest right crazy, and then you have the far right, and then you have the less far right, and then you have about ten members who sort of are moderate to their degree who don't want to -- who are worried about their re-election, and so you have that problem. so in my view, mccarthy's election taking 15, shows the unlikelihood you're going to be able to unify it. the other problem is there's not a desire in the republican caucus and among republican voters to compromise and to build consensus, which they would have to do with the united

states senate and with a democratic president in this. so when you have an ungovernable caucus combined with a bunch of members who have no desire on compromise, who actually think compromise is a dirty word and their voters say stand on principle, don't compromise, it leads to a complete dysfunctional government. so to me kevin mccarthy's tenure as short as it was was symbolic of the fundamental problem that the gop caucus has. they don't to want govern and they can't govern themselves. >> so i also want to bring in phil rucker, national editor for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. i know how closely you've been following all of this, one of the most immediate concerns, phillip is funding for ukraine with speaker mccarthy gone, did that get even more fraught? >> it certainly became much more questionable, chris, for a couple of reasons. one, public opinion surveys in the last few weeks have shown a decline in public support for

continuing to fund ukraine's efforts in the war that russia started last year, and that complicates the political calculus of members of congress, while mccarthy has been supporters of ukraine's funding, a number of the hard right of his republican caucus are not, it's unclear who the next speaker will be and if that speaker is going to be able to muscle through additional funding support. the funding did not get approved last week when congress passed that short gap government spending bill and we're coming up on a deadline in november for a longer term budget deal, and the big question hanging over that is going to be whether congress will pony up to support ukraine as divided administration would like. >> yeah, general, the ask is for $24 billion to take through the end of 2024, to fight an enemy that president zelenskyy said just this morning killed 51 civilians by firing a mist sill

-- missile into a cafe and grocery store. what's the real world impact on the battlefield? >> let me just say first, chris, it's more than an impact on the battlefield. whenever we tell the ukrainians and the world that we're going to be with ukraine for the past year and a half, we said we're going to be with ukraine until the end of this thing. we lose all credibility with the ukrainian people and we lose all credibility with the world when we say stuff like tha and we don't follow through. now, the impact on the battlefield, if you think about all of the abrams tanks, we've got 31 or so abrams tanks in there. we have 100 or so bradley fighting positions, machines in there. we have patriot missile systems in there. all of those are u.s. equipment, and that equipment needs spare parts, needs ammunition to go with it.

you lose all that if you lose funding. they will not be able to use that equipment because there's no funding to support that equipment. in addition to the other ammunition that the u.s. is pouring in there as well. so it will be a huge impact. >> so if there's no funding or they significantly scale back funding, what other options does ukraine have? i'm trying to figure out if our allies would fill a gap, which could be significant. >> so you have the germans, they have committed somewhere in the neighborhood of about $20 billion, and you have uk, they've committed somewhere in the neighborhood about 10 billion. so next to us, you have those two countries. after that the others in nato and the other partners somewhere between 3 billion and lower, so we're the heavy hitter on the world stage here, and so trying to make up that u.s. gap would be extremely significant, but i

go back to much of this equipment is u.s. owned, which means u.s. manufacturer, and you can't get that equipment in europe and elsewhere, so that's what i'm concerned about. >> so before we get to what exactly happened, you have to get to who is going to lead, right? so i'm going to play what garrett graves had to say about the timing of all of this. >> there are scenarios where this could be going on for weeks. i think the first step is letting people go home and decompress a little bit. the second step is letting us come back together, and i think before we have a single discussion about speaker, we've got to discuss the functionality of the position f. we're going to continue to have clowns like matt gaetz as part of the republican conference, as part of this congress, then you're going to have to have rules in place that prevent him from doing his charade every single week, every single month. >> so ali, are rule change conversations being had in a serious way right now? >> it doesn't sound like it, chris, because i asked this of

congressman jim jordan. would he support changing the rules, and he said that he's open to it if the conference in full decides that it's something that they want to do, but that a rules change requires a majority vote and he's not going to be looking to democrats to help him change those rules, which is to say that republicans, especially those hard-liners who have frankly done so well by leveraging this power over the speaker, i would be surprise first-degree they would just willingly give that up. but it doesn't sound like jordan is going to be the one to pressure them to do so if he's in the speaker position. i think what was striking and what i've pressed him on was i said how does that put you in any better or different position than mccarthy's been in for the last eight months. he thinks that he can be the one to unite the conference itself. now, that's central to his message. that doesn't mean that he doesn't still have numbers problems in terms of actually being able to get together the votes that he needs to win this vote, and i do think that as

