i'm colleyville.

she we are following the breaking news out of israel. the israeli military and hamas fighters are currently engaged in active battles in the gaza strip and inside israel. earlier today, prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, declared that israel is in a state of war following a surprise both overnight attack by hamas in what is being called the worst attack in israel in 50 years, since the yom kippur war in 1973. overnight, hamas which controls gaza, launched an all out assault by land and see it, infiltrating southern israel

with at least 1000 fighters. while gaza based fighters launched more than 2200 rockets into israel. israel said it responded with air strikes out at least 21 targets in gaza. according to local reports, at least 100 people have been killed inside of israel. we are trying to -- the emergency management services have said there are 70 people who have been killed in israel. we're getting conflicting reports on that. the gaza health ministry says at least 198 palestinians have been killed. the death toll in israel is complicated because those could be israelis and they could be palestinians, there are no israelis in gaza. so the death toll and gaza would be all palestinians. although, the gaza health ministry has also said that because of the damage and the response, they're not able to get an accurate count. we know that in israel, 70 people at least have been killed in gaza.

198 at least have been killed. we have thousands of reported injuries. biden emphasized u.s. support for israel in a call with netanyahu, according to the israeli leader's office. we do not have word yet from the lighthouse, we are awaiting that. the secretary of state, anthony blinken, has put out a statement, however, again, supporting israel. the senior hamas official told al jazeera that the group has launched a, quote, all out battle, adding quote, we have one prime target. the freedom and the freedom of our holy sites. both hamas and the militant group palestinian islamic jihad claimed to have captured israeli soldiers. saturdays confrontation marks one of the most severe escalations in years, following weeks of growing tension along the border in months of deadly confrontation in the israeli occupied west bank. hamas leaders say this morning's assault was in response to the desecration of the week al-aqsa mosque and an increase in settler violence in the occupied west bank. hamas is calling its rocket

assault, quote, operation i'll accept flood. and is urging palestinians and its arab neighbors to fight the occupation. we have responses from qatar and egypt supporting the palestinians. the saudis have asked both sides to de-escalate. the palestinian authority mahmoud abbas say that palestinians have the right to defend themselves against the terrorism of settlers and occupation forces. lebanon's hospital of movement said it would closely monitor events in gaza and is in direct communication with the palestinian resistance leadership. i want to show you on a map here where the fighting is going on. that is ayman, he's almost as good as a map, if we could get the map that would be better. let's take a look at this, ayman, it's very hard to see. but there's a red line there, that's gaza. everything above and to the right of the red line is israel. so you can see that there are various forms of fighting, rockets that landed in gaza city.

but look at all the places on the right and north of that red line. that is israel proper. there are ground battles going on in those places. those are places where it is believed -- and we will go to raf sanchez in a second, but that gazans are holding israelis possibly as hostages or there is active gun battles going on between israelis and gazans. >> there have been terrifying videos that have come out of southern israel. we're seeing a lot of social media support to verify which ones we are seeing that we can verify which ones are true. to give our viewers context, everything that is on the coast inside the red line is the gaza strip. the communities along the border with gaza are the villages, farming communities, small communities of israeli farmers. all along the actual border itself, very fortified israeli military positions. the border with gaza.

-- one of the most fortified entry points in and out of gaza. israel maintains a tremendous amount of surveillance along that line. it's an electric fence. they have automatic rifles and watchtowers. they have drones over. it they have reconnaissance and surveillance balloons all around it. i go back to that point of how sophisticated this attack was to be able to penetrate all of those layers of israeli positions. some of these fortified positions that i'm talking about half israeli tanks, have israeli heavy military positions there. it's one thing for the hamas militants to be able to infiltrate israel, they've done it in the past, usually and small groups of a handful of soldiers through tunnels. attack a position, come back into the gaza strip. what you are seeing now, purely from a tactical perspective, is a massive onslaught into several communities. you've been able to penetrate to the border itself, the first layer of israeli fortifications --

hilltop's issues they have taken. then they've been able to go into towns and villages. so when you think about the firepower, the coordination, the determination that they were able to get through all of those layers and ultimately reap the kind of terror and havoc we are seeing play out in some of these communities, it gives you a sense of the magnitude of this operation. we are using language sometimes to describe what i think has been described in the past, attacks, incursions, this is a very different dynamic. >> this is a military style operation. >> right, this is a different type of attack that we are seeing. i cannot emphasize this enough, because us, as our colleagues have been saying on the air from israel, i don't think the israeli government has a clear understanding of what has happened at this moment yet. we are hearing, and certainly again on social media, a lot of israelis who were there on the ground, they were bunker down, they were getting accounts of people in shelters for hours with no clear communication. is it safe for them to come out? is it not? safe we are getting reports of

