considerations which is as many people focus on one aspect of the policy that is important, this war, anyone who knows about this understands the threat of a greater regional war, something that many sides would be hurt by, but yet may not be always 100% avoidable. that was president biden's concern when the issue was raised in the new interview about hezbollah and iran. >> there's limited fighting already on the northern israeli border, and i wonder what is your message to hezbollah and its backer, iran? >> don't. don't, don't, don't. >> don't come across the border, don't escalate this war? >> that's right. >> don't do it. those are the words from the president. whether they will be heeded is one of the questions in this complex conflict. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now.

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> we don't have food, we don't have nothing. nothing, no life here. no life here. when i close my eyes, i see bombs. i see a lot of houses down. it's not fair. it's not fair. it's not fair. >> families including americans like that man, wait at egypt's border, hoping to escape the hell that is gaza. as israeli troops amass for the expected gaza invasion. also tonight, trump loses again. as judge tanya chutkan slaps a partial gag order on him, limiting the vile that he's allowed to spew. >> plus, jim jordan has never passed a single piece of legislation, and john boehner calls him a legislative terrorist, yet, jordan appears to be on the verge of becoming the next republican speaker.

but we begin tonight with israel and gaza on the brink. thousands of israeli forces continue to amass on the gaza border in the wake of the deadly terrorist attack by hamas more than a week ago. approximately 2,000 u.s. troops have been told to prepare for possible deployment in the middle east if given orders. they will go to a nearby country to be prepared to support israel. these troops have not yet been activated and the u.s. government insists it does not mean american boots on the ground. the number of americans killed in the hamas attack is at least 29. israeli defense forces updated the number of people being held hostage by hamas to 199. the military wing of hamas claimed to be holding between 200 and 250 hostages. in tel aviv today, secretary of state antony blinken was warned by israel's defense minister that the upcoming war would be,

quote, long and the price for peace, quote, high. that israel would win. blinken later met for more than six hours with prime minister netanyahu and his war cabinet, that followed visits to five gulf arab states and egypt over the weekend. it appears the rafah crossing from gaza to egypt would be opening today, allowing humanitarian aid in and thousands of dual nationality palestinians to leave. however, that crossing remains closed. u.n. officials have told reporters that civilians in gaza are drinking sea water because clean water has run out. and that the entire health system in gaza has collapsed, with acute shortages of body bags, pain medication, and power generation. the u.n. aid chief is set to travel to egypt on tuesday, and also plans to visit israel. the u.n., w.h.o., and world food program are ready to deploy

assistance. president biden canceled a planned trip to colorado this morning so he and vice president harris could receive a briefing from their national security team on the conflict. and to hold calls with the leaders of egypt, iraq, and germany. biden, who is said to be considering a trip to israel in the coming days, spent the weekend urging calm and warning it would be a mistake for israel to reoccupy gaza. >> hamas and the extreme elements of hamas don't represent all of palestinian people. and i think that it would be a mistake to -- for israel to occupy gaza again. >> do you believe that hamas must be eliminated entirely? >> yes, i do. but there needs to be a palestinian authority. there needs to be a path to a palestinian state. >> meanwhile, israelis across

the political spectrum are seething at the netanyahu government for what happened more than a week ago. a prominent israeli host accused netanyahu of being a war criminal for his security failures. late this afternoon, the spokesperson for the military wing of hamas issued a statement saying that hamas would release foreign prisoners, quote, if the necessary conditions are available for that. he said hamas militants had taken a number of people of different nationalities hostage without having, quote, the opportunity to verify their identities. a former hamas official called for the release of the roughly 6,000 palestinians in israeli prisons in exchange for the israeli hostages who include infants, toddlers, and elderly people. let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent josh lederman in israel. please give us the latest from there. >> reporter: joy, for people who are trapped in humanitarian

crisis that is the gaza strip, today was supposed to be a day when maybe things would get a little bit better. today was the day that we were told as of last night by the palestinian representative present at the rafah border crossing between the gaza strip and egypt that there was a deal in place and that 9:00 a.m. today, there was going to be an opportunity for foreign palestinian nationals who are in the gaza strip to cross over the border into egypt, and for humanitarian aid to go into the gaza strip to deal with the exact kinds of issues that you were talking about, the lack of food, water, medicine, medical supplies. yet that time came and went, and things were not going in, and people were not going out. and one of the reasons, we learned, was both hamas and israel said in fact there was no deal in place for the kind of cease-fire, the kind of cessation of air strikes that would be needed to carry that out safely. so that was a real blow to hopes

that perhaps the humanitarian aspect of this could be somewhat ameliorated even as we're awaiting this expected israeli ground incursion into gaza. and as we are hearing more and more reports about the desperation coming out of the gaza strip, this is really setting the stage for that potential visit that you mentioned from president biden here to israel. u.s. officials tell me that biden is strongly considering that trip as early as this week, and that officials are already on the ground here in israel making the preparations for that visit. but this is going to be very complicated and difficult, eving aside the security implications of bringing the president of the united states to a country that is now at war, where there's so much uncertainty. there are all kinds of political optics around actions that the israeli military might take while president biden was on the ground here that could look like

the u.s. was green lighting some type of israeli activity as well as what concessions the u.s. might have been able to get from israel in exchange for granting this visit that netanyahu had requested. >> nbc's josh lederman, thank you. thank you very much. please stay safe. >> joining me now is daniel levy, who has served as an israeli negotiator during the israel/palestine peace talks, and an executive vice president of the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. thank you both for being here. mr. levy, i want to start with you. just to go back a little bit, you heard josh's reporting, but i was very interested in having you respond to the conversation that's happening inside of israel in which prime minister netanyahu is under some pretty sharp criticism from his own people for his handling of

things and for the intelligence failure and presumably at least in some quarters for what is happening in gaza. what deyou make of that conversation that's happening? >> well, it's a very important variable in how this plays out, joy, because i think prime minister netanyahu is curbing his enthusiasm for the morning after whenever this military escalation ends, because that is when the accounting will begin really in earnest for what happened on october 7th, this huge systemic deterrence, intel, military failure heaped on years, i would argue, of mishandling the entire situation. netanyahu knows that when that happens, it's really a fool's errand to eulogize politically benjamin netanyahu, he's the comeback king, he's been around for so long, but i think when that happens, netanyahu is going

to be in a hard spot. that means i think netanyahu, who has been a little risk averse militarily, despite all his bad politics in other ways over the years, i think he has the incentive to not reach that morning after. i think that means this american and other efforts to try to pull this back from the brink are really going to have to be redoubled and they might require working quite deftly with other elements inside the israeli cabinet, inside the israeli security establishment, right now, they're unified but you're going to have to probably tease out differences between them. >> let me bring you in and ask about the american angle of this. because to add to what mr. levy has said, you have now got the american president who came out with full throated support for the israeli government initially. he softened his tone somewhat and is talking more about the idea of some kind of reproachment. what do you make of his role and

the prospect of a potential visit? what do you think that then adds to the situation? >> i think you're quite right that the president has focused primarily on showing tremendous support for israel. in the last 48 hours, we have seen an increase in the language of trying to couch everything in terms of international law. but what we're not seeing is very clear statements that say that israel, despite the fact it obviously has a right to defend itself, its defense nevertheless has to be within the confines of international law. we have seen the president use the term international law in the same passage, but not in the sense of strongly publicly requiring israel to abide by that. i fear that the absence of stronger language is going to be problematic because it's not going to be sufficient to deter the israelis and the request or the effort by the united states to make sure that the iranians and hezbollah doesn't get involved in this cannot work if

it's only based on the deterrence against them without seeking restraint on the israeli side. >> and then to add to that, daniel, there is a hostage situation. to all that both of you have talked about. i want to play for you lester holt of nbc news did an interview with a hamas hostage negotiator. and he's from the international communities organization. let me play a little clip of that interview. >> what is the low hanging fruit in terms of a deal that could be made? >> right, this is what i have been putting forth since sunday or monday. there are 43 palestinian women in israeli prison. there are 190 minors. people 15, 16, 17-year-olds that are defined as minors. to the best of my knowledge, they're all from the west bank. to the best of my knowledge, none of them have murders israelis. that's the low hanging fruit of

what israel has to offer hamas for them to claim something in exchange for women, children, elderly, and sick. that's the humanitarian part of this. we could add civilians in general, but i know hamas treats all the young men as soldiers whether they're soldiers or not. >> daniel, can you envision benj nn netanyahu making that kind of deal? >> well, another development today has been that hamas' release of the first video footage of one of to israelis being held in gaza with the permission of the family, apparently. if this can come forward as a more prominent part of the conversation, you just today have the confirmation of the number of israelis held, what we need first of all is for those people to let go. i do think what we just heard about the prospect of a prisoner exchange is more likely than simply a release, although hamas has spoken of a release of foreign nationals.

if we can get that dynamic moving, if we can get the dynamic of humanitarian assistance getting in, and therefore just be on the beginnings of a deescalatory cycle, that may be a way that starts to pull back and addresses the very issue of the people being held because right now, the path down the abyss is not going to bring security for israelis and of course it's going to bring huge suffering for palestinians. and if president biden goes, the way this discourse is going that's really dehumanizing, i would urge the president when he wraps his arms around the israelis, shows empathy, speaks to their humanity, he does not commit the sin of a mission of forgetting the humanity and to show empathy to what's happening to the palestinians right now as well. we need to get on that deescalatory path and talk of a prisoner swap of letting prisoners go could be part of that. >> and the last question to you. talk about being unhelpful.

lindsey graham, united states senator, has threatened u.s. war with iran. he said if hezbollah launches an attack on israel, he said if you escalate the war, we're coming for you. a senator cannot commit the united states to war, but that's the way lindsey graham is talking. that cannot be helpful. >> well, i hardly know of any situation in which lindsey graham's response is not to go to war with iran. that seems to be his standard response to everything. it is a really dangerous situation. part of the reason why i think it's important for the united states to also ask for restraint from the israeli side is precisely if this ends up becoming a larger regional war and the iranians get dragged in, there will be tremendous pressure on biden to enter militarily in the conflict. then we're suddenly in yet another unnecessarily and senseless war in the middle east. and the united states cannot afford that. in the midst of the crisis in

ukraine, in the midst of a potential crisis with china over taiwan, that's why the de-escalation and cease-fire measures are so important. >> please come back, i really enjoyed talking with you. it's been very illuminating for our audience. up next on the "the reidout," the violence in the middle east spills over into the u.s. as an illinois man is charged with stabbing a 6-year-old boy to death in an alleged anti-muslim hate crime. "the reidout" continues after this. (aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo.

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. the debate over the hamas attack and israel's retaliation in gaza is a deeply divided one here in the u.s. fraught with intense clashes, pain, and generational trauma. it's a debate that in some loud corners of the country, are reverting to post 9/11 tropes, islamophoia and anti-semitism. the hate has consequences and they're brutal and tragic.

on saturday, wadea al fayoume, a 6-year-old palestinian american boy, was stabbed 26 times by his landlord in his illinois home. the landlord also stabbed the child's mother more than a dozen times, though she is expected to survive. detectives were able to determine that both victims were targeted because they were muslim and due to the current conflict involving hamas and the israelis. threats and threatening language are rising against both muslim and jewish communities. on sunday, fbi director christopher wray said there is an increase in reported threats inside the u.s. amid the war. jews and muslim alike as well as their institutions and houses of worship have been threatened. joining me is mehdi hasan, host of the mehdi hasan show, and elle goldberg, columnist for "the new york times." her latest piece, the massacre in israel and the need for a decent left, touches upon these complexities. and she writes about the progressive jewish community,

quote,hese are jews who share the left's abhorrence of the occupation of gaza and of the enormities inflicted upon it, which are only going to get worse if and when israel invades. the way keyboard radicals have condoned war crimes against israelis have left many progressive jews alienated from political communities they thought were their own. a great duo to speak with today. so i want to come back to that column and sit with that column for a moment because it is excellent. i hope everyone reads it. i want to get back for a moment to the 6-year-old boy, mehdi. i want to play the dad, and this is what he had to say. oh, okay. actually, it's not translated. i'm going to read the translated version. i'm going to tell you what he said. i'm here because i'm the father of the boy, not because i'm a political person or religious

person or anything. i'm here as the father of a child whose rights were taken from him. the it issue of hamas and gaza are world issues not pertaining to individual countries. i'm not big enough to speak of these things and i hope my son can be a means where this issue can be fixed. mehdi, talk about it a moment. it does feel in some ways like we're in a post-9/11 moment. your thoughts on that and on the way the discourse has been unfolding. >> in some ways worse than post-9/11 because you have hate crimes against both communities. you have hate in some ways imported from the middle east into the united states against minority communities, and it's heartbreaking to hear a 6-year-old boy is killed in the chicago area because of a foreign conflict, because of hate that arises out of a foreign conflict. this is a family, joy, that fled from the west bank, fled from the occupied palestinian territory over a decade ago to get away from violence there and they lost their son in the united states of america in 2023.

it's absolutely horrific. and you have to ask the question, who wakes up in the morning and thinks, i'm going to kill a kid today? i'm not just going to kill a kid, i'm going to stab the kid to death. i'm not just going to stab them once or twice. stab them 26 times. a 6-year-old boy. what kind of hate makes someone do that? it's not hate you're born with, joy. it's hate you're taught. and i do not believe it was a coincidence that nbc news is reporting toon that this alleged killer was an avid listener of conservative talk radio. we have heard some vicious and vile anti-palestinian rhetoric in recent days from people like tom cotton, republican senator, saying as far as he's concerned, israel can bounce rubble in gaza. lindsey graham saying israel should level gaza. ron desantis saying everyone in gaza is an anti-semite and shouldn't be allowed into america. marjorie taylor greene saying if you're pro-palestinian, you're

pro-hamas. that's the kind of dehumanizing rhetoric, some would say genocidal, what does it mean to level an area where 2 million people live? that is the kind of rhetoric that prompts people to act of terror. rhetoric leads to hate. hate leads to violence. >> indeed, and i mean, i think, michelle, your piece, to pick up on that point, you know, for the jewish community, who paraglides into a concert full of kids just listening to people and start killing people, or kidnaps an elderly peace activist? there is a sense i think for a lot of, you know, jewish americans or jewish folks who are watching this happen of oh, my god, this pain is so raw. and yet we're now sort of also trying to encapsulate the pain of 2 million people in gaza, and it's sort of all happening. i feel like you boiled it down so well in your column. i want to allow you to say more. >> i appreciate that and i find

those pictures of that boy so gutting. and i think that what we're seeing right now is it's not necessarily parallel or analogous bought whauz you're seeing on the left, they don't have representation in congress. these aren't people with political power. they might be people who have intellectual and cultural power and it has been very, very painful for a lot of progressive jews to see both online and in real life at certain demonstrations that people using, for example, the paraglider as a meme. people talking about these attacks as acts of anti-colonial liberation. and what i think is important to realize is this is really the mirror image of the most hawkish and aggressive israeli arguments. the idea that kind of there is no such thing as a civilian in this conflict, the idea that people -- the kind of evil of a group's leaders justify violence

against them. and victimization, which both sides on this conflict have in incomprehensible amounts. that victimization licenses savagery, because of what israel has gone through, anything they do in gaza is justified. that's the mirror image of the idea that because of what gaza has gone through these massacres are justified. and you know, i think mehdi is absolutely right about the language coming from both voices on the american right, you know, he spoke about some of the things we have various senators who have said, i think it's important to note that line from tom cotton about bouncing the rubble, that is a reference to a churchill quote about nuclear weapons. that is, he's really kind of talking about something truly horrific and exterminationist, frankly. you also have this language coming from the israeli right,

which has left many palestinians not just in gaza but in israel proper and in the west bank terrified, fearing expulsion, fearing attack. and i think that americans, it's so -- i think most american jews are in a very raw place because this assault brings up memories of genocide. and it's unfair that people should be called when they're grieving this thing that happened to their own community to try to defend another community, but i think that for everyone's sake, that's what's really necessary right now. >> yeah, and you know, mehdi, i think about the sort of ironies having covered a lot of ron desantis, somebody howling about george soros not that long ago, which is an aten semitic meme, and there were nazis marching in florida. he didn't have a ton to say about that. people like marjorie taylor

greene, they have been in, you know, events with neonazis. it is a bit ironic politically, but it is -- that is their politics now. it's irony. the politics of irony. >> ron desantis, you know, is a walking poster for hypocrisy, we know that. i would say this, look, i have spent many years on this network talking about the right's descent into white supremacy, but when it comes to the middle east conflict, there's bigotry on both sides. some of the left, some of the liberal and democrats have been very vicious in their anti-palestinian rhetoric, as have the right. similarly, as michelle points out, there are right wingers who are anti-semitic and also a lot of people on the left who said outrageous things about jews in recent days. that poster from blm chicago, which thankfully they have apologized for, which is the paraglider saying i stand with palestine with the hamas paraglider. i came on this network the day after the attack and said to

supporters of israel, please don't conflate gaza with hamas. i have to find myself on msnbc now saying to critics of israel and supporters of the palestinians, don't conflate hamas with palestinians or with gaza. i would say, this isn't as complicated as people think. we can all agree, kids, off limits. we can all agree you can support the people of gaza and also condemn horrific crimes against people at a concert. this isn't that complicated. >> yeah. it isn't, i will note that blm chapter is disavowed by the national black lives matter association. they're not connected at all. quick final word to you, michelle. what can we do differently in our dialogue to be more helpful? >> i think people have to remember that these are human beings. there is so much dehumanization, and people, it's very difficult for people to empathize when they are terrified. but i think that's what this moment calls on people to do.

>> yes. marginalized communities standing together always makes society stronger. mehdi and michelle, thank you both. this is an important dialogue. still ahead, trump is hit with another partial gag order in an attempt to stop his attacks on judges. we'll be right back.

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a major ruling today in donald trump's federal election

interference case. judge tanya chutkan issued a partial gag order on what trump is allowed to publicly say about the case. trump is no longer allowed to make or repost any statements targeting special counsel jack smith, his staff, their families, any courthouse staff or potential witnesses as it relates to the case. however, it is still fair game for trump to attack the biden administration and the justice department. judge chutkan defended her ruling saying, quote, i cannot imagine any other criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug. and i will not permit it here, simply because the defendant is running a political campaign, unquote. trump's campaign is calling the decision an absolute abomination and trump's attorneys say they plan to appeal. joining me now is paul butler, former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst. paul, any chance that this appeal will be successful given

the fact on truth social last night, donald trump was still attacking the special counsel and the judge? >> the appeal is almost certain to be a loser. this is a limited order that restricts trump from making public statements attacking witnesses and specific prosecutors and court staff. but it fulfills the legal requirement to be narrowly tailored. there's still plenty that trump can attack, including president biden, the justice department, and the residents of d.c. who will be his jurors. so the judge carefully threaded the needle. trump can still campaign and can even lie and say that the prosecution is politically motivated, but what he can't do is to threaten or incite or subvert the legal process. >> i will note that the judge did not include herself, even though a wan was arrested and charged with attempting to threatening to kill her after

trump said if you come after me, i'm coming after you quote. what do you make of her limiting the scope of it to disinclude herself? >> so she's being extra careful. she's preserving this opinion from any sort of judicial refute that might come up, but she also knows any defendant facing felony charges doesn't get to use all of the word. she brought up it's actually a crime for anybody, whether they're running for president or not, to use intimidation to influence a person's testimony. threats aren't protected by the first amendment. and joy, we should note that trump's first amendment argument is mainly based on his status as a presidential candidate, but the judge has said over and over again, she's not treating trump's day job differently from any other defendant's day job. and today, she also noted that a lot of the people who trump has attacked don't have anything to do with his presidential

campaign, including general mark milley, former attorney general barr, and the georgia secretary of state. >> and i will note now that donald trump now has two limited gag orders. one of them after he went after judge engoron's law clerk, so there's a limited gag order there as well. including giving out her personal information, her personal social media information. what kind of sanctions could these judges impose? >> so, the judge didn't say today what she will do if trump violates, but she did talk with the lawyers about the different remedies available to her. so she could call trump into her courtroom and verbally admonish him. she could fine him making him pay lots of money for every violation. judge chutkan can also sentence trump to home detention, meaning that he couldn't leave one of his residences before and during the trial, ultimately, the judge could lock trump up, which

probably would have already happened to any defendant who wasn't named donald trump, who went around talking about executing witnesses. >> i will note that there was one moment in which the judge, his lawyer, trump's lawyer asked that the current -- said the current conditions of trump's release are working, and she laughed saying she disagreed. what do you make of the fact she had to reiterate a remedy is not to push the trial until after the election? >> again, trump's lawyer said well, the real way that we could solve this whole dilemma is to have the trial after the election. but the judge was like, i said what i said about that. look, the trial date is in march, and i'm not revisiting that. she was very firm. she said that she thought that the lawyer was performing as much for donald trump as for the courtroom. but she says politics in the moment that the parties enter

her courtroom. >> paul butler, thank you as always, my friend. coming up, congressman jim jordan is gathering support for his bid to become the next speaker of the house. what this man lacks in legislative accomplishments he sure makes up for in yelling. more next. - this is jabra enhance select. it's more than just a hearing aid. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. with jabra enhance select's premium package, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's office. it starts with our free online hearing test. you can fine tune your settings with your remote audiology team. with jabra enhance select you can get the same advanced hearing aid technology and professional care you expect from a clinic at a fraction of the cost. try it risk free for 100 days.

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house republicans are getting closer to making a full-blown maga insurrectionist

the next speaker of the u.s. house of representatives. going on 13 days without a speaker with the escalating crisis in the middle east, and just 32 days until a potential government shutdown. the republicans' current nominee for speaker, jim jordan, and his allies spent the weekend lobbying holdouts in true maga fashion. using public bullying. "the new york times" reports that jordan's supporters posted the phone numbers of holdouts encouraging people to flood the capitol switchboard with calls demanding that they back jordan or face the wrath of conservative voters. fox is also joining in on the public pressure campaign for jordan. an axios reporter revealed that producers for sean hannity have been contacting jordan detractors. "the washington post" reported that hannity personally contacted at least one member. so far, the pressure campaign

appears to be working. jordan has picked up the endorsement of several key detractors today and sent a dear colleagues letter to republicans urging them to unite behind him. never mind that some of the victims of sexual abuse who say he turned a blind eye to their pleas while he was their wrestling coach at ohio state university, say he has absolutely no business being speaker of the house. another witness to jim jordan's character, former republican speaker john boehner, described him this way in 2021. >> you call some of these members political terrorists. >> oh, yeah. jim jordan especially. my colleague from ohio. i just never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart and never building anything. never putting anything together. >> that assessment is proven in jordan's legislative record or lack thereof. he hasn't been the lead sponsor of any bill that has become law

in his 16 years in congress. earning him a perennial low ranking from the nonprofit center for effective law making. which just two years ago ranked him 202nd out of the 205 that it examined. what he lacks in legislative accomplishments he definitely makes up for in yelling. spreading conspiracy theories and lies and defending donald trump. >> calling it an attack is like saying the sky is blue. of course it was an attack. we want to know the truth. the statement you sent out was a statement on benghazi and you say vicious behavior. >> we're going to have more witnesses like we had today that the democrats will parade in here and they're all going to say so-and-so said such and such to so-and-so, and therefore, we got to impeach the president. >> when americans get their first amendment liberties back. >> i think you're making this a

personal thing and it isn't. >> it's not a personal thing. >> you are. that is exactly what you're doing. >> there's one investigation protecting president biden. there's another one attacking president trump. justice department has both sides of the equation covered. >> there's also jim jordan's role in helping trump mount a coup. from his texts with mark meadows about how pence could overturn the election, his ten-minute conversation with trump on the day of the attack, his request for a presidential pardon, and the fact that he refused to cooperate with the january 6th committee. the irony being that republicans now want to give the gavel to someone who demonstrated his contempt for the u.s. house of representatives by ignoring numerous house subpoenas. definitely the wildest character in recent politics and a new low in the history of the institution. i'll talk about it with former republican congressman david jolly next.

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liz cheney, daughter of dick cheney, recently gave the stark warning about house republicans likely next speaker. >> jim jordan new more about what donald trump had planned for january 6th than any other member of the house of representatives. the person who knew, there probably more than just jim, but there are a handful of people of which he was the leader who knew what donald trump had planned. now, somebody needs to ask jim jordan, why didn't you report to the capitol police what you knew donald trump had planned? you are in those meetings at the white house. and if the republicans decide that jim jordan should be the speaker of the house, there will no longer be any possible way to argue that a group of

elected republicans could be counted on to defend the constitution. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst david jolly, former republican congressman who is no longer affiliated with that party. david, my friend, i want to read to you what michael phenone, former metro police officer who responded to the capitol that day, wasn't even supposed to be working at the capitol, and was injured and nearly killed by insurrectionists. this was his statement today on jim jordan. jim jordan is an insurrectionist who has no place being second in line to the presidency. i witnessed the deadly assault on our democracy with my own eyes, which is why it absolutely disgusts me that extreme republicans could choose an insurrectionist and election denier as their leader. someone who knew about january 6th ahead of time, yet did nothing to stop it. this is a very dark day for our democracy and should serve as a wake up call to all americans that we can never take our democracy for granted.

i just want to get your thoughts, and allow you to elaborate on what michael fanone and liz cheney had to say. >> i think the words of officer fanone and liz cheney are small somber, and they're somber for a reason. because the house of representatives may elect to someone who -- we have to put into context this moment, because it's not as low mccarthy was anybody. mccarthy was the one who covered for donald trump after january 6th, who stood up the impeachment of joe biden, who gave jordan the speaker's gavel, and who would only -- joe biden. this is not too far of a move from mccarthy to jordan. what's different is some of the specific activities of jordan and the tactics of jordan. but what we know today is that the republican caucus remains an insurrection caucus, regardless of who the speaker is.

certainly, you could say jordan's tactics feel and look more dangerous. will he be more successful? i don't know. the numbers are still the numbers going up against houston migrants under jeffries, the leader schumer, and joe biden in the white house. but certainly a dark day should we see jim jordan elevated to the speakership. >> you know, and the sense, and almost feels karmic that republicans would be down to someone who asked donald trump for a pardon, because he must've believed that his role in the insurrection was potentially criminal. and somebody who defied subpoenas. the fact that that is the quality and character of person that republicans think, yeah, this should be our leader, to me, it says something so devastating about one of our two great political parties, that you almost can't come back from that, right? where did they go from here? >> joy, i think the feeling with speaker jordan is that we really feel the fact now that donald trump has taken over the house of representatives.

you felt that with mccarthy, but mccarthy did it with a smile. jim jordan does it with a scowl. should he be elevated to speaker -- matt gaetz. -- however reviled he is. there's been some hope, and maybe house moderates or traditional republicans, whatever you want to call them, will stand up against jordan. but right now, to have 55 knows 48 hours ago, and it looks like all those nose are nothing but a bunch of susan collins, about ready to hand the speakership too jim jordan. >> and the fact that the moderates who have numbers are just so cowardly also says something about the party. let me ask you about the other thing. let me put up the last five house speaker. it was kevin mccarthy, who is 15 votes and didn't make it. paul ryan, john boehner, denys hastert. also newt gingrich, who obviously went down with the scandal and lost a disappointing midterm. dennis was accused of child molestation.

child molestations! that's in their recent history. and yet, there are members of the ohio state wrestling alumni who believe eight people said that doctor richard stressed his behavior was an open secret. he was a child molester. it was an open secret in the athletic department, and jim jordan must have known. those are the former wrestlers. mike turner of ohio says he doesn't think that's a big deal. but they do think it's a big deal. hbo's gonna do a documentary on this. it's gonna come out. it's gonna be in a documentary produced by george clooney. what do you think it'll due to republicans vibe to have their speaker on hbo being exposed as somebody who stood there, stood aside, while young men were molested? allegedly. >> probably nothing. and you're exactly right to draw the thread from dennis hastert to this. why republicans would ever -- [inaudible] spoken out about what jim jordan must have known about those incidents, it's day for the republican party.

and you know, what i think about in this moment i'm not the rabid matt gaetz and jim jordan's who are making this work, but similar to the kevin mccarthy moment, where he gave everything away to the 15 rebels, i think about the 200 that went along with it. 200 in january that said to kevin, okay, we'll let you bring the place down, go ahead. the people who are gonna elevate jim jordan tomorrow, i think about the 200 -- america doesn't really know their name, that are supposed to be the main street once. and now or finding out is that jim jordan it's gonna be a trojan horse candidate for the right. >> i'm with michael fanone, and i am with david jolly on this. this is a dark day, and it is a sad moment for our country that this is where we are. david jolly, thank you. and that is tonight's read out. inside with jen psaki starts now. inside with jen psaki starts now.