i've been talking to republican members who are in large part home, decompressing, but also fielding calls from people like jordan, scalise, and kevin hern who all are in the ring trying to see if they have what it takes to get this job, the thing i've heard from members is there is no consensus. someone said to me earlier this is kind of a joke because no one has the votes right now to get to 217 and actually become speaker. so i know that we're looking at the calendar and looking at tuesday is the day they make their pitches to the gop conference and wednesday is the day they vote behind closed doors. i'm not entirely sure this is going to be settled by wednesday. >> so when you consider all that we've talked about so far, phil, there's a great article in your paper that suggests, they talk to a bunch of scholars, and they say all of this combined is a warning sign for democracy. it reminds us that the rebels that forced mccarthy out of the speakership collectively represent less than 2% of the caucus, and they -- by the way, of course are all in safe republican districts.

so matt gaetz and others like him don't seem to have any incentive to do anything different. i mean, he's basically been called a hero in his home state. they say he's the leader of the base, besides donald trump. there's talk of him running for governor. where does that leave us, phil? >> under incredible strain, my colleague sarah ellison wrote that smart piece laying out based on interviews with scholars and experts how much what has happened in congress in the last two weeks reveals the weaknesses of our system, of our institutional structure because you have people like congressman gaetz who are using the rule. they're acting legally, they're using the rules to manipulate the system and manipulate the government, you know, in their interests. these are representatives who represent a very, very small fraction of the minority of this country, and yet have

extraordinary ability to grind the functioning of the legislative branch to a halt and to, as happened a couple of days ago to evict the speaker of the house. >> so matthew there was this recent poll that showed a majority of republicans, 54%, said their representatives should stand on principle, even at the expense of compromise. i'll ask you the question i just asked phil, where does that leave us? >> well, i'm glad for that article. this is a fundamental problem that's deteriorating our democracy. it's all of a combination of things from gerrymandering to the political polarization, and i would say the u.s. senate is the next thing on the -- to keep this sight because it's deteriorating there. you have 10% of u.s. senators who represent 10% of the population can basically stop anything from happening in the united states senate, and so -- and then you couple that with voters now who -- republican voters who seem much more

interested in grievance and taking a stand than getting things accomplished, which is why this sort of underlying problem is we have a tyranny of the minority, and the founders were worried about a tyranny of the majority, but what we have today is a small group of republican voters are able to stop or do things detrimental to democracy, and it's a fundamental bones and structure problem in this constitutional republic that has to be fixed. >> ali vitali, philip rucker, lieutenant general steph twitty, thank you. a new move from the judge in donald trump's civil trial and what it means in the family business. we're at the courthouse when we're back in just 60 seconds. wn we're back in just0 6seconds.

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crews in holyoke, massachusetts, rushed her to the hospital, they delivered her baby, tried to save its life, but the baby died, and at last check the mother is in critical condition. police say they identified three men invved and took them to the hospital to be treated. a woman who lived nearby told our nbc station in boston, quote, i moved from new york to get away from gunfire and dumb stuff like this,nd now it's right here on the corner of my block. i wanted to have a safe place for my kids, and it's right at my doorstep. and an alarming new study finds gun deaths are rising sharply among children. 2,590 children and teenagers under the age of 18 died from firearm injuries in 2021, up 87% from 2011. that's according to the american academy of pediatrics. the study's authors say changes like mandatory, like boosters

and seat belts save lives but the opposite is happening with firearms and opioid poisonings. a man who unleashed a hail of gunfire is being sentenced. frank james pled guilty to ten counts of terrorism in january after setting off smoke grenades and opening fire on a crowded subway train last year wounding ten people: victims who have long been battling injuries and psychological damage will give impact statements. prosecutors are asking for a sentence of ten concurrent life sentences for the 64-year-old. the defense has argued for an 18-year sentence. and right now, folks on the inside say it's a whole different mood on day four of the civil fraud trial against donald trump. this time without the former president in court or the attendant tensions. the trial is currently in a lunch break, but when it resumes, jeff mcconney, the controller of trump's family business will continue his testimony after trump's long-time accountant donald bender wrapped up his third day on the stand earlier. the judge issued a new ruling

