they wouldn't give temporary powers on the hill. we do have the best beat in washington, mychael schnell of "the hill," thank you for joining us for an insanely busy week ahead. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. this is an attack i don't think anyone saw coming in the immediate. >> was it an intelligence failure, mr. secretary? do you acknowledge it was an intelligence failure? >> we will have plenty of time -- the israelis will have plenty of time to look into that. all of us will have time to look into that. the focus now has to be on making sure israel has what it needs to deal with this attack and to make sure that its citizens are safe and secure. >> that's u.s. secretary of state antony blinken on "meet the press," sidestepping questions of intelligence failures leading up to this weekend's deadly attacks in israel.

we'll get the very latest on the escalating conflict with a live report from near the gaza border in just a moment. meanwhile, some republican presidential candidates are already spreading misinformation about the attack, blaming a deal between the biden administration and iran. plus, we'll bring you a look at how the chaos in the house with republicans scrambling to find a new speaker could impact military and security assistance for israel. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." i'm jonathan lemire. alongside u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. we're in for joe, mika and willie on this holiday monday. with us on this busy monday, we have president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, and columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. katty, an extraordinary weekend, a tragic weekend, now we deal

with the unfolding story on this monday morning. >> yes. lucky we have richard and david with us this morning, john, to get us through all of this. we have tons of questions for everybody. we're also going to be going to the region and speak to richard engel, as well. let's have a catchup of where we are. we begin this morning with the israel/hamas war. the combined death toll at the moment has topped 1,200, and that number is expected to rise. the war began early on saturday morning in an unprecedented surprise attack. hamas militants stormed the blockaded gaza strip, entering about 20 different israeli towns and communities. the chaos stretched across land, air, and sea, as thousands of rockets were fired into israel. militants were seen bulldoing through barricades between gaza and israel. one of the first targets was a music festival held in the desert just 3 miles from the border. more than 200 bodies have been recovered from that event alone. other towns were then engulfed

in smoke, flames, and gunfire as militants went door to door attacking civilians. official says this was the deadliest assault israel has seen in decades, and it came nearly 50 years to the day since israel was caught off guard by invading forces from egypt and syria. on saturday night, prime minister benjamin netanyahu officially declared war, saying israel's military will use all of its strength to destroy hamas' capabilities. this morning, israeli officials announced they've regained control of communities along the gaza border, but authorities stress the situation is fluid as clashes with the militants are ongoing. as of now, at least 700 people have been killed in israel and about 2,100 are wounded according to the israeli defense forces. palestinian authorities, meanwhile, say more than 400 people have been killed there in the counterattack, and more than 2,000 have been injured. senate majority leader chuck schumer confirmed last night

that at least four americans are among the dead. adding that that toll is expected to rise. israel believes some americans are being held hostage. a senior hamas official says the militant group is holding more than 100 people captive in gaza. among them are women, children, soldiers, and other civilians. joining us from the gaza border, chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, thank you so much for joining us. all day, israelis have been looking at images of people who have been killed and of people who are being held hostage, very close to where you are inside gaza. what's the latest situation there? >> reporter: we are just outside the israeli community not far from the border, and there is active fighting going on right now. if we listen here, you might be able to hear some explosions in

the background. hamas militants are firing, right now, rockets from gaza. we've seen the impacts in the sky above us a few moments ago, as the israeli iron dome system is knocking them down. some of the rockets have, however, landed in the areas, and we are told there are casualties. the israelis are bombing gaza, as you said earlier, there are hundreds of palestinians killed so far. there are reprisal operations since the assault which was unprecedented here. we've seen rockets many times fired from gaza, but we haven't seen hundreds of hamas militants escaping the gaza strip and going on a killing rampage inside israel. a killing rampage that, for now, israel says more or less stopped. it believes that there are no

active gunfights going on right now. there are no places where hamas is still in control. that wasn't the case just yesterday. the israelis do not know if other hamas militants are on the loose. this operation in southern israel is nearing a conclusion, that there are no active gunfights right now, but they're still hunting for potential hamas militants. there is, of course, that ongoing hostage situation. that is a major complicating factor here. because, in the past, when there have been conflicts between israel and hamas, israel moves in quickly, launches devastating attacks against hamas infrastructure in gaza, but it is finding that very difficult this time because there are dozens of hostages, perhaps 100, perhaps more inside gaza, and israeli officials except they're being used as human shields. as you mentioned, israel is

mobilizing for war. the army said a short while ago it's called up 300,000 reservists. it could be that it is trying to secure the country, or it could be that it is preparing for another phase of this conflict, potentially a ground assault into the gaza strip, which would be very risky for the hostages, very costly for the palestinians and likely costly for the israelis, as well. >> richard, as you were speaking, we were seeing some images of the young music festival-goers fleeing for their safety. we know more than 200 killed there. just horrifying images. you mentioned, of course, the complications presented by the hostages being held there by hamas. we know from senate majority leader schumer that at least four americans have died. do you have a sense on the ground, are there any americans currently being held hostage? >> reporter: the breakup or the makeup of the hostages is, for

now, a closely held secret. the number of the hostahostages they are, have not been released. the israeli media is talking about 100, but keeping it more generic, talking about dozens, but it'd not be surprising. israel and the united states are very close. there are dual nationals here. i've been speaking to dual nationals this morning who lived here, so it is possible but i don't have that confirmed right now. >> all right. we greatly appreciate your reporting. stay safe. we'll be checking in later on in the day. chief foreign correspondent richard engel, thank you again. joining us now, international spokesperson for israel's defense forces, lieutenant colonel richard hek. thank you for being with us this morning. please give us the latest, if you will, in the ongoing mission there in southern israel. >> richard, your report on the

ground told the story probably much better than i. it means we're doing a good job in trying to talk about the level of this event, which is an epic event. as mentioned, and he did it very well, more or less on spot, we are now stabilizing. the communities, there are still small pockets. we managed to take control. it took us longer than we thought. back in the communities around the gaza strip. the gore and the carnage and the inhumane activity in hamas, in these settlements is starting to unfold, because we're now speaking to the families, understanding they went through tragic, tragic events, tragic, tragic events. we stabilized that, and we are now focused on organizing the area. we have deployed four divisions to gaza, and we're trying to organize the area, so to

stabilize the gaza strip and their communities. by the end of the day, we should be able to evacuate most of our communities, and whatever is left, away from the gaza, so they can recuperate nearer to the center of the country. >> sir, the israeli defense minister, short time ago, deemed what he said was a complete siege on gaza, saying authorities would cut entrance and block food and fuel to the area. tell us what exactly that means, and how long could something like that be put in place? what's the end game? >> so the end game, from the military perspective, i know the spokesperson for our minister of defense, but from the military perspective, we are now acting to secure the border. there's still areas where we haven't fixed the border completely, where they breached, and we are securing the border. we are also severely targeting hamas targets inside the gaza

strip. again, before we run to the gazans, we have to give place to what happened within the israeli public. they started this. one of the tragic events when i look at them is that they targeted the crossing. a week ago, it was getting, more people were coming to israel for work. one of the pickup truck lines were coming through the crossing, and it was an inhumane action. >> were you surprised by the way hamas managed to mount this operation, carry it out, get

through the fence and get within 15 kilometers of israeli territory, even attack an israeli military base? are you surprised they were able to do that without israel being aware of what was about to happen? >> these are big questions. i'm sure they'll be talked about, and books will be written about what happened here with this surprise attack. we said it out loud, it was a surprise attack. combined offensive. this will be talked about a lot. right now, i think our directive is to talk about what's actually happening on the ground. it's getting back our safety and severely degrading hamas capability in the gaza strip. sadly, they've taken -- they're using people as human shields, and all their headquarters are entrenched in civilian community. there are attacks from last night which are the launching pads for hundreds of terrorists that came into israel. >> colonel, you spoke about the

human shields, and i assume you're referring to the palestinian human shields that are frequently used in gaza and put amongst military installations. but this operation is more complicated than any the idf has ever faced before, because there are israeli captives, dozens of them, we are told, inside gaza. what are your options, given there are israeli hostages inside gaza at the moment? >> so we're the people's army. again, i'm bringing in a personal perspective, which is something very important for the people watching this to understand. every soldier that i have out here, even myself, a child that grew up in my house, one of the best friends for my daughter died. we just found -- just before we came on, we got told they found his body in the headquarters. this is everybody. this has touched everybody here. the hostage situation is handled very, very sensitively. the idf was taking control of

this. first of all, engaging with the families. a lot of families still don't know what's happening. it's slowly unfolding while we understand the picture. it'll take us some more time. yes, it's going to be a very, very challenging military operation. i'm sure there's diplomatic challenges going on. right now, the idf is planning to severely degrade hamas capabilities, i repeat. >> international spokesperson for israel's defense forces, lieutenant colonel richard hecht, thank you for coming on this morning. condolences on the loss you just said. >> thank you for having me. >> we will get into that, how could this have happened, the intelligence failures, when "morning joe" returns in 60 seconds. we'll dive into the question. we'll be right back in one minute. back in one minute

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aftermath still playing out this morning. we're now going to bring in david ignatius from "the washington post," and our friend, richard haass, former president of the council on foreign relations, to dive into this. david, i'll start with you. i know the burning question in your mind is, how could this have happened? israel has a premier intelligence operation. the forces are charged with preventing something like this from ever occurring. what is your sense as to how they got caught so badly off guard saturday morning? >> john, i'm just struck, as i think we all are, by the scope and horror of this, listening to the spokesman say every family has been touched. last night, his counterpart. another spokesman said this is the worst day in israeli history. how could that have happened? what went wrong? what was the failure of intelligence and, as i wrote in a column last night, was it a failure of gathering the right

information? i think of understanding the information, people likened this terrible event to 9/11 in the united states, the 2001 attacks by al qaeda. americans never imagined that al qaeda could seize airplanes and use them as weapons to attack buildings. i think israelis may never have imagined that their adversaries in gaza, hamas fighters, terrorists in this case, could use paragliders to fly into israel, could move quickly, 1,000 of them through the fence. there was a failure of imagination and a sense of understanding. after 9/11, we went through a long investigation. it turned out so many of the pieces of information that would have allowed you to see the attacks coming were in the system but weren't understood. the famous phrase was, an inability to connect the dots and see what was going on.

whether we'll find that to be the case here, it's too early to say. i'm sure israelis will be haunted by this failure, that they've believed in their intelligence service as the best protection, believed in the iron dome system and its ability to keep rockets from striking israeli villages. it's fair to say that most israelis simply couldn't have imagined that something like this would happen. one final point, the crucial question today is not looking backward at the intelligence failure, but looking forward and trying to make sense of whether this was going to become a much wider war. "the wall street journal" last night published an article that said that iran had participated in the planning of the operation and had given a green light, in effect, for the operation. if israel decides that iran was fundamentally responsible, we have the risk of a much wider war ahead with u.s. aircraft

carrier task force streaming into the mediterranean. it is as dangerous a situation as i can remember seeing in the middle east. >> some u.s. and israeli officials pushed back against the "wall street journal" reporting last night, but that is the open question. richard, we'll dive into iran's potential role in a few minutes. first, i want to get your overall impressions into what you saw this weekend, this incredible failure to anticipate and prevent this attack. give us your sense as to what you see and what you think happens now. >> i agree with david. it wasn't a collection failure. the israelis, i think, will find they had a lot of warning. it was an analytical failure, mindset failure. they didn't take the hamas military threat seriously. more devastating, it could be a defense failure, as well. why was it that so many israeli forces that would normally be on alert against gaza and those parts of israel were probably in the west bank, and i think

that'll be a real political issue for this prime minister and this government, simply because it'll be a question of their priorities, protecting settlers and so forth. i think when, ultimately, already commissions of inquiry, and this will take months, we have to deal with the immediate problem, but there will be serious defense as well as intelligence issues. right now for israel, they've got a major dilemma. the word dilemma is overused, but it appies here. they want to send the message that terrorism is unacceptable. they want hamas to pay a price, deter. arguments for this. but you have the israeli hostages to worry about. you have the history. israel has been in gaza. they left in 2005. it's one of the most densely populated real estate on planet earth. there aren't good military options. hamas cannot be totally eliminated given its nature. for israel and for the united states as their supporter, the question is, what do you do? you want to show terrorism is

unacceptable. on the other hand, you have to think about, how many more militant casualties do you want to take? you have the backing right now coalescing around israel. israel has dilemmas on what to do from here on now. >> katty, the attacks come at what was already a fraught moment for the israeli prime minister, netanyahu. questions on investigations into his and his administration's contact, and a moment where relations between he and president biden have been tense, to say the least. we saw them together on the sidelines of the united nations general assembly a few weeks ago touting this possibility of an israeli-saudi arabia break through. this is a tricky moment for him and the white house. >> yeah. i mean, richard was talking about what was missed there. were things missed in the u.s.? intelligence forum, as well. joining us from the north lawn of the white house is nbc news senior white house correspondent

gabe gutierrez. fill us in on a couple things. "the wall street journal" report pointing the finger directly at iran in terms of planning. the white house is pushing back on some of that. white house also pushing back on the notion that has raised by some of the republican candidates, that this was financed by money that was moved from south korea to qatar as part of the hostage deal the americans got out five americans being in iranian prisons. what is the white house's latest position and thinking at the moment? >> reporter: hi there, good morning. several points to get to. you mentioned "the wall street journal" reporting. iran may have helped plot these attacks. as was mentioned, the u.s. is pushing back strongly on that. three u.s. officials tell nbc news that, so far, they have no evidence to corroborate "the wall street journal" account. secretary blinken in an interview said he hadn't seen evidence that iran was directly behind this attack.

he did point out iran and hamas have had a long relationship. he also said that u.s. officials were looking into whether part of this -- part of the motivation for this attack may have been to try to derail those talks between saudi arabia, israel, and the u.s., of normalizing relations between saudi arabia and israel. but this all comes at a very difficult time for president biden as he faces multiple foreign policy challenges, including potential fatigue over the war in ukraine, escalating tensions between taiwan and china, and also that potential agreement that could be derailed between saudi arabia and israel. so the president has been seeing a lot of backlash from the gop presidential candidates. they are arguing that his weak leadership somehow contributed to this attack. over the weekend, donald trump, ron desantis and nikki haley attacking the biden administration over how they've handled this. yesterday, secretary of state antony blinken pushed back on this very strongly, the idea

that somehow the $6 billion in iranian oil revenues that were unfrozen several weeks ago by the united states in explain for five american citizens that were released, the secretary saying that not a cent of that money has gone to iran yet. even when it does, it has to be used for humanitarian assistance. he said any suggestion otherwise, that the $6 billion was somehow used to finance this attack, he called that misinformation. over the weekend, president biden speaking on saturday in remarks here at the white house, also speaking multiple times with israeli prime minister netanyahu, as he tries to shore up support for israel. of course, you mentioned those military assets that are now heading into the eastern mediterranean to try to act as a deterrent, as the white house tries to scramble to contain this attack and prevent it from becoming a multifaceted, multi-front regional conflict in the middle east.

katty. >> we should underscore, gabe, what you just said there, that not a dime of that money has been touched yet. it's still sitting in a doha bank. we heard from the president over the weekend. he doesn't have any public events scheduled yet today. we'll see if that changes. senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. thank you. as gabe mentioned, this is a moment where there is fatigue potentially with the war in ukraine. the u.s. does not have a confirmed ambassador to israel. it comes at a moment where there is no speaker of the house. we'll get into how the chaotic scene within the house of representatives, the republican-led house of representatives is shaping the u.s. response to this crisis, when we come right back.

