want happen, which is why i think we've seen people coalesce around jordan in a surprisingly quick way. >> jackie, give us a 20-second answer. if it ends up being some coalition, could it be mchenry, the current, temporary speaker. >> that seeks like the most likely and obvious choice. he is someone who is respected across the aisle. last night, he was extremely mum. he's become very good at avoiding all of our questions. he is anticipating a speaker jordan. make no mistake, he has accumulated power in his quie way, and is someone who, i think, democrats could see in that position and republicans, as well. >> we'll have complete coverage of the vote currently slated for noon eastern. congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany, thank you, as always. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now.

on wednesday, president biden will visit israel. he's coming here at a critical moment for israel, for the region, and for the world. the president will reaffirm the united states' solidarity with israel and our ironclad commitment to its security. israel has the right and, indeed, the duty, to defend its people from hamas and other terrorists, and to prevent future attacks. the president will hear from israel how it will conduct the operations in a way that minimizes civilian casualties and allows humanitarian assistance to flow to citizens in gaza in a way that does not benefit hamas. >> u.s. secretary of state antony blinken announcing president biden's trip to israel ahead of that country's looming ground offensive into gaza. the visit will come amid a growing humanitarian crisis in the territory and desperate efforts to get civilians out of the war zone. we'll go through all of that and get a live report from the israel-gaza border in just a

moment. >> willie, of course, there is a desperate effort to try to get the palestinians out of the war zone. a desperate effort internationally from the united states, from the israelis, trying to get them out of the war zone. of course, the united states working as hard as they can to try to pressure egypt to have that crossing into egypt from gaza. right now, they're still pushing back. you know, "the wall street journal" editorial page puts it best when they talk about, palestinian lives matter, except to hamas. you have the entire world community trying to get the palestinians out of harm's way, and you have hamas leaders sitting in resort hotels in qatar and four seasons, holding press conferences, ordering hamas fighters to keep palestinians who want to flee with their families, to keep them in north gaza. literally, everybody is trying to get the palestinians out of

the coming war zone except for hamas, who as we heard yesterday, have started to set up blockades to keep innocent civilians in the war zone who are trying to flee. and who, of course, are trying to fight efforts by the united states and others to open up the safe corridor into egypt for temporary settlements so they can be safe with their families while the war between israel and hamas is going on. >> reports, in fact, hamas is intercepting what little u.n. aid is there on the ground. any humanitarian aid, destroying some of it or keeping it from the people of gaza, as well, who are trying to survive in what is a humanitarian crisis. secretary of state blinken has been up almost literally 24 hours a day, shuttling between middle eastern countries and trying to prevail upon egypt, israel, and others, to open up that corridor and get some people out of there. they're talking about opening safe zones within gaza where israel would not strike.

yes, the world community is scrambling to protect the citizens of gaza, the civilians of gaza, that is, ahead of what is expected to be a massive operation from the israeli military. >> again, the question that needs to be answered from arab countries that love to put out press releases saying how much they support the palestinian causes, why don't you actually support the palestinians? >> right. >> why is it you won't bring some palestinians in as refugees temporarily? reassure them their right to return, but take care of it. the ugly secret, unfortunately, throughout the arab world is, arab countries want no part of the palestinians. they want no part of hamas. they are actually fighting against us, against the united states of america, as tony blinken is going around trying to get arab countries to help these palestinian refugees out, to step up with funding. what about -- i have a great idea. what about kuwait?

it seems to me the united states gave and gave and gave to the government of kuwait and the people of kuwait. they're doing nothing in return, absolutely nothing. you look at egypt. egypt wants no part of it. they get billions of dollars in aid from the united states every year, aid from the united states every year, and they won't even open up the corridor because they don't want palestinians in their country. again, a lot of hypocrisy. right now, who are the people who are suffering? it's the palestinian people. yes -- >> just like israeli children, babies, all hanging in the balance. >> right. >> being used, really. >> being used in these arab countries, these sunni arab countries, again, who are making peace with israel. >> right. >> but never made peace with the palestinians as part of that process, mika. the incredible thing is, they won't help. so here we have tony blinken running around all the middle east, asking arab countries to

help us help the palestinians, and they're refusing. for some reason, nobody ever tells that story. it needs to be told. >> the president, of course, is headed back. we'll get to who is going to be the speaker of the house, because we don't have one. and trump got a gag order. we'll get to that. let's stay on this, willie. >> let's go to the border, israel and hamas. chief foreign correspondent richard engel is there this morning. richard, pick up on the point joe was making, the efforts by secretary blinken, scrambling across since, seven countries, trying to get them on board with the humanitarian crisis, with doing something to aid the people of gaza. where does that stand right now, and how likely, in your long experience in the middle east, is it the middle eastern countries would help in that effort? >> reporter: good morning. so many diplomatic efforts under way right now. first of all, on that potential

safe zone in gaza, diplomatic efforts are under way. u.s. officials say they are working on it. they haven't discussed any specifics because they're trying to figure out how that aid would get in, where it would go, how it would be distributed, who would be responsible, and how to make sure it doesn't end up in the hands of hamas and not getting to the palestinian people. do i think it will happen? it is very possible that it will happen. there is a lot of pressure on hamas, a lot of pressure on israel to allow some aid to get in there. many arab states have been accusing israel of carrying out a policy of collective punishment by sealing off the entire gaza strip and not allowing in electricity, food, medicine, and other supplies. that is only one part of the diplomatic push that president biden will also now be engaged in personally when he comes here, comes to this country tomorrow. the other is this ongoing effort to free the hostages.

there was a development yesterday. it came from hamas. it is still tentative, but it is potentially a game-changer. the main spokesman for the military wing of hamas gave a statement through hamas' regular verified channels in arabic, saying hamas has 200 hostages. the group said that other palestinian factions inside gaza have around 50 or more than 50 other hostages, so bringing the total number of hostages inside the gaza strip to 250 plus. hamas says of the 200 that its military wing is holding, it has verified their identities and is holding an unspecified number of foreign nationals, and it is willing to let them go. it says they were taken during its raids into israel, when it went on a killing and kidnapping spree, didn't check their identities at the time, but the

foreigners are not part of its conflict with israel, that it has no issue with them, and that it will let them go when, quote, field conditions are right. now, what exactly that means is unclear, but iran, which backs hamas, has said that hamas is willing to let hostages go if israeli air strikes on the gaza strip continue. that is another potential development. there's work getting humanitarian aid in. then, of course, there is the looming military action, the israeli air strikes into gaza are still continuing. i will say, over the last 24 hours or so, they do seem to have slowed down. there are still air strikes but they are not as ferocious as we saw over the last -- over the first few days of this conflict. >> richard, since october 7th, obviously, our impression, the world's impression of israel is this fearsome fighting military machine has been severely

damaged. its reputation damaged. i'm curious, we're hearing about the hundreds of fighters that are coming in now, the reservists that are coming back in. do you get a sense that israel is once again feeling confident that their defense, their military can actually defend the people, or are they still shattered by the events of october 7th? are they still questioning whether benjamin netanyahu and this coalition government can do the job? >> reporter: all of those things are true. the israelis right now are angry, but they are also nervous. they are nervous at how they could have missed this. they are nervous for what hamas may have in store for gaza. but they say, and if you ask israelis they say, "yes, we were caught sleeping. we made a mistake." there is anger directed at the netanyahu government and at netanyahu personally, but israelis are saying, now they've

mobilized. they're not sleeping anymore, and they are on a mission as a nation to destroy hamas. that is the collective goal here, and i think everyone feels it is something that is necessary. the question is, how do you do that? do you send the 300,000 plus reservists into gaza in some sort of blitzkrieg? do you carry it out through targeted raids, potentially in coordination with the united states and other countries? do you do a combination of the two? do you send in some troops to block off parts of the gaza strip while raids continue and negotiations continue? it is an enormously delicate time, and that's just in the gaza strip. this conflict has already spread beyond gaza. it's important to think about this as what's described as the axis of resistance here. that is iran and its proxies, and its proxies are hamas and hezbollah. hamas is clearly mobilized.