today as well setting a time line it make sure trump and the other defendants in the case are complying with his order last week canceling their new york business certificates. joining us now msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin who has been inside the courtroom for us. talk about what the key developments are today. >> reporter: chris, you noted that jeff mcconney is on the stand, but before mr. mcconney took the stand, we heard the last of the testiny from former trump accountant donald bender who was the lead counter, and acnt. one of the most explosive moments came from the examination of what his reactions were with the manhattan district attorney's office and specifically whether he was threatened with prosecution by the manhattan d.a. and whether or not mazars itself hung him out to dry by having him going to into an interview without his own counsel. mr. bender was very clear, he was not threatened but the

insinuation that trump's folks were trying to make is bender did shoddy work and maybe was criminally complicit in some of the things that have been going on. it's as mark pomerantz said in his own book after interviewing donald bender. he's like the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. that having been said, the a.g. would like to use him as a credible witness here. then we moved on to mr. mcconney who's only about an hour into his testimony. the most interesting thing so far is learning tt mr. mcconney doesn't work for the trump organization anymore. he is now retired. he received a $500,000 severance package, 125,000 of which is still outstanding, but asked by the attorney general is that contingent on anything, mr. mcconney, he said no. >> lisa rubin at the fascinating trial in manhattan. thank you so much. up next, from one case putting the former president's siness in jeopardy to another that could lead to jail time, we're at the fulton county

courthouse where any moment now a hearing involving trump co-defendant sidney powell is going to get underway. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. al pneum? i help others. but i need to help protect myself. honestly? i couldn't afford to get sick. i want to be there for this one. i can't if i'm sick. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease. you may be at risk if you're 19 to 64 with certain chronic conditions. or if you're 65 or older. don't pause a moment longer. ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated against pneumococcal pneumonia today.

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now to some breaking news. we just got this, donald trump may be about to wade right into the middle of the fight over the next speaker of the house. we've got matthew dowd back with me. okay, let me tell you a little

bit about what we know. this is being considered by trump, he has not been back to the capitol since before january 6th, but he's thinking about coming apparently, maybe he thinks he can somehow help unify the party at this time. what do you make of this? >> i mean, i would -- i mean, i don't know, it's hard to gauge motivations in this. i would be shocked if he wants to be speaker. it means he has to share power. it means he has to do all kinds of compromises and all the things that you have to do as speaker doesn't seem to be in donald trump's strengths. my guess is this has to do with a couple things. one, he loves himself stage, and so he could show up and get all the kinds of eyeballs of republicans, so it helps him in his presidential run, and two, it sort of allows him to sort of say i decided i'm not going to run, but i'm going to put my hands on x, and so i think it's a combination of create a

spectacle and then him be the power broker, the major power broker in this and show he still dominates the republican party. again, maybe he's thinking about being speaker. i would be shocked if he actually wants to be speaker instead of president of the united states. >> he did say yesterday he wasn't interested in the job, that his total focus is on reclaiming the white house, so let's say his motivation is to go. he always knows he's going to get attention. he's doing something different, maybe the attention at the courthouse was waning. he knows where the attention is going to be focused all next week. the question is what does this do to what is already a complicated situation of figuring out who the next speaker is going to be. >> well, when you have a major brush fire going around in the country, you don't add another pyro maniac to think it's going to solve the brush fire in this. i think it's a complete -- obviously everything donald trump does is about donald trump. he's not worried about the

integrity of the governmental branch of government. he's not worried about our democracy. he's not worried about any of those things, and so if he thought about those things, he would stay away or you would try to stay away and then be an additive and say let's come together and let's do what's best for our country and let's pick somebody that's a compromise that can work with the democrats. he won't do that. it's all about him and that's why i think any potential visit or if it becomes real, the visit's going to be fundamentally about donald trump and not to sort of repair the broken branch of house government. >> all right, let me bring in garrett haake who is the lead reporter on this reporting. what can you tell us, garrett? >> reporter: chris, this appears to be a classic donald trump float where in conversations with his allies with lawmakers here on capitol hill he's gauging interest, whether it would be helpful, whether it would be in his best interests, and what the reception would be if he chose to do so. in conversation with some of his allies had discussed the idea of

trying to unify the party, but i think as you guys were just discussing that probably runs counter to the actual reality of an appearance here, which would be the first time he'd been back on the capitol since january 6th and would come at a time where how to handle him, endorsements of him, how to handle the path forward with the party is an open question, so having a non-member present for what is going to be at least two days and possibly longer of closed door member only, you know, intraparty discussions, i don't know would achieve any specific objective, other than get donald trump involved in the big republican political story of the week next week, which will be who the next speaker may be out of that party. >> garrett haake, thank you so much and congrats on that great reporting. matt, you're going to stay with me, any moment now inside a fulton county courthouse, sidney powell's lawyers are expected to argue that the d.a.'s office has evidence that would clear her of charges she tried to overturn georgia's election results, and