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when i got back to the hotel, i joined others in the bomb shelter or the stairwells of the hotel, frightened faces that were children and elderly, families, many americans. there was a sense of fear and worry, and a knowledge of too many of us that there are horrific things going on around the country at that time. we who believe in peace, freedom, and human rights for palestinians, for israelis, for all humankind, must reject those who use terror as their weapon. >> senator cory booker of new jersey with that post on social media about the attacks. he was in israel ahead of a summit of the abraham accords. he is back safely in the u.s. now. representative dan goldman of new york was also in israel attending a bat mitzvah. he had to shelter in place during rocket launches, but he's also safely returned home. richard haass, let's talk a little bit about two things. first, what we started to

mention before the break, about this precarious moment for prime minister netanyahu. you know, where these attacks -- tell us what his immediate and long-term future looks like, and, more pressingly, the war itself. is this going to remain, in your estimation, you know, where it is now, but does this have a chance to spiral, to increase to a number of fronts and a number of other nations being involved? >> it could stay where it is if hamas' goal was simply to demonstrate that only it can promote the interest of palestinians, as they see it, to set up a swab between prisoners, hamas prisoners and israel for hostages. it could stay where it is. the odds are slightly against it, given the israeli military action, given the dynamics set in play. big question is what does hezbollah do? as strong as hamas is, hezbollah is comparably stronger. hundreds of rockets could go into israel. does it spread to the west bank, to jerusalem? if iran was involved, are there military actions taken against

iran? this can spread in all sorts of ways. i would think the thing to keep the biggest eye on is what happens in southern lebanon. does hezbollah, perhaps at iranian prompting, enter the fray? >> katty, a lot of eyes on the report we mentioned, about whether iran played a direct role in this. there's been some pushback, but certainly, if it does come out that iran was promoting this, israel could take significant steps in return. >> yeah, that's all happening now behind the scenes with the intelligence investigation, clearly on how this happened and what was missed, but the israelis missed an urgent and incredible calculation more immediately, what to do about the israelis and foreigners. there are germans there, americans, brazilians and mexicans reported to be there, as well. what happens to the people being held at the moment in tunnels underneath gaza?

david, you know, if you were sitting in tel-aviv orfiguring e options are, whatever security forces you are, what are the options for the israelis? the practice in the past has been to go hard into gaza, and we've seen some to have that, but it must be complicated by those israelis who are being held there. >> i think it is a military planner's nightmare. the typical israeli response would be to go in hard in the immediate aftermath of the attack on saturday. the expectation was that there would be a reinvasion of gaza. netanyahu's words seem to imply that. as we learn how many hostages have been taken and were being kept hidden away inside gaza. the problems with mounting that kind of invasion became more

clear. these hostages will be human shields in a particularly devastating way. israelis just abhor the loss of israeli life and do everything they can to avoid it. when hostages are taken, they go to extraordinary lengths to get them out. planning this military operation in a way that preserves, to the extent possible, israeli life, but also reestablishes deterrents. let's remember, what happened here was israel's deterrence, israel's ability to scare people into not doing extraordinary attacks like this, failed. they've got to somehow reestablish that. and i think, finally, the question is, do they want to reconquer gaza? do they want to administer this really dreadful, difficult, small quarter, like an overgrown refugee camp when i've visited in the past, do they want to take that over again, or do they

want to hold back from that? i'm sure they're talking to the jordanians, egyptians, other arab countries. one more thing, something really important was just over the horizon in israeli normalization with saudi arabia. that would be a transforming event. it would effectively signal the end of the arab-israeli conflict. i think the iranians were frightened about it. it would overturn their basic ordering principle for their own foreign policy. they had every reason to try to derail that. will the u.s. and israel push forward with that? the saudi initial response was not all that supportive of israel, but will there be efforts over the coming week to get saudis to speak up and condemn this invasion? then you'd see a positive prospect for israel to have partners to deal with this nightmare of hamas, to deal with gaza going forward, to reestablish some kind of

palestinian authority that's not based in hostage taking and terrorist attacks. >> those are live pictures, by the way, from gaza we're looking at at the moment. it is 1:35 in the afternoon, so early afternoon at the moment in the region. clearly, some of the smoke billowing up from attacks on gaza by the israelis that are still happening. you've been writing about the intelligence failures, david, and at the end of your piece, you wrote this. when we say the gaza outrage was an israeli version of 9/11, we should remember the other big lesson of that catastrophe, other than our failure to see it coming. the united states overreacted. it didn't simply take revenge and destroy its enemies, it sought to remake the middle east with long, mostly fruitless wars in iraq and afghanistan. is there a risk that israel now overreacts, as well? >> so i'm -- i hope that israeli planners are thinking about the longer term process that they want to set in motion. i watched in 1982 when i was a

young correspondent, the israelis overreact in what many israelis now would say was an unwise invasion of lebanon. to go after the plo strongholds in beirut. that that operation was very difficult. many israelis would say it left the country weaker than it'd been before. i think that's the kind of parallel that military planners should be thinking about. obviously, the danger here is of moving into a much wider war that involves iran directly, that involves hezbollah, lebanon directly, that would involve syria. israel is surrounded. a factor i'm curious about is whether china, which is brokering some kind of de-escalation between saudi arabia and iran, will be brought into the diplomatic part of this to try to stabilize things, to

make contact with iran, through iran, make contact with others in the arab world. we don't know what's ahead. all we know is it's really dangerous. >> all right. we'll have much, much more on this conversation in just a moment. still ahead also on "morning joe," what senator tommy tuberville is saying about how the attacks in israel could impact his blockade on military promotions. plus, we're getting reaction from some republican presidential candidates. why they're blaming the biden administration for the attacks. we'll provide a fact check. tomorrow, one of those gop candidates, florida governor ron desantis, will join "morning joe" for a live interview. that's tomorrow. you're not going to want to miss it. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the sun is rising at 6:42 a.m. in washington, d.c. a beautiful shot. it'll be in washington where the

house gop will hold a meeting later today, kicking off a week of jockeying among republicans interested many becoming the next house speaker, after kevin mccarthy was ousted from that post last week. currently, the number two republican in the house, steve scalise, is in a two-way race with jim jordan, a leader of the party's conservative wing as they vie to lead the chamber. this evening, the republican conference will meet behind a closed door for a members only discussion. according to the invitation, phones are to be checked at the door, and staff members are not allowed in the gathering. tomorrow, the conference will hold a candidate forum. then on wednesday, the nferce plans to hol an internal election for speaker, which could be followed by a potential house i'll just say, very few people in washington i speak to thinks this calendar is going to stick and we'd get a speaker as soon as wednesday. someone following this closely, capitol hill correspondent ali

vitali. ali, walk us through what we might see the next couple days and the complications provided by the war in israel. >> yeah. i'm with you personally, jonathan, that we're not going to see this come to a full consensus on wednesday. that's a problem on a few fronts. the first front is, of course, that it helps the house to have a speaker. that's not just a nice to have thing, though. the current situation in israel is a reminder that having a speaker protempore, which the house has in patrick mchenry, means he is powerless in terms of actively being able to bring things to the floor, whether that be resolutions condemning hamas, which several lawmakers say they're working on right now, or things that are more serious in nature, like how do you get aid to this country and to our allies? all of that is going to be in the mix as lawmakers come to town, but i'm not sure it shakes things loose in a constructive fashion for republicans to have a time choosing the next leader

in the house. when you think about people like steve scalise and jim jordan, yes,e going from three to two, kevin hern developing -- dropping out in recent days, but i have a hard time seeing jim jordan, though he has trump's vote, i don't see trump moving votes on capitol hill. i have a hard time seeing moderate republicans in tough to defend districts, thinking like my home district in new york, it's going to be hard for them to get behind a fire brand like jim jordan and play defense against the attack adds. i think all of that is going to make it really difficult for republicans to get in a room on wednesday and come to a consensus. i've been wrong before. we could see that. maybe some of the republicans who went on the sunday shows this weekend and said they think it's going to be an easy time, maybe they're right. but if there's any we've seen on capitol hill lately, it is that nothing is easy. everything is chaos. i don't expect this week to be

any different. >> in a crisis, it would be a good moment to have leadership in congress and, of course, leadership in the military. >> one would think. >> right? a good moment to have that. tommy tuberville of alabama, however, is standing firm on his months' long blockade on hundreds of militarypromotions despite the deadly conflict in israel. his blockade put a hold on 300 nominees, including top officers who would command forces in the middle east. including rear admiral george witkoff, slated to lead the naval forces operating in the middle east. at the moment, the fifth fleet admiral, cooper, is supposed to be promoted to deputy commander of centcom, overseeing troops in the middle east, but that's also being held up by tuberville. tuberville's office reaffirmed his stance and suggests democrats could call the

individual nominations, taking hundreds of hours. the republican senator has maintained the promotions blockade to protest the defense department's policy that gives time off and reimbursements for service members and their family members seeking abortions out of state. it seems like an extraordinary time for america not to have the people in place they need in centcom and in the fifth fleet, just as the fifth fleet, ali, is moving closer to the region. is there anyone there on capitol hill, presumably on the senate side, i'm not sure where the leadership would come from, but that could put pressure on senator tuberville to say, "we get the stance, but right now, u.s. forces are in position where they could materially aid our key ally in the region, israel, and we need the promotions in post." >> of course, the landscapehas

changed over the couple days, but the pressure has been on the senator from alabama. each turn where there is an opportunity for an exit ramp, he doesn't take it and continues to hold his ground here. we did see the confirmation of three key postings. that was something that senator chuck schumer did a few weeks ago. but as you mentioned, it would take hours to go through each of these positions, one by one, and confirm them. the national security concerns here are not new. from the moment that tuberville began this blockade and these promotions started piling up, experts and national security officials were clear, this is endangering u.s. national security. that has not changed tuberville's mind. it's going to be interesting to see whether or not israel now being a factor implicates or changes anything in the mind of the senator, but i do think it is important to note, we're not going to see senators back this week. they are out of town on recess, some of them on codels across the country, sorry, across the world.

that is going to be something that keeps them from washington. they're getting briefed, but in terms of pressing senator tuberville, that's not something we'll see. there is also the open question of now that israel is part of the landscape, how does this impact the conversation around ukraine aid, as some senators have been calling for aid for israel now. >> we'll dive into that complication in a while. capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, thank you. busy few days ahead for you. appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe," we'll go live to tel-aviv for the latest on the war with hamas and what the u.s. is doing to assist and support israel. plus, an analysis from retired navy admiral james stavridis. he was in charge of u.s.-israeli military operation for four years. we'll get his take on what's coming next, following what he deems a 9/11 level event. also ahead, the ranking democrat on the house foreign affairs committee, congressman gregory meeks, will join the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back. back

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6:53 a.m. on the east coast. afternoon in gaza city. we're look at live footage there of smoke billowing over gaza city as part of, presumably, israel's response to the violence of the weekend. david ignatius, you are just back, of course, from kyiv. the situation in ukraine and that in israel seem oddly linked. first of all, of course, there's the possible role that iran is playing hire in the violence in the middle east. we know that iran has partnered with russia in their own war effort. there's also, as ali just sort of hinted at, this sort of political jiu-jitsu being played by some of the republican party who are eager to drawdown u.s. support for kyiv but yet are rushing to aid israel. >> so it is a world of trouble.