operations and clashes taking place between militants and israeli forces and security forces in some of these towns and villages. we still do not have a complete scope of understanding as to how significant and how wide scale this attack is. we are looking at these communities where we are getting these initial reports, but this could go on for hours. >> we don't even know if that is complete. let's bring in matt radley. that was in the city of jenin when the west bank -- when israel unleashed a raid in early july. he spent a lot of time in gaza. nbc news foreign correspondent, holly hunter, joins us from london. she also has a rich and textured history in that area. molly, we are hearing and we've been hearing from raf sanchez that, again, eamonn says it is not entirely clear but there appears to be gazans soldiers or troops inside israel having running gubattles with these israeli troops. there may be homes that are surrounded, buildings that are surrounded that they believe

hostages are being held. but we have also heard from no gosh, that some israelis, whether they are civilians or soldiers, they've been captured and taken back into gaza. there were reports, as ayman, said we have not been able to verify the reports of people being paraded around gaza. at the moment, israel and the world does not have clarity of what is going on. >> yeah, really. that is right. good morning, nice to be back with you both. those two things that you just laid out that ayman has just laid, out what we don't know about the possible hostages, how many, who exactly is a civilian. is it or israeli troops? who has been taken back across the border into the gaza strip. what we don't know about that, and what we don't know about the gun battles that are happening just about five or ten miles from where raf sanchez is standing in southern israel. what we don't know about the gun battles, who is involved, who is being may be held hostage in their houses. we've heard the accounts, we've been watching israeli media all morning of the israeli ans calling in and saying

there are militants outside. there are militants in my building. i am trapped in the bomb shelter. the clarity around those two major centers, of activity will determine the israeli response. will determine how strong -- and we've been saying all morning, the israeli response in gaza will be incredibly strong. we already know there have been airstrikes. we know the death toll right now is about, and i think this is a low estimate because it's a little bit old, 190 people haveeen killed in gaza. we know that death toll will go up by more than 1000 people who have been wounded. how much it goes, up how big the damages, how big the responses will be decided by those two things. ali, you mentioned this in the last hour, we have an updated death toll of israelis, 70 israelis killed. 900 wounded according to israel's emergency services. it is hard to express how huge that number is. i know that we kind of really dehumanize these numbers especially with this conflict

as we've looked over the last two, years it's been the deadliest year for palestinians. we've also seen the most israelis killed in jerusalem in the occupied west bank as well over the last two years. 70 israelis killed is huge. the israeli government, we know, will come with serious fire. the other big question we have at this point is not how big the israeli response will be but who else will join hamas? we heard hala go ronny speak eloquently about this sit and waste posture that the arab neighbors are taking. that is -- we are watching has the, out we're watching the northern border. there's our ears really militia -- media report in the last hour that apparently israeli soldiers fired on terrorists from the northern border. we don't know much more about that incident. we know the prime minister, netanyahu, he's worried about these multiple fronts. >> that has happened before. we have a statement now from the white house i would like to read to you. this has just come out. it's from president biden condemning the terrorist attacks in israel this morning. i spoke with prime minister

netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in israel. the united states unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against israel by hamas terrorists from gaza. i made clear to prime minister netanyahu that we stand at ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the government and people of israel. terrorism is never justified. israel has a right to defend itself and its people. the united states warns against any other party hostile to israel seeking advantage in this situation. my administration's support for israel's security is rock-solid and unwavering. jill and i are keeping in our prayers all of the families who have been hurt by this violence. we are heartbroken by the lives that have been cut short, and all this -- we hope for a swift recovery for all those wounded. we are tracking the situation closely and i will remain in close touch with prime minister netanyahu. matt bradley, a couple of things here, a warning to those who would otherwise involve themselves in the fight. as molly just said, we don't

know what's going on with hugs buildup, but we know they are active in southern lebanon. they control southern lebanon all the way to the beirut airport. we will see what happens there. we will see what iran does or says. iran is a big supporter of hamas. a warning from the president about everybody who might do something too get involved in this thing. did not say anything about all of the escalating violence and problems that have led to this moment today. >> yeah, it's interesting because the united nations have said the 2023 has been the deadliest year for palestinians since they first started actually taking count of the bodies of the dead among the palestinians in 2006. so this has been a year of misery. this year is not even over. what we are seeing right, now i think we will start to see those body counts increases. important context, we keep going back to 50 years ago. the yom kippur war, the october war, depending on your perspective, whatever you call it. that's when israel was really

checked in a way that he had not been before by neighboring and, this is important, neighboring arab states. less militant groups, more militaries. we saw siri, a egypt, once-ing attacks against israel back 50 years ago. what we're seeing today is a big attack on israel, but it's coming from hamas, in the gaza strip. the region outside of that has changed dramatically since then. egypt now has peace deals with jordan and israel. mostly recently we are seeing the united arab emirates, we're seeing peace deals that are about to be inked with saudi arabia for major concessions coming for the union in states by the biden administration. hamas, the palestinians, they are more divided and more alone than ever. so we when we talk about who is going to join in this fight, it is important to remember that this is an isolated people. the palestinians more so ever than in the past. are without any friends in the region.