they want it now. but prosecutors have a cooperation deal with a star witness, and that could upend her case. i want to bring in nbc's blayne alexander from outside the courthouse, also with me former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman, welcome to both of you. blayne, what more can we expect to hear from powell's lawyers? give us the lay of the land? >> chris, we're expecting this hearing to get underway in just a few minutes. it may be a little bit late in starting, but once it does begin we're going to hear from sidney powell's attorneys essentially in an attempt to dismiss the charges. they're alleging prosecutorial misconduct because they say the d.a.'s team has evidence that basically clears her name. now, as you would expect, the d.a. pushed back in this in a filing before the hearing, saying there's no basis to allege that but also saying what they're trying to do is argue this in motions. she's presenting her version of the facts and she's welcome to do that, but before a jury during the trial. in the midst of all of this is further complication for sidney

powell's case, and that's because we saw a plea deal from one of her co-defendants, scott hall. he accepted a plea deal before a judge last friday, and as part of that acceptance, basically he admitted that sidney powell did enter into a contract with the very firm that is accused of that data breach down in coffee county. so that's just one of the complications that you see for these defendants when you're talking about a number of different defendants caught up in the same indictment. that's one piece of this. but at the same time, chris, we're seeing the d.a. certainly making a flurry of moves to get ready and move full steam ahead with tal on the 23rd. we know that already she is seeking the testimony of at ast six witnesses in this case, in this trial beginning on the 23rd. names that you would recognize like linwood, boris epshteyn. the interesting part about this, chris, is that we only know about those people is because they're out of state witnesses.

there's a procedure that has to take place in order for those witnesses to be called to testify here in fulton county. because we know she's calling out of state witnesses, it's very safe to assume she's calling many more witnesses in the state of georgia. >> thank you for that. harry, we just got word that the judge has come into the courtroom, but he says they're pushing back until 2:00. maybe it's something, maybe it's not, just putting that out there. i want to talk about this other witness, scott hall who according to the "the washington post" served as alinchpin, working alongside powell who allegedly retained the forensic data team that accompanied hall and others on that trip, and he says he will testify. how big a deal could this be? >> very. so he's the first one to actually break the dam, and he's specifically involved in coffee county. there are four people involved here, her, two election local election officers, andco hall. so he really has the potential

to inculpate her just with his testimony. one of the two things i'm looking for in the hearing is whether that prospect will come up. the other is that the motions, both of them, are really so weak, basically what powell is saying is, hey, i have -- i'm innocent, so there must be exculpatory evidence, and the state says, huh-uh, you're not, and by the way, you can say it at trial. will mcafee give an indication of where he's going? we're in the two-week period that's really intense just before trial starts for powell and chesebro. everybody else, no. and scott hall specifically is trouble for powell. so she of everyone, all the 19 is really most in the cross hairs and most precarious and that might mean most likely to consider cooperation and taking the plea herself. >> just got some new information, this delay is because the judge is on another

trial as well. he's on a murder trial, so 2:00 now, but let me ask you about something thatthe atlanta journal-constitution" reported. that is thatast a handful of the n 18 defendants have gotten offers from the d.a.'s office or prosecutors have touched base with their attorneys to gauge their general interest in striking a deal for a reduced charge in exchange for their cooperation. this is according to legal sources. i mean, i think one of the biggest questions here has always been who might slip, right? scott hall just the first domino to fall? >> right, and that -- i mean, in some ways the biggest question, compare fani willis's previous sort of claim to fame as a rico lawyer, 35 defendants in the educator's case, only 12 wound up going to trial. now, normally and in that case when somebody pleads, there's a little bit of a scramble because it's clear the first deals are the best deals. scott hall actually gets to stay

out of jail. i think one reason that hasn't happened here and you have the fairly unusual situation of the d.a. actually being out looking for, making overtures rather than the other way around, you know, selling, rather than buying, is because this first trial we're going to see is gargantuan in itself, four months. and so it's really in the interest of a lot of folks to maybe just stand and see what happens and see the sort of dress rehearsal, and there's not the same kind of time pressure, except for sidney powell because she's -- her jury gets picked in a little over two weeks. she's really looking at it and one of the people- the only one who's pleaded, scott hall can really inculpate her. you might have expected, it happened in the other case, that once somebody pleads there's a scramble, but that and also the fact, chris, that people are -- have their eyes simultaneously on the d.c. case and if they

