thank you for staying with our special coverage, i'm andrea mitchell in washington with breaking news in the israel, hamas war. israeli defense forces confirming their forces have been on the ground in gaza in limited targeted hits as part of raids that their officials are calling an effort to eliminate

the threat of terrorists and weapons in the area and locate hostages. this is not the all out ground invasion. they've also tweeted moments ago they are striking hezbollah targets in the north inside lebanon: secretary blinken earlier in doha qatar asking about the larger military offensive expected in the coming days. >> the way israel does this matters. the way any democracy has to deal with such a situation matters, and to that end, we discussed with the israelis, urged the israelis to use every possible precaution to avoid armed civilians. >> joining me now, ben rhodes, former obama national security adviser to president obama. ben, what secretary blinken was saying today and yesterday was that israel has a right to defend itself, that the u.s. is

firmly behind israel's military decisions and helping with them, but he was very pointed in, again, today especially in qatar, that they've urged israel to try to limit the damage to civilians. how do you do that with a ground invasion in that urban area? >> that, andrea, is the biggest question in the world right now. from the beginning the biden administration -- clearly wrapped their arms around -- such profound trauma and supported them in their determination to root out hamas that you've also heard that the administration keep returning to this line about following the laws of war, and that, to me, is their message at trying to limit civilian deaths and trying to limit the kind of collective punishment of the people of gaza that might be contrary to the laws of war.

now, in terms of the operational questions that raises, there are different scales of military operations that could take place here in gaza. a lot of talk about ground invasions. is that more limited incursions, operations to try to go after hamas cells or rescue hostages, or is that a full scale reoccupation of gaza and potential dislocation of, as we were hearing last night, maybe over a million people. there's a big spectrum in between those two things, and so i think the question in the coming days is just how expansive are israel's military objectives, and the more expansive they get in a densely populated place like gaza, the more risk there is so civilians. that's just the reality, andrea. >> and ben, stay with us. i want to also bring in nbc's raf sanchez. raf, what can you tell us about the breaking news from the idf that they have moved into gaza in the last 24 hours. this does not seem to be the large scale invasion that you haven't seen the tanks moving

in, but these are targeted -- targeted hits, they say, to take out terror cells and that they actually did engage in fire with one of them. >> that's right, andrea, these appear to be small scale special forces penetrations inside gaza. this is not what the israelis sometimes refer to as the big army, this is not the tanks, this is not the armored personnel carriers, these are small highly trained elite commando units operating on the other side of the fence as it were. they say that they not only took on groups of hamas terrorists inside of gaza, but that they were there gathering evidence to try to locate the hostages it. now, we don't know exactly where they were operating. we don't know exactly what kind of evidence they were gathering. the working assumption among israeli military officials, among people who pay attention

to this region is that given the value this hamas assigns to these hostages, given that they were seen as very, very significant bargaining chips, it is likely that hamas is keeping them under ground in this elaborate network of tunnels underneath gaza city, underneath other locations inside of gaza. we don't know if these israeli special forces were operating trying to locate those tunnels, if they were potentially seeking to capture hamas operatives who might have information, but it sounds like this operation according to the israeli military was part firefight and part evidence gathering investigation on the other side of the line in gaza. and of course, andrea, all of this happening in the looming shadow of what we do expect will be a traditional large scale ground offensive at some point potentially very soon, andrea. >> one concern, ben, for the

white house and all americans certainly and israel has to be the life of the hostages because once the full scale invasion starts, if it does start sometime after 5:00 tonight, which was the time line that the israelis announced giving them some hours ago a 24-hour notice, 5:00 eastern in our time zone would be midnight in israel, if it does start then, doesn't the life of the hostages mean less to hamas, their leverage than kind of becomes much less powerful? >> yeah, i think the life and safety of the hostages have to be on people's minds right now, and the challenges presuming that those hostages are in gaza, it's quite likely that, you know, hamas is going to try to embed themselves in civilian areas or even when you hear about, you know, potential evacuations of people to other

parts of gaza, which i think i can't really be done at the scale that were reported last night, a million people, but hamas is likely to bring hostages to those areas and go there themselves. you're talking about gaza as probably the least safe place on earth right now, and so the safety of those hostages either at the hands of hamas themselves, as you said they've threatened to execute people in retribution or in the midst of an ongoing war zone, that becomes certainly a question. it's one of the many risks that will have to be weighed here. there's a risk of civilian deaths. there's a risk to hostages. there's the risk of the nature of this war causing some escalation that brings in hezbollah or that inflames situations on the west bank. so there's the question of just how big and how does this ground operation in gaza proceed. then there's the question of what other effects does that