again, they don't have national governments that are going to be piling on beside them. they don't have allies in the region who are going to support them like they might have had back in the past. now, they really are so alone. you mentioned that iran backs hamas. iran is the main reason why so few countries in the region are backing the palestinians. now, saudi arabia and other countries, egypt, jordan, they see iran as a major threat. they see iran as their primary antagonist in the region. not israel. that is a huge shift in the attitude from arab countries. that is one that is going to dictate how this proceeds. i don't like to speculate on what happens in the middle east, because i always end up with egg on my face, but it's important to consider this. the palestinians are more battered, beaten and more alone than they have been in recent memory. >> yeah, we all get egg on her face when we try to guess what's going on in the middle east and none of us would've actually predicted this but a man, to your point, we all would've predicted something.

but mostly, it's been going on in the west bank, which is administered by the palestinian authority. the palestinian authority cannot lob rockets, they cannot fire a bullet at an israeli soldier. so, what's been happening over the last ten months to a year is the increasing harassment of these groups, including by settlers, who use violence against those palestinians who live in the occupied territories. in many cases, israeli defense forces have been there. they've not protected the palestinians. they've protected the settlers, they begged them on. and some have died in that process, but the palestinian authority has no authority to do anything about that, under agreements with israel. so, this is like a weird situation where most of the activity has been happening in the palestinian, in the west bank, the occupied west bank. and yet, the attacks are coming from gaza. >> brett and i think it's important to kind of, again, describe for our viewers what that situation is like because i think there is this notion, sometimes, incorrectly, that the palestinian authority controls, let's say, the paramilitary --

militant groups like hamas. hamas has a presence in the west bank, it certainly has. and so does -- and others. they don't have the same paramilitary present that they have in gaza and they certainly don't have the space to be able to train and maneuver, and acquire weapons the way they have. but they have been able to carry out, as we've seen over the last year, lone wolf attacks. sophisticated low level attacks when they were able to go into israel, get through the barrier, get through checkpoints, and carry out very deadly attacks. car bombings, knife attacks, in some places, even with weapons. this is a whole different ball game, right? and i think we are talking -- >> you don't launch rockets. >> yeah they don't, didn't have this kind of paragliding ability to go over barriers, they're not able to attack fortify positions by the israeli military with explosives and drones, and what appears to be some kind of sophisticated aerial weaponry. it's important to kind of put this into the decision-making context on why this matters, because we're talking about iran and everybody is looking at iran right now and saying, well, iran backs hamas, the -- backs hezbollah and that is

accurate that iran does support and back, and finance, and provide perhaps training to all of these groups. and there's ample evidence of that. the fundamental decision about how to carry out this attack, i doubt, came from iran and you can see that play out in two different ways, which is, iran has hezbollah, which i think by western and american assessments, intelligence assessments, is a way more formidable and capable opponent to israel than hamas. what husband has in the southern part of lebanon's next level, so to speak, right? they have the training and the backing from iraq. >> they were able to wait a long term war. >> 35-day campaign in 2006, which i think cut its release by surprise and their capabilities have only expanded since then. but why i talk about iran in this context is very important because the idea that iran gives a greenlight or a red light to palestinian factions has not been the case in the past. that has not been how it's operated. one hamas and -- carry out attacks, they do so on their own calculation,

within their own kind of, like, political calculations, inside the gaza strip. what they consider more -- what egypt might be able to do, what egypt may be able to leverage, in terms of hamas's relationship with egyptian intelligence. gets them to be able to factor, where are we going to do vis-à-vis israel, right? the training, the equipment, the money is there from iran and elsewhere. the decision on the ground to carry out the attack is palestinian, and that is why the dynamic is very important to understand because if you automatically just assume that has bola is going to respond, has will probably listens more to iran than hamas and islamic jihad. it's by different conflict, it's the same enemy, but a very different tactic. , in terms of what the palestinian militant groups are attacking israel for, and what hezbollah would want to attack israel for. the statement that came out from the u.s. is very telling and i can't emphasize this enough, they singled out the biden administration is not going to adversaries and enemies of israel is to be careful, which, for me, suggest

that israel is extremely nervous about what's happened today. the fact that israel has suffered this attack -- >> is that about iran? like, when biden says -- >> yes i mean look, the handful of enemies to israel that israel would worry about is hezbollah on the northern border and iran, by proxy, in places like syria. syria gets bombed almost daily by the israelis. the israelis have been -- >> it's a non event now what happens and it's kind of sad, but after seeing that, the low-level nature of the conflict, is that it doesn't get reported on. but israel carries out strikes all the time inside syria. not so much in lebanon, for a whole host of reasons, and hezbollah has made clear that if you attack us or attack lebanon, you are going to war with hezbollah. you can do what you want in syria, we are not responsible for syria. you may target our convoys, our weapons as they come in, but we will fight this fight with you here on the border, if that ever escalates. and iran has made clear, you can go after iranian positions inside syria, but they can't go after them in iran, or if it does, they're going to respond

to it. but the point of just kind of describing that for our viewers is to understand the statement that came out from the u.s., which is, israel has seen what's happened today and there is a massive concern right now that and western intelligence agencies and the united states, and in european capitals, about where is your goes from here and that might exploit this opportunity. so, to get the warning from biden was actually a win for -- this morning. i want to thank matt bradley and molly hunter. a man is going to stay with us, we will take a quick break, we will be right back. will be right back will be right back puffs plus lotion to save it from harm. puffs has 50% more lotion and brings soothing relief. don't get burned by winter nose. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue.

