one of the things that was on the table as the united states was trying to broker normalization between saudi and israel was concessions on israel's part towards the palestinian people. that is likely off the table at this point given that israel is now going to have to go the other route and attack gaza. it will be interesting to see how saudi arabia's leadership responds to that. >> thank you very much for being with us this morning. appreciate it. that wraps up the hour for me. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with our special coverage of the war in israel right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," southern israel under renewed attack today. hamas firing rockets from gaza into ashkelon. >> in the last couple of minutes, we have seen dozens,

maybe more than dozens of rockets fired at this city as hamas said would happen. so far it seems the israeli missile defense systems have been able to contain this attack, at least as far as we can report from what we are seeing. >> richard engel on the front lines. this as the u.s. officials describe the terrorist group's tactics against israelis and american citizens as i.s.i.s. level savagery. >> she was terrified. she was saying, mommy, we are trying to get out of here, but i'm bleeding. we were shot. everybody here was shot. she said, mommy, i'm afraid i will die. i said, no, you are not going to die. then i heard shooting all around very close to the car and started hearing voices in arabic talking to each other, shouts at each other. i was so afraid. >> we are waiting for sagi to come home. we do not know what fate he met

along as i said with dozens of other people. so you understand, these aren't all 35-year-old men. these are children. these are aged people and everything in between. >> israel's response, a siege of the gaza strip, cutting off food, water as hamas threatens more strikes. the death toll continuing to climb. more than 900 israelis, 788 palestinians and 11 americans with the white house saying the number of american fatalities is expected to go higher. the "uss gerald ford" is acting as a deterrent to any potential expansion of the fighting by iran or lebanese hezbollah. u.s. officials say iran is, quote, in the picture.

they don't have any confirmation to corroborate "the wall street journal" saying they helped. the ayatollah denying any involvement by his country. financial assistance cannot be sent until a house speaker is chosen. they are trying to pinpoint where hostages are being held. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. we await president biden's big speech on the crisis in israel. our team of nbc news journalists are on the ground in israel as rockets are raining down on southern israel from gaza.

>> reporter: now we are hearing it again. jose, stay with us. there's one. there's a rocket. you can see it streaking in the sky right now. turning. there's another. this is being launched from a different site. now you will start to see the iron dome system taking them off. >> this as the israeli army continues to try to hunt down terrorists who came pouring through the border gates saturday, some of whom may be hiding and preparing to strike civilian areas again. terrified israeli hostage families are pleading with the netanyahu government not to launch a major assault against gaza until their relatives, their families, their loved ones are rescued. for first time today, americans who family members are missing are pressing for the u.s. to help find them. >> he was injured in a gun

battle. i mean, they were all civilians at a music festival. they were fish in a barrel. we know his arm from the elbow down was blown off. they were put on a pickup truck and driven away by hamas. >> both my brother and my sister were on the call with her as the terrorists barged into her home. we heard a little bit of screaming. and that was our last contact with her. it is our hope, which is a little bit ridiculous at this stage to say, that the optimistic scenario here is that she's held hostage in gaza and not dead on the street. i want also to speak about the

responsibility of the u.s. administration, president biden, and the secretary of state blinken has for the lives of every u.s. citizen that is out there. and they are responsible to bring the u.s. citizens back home safe and sound. we expect nothing less. >> there's dramatic bodycam video made public by israeli police showing tactical forces carrying out rescue missions in southern israel. in washington, fbi officials say there's no specific or credible intelligence indicating a threat to the u.s. stemming from the hamas attacks. law enforcement agencies do not see any immediate threats to the jewish american community, but note the potential threats could rise, and security has been increased. the senate foreign relations committee will hold a confirmation hearing for the

u.s. ambassador to israel nominee. he would not be voted on the floor for another week or more. richard engel is in israel. we have seen the bombardments on downtown gaza. you have been with trooping moving through southern israel, the communities. we see air strikes. you have been in the middle of it. >> reporter: we have been all over this southern area today. we are in ashdod. we started out on the border near gaza. we went to an israeli community. i'm pausing for a second, because even here you can see in the distance -- i think you can

see it. it depends if the camera can pick it up. there are explosions in the direction of gaza. the strikes into the gaza strip are continuing. and rocket fire coming out of the gaza strip. you can also probably hear some of the blasts. these are very big explosions, even at this distance. we can feel some of the vibration as the pressure wave is reverberating here. the clip at the top of the hour, hamas today said in order to retaliate for strikes against the gaza strip, that hamas would attack the city of ashkelon. they did launch dozens, perhaps close to 200 rockets. from what we could see, almost all of them were knocked down by the iron dome system. the air war here rockets from gaza, going into gaza, it's in

israel's favor. it's not even a challenge. israel dominates gaza when it comes to military superiority, attacks from the air. gaza is being flattened. israel, because of incoming rockets from hamas, is not being flattened. they are being shot down. the different dynamic was this infiltration by hamas militants. we are talking many hamas militants. their bodies are still by the side of the road in southern israel. i spoke to a soldier who said they believe that they will collect the bodies at some stage. the priority is to collecting israeli bodies. we talk about this death toll. it's reported in the israeli media. there's no real official israeli government number. the israeli media has generally been accurate and ahead of the curve. right now, it's over 900. they don't know because they still are finding more bodies as they go into communities right on the edges of the gaza strip

and search for people. there was an attempt -- hamas didn't destroy the city. it fired 200 rockets and caused minimal damage. some casualties but quite limited compared to what they intended to do. the gaza strip is being taken apart. if you see images from gaza, there are buildings going down. the homes of hamas leaders are being attacked. boats in the port are being attacked. it's really escalating now. the question -- you were alluding to it. the question, particularly for all the hostages who are -- who have been taken into gaza, will there be a ground assault? will this air campaign, which overwhelmingly favored israel at this stage, go into a ground war? if they want to achieve their

goal -- the israel government says its goal is to remove hamas from power. just bombing them from the air might not be enough to do that. they don't want to go in. who wants to go into gaza when there are hostages there, when the city is booby trapped? we're in a very delicate moment. the israelis are trying to soften the target as much as possible. there are some negotiations going on with egypt and qatar to try to get the hostages out or the women and children as a start. then this lingering question, will that be followed on with a push into the gaza strip? >> we have been seeing on part of our screen, as you may see, there's more rocket fire where you have been. the region fully engaged as you have been reporting. thank you. stay safe. >> reporter: we are on day four

of a war. i think -- i didn't mean to interrupt. i don't have return. i can't see the pictures you are talking about right now. we just arrived here from ashkelon. we were in a bunker in the city, an air raid shelter watching the hamas rockets come in. there were lots of them. almost all of them were shot down by the iron dome system. but it's a full-on war. this is day four, the end of day four now, of a conflict that could go on for months. it's really hard to tell because it has this different factor right now. this unique, terrible factor of the hostages who are in gaza. >> absolutely. richard engel, thanks again for all your experience in that region and elsewhere. we really appreciate it. i want to bring in ambassador regev, israeli ambassador, experienced

diplomat, currently i believe advising the government. thank you very much for being with us. our hearts are with the israeli people, with all of the victims of this terrible war, a war not of their choosing. we heard from american citizens in israel today pleading with both the u.s. and israel, with the two governments to try to rescue their family members. to get them home safely if they are still alive. what would the potential of retaliation by air or ground do when you don't -- you haven't been able to pinpoint, i would believe, where they are, with the tunnels, they might be moved around -- how you can retaliate and punish hamas immediately while you have potentially 150 hostages there? >> so it's obviously a very

difficult situation. and the dilemma you presented us with, it comes after, as you also said, the dramatic events of saturday where they crossed the border and butchered people randomly. it was a terrible day, a horrific day, a trauma for israel. i don't think we have ever had a terrorist incident of such a scale before. as we said in the previous report, this has been described as i.s.i.s.-type violence. we saw children who were shot after being bound and gagged. we saw an 85-year-old woman taken off to gaza as a hostage. we saw young people at an open-air festival, music festival, just shot, massacred. we saw some of them burnt to death while still alive. terrible, terrible scenes of i.s.i.s.-type violence. i think what has to be said here

is if some people thought that hamas is running the gaza strip and responsible for 2.3 million people who live in the strip, so that forces them to become more pragmatic, that forces them to be more responsible, sorry, it's just not true. hamas has shown itself for what it is, a brutal terrorist organization. like the taliban in afghanistan, running the country doesn't take the taliban necessarily more moderate. it's the same when i.s.i.s. controlled territory. it's the same in gaza with hamas responding the territory. we have to respond. they started it. we will end it and we will end it on our terms. >> would you put a pause on ending it, whatever that turns out to be, until you find the hostages?

>> if we were to do so, that would give hamas a guarantee that they don't face a counterstrike. that would be a mistake. so we have to have two parallel goals. one is to hit back hard at hamas to make them pay a price for their atrocious, horrific, barbaric behavior. at the same time, do everything we can to free the hostages. it's a dilemma. it's difficult. but we will pursue in parallel those policy goals. >> u.s. and israeli official officials were saying yesterday they saw no link to iran other than years of supporting, training hamas. there would be no hamas without iran. that's very clear. in terms of "the wall street journal" report, of a green

light, an order, a plot that basically came from tehran. do you see that? because up until now we have been told by israel and the u.s. that they don't have that connection, no smoking gun. >> so i don't want to go into any specific intelligence. i am not going to argue with what's being said. i will say this, when the whole world -- almost the whole world united to condemn hamas' brutality, the regime in iran applauds and celebrates the atrocity. that's why some people next to me are saying that maybe hamas is more dangerous than i.s.i.s., because i.s.i.s., for all its horrific behavior, hamas -- sorry, i.s.i.s., never had a state supporting them. while hamas in gaza has state support from iran, as does

hezbollah in lebanon, which makes the situation especially dangerous. >> there's also a report -- one report that egypt says that it warned israel that this could happen. does that explain -- could that explain the intelligence failure? did they have a warning of saturday's attack? >> so we -- those reports are not true. we did not receive any concrete warning. they caught us off guard. as israelis, we have always prided ourselves on the excellence of our intelligence services. we live in a tough neighborhood, and we needed to have effective intelligence gathering. here, obviously, there was a mishap, a very -- a mishap we paid for, that intelligence didn't get prior warning of this attack. we have paid for that. i'm sure when this is over,

there will be investigations underway. lessons have to be learned. we have to make sure that we do better in the future. >> can egypt and qatar, as the u.s. has been hoping -- can other countries help influence hamas to release the hostages or let you know where they are? >> i'm very doubtful. we have had experience not with such large-scale hostages ever being taken. that's very new. in the past when there was a single hostage, we found that hamas was totally brutal in the way they deal with hostages. we have no illusions. our hearts go out to the families of all the people who have been killed, obviously, but those people being held in gaza. it just shows who hamas is. i mean, hamas is considered a terrorist organization in the u.s. and israel, in australia and canada and the european

union and great britain. it's not designated a terrorist organization without reason. this is who they are. they are very dangerous. i think you said before in the report -- you talked about how maybe this was part of hamas' desire to destroy the peace process in the middle east, because as you have reported, we have had good relations, improved relations with the arab world. israelis and arabs are talking more than ever before. i think that's a threat to hamas. that's a threat to iran. that's a threat to all people who don't believe in peace and who don't believe in reconciliation. it must be understood, hamas is an enemy of peace and reconciliation. they believe that any peace between israel and the palestinians is a sin. they believe israel shouldn't exist, not in any border. they believe in a violent revolutionary jihad. they are the enemies of peace.