plead here, might they be exposed to culpability there, is there a way to kind of stitch them up, that i think accounts for the failure to date of a number of other defendants to come forward, but the one who has is most dangerous for sidney powell without a doubt. >> harry litman, i was going to say that you and i are going to be seeing a lot of each other for the next couple of months, might be the next couple of years. appreciate it. >> no one i'd rather be in the boat with. >> like wise. up next, building the border wall, why the biden administration is moving ahead with a controversial corner stone of donald trump's immigration policy. [sneeze] dude you coming? because the only thing dripping should be your style. plop plop fizz fizz with alka-seltzer plus cold & flu relief. also try for fizzy fast cough relief. i'm kareem abdul jabbar.

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this a strategy out of the trump playbook, the biden administration circumvented 26 federal laws to construct a border wall. the goal is to prevent my frants from crossing into a region that has seen 245,000 illegal entries this fiscal year. it's happening even though the president criticized the wall p spanning the border in the past saying it's not a serious policy solution. nbc's allie raffa is near the white house for us. is the administration concerned about the optics here, suddenly going for a strategy they criticized so openly? what's their calculus? >> yeah, chris, the white house

is pushing back on the idea that this was done out of mounting pressure on the biden administration. they're saying that this was announced in late june. they're saying that the department of homeland security's waiving of these 26 federal environmental laws to be able to speed up this process is actually tied to requirements by the end of the fiscal year, and the president himself defended this move during a meeting at the oval office with his national security team earlier today. take a listen to that. >> was appropriate for the border wall, tried to get that money, they didn't, they wouldn't, and in the meantime, there's nothing under the law, they have to use the money for what it was appropriated, i can't stop that. >> do you believe a border wall works? >> no. >> reporter: the president referring to allocated funds that were approved by congress in 2019 that as you heard him say, he couldn't get reallocated for another purpose, but dhs secretary alejandro mayorkas

speaks much more urgently and deliberately about the situation at the border in this federal notice that was posted overnight, in which he says, quote, there is presently an acute and immediate need to construct physical barriers and roads in the vicinity of the border of the united states. he specifically references over 245,000 illegal border crossings this fiscal year as of august, as of early august, so again, the white house is pushing back that this was done out of any sort of mounting pressure, but it can't be ignored the fact that there has been mounting pressure and criticism from even members of the president's own political party. i'm talking about that scathing letter from the governor of illinois a couple of days ago where he pushes back and slams the biden administration's immigration policies. you have new york city mayor eric adams saying their immigration policies are wrong and we've seen how republicans have seized on this to campaign, to fund-raise, and it's worth

noting in our most recent nbc news poll that republicans currently enjoy an 18 percentage point lead over democrats on the question of which party handles immigration policies better, chris. >> allie raffa, thank you. next, the money issues catching up to ron desantis's campaign, what his team is doing now ahead of a key gop primary stretch. plus, republican candidate catapulting to second place in two new 2024 state polls. and in our next hour, i'll talk with democratic congressman raja krishnamoorthi of illinois, how democrats are preparing for who could succeed kevin mccarthy as speaker. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. reports"c hi, my name is damion clark. if you have both

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we're watching a bit of a shake-up in the race for the republican presidential nomination, nikki haley now passing long-time number two ron desantis in two early voting states. new polling out of new hampshire shows haley far behind donald trump still, but beating desantis by nine points, and in her home state of south carolina, she's up by five over him. and it's not just the polls, her well-received debate performance and good publicity from conservative media outlets is helping her fund-raising prospects. new reporting from nbc news shows desantis's cash crunch is getting worse forcing his campaign to make a move that's

usually seen as a last ditch measure to save money. i want to bring in jonathan allen senior national politics reporter for nbc news. matthew dowd is back. you've got this reporting on desantis's money problems, how's it looking for his campaign? >> it's looking like he's got $5 million right now, which is not a ton of money to try to run in the winter in iowa when you're trailing the front runner by more than 30 points. desantis has had struggles with fund-raising and with budgeting with his burn rate. if you look at the comparison from quarter-over-quarter, basically he raised $15 million over the last three months. it's just not a pace that suggests that he's going to have the money that he needs that he had needed to compete, trying to beat donald trump in iowa is a massive task. trying to beat donald trump across the rest of the country when trump has about 50% of the republican primary vote is a much larger task. it just shows you the degree to which desantis is behind the 8 ball right now.