i wasn't in ukraine. i left ukraine on saturday. seeing that war, hearing from ukrainians, the sense of exhaustion but still intense commitment as they face a winter that's going to be, i think, even more difficult than last winter, trying to think about how they push the russians back, how they push on and hope toward victory. their dependence on u.s. aid is absolutely 100%, as somebody said to me. one idea i heard from a republican who knows the house well is, maybe you can get a package that pulls together aid to israel, aid to taiwan, aid to ukraine, and put it all together in a package for friends of america and try to get something through this year. but i think for the moment, what

must please the russians moment, jonathan, is that the attention is off the ukraine war. everybody in the world is going to be focusing on israel and the situation in the middle east for the next while, and the russians will see if there's any letup, if the russians seek to play any diplomatic role. they have pretty good relations with israel under the table. it's something i'll be watching. >> david, your last point i wanted to pick up on, which is whether this causes some distraction or turning away from ukraine. you were just there. was it your sense of how the leadership in ukraine sees the passage of time. you saw the polish farmers, that issue. you've seen what's happened in the house. now, there's this. whether there is a growing concern that putin may have a point, unfortunately, that time is not their friend and that the rest of the world will grow a little bit fatigued with the war and start focusing on other

things. >> war fatigue is without question a concern in kyiv. the fatigue of their donor nations, the united states and europe, but the fatigue of the ukrainian people. they've taken such a punishing depletion of their front line units. it's terrible. it's one reason their counteroffensive is slow, they're just losing so many people in the minefields. i visited a hospital that makes prosthetic limbs for amputees. the number of amputees you see coming off the front lines is just heart rending. i think there's concern in kyiv. what people say, you know, when you press anybody, is we are in this for as long as it takes. we are so grateful to the united states for standing by us. without america's help, you know, we would not stand a chance of fighting this russian aggression. so i hope people in the united states hear that, hear those

voices, even as we're focusing this week on the terrible events in israel. >> yeah. certainly, even as the world's attention turns to israel, russia has not relented. couple terrible air strikes with dozens of fatalities over the weekend in ukraine. "the washington post"'s david ignatius, grateful to you for joining us this morning. >> thanks, john. coming up on "morning joe," we'll have a live report from israel as the conflict between israel and hamas terrorists is in its third day. and we'll get expert military analysis on everything happening in the middle east. "morning joe" is coming right back. back [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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welcome back at 7:00 a.m. on the east coast, 2:00 p.m. in gaza and israel, where half an hour ago, the israeli defense forces say they launched an extensive, is what they're calling it, attack on hamas centers in gaza. it looks a little from this image like the smoke has dissipated, but over the course of the last half hour, we've seen this city billowing with smoke from attacks from the israelis as they strike back against hamas. israel, of course, continuing its fight against hamas militants as the war enters its third day now. the country has ordered a complete siege of the gaza strip, as it works to regain control of its communities along the border. officials stress the situation is fluid, of course, amid ongoing clashes with hamas militants. in an unprecedented and surprise

attack, hamas militants stormed the blockaded gaza strip early saturday morning. the chaos stretched across land, air, and sea, as thousands of rockets were fired into israel. the death toll has topped 1,200. at least 700 people have been killed in israel israeli defens. chuck schumer confirmed at least four americans are among the dead. that toll is expected to rise. meanwhile, a senior hamas official says the militant group is holding more than 100 people captive in gaza. joining us now from tel-aviv, israel, nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella. you're a little way from the border, kelly, but what are you hearing about the situation? what is the israeli response against hamas at the moment? >> reporter: well, we're hearing they have launched an extensive strike on hamas positions, large-scale strike on hamas

operational positions inside gaza. i think that's what we're seeing in that video, those huge plumes of smoke over gaza city, as they launch into what is potentially a next phase of their reaction to this unprecedented attack over the weekend. at the same time, here in tel-aviv, over the past probably hour, hour and a half or so, we've been hearing air-raid sirens off and on. we hear the occasional thud, rumble, some closer than others. we know that at least three rockets have hit three different cities in the south this morning, just in the past couple of hours. so very much an ongoing situation here in tel-aviv. it is interesting. you know, the city is usually very, very busy in the middle of the day. i'm sure you would know, katty, having been here. a gridlock really on the streets. there is almost nobody on the streets. there's very little traffic.

a lot of shops are closed. a somber and quiet mood here in tel-aviv as people try to come to grips with what has happened. we understand that there was some fighting in the south between militants from gaza and the israeli military. the israeli military now saying that they have evacuated a lot of people from the neighborhoods closer to gaza and told others to shelter in place. it sounds as though they're indicating that that fighting has now died down quite a bit. focus now is inside gaza. bringing us to the next point, more than 2 million people live in the tiny enclave. a lot of civilians there tightly packed in. some 75,000, we understand from one u.n. agency, sheltering at schools. there aren't a lot of places to hide from the explosions in that city, and there's really no way out. nearly 500 people killed inside

gaza, according to gazan health officials, and a desperate situation there for civilians, as well. here, katty, we've been talking to relatives of those missing, and they've been telling us they're at a loss. they haven't heard anything. one woman telling me she last spoke to her 23-year-old daughter at about 10:00, just before 11:00 in the morning on saturday. she'd been at the music festival in the south. her last communication with her daughter was her daughter telling her, please, please, help us. i'm wounded. everybody else is wounded in the car. we don't know what to do. the phone line dropped. that's a pretty familiar story from the families that i've been talking to. you know, they're not hearing much about where their relatives are. they're not getting much information from the israeli government. on top of that, you have the issue of hostages inside gaza. according to militants, one militant group inside gaza, as many as 130 inside that enclave,

as this operation continues. katty. >> all during the day, i know, kelly, israelis have been watching those heart-wrenching videos from family members who have had people taken, who are now hostage, we assume, inside gaza. have you had any reporting or are you hearing anything from israeli sources on what the options are facing the israelis at the moment, as they try to get those hostages back? are they looking at prisoner swaps, invasions, going into the tunnels? what are you hearing? >> reporter: they're not saying anything publicly, and we're not getting even any hint as to what the next step might be. you know, there's been a lot of military movement, a lot of tanks on the streets in the southern part of the country. we see what's happening in gaza, obviously. gun battles in the south, as well, and trying to secure that territory in the south. but this is the real problem, katty, how do you address the situation of all of those families still in gaza?

there have been some reports, completely unconfirmed and unverified, of possible prisoner swaps, but where do you even begin? hamas, for them, these people are potential bargaining chips. they're a potential shield from a stronger israeli counterattack or possible ground invasion. so it's hard to see where the government goes next and where hamas goes next. could there be a prisoner swab? i suppose that's an option. we're not hearing anything like that is in play right now, though. >> okay. nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella reporting for us from tel-aviv. kelly, thank you so much. john, the israelis face a short-term crisis, what to do about the hostages and the security situation, but, boy, they also face a lot of long-term questions about how to deal with the palestinian question, which they tried to put on the back burner.

clearly, from now on, they will not be able to. >> yeah, this israeli government shifted its focus away from that issue. now, of course, we also wonder if this conflict could spiral into something. let's continue the conversation by bringing in some of the best. nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. as well as former supreme allied commander, five-star admiral james stavridis. richard haass also back with us. he is president emeritus of the council on foreign relations. good to have you all with us on this important monday morning. admiral, let's start with you. just your reaction to what unfolded over the weekend and, in particular, the government of israel and its intelligence and military, seeing some of the best in the world, their mission is to prevent exactly this from happening. how do you think they got so caught off guard? >> well, first and foremost, it is a sense in the country that

things were okay, that they could, as they called it, kind of mow the lawn, mow the grass in gaza, go in and out. i think there was something of a place of complacency, to be honest. look, israel is going to spend years pulling this one apart, and it really is comparable in an intelligence sense, in my view, to the failure of 9/11, and the numbers here are really staggering. again, you have to remember, israel has a population of 9 million, 10 million total. u.s. is 35 times larger. so when you see 1,000 killed, think 35,000. when you see 2,000, when you see 200 hostages, think 2,000 hostages. so big intelligence failure. i was shocked by the intelligence failure, but i was

not surprised about where this was headed, the tensions with palestine and israel are manifest. as was mentioned just a moment ago, as the parties, israel, saudi arabia, u.s., are kind of drawing closer together in this idea of furthering the abraham accords, i think the palestinians saw their place at the table had not even made it to the foot of the table. they were just off the table. so this is their attempt to try and jump back into it. hey, final thought, just military perspective here. there is no harder military operation than invaing an urban area. we sometimes call that the three block war, the six block war. the palestinians, hamas, have had decades to prepare the battlefield. they know every nook and cranny.

so if, and i believe when, the israeli ground forces go in, because of these hostages, they will have to, it's going to be an incredibly hard urban fight, like the united states experienced in urban warfare in and around iraq during the forever wa the pentagon of israel has a very tough set of problemshi morning. >> andrea, give us, if you will, sort of the regional perspective. the admiral just mentioned that israel and saudi arabia had been taking steps to improve relations. tell us how that could be playing in here. also, the reporting from "the wall street journal" that iran may have had a direct role in this attack. now, there's been some pushback from u.s. officials to that, but, obviously, were that to be true, that would change the calculation considerably. >> absolutely. "the wall street journal" reporting has, of course, prompted a lot of reaction in washington and elsewhere, capitals around the world.

that would inevitably lead to a much wider war if, in fact, there is attribution to specific regime involvement. even if there is the iranian revolutionary guard, that'd be much more than the fact that, for years, iran has been arming and resupplying hamas. but the pushback is coming from all aspects of the administration, from the state department, the nsc, intelligence community. people i've spoken to, antony blinken pushed back when kristen welker asked him that question yesterday. so far, they've not found the evidence. they're going to go back over the intel. jonathan, you know what they've already been doing since 2:00 a.m. our time, 2:30 a.m. saturday morning, looking back, what did they miss? they say that's not the primary challenge, it is the urban warfare to lies ahead, trying to

get the hostages out, including some americans. all that said, the larger question now is what president biden, jake sullivan, certainly bin salman, the de facto leader in saudi arabia, and i know for a fact prime minister netanyahu had brought to be redrawing the map. ending the war tha basically been in existence between israel and the arab nations, with exception on those who did join the abraham accords under the trump administration and since. it goes back to 1948, the founding of this state of israel, you know, 75 years ago. that is a great deal, just recently i've been talking to, you know, leaders in the u.s. and elsewhere, saying it'd be very difficult to get it past. yet, the palestinian aspect, some two-state solution, which the u.s. is still demanding be part of this kind of an agreement, to get that past the

hard right coalition of benjamin netanyahu. the economic benefits for israel and for saudi arabia and the region and the world are very, very clear. it would be a great coup in an election year in it comes true in the beginning of the year, which is the timetable they thought would be possible to get it to the senate and start getting something done before the heat of the primary season. but there's some opposition in the senate. last week, a large number of senators said they agreed in principle, but the palestinians had to be protected. nuclear safeguards had to be put in place if the saudi demand of nuclear power from the u.s. was going to be granted by the u.s. it was a stretch already, but, now, it's really been derailed. that may, in fact, if iran was involved, certainly it is part of iranian policy, as the president told lester holt last month, that they are dead set against this normalization. it would certainly isolate iran further if saudi arabia and then other arab states following the

saudi lead completed the normalization of relations with israel. >> on iran, republican presidential candidates are making false connections between the attacks on israel and the biden administration's recent hostage deal with tehran. while campaigning in iowa this weekend, donald trump claimed the conflict is the result of the united states giving iran $6 billion over hostages. and in a social media post, florida governor ron desantis suggested the same, saying iran has helped fund the war against israel. here's a fact-check on that misinformation from fox news reporter jennifer griffin. >> the $6 billion is still currently held in a qatari bank account with u.s. treasury secretary oversight, i'm told. the money came from oil souths to south korea and didn't include u.s. dollars. watkins said in a statement, quote, not a single cent from

these funds has been spent. when it is spent, it can only be spent on things like food and medicine for the iranian people. these funds have absolutely nothing to do with the horrific attacks today, and this is not the time to spread disinformation. in fact, the u.s. has pre-positioned $2 billion worth of weapons scored in israel. i'm told the u.s. will likely relief some of these pre-positioned weapons to assist israel in the coming days and weeks. >> an important fact-check in an important venue there on fox news. richard, i know you're depp lie deeply concerned. we were talking about the israeli response, and we were talking about the strikes launched on gaza. what worries you is the lack of diplomatic channels. >> right. it is not just that israel has the military dilemmas. you have the hostages, history, no one wants to reoccupy gaza, and how do you get out once you're in? also, we're not talking enough about diplomacy. the goal ought to be to sideline hamas.

hamas wants to say, we're the only one who is can promote palestinian interests. it's got to be made clear that they are going down a dead end. the way to promote palestinian interest, some of which are truly legitimate, is not through military force, it's through diplomacy. it's through working with israel. we have got to show that's a viable channel. israel has to show that is a viable track, meaning, keeping alive the possibility of the two-state solution, having active diplomacy. israelis don't have a partner now. hamas ruled itself out. the palestinian authority is weak and corrupt. but they have to create conditions where there is a chance for diplomacy, ultimately to succeed. there is not a military solution. you can't eliminate hamas or the kind of political support that it has. there's got to be some other path. i don't see this israeli government, don't see the american government doing enough to create the possible, not immediately. right now, you have to deal with the security situation, but down the road, there's got to be a long-term plan to resurrect the

possibility of a two-state solution. for all its problems, for all its flaws, it is the least bad approach that anyone has yet devised. among other things, not just to help the palestinians, but to make sure israel can remain a jewish and democratic and secure state. >> richard, it was jim stavridis, i think, a few minute minutes ago, mentioning complacency. we mentioned israeli's intelligence failures. few weeks ago, jake sullivan was on a panel saying the middle east is the calmest there has been in decades. was there complacency and lack of intelligence on the u.s. side, as well? what was washington missing in this respect? >> look, i understand what jake was getting at, i think, the strategic emphasis of the united states shifted to europe, to china and the indo-pacific. we're no longer involved like we were with iraq and syria,

afghanistan and the rest. there's also a larger problem with u.s. policy, which is that, you know, if you look at the abraham accords, everything else, we could do middle east peacemaking from the outside in. deal with the arab governments and the palestinian issue would sit there. what we're seeing in the last few days is the palestinian issue won't sit there, and that peace in the middle east, yes, must involve the saudis and others, but they're not at war with israel. the immediate challenge with the israelis is the palestinians in gaza, in the west bank. it's also israeli arabs. their ultimate disposition and so forth. yeah, i think we've been missing this. it hasn't been on the front burner. the question is, how do we get it back on the front burner, granted an extraordinarily difficult circumstances. >> admiral, you mentioned a moment ago you do suspect there will be a ground fight sooner than later there in gaza. tell us, as to what that would

look like, and also your fears or expectations that this war could, as we discussed earlier in the show, widen to involve a number of fronts. >> well, let's start with the sea. you may have noted, jonathan, the united states is now pushing the aircraft carrier, brand-new on "uss gerald r. ford," named after our previous president, alongside her, four burk guided missile destroyers, the best air defense ships in the world, bar none, putting them along the israeli coast as a hedge against hezbollah launching a massive strike. seeing that carrier, those destroyers, that just is an embodiment of the capability we have that can be placed alongside the israeli. but richard haass is exactly right. this is not going to turn on a military campaign. this is going to require not

only that military front end to recreate some level of security for israeli society, but, ultimately, we're going to have to find our way to a diplomatic solution here, which brings us to the second part of your question. the chances of this widening. i think they're not insignificant. i think it's less than even chance we end up in a much wider war. but here's how it could happen. if there is viable, concrete intelligence that shows iran deeply involved in planning, providing for, green lighting, executing these strikes, israel is going to exact a cost for that. that could be in any number of ways, including back toward the iranian homeland. that could launch hezbollah to the north. wait for this number, jonathan, 130,000 service-to-service

missiles in southern lebanon, poised to strike israel. that's a nightmare scenario. i think it is not likely at this point, but it's not entirely insignificant. that's why a carrier battle group is moving forward. that's why the air force is moving f-15 strike eagles, lots of other capability forward, to kind of signal iran to stand back and let's hope we don't end up with the so-called smoking gun that would precipitate a wider conflict here. that gets very dangerous very quickly. >> admiral, as you have been speaking, we're watching live footage from gaza. looks like fresh smoke, new billowing smoke there, potentially from new air strikes from israel. andrea, want to give you the last word at this particular moment. just what are you going to be looking for these next couple days? such fast-moving developments with so much on the line, what

are telltale signs, some clues you're going to be looking for? >> first of all, exactly what admiral stavridis was saying, what is hezbollah going to do? there were a couple rocket attacks yesterday but nothing really significant. but any wide-scale attack from the north would be really serious challenge to israel right now. also, what about the west bank? it's been relatively quiet. we know that there's been so much tension there in the last year, in particular, as, quite frankly, israel has been consumed with its domestic concerns, with the concerns over the attempt to change the judiciary and, critics say, get rid of any kind of checks and balances that would destroy israeli democracy as they've learned to know it. the country was so deeply divided. daily protests involving, by the way, the idf, the security,

military agencies all involved and really demoralized to a great extent, and distracted by the domestic, you know, expansion of settlements, rising tension by the palestinians, violence from both sides, and, of course, the policies of some of the security officials that now lloyd austin and jake sullivan and others have to deal with very, very closely. so the settlements policy has been a real red line for joe biden since the day -- the beginning days of his vice presidency. now, it's really come to a head at a time when he has to rally around israel, reassert what he called the rock solid support of israeli security, which has always been true throughout all their difficulties. he and netanyahu's. and, you know, as richard haass was saying, the palestinian problem is not going away. for all the talk of regional peace, rather, and, you know, great economic benefits, the saudis in the last few days promising that they would

finally raise their oil production if this were to take place, all of that has to take a backseat to what netanyahu and, frankly, the u.s. and others thought was, you know, going to eventually quiet down the palestinian issue. joe biden stressed that to netanyahu when they met last month in new york, but no one really took it to heart. certainly not saudi arabia, for all the lip service. that is the remaining problem that has gone on, you know, basically in refugee camps and elsewhere, for 75 years. >> extraordinarily important back drop to what we are seeing here. andrea mitchell, thank you. we'll be watching "andrea mitchell reports" at noon eastern here on msnbc. retired four-star admiral, james stavridis, thank you, as well. coming up on "morning joe," we'll follow the fighting in the middle east as israel responds to the surprise attack launched by hamas over the weekend. our next guest woke up to air-raid sirens in tel-aviv on saturday and will join us with that firsthand account.

plus, we'll talk to the top state department spokesman about american support for israel. also ahead, israeli ambassador to the u.s., michael herzog will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe," and we'll be right back. bring it to safelite. my customer was enjoying her new car, when her windshield cracked. [gasp] >> customer: my car! >> tech vo: she didn't take it to the dealer. she scheduled with safelite. we have the latest technology for the newest vehicles. and we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: don't wait-- schedule now. ♪ pop music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ conquer financial reports.

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women and children hostages in exchange for the release of 36 palestinian women and children who are being held in israeli jails. that coming from reuters. meanwhile, the israel's minister of energy has announced that the water is being shut off to gaza. that city of some 600,000 people now will be without water. those are just updates of what's happening. it is a very fast-moving situation. we'll try do give you as much reliable information as we can. when the attacks began after dawn on saturday, thousands of young people were dancing at a music festival in the israeli desert 3 miles from the fence that divides israel from the gaza strip. some didn't realize the sounds of explosions over the thumping music. others shrugged the rockets off. the rave was onef the first targets for hamas militants overrunning the concert area, ooting into the crowd, and grabbing as many hostages as

they could. the paper continues, they were tired and defenseless when the attack began, trapped in a wi-open area that offered few hiding places. according to "the post," festival-goers described how the gunmen blocked roads, ambushed escaping cars, and scoured the area looking for people to kidnap. at least 260 bodies were recovered from the concert site yesterday according to a volunteer emergency response group in israel. dozens remain missing. it is unclear how many were taken from that festival. terrible scene there out in the desert. joining us now, contributing writer for "the new york times" magazine, ruth, based in tel-aviv, and ceo of the jewish democratic council of america, hallie. what is happening at the moment, and what are you seeing on television? >> right now, in tel-aviv, there were rockets a couple hours ago,

a lot of sirens. so far, the it's -- it's been quiet. the rocket situation is not new. what has been new here is the sense of total shock among everyone i know. you know, everyone has served in the military and knows people in the military and just the utter failure to respond to this has been really shocking. you know, the number of casualties, the scenes of, you know, militants moving from house to house and kidnapping women, children, taking elderly women out of their homes, you know, snatching them into gaza. these are things no one here has ever seen. certainly not over the past 50 years, since the yom kippur of 1973. there is a total sense of shock, you know, and that's regardless of the rocket situation and the fact that we have to take shelter every once and a while,

you know, when the air-raid sirens sound. >> ruth, just to be clear, are you saying that you feel there was not just the intelligence failure of the attack itself, the intelligence that broke down before hamas came across the border, but also how hamas responded in the hours afterward? was there a slow reaction. >> there has been a slow reaction, and it seems to be mostly coming from, you know, the government. there has been no policy, really, given out to the public. i know about people who have been called up, military reservists who have been called up into service, and they're supposed to go down south and protect the southern communities and, yet, they've waited for over a day, more than 24 hours in central israel before being sort of shifted down south. oftentimes, their parents had to drive them there. you know, there were these

makeshift bus rides. you know, civilians coming in and offering equipment and offering the army help. this is really unprecedented, you know? we're so used, in israel, to having this kind of ideal of a strong military. suddenly, the government is just completely silent. these are ministers who sort of tweet at every coming thing. we're used to seeing, you know, sort of complete inundation of the airwaves and constantly responding to everything. suddenly, there's this massive attack, 700 dead, andsilence. this is really unfathomable. so i'm not blaming the military, but there's just a sense that, you know, nothing is sort of moving on the ground. everything, sort of everything is lacking on so many fronts. >> hailey, let's get your

analysis of what the proper response should be from this country, from the united states. these attacks, of course, come as there is no speaker of the house. the house is operating on a continuing resolution. there is no confirmed ambassador to israel. what do you see as the most important first steps the biden administration and the congress should be taking? >> thanks. i'll start by saying this is a dark day of profound loss and uncertainty in israel, and this is the largest massacre in a single day of jewish people since the holocaust. in response, the biden administration has been unequivocal in terms of its support of israel's security and its right to self-defense. but you're right, our response is somewhat impeded by the inability of republicans to govern. there's no speaker of the house. any aid, additional aid that would be sent to israel is now going to be impeded in the house without a speaker, they can't go

forward. we don't have an ambassador in in israel. the senate should come back tomorrow and confirm jake liu. there is the military promotions that have been stalled for six months by senator tuberville. republicans are impeding our effort to respond, but president biden has been unequivocal in his support of israel's security and right to self-defense. we are moving military constellations in the middle east. we are moving a strike carrier group to the eastern mediterranean and sending supplies to support israel. >> just before this conversation began, there were reports that israel is contemplating cutting off water to gaza, essentially laying siege to it. isn't that the sort of thing the administration should discourage, that sort of action by israel which would, inevitably, hurt non-combatants

there and could even threaten the status of the -- of those being held hostage? should the united states try to influence what israel does and doesn't do going forward? >> israel isgrappling with an inperes unprecedented wave of terror, the likes of which haven't been seen before. president biden says the military will determine how to respond. president biden said our support will be rock solid and unequivocal. >> contributing writer for "the new york times" magazine, and halie, thank you, both, for coming up this morning. coming up, we'll have continuing coverage on the conflict in israel. plus, a possible catalyst for the deadly attacks according to the secretary of ate antony

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it's no surprise that those who are opposed to the talks, those opposed to israel normalizing its relations with its neighbors and countries beyond the region are hamas, hezbollah, and iran. so it's entirely possible one of the motivations for the attack was to try to derail these efforts to advance normalization. >> that was secretary of state antony blinken on "meet the press" yesterday, suggesting the recent normalization talks between the saudis and israelis could have played a role in hamas' stunning attack on israel over the weekend. joining us on set is the president of the rockefeller foundation, raj shah. he previously served as administrator for u.s. aid. he is out with a new book titled, "big bets, how

large-scale change really happens." raj, you have a background on moments like this, where there needs to be a humanitarian region. let's just get your take as to what you've seen over the weekend and the need to balance a military operation with the humanitarian one. >> well, thank you for having me. i would just say this attack that killed 700 israelis is horrific and has been and should be condemned in no uncertain terms. when america is at its best, projecting our power abroad, we use all elements of american diplomacy defense and our development and humanitarian platforms, like the u.s. agency of international development, and the u.n. system we support to do that. as the response unfolds, this will be an aggressive attack, of course, from israel back into gaza. that is incredibly justified given the horrific terrorist attack into israel. more than a quarter of the population in the gaza strip was already receiving humanitarian

aid, and it'll be very important to maintain humanitarian aid visibility, support, and engagement throughout the region, and to track what's going to happen for food insecurity, water access, not just in the gaza strip but around the region, because that's a key part of maintaining stability and ensuring that the region stays together. >> raj, to what extent is it right, proper and necessary for the united states to try to shape israel's response? yes, israel has every right to show that terrorism cannot be allowed to take place with impunity. on the other hand, there will be civilian casualties, collateral damage, given how densely packed the gaza strip is. what should the united states be doing there? is it legitimate for us to go to the israels, "you should do this, you can do this, but, quite honestly, this is going over a line?" >> it is hard to set red lines on the front end of this. i think you have to have everyone at the table together, and they have to manage what the immediate priorities are. clearly, in order to enable

israel to have a strong and effective response that protects its own national security, which is clearly president biden's first and foremost concern, there has to be evaluation and consideration of humanitarian affairs throughout the region. you know, there are very few places, obviously, for people in gaza to evacuate to. you mentioned the dense population. this has been a playbook that's played out five, six times over the last 15 years. so the u.n. partners, likehe world food program and others, partners like mercy corps that are on the group, they know how to provide support in even difficult circumstances. i'm sure as the military plans are taking hold, it is in israel's interest to make sure that you don't have a widespread, huge humanitarian catastrophe that starts to sway public opinion around the world in a different way. that's in israel's interest. right now, we should be standing with israel's interest fully. >> raj, of course, your new book picks up a new timeliness because of all that's happening.

"big bets, how large-scale change really happens. "tell us about it. >> well, i wrote this book because i had a chance to work with so many great leaders, like richard and others, that have been parts of efforts to really take a long-term view to reshaping our global environment. the bill and melinda gates team, they launched an effort to bring immunizations to children around the world. it's saved 16 million lives. when i served in the obama administration, we had efforts to respond to the haiti earthquake, respond to the ebola pandemic. i draw lessons from that because, in my mind and in my experience, if we invest in these types of efforts, which we do, you know, at a very small total share of gdp and a total share of federal government efforts, and if they can be driven to success, we create an underlying peace and stability around the world based on prosperity, on dignity, and on hope. i think more people should be part of that fight.

more people should be part of that enterprise. america should continue to lead on global development and humanitarian affairs, and so the book offers some lessons learned on how to do so. hopefully a path for young people, in particular, to contribute to making the world more safe, just, and more dignity for those vulnerable. >> the new book titled, "big bets, how large-scale change really happens." president of the rockefeller foundation, raj shah, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. coming up here on "morning joe," we'll keep following the latest from the israel-hamas conflict. we'll get another live report from near the israel-gaza border in just a moment. also ahead, a new film showcases the landmark supreme court decision behind america's most famous sexual assault case. hear the real story of one brave woman whose pursuit of justice changed america forever. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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can you get me out of here? i believe i can. >> don't you believe. >> the man's as guilty as sin. >> the issue is whether this man's conviction should have been allowed into evidence. >> there was not an attorney present. >> don't make him your crusade. >> i really don't care. >> objection, your honor. >> the cases before us raise questions. >> it might make us retry it. >> the whole world wants nothing but to take from us. >> miranda did not request counsel, therefore, we reverse. >> him being locked away.

>> what about the victim? honestly, i don't really care. it's the new film that tells the story behind "the right to remain silent," part of what's known as the miranda rights. in 1964 the supreme court turned over the rape conviction of miranda. the justices ruled that potential defendants must be read their rights before any statements can be used against them as evidence in court. the new movie "miranda's victim" puts a spotlight on the story, its characters, and the legal language that's been the foundation of all criminal cases ever since. joining us now is the film's director michelle. thank you for joining us. what drew you to the story? >> i was just fascinated, first of all, by the story that had never been told. i felt there was a gap in our history. in my last movie before this,

"the runner," you have the right to remain question, i never questioned those words, where the rights come from. this was phoenix, arizona. this gave birth to what we know of as the miranda rights. >> i think every american knows the phrase "miranda rights." i think there are probably a dozen or so who know where it came from. how come we don't know this story? >> well, because patricia never told it before. she kept it private. and our producer asked the question, what happened? what happened to the victim. he sought her out and asked her if she would let us tell her story, and they approached me with this incredible, fascinating story about justice,

and i always loved crime mist. >> let's bring into discussion the person on who this movie is based. patricia shomway. i believe you go by the name trish. >> right. >> it's your story. even though it's known as "miranda's victim," you are the victim in this case. are you aware at the time what you were going through was going to change law in america forever. >> i had no idea. >> when you came forward to testify, how much support did you get from those around you? >> honestly only my sister ann. that was it. no one else in my family believed me. >> no one believed you. you were married at the time. did your husband not believe you? >> not really, no.

it's sad. >> when you see the film come out now, what do you think about it? >> i haven't seen it. i don't want to see it. >> i don't blame you. i understand. this is a very powerful film and a lot of america's history. michelle danner and pa trishy shumwan. schenck you for joining us. still ahead, attacks from gaza. we'll have the latest and the state's didn't on what assistance will be coming from washington. that's just ahead on "morning joe." t ahead on "morning joe.

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weekend. the hotel got woken up at 6:30 in the morning by sirens. we were obviously aware of the reality on the ground. in israel, tel aviv, you have about 90 seconds to get to a shelter. obviously if you're further in the south, you have much less time. i had never heard it before. my kids obviously had no idea what was going on. we woke up, sort of scrambled to the stairwell on saturday morning. it's just unfathomable. our experience was traumatic, but, of course, it is nothing compared to so many israelis down in the south just massacred withbarberism we have not seen. >> that was democrat congressman dan goldman of new york what he and his family experienced when they visited israel over the weekend. ing democrat cory booker was

also there. he made it out. welcome back to "morning joe" starting at 8:00 a.m. on the east coast. i'm jonathan lemire and katty kay in for joe and mika. there are strikes ordered in gaza. this will cut off food, fuel, and electricity to the more than 2 million palestinians living in gaza. israel is in the midst of its counterattack against hamas militants. prime minister benjamin netanyahu declared war saturday night just hours after terrorists launched unprecedented and a surprise attack against israel, breaking down the barricades along the gaza strip and killing hundreds of civilians along the way. joining us now state didn't spokesman matt miller. matt, thanks for joining us. let's start right away. what is the latest we know about the number of americans that may

have been killed in israel? >> we can confirm there are nine american citizens who have lost their lives as a result of these horrific attacks. we obviously extend our condolences. our thoughts are with the victims and their families. we have been offering counselor assistance to those who lost american family members and we'll follow closely and continue to do so. >> of those nine, a deeply tragic number, there are reports of other americans missing or perhaps being held hostage. >> there are reports of americans who are unaccounted for. we continue to work to confirm that number and to try to locate those who are missing. we don't have solid information about either the number or where they might be. we'll continue to work through that with the government of israel as they continue to take back towns in southern israel that were attacked by gaza --

i'm sorry -- by hamas. >> can you give us an update as to what exactly that means in terms of financial and military security assistance? >> sure. in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, the president has ordered everyone to remain in close touch with their counterparts and make sure they have everything they need to respond to the terrorist attack in the most forceful way possible. secretary of state has been in contact with his down about terparts. you saw the first military shipments start to move yesterday. those will arrive in the coming days. that includes munitions. the secretary has been in touch with foreign counterparts to make sure that everyone is clear the horrific attack was unacceptable and even needs to ensure that hamas releases all

-- any and all hostages immediately and takes steps to ensure that the conflict is not widened in terms of hezbollah or other groups, potential enemies seeking to take advantage of this conflict. >> matt, we played earlier in the show. the secretary of state was on "meet the press" yesterday, and news that a possible motivation for these attacks over the weekend for this bloodshed was to prevent this normalization between israel and saudi arabia that's been in the works for a while now. certainly not complete just yet. we've heard cautious optimism from both sides in recent weeks. now, of course, dealing with the aftermath of this violence. can you expand what he meant? what signs you guys are picking up on that suggests that that was indeed motivation for what happened? >> i won't speak to what the motivations for hamas might have been. obviously they've conducted terrorist attacks for years. that's why the united states has

held hamas accountable and has held hamas backers including iran accountable for the attacks they have launched. but it is clear that hamas isle in close normalization relations. it's clear that iran is close. and as the secretary made clear in his appearance on "meet the press" yesterday, there are really two paths for the region to take. one is the path of increased stability, increased relationships between israel and its neighbors, and the other is the path of conflict, of terrorism, of death and destruction. that is the path that hamas and other terrorist organizations offer and it's one that we're deale deeply opposed to and why we're trying to advance relationships. >> matt, a lot is being talked about the intelligence failure in israel and the lead-up to the

operation, but what about the broader strategic operations? a lot of america's energy over the last few years and in your administration has been spent trying to normalize the situation with other countries. but less has been spent on blind and palestinian grievances. was that a missed opportunity or a mistake. >> we have always made clear we continue to support two-state solution and we continue to supportmoves that will support the dignity and lives of palestinians and israelis alike. the secretary of state has made that clear as has the president of the united states. we see that the two can work together to bring increased stability and increased prosperity to the region. but to be clear, that vision for a more stable middle east has

always been rejected by terrorist groups like hamas. hamas has never been a part of the talks. they continue to be opposed to the very state of the existence of israel. while we have moved to improve the lives of the palestinian people and improve the relationship between israel and its neighbors and bringing an end to conflict in the middle east and bring in stability, we have always been aware there are terrorist groups who will continue to try to foil that. that's why we will continue to get israel the military aid, the military assistance it needs as we have done since the outset of this administration. >> some of the american commentators have expressed concerns. we had david ignatius on earlier that israel may try to overreach here and thus elevate the radical palestine can cause, the hamas wing of the palestinian cause around the middle east.

are you having interaction with israel's counterparts do what they can to limit collateral damage? so often in these situations, honestly it's the women and children who suffer in situations like this. >> it is, and we have seen women and children obviously who were the victims of these terrorist attacks. we have seen women and children kidnapped and taken hostage in gaza. we'll remain in close contact with our israeli counterparts. it is their policy to do so. but they, of course, are going to have to respond forcefully and we'll continue to respond. if you just look at these attacks in terms of the percentage of the population that was killed in israel, it's a higher percentage than americans lost in 9/11. so they're going to need to respond forcefully. it's irresponsible for them to

see thousands of hamas terrorists come across into israel and kill civilians and kidnap civilians and murder women and children. they are going to have to respond forcefully. they'll have difficult decisions to make about how to conduct their operations, and we will support them and do whatever we can to get them the aid and support that they need. >> let's get you to weigh in on the complications right now on these shores that's complicating washington's response to these terror attacks. there's, of course, no speaker of the house. congress is working on a continuing resolution. there is no confirmed ambassador to israel, and we still have a blockade on military promotions from the pentagon. >> look, honestly we would like to see all of our ambassadors, including our ambassador to israel confirmed as soon as possible. of course, we want to see military promotion -- military

officers to be allowed to go through senate confirmation, receive their promotions. the administration has been quite clear about that. we've been troubled those have been so slow to move. i would say we were able to get israel the immediate need it needs in the wake of the terrorist attack. there is no doubt as we go forward it's important that we have a partner in congress, a functioning congress in both houses of congress that can work with us to ensure that we can get israel everything it needs in the coming days and weeks. >> state didn't spokesperson matt miller. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. and joining us now from north of the gaza border is nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. raf, tell us more as to where you are and what you are seeing. >> reporter: jonathan, good morning. we are in the city of ashkelon.

this feels like an unending stream of rocket fire from gaza. rockets came down a little more than an hour ago. you can see the car behind me here is just riddled with shrapnel. i just want to walk our viewers through the scene for a second. if copley, my camera operator, will point the camera down here, this is the actual impact site. this is where the rocket went into the asphalt. what is miraculous here, guys, is this fuel tanker behind me did not explode because you can only imagine the scale of the destruction. you can see the windshield of this truck is shot everied, but the actual fuel tank itself is intact. it is underscoring one of the many, many, many questions israelis are asking themselves this morning, which is what is happening with its famed iron dome missile defense system, a system that was developed in partnership with the united states, that has been so

successful in years past, but is strugglinging under the sheer volume of rocket fire. a up canal of developments over the course of this morning. number one. the israeli military says they're once again for the first time since the surprise attack began, are in control of the israel towns and settlements across the border because for an unbelievably amount of time, hamas was holding streets and communities. israeli forces say they're back in control. there is sporadic fighting going on with individual gunmen. the other may job, major developments, israel's defense minister says he has imposed a state of siege on the gaza strip. he says no food, no fuel, no electricity is getting in. as katty mentioned earlier, they

have no say in hamas' actions and no say in the terrible attack that occurred this weekend and it's these people who will be paying the price among these hamas commanders and leaders. the death toll inside israel is now more than 700 according to the israeli government. it's more than 400 inside gaza, according to the palestinian health ministry the israeli air strikes. israeli says it's doing everything it can to be careful of the target, but civilians are caught up. i'll just close with this. everything we're seeing on the ground indicates that israel is preparing for an imminent ground defensive. we have seen column after column of israeli tanks moving toward the border. they have called up over 300,000

reservists, which is a number so vast, that you only go to that level if you're planning for a major operation given the toll it takes on the israeli economy. if israeli forces go in in large numbers, we expect that's all to rise much, much higher. >> raf, what does that look like though? if they go in and hamas is saying something like a hundred,er the speculation is dozens of israeli and frankly international. there are -- germans have hostages, americans have hostages as well. how do they go in? they call in 300 reservists. they go in on a mass everybody ground operation. >> reporter: you look at it.

this is on the one hand a national military operation designed to smash hamas's infrastructure to imflict a massive price after the surprise attack over the weekend. on the other hand, it is possibly the most complex hostage rescue operation maybe the world has ever seen. as you know, hamas has effectively an underground city of stunls and you can bet these hostages are underground. they've been spread out. hamas will do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for israel to rescue these people given that these hostages are seen as neil invaluable bargaining chips from hamas' perspective. in 2011 they freed a thousand prisoners to get back one soldier. if there are dozens, more than a hundred, israeli soldiers inside gaza, you can imagine what hamas

feels it has in terms of poker chips in terms of of a future negotiation. hamas says already this morning four israeli hostages are dead as a result of israeli air strikes on the gaza strip. that is, of course, not something nbc news can confirm independently, but it uds scores the scale of the issue here. i'll close with this p we've just come from interviewing a father. his name is yoni. his wife and daughters, age 2 and 5, are inside gaza as far as he knows. they were taken from inside the grandmother's house early saturday morning. he only knows what he saw from a video, his wife, with her arms over the shoulders of their children. if hamas were to accept any kind

of agreement where he offers himself as a prisoner to free his family, he'd do it. that's the sentiment of hundreds and hundreds of families across israel right now. >> raf sanchez, thank you very much. an awful story. a terrible situation for the israeli government and people to be in today. still ahead on "morning joe," pressure to fill the house speaker vacancy. that's building. as the crisis unfolds in israel. we'll get an update on where the power struggle stands on capitol hill when "morning joe" comes right back. s on capitol hill when "morning joe" comes right back

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we're back on "morning joe" as we continue to cover the war and violence in israel over the

weekend. we're going to bring in david. we'll start with you. i know the burning question in your mind is how could this have happened? israel has the most creative intelligence operation. what is your sense as to how they got caught so badly off guard saturday morning? >> john, i am struck as i think we all are by the scope and horror of this, listening to the israeli military spokesperson a moment ago saying every family has been touched. a spokesperson said it's the worst day in israeli history. how could that have happened? what went wrong? what was the failure of intelligence? and as i wrote in the column last night, it was simply not a failure of gathering the information but understanding the information. people have likened this terrible event to 9/11 in the

united states, the 2001 attacks by al qaeda. americans never imagined that al qaeda could seize airplanes and use them as weapons to attack buildings, and i think israelis never imagined they could use para gliders to fly into israel, could move so quickly, a thousand of them, through the fence. there was a failure of imagination in the sense and understanding. after 9/11, we went through a long investigation. it turned out that so many of the pieces of information that would have allowed you to see the attacks coming were in the system but weren't understood. i'm sure israelis are going to

be haunted by this failure, that they believed in their intelligence system as their best protection and the dome system to keep rockets from striking the israeli villagers. i think it's fair to say most israelis couldn't imagine something like this could have happened. i think the one point, the crucial point is not looking back at the intelligence factor but looking forward to make sense if this is going to become a much wider war. "the wall street journal" published an article in saying iran had assisted in planning this operation and had given the green light for this operation. if israel finds that iran was fundamentally responsible, we is run the risk of a much wider war ahead.

it's as dangerous a situation i can remember seeing in the middle east. >> that is the open question. we'll dive into iran's potential role into this in just a few minutes, but i first want to get your overall impressions of what you saw this weekend, this incredible failure to prevent this attack and give us a sense of what you see and what you think happens now. >> i agree with david. it wasn't a collection failure. i think the israelis will find when they do the archaeology, they had a lot of warning. it was more an analytical failure, mind-set failure. they dismissed the possibility, didn't take the threat seriously. it could be a defense failure as well. why is it that so many israeli forces that would be on alert against gaza and those parts of israel were probably in the west bank, and i think that will be a real political issue for this prime minister and this government simply because it

will be a question of priorities, protecting settlers. ultimately there will be commission of inquiry. this will take months. obviously you've got to deal with the immediate problem, but there will be serious issues. they want to send the message that terrorism is unacceptable. they want hamas to pay a price. all of these things they're doing militarily, but you've got all of the israeli hostages to worry about. you've got the history. israel has been in gaza. they left in 2005. it's one of the most densely populated pieces of real estate on earth. there are not a lot of options. hamas cannot be totally obliterated given its nature. what do you do? again, you want to show terrorism is unacceptable. on the other hand, you've got to think about, how many more military casualties do you want to take?

are you going to risk the support that's coalescing around israel? they have a real dilemma. >> these attacks come on the eve of benjamin netanyahu and investigations into his conduct and at a time when relations between him and president biden have been tense to say the leechlt we saw them together on the sidelines at the general assembly a few weeks ago after a possible break through. we'll dive into that. but this is a tricky moment for him and the white house. >> richard was talking about what was missed there. so joining us now from the north lawn of the white house is nbc white house correspondent gabe gutierrez. they're pointing the finger directly at iran and pushing

back some and also pushing back on the notion that's being raised by some of the republican candidates that this was financed by money that was moved from south korea to qatar as part of the hostage deal the americans got. what is the white house's latest position and thinking at the moment? >> hi, there, katty. good morning. as was just mentioned the u.s. is pushing back strongly. three u.s. officials tell nbc news so far they have not seen any evidence to corroborate "the wall street journal's" account. in fact, yesterday secretary of state anthony blinken said in an interview he had not seen any evidence iran was directly behind this attack, but he did point out that iran and hamas did have a long relationship and he also said u.s. officials were looking into part of the

motivation for this attack may have been to try to derail those talks between saudi arabia, israel, and the u.s., in normalizing relations between saudi arabia and israel. this all comes at a very difficult time as he faces multiple foreign policy challenges as well as fatigue over the war in ukraine, escalaing tensions between taiwan and china and the potential agreement that could be derailed between saudi arabia and israel. so the president has been seeing a lot of backlash from the gop candidates. they're arguing his weak leadership could have contributed to this attack over the weekend. le former president trump and desantis and nikki haley attacking president biden. saying somehow these $6 billion unfrozen five weeks ago in

exchange for five american citizens that were released, the secretary saying that not a cent of that money has gone to iran just yet and even when it does, that it has to be used for humanitarian assistance. he said that any suggestion otherwise, that that $6 billion was somehow used to finance this attack, he called that misinformation. so over the weekend president biden speaking on saturday in remarks at the white house and also speak multiple times with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the assets are now heading into the eastern mediterranean to try to act as a deterrent as the white house tries to scramble to contain this attack and prevent it from becoming a multi-faceted, multi-front regional conflict in the middle east. katty? >> we should underscore, gabe, not a dime of that money has

beentouched. it's still sitting in a doha bank. we'll see if that changes. nbc news senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez, thank you. as gabe mentioned, this comes at a moment when there is fatigue potentially with the war in ukraine. it comes when the u u.s. does not have a confirmed ambassador to israel and it comes with no speaker in the house. we'll get into how the republican-led house is handling the crisis when we come right back. isis when we come right back so many all star options. it's just for subway mvps right? you catch on quick herbert. join now and get 50% off any footlong. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed.

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by this time yesterday i was jogging be behind me in the old city when i got a call from my office to get back to the hotel as quickly as i could. when i got back to the hotel, i got with others to the bomb

shelter or under the stairwell. frightened faces, many americans. there was a sense of fear and worry and a knowledge to many of us that there are horrific things going on around the country at that time. we who believe in peace and freedom and human rights, for palestinians, for israelis, for all human kind must reject those who use terror as their weapon. >> senator cory booker of new jersey with that post on social media about the attacks. he was in israel ahead of a summit on the abraham accords. he's back in the u.s. safely now. dan goldman was also in israel for a bah mitzvah. he had to shelter in place but has safely returned home. richard haass, let's talk about two things. first we mentioned before the break about the precarious

moment for prime minister netanyahu with the attacks. tell us what his immediate and long-term future looks like and more interestingly the war itself. does this have a chance to spiral into other events with a number of other nations being involved? >> it could stay where it is if hamas's goal was only it can protect the interests as they see it. it could stay where it is. i think given the military and the dynamics set in place, the big question is what is his motive as well as hamas. you know, hundreds of thousands of missiles and rockets could go into israel. also the question does it spread to the west bank, jerusalem, all of the actions that could be taken against iran. this could spread in all sorts

of ways. the thing to keep the biggest eye on is what happens. does hezbollah and others decide to enter the fray. >> so, katty, a number of eyes on the report we just mentioned, whether iran made a direct role in this. there's been some pushback. certainly if it comes out that iran was promoting this, i imagine israel will take some significant steps in return. >> that's all happening now behind the scenes with the intelligence investigation clearly looking at what happened and what was missed. it's an urgent and specific calculation, what to do. there are americans there, germans, brazilians, and mexicans reportedly there as well. what happens to them as we understand it in tunnels underneath gaza? if you were sitting in tel aviv

or jerusalem at the moment trying to figure out what your options are if you're the idf or moscow or whatever the security forces are, what are the options for the israelis? their practice in the past has been to go in hard on gaza, and we've seen some of that, but it must be complicated with some of the israelis held there. >> i think it's a military planner's night mair. the typical israeli response would have been to go in hard and in the immediate aftermath, the expectation is there would be a reinvasion of gaza. netanyahu's words seem to imply that as we learn how many hostages have been taken, kept hidden away inside gaza. the problems with mounting that kind of invasion became more clear. these hostages will be human

shields in a devastatingly horrible way. it will take extraordinary measures to get them out. planning the operation in a way that preserves to the extent possible israeli life but also re-establishes deterrents, let's remember that israel's deterrence, israel's toobt scare people into not doing extraordinary attacks like this failed. so they've got to somehow re-establish that. and i think finally the question is do they want to reconquer gaza? do they want to administer that, this really dreadful difficult small quarter. it's like an overgrown refugee camp when i've visited it in the past. do they want to take it over again or hold back? i'm sure they're talking to the

jordanians, egypt chance, other arab countries. one more thing, something important was over the horizon. that would be a transforming event. it would effectively signal the end of the israeli conflict. i think the iranians were frightened about it. it would overturn their basic order and principle for their own foreign policy. they'd have every reason to try to derail that. will the u.s. and israel push forward with that? the saudi support was not all that. will they get the saudis to speak up and condemn the invasion? then you would see a positive prospect for israel to have partners to deal with this nightmare from hamas, to deal with gaza going forward torque re-establish some kind of palestinian authority that's not based in hostage taking and terrorist attacks.

>> you have been right about the intelligence failures, david. at the end of your piece, you wrote this, we 140u8d remember the other big lesson of that ka as the trophy other than our failure to see it coming. the united states overreacted. it simply didn't take revenge. it sought to remake the middle ieft. is there that risk with israel as well? >> i hope hope that the israeli thinking about that. i watched when about i was a young correspondent the israelis overreact in what many israelis now would say was an unwise invasion of lebanon torsion go after the strongholds. that operation was very

difficult. many israelis say it left the country weaker than before. i think that's the kind of parallel that military planners should be thinking about. obviously the danger is moving into a much wider war that involves iran directly, involves hesitate bow lae, lebanon, would involve syria. isle real is surrounded. a factor i'm very curious about is whether china, which has been brokering some kind of de-escalation between saudi arabia and iran will be brought into the diplomatic part of this to try to stabilize things, to make contact with iran through iran -- make contact with others in the arab world. we don't know what's ahead. all we know is it's really darjs. >> coming up, the ranking member of the house foreign affairs committee is standing by. congressman gregory meeks joins the conversation. that's straight ahead on

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the house gop will hold a meeting later today. after kevin mccarthy was ousted from that post last week. current will i the number two republican in the house, steve scalise, is in a two-way race with jim jordan a leader of the party's conservative wing as they vie to lead the chamber. this evening the republican conference will meet behind closed doo amembers-only discussion. according to the invitation, phone abouts are to be checked at the door and staff members are not allowed in the gaering. tomorrow the conference will hold a candidate forum. onednesday the conference plans to an internal election for speaker, which could be followed by a potentia

few people i spoke to think this calendar is going to stick and we'll get a speaker as soon as wednesday. someone who's been following this so closely is ali vitali. walk us through the next couple of days and the complications by the war in israel. >> i'm with you, jonathan. we're not going to see this come to a full consensus on wednesday. that's a problem on a few fronts. the first front is it help for the house to have a speaker. the current situation in israel is a reminder that having a speaker pro tempore, which is what the house has ride now in patrick mchenry means he's pretty powerless in bringing thing to the floor. whether that's resolutions about hamas, that they say they're working on right now or more serious things like how do you get aid to the countries and our

allies. all of that will be in the mix as our lawmakers come back to town this week. i'm not so sure it shakes things loose for republicans who have a chance at choosing the next leader of their party in the house. yes, the race winnowed technically from three to two, kevin hearn, republican from oklahoma, dropped out in recent days, i have a hard time seeing especially jim jordan. although he has the endorsement of donald trump, i'm not really of the mind-set that trump moves votes on capitol hill. but i have a heart time seeing moderate republicans in top-ten districts, like my home district in new york, it's going to be hard to get behind a fire brand like jim jordan and then go home in their district and play defense against those attack ads. i think it's going to make it all hard for republicans to get into a room on wednesday and come to a consensus.

maybe some of the republicans who came on the sunday shows said it's going to be an easy time, maybe they're right. but if there's anything we've seen on capitol hill lately, nothing is easy, everything is chaos, and i don't expect this week to be any different. >> and in a crisis, it would be a good moment to have leadership in congress and leadership in the military as well, right? a good moment to have that. republican senator tommy tuberville of alabama,e' standing firm on his months' blockade on military promotions. tuberville's blockadeas put a hold on at least 300 military nomineesncluding top forces would would command forces in the middle east. including admiral john wickoff who is slated for the middle east o nal forces. the current vice admiral brad cooper is supposed to be promoted to deputy commander of u.s. sent krom. which overseas troops and operations in the middle east

region but that promotion is also being held up by tuberville. in a statement, tuberville's office reaffirmed his stance and said that democrats could call each of the hundreds of nominations and individual votes. that protest could take hundreds of hours, however. the republican senator has maintained the promotion's blockade to protestet defense department's policy that gives time off and reimbursements for service members and their family members seeking abortions out of state. it does seem like an extraordinary time for americans, not to have the people in place, that it needs in centcom, ali, is there anybody from the leadership side that could put pressure on senator tuberville, say, listen, okay, we get the stance. but right now, u.s. forces are in a position where they could materially aid our key ally in

the region, israel, and we need those positions in post? >> so of course, the landscape has changed over the course of the last two or three days, katty. but it does mean he does not take it and continues to hold his ground here. we did see the confirmation of three key postings. that was something that senator chuck schumer did a few weeks ago. but as you mentioned it would take hours to go through each of these positions one by one and confirm them. the national security concerns here are not new from the moment that tuberville began the blockade and the promotions started piling up, they were clear, this will endanger national security. that will not change tuberville's mind. it's going to be interesting to see whether or not israel now being a factor implement indicates or changes anything in the mind of the senator.

it's important to note, we're not going to see senators back this week. they're out of town, on recess, some of them on code ls across the country, across the world. they're still getting briefed, but in terms of us able to press senator tuberville. that's not something we'll see. and then how does this impact impression around ukraine aid, especially since republicans are reticent to give aid there. >> we'll dive into that complication in a little while. nbc news correspondent ali vitali, thank you. busy few days ahead for you. we appreciate it. coming up, we'll go live to tel aviv to speak to israel's former dr to the u.n., danny danon. that conversation is next on "morning joe." ng joe."

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♪♪ the gore and the carnage and the inhumane activity in hamas,

at least starting to unfold because we're now speaking to the families, understand they went through tragic, tragic events. tragic, tragic events. >> that was international spokesperson for israel's defense forces, lieutenant colonel richard hecht who was with us earlier this morning. he says israeli forces are moving into the area and working to stabilize communities hit by hamas militants over the past two days. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." i'm jonathan lemire alongside bbc's katty kay, joe and mika will be back tomorrow morning. a lot of fast-moving developments? >> yeah, things have changed a lot. we've had the seizure of gaza and the soldiers called up. it's clear against mass militants ordering a total

blockade, more than 1200 people, a recap of number killed since saturday. that's includes 700 people in israel and maybe 500 more deaths in gaza. state department spokesman matt miller confirmed on our show just in the last hour that nine americans are also among the dead. it's believed hundreds of other israelis are being held in gaza. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is on the ground. he has this report for us. >> reporter: israel's payback is under way, with the army carrying out air strikes across the gaza strip this morning. targeting hamas infrastructure and smuggling tunnels but israeli reprisals are restrained because hamas is holding dozens of israeli hostages hidden deep inside of gaza. israel didn't anticipate hamas had this capacity and israel's intelligence network missed the

sign it was coming. >> we're going to jump into that package because richard engel is with us now. richard, you're there at the border, what's happening? >> reporter: all right, mika, i can tell you right now, it's the town of sderot and a lot of fire here. we believe it's mortar fire. some of them from rockets, they've been coming in quite close. that is why we're on the ground right now. this is still considered a very active combat zone even though we're inside israeli territory, and it's not just the incoming rockets and mortars, there are also reports from israeli officials of new infiltrations of hamas sending more fighters through breaches in the border fence. according to a senior israeli official, there are about 30 different holes, breaches, in that border perimeter. and most of them have been plugged up. around 90% of them have been plugged up. but 10% remain -- they're trying

to secure those. but remain open. so this is still an active situation here. most of the residents in this area have been cleared out. and the israelis are trying to move people away from border towns and communities and to try and also look for hamas fighters because they believe that cells, sleeper cells, or other fighters, have infiltrated that are still in the area, potentially, hiding in some of the buildings. and now, maybe it seems like that big barrage that we just experienced has passed. they come in waves. but this one was right -- practically right on top of us right here in sderot. >> richard, if any moment you or your crew need to move to get to safety, please do so. if you can speak to us, and continue to speak to us, just to be clear, the mortar fire that you're hearing is not just israelis attacking gaza.

there are still rockets coming out of gaza into israel, is that right? >> reporter: oh, 100% there are rockets coming out of gaza and mortars are very close to the gaza strip. in fact, the warning time, you don't always get a warning, israel has sophisticated defense and air defense warning systems from gaza is only about 20 seconds. sometimes, with the small munitions like the mortars, you don't get a warning. we didn't hear a warning for very long before this latest barrage happened. so, to answer your question, yes, there are still rockets and mortars coming out of gaza. the israelis are bombing inside gaza. we've seen and heard israeli jets and drones flying overhead. and the infiltrationses are still under way. >> in the past hour, there are reports from the idf, the israeli defense forces, that they have managed to secure that border area. it looks like from what you're

saying that's not the case. we also heard that 300,000 reservists are being called up. have you seen, richard, any signs yet where you are, of those reservists planning to mount any kind of land invasion into gaza? >> reporter: well, it is difficult to know what they are preparing to do. but we have seen a buildup of forces here. we've seen tanks. we've seen armored personnel carriers. we've seen medical vehicles. we've seen a whole host of different armored vehicles moving into this area with a full complement of soldiers. it's hard to know if they're preparing for some sort of assault. i don't think the number of troops that we've seen indicates that they're getting ready for any land incursion. and the land incursion at this stage would be enormously difficult because there are still so many israeli hostages inside. >> richard, it's jonathan, please move to be safe.

what's the latest on in infiltration of forces that you have on the ground there? >> reporter: there's a relatively small incursion from lebanon. and palestinian militants inside lebanon, who tried to infiltrate the border. so, not the same kind of scale of activity that we're seeing down here. and i was told, by the way, and i hadn't heard this number before, that on the initial -- on the day of the initial assault, on that saturday morning, there were nearly 1,000 hamas militants who penetrated israeli defenses, by land, most of them just driving through holes that they exploded in the border fence. but some of them also crossing on ships, on boats through the mediterranean. and then flying in paragliders. >> and, richard, in the hours

before this scary moment, officials that you've been speaking, to how much concern do they have that indeed the front for this violence may grow and spread? >> reporter: well, the expectation here is that this will grow. the expectation is that this is just the early stages of this fight, and that the israelis are somewhat constrained because of all of the hostages that are inside. just overnight, hamas said in a statement that israeli fire into gaza killed four of what hamas is calling prisoners inside the gaza strip. they didn't offer any evidence to prove that. they didn't describe the nationalities or identities. but if the israelis -- and there are diplomatic efforts in touch with arab officials in the region outside of israel, there are active negotiations under way to get the hostages out. but, yes, the expectation is this is going to escalate, potentially from the north.

or potentially inside gazaful the efforts to get the hostages are successful or fail. it does not seem like israel can tolerate this kind of situation for very long. and we'll act further. according to a senior israeli official i spoke to a short while ago, the mission now, that israel says it's war footing. what does that mean? you're always on war footing, what is different now that you've declared a state of war? and he said that now the mission is to destroy hamas. to eliminate the group. and the only way to do that is with a huge operation inside of the gaza strip. because hamas has a base of support there, it has infrastructure there. and, frankly, after all that we've seen, and all of the videos coming out from hamas, the group's popularity in fact inside gaza may be spiking. >> live for us from israel, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel.

thank you. most importantly, be safe. joining us now live from tel aviv is the former israeli ambassador to the united nations, danny danon. he's also a member of israel's knesset and is on its foreign affairs and security committees. mr. ambassador, thank you for joining us this morning. if you will, please, just put in perspective what these last few days have been like. >> good morning, jonathan. they've been horrible two days for us in israel. we are still counting the deaths. we don't know the exact number, but it's more than 700, you know, it's very hard to imagine, that we're talking about two days in the world, and already 700 israelis are dead. the sad part, most of them are not soldiers. most of them are civilians, teenagers, taking part in a celebration, happening for peace in the south. and massacred vigorously by the

hamas, barbaric terrorists, beyond imagination what we're seeing in the pictures and film. what we're now, we're collecting the pain and bodies and telling the families of what happened. we're calling the troops and we're get the ready, we're getting ready to fight back. we will fight back, and we will prevail. it will not be easy, but we're committed to handing down the hamas leadership, and they will pay for the barbaric acts against israel. >> tell us what that means, sir. the defense ministry said it's a total siege of gaza, cutting it off from the rest of the world. and preparations under way seemingly for a ground assault. tell us what the next few days are going to look like? >> so, we are very clear about our goals. and we're telling the people of gaza that we don't want to hurt the civilians.

so they will have to move out from the area where the hamas is preparing the bunker, the headquarters. they should move out from the region because we will get there. we will bomb those areas. we will get to the leadership of the hamas. and it's not going to look nice. at the same time, we have to realize that dozens including americans were kidnapped brutally from their homes and dragged into gaza. we're talking about children, families, elderly person, even a holocaust survive, age 86, was grabbed by the terrorists into gaza. so, that's an issue we have to deal with but now, we're united. we put away all the differences and we're ready to fight back. >> mr. danon, the reuters news agency is reporting there's some negotiations to have some kind of hostage for prisoner swap, women and children held in gaza,

in change for women and children held in israeli prisons. you can confirm if those negotiations are taking place? >> no way, i cannot confirm that. we do know that the international players are trying to mediate. but as we speak, we don't know about any concrete efforts. and as i mentioned earlier, now, we're not at the point of negotiating. we're in the process of fighting back. we are -- as we speak, there are still a few militants inside not winning. so we're now clearing the area, chasing down those terrorists and preparing ourselves for the next move. >> and if you go into gaza and destroy hamas where the mission is stated, what do you do then? do you destroy hamas? there must be some conversations about what happens afterwards, about the long term, to make israel's peace more sustainable

long term? >> that is correct. we have intention to move gaza out, to stay in gaza. unfortunately, when you fight evil, you have to fight for your life. when the u.s. fought al qaeda after 9/11, you went all the way. same with isis, just to give you the numbers, 9/11 was a huge tragedy for the american people. but compared to our population of 9 people in israel. imagine 40,000 americans would have been killed in 9/11, that's what happened to us. 1,000 israelis were massacred in one day. so, it's a major issue for us. so, now, we don't really think about the day after. who will actually run gaza. who will govern gaza. we're focusing on eradicating hamas, that's the goal and we are determined to achieve it. >> former ambassador to the united nations, danny danon, thank you so much for joining us this morning. with us now, the ceo of the

anti-defamation league, jonathan blatt and the host of nbc's policy nation reverend sharpton. welcome, gentlemen. tell us, if you will, just what the last few days have been like for you. and why it's so important that you're hearing today with the reverend sharpton. >> well, so i will be honest, maybe a little more vulnerable than i have been, this is one of the hardest days of my adult life. i don't ever remember a moment like this. i have family in israel right now under siege, being deployed to the front lines. i have staff who can't locate their family. i have friends who are gone. and i think ambassador danon put it well in the context that americans can understand, 9/11, the evil that was perpetrated here. but the scale, jonathan, the right comparison is nagasaki.

this was like an atomic bomb. and as 40,000 people are killed in japan, when they dropped that bomb in nagasaki, so, too, were the hundreds and hundreds upon hundreds of people who were killed in israel. so, while i am sad and trying to corner i'll be honest, i am angry. i am angry with the world that allowed the dehumanization of israelis and sanitized the terrorism of hamas. i must say, i love this show, and i love this network. but i've got to ask, who's writing the scripts? hamas, the people who did this, they are not fighters, jonathan. they are not militants. i'm looking right at the camera, they are terrorists. it is a barbarian who rapes and brutalizes women. who kills children in front of their parents. and then brings them over to

gaza. who literally -- we've heard all of these reports. and we know these aren't just reports. these were filmed gleefully by the barbarians who committed these grotesque crimes. they filmed, for example, an elderly woman in her home in one of these towns, they burned her alive in her house because she was too infirmed to take out. parading woman, bleeding from the crotch because they were raped while people hoot and hauler and cheer. so while they say this is an escalation, it was bound to happen, i'm sorry, this was a massacre that was planned. it was destined to happen. it is not normal to shoot teenagers in the back, hundreds of them. i just think, guys, get the

story right. all of these pictures of like, you know, missiles or the rubble in gaza, please talk to the israeli mothers and fathers. who lost their children, talk to the grandchildren whose grandparents were seized as hostages. and please stop calling this a retaliation. this is a defensive measure against an organization that is committed to one thing. killing jews. not a peaceful resolution of a conflict. but murdering jews. and if you're wondering if i'm exaggerating, please, i beg of you everyone watching, everyone at this necessary work. of more than 200 bodies found at that music festival, many of them young people, teenagers. >> many of them teenagers at a peace festival. when i saw some of their footage

saturday morning, i called jonathan, i called jonathan, because, first of all, he and adl and other groups had co-haired the march on washington with us in august. and we said we wanted to fight together hate crimes. we met with the president, biden and vice president harris. i immediately thought about since that march jonathan and i got on a plane and went to florida, jacksonville, where a black woman was one killed in a hate crime. so while we're dealing with hate and violence, we've got to do it on all sides. you cannot say stand with me, but i'm not going to stand with you. and then when i see people marching in midtown manhattan with nazi signs, jews today,

blacks tomorrow. hitler would have killed all of us. >> that's right. >> for them to come with nazi signs and they not be denounced, you're not talking de-escalation. you're sending a clear sign, which is why many of the national networks sign with us, the national naacp, all of them, denouncing this violence. and i must also say this, jonathan, and i told those jonathan greenblatt, 2001, i called mark zuckerberg who used to own the place where you used to work who was then the head of the conference of jewish presidents. i said this is outrageous. i had members of my organization's parents killed in the world trade building. these are civilians. this had nothing to do with differences in policy. i said i want to go to israel

and show, now i understand what it means about civilians being killed. he arranged this, sharon perez asked me in the meeting what am i going to see arafat. arafat was talking about how bin laden was wrong what he did on 9/11. when i look at what happened yesterday and saturday and then what arafat talked about, what are you dealing with when you indiscriminately kill civilians, we're talking about people without a conscience. we're talking about elders in their home. >> to be clear, a person could levy criticisms on the current israeli government but denounce acts of terrorism. jonathan, put this in context for us, that this violence comes amid -- we've seen, you've been

on the show so many times, the surge of anti-semitism, both at home and abroad. >> there's a reason that jewish people are feeling this around the world, anti-semitism has reached an all-time high since we've been tracking it 45 years. synagogues, peoples' offices, homes, supermarket overnight was vandalized. jews are feeling a pressure they haven't seen before in times square, south florida, after hamas previously lodged missiles at israel. so, the thing that's so challenging and vexing about this, people are saying, well, could this escalate into a wider war? it is a wider war, this is from al qaeda to isis to hamas. this is what islamic radicals and jihadism looks like.

again, it doesn't seek a peaceful resolution of a conflict. this was not some inevitable outcome. this was a preplanned massacre. and how do they send thousands of missiles into israel, because they were supplied by iran. and we'll ask those questions. we'll wonder about how that happened -- i saw david ignatius whose journalism i so deeply respect in this reporting i appreciate, they said they'll look at this as intelligence failure, military failure. jonathan, this was the west failure. this was our failure for decades to allow iran and its proxies to dehumanize zionists and jews to allow people on college campuses on harvard to allow anti-zionism flourish. we saw this in the '30s. legitimate professors, students who came to believe the poison of the third reich. who came to believe in the wake of world war i, the jews had

literally abandoned germany. it's the jews who cause their own miss for the tune is what hitler said. and jonathan is saying, israel brought this on, blaming the victim, while we're still collecting the bodies is as disgraceful and as dishonorable thing as i can ever imagine. the last thing i'll say, and i'm so sorry, but i don't ever remember feeling like this before, it's that the idea, the notion, that somehow this peace -- res rapprochement of saudi arabia, they were trying to disrupt it i think there's some truth to that. but let's be clear that was a path to peace. working out a deal that could have given the palestinians and the israelis the confidence to make a deal with the palestinians. trough reinforces, terror reinforces the conflict, because that's what these barbarians

want. got to stand up against them every time. >> katty kay. >> jonathan, there are reports coming out this operation may have been two years in the planning. there's a story this morning that hamas had even built a mock-up of israeli settlement and using it to train. the level of sophistication, the planning seems to be extraordinary. what does this do to israeli sense of security. because they have, over the last few years, i think, israelis have developed a sense of believing between the mosat and idea and security forces they are well protected, they had a source they were relying on to know what's happening in the region. do you think this disrupts that sense of security in their own forces? >> well, a few things. number one, this didn't start a few years ago, katty, it started in 1979 with the islamic revolution in iran. that destroyed israel. that was one of khamenei's

precepts. after egypt, the islamic revolution was founded in part to reclaim all of the historic palestine. it started in 1979. hamas is iran, let's get that right. number two, if they're training it wasn't a mock israeli settlement, katty, it was an israeli town, where boys and girls played in playgrounds. where mothers and daughters brought their children to school. where people lived and work. it was a town, not a settlement. because to hamas, all of israel is a settlement, okay? thirdly, will this heard israeli sense, if you will, of security? israel is a country like any high. you can only build walls none of them will be impregnable. and i will tell you this, the receipt solve and strength of israel and the jewish people, gaza is not now under siege. israel has been under siege for

75 years. some would say the jewish people for 2,000, our resolve unbreakable. and we will face this down, the israelis will face this down with the ferocity that this situation merits. >> ceo of the anti-defamation league, jonathan greenblatt, a difficult day. rev, stay with us, please. coming you here on "morning joe," the incredible moment captured on camera a short while ago as chief correspondent richard engel was playing down a video. we'll have that as they came under fire. >> i congressman gregory meeks will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe" and we'll be right back. ight ba. . -superbowl mvps really do get all the perks? i'm talking about subway mvp. it's a way bigger deal. do you get a trophy for that? i wish. get rewarded like an mvp. join now and get 50% any footlong.

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appropriately so, there are a few moments of hope, this was at issue over the weekend. they put up the colors of the israeli flag, remarkable image. it does show, as much as challenges exist, some progress made over the last century. >> while that's the 1930s. that's the gate, of course, that was hung with nazi flags when hitler came to power. over the course of this weekend replaced. and now there it is, the israeli flag, and chancellor schultz, olaf scholz tweeting out he stands in solidarity with the israelis, as you say, quite a great simple of the world turning to israel at this moment. >> an extraordinary image to be sure. we now want to turn to that incredible heart-pounding moment with our very own nbc news team with chief foreign correspondent richard engel reporting. he was live near the border just

moments ago. our cameras were rolling and captured the moment members of the crew ran for cover as they came under mortar fire. >> stay down, stay down. >> they are mortar, they coming in very close. okay.

>> reporter: keep rolling. we're going to wait for a moment here. mika -- guys, do you guys hear me? >> richard and the team are safe. i understand they are safe. he was able to join us a few minutes after this occurred. we will keep checking in on him and the crew throughout the day. tough there. we're so glad he's all right. joining us ranking member of the house foreign affairs committee, democratic member gregory meeks from new york. thank you for joining us. we've been talking for a number of hours now about this precarious moment, that one made much more complicated in the house of representatives because you don't currently have a

speaker. walk us through what is happening in light of that in the lower chamber. >> well, we're having constant dialogue and conversation. i reached out immediately upon the attack to my colleague mike mccall to say we've got to do something, and we've got to do it collectively. though, we don't have the power to put something on the floor, we can put a resolution collectively together to condemn this heinous, criminal and inhuman main act of hamas. we also are talking about, talking with the administration, to let them know that we are unequivocally with the president of the united states. and will stand by again, israel, everything it needs and support them in every which way. now, it's complicated in that if the republicans don't have a speaker by the end of this week, we've got to figure something out. but of course, the government, the administration has the

resources now and the authority to give israel what it needs now. but if you're talking about a month down the road, they will need additional resources. and that will take congress to make sure that it approves it. and so, we need to look and we're making preparations and talking about what may have to take place down the road. but right now, i think that we're in a position to do what we have to do to make sure that we stand in support of the state of israel. >> when you say that if the republicans can't elect a speaker by week's end, there's a lot of chatter that may not happen. you say something else may have to get done. what could that mean? >> well it means we've got to talk and try to figure out how we can put something in place where we can move to do resolutions and do and approve weapons sale. we have to make sure we figure that out. right now, based upon the

constitution of the united states, mchenry does not have that power. so there's dialogue to see how we move forward thereafter, then has to be an agreement, i would believe with either jeffries or mchenry to figure out how to move this forward. >> congressman, there have been strong statements that have come from you and speaker, or leader jeffries. and others from the congressional black caucus denouncing the violence. and there has been involvement from you and others from this whole idea of israel and saudi normalizing relations which jonathan greenblatt said he thought part of this happened directly trying to stabilize that. talk about there's always been a history of people like you and others trying to deal with this question of dealing with a two-state solution, people forget that ralph bunch, the

first black american who won the nobel peace prize was the mediator in terms of palestine and israel. andrew young, who was a congressman, had to leave the u.n. because he tried to do it. jesse jackson went there. in fact, he was 82, and he told me to give you his birthday gift from you. anyway, the history of all of us dealing with all of this is now upon members of the caucus and members in the congress, of how we stand against terrorism. but at the same time, come with a solution. >> so, look, this is why i was and am a strong supporter of the abraham accord. what the essence of this is, hamas, and what enabled them to be is they do not want a state of israel. you can't negotiate, you can't expect peace if one side is saying you should not exist. so hamas is not all of the

palestinian people. and you can't get the peace with them which is aggregate. they had been to see if in fact we do get to a peace agreement, the abraham accords were things that i thought and many of us in the congressional black caucus, why we support it is because you have other states, arab states, that were for the first time acknowledge israel's right to exist. so, once you start acknowledging israel's right to exist, then you start talking about how you can have a true peace in the middle east. but if you're not acknowledging one's right to exist, then you really can't have peace. peace has to be negotiated two ways. so one side says you don't exist, how are you going to negotiate with them, so that you can have peace. and so one of the things that we've been talking about and trying to and hoping, because on the west bank, you see -- and i know that secretary blinken has had conversations with

mr. abbas, to try to make that the west bank was not like the gulf, not like the -- >> gaza. >> not like gaza. and so this is the kind of negotiation that's still taking place. and that's why also you hear the united states and israeli officials say to palestinians in the gaza who are not part of hamas, get out. because they are, you know, what hamas is doing, they're not good for the palestinian people. because palestinians in gaza who did not have anything to do with these, were also suffering as a result of. so this is and we still believe very strongly that we need to keep our eyes on the prize in gaza, once this starts moving, that we got to keep continuing to negotiate with saudi arabia and with others that are part of the abraham accord to recognize the state of israel.

and continue to push that forward. and get rid of those who say that israel did not have the right to exist. >> let's just repeat, the timetables of elected new house speaker republicans return tomorrow allegedly to have a new speaker that could happen to complicate the long term to the list. ranking member gregory meekses of new york, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you for having me. up next on "morning joe," the pressure to fill a vacancy is building as the crisis in israel unforwards. democrats are expressing concerns that united states does not have a sitting ambassador to israel amid this growing conflict. and also ahead, israeli ambassador to the u.s. michael herzog will join the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back. ck about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start.

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♪♪ a beautiful shot of the u.s. capitol on this monday morning.

it seems a little less beautiful and cheerful, house gop will hold a meeting kicking off a week of jockeying among republicans interested in becoming the next house speaker after kevin mccarthy was ousted from the position last week. currently the number two house republican, steve scalise is locked in a two-man race with jim jordan, a leader into the impeachment inquiry of president biden. this evening, the republican congress will meet behind closed doors for a members only discussion. according to the invitation, phones will have to be checked at the door. and staff members are not allowed in the meeting along with members. tomorrow, candidates will hold a candidate forum. and then on wednesday, the conference plans to hold an internal election for speak which could be followed by a potential house vote. a lot of people i've spoken to expect that timetable to slip just a bit.

joining us professor of history heather cox washington. her "letters from americans" reaches over 2 million viewers a day. and new book "democracy awakening on the state of america." heather, this is a good time for your book to come out as we look at what's happening on capitol hill, it doesn't look like a very stable robust democracy that america has at the moment. >> it does not. and this is a moment that the chaos enveloping the house of representatives really matters. it's unprecedented. and it's really making life quite difficult to try to figure out how to deal with international affairs right now. >> you look in your book at the chaos, the fragility of democracy at the moment and the politics over the last four or five years but you go back decades and saying the roots of this have been around a long time. explain the history of what got us to where we are today. >> well, real question is how

does a democracy give up its right for people to have a say in their government and switch to authoritarianism, one it to destabilize government and taking over the crucial knowns of democracy and hurting the canons of the evolution of democracy. and while the history is interesting at this particular moment when you look at the fact that the republicans in the house of representatives have thrown out their own speaker for the first time in u.s. history and are currently deciding between somebody who has compared himself to a ku klux klan leader without the baggage and one who was overing the lawful results of a presidential election. you're looking at what people have called chaos caucus. or republicans at this point really tearing away at our institutions. and you can see the results of that, for example, in the fact we don't have an ambassador to israel.

to a number of middle east countries or a number of countries around the world. and if in fact we are going to have international and domestic institutions that protect the rights of political minorities and the rights to have a say in our government, we need to clean up our own house in a hurry. >> heather, talk about how a lot of the history of the country has always had those that didn't want a central democratic elected government, civil war, with the confederates wanting to move off states rights movement. and here we are, again, seeing factions that always want to disrupt those that want a central government that will protect the rights of everyone, that is democratically elected. talk about how the kind of parallel track they take that really lead towards some ultimately ugly ends of citizens not being protected because it's

about which side you're in, or in some cases which state you're in, according to where you are in history. >> that's a really important point, and that is that the federal government has historically been used to make sure that civil rights are protected win the states. and people who don't want those rights in the states and don't want business regulation at the national level or the protection of a basic social net or the promotion of infrastructure tend to center their power in the states. because states are much easier to control than the federal government is because there's so many different voices in the federal government. so, for example, if you look at where we are right now, since 2010 and what was known aspiration red neck the attempt of the republican party to take over certain legislatures and create supermajorities so their power could not be challenged. we're looking into the 2024 election and a number of republican nominated states that

have in fact sewn up their electoral systems and sewn up systems that try to challenge wisconsin and get rid of somebody who was elected by more than 10% of the people out of the fear that she would engineer mass state. and you see what it means to decentralize the country because we're a country of state fiefdoms. those are taken over easily with political minorities, either ones with great money or those dominated by religious groups or racial groups, other ways in which they want a minority to control the majority. and we're seeing it now, the same kind of decentralization we saw in the in the 1850s and in the 1890s and to some degree as well in the 1920s. >> the book is "democracy awakening." historian heather cox richardson, perfect timing for this book. thank you so much for joining

us. just ahead, we'll shift back to the war in israel. the ambassador joins us on the efforts to free hostages taken by hamas. "morning joe" is coming right back. amas "morning joe" is coming right back my mental health was much better. but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. #1-prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults that's always one pill, once daily. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood,

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welcome back to "morning joe." the united states currently has no permanent ambassador to israel. senate democrats are now calling for a quick confirmation of jack lew who was nominated for the post back in early september. democrats can move nominees, like lew uniterally in the senate but republicans can delay confirmation if they choose.

lew received bipartisan support as treasury secretary in the obama administration a decade ago. joining us now is the israeli ambassador to the united states, michael herzog. i know this has been a difficult few days, if we could start, please, by you giving us an update on your government's assessment of the number of hostages currently held by hamas and efforts, any sort of negotiations that may be taking place to get them home. >> as you know, we're in a sad day of war, a war wages on the street of israel by hamas terrorist organization, a u.s. designated terrorist organization. they fired to date over 4,000 rockets on israeli civilian populated areas, they infiltrated, reached the border fence, infiltrated our border towns and villages. they massacred hundreds of people. right now the unofficial numbers

are 800, but we believe the numbers may be higher. we have thousands of injured. there was a musical festival near the border and we counted 250 casualties including women, children and families. they took hostages. we're still figuring out the exact number including americans, but we don't know the exact numbers, and we're trying to figure it out. we're in close touch with the u.s. government about this issue. we call on the free world to make unequivocal demand on hamas to release all hostages unconditionally. and we call on all those that support hamas to make that demand, unconditional demand to hamas to free all the hostages. >> mr. ambassador, there's been media reporting that there's some evidence that iran may have

played a role in these attacks. what does the israeli government believe? >> we are in the process of assessing the exact iranian role. it is no secret that iran and hamas are very close allies. iran has been providing hamas with material support, significant funding, tens of millions of dollars every year. they've been guiding them, training them, sending military equipment to them. they are part of the same coalition, the same axis which they call the axis of resistance. of course, they mean resistance to the very existence of the state of israel. so we believe that iran is probably playing a role behind the scene. we also see, as we speak, some tensions on the border between

israel and lebanon. we are provoked there by other iranian proxies. there was a situation of terrorists into israeli territory and they were killed, and there was firing of mortars. i take this opportunity to send a very clear message to iranian proxies to not interfere in this war, because they will pay a price. >> ambassador, there are a lot of questions about your future relationship with palestinians about the intelligence failures that allowed this to happen, but there's an immediate and pressing concern, and that's what to do about hostages currently being held in gaza. what are the options for israel? >> i think it's too early to talk about negotiations. as i said, we are assessing the situation. first of all, we want to get the clear picture of how many people, who exactly they are, their nationalities and

additional details. as i said, we're in close contact with the u.s. government about these issues, and i think -- i don't want to elaborate beyond that. >> the israeli ambassador to the united states, michael herzog, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you very much. that does it for us this morning. joe, mika and willie will be back tomorrow morning for another "morning joe." jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage in just two minutes. ic coverage in just two minutes if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪

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ahead this hour, our special coverage, israel launches a full-siege assault on hamas, retaliating for the devastating attack on its country. israel now pounding gaza with air strikes. active fighting continuing on the ground as defense forces battle militants still trying to get over israel's border.

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