citing security forces. the alleged attack is drawing international condemnation. the u.s. deputy special envoy for iran saying on x, formerly twitter, the u.s. is shocked and concerned by the reports. the german foreign minister also speaking out as well as british officials. the iranian foreign ministry accusing the u.s. and britain and germany of "insincere concern over these reports," but the case is fueling anger other treatment of girls in iran more than a death of the 22-year-old woman and that huge wave of protests that followed. >> thank you very much. that does it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi to everyone. 4:00 in new york. it is textbook domestic violent

radicalization. a figure with maximum street cred with extremists. stokes fear based on racial stereotypes, accuses marginalized populations of being "terrorists" and then throws in more rhetorical bombs and that's where we findous today. unchartered territory pap clear escalation in the specificity and repetition of donald trump's violent rhetoric in recent days. donald trump has called for the country's top military official to be executed. donald trump targeted a court clerk with a baseless smear that throwed a gag order. he's repeatedly gone after the prosecutors who charged him with 9 1 felony accounts in total and

now attacks on white supremacist rhetoric. on this program we try our hardest not to ever amplify his most dangerous comments but we're going to play them for you here today right now, because we believe you should hear the comments from the man himself. >> nobody has any idea where these people are coming from and we know they come from prisons, come from mental institutions insane asylums we know they're terrorists. nobody has ever seen what we're witnessing right now. a very sad thing for our country. it's poisoning the blood of our country. >> it's poisoning the blood of our country. so much to say. right? but what makes these comments even more dangerous is the fact that trump's rhetoric and his ideas, we know by now what happens to them. they seep into the fabric of a large swath of our country, largely people who identify as republicans.

ideas that used to be unspeakable and unthinkable becoacceptable, even party dogma. "new york times" reports this "first time trump talked ively about shooting missiles into mexico to take out drag labs as far as his form 0er aides recall was early 2020, and the first time those comments became pub was when his second defense secretary mark esper wrote in his memoir trumped raised it with him and asked if the u.s. could make it look as if some other country was responsible" portrayg the ideas ludicr instead of condemning the idea, some republicas publicly welcomed using force against drug cartels on mexican soil and without the consent of mexican's government. trump's notion of a military intervention south of the border has swiftly evolved from an oval office fantasy to something approaching republican party

doctrine. and as we all know all too well, even the events of january 6th, when a mob of trump supporters believing trump's lies about the u.s. election results storm the capitol, the impact of trump's rhetoric is easily seen on the streets. "new york times" reports this on anti-migrant protests that took place in new york city lt month. "the loud speaker on a quiet staten island street blasted demands at 117 decibelsour than a dog barking in your ear a school shelter 110,000 migrants whoed in new york city over the last year and a lf the message could not been more unwelcoming, immigrants are not safe here. reading "protect our children" nailed to utility poles. protesters wore shirts emblazoned with american flags and images former president donald trump's face.

deeply dangerous. racist attacks on migrants with an ex-president with a history of fermenting violence in america is where we start today. with me assistant attorney general at the u.s. department of justice is here plus former top state department official during the obama administration is here. also joining us, princeton university professor and distinguished political scholar is here and the ceo and national director of the anti-defamation league is back. jonathan, start with you and read you something that our friends over at matto blog house correspondent for pbs told her viewers last night "i checked with a historian and she sa language he's usingchs language used in nazi ppaganda by adolf hitler when adolf hitler actually said that jewish people and migrants can causing a blood poisoning of germany."

your reaction to trump's comments? >> well -- in some ways it feels like there we go again. nicolle, i mean, to be frank, i don't know how much donald trump is a student of history or if he even reads books, and what's on his nightstand, but i do know as the reporter said last night on pbs "news hour" that the language he used in that interview is the same or intended to evoke the kind of language that's been used by many who hold vicious anti-immigrant, racist, anti-semitic views like hitler, and i'm sure other native leaders and the way it was inserted into the crazy claims he was making, that are totally untrue, leads me to believe that someone gave him that line, and we have seen over the years how trump uses racist, despicable

language and how it evokes violence. think about 2019 and the claims about an invasion from mexico that led a man, in el paso, murdered dozens of people because they appeared to be from mexico. think about the great replacement theory led a man 2018 in october to the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh and murder jewish weil they were worshipping. vile the rhetoric leads to violent accesses, and so this isn't dangerous. it's explosive. and it's like lighting a fuse and just waiting for the bomb to go off. so we at adl are deeply alarmed. whether you're the president of of the united states, words matter. one of the two de facto members of the country you have a responsibility and long overdue

for candidate trump, president trump, to stop once and for all before more people get hurt. >> jonathan, do you think there's a chance he will? >> no. i don't. that's the real problem here. >> so what we do? >> we need responsible parties around the president to finally say, enough. like, how do you put someone in place when they're using the kind of language that, again, and again, and again has gotten people killed? i mean, we need a kind of accountability among those you know, the kingmakers, if you will, in the republican party to just say, time-out. pull the emergency brake. we can't go through this again. the country can't afford it. marginalized communities can't afford it. none of us can. >> i mean, jonathan, i guess i worry that we are failing to imagine that this is his intent. you just said responsible people around donald trump. who would that be? there aren't any, and that's by

his design. as a candidate for president who could have anyone he wanted around him and the people around him are the people he wants around him. if this is the design, then what should we do? >> look, this is a conundrum, but my job at adl is keep people safe. i can't tell the gop what to do but i'm talking to jewish people every day. just co-chaired the march on washington with 155,000 people, lots of african-americans. whether in hbcu, a black church, a synagogue or chinese-american community center, people are aphrase. their anxiety levels are reaching a breaking point. so when you ask me who are the responsible people? you know president obama said we are the once we've been waiting for. put on the storm windows, the way i see it, batten down the hatches, because i can't afford to wait for some abstract way. got to make sure to keep people safe right now.

>> and pressed jonathan in that way not because i think there's an answer, that someone can produce, right, that satisfies what he describes as a conundrum and challenge of our times, because i worry he's revealed himself over and over and over again. if re-elected he will take away this networks video licences. gone after comcast. if elected will prosecute general mark milley for treason a crime punishable by death. if reelected he will pardon the hundreds of insurrectionists prosecuted and convicted by juries of their peers. if re-elected, he has told us what he will do, and my concern today is about the rest of us. what should the rest of us be doing? >> well, we have to do exactly what you're doing right now, and that is foreground what he said. he is who he is. we have to -- we can't just simply do it, can't be on, the

fold of the page. has to be the headline, the lead story in this instance. we have to tell the truth about what he intends to do, and we have to understand that what you said in the introduction is really important, nicolle. it has infected the republican party and there's another element to this and i don't know what you think about this, but because republicans are at the center gravity of our politics they define the frame of the debate, when they get infected with this stuff, we all do. and so you see president biden just announcing, right, they're going to build some wall. right? because the terms shifted. right? and so i think it's important for us to foreground this as -- as -- as deliberately and as effectively and in every -- every chance we get, because if we don't he's going to end um in the white house and communities are going to be in danger at even a higher level. >> i think that's really