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are brand-new pictures from gaza city. this is a new attack on gaza city that we are just getting video in from. gaza city is, it's hard to get the population sense on saying, but it's about 600,000 people. it's the most populous part of the gaza strip, which is a very, very populous area. in fact, i've heard it described, eamonn is with me, he spent a lot of time there.

i've heard it described as the most densely populated place on earth and for people who want to comparison, if you think about kowloon or hong kong, gaza city dwarfism, in terms of its people per square kilometer. >> yet, just in terms of the density and make a bit of it, and the people who've ended up in gaza, i mean, gaza as a territory itself was, you know, a major trade route through asia into africa for many -- >> it's an ancient place. >> ancient place, a lot of ancient history. but over the years as a result of various conflicts and wars, more and more people ended up in that territory. so, gaza city, very dense. but even the areas of the rest of the strip, if you go down to -- go down to raffa, these are areas that have hundreds of thousands of palestinians. many of them also palestinians displaced, as a result of war in 67 and in 73, who ended up living in refugee camps in the gaza strip. so, it's a very dense place, it's a very impoverished place. obviously, it has a lot of history. one of the most important things for our viewers to know is that since the blockade on gaza in 2006, in which hamas won an election, rose to power,

than was sanctioned by the international community, and put under a blockade, that blockade has gotten worse and the besieged of gaza has gotten worse from -- >> just to be clear, they don't have an airport, they can't export. >> they had an airport that was bombed, it was destroyed. they had a port that was bombed and destroyed. they can't fish off of the territorial waters, there's no -- >> three kilometer zone. >> yeah, but fishermen have been shot by even being in that area. >> absolutely. they don't have control of their's face, the two main land borders with israel are completely controlled by israel. egypt has a border that also participates in the blockade because it doesn't let the border to function as an international border, saying that is not an international border because there's no international agreement between israel and egypt, regarding the gaza strip. >> and when you cross at the arrows crossing into, and this is important for people to understand. you cross through israel first, you get out of israel, then you have the no-man's-land, then you have the palestinian authority. and you cross -- >> under hamas though and although in gaza, they call themselves the palestinian authority, the authority in

gaza is really hamas. >> then you cross that check point, there's another no-man's-land, then it's the real hamas checkpoint. so, getting in and out of there is a near impossibility. it's an absolute impossibility for almost anyone, including anybody who's in gaza. once in a while, they let someone out for a medical treatment, there are few people who have work permits, and you have to leave, you have to apply to the government to be able to go to israel, to be able to get out of the country. >> exactly, if you're going out of gaza as a western, let's say, like a foreign journalists or -- ngo worker, you're going through israel. israel knows who's going in and who's coming out of gaza and as you mentioned, israel does grant certain palestinians who are getting treatments for certain sicknesses and illnesses to come into israel. and they are also delivering supplies into the gaza strip, through various crossing points, all along the border. >> your point is that when you look at the density of the gaza strip and you look at the gaza city, in particular, israel has accused hamas of having storage stockpiles, weapons stockpiles inside some of these buildings. we've seen this a couple of years ago, i think, where israel targeted a building and

a lot of people were killed in that targeting, because these are big buildings and it's quite possible their weapons stored there. and if hamas is using those weapons storage and using people as human shields, that's inhumane and wrong. but the retaliation will probably result in lots of people being dead because of that. >> correct and to be clear, because it's urban warfare and the nature of the conflict has been that over the course of the years, israel militarily has cleared what is called the buffer zone on the gaza border. so, a lot of gazis farmland that used to kind of go up against that border that we saw today that was broken through, so, that was a lot of farmland in israel is effectively made that -- >> no-man's-land. >> and a buffer zone, so they would go in, they would clear it out, push back, and build like these kind of sand -- that would allow the palestinians to be on the other side of it. and as a result, the nature of the warfare, in terms of how hamas attacks israel, has changed. they've built tunnels underground, they've built an elaborate system under urban areas, they've moved the

rockets to kind of avoid the detection of israeli surveillance, israeli drones. and as a result of that, the war has become an urban war, even though it's happening a little bit at distance. and what we've seen in previous campaigns that israel's launched in gaza's, as they try to pinpoint and target these locations, perhaps rockets depot or a senior hamas hideout, or an operation command and control room, or a network, is that destroying them, yes, they are successful perhaps precision guided munitions. but the consequence is that at any given moment, you're also destroying any of the area around it. one of the morning tortillas incidences when israel carried out a massive, i think, using a bunker buster. >> that's correct. >> against a network of tunnels in which several of the residential buildings that were around it collapsed, as a result of that streak being hit. and so, as a result of it, and in some cases as well, i mean, i've been around in places in gaza when israel's carried out air strikes on a moving vehicle,