create and the hostages is obviously the most acute one for a lot of israeli and other families around the world missing their loved ones. >> u.s. deputy national security adviser witnessed not only urban warfare but hostage rescue attempts, the efforts to go in and get people out, to actually negotiate for them, how challenging is it in this context with hamas? and i guess secretary blinken in qatar had the best chance with the qataris who, you know, have hosted and have welcomed the hamas leadership there. >> that's right, there's a political track and a military track. i think politically, qatar and to some extent egypt have channels to hamas, and i'm sure they're behind things that try to identify perhaps there are some hostages, children, women, certain foreign nationals that hamas might be more willing to release. we'll have to see. it's a complicated question

because hamas usually likes to exchange hostages. they usually like to get palestinian prisoners released in return. i do not imagine that the israelis understand in their current mind-set are going to want to legitimize hamas in any way by making any kind of concession there. this may be more what can the qataris do to lean on hamas to at least have some humanitarian releases. as a military matter, you're right, andrea, i've been in the situation room when really difficult questions are raised about whether to launch rescue efforts, but i've been in rooms where that was difficult where you're talking about somebody who's being held in a compound somewhere. if these people are being held in this incredibly densely populated area of gaza that is literally a war zone, the ability to have kind of precision rescue operations is just incredibly difficult because it's taking place in the context of urban warfare, and so i do think this is going to be one of the more complicated questions, assuming that israel

does go forward. and a big question too, andrea is how good are intelligence, do we have intelligence about where these hostages are, obviously. if we don't know where they are, then you really can guard against things that might put them in harm's way. if you do, then you can at least either try to rescue them or try to avoid doing something that inadvertently harms them. this is an incredibly complicated circumstance. >> that's such a good point. you can see it right there from the ground how complicated it will be to try to find them, especially under open warfare. there was some suggestion that israel would not attack at the midnight deadline because it would be in the middle of the jewish sabbath. they would wait until sundown saturday, which would be around 2:00 our time in the afternoon. but there's no way really to predict this, is there? >> there's no way to predict this. i can tell you, speaking to israeli military officials there

is just an absolute determination to smash hamas's ability to carry out another attack like this, and frankly, to get revenge. you can see it in the faces of visibly outraged senior officers trembling at some of the sites that we visited over the last couple of days where you have had women raped, babies killed, this is something that has cut to the core of even the most hardened israeli battlefield commanders, all of which is a long way of saying i think they will attack at the point where they think they have the most success, and i don't think necessarily that the shabbat hours will deter them, but i do think the hostages are just an enormously complicating factor for a military operation that is already fiendishly complicated. urban warfare in one of the most densely populated places on

earth against an emboldened enemy who has just scored a historic victory from their perspective, and is fighting on home turf. it is a very, very difficult operation from all angles. angela. >> raf sanchez, thank you so much. please be safe. just you and your team, please take care as best you can. and ben, i also want to get your reaction to what we saw yesterday from secretary blinken, a jewish american secretary of state sharing many emotional moments with israeli families and survivors invoking his jewish ancestry in remarks that were seen around the world. this, you know him so well, his stepfather has written about the holocaust and is a survivor, his grandfather a survivor of peg rums in russia. what does his background mean as far as who he is?

>> andrea, you're right -- and the thing about tony is he's a relatively private person, right? and he is incredibly disciplined person on the world stage. he rarely lets his guard down, he rarely show emotion. he does the work. those of us who know him in private, know how much he is motivated by his -- the experience of his family, by the fact that the holocaust is in his family, by the fact that his family came to this country and was able to accomplish so much. his commitment to public service is entirely rooted in that experience, so what we saw yesterday is a person who many people see behind closed doors, an incredibly empathetic person and somebody whose public service is tied to that history rooting back to the holocaust.