important, eddie, and this is, this concept i keep grappling with how to communicate it here. some have done a better job than me about the moving of the everton window. it manifests this isn't the story that just happened. not a couple days ago. many flagged it on twitter and i saw friends and colleagues "morning joe" before this before me. we'll all numb to the crazy and the brain in the traumatized state has to make adaptations. we say, well, we won't win. good signs in the midterm. here's my concern. if he does win he's told us all the things he's going to do, and my concern is, as we're on sort of the eve of a presidential cycle, even in our conversations about the house republicans. scalise or jordan? doesn't matter! neither one of them voted to certify joe biden's election. he was elected on the same ballot both of their names were

on yet they called, knowing falsely, knows it wag b.s. i worry that we still here in your trump story don't use the right words that we're really watching, eddie. >> yeah, yeah. i have the same worry, and, you know, i'm thinking about a number of things. the rhetoric that he uses. you know, directly appeals to white sprem 1i69s but appeals to those, scribe them as white nationalists adjacent. those folk who hold the views bunt dote express them or those folk worried about immigration but don't really have a language to describe their worry gives them a language. people that you and i know. people that we love. they are buying into this stuff. so -- the levels of it. the intimacy of it, right? make it is a very difficult nut to crack, but if we don't do what you're doing right now, and if we don't in our intimate

spaces call this out, i'll hell's going to break loose. even in a more intense way if that makes sense. >> yeah. eddie's getting at this dynamic, domestic extreme divides neighborhoods, divides school communities. it showed itself in the nastiness around covid policies and stay home from school and masks and whatnot. it also infects or -- that's probably the wrong word. it also seems to hamstring law enforcement. right? navigating an extraordinarily important and treasured principle in this country, freedom of speech, freedom of association, but you have almost like a tumor wrapped around the spine our blood vessel. you have it interconnected now with a threat. what do you do? >> well, i want to -- before getting do law enforcement i want to comment on a few things we've talked about, because i think i've been one for some

period, agreed about not elevating his comments, but what has happened is two things. that means there's still plenty of people listening to them and without speaking out against it forcefully and you have and we have on the show, but it is not headline news every day. without speaking out forcefully it has become normalized and the rest of us are starting to get immune. play his voice, saying the things, violent things, the same things being like duterte said when he ran for election in the philippines. somebody who went on to kill tens and thousands of his people. right? i think we need to actually start calling it what it is. >> i hope if you disagreed you would still be telling me right now. glad youagree. >> i've flipped on this. it's not just about marginalized communities. clearly impacted. everyone's impacted. >> correct. >> i just came back from several days in santa fe with republican leaders and maricopa county.

the county board supervisor, republicans attacked. republicans are being threatened. republicans have had violence against them. you know, democrats have had violence against them. white people, right? talked about marginalism. had it worse than anybody for sure but this isn't something that white people can sit and sade that's somebody else's problem. it is every american's problem because it's coming after everyone who doesn't align with trump. anyone who's in law enforcement. white, black, latino, doesn't matter. anyone frankly in the military. look at general milley, and what really scary, this morning i did an interview with "on point" for npr. they played vignettes, tapes, of people in iowa saying, yes, milley should already be in front of a firing squad for what he did. i mean, that's insane, and i just think we're at an existential threat -- what do they think he did? >> that's the question. right? i mean, trump's only social media post was pretty vague about it.

media, responsible fact-based media explained what he did. a call to chinese leadership to say it's okay. we have things under control. an authorized call by the secretary of defense. doesn't matter. they don't live to what it is. they just listen to his rhetoric. if we don't start pushing back, i thought we were giving him too much oxygen, free publicity, but now i feel everyone needs to push back and shameful for people on capitol hill, republicans on capitol hill, not to be doing so. they've got the best voice to do it, and you know i've also, as you know, sometimes been het hesitant to put party on this. i feel we will drive away some republicans if we put party on it. those on capitol hill their silence is complicity and we are getting too close to the election. i'm fired up. you can see. >> no. look, i want to come out here and be told i'm wrong. right? i want to come out here with what i think the danger is and

be told, everything's fine. nobody heard that. i think he's a buffoon. but that not where we are, and my anxiety exists on multiple levels, but really i think we spent eight years trying to wrestle trump to the ground, and it's frivolous. he's helium balloon, strings cust off and speaking to his people. we know from january 6th what he can do and paul pelosi's attackers he can do and that it takes one person to terrorize an entire nation. one aggrieved person. he was pissed about wake-up? okay? the historical language echoes rhyme. the figures rhyme and right/left alignment repeats. >> going dark on this. >> showed up as the -- "30 rock" optimistic. >> fascism is actually not that old. it started in the 1930s in italy

and germany, with the rise of the nazi party and violent rhetoric and violence is, as intrinsic to fascism as free speech is to democracy. >> say that again. >> violence is an intrinsic to fascism as free speech is to democracy. >> hmm. >> what mussolini did and hitler did invocations of vile lnt rhetoric. gangs beating up immigrants, jews, minorities infested the entire body politics so that violence became a part of regular politics. even the opposition had to use violence. so part of the idea is, and this is what we're talking about today. using violent rhetoric is to intimidate people from criticizing it. so one reason that republicans don't criticize it, is they're afraid it will be turned against them. precisely why he uses it and precisely why fascists and

authoritarianisms use it and it become as tool of their politics. that's the very, very dark vision that we're moving towards. >> jonathan, do you look, i mean, can you conjure up examples where -- where it gets this far and there's an off ramp? are you optimistic? >> look, you couldn't do this work, i would say, and i think also one of the best in the field agree you can't do this work if you're not optimistic. but you've got to hope for the best and plan for the worst. that's why at adl we are ferociously bipartisan and looking for people on the other side of the aisle, if you will, to step up, speak out, take a stand before it's too late. i mean, what richard laid out is true and it's terrifying how this kind of authoritarianism is kind of, intimidation, it's so central to this fascist world

view. so a lot of us are worried, but we just can't hide our heads in the sand. you've got to get up and get to work, because i do think at the end of the day nicolle, you may have found neem iowa saying milley should be under threat, 9 fact is i believe in this country deeply. i'm long on america, and there are more people here of goodwill than there are of ill-will. we have to tap that. tap that -- that quintessentially american desire to create more perfect union if we hope to change this. so the trick is, can we build the coalitions, can we mobilize the movement before it's too late, and you talked ak before, nicolle, none for your gain. you get the prebic you deserve, benjamin franklin said. we've got to fight like hellful we want to keep it. >> it's an amazing test for country. right? because i want to believe we are a country that will reject political violence. and it is abundantly clear the

republican party is now unafraid to stand with those who would turn to violence, to carry out and realize their political aims. i need to you stick around a little longer. when we come back, much more on today's political climate and the very real potential for violence. we'll tell you about the terrifying day at the wisconsin state capitol when an armed man came not one time but two times armed demanding to see that state's governor. plus -- kevin mccarthy, paralyzed washington and could put much of the country at a standstandstil. also a warning sign. transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins us on all that news coming up. later in the show, the donald trump kitchen sink strategy. today a flurry of legal filings designed to delay, distract and dismiss just about all of the legal threats he faces. we'll bring you all those stories and more when "deadline:

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i got to get some always discreet! a belated and deeply disturbing story in wisconsin today pap man arrested after showing up at the state capitol building with a loaded weapon. he didn't do it one time. he did it two times. demanding to see governor tony. if the man shirtless and ap holstered handgun approached the governor's office on the first floor of the capitol around 2:00 p.m. wednesday. arrested for violating gun laws then released on bail. he then "returned to the outside of the capitol shortly before

9:00 p.m. with a loaded assault-style rifle. he again demanded to see the governor and was taken into custody. this comes amid growing threats of violence against elected officials. according to npr, "in 2013 there were 38 arrests over violent threats to elected officials. last year there were 74." back with our guests. mary? >> so i think we're seeing exactly what trump's rhetoric inspires. can i draw a line straight from touch to this man in wisconsin? no. but this is what we've seen for years. right? trump says something incendiary. some individual or group of individuals acts on this. we're not seeing the same massive violent demonstrations like we saw on january 6th. strategically people are worried about going to prison, if seen more than 1,000 people prosecute, but we're seeing lone wolf after lone wolf. i mentioned high been out west

in new mexico last week and finishes convening on political violence, closing remarks. about 30 miles up the road a man wearing a maga hat posted all over social media trump had won and a bunch of other rit rick. pulled out gun and shot someone protesting about a decision to -- to put a statue banished conquistador on the city square. pulled out a gun and shot someone. actually the second shooting a protest of the very same spanish conquistador. kind of crazy. the same thing, lone wolf actors thinking it's okay to use a gun for political purposes. a medical doctor recently put out new research shows one in three people on this nationally statistically significant survey believed that there are times when violence for political purposes is --

>> one in three? >> one in three. you know, at least it's not two in three, but that's a huge number. right? a huge number of people. and those who -- i forget the number now but it was also an alarming percentage who don't already have a gun intend to purchase one in case they need to use it for such purposes. you know, people are inspired to use violence. they think it's acceptable because he makes it acceptable. >> we have a term for that. totastc terrorism. normalizing use of violence. what you have, too, a weaponization of the second amendment that violent rhetoric tells people they can use violence to solve problems and what they have guns for. that's the trifecta of this that's so dangerous. >> eddie, i think the test again is for the rest of us. right? trump won in '16, the american

president telling people what to be aggrade of and who's to blame. he's accelerated rhetoric from 2016 to this poisoning of the blood rhetoric because he knows that the violent rhetoric and the army of america and the xenophobias is a pathway to winning and told us already winning is only something he wants and needs so he doesn't face prison time. it's all laid bare, and i -- i wonder what you make of the -- i want to, i don't want to call it political moment, but we live in a system where elections are decided through campaigns. candidates campaign. tell a story to the country, and i wonder if he thinks the story told to the country matches the moment? >> yeah. look, trump is who he is. we know who he is, and we know why he's making these appeals. and those appeals have traction, get traction, because there are folks out here who believe that

their losing hold of the country. you know, the irony of the invocation of mussolini and hitler they were looking to us but just starting. they didn't create something we looked to. they looked to us for examples. right? when we think about the violence in wisconsin. think about political violence today, all we need to do think about our history in texas, in north carolina, in arkansas. this is who we are, i've said over and over again. part of the problem, nicolle, trump is easy, melodramatic framing, right? he's the villain. he's easy. what's difficult is that so many of our fellow americans buy into this! and that -- and the idea of america that they have -- the idea of america circulating in their minds doesn't include people like me. it questions folk like jonathan. it wants to keep women in their place. lgbtq, go on and on and on and we haven't provided an

alternative. we keep yearning for something, gone, nostalgic, some older america, some sort of normalcy and refuse to give alternative vision to this nonsense. so trump is easy! the hard part is to put forward a vision of the country that actually responds to what we know is circulating among our, the people we love. i'm just -- i'm sorry. i'm trying to wrap my mind around it and it just seems to me that we don't want to face what we know we should face. and that's the monster in the mirror. which is us! >> i mean, you can't stop now, eddie. i'd ask you to elaborate on, can we handle that conversation? right? are we still a country that can do hard, have hard conversations? >> if we can't handle it, nichole we're going to lose it.

if we can't handful we're going to lose it. all of this. we have been fighting this battle. we left over 600,000 on the battlefield dead. we fought in the mid 20th search re to try to really substantiate a democracy dignity and standing of all, of every human being, no matter color of their skin, gender, zip code, no matter who they love. no matter their ability. if we don't confront it we're going lose it and politicians stull trying to play to this idea of the ideal voter who's white, who's male. you know who i'm talking about. who's often republican that they kind of render a centrist, if we keep doing it and not putting forward an alternative vision, trump and trumpists and maga they're going to win. i understand what jonathan is saying. decent people out there.

but they've always, there have always been decent people out there. >> but, eddie -- >> i'm sorry. >> eddie's so right. like, look. like, nothing is preordained. this isn't like a baseball game where if you don't, you know, you have an unsuccessful at-bat there's yore one. another inning, another game, another season. democracy doesn't work like that, and i think people take this for granted. so make no mistake when i say there are more good people out there. eddie's right. we need a call to arms. not literal arms like pick up your weapons, but we need, like, we need a spiritual arms race that evokes and leverages that goodwill inside so many of us, and eddie's right. what we need is leadership. we need real leadership, and i'm not just saying, oh, this is what president biden needs to say. leadership is at all levels, nicolle. not just the president of united states. the president of the school

board. the president of the pta. like, all of us have to realize we are stakeholders, shareholders, in this thing called democracy and if we don't do our fiduciary duty, if you will, it will get to bankrupt. look, as the grandson of a holocaust survivor who saw germany, know, go up in flames, when fascism reared its head, as the husband of a political refugee from iran, whose family fled when that country has gone up in flames because of islamic fascism, don't think it can't happen here. that's the book that i wrote for goodness sakes above my shoulder. it can and it will unless, again, we fight for what we have. >> i'm going to tap all of you to figure that out. it exists on so many levels. this is the real stuff. right? this is like -- this is the gritty, difficult nuanced conversation that much to the chagrin of my producers takes 35

minutes to flush out from four brilliant minds but i am fearful that we're entering a cycle or a poll come out and x number of people say, joe biden's old. such b.s. conversations in this country when the choices between living in a democracy and moving towards something that trump is clearly running on with echoes of autocracy and fascism. it's not -- liz cheney articulated this ahead of midterms. she can't wait to get back to fighting with haskin. campaign for republican -- congresswomen, maybe a congressman, but i mean, this is an extraordinary moment, and i'll give you last word, eddie, because you've stirred something in me. how do we do that? how do we elevate the whole conversation for the next year and a little bit? >> you know, i'm trying to figure that out day in, day out but i do know one thing. we have to chuck the old

blueprint. we have to finally shake loose of the 40 years of politics that we've been engaged in and try to engage in the imaginative work that's necessary to bring a new america into being. if we keep following the old script, right, we're going to fall into the same traps. so let's be more imaginative in how we begin this and engage in these conversations. that's the first step and then, of course, were she to do the hoard work jonathan and others laid out. >> mary, eddie, jonathan, thank you so much for having this conversation and for starting something, i hope, with us. where it sticks around. up next, secretary pete buttigieg is here on what we're talking about. the growing threats to american democracy, the ex-president's attacks on the u.s. military, and what comes next for governing in this country? he'll be here after a short break. don't go anywhere. takes you of. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast,