hezbollah is mobilizing. there have been strikes carried out by hezbollah against israeli troops along the border. israel has evacuated some border communities. then iran has issued vague threats in the last 24 hours that it might carry out preemptive strikes if israel's attack on gaza continues. so there are many signs that there could be some diplomatic progress with the potential opening of a safe corridor or a safe zone. some movement. the first time ever we're hearing any movement regarding the hostages. but the new threats from iran and hezbollah all do not bode well. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, thank you very much for your reporting on the scene. joining us no nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, the most of "way too early." >> keir, headline in the "wall

street journal," top of the page, "war shifts global dynamics." suddenly, you see a connection between hamas. you can draw a straight line to iran. from iran, draw a straight line to russia. from russia, you can draw a straight line to china. not saying they were all coordinated in this, just simply saying this "wall street journal" article states that this is actually a big win for russia. the fact the united states is going to be drawn in is something that russia is celebrating right now. >> joe, let's describe nit a different way. we live in a different world from when, for example, the u.s. invaded iraq all those years ago. dismiss the united nations, but it gives us a window into the way the world looks right now. the security council met last night. there was a russian draft which condemned all violence and hostilities directed at civilians and acts of terrorism, and the draft never mentioned

hamas. thomas greenfield saying at that session, by failing to mention hamas, it is a group that terrorizes citizens. it is outrageous. i'm told by a diplomat the u.s. didn't like a call for humanitarian pauses which condemns hostileiies against civilians but didn't talk about the acts for hamas. i'm told there was too much equivalence. it is notable, for example, that last night, the notes for that russian resolution, which didn't pass, included the united arab emirates. if you take the arab world, for example, polls very strong, deep polling suggests that, actually, the arab street's view of israel hasn't moved by more than a few percentage points since the abraham accords apparently improved relations. we're seeing russia and china,

as you mentioned, in lockstep. president putin meeting with president xi in china tomorrow. i thought one phrase from the chinese foreign minister, wang yi, after speaking with the secretary of state over the weekend was fascinating. he said, there is no way out through military means and using violence for violence will only create a vicious cycle. so, you're right, clearly, america needs as many allies for this as possible, so does israel. clearly, america's foes will enjoy any way in which the u.s. gets pulled into a quagmire or is seen to make a mistake. particularly, and let's talk again about the way the world has changed, particularly, for example, you know, what we call the global south. watching from the sidelines, forming opinions. again, another quote, and this is on the colomian president. you can say they don't have anything to do with this, but it is interesting what the president said. if we have to suspend foreign relations with israel, we'll

suspend them. we do not support genocides. what is happening here, beyond what is happening in the region, in israel and gaza itself, is the continuing battle for the hearts and minds of peoples and countries around the world by the u.s., by the west. this conflict is now part of that, guys. >> john, the president will visit, as we said, israel tomorrow. on this trip to tel-aviv. he has been unequivocal in his support. he made strong speeches last week. he'll go there now to stand shoulder to shoulder with prime minister benjamin netanyahu what do you expect behind the scenes? the solidarity is the public scene and important. what is he talking with the prime minister in private? >> let's start with the debate in the u.s., as to whether or not the president would make this trip. he has been publicly strong with supporting israel, but there was some concern about making this trip. it could inflame tensions in the region and provoke more attacks from hamas. it is a delicate security

situation there. yesterday, the secretary of state had to shelter multiple times because air-raid sirens were going off in tel-aviv. president biden went to ukraine in february, and they sent advance notice to russia saying, don't try again. they don't think hamas will listen like russia did. there's also a sense the president is doing benjamin netanyahu a domestic political figure. president biden is popular in israel right now, and netanyahu eager for the association. but they want to have the president show solidarity, but there's more than that. he is really going to push the idea of this gaza operation. they allow civilians to lead. there was timing here. the president wanted to make sure if he was to go to israel, it was before israel goes into gaza, to try to make that push to say, look, the civilians here, let's make sure as many of them get out as possible. part two of this is, after israel, he heads to jordan. he is going to meet with a

couple arab world leaders, particularly egypt. that is going to be a real focus, pushing president sisi to do egypt's part to let some of the palestinians escape gaza. >> keir, let's step back just a minute. i'd love to go through your last answer just for our viewers, our friends at home that are watching, to understand how the world is split. of course, we have the west. especially with the poland win by donald tusk's coalition, you have a unified west, unified europe, a unified america. whether you're talking about israel right now or whether you're talking about ukraine. you talked about the global south. we can go from columbia to the uae to, well, countries that are more not aligned right now. >> yeah. >> it is interesting. joe biden has been able to consolidate nato, but it is interesting, the very things you're saying about israel you

could say about ukraine. talk about that continued battle for the hearts, for the minds of the global south. >> yeah. i mean, clearly, it's an issue. no doubt that china and russia see that as a principal objective, to win over the global south as far as possible, because they consider that collective vote, if you like, to be an important one. then i would just say one thing, joe. you know, europeans may not be as united as we necessarily think. i mean, if you look at the past more than a week, they've struggled. they suspended aid to gaza and then reversed it. i'm told there was fury when ursula von der leyen went to israel and failed to have explicit calls for restraint.

it was on sunday night the 27 countries of europe united in a statement to say, "we strongly emphasize israel's right to defend itself, in line with humanitarian and international law." but also reiterate the importance of ensuring the protection of civilians. just think about the europeans who are worrying. one european diplomat said to me, that worrying about their local situation -- we just saw that alleged terror attack overnight in brussels -- they're worried about their situation. one european diplomat said to me, "we don't want to import this crisis." there's a lot of nervousness about how this plays out. if you talk about the arab world, it is understandable that arab leaders will have front of mind the view of the arab street. that hasn't gone away, despite the abraham accords. in terms of the global south, the message that china and russia consistently try to send -- you may think it is laughable -- they try to send the message that we're the

underdogs just like you. we're on your side. that, i think, is the danger. if that takes hold, that idea that the palestinians are the underdogs, this starts to turn the wrong way. that's part of the reason why you have president biden so concerned about the idea of an israeli occupation of gaza. >> nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, thank you for your analysis. we'll see you soon. when we're back in 60 seconds, we'll have the latest on the partial gag order imposed on donald trump in the federal election interference case against him. if he complains about it in front of a huge crowd, that's bad. what he can't say. another consequential day on capitol hill where republicans are expected to try yet again to agree on a house speaker. >> it looks like they may be agreeing on a house speaker at the center of january 6th. >> terrific. >> wow. >> we're back in 60 seconds.

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22 past the hour. former president donald trump cannot make disparaging remarks of prosecutors in his federal election interference case. that announced by judge tanya chutkan. prosecutors originally asked for a more comprehensive gag order, but judge chutkan refused to put restriction on trump's statements about washington, d.c., criticisms of the government, or the department of justice. she did impose a restriction on all parties, including trump banned from posting any statements targeting the special counsel or his staff, as well as court staff members or personnel. in her ruling, jud chutkan rejected trump's team's argument that he should be allowed toay what he wants because he is running for president.

quote, mr. trump can certainly claim he's being unfairly prosecuted, but i cannot imagine any other criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug, and i will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running a political campaign. trump responded at a campaign rally in iowa last night. >> they think the only way they can catch me is to stop me from speaking. they want to take away my voice. a judge gave a gag order today. did you hear that? on speech, which i believe is totally unconstitutional, what she did. a judge gave a gag order. the judge doesn't like me too much. her whole life is not liking me. >> trump says he will appeal the gag order ruling. let's bring in former u.s. attorney, senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. also with us, msnbc contributor, our buddy mike barnicle. former white house director of communications to president

obama, jennifer palmieri. co-host of the msnbc podcast, "how to win 2024." chuck, let's start right at the top there with something the former president said. gag orders are constitutional, are they not? >> they are if they are narrowly tailored, willie, and this one seems to be. i could imagine a gag order that goes too far. i could imagine a gag order that doesn't go far enough. i think judge chutkan here hit the happy middle. the harder question, though, is what happens when he almost inevitably violates the gag order? it is one thing to write one. judges are used to having criminal defendants in front of them, and they're used to having these defendants abide court orders. even criminals can conform their behavior in front of most federal judges. i think the harder question is, inevitably, when he violates the gag order, what next? >> chuck, let's take that speech last night, that event, for example. he specifically went after the judge, the gag order was about

the prosecutors themselves. where is the line on this? we know he won't be able to control himself up in front of a crowd. let's say he violates the gag order, goes after the prosecutor or witnesses in this federal case. this applies to the federal election case. what happens next? >> right. so a judge under those circumstances, willie, would have a bunch of options, but they're not easy to implement. she could reprimand him. he could re-issue the order and remind him of his obligations. that's the low end of the spectrum. she could fine him. she could even revoke his bond and imprison him, although that would introduce a host of logistical and technical difficulties because he has the secret service detail and is running for president. where on the spectrum she lands if he violates, i don't know. she may not know. we use the word unique a lot, and, frankly, i think it tends to be overused. this is unique.