>> the conventional wisdom, matthew, you and i talked about this plenty, donald trump is looking as formidable as any candidate at this point in a primary season. but if there are antitrumpers who want to see if maybe somebody could possible really challenge him, nikki haley's poll numbers are rising. is she naturally going to elicit fresh looks from gop mega donors? >> absolutely she'll get fresh looks. as she does well in debates, and her poll numbers, they haven't changed really nationally. they have changed in these first few states. i don't think much in iowa, but new hampshire and south carolina, she'll get the money. the problem is all of these candidates -- this isn't the olympics where you get a silver medal for finishing second. this is like the nfc conference championship where you have to win, and saying that you'll only lose by four touchdowns instead

of six touchdowns doesn't give people a lot of comfort in beating donald trump. and every single one of these polls including these shows, is eroding donald trump's support. what they're doing is eroding support from each other and battling among each other, and so that's why you see, though she rises to second, she's still 30 to 34 points behind in these first few key states. she'll get some money but she has of yet shown she can dead donald trump's support. >> as a team who's lost in two afc championships are notable as the drive and the fumble, my heart stopped for just a moment, but let me ask you about, so look, when opponents get under trump's skin, or they challenge him for publicity or the polls, often the reward is at least first a nickname. now he's given one to haley, which is bird brain. the next step usually is he attacks in the media. he attacks on the campaign trail.

he actually has been pretty glowing of nikki haley in the past to remind people that she was his u.n. ambassador. is that about to change, do you think, and is she someone who can take him on one on one? >> first, i one up your team problems with my team's problems, the detroit lions. we have never been to a super bowl, let alone won a conference. >> we just made it to the afc championship. >> we haven't been to an nfc championship ever, ever. so i get your problem. >> you feel my pain. >> anyway, at least we're winning games this season. on to the probably less important thing which is the presidential race, i mean, i think that's the fundamental problem in this. donald trump turned his sights on ron desantis. ron desantis plummeted in the polls. he's beginning to turn his sights slightly on nikki haley, my guess is it will stay slightly until she demonstrates sort of that she can move

fundamentally into second in a permanent way and then he'll turn his sights on her. that's the rise and fall of all of these candidates is totally contingent on whether or not donald trump sends a torpedo at you or not. once he sends a torpedo at you among gop republican voters, they may abandon you. she make like the fact she's risen to second, she may come to regret. >> i spent a couple of weeks on ben carson's campaigns when he tied donald trump. that came and went. they rise, they fall. we'll see what happens here. matthew dowd, jonathan allen, great reporting. thanks to you as well. up next, a stunning sight caught on camera, a small plane dropping 5,000 feet before spiraling right into a home in oregon. a home in oregon

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two people are dead after a

small plane plunged from the sky and crashed through the roof at an oregon home. nbc's erin mclaughlin has the report. >> yo, what the. [ bleep ] >> reporter: a deadly plane crash caught on camera. capturing the moment a small plane dropped 5,000 feet, spiraling out of the sky into a newburg, oklahoma, oklahoma. >> i'm in shock. i ended up getting a glimpse, someone has to see this to confirm what i'm seeing. >> reporter: a 22-year-old flight instructor and a 20-year-old student pilot were killed. another 20-year-old survived. she was pulled from the wrejage and air lifted to a local hospital. she remains hospitalized in critical condition. >> we express our condolences, we're going to be doing everything in our facility skill sets to determine the probable cause. >> reporter: officials say multiple people were at home at the time of the crash, but incredibly, everyone inside the house managed to safely

evacuate. >> thank goodness. somebody's looking out for them. >> reporter: the neighbors terrified at the thought of what could have happened to their children playing not far away. >> i ran out to see if my boy was okay. they were crying. i said, did the plane hit the house, yeah, it hit his buddy's house. >> reporter: the plane is owned by hillsboro arrow academy, a flight training school. it took after just after 6:00 p.m. and crashed 30 minutes later, after appearing to lose speed suddenly. >> it doesn't really feel like it's real. i truly feel sorry for their family and their loss. >> reporter: erin mclaughlin, nbc news. we have lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports." let's get right to it. ♪♪ at this hour, jordan jockeys for the stop job. what the republican congressman is saying about his conversations with donald trump, as we learn the former president

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