in which there is a suspected militant or senior figure that they wanted to assassinate. but at the same time, you had people in the neighborhood walking across the street, other vehicles, on -- their bike, would also end up being the casualty. so, it's almost impossible to imagine any scenario in which there is going to be a military operation inside gaza, in which civilians are not paying the brunt of the price. >> but at the moment, the israeli argument is that 70 to 100 of their civilians are now dead over 1000 are injured and maybe some gazans are going to die as a result of that. joining us now is a former democratic representative from california, jane harmon. james served as a ranking member of the house intelligence committee for four years after 9/11. she's the chair on the national defense strategy. jane, good to see you, again, thank you for being with us. this once a pickle, this once a tough one for the region and for america. >> it sure isn't let me add a few things. first of all, history does not repeat itself. that -- 50 years ago, i was in labor

having my first son, happy birthday, brian, who's now 50, and talking to the -- about the yom kippur war. this war is different, i've got to say. it is more of a surprise on the territory of israel from gaza. i cannot believe that our intelligence and their intelligence had no clue about all these forces amassing. this is air, land, and see. it's a swarm attack, it obviously swarmed the iron dome, which could not pick it up. too many missiles coming in at the same time. et cetera. and it's beyond the sophistication of the gazans. i just want to weigh into the conversation, you are just having, with ayman, because there's a bit of history that was not discussed. in the 90s, aerial tehran, a hawk, a defense hawk, was the prime minister of israel and he had the idea of giving gaza back to the palestinians. and he bravely did it, and he dispossessed israeli settlers gaza was kind of a messy deal.

and i was in gaza, in the late 90s, with president and mrs. clinton, and the leader leaders then of the palestinian authority. when we dedicated the airport, this did not happen, and a beach resort, et cetera, et cetera. obviously, what's happened since was well described. but there is a history where israel tried to be a peacemaker in gaza and yes, the tunnels and yes, the violence against tehran and yes, the complicated recent history between israel and the palestinian authority, and hamas, is worth talking about. but there was an effort in israel to make peace. let me just say a few more things about what's going on. it may not be over. there may be more surprises. so, obviously, israel has to be vigilant here. i think it's disappointing that the arab neighbors of israel, many of whom have now resumed trading relationships on the abraham accords and have kosher restaurants, all the rest, are

condemning israel only for this attack. i think that is completely unfair and israel should be condemned for this attack. gaza should be. hamas should be. but there is a history, as you have pointed out. what happens next? who -- have to prevail and there has to be a strategy around this. not just tactics, but a strategy. what is the and state? >> right, so the strategy, i'm glad to bringing this up. the strategy is not the kind of thing that just has to be the israeli cabinet or the israeli military, but what is the larger strategy here? a role that america, whether america likes it or not, and whether the palestinian or the israelis like it or not, america needs to be president. and arguably, jane, over the years, sometimes america has been a good faith player in that and sometimes america has not been. this is a moment for america to say, hey, maybe we can help bring the tension levels down on this one. >> couldn't agree more, elie. and doesn't mean we have to

have boots on the ground again. i understand endless wars, but the way we left afghanistan formed doubts in the neighborhood, in the middle east, and it is important for us to be now, and i think president biden wants to be helpful in finding the way out of the violence and irresponsible future. i mean, there is a lot of, including me, thanks in america about some of the moves of the netanyahu administration, with respect to the supreme court and certainly, their support. and statements by some of the right-wing factions that they want to annex the west bank. i don't think those strategies are well advised and i think president biden, quietly, is communicating that news to netanyahu. i also think, unless some of that is resolved, there will not be some form of new agreement between saudi arabia and israel. and i do think, over time, there has to be some transition

to a two state solution. but this is not the time. right now, israel is under attack and israel may be under further attack, as you were discussing, possibly, from the lebanese border. i was there in 2006, literally on the border. i made 25 trips to the region as a member of congress, i passionately wasn't interested in what happens there. not just in israel, but to the neighborhood. i'm passionately interested in whether jordan will be destabilized. if there's an uprising on the west bank by the palestinians because it had such a large palestinian population. so, right now, let's hope israel takes responsible actions to protect itself. let's hope that president biden continues to say wise things about what has to happen in the region. let's also hope that the neighborhood realizes that on provoked attack like this is the stabilizing to the whole region and i think that it would be welcome if some of the arab capitals showed some form

of consideration for what israel is going through. >> you are looking at pictures from just moments ago in gaza city. these are attacks, presumably, israeli attacks, on gaza. we don't believe this to be a retaliation operation just yet. there is a widespread belief that there will be some sort of action taken against gaza and hamas, as a result of the overnight rocket attacks and physical attacks. these are probably aimed at stopping further attacks. you can see fire burning off of one of those buildings toward the left of the screen, this is just common moments ago. we also have gene, a brand-new statement from the israeli defense forces, in which they are now confirming the hostage situation. they are saying, hamas took hostages and captives. there are deaths of idf soldiers. we do not have an exact number yet, we are at war. dozens of terrorists infiltrated on foot, a large number of locations. there was also a naval infiltration, bringing the terrorists to's akeem. there are a large number of