that illuminates him, and i think the world saw yesterday the person that many of us have seen in private, which is, again, an incredibly proud, committed, american who really values the identity that his family brings to that service. >> from the response of the israelis whom i've spoken to and many friends and family of them, it's been profoundly welcomed in israel. ben rhodes, thank you so much. >> i'm sure. thanks, andrea. and joining us now is roe anyone bergman, the staff writer for "the new york times," the author of "rise and kill first: the secret history of israel's targeted assassination." also with us joe b. warrick. ronin, first to you, your reaction that there have been these limited raids in gaza from the israeli defense force. what are you hearing from your sources about what kind of

intelligence about the hostages that they might be able to gather? >> very limited, hamas we need to bear in mind was able to hide one soldier for five and a half years until he was released for more than 1,000 hamas prisoners. based on that experience meaning israel was not able to free him, get to him in a military operation, and then was forced to release so many in exchange for him, hamas came to the idea that if they kidnapped few israelis, they can release all of their prisoners, and initial interrogation of the perpetrators, the terrorists that were captured, not killed during the attack, the horrifying attack on saturday reveal again and again and again that this was one of the basic

motives to get as many hostages and get the release of the prisoners, i think that they got it wrong and that israel is instead of releasing those, israel will go all in with the purpose of destroying the regime of hamas. and i'm not sure how much in the overall calculus before going to the attack to this offensive, retribution and importance would be seen to the safety of the hostages because if you do that, then you do not go to attack highly dense, high populated area. it's either/or and i think that israel chose one target that supersedes everything, and that target is to dissemble the hamas regime and paying less attention

to what until eight days ago prevented israel throughout the years from going to ground attack, international prestige after so much collateral damage. and of course guard the israeli soldiers, the life of which is considered sacred to israel and now hostages. all those values are now less important than the one goal of the israeli leadership, which is to take hamas down. >> but how do they do that, ronen? how do they do that when the hamas leaders are in doha? >> i'm not sure that all of them are in doha. i would assume that two or three that they're looking for most, the senior military commander of hamas who survived five or six

previous attempts of israel on his life, and the leader of hamas in gaza strip, i'm not sure, these are going to leave. in any case, if israel is able to as the chief of staff, lieutenant general said this week, he pointed to sinwar as the commander, the initiate tor of this attack, and said we are going to dissemble all the structure beneath him, so if all those people, maybe some of the leaders know but if if all the others are arrested, all the weapons is collected and maybe some kind of symbolic picture of one of the leaders being arrested or being killed, i think israel could say that this is the end of hamas regime. of course it doesn't say anything about the day after, who will control gaza, and who

will guarantee israel if it doesn't control gaza that in a year and a half you have just the same with other people. >> and jobi, you're also looking into hamas's links to other terror groups, which groups? what can you tell us about that? >> andrea, there's a whole constellation of groups as we know. some have had their problems with hamas over the years. there's been some real rivalries and fighting in some plays. right now there's this sense that everyone is seeing an opportunity, they're seeing israel weaken and they're calling on local forces to strike out against other western targets to put pressure on their governments, to carry out lone wolf attacks, and so, you know, we see these calls going out on the internet right now on social media, and there's a great expectation that there could be violence not just around israel, but in other places as well. >> do you accept the u.s.

preliminary assessment that iran did not plan this specific attack? in fact, nbc was reporting that they had specific intelligence that iranian officials were surprised by it. >> i do think there was a lack of awareness of at least the timing. obviously instances like this require months and wedge at least a year of planning, and there perhaps were expertise exchanged. we certainly know that iran provides money, provides weapons, provides training, and has done so for years wechlt . they sure are applauding them from the sidelines and they potentially could become a party in this in other ways. we also know just from what we're seeing on the ground is that the weapons carried by these hamas soldiers are often iranian made or at least have iranian pedigree in the sense that the rockets that were essentially iranian designed but perhaps modified by hamas. so there's no question that u.s.

officials said, there was broad complicity by iran in this attack. we just don't know if they gave the green light and said do this now. >> and ronen, what can you tell us about the missed warnings? israel has acknowledged this was a colossal defense and intelligence failure. >> yeah, just the other way around meaning first intelligence failure. not supplying the alert in the night just before between friday and saturday, there were hints, some acceleration in traffic, and some of the channels that were monitored by israeli intelligence suggesting that something is happening. there was some discussions between high officials, but at the end, it did not yield into a clear warning to the soldiers that they should be on some kind of alert. the lower level of alert was not -- so soldiers that were supposed to be on guard were sleeping. some of them were sleeping and