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two long days since the republican revolt on capitol hill that left the united states of america without a speaker of the house for the first time in its history. that position is third in line to the presidency, and right now, well, 4:00 p.m. in the east it's empty. vacant. difficult to overstate the implications of this upheaving and dysfunction has for all of us and for american democracy. the ouster of speaker mccarthy is not just a symptom of the hot

civil war going on inside the maga republican party as the even fringier maga-obsessed wing seeks to seek control over the rest of the mega-friendly caucus. the strain american democracy is under because of that dynamic right now. for some historians and political scientists the prar sis of kevin mccarthy's ouster passed over capitol hill as a potential warning sign of graver things to come. "washington post" puts professor of governor atarvard university writes, "if y want to know what it looks like when democracy is in trouble, this is what it looks like." set off alarm bells that something is not right. it's disconcerting as events of the past few weeks have been more worrying might come yet. history has shown this do be eraser of democracy altogether with authoritarianism rising in its place."

joining us, transportation secretary pete buttigieg. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me back on. >> you, from the beginning of sort of the national turn of your career has been i think one of the most skilled messengersed in the belly of the beast. i watched all your appearances on fox news and i wonder if you think that's where this message of, hey, guys, you may not agree with all of the points of the biden policy agenda, but we are too close to be edge of something from which we may not recover. i mean, do you argue internally to spend more time in place where is they're the ones pushing us over the edge? >> you know, i think it's critically important to get back to a time and place where arts between people from two major political parties happened within the framework of a clear, obvious, shared commitment to basic democratic principles. when that comes in to question as the president spoke to just a

few days ago, that spells real trouble for our country. a lot of things we can do about that. look, not all the solutions, in fact, i would say a minority of solutions really come from washington. a lot of our salvation will come from the local, a lot will come from civil society, outside government and politics, but it is also critically important that we find ways to better deliver, and that's where our focus has been. the administration, our focus, taking care of the basics because we know legitimacy of any political system including the legitimacy of democracy versus authoritarianism partly depends how that system can take care of the basics. why we're focus and road and bridges, making airports better, fixing our supply chains. the things, fair warning in this administration and certainly in the department of transportation thinking about what and how to do it best, and obviously the fringe element to the house republican conference is not making it any easier by tying up

so many of the instruments of government, but we're still coming into work every day, seeking to get that done, because if we get it right we are not just getting good projects built we're not just making good policy, but we're playing a small part in reinforcing the trust and legitimacy that keeps our whole system working. >> that's president biden's bet. right? that you can't just say democracy is fragile and precious, and you don't want anything else. it's to show the fruits of it and i think if started with making the vaccine able to everyone and continued with a popular infrastructure package, but you're arguing one of the best ways to save democracy is continually show the american people what they get from it? >> yeah. part of how we come away from the edge of the cliff is for people to see day by day, piece by piece, that good things are getting done through the action of the government that they voted into place. right? they sent us to washington to

get certain things done. sent congress here to get certain things done. right basic things like passing a budget hasn't happened. but under speaker pelosi's leadership we had bipartisan work and people send their elected representatives and their administration in to those halls of government to deal with and to get done and what our focus is. again, we're working on it coast-to-coast. i mean, just never, in nebraska working on a shortline railroad there that's going to help move agriculture products more safely when we get the grant put throughout to deliver safety improvements in railroad infrastructure. next town in denver. reconfigures the geometry of a taxiway to make it actually physically impossible for a certain kind of runway incursion to happen making air travel more safe. and not glamorous and don't

sound like they fit into the big cosmic picture restoring american democracy but i believe and the president talked how these things really are connected. taking care of basics reinforces legitimacy. on the other side a fountain of drama and chaos unfortunately. which i think doesn't speak to how most americans who happen to be republican sitting at home think about these things, but does have a grip and earlier this week proved to be a death grip on the house republican conference. >> you were reconfiguring geometry of a taxiway is the most unsurprising bang i could ever hear about your sort of hands-on approach to your job. >> what we do. >> i want to ask you what it says, though, and what the contrast is for the next, whatever, 12 to 14 months? like the thing that cost kevin mccarthy his job after he agreed to impeach president joe biden absent evidence, not me or you

saying it, his house republicans, but the thing that cost him his job was keeping the government running. what does that say about whoever can get the job next? >> you know, what's so -- strange about that, is that, that one thing that he did, which was to work on a bipartisan basis, by the way. democrats willing to work with republicans to vote to keep the government running, was exactly what most americans expect from their leaders. they expect and desire bipartisan work. they expect at a minimum that the government would be up and running and it was those actions that were deemed unforgivable by the handful of fringe house republicans that seem to control events right now. it's ironic that of all the things he did popular and unpopular the thing most in line with what most americans actually expect. remember, many if not most, of the positions speaker mccarthy

took were out of step with majority of americans. right? the house gop's position on the budget slashing air traffic controllers and railway inspections is not where most americans are. just like their opposition to $35 cap on insulin is not where most americans are. their position on a question like choice is out of step with most americans. finally did something most americans agree with. democrats and republicans working together especially when it comes to making sure lights are on in the federal government and that, that proved to be the unforgivable sin that cost him his job. >> unbelievable. mr. secretary, i would like to ask you to stick around through the break and get your thoughts on the ex-president's repeated and it would seem escalating attacks on the men and women of the u.s. military. we'll be right back.

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123r. back with secretary pete buttigieg. yom have it in front of me but sure you're waefrt kaums by now. chairman mark milley has been threatened, accused of treason, threatened with death by donald trump for some criticisms. one of the stories he told seared in my brain forever. a gentleman named avila saying an amputee and he said to mark milley get him out of here. i don't ever want to see him again. people don't want to see that. this talk about wounded veterans among those who served like

yourself and people who have lost loved ones who served are now known to be people despised by donald trump from chairman milley and from his former chief of staff john kelly. where do we go as a country if that person who despises wounded veterans and those who died serving their country is the republican party's front-runner? >> well, it's a really painful and tough thing to hear, to read about, even as we have learned not to be surprised by that sort of thing. you know, i think about the people i served with who were injured and i think about some people injured and then i served with them, because they came right back to active duty as soon as they got the chance. and the idea you would have that kind of disrespect for somebody who puts their life on the line, puts their body on the line, sacrifices than most of us, even those who served, most of us can

imagine is unthinkable especially for the -- the, somebody who has been the president of the united states. the commander-in-chief. i guess to me it comes down to this -- if being around an injured or wounded or disabled veteran makes you uncomfortable it should make you uncomfortable in the direction of wanting to be more like them. it should make you uncomfortable in the direction of asking whether you have done enough to make your life and your community and your country worthy of the price that was paid in blood to keep that country safe. i think that's something that all of us regardless of political persuasion ought to be able to come together around. certainly even at my tender age, old enough to remember when that's something that all republicans and democrats could come together around. and we need to get back to that. by the way, that's our focus in this administration. the pact act.