bridges in the security fence. we are fighting in 22 locations. there is no community in southern israel where we do not have forces in all the towns. there are communities that have been rid of terrorist, but we want to finish additional scans of the area before declaring so. in overcame and bury, their hostage situations. there are special forces there with senior commannd live fire fights ar going on there. there are deaths, including the death of idf soldiers, when we have all the numbers, we will give them. we are engaged in combat in the gaza division, including the combat assistance of fighter jets. we are in control there, we have roadblocks with the israeli police in all areas. there are strikes by the air force in several locations. uavs scanners, fighter jets are striking in the area of defense. hundreds of such strikes have been carried out, hundreds of deaths, including many tears. the main effort is to eliminate all the terrorists on the security fence, all those who infiltrated israel, and tried to return to the gaza strip. first of all, we will strike from the air and then also with

heavy ground means. heavy ground means escalates this, jane. typically, these things between gaza and israel have happened with rockets and to a man's point earlier, historically, those gaza rockets have not been all that accurate enough that good. there is a complete overwhelming of the iron dome system overnight and rockets that hit, i don't know if they were intended to have targets, but had lethal effect. >> yes, there was. i mean, this was a swarm attack on the ground and the air, and iron dome was overwhelmed. you know, you have to think there was another hand at play. i'm not accusing anybody else, but hamas has not been known for being this sophisticated. and i'm still waiting for what happens on the lebanese border and what may happen elsewhere, somewhere in the middle east that we are not prepared for. what surprises me, elie, what i'm imagining now is maybe there was a miss or disinformation attack on our

intel or israel's intel, to kind of distort what was going on on the ground. i mean, the iranians are very sophisticated inside, we are not accusing them. i'm just wondering if something else was going on first to miss all this because this is just way, way, way more sophisticated than we've ever seen coming out of hamas. >> just to your point, that idf comment continues in the northern command, the northern command is the part of the -- lebanese border and hezbollah, and the northern kind, we are on high alert. they're currently no events there, but we are ready for an event, and whoever attacks us in the northern area will pay a very heavy price. our focus now is on gaza. jane, thanks very much for your analysis. happy birthday to your son, by the way. i want to bring in -- a political reporter for axios, covering foreign policy. he also writes for wallet news in israel. barack, what's the latest that you're getting? there's a lot of information coming in fast. we haven't been able to confirm all of it. the idea of statement that we've just received is the most

complete information we've got at the moment and they are saying, there are live fire fights going on in southern israel. they are still battling with hamas forces in the area around gaza. >> yes, i think what we know now and what we've seen now is a very small, it's a fraction of what is really going on on the ground. and as simplistic as possible, to try and explain to, you know, our audience what is going on right now in israel, this is 9/11. the same way americans felt on 9/11, a few hours after, this is what is going on now in israel. just to explain the amount of shock that people are and the amount of, you know, anger that people are. i think because, you know, people compare this to the yom

kippur war in 1973, which is true. there are a lot of similarities. but this is even worse because the yom kippur war happened in sinai, far away from israeli population centers, and here, what we saw in the last few hours, when this invasion started, it's just occupation of israeli villages and towns. this is something we haven't seen maybe ever and some of the scenes that people saw on the ground in villages, near gaza, in towns that are not even on the border, i'm talking towns that are, like, i don't know, five miles from the border, scenes of like we saw in bucha, in ukraine, that hamas operatives on pick up trucks just drive on the streets, their videos on social media you can see, just shooting people on the street, civilians. this is something that extremely shocks the israeli

society and i think that if we want to try and understand where this thing is going, we should also go back to 9/11. i think the results will be practically very similar in where israel will take this thing, going forward. >> that's a scary thought, but i appreciate your analysis on this. barack reviewed joining us this morning, i want to go now to diane boot, a political analyst and former legal adviser to bakhmut abbas of the palestinian liberation organization, who always gives us the point whenever we talk about the this region, diana, that the history is always informs what's happening right now. i assume you didn't expect this this morning. >> no, i don't think anybody expected it, but i don't think that we should underestimate the desire of people to actually flee. the fact that palestinians have been going through this for 56 years, so the fact that just

this year alone, we've seen 255 palestinians killed by israeli forces, that 47 of them were children, while many of us were surprised, we actually shouldn't really be surprised by what's happening now. this is the national consequence of unfortunately of 56 years of military occupation in the denial of freedom. >> why, diana, though, does not play as clearly as this does? so, here you have a world and western leaders, and the white house, the president, who have all said that this is a terrorist act, that must be condemned, because there were over 2000 rockets that were fired and as you heard barack just talk about, there are hostages being taken in southern israel. but over the last year, 200 palestinians have died. some of them with the supervision of the israeli defense forces on the ground. that got no traction from anybody and it's not getting traction today. in other words, the idea here is that the palestinians are exclusively the bad guys here