whether israel fight has maas -- we will defeat them now. that can open up, i hope, possibilities for peace. because if hamas is defeated, maybe that gives more space for people who want to see a different and more cooperative middle east. >> thank you for taking the time to be with us today. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. we have a live look at ashkelon, israel, gaza. the skyline is dark in both places. i will talk to the former u.s. ambassador to israel. he is next. you are watching msnbc. this is american infrastructure. megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind. all running on countless invisible networks, making it a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google

also defends the systems running america's infrastructure. for these services. for the 336 million of us living here. ♪ (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. for the 336 million of us living here. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. president biden and vice president harris met with their national security team ahead of a major speech in the next hour by the president to the nation. the u.s. does not have an ambassador in israel.

the president's nominee to be ambassador still awaits a confirmation hearing scheduled for next week. joining me now is tom nides, recently back from israel. thank you so much for being with us. let's start with the president's speech. what should he communicate to the international community, to israelis, to jewish americans, to our country? >> first, thank you for having me. i think it's been clear from the get go that the president's commitment to the state of israel and to the jewish people is unbreakable. i remember when he came to visit israel in july of last year when i was ambassador. it was his tenth visit. he told everyone, you do not need to be a jew to be a zionist. he believes about the importance of the state of israel, the importance of security by the state of israel, the importance of making sure that the security is unbreakable and the united

states is with them all the way through. this is a very, very dark time for the state of israel. do not underestimate the jewish people to rally to do what needs to be done. the president has the back of israel. he said it over and over again. the vice president i talked to yesterday also reiterated again that america has israel's back. to protect it, to make sure the regional actors don't get involved, to help in any way we can to rescue the kids, the women, the children and the elderly out of gaza, get them home to their families. this is a disaster. what hamas did and how they have done it is beyond any words. i have been on the phone the last 72 hours talking to my colleagues, talking to families who have got their kids in gaza kidnapped. it's beyond anything any of us can imagine. israel will get through this.

but it's painful, and it's exhausting. it will take an enormous amount of time and energy to try to do it. >> i went to talk about the hostages. concerns by their families, by families that retaliation from the air, potentially from the ground into gaza by israel, understandably, but will be a death sentence for their families. you just heard that has to be the main concern, the retaliation making hamas pay for this beyond the hostages. how do they balance that priority? >> listen, obviously, i'm going to let the israelis speak for themselves about getting the people back. israel's commitment to the people of israel and to the jewish people and to those americans is unbreakable. i think they will do whatever they can to get these people's lives back. make no mistake, hamas created

this chaos for one purpose and one purpose only is to create destruction of the state of israel. they don't care about the palestinian people in gaza. as you know, hamas is so unpopular within gaza, so unpopular with the palestinian authority in the west bank. they are jihadists. they are similar to i.s.i.s. all they care is for their emotional decision of what they want to do, destruction of the state of israel. i'm confident that israel's ability with the intelligence shared by the united states will do everything they can to bring these families home to their loved ones. again, i can't put myself in their position. i have talked to many of the families who are suffering. i think obviously they will do whatever they can to get these families back home safely. >> ambassador, both the u.s. and israel have said there's no smoking gun pointing to iran

other than their 30 years of arming and training hamas. is that a distinction without a difference, whether or not they ordered it? aren't they responsible for hamas? >> listen, again, i think there is -- i will let the administration speak to whatever intelligence they have or don't have. the reality is, there's no question that funding from iran has gotten into hamas. i don't think anyone will misunderstand that. there's clearly -- i give no pass to iran being involved in the planning. i'm not here to judge. all i know is what happened, how it happened, the destruction that happened and the need to make sure that iran and its proxies, including hezbollah, stay out of this. i think that is why president biden and secretary of state blinken and jake sullivan have

reminded those people who are sitting around the region thinking they may want to get into this, not to. the united states has the back of the state of israel. no one should misunderstand that. >> ambassador, thank you for your public service. thank you for being with us today. we appreciate it. >> thanks. appreciate it very much. thank you. as concern for the hostages in gaza is growing, a professor remembering his daughter and son-in-law. he was on the phone with them on saturday when hamas gunmen broke into their home. as stephanie gosk reports, he says the couple was shot and killed while shielding their teenage son who did survive. >> we heard her son say that i am shot, there's blood in me, and he was instructed not to speak. >> for ten hours, they texted

him as he hid from the attackers. when hamas returned the last time, they tries to burn the house down. >> they tried to burn it down. why? because in the event that there were any survivors, they wanted to shoot any survivor who would walk out the front or back door. >> he survived. the family is left shattered by hamas' attack. >> these are not the people who should have been killed. but they were. what happens in the future, i don't know. >> his daughter and son-in-law had hoped for peace, he says. now they will never see it. in this clinic, we pride ourselves on putting others first. it's on us to help care for our clients' well-being; to help them adapt. it's inspiring to work at a place where our patients succeed. and we as therapists do, too. with great benefits from principal, we feel appreciated for the work we do. (♪♪)

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joining me now, nbc news correspondent raf sanchez in ashkelon, israel. there's been rocket fire there. can you tell us what you are seeing? >> reporter: yeah.

i don't know if you caught those booms just a second ago. that was the sound of israel's iron dome missile intercepters bringing down some of the rockets that have been relentlessly falling on ashkelon for the last 2 1/2 hours now. those interceptions sounded like they were just overhead. we will go outside in a minute. you don't want to run outside immediately after the sirens go off, because there's a rain of jagged metal as pieces of the interceptor missiles fall to earth. you don't want to walk around in the open when that debris is falling. i can tell you, when the interceptions are that close and you are in this bunker, even with all of this reinforced concrete around you, you can feel an absolute thump of air pressure. you feel it in your lungs, the force of the explosion. we are obviously wearing flak jackets. you are constricted already. it's 7:30 here.

hamas said earlier in the day that at 5:00 p.m. they would begin bombarding ashkelon. no one really knew if it was rhetoric or how seriously to take this threat. i can tell you, at the stroke of 5:00 p.m., this rocket barrage began. it is by far the most intense volley of rockets i have been through in the four days of this conflict so far. i'm going to ask our camera operator if we can start moving outside now. the fact that these rockets are continuing to come down just underscores that four days into this, despite the intense israeli air strikes on gaza, hamas retains at built to fire rockets, retains the ability to threaten the mjor cities of southern israel. you may have been able to see the lights of an interception. that appears to have been off in

the distance. we don't know that most recent barrage that sent us run together air raid shelter, whether there were any direct hits. over the course of the day, there certainly have been rockets that have come through in gaza. i don't know if you can hear the booms. >> we can. >> reporter: the interception coming closer to the gaza border. this is the reality. people in southern israel have been living with this for four days. i will tell you, the grimmest of grim ironies, just before we got on the phone with you, we were doing a zoom interview with a young woman in gaza. she's the mother of a baby girl who turns 2 tomorrow. in gaza, there are no air raid shelters to run to. ultimately, it was the sirens on our side that cut our interview short. this young woman, she's already been forced to evacuate her home twice. they are basically following warnings from the israeli milley

te -- military to get out of the middle of gaza. she's terrified. her soon to be 2-year-old daughter is terrified. they are terrified there may be intense urban warfare on the streets of gaza city and other parts of the strip. >> raf, you and dave should get back inside if you can. i know you are an experienced combat correspondent. but just please be careful with you and dave, our friend. thank you. as many as 150 israeli hostages were taken by hamas and brought into gaza. their families and loved ones are desperate for my information. hamas is threatening to kill a hostage every time the israelis hit them.

thank you for being with us. i know you want the wold to know what's happening there. we are grateful to you for being here. tell us about vivian and her activism, why she was on the israeli side of the gaza border. she was originally from canada. >> yes. my mother vivian silver, she emigrated to israel from canada. we grew up, me and my brother, right on the border with gaza. like you said, she was a peace activist. she dedicated her life to peace and reconciliation and to find a solution to the conflict between israel and palestine.

>> where was she living? what was the last you heard from her? >> she's been living there. i've been in touch with her all morning saturday. she was hiding in her safe room. when i heard gunshots outside her window, we moved to correspond via whatsapp until she wrote they that they are inside the house. we said our good-byes. that was it. i haven't heard from her or from any authority in israel since then. >> how old was your mother?

>> 74. >> so she dedicated her life to, as i understand it, helping people there, bringing cancer patients from gaza into israel for treatment, things of that nature. >> yeah. she was very active. she was a co-ceo of an organization for peace. since 2015, she was very much involved with an organization called women wage peace. they just had a big event last week or two weeks ago in the region, international event promoting peace. she would volunteer, driving patients from gaza to israeli

hospitals. >> i am so sorry that you are going through this. we just pray that she's alive, that she can be rescued. stay in touch. let us know if you have any good news. >> i want to call on the israeli government to negotiate and to bring back the captive -- all captive people soon with diplomacy. i really want -- longing for information, concrete information and to know that she is there and safe. >> have they given you any information at all? >> no. >> okay. we will help amplify that appeal. thank you so much. >> thank you.

i want to bring in jonathan greenblatt, ceo of the anti-defamation league. i don't think either of us have seen anything like this, not in israel, not in past conflicts. >> no. i mean, to say that your heart breaks doesn't begin to describe the pain. story after story. this morning we learned that while moving through the debris of these towns and trying to recover the wounded, they found -- the israeli authorities found 40 murdered babies. some that were beheaded. a friend texted me about a 30-year-old woman -- pregnant woman found dead, her stomach slashed open and her fetus still

attached to the umbilical cord hanging out. the level of savagery here is i.s.i.s., it's al qaeda. frankly, it's nazi. because while vivian silver and so many people in the israeli community and so many people live me have pressed for years for a two state solution, hamas has pressed for a final solution. you know, the ambassador said yesterday that this was the most murderous attack on jews since the holocaust. but i think what's funny as we look at the grainy photos, and we think, it's impossible to imagine that, the way the nazis dehumanized jews, the way they regarded them as subhuman, which allowed them to humiliate their children, murder their women, to brutalize their elderly, to

destroy their homes, to -- we would think, that's ancient history. no, i'm afraid that's this weekend in israel. we need to realize what we are dealing with. i respect what mark said earlier on the show. yes, there will be a consideration of the military failure and the intelligence failure. but, andrea, this was a moral failure on the part of all of us, on the part of our elected officials who thought, there can be a standing status quo with iran. please, hamas and iran are the same. they are the same. hamas is a proxy of tehran. when the ambassador says correctly, we are not sure, we haven't seen -- there isn't a wider war that may happen.

the war is here right now. where do you think the hamas got thousands of missiles? they didn't materialize, they weren't delivered by hot air balloon. they came from the engineers in the irgc who are on the ground in gaza city, who are on the ground there. for years, under the nose of the israelis, because the israelis don't occupy gaza. the next few days and weeks, andrea, are going to be hard. they are going to be difficult. lives will be lost. lives were lost when hamas committed this against civilian civilians and grandmothers and disabled people. they will force the israelis to come in. i think it is nazi-level atrocity. all of us, all of us have to

look ourselves in mirror and say, enough. what we did to i.s.i.s., what we did to al qaeda, because they were medieval, we have to do with hamas, because this can't stand in a civilized world. i'm sorry. raping corpses and dragging battered women through the streets like trophies while people applaud. it is -- to say it's wrong understates it. i will say one last thing, these agents of death deserve what will happen to them. but their accomplices here in america, second guessing and trying to apoloize for and literally defending hamas, defending terror, there's a special place in you know where for people like that. >> let me ask you, do you think the u.s. should green light israel taking action against iran proper, against tehran?

>> i'm not a military strategist. i don't know the most effective way to do it. thank god president biden authorized the aircraft carrier. if hezbollah lobs one missile against israel, i hope that america will remember that these people don't just hate israel, they don't just hate jews, although they do, they hate all of us. if you are wondering if i'm exaggerating, let us sift through the bodies of 260 teenagers, americans among them, shot in the back. the stories are so blood chilling. to your question, should america green light an attack? iran is not just at war with israel. iran is at war with america. you know, andrea, i was on your show years ago around the iran because i did not think you could move in a direction of normalizing that regime. and i remember people said -- people said to me, they said, if you -- you either are for the

deal or you are a warmonger. the last few days have revealed, the waramongers were, are and will always be in tehran, in gaza city. if we don't have the moral clarity and the intellectual honesty to deal with enemies at our doorstep, history will not show us well. to those who thought there could be a long-term arrangement with hamas, i would urge you -- i would urge you to look at the stories of the grandmothers who -- and the grandchildren who were butchered like cattle this past weekend. ask them, ask their relatives in mourning with torn lapels, ask them if we can reason with hamas, ask them if we can make peace with iran.

let me know what they say. >> jonathan greenblatt, thank you. >> thank you. joining us now is former secretary of defense for the obama administration, leon panetta and former cia director, of course. leon, your reaction. would a ground offensive now be the right choice for israel? with all those hostages. >> you have heard the emotions of everyone who has experienced what happened here with this horrific attack by hamas. in talking to friends in israel, i don't think there's any question but that israel is going to do everything necessary to protect itself, including going into gaza. i suspect that we have already

crossed that line as a result of the horrific events that have taken place. israel simply feels it has no choice but to go into gaza and defeat hamas. >> what if hezbollah joins this? there have been some rocket attacks, but a large-scale attack from the north, from lebanon, with admiral stavridis telling us there are 130,000 rockets there on hezbollah-controlled territory. >> we have known for quite a while that there are very large numbers of missiles that are located in lebanon. you know, hezbollah -- if hezbollah decides to suddenly get involved -- make no mistake about it, lebanon and hezbollah will be involved in the same war as hamas is.

so it will broaden the war in israel. i don't think there's any question about it. hopefully, hezbollah understands the consequences here and will refrain from getting involved. >> what should the strike force on the aircraft carrier "gerald ford" do? should the u.s. get involved? >> we have a very significant strike force there. i'm glad to see that. i think we need to provide whatever support israel needs. i suspect that israel, at this point, has the capacity to be able to respond to those kinds of attacks. and it's going to be up to the united states, very frankly, to provide israel with whatever weapons and ammunition and missiles they need in order to defend themselves.

i think that the challenge for the united states right now is going to be, how do we maintain an arsenal for democracy not only for ukraine but now for israel as well. we seen the constraints that we have had just in supplying ukraine with what they need. now we have a huge responsibility to help support israel. it's going to require ultimately some action by congress to provide funding. and as we know now, without a speaker in the house, that is impossible to do. 2023 is becoming rapidly the year from hell, both in democra here at home, but also in the fact that we are now involved with two wars. >> the -- the u.s. and israel have both said that they have not actually found a smoking gun of iran's complicity in

planning, ordering this attack, despite they're supplying and being the military support for hamas for 30 years. is that a distinction without a difference? >> well, if reading "the wall street journal" article yesterday, they seemed to have pretty direct evidence of involvement by iran, although -- >> the white house is denying that. >> the white house -- the white house does not have that kind of -- or at least they're not indicating they have that kind of evidence, and obviously i think it is important for the white house and our intelligence agencies to be able to verify what "the wall street journal" was talking about. look, we know that iran continues to play a role in supporting hamas, supporting hezbollah, supporting terrorist groups around the world. and we know that they are a destabilizing force.

whether or not they crossed the line, i think it still remains to be seen. >> leon panetta, former defense secretary and cia director, thank you so much as always. >> good to be with you. >> and new video reportedly shows how hamas terrorists trained for these brutal attacks carried out against israel. the video shows terrorists training with paragliders, produced and edited by hamas, including the blurring of faces by them. the footage was released after the terror group launched its such attack on saturday. it is unclear when and where the footage was filmed. joining us now is norman rule, former senior cia official, senior adviser to the counterextremism project. norman, good to see you. whether that is, in fact, the training video or hamas video of the kidnappings, what role is this kind of propaganda, the first time we have seen them showing all kinds of body cam footage, footage from their attack, from the ground, from the air.

>> good afternoon. hamas is quite proficient at propaganda and public diplomacy. and we should be deeply concerned that this sort of video and various public diplomacy of statements being put out by hamas and its supporters throughout the middle east will have a real impact on regional views of this conflict. there will be pressure by pro palestinian populations in the middle east to restrain their governments from condemnation on this issue. and it is critical that the united states and its partners and israel work with these -- these partners in the region to shape arab public opinion to understand the truth and reality, not to shift them into what our way of thinking, but to make sure they understand the truth besides hamas propaganda. >> norman, if it turns out they find the evidence or that they acknowledge the evidence in the case they're holding it back to

avoid a confrontation, what are the military options for israel or for the u.s.? >> in terms of iran? >> exactly. >> well, i think actual evidence is going to be unlikely for several reasons. the modus operandi is consistent throughout the region. you empower proxies with ideology, train, funding, training and equipment in iran and allow them to build an indigenous capacity. you give them perhaps some weaponry that is specific to that battle space, that was explosively foreign projectiles in iraq, ballistic missiles and drones in yemen and in this case it would have been drones from iran and let them undertake operations based on their own local capabilities and local intelligence collection, with the exception of syria, iraq, and in some cases in yemen. iran plays very little direct

role in this because it is not necessary and not part of the action. that doesn't excuse them from any culpability. and i think there is more than enough evidence in any of these conflicts to indicate that iran is responsible and should pay a heavy price to include perhaps a military price. and i also should say as we're looking at this terrible human devastation, this horrific medieval style attack, we should recall that any of the missiles and drones from yemen, which were all almost primarily targeted against civilian areas, could have inflicted a similar civilian conflict but the world close to kick the can down the road of hard decisions regarding iran and may have come to the end of the road. >> and, norman, i want to bring in david ignacious, foreign columnist and associated editor for "the washington post." you have written that this attack raised a lot of questions about israel and how the u.s. and israel both missed this hamas plan. >> so, andrea, i do think from

an outside perspective this is an intelligence failure of great consequence. i think it is a failure in part to have collected the signals, despite blanketing gaza with sensors that would have told israel what was going on. obviously hamas has gotten much better about security, passing messages in a way that can't be overheard. also i think there was a failure in understanding what this adversary was capable of, that it was capable of not simply of hatred and defiance, but of highly sophisticated, multipronged operations. i think that's the shock. and talking to people in other arab countries today, who look at the israelis with great respect, some of that respect has really -- people said they were incredulous that the israelis missed this. >> and right now, by the way, to norman and to david, president biden is, we believe, still on

the telephone with prime minister netanyahu, supposed to be a 1:00 eastern address, we'll wait for that to happen, and carry it live, but there is very close coordination. we have, you know, no idea, david, as to exactly what he's going to announce, but obviously what their message is that the u.s. is standing with israel. >> so, it is clear that president biden's wanted to send that message. we're with you. my guess, andrea, is that we very much in character for president biden to speak from the heart, consoling israelis and americans who are missing their own loved ones, who lost loved ones, in the way that biden often does in these kinds of tragedies. i think the concern among officials that i talked to is that we're on the edge of what could be a major long-lasting ground operation in gaza with

enormous difficulty for israel. potential high loss of life for israeli forces going in. i don't know whether president biden will address that, but i know that advisers around him are concerned about it. >> david ignacious, thank you. norman rule, thank you so much. msnbc's special coverage of the war in israel continues after a very short break. war in israel continues after a very short break this is spring semester at over 13,000 us school districts, which have become top targets for ransomware attacks. but there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. which is why thousands of schools like the fairfield-suisun unified school district switched to google tools for education. so they can focus on teaching and 22,000 students can focus on learning, knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ )

thank you for staying with our special coverage of the israeli-hamas war. this hour, the focus shifting to the white house as president biden is expected to speak about how the u.s. is helping israel militarily and with intelligence and diplomatic pressure on arab allies to try to release the hostages. and limit this war from expanding. in just the last hour, more rocket fire in the skies above ashkelon, israel, southern