obviously, not something i claim credit for from the department of transportation. the president's leadership, secretary mcdonough's leadership in the v.a. and in congress. bipartisan work making sure people like those i served with exposed to those toxic burn pits are getting the care that they deserve. well needed veterans take them seriously and do right by them. if they make you uncomfortable it should be in the direction of emulating them. not wanting them out of your sight. >> secretary of transportation pete buttigieg, thank you. last word? >> i would hope people watch that see a secretary of transportation and say we're not ideological. we want somebody who is competent. because competence used to the in politics. seeing pete buttigieg seeing competent people and this administration which actually knows tao how to governor i hope and pray is the thing that

persuades people to keep them in power. >> thank you for spending time with us. walked in feeling optimistic. >> you destroyed it. >> the news destroyed it. not me. after the break for us, we will turn to donald trump's legal woes. they are piling up and today so, too, are hit attempts to delay, dismiss and deflect. we'll explain. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. the company goes to the first born audrey. the model train set is entrusted to todd. mr. marbles will receive recurring deliveries for all of his needs in perpetuity, thanks to autoship from chewy. i always loved that old man. what's it say about the summer house? yeah, the beach house. the summer residents goes to mr. marbles. plot twist. i'm sorry, what? doesn't make logistical sense? unbelievable. pets aren't just pets.

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i'm really rich. show thaw. by the way, i'm not even saying

that to brag. that's the kind of mind-set the kind of thinking you need for this. >> i'm a world-class business guy. >> i built and unbelievable company very, very little debt. tremendous, some of the greatest assets in the world. tremendous cash flow. >> straight face on the set. hi again, everyone. 5:00 in new york. the core of donald trump's puffed up, manufactured identity lies in when he described it there. whyte right? a branded sense of business acumen. the value of his assets. his dealmaking, in his words again, his wealth. waith year of that persona was pierced by new york judge armer engoron who found donald trump liable for fraud in the new york attorney general's civil case and took a step to implement trump the liability ruling he was able to make before the trial even started. as a result of a new order filed

by that judge today, the trump organization must show the court they are complying with the order to cancel their business certificates in new york. and notify any movement of assets or creation of new entities. now, in plain language, it's over. lights out. trump cannot do business anymore in new york, and he cannot move money around that could tamper with the case. coming on a day that developed into a s'mores borje of attempts by the ex-president to distort and distract from the many, many legal problems and many, many trials he faces. it started with this new york fraud case. trump's lawyers announced they will move for a sy pending appeal of the case filed yesterday over in the hush money case trump's attorneys file add motion to dismiss that one attacking manhattan district attorney alvin bragg and saying that chargese brought are politically motivated. then there is the federal classified documents case.

sometimes referred to as the mar-a-lago case. trump's lawyers in tha one have asked federal judge aileen cannon to postpone the trial until mid-november. so after the 2024 election. as of right now, that trial is set to start on may 20th of next year. now, one of theeasons trump's lawyering cited in their request to delay is that trump's busy. he's a very crowded legal calendar. lawyers claiming that they nor trump could "be in two places at once." one of the lawyers in the classified documents case is also the lawyer that's resting trump in this new york fraud se in new york this week. and then t was the other federal criminal case against donald trump. the one looking into his efforts to subvert his defeat in 2020, the 2020ction and overturn the result algether. get that one dismissed saying something like, efforts to ensure election integrity

were within the scope of his responsibility as president. and, therefore, protected under presidential immunity? okay. probably dizzy trying to make sense of all of these legal maneuvers coming today. make it simple. donald trump a man currently in new york for fraud charged with criminal cases from various other alleged crimes is trying everything and anything he can to shut down or delay the cases against him. trump's countless piling up legal woes, although we start the hour with most beloved guests. in the courtroom as it began and host of a new podcast we need to talk, andrea bernstein here covering trump's businesses for years and donny deutsch host of podcast "on brand" and assistant attorney general and former attorney harvey levin is with

us. we love what's in your notebooks. tell us what you reported today? >> need add whiteboard to keep track of it all. one pillowcase. >> a pretty big one, just one jurisdiction. all of these pages. so this morning sort of even before we got to court there was an order. this order to me, interesting, because there was a motion for, the judge granted a motion for summary judgment finding him liable for fraud and he still didn't know, we'll learn more. knew immediately receiver and restriction on the business but today finding out pieces of it, i guess. this morning the judge had an order that said that if the trumps want to move money or if they create a business they need to report it to the court and it's not just donald trump. it's the family, officers of the

company. it was -- you know, notable when we walked in that had happened and also moving to get the names of receivers in the next few weeks have to get a list to the court. and then in court we saw more testimony today don bender, outside accountant, up first thing in the morning and his testimony finished and then another inside accountant was in the afternoon and it really did become of bit of a blame. this is the blame game. donald trump is saying i'm not responsible for this. my outside accountant is responsible for it. outside knten bender saying i got everything from the trump organization. at one point yesterday there was -- the testimony got quite heated. there was actually, one of the lawyers stood up said, let's tone it down. don bender is not on trial. trump's lawyers said, hang on. kind of is on trial. right, right, and trying to place the blame at his feet and

then another inside accountant got up today and a witness for the government and showing documents point out, financial statements in question where donald trump inflated his wealth and there was a note on it, jt -- what the government is trying to do in this case tie everything they can to, back to donald trump. that's the sort of thing you're seeing inside the courtroom, and then there was, then this other motion today where donald trump's lawyers came in to court and want to have a moratorium to stay. even unclear what they wanted stayed, just wanted summary statement or the whole trial? out of the bag, it started. even cagey about that and then i guess we'll see even more on where it goes, but a lot, a lot of things, pieces, just -- going on here. a lot of -- stuff. >> you're in this as well.

it's clear that, i'm not, i can't compare them to the others because they haven't happened yet but this one definitely right up in all of his stuff. that the whole thing was a fraud? >> in fact the judge found trump did commit repeated and persistent fraud under new york law and that's a question now was it upon spearsy and intent and how much money they have to pay. but this is someone who has now been found to have done this and his decision last week, the judge quoted chico marx, who you going to believe? me or your lying eyes. kind of the model. covered it and covered it, you see that over and over and over again trump is the value was high when they need add loan and value was low when they have to pay any taxes. you see it over and over and over again. here's trump, in the courtroom this week, he's tall hunched over. looks smaller. the room feels small and

everybody's kind of together. he cannot talk. he doesn't control the movie, the discourse. can't even believe he made it several days. he's in a situation somebody else gets to decide what is true, what's false and who has committed an act in violation of new york law. trump is not do that. counter to his entire way of being both as a business person and a president, and what he's facing right now. >> didn't really make it. right? kept coming out blurting out his attacks going back. >> yesterday very frustrated. the last day in court muttering and people could hear him. >> what was he muttering? >> complaining. he doesn't have a jury is really bothering him. >> he didn't ask for one. >> he did ask for one. >> didn't do welly the new york jury either. the carroll case, all call off guard with that guilty, guilty verdict. and his company found guilty of

felonies in new york. those were both juries, and so whatever he doesn't have is what he wants, but they weren't so great for him either. >> he likes, i think the idea it's an audience. what he wants. >> who do you think the audience is? >> i think he thinks it's -- >> us. >> exactly. >> he's got a different -- not the judge. but his lawyers, different, i think, audiences looking at important one that you're seeing play out every day on the legal team is the court. >> right. >> really -- very much laying the ground -- the motion today that might be heard tomorrow, stay proceedings, whatever it turns out to be, you know, all set on the ground for appeal and the appellate court is familiar with the case. already heard stuff and said, no. i can't imagine they're going to stop the trial and wait but this is all where it's heading. not necessarily donald trump's audience but an important audience for the lawyers.

>> his inability to regulate sort of his emotions on display as well. i just think of the profound lack of fitness. he's played through all the threats of violence and also shown a profound lack of fitness to be a defendant. he's not helping his case at all. >> haven't seen fitness do anything on the right side of thing. and both of your points, first of all, i want to reiterate although if you lined up the average person, something we potentially could go to jail for. you know, election interference, obstruction of justice things. this is the one that gets to the core of what we -- a politician, in business now, big, tall buildings and lots of piles of money and everything is being, everything is an extension, grandiose extension. this is putting a pea in that thanksgiving parade balloon and to your point, him showing up a mistake. you are seeing a weakened man,

can't speak out when he wants to speak out can not control the situation. two points. also bring it back here where ending now with a buffoon businessman but started with a bigot race-baited violent incentivizing dangerous fascist. that's the range, to the white collar, where we gigglealities bit, to the part where we are so far from giggling, we are just terrified. use the words so powerful. what if he gets elected again? i think we have to keep saying that over and over and over again. >> and they're all connected, in his mind. his business prowess is his political brand, and i think the reason this will bring, wa-of-what was so cataclysmic for him, started peeling back the layers, that the money from his father was not a seed. this is, as his fairy tale went pap constant grudge. the net it lasted forever.

a lot more than he ever claimed it was. >> i think that's totally right and i concur with what donnie says. it's odd, but the criminal charges almost takes as badge of honor on the campaign trail but this, mortified at the notion he would be formally found to about fraudster and his whole brand for all his life have been just a sort of pose. this is by the way, i think a coordinated smorgasbord is a good word you use. four different cases including this one. we'll see tomorrow a motion to stay this entire trial. none of it i expect will be successful, but all of it especially the one before judge chutkan is trying to lay groundwork for something on appeal, you know, when talking about if he's not elected and he is convicted, 2025, 2026, but there's just no doubt that even though these aren't criminal charges they absolutely stick

the knife in to him in a way none of the others does. >> harry, is any judge going to -- i mean, it's all a delay tactic, because he wants to put the ball off to the other side of the election, and he really does have a lot of trials. i mean, how does a judge, how do they sit through the fact it is -- it is flag grant delay. not making legal arguments. they're making political arguments and filing in a lot of places for a lot of different thing jgs. >> easily. judges say to the extent that's your argument, we can work it out with judges talking to one another as they already are beginning to do, it's a tight schedule but one that you can manage. now, but some of these motions, again, they're looking to appeal and we may talk about this god forbid in 2026. especially the big one january 6th, meant to attract interest of the supreme court.

if convicted, evidence suggesting it would be and doesn't win election, everything in god's universe, he shouldn't be, we're going to think very hard about will he be granted bail, pending appeal? if you need to have a good argument to get that on the other hand, former president, i think the likely he will be granted bail and the upshot of today's motions may be to keep him out for a good, long while. >> let me just remind everybody what the most powerful republican in the senate actually in washington, mitch mcconnell the only one that is still standing said about president trump's like the for his conduct. >> president trump is still liable for everything he did while in office. as an ordinary citizen. unless the statute of limitations has run, he'll be liable for everything he did while he was in office. didn't get away with anything yet. yet.

we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation. and former presidents are not immune being accountable by either one. >> play that, because in this filing to delay the case in front of judge chutkan, this case, he's arguing that the, congress looked at this and wasn't convicted. not true. mitch mcconnell literally referred him to the justice department in his speech on the floor. >> who would have thunk? who would have thunk that the republican hero a man to look up to, a man speaking of reason, common sense, of gravitas of decency is mitch mcconnell? >> just today. [ laughter ] >> for everything he did while in office -- liable. >> and we key up the voice of reason, it's mitch mcconnell and that's where we go. it just -- every character when you line them up and get further and further away from trump,

ex-president, whether anybody, just is so refreshingly -- human. i mean to just -- you see this guy make sense. i know it's just today. >> because mitch mcconnell couldn't find his spine in time to vote for convict and knew -- yes. for the purposes of trump's asinine filing, we do have mitch mcconnell. >> i do think this is an argument from trump, the wrong venue. >> right. trump blames -- >> right. always impeachment civil court, civil cart should be somewhere else. i think the thing about the business trial the not just that it sort of goes to his image. this jump is moving to pit hum out of business and this judge already appointed an independent monter to had to look at their books making sure they were not committing fraud now. this judge means business and that was jump tried to get that blocked by the appeals court. wasn't successful. this really, really, really

could happen. i think we are close, closer than what people realize, to trump not having a business in new york. >> and there's, there's receiver over it he cannot -- so many things has happened. not just that. he's got a receiver now. business certificates revoked. he can't -- >> do you know who the receiver is? >> putting forward people, by now october 26th have to have a list. like you're driving a car and somebody's taken -- >> the driver's ed car. they put on the brake. >> right. that's it. this is why it's oh, really, not just, oh, there's a trial going on and there's going to about big fine he has to pay. it is, all right of this already happened and the businesses, sort of frozen. taken out of the driver the seat on it. >> incredible. you're saying he doesn't -- >> i would put everything i own on zero chance he's anywhere close to $250 million. a guy like that nerve her that

kind of cash in the bank. >> harry, did we cut you off? >> no. i was just going to say that's true but exactly the thing he's appealed. big with the fraud trial, a., interrupt it, b. get the appellate to reverse. aggressive decision but fact-bound decision. if he loses, we'll know as the trial is going on within a few week ice think as matter of business reality as donnie was just saying. he's toast. >> what do the kids do? >> you know, the kids -- are screwed. the kids are screwed, because they also, you know -- it's been a known fact he's not a big shareholder. not -- >> you don't say? >> he's been showering his children. his kids -- where they're so damaged is they can't go anywhere. the brand is so disgustingly tarnished justifiably so. the two sons i don't know what they do and ivanka moved far

away as they can from him. hiding in florida and jared. >> unbelievable. thank you so much to all of you for being here. all of you. starting us off. podcast need to talk about leonard exploring the web of money, influence and power behind the conservative takeover of america's courts, and the man, of course, talked about him here behind the center of all of it. leonard leo. particularly relevant in kurn times. thank you for coming. harry sticks a little longer. ahead new developments to tell you about in fani willises sprawling ricco case against the disgraced ex-president and 18 others in fulton county georgia. why she's seeking testimony from two people very high up in that scheme and in trump's inner circle. tell you about that next, plus, kings might be heading from bad to worse especially have considering the dwo running for speaker both voted to object to joe biden's victory in the 2020

election just hours after the deadly capitol insurrection of january 6th. with no leadership in the house, big questions and fears now about american military aid to ukraine. we'll talk to a top democrat about where we go from here. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e. ervices for everyone who lives here. ♪ life, diabetes. each day is a unique blend of going, doing, and living. glucerna protein smart with 30 grams of protein to help keep you moving. uniquely designed with carbsteady to help manage blood sugar response. glucerna, bring on the day. if we want a more viable future for our kids, we need to find more sustainable ways of doing things. america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable.

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they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. . there's yet another telling development to tell you about today in the case fulton county district attorney fani willis is building against the disgraced ex-president. it comes nearly two weeks before the first of his co-defendants head to trial. according to court filings willis is working to secure key out of state witnesses to

testify against sidney powell and kenneth chesebro including pro-trump attorney lin wood prosecutors allege posted michael flynn and powell in november 2020 drafting the memo recommending seizing the dominion voting machines. prosecutors also are working on securing testimony from trump attorney boris ep steep according to the court filings can provide evidence against chesebro both including without limitation as relates to his communication with co-defendants john eastman and rudy giuliani regarding the attempt to disrupt and delay the 2020 joint session of congress. and including without limitation agency relate to her appearance at the press conference november, 2020 where you powell, ellis and rudy giuliani spread extreme wacky conspiracy theories about widespread voter

fraud and interference from george soros and venezuela all without a shred of evidence. joining our coverage, washington correspondent for the "atlanta journal-constitution" tea mitchell is back. harry's is still with us. tia, take us through what this means about, one, fani willis' trial strategy and, two, these first early trials we expect to get under way later this month? >> yeah. i think it reinforces what we kind of learned from the indictments, what we had been, what we've known to be true all along. that fani willises investigation is very wide-ranging. she's wanting to now ask for witnesses outside of the state of georgia. we know that she's looking at a lot of different aspects of attempts to overturn the election, not just the way fulton county election workers

were treated but also the coffey county voter machines, also the calls to different elected officials. so as we look at this witness list and even today with procedural, procedural court hearings are occurring, she's going full steam ahead expecting to take these first two defendants to trial later this month. >> so when we read, a little more from you, filing from boris epshteyn. he's necessary and a material witness contains knowledge between himself and sidney powell and communications between himself, chesebro and known and unknown individuals involved influencing results of the november 2020 election in georgia, and elsewhere. i guess, one, why does she need him and, two, do you think he complies?

>> i think he does comply. why does she need him? he in particular is part of this november 2020 news conference where they lay out all manner of fabulous ideas about dominion, really the core of what sidney powell did wrong. i think two things bear emphasis. first to second, tia, everybody time i think about this case i think how big and sprawling it is and what it means here. good and bad aspects is, everything including out of state conduct is ascribed to everyone. she wants especially the, even these witnesses who will talk about arizona and pennsylvania as well as georgia she wants that. and then second, powell, as you and i discussed earlier this week. unlike everyone else who can sort of see how this many-month process plays out, powell is really looking at going to trial and very soon, and not just these out of state witnesses but

other people in particular, the man has already pleaded guilty have things to say about her. she's in a kind of pressure that others aren't, and it will be very interesting to see what she does in these next two weeks. >> tia, harry tweeted about that earlier. in a powell hearing before judge mcafee scott hall comes up. d.a. tells judge preparing transcripts of his video otherwise powell has everything she's entitled to. we still don't know what we don't know what powell testified to when pleading guilty tomorrow, last friday. what are you hearing about may be the most exposed based on that guilty plea? >> well, we know that according to his indictment, scott hall was part of this case, because of the coffey county breach of the voting machines. so anyone else whos indictment also relates to the coffey county should be concerned about

what he's telling the prosecutors. of course, that includes sidney powell and others. there were a handful of people whose indictments relate to coffey county or relate to the efforts to get the investigators hired by trump allies to coffey county and hoping that scott hall can provide additional insight into those discussions and who was really part of bringing that together, because as we know, part of what sidney powell is saying, for example, is that she really had nothing to do with it and there's no evidence she was behind that breach, perhaps scott hall or others that we know, the prosecutors are hoping to talk to, can shed additional light on those conversations. >> i mean you know who is interested in seizing voting machines because they heard they weren't secure was donald trump. i'm fascinated to see where the bread crumbs lead.

tia mitchell and harry lin wood, thank you for spending time with us. when we come back, removal of speaker of the house kevin mccarthy ba a cabal of right-wing in his own caucus and the fight to replace him. another disgraced ex-president is mulling a bigger role in all of the chaos. we'll bring thaw story and the latest after a very short break. stay with us. y short break. stay with us.

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the two most likely

replacement to succeed kevin mccarthy as house speaker now confirm they are officially campaigning and running for the position. first is -- jim jordanhis resume includes what you're well aware. so-called wenization of the government, humiliating attempt to revenge on democratic law officials and others and house majority steve scalise is second, most honorable attribute right now isaybe just he's not jim jordan, but i ideologically, look at their records. voted against certifying election on january 6th. hours after the attack. any questions about integrity of their own re-elections and both

voted to let trump off the hook in his second impeachment. what about legislation? both voted against that historic bipartisan safety bill. safer communities act. sa wh the infrastructure bill and the c.h.i.p. and science act. and because steve scalise can find his jacket doesn't mean the two candidates are materially different on anything else. joining our conversation former congressman from florida, msnbc political analyst david jolly. with me at the table a democratic strategist and director of public policy program at hunter college. david jolly, your thoughts on these two? >> yeah. nicolle, about where we expected we would be in the days after kevin mccarthy, which are scalise and jordan really the two strong front-runners for the speakership but still face that threshold there's a question whether anybody can meet. the 218 votes to become speaker

of the house. so look, a little entry here on the two. scalise has been mccarthy's number two for about ten years. one place in leadership right behind mccarthy but they began to separate and mccarthy had some suspicions of disloyalty by scalise a year or so ago. a question whether scalise would challenge mccarthy in january to become speaker. alternatively, jim jordan, who for the last ten years led the house freedom caucus or at least was the ted tuler leader of the talk es made a strategic decision in january not to lead forces oppose mccarthy but fold in under mccarthy. mccarthy gave him chammanship and go impeach joe biden. and despite being a freedom caucus guy has fallen in line behind mccarthy's leadership putting momentum behind jim jordan. clearly two front-runners but still the question. can you hold the entire caucus

together? they will be able to reach that decision behind closed doors before we see all the dirty laundry on the floor like we saw in january. a hard question if either one can reach 218. >> do this or not? there is another person being talked about in the maga world. talk about it? his name is donald trump. this is reporting from my colleagues. former president trump is considering a visit tos kalifornia as house republicans consider who should be the next speaker. according to you gop lawmakers and trump a allies, the former president hasn't stepped on the ground since january 6th considering making an appearance. goes on fox news this afternoon and says this, "they have asked me if i want it. not clear who the "they" are voices in his head sometimes chime in as well we all know. do we entertain this? give it oxygen?