and there is no justification for this. president biden said that very clearly, there's no justification for this and anyone who decide they want to help the palestinians today, watch out. >> this is exactly the problem, that everybody is trying to turn a blind eye to what's happened to palestinians for the past 56 years. actually, 75 years, when you look at the -- ethnic cleansing of palestine and the problem is that it's this slow death by 1000 cuts that becomes ignored by the international community, by the western media, that is not ignored and palestinians and when something like this happens, all eyes enter into israel. but they should be asking themselves, what is it that we have been covering for the past 56 years? and i can tell you just this year alone, when it comes to everything from the attacks by the settlers, just yesterday, the israelis set of palestinian village of flame. we've seen, as i said, 255 people killed just this year alone. 47 children, attacks on the -- mosque, people going into the

al-aqsa mosque, same with ibrahim e. mosque. this is a day by day, by day action on the part of israel. occupation is violent and unless we cover that violence as it should be covered, and understand the occupation to be violent, then we will all be able to understand what's happening today. >> diana, what happens next? because what you have here is gaza, hamas, arguing that what they're doing is, as a result of things that have been going on in the occupation and the incursion to the -- mosque. what do you do not hear and what you have not heard much from is the palestinian authority. mahmoud abbas has called for a de-escalation. he says that palestinians have a right to defend themselves. but as you and i have discussed many times, in this occupation, the palestinian authority has certainly in, recent years, been less than effective. >> yes, absolutely. what he says at this point is largely irrelevant. he has not been in control of gaza for quite a long period of time and i don't see that he will be in charge of gaza for

this foreseeable future. so, i think the bigger issue is, what is going to be done next? at this point, we know that israel is holding on to hundreds of palestinian bodies. these are people who will killed and israel refuses to allow them to be buried. we know that they're holding on to hundreds of palestinians in prison and i suspect that we're going to start seeing demands for prisoner exchanges and so on, and so forth. but the bigger issue is, israel is going to win the air for this as they learned in 1973? and is it instead continuing this occupation going to finally end it? that's the real test that's going to be facing the international community. instead of just condemning, they should start looking for solutions and instead, they've just given israel a glowing light. >> but you are a realist, diana, for as long as i've known you. you can't possibly think that's the outcome, right? especially with benjamin netanyahu. he's going to use this as his justification to be the person he's been for a long time. >> yes, absolutely, and that's

also part of the problem, that is that we have to see beyond the party politics of netanyahu and the party politics of this extreme right wing government, and see where it is that we want this future to look like. does the future look at so it is today? for do these leaders actually want to see something that is better? i can tell you, given that we've lived under occupation for 56 years, it's clear to me that there's nobody in israel who wants to end this military occupation. they are perfectly happy with it as it stands today. but today, i think they're going to start re-questioning, really thinking whether this is actually sustainable for the long term. >> diana, thanks very much for joining us this morning. i know it's been difficult to get a hold of you and to get you here in the situation that's going on. but diana, as always, we appreciate it. the animal to joining us now, rodney cori, senior fellow with middle east initiative. he's also an international syndicated political columnist. robbie, what's your read on what's going on, in particular, a number of my guests have said, and the idf, has said that

they're looking at the northern border of israel, they're watching to see whether anything happens on that front, with has well. hezbollah has said that they're in touch with the hamas, but they've not made any other comment. >> well, the thing to remember about the northern border of israel and the southern border of lebanon is that there is a mutual deterrent there. that has happened over the last 15, 20 years, because hezbollah has become so sophisticated and so strong in its military and intelligence, and other capabilities, that there is concern in israel that if you start a war, lebanon will suffer immensely. but israel will suffer all over the northern part of israel and maybe more. so, there is a clear -- deterrent there and they should probably start understanding, it israel, that the same increase in capabilities and will to fight that has -- gone through over the last decades has now been experienced in hamas. you've also seen among the -- indian and other places, so

these are -- health each other. the technical capabilities increase, but behind it all is one important factor, which diana mentioned, and others have mentioned -- occupied people, subjugated people, invisible people, will not acquiesce in their own invisibility, in their own helplessness, when they're on disappearance from humanity. the israelis have always assumed that if you hit people hard enough, they will be quiet and lie low, not give you trouble. but human history, including american history, -- civil rights movement or with vietnam, or afghanistan, or iraq, or anywhere, is that massive military force that's not bring total surrender from unoccupied people who are in their own country. and so, that's really the lesson of the northern border, which is, military might does not bring permanent peace and quiet, nor security for israel.