were killed during their sleep. there's some kind of a massive malfunction in israeli intelligence that happened exactly 50 years and a day after the previous blow there when israeli intelligence was not able to give the alert before the surprise attack of 1973. the difference between the two is that in 1973 there was a lot of information that was not analyzed right. in 2023 apparently there was no information. either hamas was too sophisticated and was able to work through channels that the israeli intelligence just didn't know or israeli intelligence missed the right channels and didn't listen to them. but the fact remains, many, many hundreds of people were practicing, were preparing, were

doing all sorts of drills towards this day. this was not a well-kept secret between two persons, and yet, israeli intelligence except for little hints in the night before know nothing about that. this just paved the way to another series of major blunders that forces could not defend themselves and therefore not defend the villages, the civilian villages around them. >> ronen bergman, and joby warrick, thank you both so much. the tragedy of those missed warnings, obviously, for the people of israel. nbc news can now also confirm a tragic incident in southern lebanon earlier today, a reuters crew appears to have been hit by a rocket while filming along the israel lebanon border sadly killing videographer isham ab da la. two other reuters journalists

sustained injuries and are seeking medical care. our hearts go out to them, their families, to all the other journalists in harm's way. and up next, the latest on the lack of a house speaker and how the republican caucus is blocking its own calls for getting aid to israel. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. rts" onlc megawatts of power, rails and open road, and essential services of every kind. all running on countless invisible networks, making it a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends the systems running america's infrastructure. for these services. for the 336 million of us living here. ♪ my skin has been so much smoother so much more hydrated. it's olay! with olay hyaluronic body wash 95% of women had visibly-better skin. and my skin is so much more moisturized.

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scott putting his name in along with house judiciary chairman jim jordan who has reentered the race. both jordan and scott face the same uphill battle that steve scalise faced and kevin mccarthy. how do you get to 217 votes needed to win? all this as the pressure is building for republicans to reach a consensus and pass much needed funding for israel. to say nothing of ukraine and the budget battles to come. nbc's ryan noble is joining us

from capitol hill and also with us is fred upton. welcome both, ryan, where do things stand in the speaker's race, did they begin their second conference of the day, and have we gotten any word on what they are doing? are they actually going to get to a roll call inside? >> reporter: that's a great question, andrea, and i can tell you that that second conference meeting is happening here behind me. we saw a long line of republican members of congress make their way into that building and into that room. we've heard a smattering of applause, so we should be under the impression right now that the nomination and forum part of this proceeding will take place. essentially the two candidates will be nominated. there will be fellow members that will give speeches on their behalf, and they'll get to make their pitch to the rest of the conference. this vote will be a private vote, so members will be able to vote their conscience without

any specific consequence. the final outcome will be important. we widely suspect that jim jordan will be successful. he has now faced a challenger in the form of austin scott of georgia. it's really that margin of victory that we'll be looking for. as you rightly point out, andrea, you know, this candidate winning in this is only part of the battle. it's a small step towards the lodge goal of becoming speaker of the house. they would need 217 votes on the floor. if there's a sizable number of republicans that are willing to vote for austin scott who up until yesterday or up until about an hour ago showed no leadership ambition whatsoever, that would show that jordan does have problems within the conference. there is the possibility that they do this vote internally, they emerge with a nominee and then patrick mchenry the speaker pro tem makes an effort to take it right to the floor and drama

again on the house floor. >> i should point out that you were warning us the other day when steve scalise was nominated that it was only a preliminary vote and did not mean that he by any means would come to 217. he had i guess 113. some of those were non-voting members, and jim jordan had 99, and there were 99 people against him, if not more, and he actually lost votes as he was trying to whip the count all day yesterday before backing out. so that sets the stage, you know this better than i. jim jordan just got a key endorsement from the chairman of the republican congressional committee. what do you think? is there a chance jordan could overcome the opposition of a lot of more moderate republicans? >> well, a couple of things. first, you need to know that i'm told that more than a dozen republicans have left washington, gone back to their districts, perhaps some to the other side of the country.

so even if -- and i expect that jordan will get a majority today for sure. i mean, he's been campaigning for this for now two weeks, ten days. and so he'll get a majority, but he's not going to get 217 on the floor, and neither would austin scott, i think. i mean, things are really bitter right now. so chances are that, you know, assuming that jordan gets the votes, they'll have to say, well, we'll try to do this tomorrow. so everybody come back to the beltway, everybody come back to d.c., 1:00 so people can come back. if nobody gets to 17 and still not likely, that really punts it into next week, and that's where you'll have something like perhaps patrick mchenry, one that's widely respected on both sides of the aisle, doesn't want the job but maybe shut things down until earlier this morning when someone tried to raise and expand his powers. he doesn't want to do this. he's not part of that effort. but the world is ablaze right

now. we've got israel, we've got ukraine. here in michigan we've got the uaw strike. we have the cr so you got all these federal employees going what the heck is going on. are we going to keep the government open a month from now, when you're not even talking to each other? you've still got to get 60 votes in the senate to try to get anything done. so it's a mess, and at some point, i think, maybe everyone will say patrick, you got to think about this and work with the democrats. let's face it, it's a very small margin that the republicans have right now. i think patrick has -- certainly has the skills to try and do that, to try to bring some balance to the teeter totter so that we don't go off the deep end. >> i think you're channelling, fred, exactly what most americans are saying is looking at congress without a speaker for all this time. i want to show you austin scott i think and jim jordan in the hallway after the first round of the meeting that had started at 10:00 and broke and resumed at

1:00 after austin scott threw his hat in the ring. >> vote's not until sometime later. i think i can bring our team together. >> actually, i don't necessarily want to be speaker of the house. i want a house that functions correctly. >> so he said he doesn't really necessarily want to be speaker, fred. he just wants to get -- jump start the process. ben buck -- brendan buck was telling us earlier, you know, former adviser to boehner and speakers ryan, he was telling us that he thought he was kind of a holding action to try to give mccarthy supporters and others a place to stop jim jordan. >> well, remember, kevin is a big-time supporter of jordan. he worked the phones. he endorsed them in the race against scalise. there's really a bitterness, i would call it a poison between

scalise and mccarthy, so kevin's going to want jordan, but at the end of the day, i don't think jordan can get the 217. and then everyone will say to mchenry, that think god you're here and from us in the public, they're going to say it will be 10, 11, 12 days of this. it's timely, we get this thing resolved and get the country moving forward on a path. the white house wants someone to work with. all members of congress would like to see the ball going forward. we've had a real chaos for the last couple weeks, and what the heck happens if we have a terrorism strike tonight, you know, with what's happening in the gaza. so the sooner we get this thing resolved, the better. but my own -- you know, i suspect that it's still going to take a couple more days. >> well, ryan nobles, that's not good news for those of you who have been working through

everyone weekend. it's not good for the american people. ryan nobles. thank you as always, and fred upton, thanks so much. and msnbc's special coverage of the israel-hamas war is continuing with more on the looming humanitarian crisis in gaza amid the israeli military's ongoing blockade of food, fuel, and water, and civilians and health care workers like this doctor desperately try to stay out of the cross fire. >> no one can leave gaza. no one can enter gaza. there is no crossing borders, nothing left for anyone to do. it's a huge, big cage that we are trapped inside. inside it's not just designed to look good... it's built to command attention. it's not just a comfortable interior...

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israel's military gave to residents of northern gaza to get out and escape what appears to be an imminent full scale ground invasion by midnight local time. that would be 5:00 our time eastern. inside gaza residents like salma shaarab who we spoke to yesterday are making video diaries of what life has been like on the strip. here's some of what she posted earlier today. >> so as you can see, all gaza citizens are just preparing themselves to leave, and no one has a place right now. we're just going. if you have a car, just run. no one knows where we're going, but we're all evacuating. all my neighbors have left the neighborhood. no one is left but us, and we're ready to run. where? no one has any idea. we're going to the north of gaza, which isn't near at all, which isn't safe at all.

just pray for us and hopefully we'll come back home. we will come back home. >> the u.n. says the evacuation of northern gaza is not possible without devastating humanitarian consequences. hamas has been telling residents to ignore thousands of evacuation flyers dropped by israel and stay put. stay at home. human rights watch says even if all of northern gaza does try to leave, one day is not enough time. that's not to mention hospitals in gaza, many inside the evacuation zone, which are all filled to the brim and say them not move wounded patients, many of them children and teenagers: joining me now is phil chetwin, the global news director, phil, thank you, i don't know if you still have reporters inside gaza. others are trying to get out because it looks so ominous for journalists as well as any

westerners, americans and others. >> it's been a really tough few days. we have nine journalists still in gaza, and today we have moved them down to the south of the gaza strip as really all of them fear this looming israeli operation and this so-called deadline because it's not just that they're working on their own. they're not just making their own choices. of course they've also got all their families around them. so when we say we've moved nine journalists, it's about 40, 5 people with all their families and their main fear really is to get their families to safety so that they can then try to work, you know, in a clearer -- in a clearer way. >> phil, 40% of the population in gaza are children under the age of 15. many of them have been injured by shrapnel. we've seen evidence from

hospital and other hospitals. how hard is it for people to evacuate? how do you evacuate the wounded? >> i think it's extremely hard, and i think -- and we can see from the various different commentaries coming from the government and human rights groups, even the white house as well, this is an almost impossible task. there's really nowhere to go. i would say our own families and people have simply gone to the south where we'll be setting up, you know, in some relatives' houses, but really, there's no space or infrastructure to receive all these people going south, and as you mentioned, the hospitals in particular are a major problem because already they are running incredibly low on just the basics to allow them to treat all these seriously injured people. and by the way, there are more injured people coming all the time, so the idea they can really move these people in this

way is -- it would seem really almost impossible. >> and as we've been pointing out, running very short on fuel and food and water, and fuel is the generators to run the hospital equipment, so it is, you know, absolutely a vital commodity. phil chetwynd, thank you very much. best for the safety of all your people and the innocent people of gaza, who are victims as well as the israelis on the other side of the border. and as our special coverage of the israel-hamas war continues, a message of hope and resilience from some jewish faith leaders like this rabbi on new york's long island ahead of sabbath observations tonight. >> i encourage our jewish population who usually doesn't come to synagogue the sabbath, come out strong and let everyone know that just because hamas

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new developments in the gaza strip where the idf says in the past 24 hours it has been conducting targeted raids, not the full-on invasion. israeli forces say they've been working to eliminate the threat of terrorists. they've engaged with some cells and weapons in the area, and to try to locate information on the hostages. it comes within the last hour, the israeli force tweeted that it is currently striking terrorist targets belonging to hezbollah, also in lebanon to the north. joining us now is former nay tor supreme allied commander retired admiral james stavridis. thank you for being with us. what does this tell you, the targeted raids into gaza trying to prepare the territory perhaps for the full ground invasion? >> yes, unfolding according to

to plan, if you will, and that means continuously probing into this city-sized area, population a million or so. i credit the israelis for giving time despite the frustrations and the dangers of civilians leaving, believe me, it is better for them to leave gaza city, get to the south. gaza is a small place, but there is room to extract yourself from this city, get to the south. i think over time we'll see humanitarian aid flow into that region, hopefully egypt will open camps in the sinai. that's all in the future. at the moment, andrea, watch for israel to continue to do as much targeting as it can, go after ammunition, go after fuel, go after command and control nodes,

if you will, prepare the battlefield and behind it, i think we're going to see that ground campaign begin within 24 hours. >> how do you lead the efforts in the north according to the idf also that they have been firing into lebanon in response to hezbollah firing into northern israel. these seem to be limited, again, not a full blown invasion. >> i think we are going to continue to see hezbollah send an occasional rocket or two. but as you know very well, they have 130,000 surface to surface missiles up there. i don't think they will unleash that full battery. israel is signaling to hezbollah and there are back to iran, which is the puppet master controlling the streams of hezbollah, that they still have capacity to engage on that

northern front. in close with this, andrea, if i were talking to hezbollah about israelis coming up and striking and having capability, i would also say to hezbollah and iran, take a look to the west. look out to the sea, there's an american carrier battle group. there's another one coming. >> sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt, admiral. also the idf now currently saying they're attacking military targets of the hamas terrorist organization throughout the gaza strip in a more extensive attack with more details to come. and hamas, according to "associated press" is claiming that 70 people -- and we have to be very careful about attributing this to -- hamas is obviously not a reliable source on this, they claim that 70 people, mostly women and children were in a convoy killed in an israeli air strike fleeing

gaza city. we don't know if that actually happened, but we're going to be seeing a lot of these reports flying back and forth. admiral. >> i'll make a point here, which is that everything that hamas did in israel was deliberate. these were terrorist attacks unleashed against innocent women, children, elderly, babies, nurseries. we have striking evidence of that, sickening evidence of that. that was deliberate. in the course of this attack, i am confident israel will do everything it can to minimize collateral damage. could there be an inadvertent event? perhaps. but my money is on the israelis to do everything they can to try and minimize collateral damage, exhibit a would be they're not going for shock and awe, they're not trying for a surprise

assault. they're giving an extraordinary amount of notice encouraging civilians to leave. that's a big difference between these two militaries. >> and in fact, in giving this notice, they have given a lot of time while we've seen in plain view the amassing of the tanks and the armored personnel carriers, so these vehicles have been amassing in large numbers, the reservists are up. does the israeli defense force have enough now to put in the northern front as well as in the southern front? should hezbollah decide -- and i should point it out, the iranian foreign minister was in beirut just this week consulting with hezbollah. so they're making a decision, you know, in plain view as to how to proceed. >> indeed, and we all need to bear in mind both hamas in the south and gaza and hezbollah in the north are evil creatures of

that rotten theocracy in tehran. make no mistake, tehran is pulling the puppet strings here. i think -- i don't know but i think tehran will come down on the side of restraint to the north because they know if they directed hezbollah to begin a full-scale attack on israel, a, yes, the idf has the capability to thwart that attack. and b, the united states will enter this conflict in my view on the side of israel. that's why our president has said quite directly to iran, don't. don't even think about it. i think that's good advice from joe joe biden. >> indeed. admiral james stavridis, thank you, and coming up next, what a gaza invasion might mean for israel and what a post-invasion gaza could look like. >> as i'm speaking, we are going

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not knowing the fate of your loved ones is unfathomable. it is the reality brought by the bloody hand of hamas terrorists that no one should ever, ever be forced to endure.

the world has seen the barbarism committed by hamas. this evil will be etched in our minds forever, and it will be cemented in our hearts for years to come. >> u.s. ambassador to the u.n., linda thomas-greenfield moments ago at the security council speaking about the horror of what has happened in israel from gaza, from the hamas leaders of gaza, the terrorists. earlier, president biden and his national security team spoke for more than an hour on a call with family members of the 14 americans still not accounted for following the attack on israel just saturday morning. cbs's scott pelley asked the president why he wanted to do that, why he wanted to speak to them during an interview taped for "60 minutes." >> why do you feel so strongly about speaking to these families personally on zoom?

>> because i think they have to know that the president of the united states of america cares deeply about what's happened, deeply. we have to communicate to the world, this is critical. this is not even human behavior, it's pure barbarism and we're going to do everything in our power to get them home if we can find them. >> joining me now, journalist, author, and msnbc contributor. jonathan, you've spent years covering the middle east, covering this region in gaza, in israel. that's the hard question. how do you find them? how do you rescue them? how do you save them? >> yeah, well, nobody has any easy answers to this. nobody knows whether it's even possible to do so because of the tunnels that hamas has built under gaza city. i wouldn't underestimate the israelis, you might recall the raid at tevi airport where they

freed a bunch of israeli hostages that had been taken by terrorists. so there is a chance. unfortunately, it's likely that the hostages have been spread out. this was a lesson that evil doers learned after the iranian hostage crisis in 1979. you may recall that we staged a raid under jimmy carter to try to rescue the hostages. after that failed, what the iranians did is they spread the hostages out so that a further attempt to rescue them would be impossible. so it's very tough. >> and you've written about the political ramifications of all of this in terms of the times of israel also publishing an op-ed titled for years, netanyahu propped up hamas, now it's blown up in our faces.

they were trying to ignore them, really, after the previous prime minister of course back in 2005 ordered the withdrawal from gaza because it was so hard to manage. in the face of tremendous opposition from jewish settlers there. and now it's all coming home to roost. >> they had to, you know, this is a little remembered fact but at the time israel pulled out of gaza, and by the way, that's a fact that many americans who have been, you know, talking about the occupation in the last few days, pro palestinians, they don't seem to know that we shouldn't know that israel pulled out of gaza in 2005. and they actually uprooted 9,000 israeli settlers and forcibly removed them from gaza. so israel has no interest in

colonizing gaza. there's been a lot of loose rhetoric about that, but they are about to occupy gaza city. by the way, with a force that will be much larger than the united states had when we had this awful urban combat during the iraq war, there have been be a lot of comparisons to fa lieu -- fallujah, there were 13,000 refugees, this time the israelis with overwhelming force, and so they will take gaza city relatively quickly despite the brutality of the fighting underway. >> we're going to have to leave it there, jonathan, thank you so much. that does it for our two-hour special coverage of the