ignore it? what do we do with this? >> can't ignore it because the reality is every gop candidate on that debate stage even if they claim to be running against donald trump's policies is still, you know, he's going to be a player in all of this. and, of course, i hate to say that but reality is i have to account for it, i should say. >> uh-huh. >> and you know, what you won't see is what we saw in 1994 when newt gingrich standing before members of congress saying this is a contract with america and all underpinnings from the heritage foundation. don't mean to sound witful about that time in the republican party but representative komar saying we have no plan. representative davidson saying no path forward to governing. to me what you're looking at with the scalise, jordan or, and donald trump's influence who

will more quickly decimate what's left of the republican party? and create something that is so antithetical to the rest of, where the rest of this country is, that i hate to use the term lesser of dwo two evils. genuinely hate saying that. that's part of the test. doesn't matter anyway. it's all bad and all the worst possible outcome. >> david, what are you hearing about pacing of any of this? do they have a new speaker in the near term? >> i'm not sure by next week. first of all i don't think donald trump actually accepts the overtures once he finds out the speaker can't pardon somebody. once he realizes you got to be president to have pardon power probably not interested. i do think he has power to knock out one of the top two contends.

might be steve scalise he knocks out if he tells the, those in favor of jim jordan. interesting on timing and a little different than we saw in january. in january an organizing session brought about by the constitution and house rules. they had to go to the floor for a vote and we got to watch it play out. now behind closed doors in this environment, traditionally the house republican caucus has said whichever candidate can get 51% of the caucus, we all go to the floor and give that candidate our votes. that began to unravel in 2015 when mccarthy, frankly i was a part of this. people withheld votes from mccarthy to succeed boehner. even though he got 80%, 90% of us said not taking the rule to the floor. that rune is done, no longer existed. means we'll see of the republican caucus meeting after meeting after meeting behind

closed doors to get to 218 so they know when they go to the floor, just one vote for speaker, how long does that take? now the pressure becomes the 45 day on it. part of the negotiation for who the next speaker it within the republican caucus is what is the strategy for the next budget negotiation, and ironically, the next speaker's glog to losed budget negotiation to schumer and biden. math is just math. how do you responsibly explain to your caucus what you're going to work towards but probably lose and still secure votes for speaker? who knows. this is where donald trump comes in. if donald trump puts his finger on the lever add somebody it could catapult them to the pop. donald trump stands for election as speaker, i don't think he gets 218. people voted to impeach him. >> absolutely right. i would say going back to the earlier point. when you look at donald trump's potential influence in this

race. who becomes the next speaker? it really does make it so much clearer to me how anyone asking for democrats to be able to step in and help, never, ever happens. >> totaltotally. >> a party against any abortion laws. a party against gun control, against, supporting book banning, supports suppression of votes how in the world can any democrat actually step in to say, well, i'm going to help someone lead that charge on the other side and then go back and play defense. just can't happen. >> yeah. it's too -- it's too far apart. thank you so much for being a part of our conversation. when we come back a top democrat in the house foreign affairs committee joining us for a real possibility the chaos we're

talking about among republicans could disrupt the flow of military aid for ukraine on the battlefield. we have that conversation, next. . i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash now. i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniffs] still fresh. still fresh! get 6 times longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection with downy unstopables. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals,

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ukraine. with your -- i'm going to be announces a major speech i'm going to make on this issue and why it's critically important for the united states and our allies that we keep our commitment. >> president joe biden yesterday afternoon responding to concerns that the gop dysfunction will imperil u.s. aid to ukraine. addressing the issue he announced shortly. a leading contender is to be house speaker. maga loyalist jim jordan of ohio has questioned the utility of u.s. aid to ukraine. joining ow coverage congressman of colorado. congressman, i know top of mind for president zelenskyy and people around him. they have probably watched house republicans closely if anyone in this country has, because they're very lives depend on it, and i wonder what this moment says where you have this sort of tyranny of the radical minority dictating u.s. foreign policy potentially? >> well, there's no doubt that

the chaos and disfunction of the gop majority in the house of representatives now has a lot of imcontacts and impact on our economy. has impacts on our security. it has impacts on our ability to deliver very important aid to hungry families, and to maintain basic safety net needs for americans everywhere and yes, impacts on our global security as well. no doubt in my mind and the mind of other people paying attention to this conflict that our support for ukraine is in our own vested interests. we can keep americans safe and secure and help promote a prosperous economy preserving piece and stability in you're europe and that's what this conference is about. continuing to support ukrainians we are asserting out of own interests as well as democracy everywhere. it's important to keep it going. concerned about the ability to do that so long as gop and the

house gets its act together. >> the way we sort of sought to reassure president zelenskyy and ukrainians was majority of american people are behind support for ukraine. all democrats and majority of republicans. president zelenskyy referred to different voices, some of the voices are very strange when he was here. you know, you deal with counterparts around the globe. how do you sort of articulate this ability of this super minority, this extreme minority that doesn't represent views of majority of americans, doesn't represent views of any democrats or doesn't represent by the

united states. there are actually 11 countries provided more aid than the united states per capita. and if a vote were held today in the house of representatives, vast majority, three quarters or more, including over half republicans to support to send that aid. we had a vote last week and half republicans voted for it. numbers less than half is not the actual real vote. the actual real vote held to support ukraine over half republicans voted in favor of that. the issue is not the vote it's getting what happened earlier in the year kevin mccarthy bargained away ability to put a vote on the floor based on plurality of support and he gave that power to the freedom caucus.

that's the decision facing the republican conference right now. are they going to continue to give all their power to the most extreme elements of the party that will hold all of us hostage or take it back to actually govern in a bipartisan way again? >> congressman jason crow, all feels so fraught. appreciate you spending time with us to talk about it. keel continue to call on you. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. us we'll be r a quick break for us. k we will be right back. right b. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. and set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. when you shop wayfair, with an aarp medicare supplement plan you get big deals for your home - every day. so big, we'll have you saying... am i a big deal?

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a federal court has ordered alabama to adopt a new congressional map which will include a second black opportunity district intended to curb racial gerrymandering. alabama's population is more than 26% black but the republican controlled state legislature has repeatedly drawn map so one of the stated seven congressional seats would be majority black even after a federal court in the u.s. supreme court ruled they were in violation of the voting rights act. the state will likely see a second democrat voted into congress in 2024, aiding efforts to flip control of the house of representatives. another break for us. we will be right back. area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a

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in the last hour, mourners gathered up the steps of san francisco city hall with the funeral service honoring the life of the late senator, dianne feinstein. it was at city hall in san francisco where she fit began her decades long political career. the giant of the senate, trailblazer, the longest- serving female senator in the longest-serving california senator before she died at the age of 90. we want to thank you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. the beat starts right now. have a great show. mankiw. welcome to "the beat. " we start tonight with donald trump once again insisting he was not overturning an elec