and this is an incredible example of by hamas of their ability to increase their capabilities, their strategic planning, and their intelligence assessments, and probably there's more to come. that they've been improving for the last ten, 15 years. so, really, the answer is not how much fighting and killing and destruction can go on. the israelis have occupied gaza, attacked it many times, pulverized it many times. you know, they call it mowing the lawn. well, the thing about a lawn is that you mow it and it keeps coming back. it grows. and if you mow it hard enough for many years, it develops a certain resistance to the lawnmower. and this is exactly what we're seeing in gaza with hamas. so, the answer is not militarism. it has to be some political negotiated just resolution that gives the israelis and the palestinians equal rights. the israelis don't want to do

that. they are now on the path of annexation, ethnic superiority, ethnic cleansing. so, we have a very difficult, short term period in front of us. but hopefully, wiser people will learn from this and down the road, we will have other options of resolving this conflict. it's not going to come out of the israeli or palestinians themselves, it's got to come out of a significant international involvement of some sort. >> and one would hope that that could be led by the united states. not sure i'd hold my breath for that, but that could be the role that america could play, that could be very useful. rodney, thanks as always for your analysis. rodney curry. amen, you know, jane harmon was talking about the disengagement of the israelis from gaza. you were there. >> yeah. >> let's just pick up on that piece of history, first. >> so, i think it's important and, you know, i'm glad to be coming in after jane harmon and rodney curry because there's a threat here thinks is very important for our viewers and that has to do with narrative. the narrative is something

that's very important when americans are watching this conflict and saying, what's going on? as is happening? was there no peace? part of that has to do it the way that the conflict has been described back here. how do we internalize this conflict? i just want to say something about gene and the -- which is true. there was a moment when the -- were celebrating the 30 or 40 years, whatever that, 1993, my math sucks, 30 years of also just this past august. the airport was destroyed in 2001. that's before the disengagement. disengagement was in 2005, so there is a period where even within the framework of oslo, before hamas even arrived on the scene as this kind of, like, major already that's going to become blockaded and going to direct conflict with israel, israel is bombing the airport and destroying it. so, it's not that there was a moment of peace that -- who recognize that oh, i'm going to give back gaza to the palestinians and they can make it -- singapore of the middle east, that's not an accurate narrative of what happened on

the ground. there was a removal of settlements, there wasn't an ending of the occupation. there was a disengagement, there is a removal of the israeli military inside gaza. but as policing's describe it, you're moving the prison guards from inside the prison to the outside walls. you haven't given them their freedom. they couldn't freely trade. the world bank wrote about this. they said, if there is no framework, and economic viability of gaza, you're not going to have the singapore of the middle east. >> oh lot of people with a lot of education because of universities and they've -- higher than anywhere else in the world because nobody can -- >> absolutely. the most important word to understand disengagement was, it was unilateral. it was unilateral disengagement, but it was just simply to do what's happened in the past with other peace treaties, which is this sense that you can have an absence of violence, meaning peace. that is not the case and i think what we've learned from history is, and as martin luther king has said, you know, the absence of violence is not peace. it's the presence of justice. and to go back to diana and norman's point is that if you do not have some kind of

mechanism that delivers justice for palestinians, you're never going to have peace in the region. that's what this is about and i wrap up with a central point about, when you look back at the oslo accord's, right? this was supposed to be the beginning of a two-state solution. the fundamental equation of oslo was land for peace. and anyone who saw that unfold at the time, and looks at it now, tells you that fundamentally, that is flawed. the palestinians were not seeking land. israel was seeking peace, but the palestinians were seeking freedom. the very nature of the equation by which we've been looking at this conflict, the narrative of which we've been trying to understand what was happening has not been accurate. so, we're not able to accurately solve the problem because we don't actually understand what the reality is on the ground. most americans do not understand, what does it mean to be living under occupation? what does it mean for 70 years to be dispossessed overland? to be dispossessed of your self determination? what does that ultimately mean for the people who are willing

to go out and carry these attacks? why would anyone, why would anyone -- >> why would you make a war with israel that has military might that is 100 times worse? >> exactly, why are you going to war with a nuclear armed country? as rodney was saying, there is this acquaint of deterrence that israel wanted to impose on all of its neighbors. and it can because when you're fighting conventional wars, countries will be afraid of nuclear weapons. but the people have been living in gaza, blockaded, besieged, decimated economically and politically, have nothing to lose. so, ultimately, when they're making these kinds of calculations -- >> that's why they voted for hamas in the first place. >> they describe them as nihilistic movements and obviously when you see what you're doing today and the consequences of palestinians in gaza are going to be -- for, you have to wonder. just final point, i know you've got to go. the humanity of how we describe the victims on both sides is not equal. right? we see that from our coverage today and we understand that rightfully so. but as others have been pointing out, where was the systemic coverage of all of the

victims over the past several years, on both sides? certainly the palestinian side of it. that humanity is missing in the -- >> every time we've tried to cover it, this push back to doing that. we've suffered it in the last few weeks. you and i had dinner last night, we had a lovely conversation. i'm sure you're quite surprised to get a test for me early this morning, but i texted you and that and you. >> i wasn't expecting that text at four a.m. from you. >> well i'm glad you're here, thank you, my friend, i appreciate. it that does it for me, thanks for watching. our coverage continues next with alex witt reports. x witt reports x witt reports arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy.