good to be back with you for another hour. i'm katy tur. no electrical switch will be turned on. no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter gaza until the israeli hostages captured by hamas are released. that is the promise of israel's minister of energy and

infrastructure. new drone footage shows what idf strikes have done so far, and for the roughly 2 million palestinians trapped in the enclave, half of whom are kids. hunger is mounting. israel's complete resource blockade of the strip is now in day four. one woman sheltering with her husband and 2-year-old told nbc news over whatsapp the only food that they have left are some chick peas, and that she says it's not going to last more than a day. officials in israel say the number of those kidnapped by hamas and are being held there in gaza is between 100 and 150. that does include american citizens. here with secretary of state antony blinken in tel aviv a short time ago. >> the families of the missing, there's an unrelenting agony of not knowing the fate of their loved ones. something that i don't think most of us can truly understand, truly contemplate if you're not in their shoes. no one should have to endure

what they're going through. we're doing everything we can to secure the release of the hostages, working closely with our israeli partners. i brought our deputy special representative for hostage affairs, steve gillen who joined in on meetings with the families, and will stay on the ground here to support efforts to free their loved ones. >> benjamin netanyahu's office has released graphic images showing the terror of hamas terrorists, what they did to innocent babies. it's washing the country with collective grief. throughout the day, repeated warning sirens also across the country, with towns to the south still being hit by hamas rocket fire. as hundreds of thousands of idf soldiers amass at the gaza border. joining us from the border is nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel. what can you tell us is happening there? >> reporter: for the last

several hours that we have been here, now it is obviously nighttime, we have been seeing not only hamas rockets coming out of gaza but mostly we have been seeing israeli air strikes on the gaza strip. gaza is behind me. actually, i just saw one right now. it was an orange plume. i don't think it was on camera. we might hear the explosion from that in a matter of seconds. the israeli air strikes have been constant, in barrages, two or three at a time, then a pause and another barrage. we have not seen much rocket fire come out of the gaza strip, but we have seen some, and throughout this area, the israeli troops are amassing for potential ground invasion. we don't know when it's going to happen. i think you can hear faintly now, those incoming israeli strikes, so we don't know exactly when it's going to happen. of course that is a state secret, but israel says it will happen.

and if you listen to the rhetoric and the statements coming out of israeli officials, they say they are ready, they say they are going to do a decisive campaign to eliminate hamas. and that is what this region is bracing for. and as you were just talking about earlier, the humanitarian situation in gaza just now because of these air strikes, even before a potential round is increasingly dire with the u.n. warning of a humanitarian disaster. >> when you're seeing the amassing of the troops at the border, does it look to you from all of the experience that you have had that they are waiting for an imminent ground incursion? >> it does seem like they are ready for a ground incursion, the word imminent is a difficult one. they are ready and just awaiting orders, so imminent is now a matter of a decision by the

israelis to go in. they're prepared. we've seen artillery pieces dug in, there are tanks, columns of tanks, armored personnel carriers, jeeps full of troops. we have seen soldiers on hill tops discussing battle plans. they're ready. they're here. if it is imminent, that's really a decision that only the israelis know. and probably the americans know because they are working hand in glove with the united states on this. the u.s. has been sending in weapons. the hawes has been coordinating with the israelis about potential hostage rescue missions because in the gaza strip, there's not just this attack and these air strikes, there are also those 150 hostages who are hidden, potentially, underground in hiding places who are under attack. >> richard engel, stay safe my friend. thank you for coming on. and joining us now is nbc news foreign correspondent raf

sanchez. so, raf, reporters have been given tours or having able to visit some of the areas where the slaughter took place, and as i understand it, you were able to get to the site of the music festival where israeli officials say at least 260 people died? >> reporter: yeah, that's right. katy, so this is the super nova music festival. this was 3 1/2 thousand young people who were dancing through the night, into the early hours of the morning on saturday. some of them could see specks appearing on the horizons, dark dots getting closer and closer, and they only came to realize when it was too late, these were the hamas para gliders coming over the horizon. there were horrifying videos of hundreds of young people fleeing across these open fields, trying to get away, survivors give these harrowing accounts of in some cases playing dead, covering themselves with blood in the hope that they might save

their lives. one person we spoke to talked about seeing a group of women freezing inside of a car, completely paralyzed by terror, and he says he just knew in that moment that those women were going to be killed, that they were not going to be able to save their lives. we walked the grounds of this music festival earlier today. it is a ghostly site. a place that was once full of music, full of joy, now just deathly silent. while we were there, we spoke to the spokesman for the israeli defense forces. this is a man who is a former navy seal, the israeli equivalent of a navy seal. he is a hardened soldier but he was emotional when he talked about what happened in this site. i want you to take a listen to a little bit of that. >> people came here to hear music, to do love. they wanted to live. someone plant a scale of an

operation to do a massive massacre and conquer this area to rape young girls here. this is insane. this is insane people. these are animals, now holding women and children and old women, god knows what's happening to them. >> reporter: now, katy, i asked him the question that many many israeli families are asking him, which is where was the army on saturday morning? why didn't they stop this attack , and once the attack was underway, why did it take them so long to get. he acknowledged this was a failure. the israeli was the israeli defense forces and they failed to defend the population. i tried to engage him on the specifics, was this an intelligence failure, was there some sort of communication error that troops didn't get to the scene. he said there will be time for all of these questions.

their focus right now is on as richard was saying, the looming ground offensive in gaza. >> intelligence failure is one thing. what took them so long to mobilize and get to the places that were under attack. six hours, seven hours, ten hours, 12 hours, it took quite a long time for the israeli soldiers to get there. raf sanchez, thank you very much. and joining us from ashkelon, israel, is msnbc host and chief correspondent, ali velshi. where are you and what are you seeing? >> reporter: i'm just a little north of where richard is, 4 kilometers from the border, when he hears something, we hear it on a little bit of a delay. we're in a little town. places are still open. there's a place that's got kabobs, they have been watching tv, the news, and a lot of people talking here. otherwise empty. the streets are empty because around this time of night is where the rocket fire comes in. we haven't seen that much in the last little while.

we're hearing the air runs and the missiles hitting gaza. the part of the story that you were just talking to raf about, the anger and the absolute fear and need for revenge that is going to result in that ground incursion is one part of the story. the other part of the story on this side of the border are the hostages, 97 families have been told by the defense forces that their family members are being held. there are probably another 53 who have not officially heard. one of those 53 families is the family of vivian silver. her son has been on our air a few times this week. they believe that she is a hostage. they just got into the house in the kibbutz yesterday and were able to confirm her body is not there. that has given them some hope. i asked him what he wants the world to know about his mother. >> i want to tell them how much she means to me, to my kids, and

to so so many people. all over the world. and that we're waiting for her. >> how are your kids? >> they keep their childhood in tact. it's not really a healthy home right now because their parents are preoccupied. my daughter said, so who's going to make me my birthday cake next year. i would like for this to be, we grow from. sometimes it's said, it's darkest before the dawn. i would like there to be a dawn because if we continue in the same path, it's going to stay dark forever. >> reporter: this man's mother, vivian silver, was a peace activist and a reconciliation activist. she was working with palestinians. she was working with other women. she's someone who would go to the gaza border when a

palestinian woman would need to come out for health care because they can't get certain care in gaza and take them to their treatment. when i asked whether he thought that would matter to the people who took her, he said if it would have mattered, maybe she wouldn't have been taken. >> i would like there to be a dawn is a good sentiment to hang on to. al valley velshi, thank you. up next, how realistic is secretary antony blinken's push for countries to unite in a rejection of hamas. we're back in 60 seconds. onds

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but also what will and what can happen after that. joining us now is director of the center for middle east policy and brookings institution ne tan saks. thanks for being back with us. who are the regional players that can cool things off? who can israel talk to and who can hamas talk to? >> well, the key players usually between the two parties in the past have been egypt, which is the key, the gaza strip has a border with an arab country, egypt. and the second is the u.n. it can negotiate and speak to hamas and to israelis of course, and qatar is far away or traditionally much friendlier to the muslim brotherhood, and host hamas leadership, and they have been able to negotiate. we're seeing secretary blinken speak to them now. these three are usually the ones

negotiating between the two. right now, the mood in israel is not looking for a cease fire. the united states on 9/12 was not looking for a cease fire. that certainly is not the case here. >> you call this a peeric victory for hamas, what do you mean by that? >> they massacred probably upward of a thousands israelis, the vast majority of them civilians, babies, children, elderly, as you've seen. taken many of them hostages, and done unspeakable things there. but they have also made israel, this was the bloodiest day by far, including all of the wars. the bloodiest day in jewish history since the holocaust, and israel is willing to do today and feels a duty to do today things it did not contemplate on friday. i'm sorry to say that would mean enormous damage in the gaza strip, but also a change of

strategy for the israelis. they are likely to go after hamas itself in a way they have not in the past. in the past, they have seeked deterrence, they have seeked to find a way to restabilize things, to have a cease fire as we discussed. now they're seeking something very different. they're all speaking about bringing down hamas, destroying it. that could change. the goals may become more realistic, but the energy, the demand for action, demand for safety by the population, writ large, is for very decisive action and because so many israelis have already died, there's also a willingness to incur a cost in the ground invasion in the gaza strip that israel in the past was not willing to take, and will mean a much heavier, perhaps, toll on the gazans themselves, caught between the rulers of hamas that uses them as human shields and the israelis who now will be much hardened, their hearts will be hardened after the scenes of carnage and barbarity that they

see. >> do any of the regional players have a desire to see hamas continue to govern in gaza or do they have a desire to find some sort of peace post whatever what happens next, and if so, do any of the regional players help israel find a government for gaza, maybe the west bank, that can coexist with the israelis, understanding that there are elements of the israeli government that would need to change as well. >> well, there are some parts that support hamas. iran supplied hamas in the past. it has its own agenda. it's quite different. it has close recommendations with iran certainly. its junior partner in the gaza strip is a subsidiary of iran

hamas ha support in the population. hezbollah, is another big supporter of hamas. hamas has other allies. it's a muslim brotherhood organization. they don't all support it necessarily, but certainlyas a lot of allies and ties, and there is a lot of support in t populations in the middle east. not all see the images. some are getting disinformation, and some view hamas as a resistance movement despite all the scenes that we have seen. there are many governments in the region and certainly that includes the egyptian one, the most important right there that are antagonistic toward the muslim brotherhood. egypt has ties with hamas, ability to deal with hamas, and leverage over it, and deep an tip thi to it, much more than the egyptian people. we're a long way from the topping of hamas. there's an enormous task. if it happened, the question of what happens the day after is open.

israel doesn't have a clear answer. it never did. it's part of why they never toppled in the past. others don't have a clear answer either. the obvious one would be the legitimate palestinian government, the world that rules, and unfortunately that government has a deep, deep crisis of legitimacy among its own people. it might rule gaza and instead would be a tall order, it's the obvious one. if there would be a palestinian to control gaza strip, it would be the authority. >> natan sachs, thank you for joining us. what a ground invasion will do if and when it happens, and what it would mean for hostages currently being held by hamas. currently being held by hamas. an infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪

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with tanks and supplies amassing near the gaza border, the military warns it is preparing for the next stage of

the war. it is expected to be a massive and incredibly dangerous ground incursion into one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. complicating the mission are the hostages being held by hamas, between 100 and 150 of them, although that exact number is still unclear. nbc's richard engel has more on what comes next. >> reporter: today for the first time israeli officials said that they believe they have identified some of the locations where the hostages are being held. it is potentially encouraging because israel says in addition to going in there will be attempts to rescue these hostages. it won't just be an assault. it will be a complex mission to take out hamas, and israel hopes bring the hostages out safely. >> joining us now, counter terrorism expert, and israeli special operations veteran, airn aaron cohen. israel believes it knows where some of the hostages are. does that make it possible to go

in and get them? >> we have a positive mentality. everything is possible. we have to be very cup half full, you know, this is the real deal here. but let me say this. israel isn't junior varsity when it comes to hostage rescue. we didn't invent it. the british sasd, but we perfected the play book. in uganda in 1976, june 3rd. netanyahu's old unit, the general staff reconnaissance unit rescued 103 israelis who were taken by airplane to uganda and we brought them all back home, except for one casualty, the only army casualty, and he's a national treasure. we did it again on the sabina flight takedown, took down the first aircraft ever, called linear assault, and so we sort of set the stage for counter terror units around the world. the difficulty with gaza is that it's an unsterile area.

we're preparing artillery, looking to put in 300,000 reservists, we have the brigade on the south, attached to the southern command. equivalent to our marines. again, with those reservists and the tricky part here is to be able to get those hostages and how we do that is by gathering intelligence. we want to know, we've got thousands of phone calls being listened to by our intelligence agencies. i wouldn't be surprised if there are special operations commandos on the grounds, on the coastline of gaza, looking, scouting, planting signal devices, trying to figure out where they are. and here's the problem. hostage rescue is similar to a murder when it becomes a cold case. the longer we wait to have the intelligence, the more they get moved around, so we have to work really quickly. >> the last time israel got a hostage back, gilad, it took five years to do so, and they

traded a thousand prisoners for him, for that israeli soldier. i guess i'm trying to say, does that underscore how difficult it is to find people when there is an underground tunnel that israel probably has well mapped out but maybe not entirely but might not have the easiest access to. >> it's difficult, we have another special operations unit called yalom, which specializes in those tunnels. they have a special operations capability, and they are attached to the general reconnaissance unit. the tunnels aren't the issue. it's finding the tunnels, thermal imaging, a big piece from the u.s. coming in with the fleet they sent over. they have incredible equipment, and we have great relations with the united states. we're america's forward operating base in the middle east. i want to say this, the hostage rescue capabilities of the israelis are -- it's a creative platform, so there's a lot of moving pieces right now, and i think that you're going to see israel at its finest, and the

reason why is, because, again, they're really really good at this. >> the ground incursion itself, what's that going to look like? >> it's a vacuum that hamas wants it suck us into. it's going to be booby trapped. what's happening now, in addition to trying to rescue the hostages, we're going to have to put a significant number of soldiers in there. what i think this is if i was to take a guess without getting too far away from the reality would be israel is treating gaza like a pressure cooker, which means we're going to keep putting artillery in there, rocket fire, we follow international law. we tap and knock before the missiles go down. there's commandos on the ground, so missiles don't hit civilian buildings. i think what they're doing now is they're going to treat this as a slow burn to tire out hamas, and what's going to happen eventually, you can take the toughest terrorist in the

world. after however many days for not eating because there's no food, and not drinking water, they're going to start to deteriorate. other things will happen. it will affect the palestinian people but israel's on go. they have lost a thousand people, the numbers are probably a lot higher than what's being released. that's what i suspect. we're going to wear them down and be able to conduct that counter offensive. >> i know there's a lot of disgust for hamas, rightly so, i do feel for the civilians that are going to get caught up in this. >> we do too. the israelis have no problem with the palestinianing. we're doing them a favor. they're not being allowed to leave. the egyptian border is closed. they're not giving permits. the palestinian people are stuck inside gaza. hamas knows what it's doing. they're very comfortable with using humans as shields and bargaining chips. the more hostages they have and the longer they have them, they think they're going to get pack a hamas terror leadership, and

again, it's severe. it's serious. i think it's going to get bloody inside, let me say this, the go brigade, this isn't a jv football team. israel has been at war every decade, and they have to knock the rust off and now it's time to do business and that's what israel does well. we're not going off to a far away land. this is israel's backyard, and i think you're going to see magic and the collective will of the jews and israelis coming together because they don't have a choice. it's a unity that i can't explain that i think you get where i'm coming from. >> aaron cohen, good to have you. >> i appreciate it. what message the u.s. is sending with blocking iran's access to the $6 billion it got in last month's prisoner swap or was about to get. stay with us. stay with us emester at fairfield-suisun unified.

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new intelligence suggests iran was just as surprised as everyone else by hamas's attack on israel last sunday. the reporting raises doubt that teheran had a direct role in approving, planning or paying for the deadly assault. despite the revelation, the u.s. and qatar governments have agreed to block iran from accessing any of the $6 billion it got or was about to get during a prisoner swap last month. joining us now is nbc news chief

foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. so, andrea, tell us about this decision to refreeze this money. >> the decision to refreeze the money, katy, is partly about politics, frankly, but part to prevent iran from using any money that could possibly be used to help hamas. none of that money has been spent yet. the $6 billion, though, immediately created a fire storm politically in the u.s., starting with donald trump and other republicans. the head of the republican national committee said that they should, you know, zero in on this, and every republican candidate criticized the money. it's iranian oil profits that were approved under the trump administration that iranian oil profits could be held in an account in south korea to help our south korea and japanese allies, relying on iranian oil

for their economies. that was deal that was accepted under sanctions because of the nuclear program that had been restarted by iran after the trump administration broke out of it, that they could sell their oil to our allies who were really reliant on that, and that was to stabilize the oil markets. that said, they were permitted to release that money to a central bank in qatar, not spend it unless the u.s. treasury approved every disbursement for humanitarian purposes, and none of that money had yet been spent, but it really created havoc here for the administration. they argued it was worth it to get the hostages back. there was a lot of misreporting about it, and misinformation spread by critics of the administration. so to be clear now, the best way out now that the war had started and become even more toxic politically, they're freezing that money. qatar will not let any of that

out. none of it will go to humanitarian purposes to iran or anyone else. >> there was reporting in a newspaper in the united states that iran did have direct involvement but everybody, the israelis, the americans, hamas, hezbollah, and iran has said they didn't know about this. what is the intelligence that we're learning about suggest? >> on sunday, around 4:00 eastern, the "wall street journal" reported exclusively that there had been very specific meetings, meetings with hamas, with iranian officials in various countries, planning, plots for weeks, if not months, this exact attack, the surprise attack, of course, from saturday morning. i was getting warned off of that. we did not go with that story for the next day or so. we were reporting that we had no hard evidence. u.s. officials said the secretary of state said that. john kirby said it at the white house. they had no evidence, my

reporting from intelligence agencies and other sources was that we could not establish it, and interestingly the israelis from the get go were also saying they had no hard evidence. there was some speculation in some media circles, that this was because the u.s. and israel did not want to set off a situation that they had to take action against iran and have a wider war. but it was still consistently denied by both countries, and then "the new york times," i believe, and then we also reported some details that they have specific lines of intelligence that iranian sources, intelligent sources to the u.s. were surprised and shocked that this had happened. you don't have to take it to the ayatollah who denied it. american sources say, intelligence source says it didn't happen. they were as surprised as everyone else that hamas had been doing this in secret.

just one quick point, though, hamas has been supplying, and training, arming. they have been armed and trained by iran for decades. there would be no hamas without iran, so for all intents and purposes, they have made this possible. >> andrea mitchell, andrea, thank you very much. and coming up next, the plans for a possible ground incursion in israel. a spokesperson for the idf joins me after the break. idf joins me after the break with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. with a partner that puts you first. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪

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new video that has just been released shows the moment idf soldiers entered the grounds of the music festival after the hamas attack. you can see these soldiers entering the gates, guns drawn. it comes as the israeli military chief of staff said the idf does bear responsibility for the security failures. adding, quote, we will investigate but now it is time for war. joining us now is idf spokesperson lieutenant colonel jonathan, thank you very much, let me ask you about what is immediately at hand. we've gotten some confirmation from officials that you guys do believe you know where some of the hostages are. is that correct? >> first of all, thank you for having me, and i don't know who that official is, and i can't verify. i can only tell you that obviously the issue of our

hostages that are being held by hamas is a top priority of the resources of the state of israel, including collection of intelligence and other resources are being focused at this. and you referenced this statement made by our chief of staff, lieutenant general before. we are committed to bringing them home as soon as possible, and we will not rest until it is done. >> do you have human intelligence inside of gaza right now helping? >> i can't elaborate on that. >> let me ask you about what you are preparing for next? i know there's an amassing of troops at the border, but i do want to ask you about what's going on in the north. hezbollah, it's been pretty quite up there today. how is the idf preparing for the second further opening of a second front? >> yes, one of the challenges that we are facing is we should

potentially find ourselves in a brief front war where the lebanese front would be added and perhaps also a syrian front. all of these places are location where is there are iranian militias that have been able to establish themselves and basically take over the areas where they are. today hezbollah controls southern lebanon 100% and many other parts of lebanon, and there are many militias in syria. hanging on to the discussion you had before, it is abundantly clear for anybody who has been following events in the middle east for the last shall we say 20 years, had it not been for iran, there would not be a single terror organization around our borders, and they wouldn't have neither money nor weapons to fight us. so we are deployed along the northern border following the movements, tracking the movements of hezbollah very closely, and we have added lots of capabilities, infantry, special forces, air force,

armored and artillery forces in the north, in order to send a very clear message to hezbollah that it wouldn't be wise, and it wouldn't serve their interests, and it wouldn't serve lebanese civilians if they decide to attack israel. >> within the country itself, i know it's believed that you were able to seal off the border and force the hamas militants that you know were there back. are you concerned that there are still some maybe lying in wait for a future attack in the coming days, weeks? >> we are indeed concerned and actually more than concerned because just a few minutes ago there were reports of additional clashes between terrorists and israeli civilians in southern israel, quite far from the gaza border which would indicate there's either terrorists who were able to stay inside israel

and escape apprehension or other form of terrorist activity perhaps based on sleeper cells or otherwise terrorist organizations that have been able to perhaps use the momentum and the opportunity here to strike. >> where is this? you say it's quite far from the gaza border? >> yeah, southern israel, about 15 miles, there's a community called papish, there's a report coming out in the last moments that there's clashes there, and there are also reports of a strike in the vicinity of belshiva, which i think is around 40 miles from gaza. so definitely not the near walking distance. of course this is preliminary information. we'll have to verify it and understand, but since you asked about the situation in the south, these are two examples that tell the story exactly of what you are asking, the fact that this is still an active combat area and that there are terrorists trying to get in and perhaps still a few terrorists

inside as well that are now trying to attack targets. >> are there any reports of casualties? >> not yet, but this is, you know, really a breaking news, just incoming reports and we'll have to see how it unfolds? >> what's the security situation for the larger cities, tel aviv, for instance? >> the situation in other parts of israel, you know, reducing their activity to the minimum necessary. schools are closed, people are, if they can, they're working from home. if they are essential workers, then they are working but everybody else are minimizing their activities, and the main threat to our civilians in the major cities are rockets. rockets have been fired today towards bell shef va which are big cities in israel with hundreds of thousands of israelis living there, so far without casualties. the iron dome continues to

deliver and to save countless israeli lives. the situation is calm. people are on the stand-by and responding quickly to alarms. i can definitely say that we can see somewhat of a decrease in the amount of rockets that are fired towards our populations. definitely if you compare it to the situation on saturday and sunday when thousands of rockets were being fired at our civilians. >> colonel, thank you very much for joining us, we appreciate it. coming up next, if israel defeats hamas -- that is still quite a big if -- what takes its place? place? [ tense music ] one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? and for fast topical pain relief, try alevex. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. who do you take it for? but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide.

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here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. it comes with a private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. and there's no catch. it's free. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. israel has clearly stated its mission is to defeat hamas, but how will success be measured? and what might it mean for the country if it does not have anything left in gaza? joining us now is israel's

former deputy security adviser chuck fray lick. if israel is able to root out hamas. what takes its place? >> that really is the crucial question. first of all, rooting out hamas is a major undertaking in its own right. it means protracted, bloody door-to-door fighting, the worst kind of fighting there is to all involved, to destroy the tunnels, hamas has gaza crisscrossed with miles and miles of tunnels and other military capabilities. let's assume that israel can defeat, destroy hamas as a military organization, and then you're exactly right. the question is who comes after that. i think if you look at the various possibilities, it's either the palestinian authorities which was overthrown

by hamas in 2007 or maybe some local officials. that's not easy either. it's not easy to have the new entity come into being. there will have to be support for who ever it is to keep them in power because there will be remnants of hamas doing their best to topple them. >> do you have a sense for what the palestinian people want? there's some public opinion polling that said hamas had like 30% support within gaza. i think it's really hard to poll down there. they say they're democratically elected. how democratic were those elections? does anyone have a sense of what the palestinian people actually want within gaza? >> i don't think we have any good figures of the support. i think the number you're quoting may still be accurate. the people in gaza are -- unfortunately, they're hostage to their own government in the way that we're sort of hostage

to the violence that they keep initiating. as long as hamas is there, we will be in a state of military conflict and, frankly, regardless of who is in office in israel, there's no possibility for a final peace deal because president abbas who officially speaks to the palestinians, as the head of the palestinian authority, has absolutely no say of what happens in gaza. so we need to see a reunification of the west bank with gaza, but that's not going to happen for the foreseeable future. in the meantime, it's just getting a different government. >> i had a palestinian activist on who said israel is to blame for creating hamas and the anger that stemmed from hamas by what's been happening in gaza over the past few decades. what is the reaction to criticism like that, how ever explosive? >> israel has made its own share of mistakes over the years, and

there was a belief when hamas first appeared on the scene that, as a fundamentalist organization, it might be more interesting in fundmentism and in war. this is one of the primary reasons for the surprise, the dramatic intelligence failure on saturday. there was a belief among many that maybe hamas was finally, after a half dozen major rounds and umpteen smaller rounds, maybe it was not moderating so much as it was willing to raise greater emphasis on governance and trying to take care of the people of hamas. that's not what it's about. i think this demonstrated to us entirely that the hamas is what it is which is first and foremost an organization committed to israel's destruction, nothing else. yeah. your question is right. we made some mistakes over the

time, but that's sort of blaming the victims for being attacked. >> is a two-state solution possible? i know that's a long answer, but i only have a few seconds left, so i guess a yes or a no. >> yes or a no i can't give you. i can tell you it's not in the -- there were few prospects of it happening before this, and it, as best, has been postponed. >> sorry forgiving you the toughest question last and for telling you you had absolutely no time to answer it. ambassador chuck free lick, thank you for joining us. i appreciate your time. that's going to do it for me. deadline white house picks up special coverage after a quick break -- excuse me. right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it's 11:00 p.m. in israel where a slow and steady buildup of israeli