she sees him as a defendant running for president. he thinks of himself as someone running for president who also happens to be a defendant. they're coming at it from very different directions. when he inevitably violates her order in some way, i think the hard question is, what does she do next? i don't know the answer. it's hard to imagine putting mr. trump, while he is a candidate running for president, in prison. >> yeah, but -- >> um -- go ahead. >> chuck, listen. let's make this simple. let's make this simple. i understand he is running for president. political speech is protected. i understand he has a right to campaign. she said he's even allowed to say the process is rigged if he wants to. at the same time, as the judge stated in her order, she cannot imagine any other trial where you would have a defendant allowed to run out calling

prosecutors thugs. i can't imagine any criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug, and i will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running for a political campaign. yes, this is unique. what is not unique is the fact that this is -- he is a criminal defendant. she's exactly right. he cannot. he cannot because no criminal defendant i've ever heard of has been able to attack members of the court, officers of the court, the way donald trump is. >> right. okay, so a couple of things are simple. you're right. he is a criminal defendant. she's right, the order she issued is narrowly tailored and designed to accomplish all those purposes you just explained. that said, what does she do when he violates it? i don't know there's other data points for us, frankly, joe. there aren't a lot of cases like this. i can't think of any. so, yeah, in some ways, it's

simple. he's a criminal defendant, and he has to abide her order. fine, good, got it. what happens when -- >> let me ask you. again, i'm sorry. he's running for president. that's awesome. under the united states of america, i mean, under our laws, we believe that nobody is above the law. what would happen if, in a case you were trying, any case that you were trying, where a criminal department is told, "don't call us thugs," then he holds a press conference and the defendant calls them thugs? i don't know where you practiced. where i practiced, the judge would call him back in, hold him in contempt of court, and he'd go to jail. >> if somebody violated a court order, the judge would haul them back in, maybe put them in jail, but they'd certainly sanction them. you and i agree on that, joe. there's a problem, though. it is much more difficult than that. i take it, you know, we all

ought to try to find the simple answer. i don't know that there is one. first of all, how do you put somebody with a secret service detail in prison? secondly, because the second amendment protects political speech, what is the line between political speech, valid criticism of mr. biden or the justice department, and speech that violates her order? i just don't know. maybe i'm not smart enough to figure out where that line clearly lies. >> i think you're extraordinarily smart. maybe it's just because i'm a simple country lawyer that fell off of a turnip truck outside of 30 rock, but it seems to me that you have -- they get called back in. you don't create one set of rules for donald trump. >> there's no ambiguity. >> and another set of rules for the other 330 million people. >> bring him back in. >> i understand it is a complicated issue and it has to be acted upon with nuance. if he continues to attack and

insult members of the court, i'm quite confident that john roberts' supreme court will rule with the judge, that there has to be an orderly procedure inside that courtroom if there is somebody constantly attacking the validity of the court and trying to undermine a federal judge and other officer of the court. i don't think the roberts court would see it, so long as it is tailored to the contours of actually running the case in a manageable, professional way. if he steps out of line, you sanction him. if he steps out of line, sanction him again. if he steps out of line the third time, every federal judge would throw him in jail. >> put an ankle bracelet on him and put him in mar-a-lago with his security detail. >> look, i don't think we're really saying something very different here. i agree with you, joe and mika. if he continues to flout a judge's order, and that order is narrowly tailored to ensure an

orderly proceeding in her courtroom, yeah, appellate court, supreme court, they're going to back her because judges have the right and the obligation, by the way, to run their court in an orderly and efficient manner. that's not the hard part. the hard part is determining what speech violates her order. let's say, as he did in iowa last night, that he criticizes the justice department or president biden. that seems to be fair game. if he goes after witnesses, that seems to be in violation of her order. it's almost inevitable, joe and mika, that he is going to do something like that. he's making money off of it. his polls are going up because of it. why wouldn't he? he's never shown an ability to conform his behavior. okay, at what point does she simply fine him? at what point does she find that he needs -- and mika is right, you know, maybe an ankle bracelet is an alternative to

imprisonment, incarceration ending trial, but i don't think these are easy decisions for any federal judge. i don't know what the triggering event will be. i just fear that there will be one. >> oh, chuck, there's no doubt about that. there is going to be one because of what we just saw in the clip coming in. every time this former president speaks, he says something to indict himself in one way or another during his ramblings. in the clip we showed coming into this segment, he actually said that the gag order, when he is explaining what the judge did to him by implementing the gag order, they think it's the only way they can catch me. the only way that they can catch me. in other words, he's done something wrong. so my question to you is, what do we do, never mind legally, what do we do as a country, as a culture, when we have a former president who nearly every time

he speaks indicts himself? >> yeah, it's interesting. look, first of all, mike, we indicted him. our country, our system of justice, the justice department has already indicted him. we don't need him to indict himself. he has been indicted in four different places on 91 felony counts. so the country, our system of justice has reacted properly to a former president who is a criminal. that process is actually working. i don't think people need to despair, that process in four different places, in two states, and in federal court, is actually working. i think a lot of what's incumbent upon us is how much attention we pay to this man. i think, frankly, it is far too much. i am heartened by the fact that prosecutors are doing their job in federal court out of new york and georgia. i'm heartened by fact that we have judges like judge chutkan

who are trying to administer justice in a fair and even-handed and efficient manner. i think these are good things, not bad things. sometimes i think we focus too much on what mr. trump says. i'm very happy to ignore it. i know the judge can't. i know the judge has to pay attention. i know she has to administer her court and this process, but i think we pay way too much i tension to what this man says. >> former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, always love having your expertise on this stuff. thanks so much for being here. jen, you've been out with "the circus," watching republican candidates talk about donald trump. yes, he has the massive lead in the primary. it has to be said, how small he's looked since the attack in israel began by hamas, criticizing netanyahu, publicly praising hezbollah as, quote, very smart, and also in the images we see there. his sitting at a defendant's table, being told to shut up, effectively, by a judge

yesterday. how is the primary shaping up as you get out in the field and listen to some of these other candidates talk about him? >> i went to a trump event in wolfboro, new hampshire, after the attacks. pretty buttoned up. talked about low income heating assistance. he talked about -- you know, lemire, energy is a big issue in new england. the whales came into play, we heard it the whales, but it was buttoned up on hamas. wednesday, after netanyahu said so many nice things about president biden, after we saw billboards in tel-aviv saying, "thank you, president biden," that is when he went unhinged. it did feel different with the republican candidates. i saw desantis in berlin. we covered nikki haley a lot. i talked to mike pence about this. they all sensed, like, something had changed after wednesday night, that this was more

serious, more unhinged, more reckless. whether they're in a position to do anything about it, i don't think any of them, you know, are -- they're pretty uncertain about that. >> yeah, it's a rare moment, though, when any of the republicans have dared take on trump. more than, i think, the reaction from the trump camp has been telling. this is a rare statement where they've really tried to walk it back. they've done a lot of damage. >> they did not double down as they always do. >> yeah. >> their hit on desantis was, his attack on me doesn't make sense. not that it was wrong, it was taken out of context. >> right. >> not that -- not doubling down on what trump said, trying to back off. >> precisely right. it's not that trump hasn't repeated those things, when it is almost like a tick, when something calls me out on something, he goes further. he hasn't. his campaign put out multiple statements trying to mitigate this. joe and mika, we'll see if it has an impact on the republican primary campaign. odds are it doesn't. but it is another moment to file

away for the general election next year. another moment, the combination of the statements about israel, this gag order, impending court dates, another moment that would make him not palaable for those who will decide the swing elections next year. >> look at jewish voters, some pro life voters. you have trump actually striking out against people that he once considered part of his base. he was critical of jewish voters after the election for not voting for him. >> could impact the primary. >> obviously, critical of pro life voters several times. it's fascinating. how will it impact the primary? maybe not significantly. but thing is for sure, these candidates are finally going after donald trump, and they're going after him hard. when we come back, we'll show you a chris christie commercial that he's just putting out today where he calls donald trump a fool four times. also coming up, congressman jim jordan's campaign for house

speaker appears to be building momentum. >> oh! >> ahead of -- >> just like january 6th when he was calling the president all the time, planning for the january 6th insurrection against the united states government. this is who republicans want to run the house? >> there will be a vote on the house floor later today. we'll have new reporting about where things stand on capitol hill. plus, we'll talk about the ongoing war efforts in both europe and the middle east with former cia director, retired u.s. army general david petraeus. "morning joe" will be right back. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment.

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live look at reagan national airport as the sun slowly comes up over washington. >> man, it is starting to feel

like fall, about 50 degrees right now in washington. >> crispy. 43 past the hour. here is the new ad that joe was talking about from a super pac supporting former new jersey governor chris christie. taking on former president donald trump over his recent comments praising hezbollah. >> as israel fights hamas in gaza, the south of israel, trading rocket fire with hezbollah. >> ties between hezbollah and iran are far greater and more organized. >> hezbollah is iran's most powerful armed group and committed to israel's destruction. >> hezbollah is very smart. >> he's a fool, only a fool would make those comments. only a fool would give comments that could give aid and comfort to israel's adversary. this is someone who cares not about the american people, not about the people of israel, but he cares about one person and one person only, the person he sees in the mirror when he wakes

up in the morning. we cannot once again nominate a fool like this and get him anywhere near the presidency of the united states. having a fool in donald trump, making the comments in the tone he made them, is proving to folks he has no idea being president of the united states. >> you know, mike barnicle, earlier this week, you talked about how we're coming up on the 40th anniversary, the commemoration, a very sad day, over 200 americans being blown up and killed by hezbollah. hezbollah continues their reign of terror. their targeting of our allies and americans. here, you have donald trump saying they're very smart, very, very smart people. just like he said it about president xi and kim jong-un. just like he said -- and he admitted, he admitted he got along better with authoritarians. chris christie saying what a lot of republican voters are thinking. it's about time that you have republican candidates that are

coming out and actually calling donald trump what he is. >> yeah. joe, that anniversary, by the way, is october 23rd. it is coming up. the marine corps barracks blown up by hezbollah. very smart people, according to the president. the interesting thing is root of why he says these things, and jonathan eluded to it. it is always about someone saying something positive about joe biden, something positive about how biden did something with netanyahu, about how biden did something positive for israel, and people in israel love president biden. it develops a tick in donald trump that he reverts to always himself. not to policy, not the dangers inherent in what is going on in israel, in the middle east right now, always about himself. i mean, it's a disease he carries. >> people who love trump through and through, that comment last week about hezbollah, they were like, oh, my god, hezbollah?

i just wonder if you think there's any impact. again, the lead is massive inside the primary. when you go out there, is there any exhaustion, eye rolling, anything else among the voters? >> i mean, i'm going to non-trump -- trump events and non-trump events. there is. at one desantis event, somebody spoke up to say, like, what are we going to do about this? why aren't you all taking him on more? you have to be more vocal. it's great you spoke out about this, but you have to be more vocal about the dangerous comments or none of you are going to win. they're trying to diffuse the bomb. even in the desantis room, saying anything negative about trump, you could feel the whole room tense up, like, oh, you better not do this, it's like, you can't, you know, take the bomb apart without having it blow up on you. i just don't, you know, see any -- you know, the candidates will tell you off camera, republicans are with this. they're really not with him.

you're like, ma'am, sir, i'm sorry, look at the polls. he's 40, 30 points up, even lowest margin is 30 points in iowa. what is the theory? >> yeah, it's not even close right now. there is, i mean, we still have a couple months left, never know what's going to happen. certainly looks like donald trump is moving toward the nomination, but we still have several months to go. take it a day at a time if you're a politician, and you keep knocking on doors and keep going to town hall meetings and keep hitting at the body. keep going to the body, pounding it out day in and day out. this chris christie ad, jonathan lemire, obviously is that. i want to, though, circle back to something that mike said that is really just remarkable. all you have to do to get donald trump to say something nice about a terrorist group that kills americans and kills

israelis is say something nice about joe biden. all you have to do is put up a billboard in tel-aviv that says, "thank you, mr. president," with a picture of joe biden there. have other israeli officials doing what officials of any country would do when the united states presents its strongest, most unambiguous support of israel -- >> resounding. >> -- that i think we have ever seen. all you have to do is that. and have the united states president, the president supporting israel, and israel thanking him, and, suddenly, donald trump melts down and starts complimenting hezbollah, a terror group that's on the cusp of invading israel. that is how twisted this guy is. i must say, what's a kind word?

>> there isn't one. >> how lost the republican base is for continuing to support a man this twisted, that he would praise hezbollah, china's communist leader, vladimir putin, and kim jong-un. >> yeah, it's reflexive for trump. if you say something nice about one of his opponents, he will do on the attack. i mean, benjamin netanyahu, while trump was in office, couldn't have tried to cozy up further to trump. yet, in trump's mind, netanyahu in recent months has done two unforgivable things. he acknowledged joe biden was lawfully elected and, in recent days, thanked joe biden for his support and saying he did a good work, good job in supporting israel after the hamas terrorist attacks. we've seen this from trump time and time again. whether it's biden or, before that, obama, who, in trump's comments recently, it seems like, at times, he is running against obama this time around. >> he's obsessed. >> by the way, if it is

biden/obama -- i mean, if it is trump/obama, i like trump's chances since obama constitutionally cannot run again. >> have you gotten insight? he once again confused biden with obama, said he was running against obama. have you talked to any of his people on the trump team? what do they say about the fact that he continues to think he's running against a guy that hasn't been able to run for president for over a decade? >> as you might imagine, they deflect and try to point at joe biden, his age. they try to change the conversation. there is an understanding, though, the people i've talked to, they're willing to acknowledge the former president, trump, is under a lot of pressure right now. i think the court cases are adding up. i think we can put two and two together and suggest that is playing a role here. to your point, joe, of how the republican base stays with him, you're right, there's still a long time before we see any

voters cast their ballots, but not all these candidates have a lot of time. they're starting to run out of money. tim scott's super pac suspended its spending. he's in real trouble. >> there is a thought he might not even make the next debate, which would be a problem. ron desantis' team also really short on cash right now. his burn rate is off the charts. a lot is spent on private jets for everyone involved, so that's a problem. haley has done okay. even with the momentum, she's 30, 40 points behind. mike pence, another one whose campaign is in debt. he may not make it much longer either. the field is going to narrow quickly here unless something changes fast. >> all right. we're going to get back to this, but let's get to the speaker situation. republican congressman jim jordan is trying to rally support ahead of a planned vote today on the house floor for speaker of the house, set to take place at noon eastern. republican sources tell nbc news

the ohio lawmaker is within five to ten republican votes of securing the 217 needed to win the speakership. "axios" reports at least four house republicans who jordan spoke with say they believe he'll allow a floor vote on linking ukraine funding with israel funding if he wins the gavel. but a spokesperson for jordan tells "axios" he did not make any specific promises. >> you know, what's so fascinating. >> geesh. >> what is fascinating about this, willie, is he was there on january 6th calling donald trump. he was there in the middle of all of this. there's that famous moment where liz cheney is trying to leave the chamber as the mob is coming. >> in realtime as it is happening. >> as the mob is trying to kill them. jim jordan tries to help her,

and she says to jim jordan, "get away from you, you f-ing did this." she said that in realtime, just like everybody else understood, he was in the middle of january 6th. >> it was obvious. >> he is a responsible party. i cannot believe that republicans from biden districts would vote for this guy that's so attached to try to overthrow american democracy. >> it just goes to show you how far this party has fallen. they're poised, and if it doesn't happen on the first vote or the first couple, it'll happen eventually, jim jordan republican the speaker of the house after representatives. not a passive observer on january 6th or the efforts around overturning the 2020 election. he was central to it. he was on the phone in the days before january 6th with rudy giuliani and the team that was scheming to overturn the election results. he texted on january 5th, white house chief of staff mark

meadows, offering a plan, a way that mike pence could, you know, hold up the results and not certify joe biden. he voted along with a bunch of other republicans in the to certify the results in a couple states. the list goes on and on and on. now, here we are, a guy who is helping to lead the idea that joe biden should be impeached, with this inquiry perhaps of things he did somehow being equal to what the former president did. that's where we are. congressional reporter for "the hill," mychael schnell. is this going to happen today? will jordan be the speaker of the house? >> right now, willie, the answer to the question is a coin toss. jim jordan picked up momentum in his bid for the speakership yesterday. he flipped four key holdouts and a number of lawmakers through their endorsement behind him, but he is not out of the woods yet. exiting a gop conference meeting last night, a handful of republicans by my count, at least six, plan to vote against

jim jordan on the floor today. they will not give jim jordan their support when the vote happens at noon. look, this will all become a math problem for jim jordan. he needs that 217 votes on the floor to clinch the gavel. there's some reporting that congressman gus will miss the first vote today at noon. jim jordan will only be able to lose three republican votes and still clinch the gavel, assuming that all other lawmakers are present, voting for a candidate, and democrats are fully in support of hakeem jeffries, which, of course, is widely expected to hand. right now, it'll be a photo finish for jim jordan when that vote hits the floor at noon today. he doesn't have the votes as things stand. >> talk, if you would, a little about these moderates who are in districts that joe biden won. thinking about people like mike lawler here in the state of new york, who are going to be put in the position to vote or not to vote for a man who is trying to

impeach joe biden, the man who won their districts, the man who participated in the attempted coup against the united states government in 2020. how difficult a vote is this, and how does jim jordan win their vote eventually? >> it is toying with two different ideas, willie. on one hand, this is a tough vote for those biden district republicans because jim jordan is a hard line conservative. he's the founding chairman of the conservative house freedom caucus. he has this history of being a bomb thrower in congress, forcing shutdowns. you mentioned his involvement with january 6th. that is a key concern for some of these biden district republicans. on the other hand, if they vote against him, they are letting this paralysis in the house continue, withholding support from jim jordan means he won't get the 217 needed. as a result, legislative business can't continue on the floor. congress can't work toward averting a shutdown or sending aid to israel. i spoke to the biden district

republicans yesterday, including mike lawler and don bacon, they're planning to support kevin mccarthy on the floor today for at least the first ballot, which goes to show, look, jim jordan is a difficult candidate for some of these biden district republicans to support. as a result, they're going in a different direction. >> it's set up to be a wild day on capitol hill. the first vote is scheduled for noon. congressional reporter for "the hill," mychael schnell. thanks, as always. when the january 6th committee was doing its work, it subpoenaed jim jordan and he refused to answer the subpoena and sit and talk about his role in the attempted coup. >> can't be said enough, his role on january 6th and how this election is far from certain today. white house obviously bracing for what could be a rocky road ahead if he were to be speaker. jen, let's pause it. he is a problematic candidate. most people think this is bad for america, that he'll be speaker. but potentially a political opportunity for democrats, looking to seize the house next year. >> speaker jim jordan, it's not

assuring a democratic house, but it is certainly the next step on the path to a democratic house. to have not just -- i mean, they've proven they can't govern, but also someone who was an architect of the strategy behind january 6th, as the republican speaker of the house presumably going to have as hard a time governing as mccarthy did. if we're headed for shutdowns, it is a pretty tough path for the republicans. >> jen palmieri, thank you very much for coming on this morning. still ahead, we're going to have another live report from on the ground in israel as president biden prepares to visit the u.s. ally tomorrow. plus, national security council spokesman, retired rear admiral john kirby joins the conversation. we'll talk to him about a potential deployment of u.s. troops to the middle east and much more. we're back in two minutes.

welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, october 17th. a live look at the capitol where there might be a vote at noon today to figure out whether or not the republicans can get it together and -- >> and get it together and elect somebody who tried to overthrow the united states government. >> and destroy that building. >> and destroy everything -- >> that beautiful building. >> -- mike barnicle, that building stands for. we are here now, where the republican party -- this is, this is just me as a conservative. >> full circle in a way. >> as conservatives always say, you think it can't get worse? oh, it can always get worse. you don't think it can get worse than russia after putin? oh, i most certainly assure you, it can get far worse. you don't think it can get worse in washington, d.c., with kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house? mike barnicle, we may be about

five hours away from the republican party selecting a guy -- >> j-6er. >> -- that conspired to overthrow the american government. yeah, it can always get worse. >> we're about five hours away from the election, if they do it, jim jordan as the next speaker of the house. a defining moment for the republican party this year. they are defining themselves and aligning themselves with a person who you just indicated did yeoman's work on trying to tip over the constitution of the united states on january 6th, did yeoman's work on trying to ignore the elected, the official results of an election, of a president of the united states, denial of the right of that incoming president to take office, a person who is going to preside over the house of represenve institution where he ignored a subpoena served upon him by the house of representatives. they're about to do all of that,

and that means the official end, sooner rather than later, of the republican party in the house of representatives, because the prediction would be jim jordan as speaker is going to guarantee that the house is going to be democratic come the next election. >> no doubt about it. willie geist, it's not like the republicans don't have an alternative. of course, they voted for two people in conference, then those two people got voted out, in part because a lot of people don't think jim jordan played by the rules. what a surprise. here we are, we're looking at the possibility of a south carolina representative, patrick mchenry, a guy who can be place holders. i've seen place holders turn into really good speakers in the past. he could be a place holder who can get them through the things they need to get through between now and the end of the year, the end of session, and then they can work, like every other congress does, over vacation,

over december vacation and recess in january, and come back in january with somebody they can get 217 votes. this is not hard. trust me, when i say this is not hard, this is not hard. >> well, that's just it. i mean, we're talking about the politics of it, but there's really important business that has to get done. to get it done, there has to be a speaker of the house. if that means, as you say, putting mchenry in there for a bit, just to get the government funded, to address the war happening in israel, the one happening in ukraine and the other business in front of the congress, just get it done. you've heard guys that, from moderate republicans, when they're asked, who are you supporting, they say, i support kevin mccarthy. i voted for him. we voted for him, and this small group of extremists threw him out of office. they're saying, i don't like any of the options before me. remains to be seen how jim jordan, if he's getting to the 217, wins them over. what promises can he give them? what deals can he make so they'll hold their noses and

vote for him? >> man, you know -- >> wow. that's amazing. >> first lesson in fight club, you don't talk about fight club. you and i, mika, we always talk about that. i mean, the first lesson in this sort of politics, you know, is you never let somebody, you never let six, seven, eight people run a conference. you run over them. >> right. >> there is no way republicans couldn't do a deal with hakeem jeffries. it wouldn't be perfect, but it'd send a message to everybody else. if you hold the united states congress hostage, we're going to figure out any way we can to roll you. we will roll you immediately, and you will look like fools. you will be irrelevant. you will be stripped from your committees. we may even throw you out of the conference. go ahead. play ball. you've got to do it. you've got to make a -- you've got to make this point and make an example of these people. if that means doing a deal with

democrats in the short term to send a message to all 218 people in your conference, you've got to do that. >> i don't think they're capable of doing that. >> i don't either. >> the options are a vote at noon today, a j-6er becomes speaker of the house, or there is no speaker of the house while president biden is dealing with two separate wars and traveling to israel amid that country's war against hamas. >> yeah. because he's actually serious. >> working. he'll arrive tomorrow in what will be his second trip into an active war zone this year. he's expected to meet with prime minister benjamin netanyahu and other israeli leaders. afterwards, he will travel to jordan where he will meet with the king of that country, as well as the president of the palestinian national authority, and the president of egypt, another key player in this. meanwhile, israel's defense forces launched air strikes into gaza for another day targeting

hamas ahead of an expected ground invasion. secretary of state antony blinken attended meetings with israel's war cabinet yesterday, working with leaders to get humanitarian aid to palestinian civilians in gaza and develop safe zones. >> the united states and israel have agreed to develop a plan that will enable humanitarian aid from donor nations and multilateral organizations to reach civilians in gaza, and them alone, including the possibility of creating areas to help keep civilians out of harm's way. it is critical that aid begin flowing into gaza as soon as possible. >> joining us now from ben-gurion university in israel, 20 miles from the border with gaza, nbc news foreign correspondent kelly cobiella. describe what you're seeing there today. also, if you can, get into some of these diplomatic efforts by the united states and other nations to get that humanitarian aid into gaza, with the help, they hope, of egypt.

>> reporter: yeah, willie, i mean, the president will be coming to a country that is still very much in the middle of this national nightmare. just a couple of hours ago, we heard warning sires sounding here in the student halls. this is a place very much living this day in and day out. warning sirens, people missing, notifications of people who have been kidnapped. you know, hamas still is able to fire rockets into israel. israel still pounding targets inside gaza. you know, highlighting yet again this morning that really, really difficult and urgent problem of civilians being caught up in the middle of this. there are more disturbing images coming out today, this morning, of children being pulled from the rubble of a building after an air strike in northern gaza.

the idf said repeatedly, we're hitting hamas targets, but, you know, it's obvious to all that civilians are being very, very deeply affected, as well. yes, the talks are continuing. difficult, difficult diplomatic negotiation between egypt, israel, and the united states to open up that border crossing. the rafah crossing between egypt and gaza to get foreign nationals out and get aid in. the red cross says they have 12 trucks full of aid sitting on the egyptian side of that border. the need is absolutely urgent and vital. there are, you know, hundreds, we don't exactly know how many, of americans and other foreign nationals waiting on the gaza side to get out. both sides are blaming others, the other for holdups or problems in negotiating to get that border crossing open. quite frankly, it still hasn't

happened. people are asking why. i don't think there are a whole lot of answers for them right now. all we know is that secretary blinken said on sunday, reiterated again on monday, that the humanitarian need is huge is that rafah crossing would be opened. guys, just one more thing. just to give you an idea of what places like this are going through. here at ben-gurion university, more than 50 people were killed in the attack. more than 10 are being held hostage. we're talking about students and faculty members. this afternoon, the university president is going to a shiva for a staff member and her family who were all killed on saturday. >> there is no part of israel that hasn't been touched by this directly. foreign correspondent kelly cobiella reporting live from israel. thank you. mika. let's bring in president emer

emeritus richard haass and also ed luce of "the financial times." >> both have written pieces on what israel should do moving forward and what gaza should do and what the international should do. richard, you, like me, believe when this is over, we have to move to a two-state solution. yet, in your piece, i don't see anything about destroying hamas. sounds like you think hamas can be detained, degraded. you suggest there is nobody to take hamas' place. it sounds as if hamas would be the de facto leader in gaza after all this is over. did i misread your article? >> that's probably true, either hamas or something like it. i think that will remain. it can't be defeated militarily, to destroy hamas. that is beyond what military

tools can accomplish. israel needs to focus on rebuilding the defenses. this never should have happened in the first place. it has to work on it. there has to be a track, something for palestinians where you say, palestinians, hamas is a dead end. you have to work with groups who will rule out viviolence, who a willing to co-exist with israel, and it starts in the west bank with the palestinian authority, probably not the current leadership but some successor leadership. it's long-term challenge. right now, emotions are raw. we have to do this, not simply just for palestinians, but if israel is going to remain a jewish democratic state, the only way it can accomplish that is if there is a palestinian state. otherwise, the 5 million palestinians that israel now

oversees, either they're denied rights, in which case israel ceases to be a democracy, or they're given rights and israel ceases to be a jewish state. this is something that has to happen, both for israelis and palestinians. >> richard, i completely agree, but how do you have a two-state solution when one of those states have terrorists in it whose charter says they're going to destroy israel and they're going to kill jews? i mean, we have seen israel, america, the middle eastern leaders and the world, try to, quote, manage gaza since 2005. we saw the consequences of that last saturday. >> look, it's not going to happen with hamas in charge of gaza. there's different possibilities, joe. imagine you establish something with the palestinians in the west bank, which is not a fool's errand. one possibility, you could have a three-state solution.

gaza can be contained under hamas. what i'm hoping, if you show the palestinians can future under different leadership, it can change in gaza. this can't happen with hamas in control of gaza. there are different paths, but it had to begin. i think it begins by what israel and the united states articulate, then creating a different dynamic in the west bank. >> ed, the president leaves tonight, wheels up from joint base andrews, heads to israel. it'll certainly be a sign of solidarity with the jewish state. he has a tricky needle to thread, both with israel, showing support, but also wanting to keep humanitarian purposes in mind when they go to gaza. of course, he meets with arab leaders, trying to put pressure on them, as well, to help. what would be your agenda for the president when he touches down in the middle east

tomorrow? >> i think it is very telling that, you know, the white house say the purpose of this trip is two-fold. a, to show solidarity with israel, which is surpassing the important at a time like this, and, b, which is links to a, to discuss next steps. next steps, of course, is the biden administration in the immediate future shaping israel's response to this hamas attack, ensuring that, you know, the international law is not breached, providing what support israel needs. hopefully, and, you know, this is, i think, what -- based on richard's answer, what he'd like to see, too -- more medium-term next steps. who are your palestinian interlocutors going to be once you've taken out the hamas leadership? when he meets with abbas,

al-sisi afterwards, you know, he is going to have, i think, a reminder, that the current palestinian leadership in the west bank is, to put it a little bit indelicately, they're kind of political eunichs. abbas isn't really a representative of non-hamas palestinian sentiment. hasn't been an election in years. it takes work to create a viable palestinian negotiating partner. it takes time. that conversation has got to start now. i think, you know, netanyahu is obviously a wartime leader now, but he's spent 15 years undermining the palestinian authority, encroaching more and more with settlements on the west bank, and that has made, you know, an incredibly weak,

incredibly disrespected palestinian leadership. there's got to be a new leadership, both in israel and in the west bank. >> ed, you used the phrase, political eunuchs. we in new york are 2 miles from a building along the east river called the united nations. i'm wondering, i'm wondering, what, if any, role they play in these volatile situations globally, especially this one right now? >> well, i think very good question. you know, the problem today, i think, or it might be tomorrow, putin is in beijing meeting with xi jinping. two members of the u.n. security council, russia and china, that see this chaos and this tragedy as an opportunity for them. which, you know, russia, in particular, is seeking to exploit, in terms of the who benefits, the question from what

happened ten days ago, russia is high up on the list. what can the u.n. do when china and russia are members of the security council? i think it can do a lot on the humanitarian side. it can do a lot on the human rights side. politically, this is going to be a paralyzed united nations. this is why the biden trip to israel is so important. you know, we can all sit here, you know, and pontificate, on capitol hill they can issue resolutions, i can write op-eds. biden has actually got to deal with this situation, and he is doing something incredibly difficult. he's siing with israeli justice as he should. there has to be justice for this atrocity. but he's also siding with peace. he has to be on the side of justice in order to influence peace. that's where the game is. i have to say, you know, it's not fashionable to praise presidents, but i think he's

handled -- so far, biden has handled this crisis almost pitch per fact handling of it. >> all right. ed luce and richard haass, thank you, both, for your analysis and insight this morning. coming up on "morning joe," our next guest has experience fighting the kind of terrorist threat israel faces in its battle against hamas. retired general david petraeus commanded america's wars in both iraq and afghanistan. he joins us straight ahead on "morning joe."

2,000 american troops are prepared for deployment to the middle east, members have been

put on a 24-hour prepare to deploy status. if deployed to the region, the troops would be sent to a nearby country to potentially assist israel in a non-combat capacity. joining us now here in studio, retired army four star general david petraeus. he worked closely with presidents george w. bush and barack obama, as commander of the surge in iraq and the security force in afghanistan. he was cia director under president obama. general petraeus is co-author of "conflict, the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine." general petraeus, good morning. great to have you here. sadly, this book is perpetually relevant and never more so than now. you're the perfect man to have sitting here, as someone who helped our country respond to a terrorist attack. how would you be going about this if you were talking to the idf, you were talking to the prime minister, netanyahu, if you were advising president biden? this is a very difficult task, is it not? >> it is. it is fiendishly difficult.

it is hard to imagine. my great co-author and i sat down. you can't think of a time you saw a more difficult mission for a military organization than what they face going into gaza. if you really destroy hamas, you have to go into every building. these are high-rises. clear every floor, every room, every cellar, every tunnel. there is a huge tunnel system. there will be improvised explosive devices, suicide bombers, all of this. the real issue, i think, is not just that, it's then what? i'm sure, i am very confident, i know the idf leadership very well, respect them highly, and i'm sure they're sitting down with the prime minister and now their former idf chief of staff, benny gantz who joined the coalition, and say, okay, after we clear and hold the areas, then what? again, it's the issue that, you know, vengeance is not enough. it's also, what are the other components of a comprehensive

approach, what richard haass rightly was emphasiing the need for, what are you doing the day after? what's the vision for the palestinians in gaza after you remove or severely damage hamas? i don't think you can leave them there. if they are left in charge after they pull out, they'll just come back. >> i was going to ask you that. prime minister netanyahu said the mission is to completely destroy hamas, destroy their capability, do again what they did october 7th, and every member of hamas is, quote, a dead man. is that the right objective to begin with? obviously, what comes next is maybe even the harder question? >> the what comes next is even harder, but this would be a very, very substantial task. it took the iraqi security forces, supported by americans and a coalition, nine months to clear a city roughly the size of gaza city, mosul, where i was as

a two star. so the challenges of the tactical mission are substantial. the bigger issue is, what is this strategy? again, once they have -- i remember taking the 101st airborne division, we took the first large city during the fight to baghdad. i called my boss and said, "hey, good news and bad news. good news, we own it. but the bad news, we own it. what do you want to do with it?" what do you want to do with gaza city and the territory, and what is the vision for the palestinians there? can you tell them about, you're going to focus on improving their lives, and not just there but also in the west bank. this has to be a moment, this is so terrible, so horrific, so barbaric, unspeakable, there has to be something good that comes out of this. it could be in the vision for the future that really does mitigate the risks of this happening again. >> joe, general petraeus obviously knows of what he speaks, as he writes about in the book, having responded on behalf of the american people to 9/11, also the pitfalls of that in terms of going into iraq.

>> right. general petraeus, so great to have you with us here today. i want to talk to you right now as a former cia director. and borrow on john kennedy when he was a young senator. of course, he wrote the famous book, "why england slept." based on everything that you've gathered, the information you've gathered since last saturday morning, let me ask you the question about israel. why did israel sleep? >> well, they were distracted, in part. it was also a religious day, a particularly important one. the hamas operational security obviously increased dramatically. they presumably knew the sources and methods that the internal security service, because this is internal, gaza and the west bank, that they employed. they fed disinformation, reportedly, to them. then they creatively took out the nodes that connected the

surveillance system along this extensive fence, so they were able to mobilize these forces and get through before the israeli defense forces even knew what was going on. so a number of different factors, as always. there's usually never a single reason for something happening that is as significant as this. obviously, a colossal intelligence failure and military readiness failure, as well. >> you talk about in the book about the big idea. you have to have the big idea. then you have to communicate that big idea effectively throughout the process. you have to refine that big idea. i want to ask you, looking through that prism, which worked so effectively for you in iraq, what is the big idea right now if you are netanyahu, if you're the coalition government? what's the big idea right now?

>> well, getting the big ideas right is the key to strategic leadership. we lay that out in the introduction. we rewrote that to emphasize how important that is. in this case, i think the initial big idea is, again, to seek vengeance, to destroy hamas, uproot it completely. beyond that, what is the rest of the big idea? as i mentioned earlier, there has to be more than just the military component. it should be a comprehensive approach that lays out all aspects of what is the future going to be for the palestinian people in gaza. while they're at it, let's talk about the future of the palestinian people in the west bank, as well. comfortable politically. obviously within israel. let's hope this is a catalyst. again, horrific catalyst that can prompt that thinking. i suspect that that's among the discussion topics, perhaps the most important discussion poppic between our president and prime minister netanyahu. then with the arab leaders with

whom he will meet in amman, jordan, as well. >> general, the subtitle of the book, "conflict," is the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine. each war that we have been engaged with or on the edge of has always involved a real political component. what do we do today about the dilemma that our principal ally in the middle east, perhaps our only true ally in the middle east, israel, is a country that's kind of unique, in that it gets attacked for defending itself? >> well, again, we've got to sit down with them, go back through how did this happen: there will be endless post mormortempostmo question. you have to get to the root causes of this, as well. that's, i think, the big point that those from washington are going to discuss in jerusalem and then also in amman, jordan. it has to be more than just the military. you know, it's often said,

there's no military solution to this problem. well, actually, sometimes that's not correct. our adversaries find a military solution to a problem. in this case, the military solution is part of the overall solution, but the question is, what are the other components of that? again, this can't be where you get to baghdad and, you know, say good news/bad news. good news is we own iraq. what do you want us to do with it? we haven't thought through the post-conflict phase, the phase four operations, which, in that case, were shown to be inadequate, as well. >> let's talk about the other war ongoing, one you touch upon in the book, ukraine. the conflict seems to be grinding and slow. the russians and ukrainians fighting over a few meters at times per day. do you see anything to change that? is this going to be a slog until there is a negotiated settlement of some sort? >> there is a number of factors, i think, that will answer that particular question. having taught economics new york city you always say, it depends.

it does depend. in particular, will the u.s. continue to support? we've done an impressive job leading nato and the rest of the western world. i think we've responded in a way that exceeded what president putin probably expected, as have the ukrainians, by the way. so we've got to obviously get our act together in washington, in addition to providing authorizations or appropriations for israel, do the same for ukraine. keep in mind, by the way, these reverberate around the world. if you're found wanting here, others will seize on that in other locations. the next question is, will the russians crack and crumble? it's very hard to say. i've been in battles where te the enemy just collapsed. you can't put your fieng erfing what it was, other than the sheer pressure. we have to hasten the day where vladimir putin concludes this war is not sustainable. not because of what we're doing to support the ukrainians on the battlefield but what we are doing with financial, economic and personal sanctions and

export controls, tightening those and going after those evading them, together with western allies and partners. >> general, i want to look at your book and the lessons that you're teaching in your book and use that up to the surge. talk about the surge through the leadership traits of this. this is -- again, americans obviously when you talk about iraq focus on 2003 to 2006, for good reasons. i mean, failed invasion. for the purposes of the invasion, the sectarian violence to exploded in 2006, the nightmare. what happened with the surge in 2007 to 2008. we would have dexter filkins on, the great reporter for "the new york times" in 2005, six, seven, and say it's a nightmare. this is just a hellscape. i've never seen anything this happen. we had him on in 2009, and he famously said, "i don't even

recognize the place. there is peace in so many neighborhoods that i couldn't even walk down before." there was an extraordinary turnaround. of course, we don't focus on it that much. we don't focus on it that much because of the hell that preceded it and because we got in the wrong way. but i want to ask you, looking at the leadership lessons from this book, what were you thinking going into the surge when nobody expected that to be successful? what leadership components of this book did you use to make the surge remarkably successful? >> well, we sought to get the big ideas right, and we did. 180 degrees different from what we were doing before. people talk about change management, change leadership. doesn't get bigger than that. again, we recognize we had to go back into the neighborhoods to secure the people. we had to clear and hold, not clear and handoff. we had to build. we had to reconcile with many of the bad guys that weren't the hardest of hard core. then we had to relentlessly

pursue the irreconcilables. we had to get it right and then commuicate that, to the force and everyone else in the outcome, and convince the iraqis life would be better if they supported us and ultimately their government. then we oversaw the implementation of the big ideas, and we would tweak them, refine them from time to time. over the course of 18 months, our coalition forces, together with our iraqi partners, drove violence down 90% and achieved what dexter then described, and kept it that way a good 3 1/2 years until, tragically, the prime minister undid it within 4 hours of our combat hours leaving and pursuing sectarian actions that unhinged the country again and allowed the islamic state to reconstitute. a lot of lessons in there. again, as we look at the task before prime minister netanyahu and his coalition government, he's got to get these big ideas right. he's got to communicate them effectively. he's got to convince the

palestinian people that life will be better without hamas than if they support hamas. obviously, they have to implement those big ideas and tweak them and do it again and again. >> general, let me ask about the country that supports, funds, does everything else for hamas, iran. the supreme leader put out a message saying the united states effectively is pulling the strings and all this. that's why president biden is going to tel-aviv, they're calling the shots. he said the united states must be held responsible for this. they're also funding hezbollah to the north. how would you be proceeding right now with iran? >> well, largely doing what we are doing. first of all, augment your forces very substantially. i think it's probably been a bit mistaken to constantly try to leave the middle east. it's a little like michael corleone trying to leave the mafia. you get pulled back. we have to recognize that and be clear of who our friends are and enemies are. iran is in the latter court.

be clear on that. then be sure they understand what will be the response if, for example, their proxy forces, their shia militia in iraq go after the forces that we still have there or northeastern syria or perhaps even in the gulf states, or against our partners there. we haven't always responded as firmly as we might have in the past, such as when they attacked the oil facility in saudi arabia or some of the others. it's a moment for clarity. two entire carrier task forces is an extraordinary amount. it's what we normally had when i was the commander of u.s. central command. it is a reassuring presence and should be a cautionary presence for those in tehran. >> hezbollah has more sophisticated weapons than hamas. >> 150,000 rockets. >> if they fire those, let's say, at tel-aviv, what next? >> well, the israelis will take care of that. again, i think hezbollah does not want to revisit what

happened to them in 2006, when they made an incursion, took two israeli soldiers hostage, and got hammered. they'll do some action. they already are. iran will pressure them to do that. the end of the day, i don't think they truly want to be on the receiving end of what israel has ready for them, if they use the capacity they have. >> great to have you, general, to walk through all that's going on now. the new book is "conflict, the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine." retired general david petraeus, thank you for being here, sir. >> good to be with you, willie. thank you. >> mika. joining us now, national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby. thank you for coming back on. if you could explain to us what president biden's message to the world is as he heads to israel, but also address, if you could, the challenges ahead as palestinian citizens might very

well be in the line of fire from the israeli response to the savage attack on israel. >> thanks, mika. president is looking forward later today to heading over to israel and then, after that, to amman, jordan. really, there's three things on his agenda. one is making sure he sends to strong signal of support to israel, obviously as they defend themselves. he'll get a briefing on how things are going on the ground and where things are going in the future. number two is our hostages. we'll continue to talk with our partners in the region about getting the hostages out, all of them, certainly including those americans we know are in the hostage population. three, to your exact question, the humanitarian assistance situation, we've got to make sure that aid is getting in, food, water, medicine, and people that need to get out can get out. secretary blinken had a lengthy, lengthy set of discussions yesterday in tel-aviv with

israeli officials. we made progress. we're hoping the gates will open in the very near future and some of that very, very necessary humanitarian assistance will get in. the key, mika, is to make sure it can sustain itself, that it is not just a one and done, that we can keep the humanitarian assistance flowing. >> is there a possibility of other arab countries openly helping palestinian citizens? >> well, we certainly would like to see everybody be welcoming to helping all the palestinians now at great risk and greater risk if they can't get out of gaza. those are conversations we're having. secretary blinken had as he did shuttle diplomacy across the middle east. we're hoping other folks will step up and be willing to help. >> good morning. let's talk about the rafah crossing there on the border with egypt and gaza and why that hasn't been opened up. is it because egypt does not want a million, perhaps, refugees flooding into their country? we know humanitarian aid has

stacked up, ready to be brought in by the truckload to gaza but can't get through. egyptians say some of the roads have been bombed on the gaza side by israel, making passage difficult. what's the truth? why isn't that border open? >> there's a lot of factors that go into this, willie. some of it, obviously, is concerns that egypt has about security and, you know, people coming across through that gate. they want to make sure they can protect their population. i mean, that's a perfectly understandable concern. another reason it's not open is because of hamas. they're literally setting up roadblocks and are refusing to allow people to make any further progress on those roads heading south. there's a lot of factors here. >> admiral, we heard from hamas, and we, of course, are curious as to whether you believe them, that they might be willing to make some deals for hostages. that they'd be willing to release at least some if field conditions improve, to quote them. not quite sure what that means. can you talk to us about the level of negotiation, if any, that has happened with hamas,

and do we think this is something that could be pursued? >> i want to be real careful here, jonathan, not to get too far ahead of where we are. certainly, i don't want to talk about anything publicly that can make it harder for us to get these hostages home with their families where they belong. what i can tell you is, we are very actively and energetically involved in discussions and conversations to try to effect that exact outcome, to get the hostages released and back with their families. i want to be careful that i don't go any further that that. we obviously want to keep all our options open, and we're doing that. i do that you have to take what hamas says with a little bit of a grain of salt there. you know, they should release the hostages now. i heard the statement. i saw it. but, you know, we're not going to put a whole lot of stock and trade in their public pronouncements when, in fact, they're releasing videos of hostages that they claim they're caring for actually, you know, repairing the injuries, treating the injuries that they, themselves, caused. it is reprehensible. they need to be released now. we're working on that very, very

hard. >> retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you. keep us posted. we'll see you again soon. thank you. >> yes, ma'am. up next, the head of the anti-defamation league, jonathan greenblatt, will join the conversation. he, too, is about to depart on a trip to israel. we'll talk to him about what he hopes to accomplish there. "morning joe" will be right back.

the justice department is investigating the brutal murder of a 6-year-old muslim boy in illinois as a federal hate crime. stephanie gosk has details. >> reporter: a mosque in illinois filled with mourners for 6-year-old wadea al fayoume, stabbed in his home with his mother just because they were muslim. his mother survived, her son did

not. the father is in shock. >> it's like a dream. i still didn't believe my son is gone. >> reporter: the family's landlord, 71-year-old joseph czuba, is charged with first agree murder and hate crimes and hasn't entered a plea. >> this didn't take place in a vacuum. over the past ten days, palestinians, arabs, muslim americans have been subjected to a hateful, hostile campaign. >> reporter: as the funeral was being held, the mosque was on guard with heavy security because they fear their community could be targeted again. >> people are afraid. i'm afraid to leave my house. i don't know if there's i don't to be some maniac who doesn't know any better. >> the fbi says it's seeing an increase in rhetoric targeting both muslim and jewish people. law enforcement has ramped up security at places of worship, since hamas terrorists attacked israel, the antidefamation

league says there has been at least 91 anti-semitic incidents nationwide, 7 assaults, 20 incidents of vandalism and 64 of harassment. fbi director christopher wray speaking out against hate crimes over the weekend. >> the targeting of a community because of their faith is totally unacceptable. >> nbc's stephanie gosk reporting there. joining us now, the ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan greenblatt. good morning, again, you have been unequivocal in the condemnation of this horror. you can't believe it when you hear the details, and read the details, a beautiful 6-year-old boy murdered for the crime of being muslim. what more can you say about it this morning? >> it's a terrible tragedy to see a mother and her child stabbed in a home by a lunatic because they're muslim. we called it out immediately because we should have no place for that in society. we got reports last night in belgium that two swedish men were shot and killed by an

individual who identified himself as a, quote, fighter for allah and said it was a revenge attack. we're seeing our world unravel because of this hamas massacre and these 1,400 innocent people who were killed. so we're really worried. you just alluded to the numbers we're tracking. the fbi released their hate crime data yesterday. unsurprisingly, in the year since they have been tracking it, law enforcement last year was the highest number of anti-semitic incidents they have ever seen. literally it was a 37% increase over the prior year. and jews, despite the fact that we're 2% of the population more than half of all religiously motivated hate crimes. 10% of all hate crimes. i mean, let's just acknowledge that we are really, i think, on edge, and that's a reason why everyone is so concerned. >> jonathan, let me ask you, have you been surprised at how many otherwise thoughtful

college presidents in this country seemingly cannot understand or do not know the true meaning of the world terrorist and terrorism? >> yeah, i mean, it's a good question, mike. it's interesting, these college presidents with their fancy ph.d.s get an f in recognizing evil. if you rape women, that isn't resistance, okay. if you decapat babies that isn't decolonization, and anyone who thinkshat this was justified literally gets an f in life. but, you know what, mike, it's not just the presidents. in the last 24, 48 hours, we have had college professors from places like cornell and columbia lauding the attacks, applauding the terrorists, extolling the virtues of quote resistance.

there's a reckoning that needs to happen at our universities, it's long overdue, i'm glad it's now under way. >> the university of pennsylvania is losing a major donor other claims of anti-semitism. former u.s. ambassador john huntsman announced that his family is cutting off funding to the ivy league school. huntsman and his family have donated tens of millions of dollars to the school over the last few decades. on sunday, the school newspaper, "the daily pennsylvanian" printed a letter from huntsman to the university president, liz mcgill, annncg the end of donation from the huntsman foundation. the letter reads in part, quote, the university's silence in the face of reprehensible and historic evil against the people of israel when the only response should be outright condemnation

is a new low. silence is anti-semitism, and anti-semitism is hate. on friday, a trustee resigned from u penn's board of trustees, over concerns of anti-semitism. they faced backlash over a festival featured palestinian writers with a history of anti-semitic statements. the university president released a statement on sunday condemning the hamas attacks and addressing the situation with the festival back in september. jonathan greenblatt, it might be a little too late. it seems like she's backtracking. but what do you make of the huntsman donations, and is this perhaps the way to communicate with universities that are slow on the up take? >> mika, i'm glad you brought this up. i have been on your show many times, and at the avl, we fight all forms of hate. that's our focus. and what's important about john huntsman, the former ambassador

from china who comes from a prom inent morman family. they're pulling back their donations because hate is hate. and silence in the face of hate is unexcusable. these hamas terrorists atrocities weren't just committed against israelis and jews, people from germany, the uk, thailand, the philippines, and of course america, mika. dozens and dozens of americans were killed. reportedly upwards of 20 americans are being kidnapped, bound and gagged and held in tunnels below gaza. again, to your point, let's acknowledge that these presidents may finally be realizing that the university is just not students sitting in desks. a university is a community. donors are a part of it. alumni are a part of it.

there are other stake holders who are a part of it, and they need to be listening to all of them to create a really beloved community on their campuses, a community where jewish life isn't valued, a community where the leadership, you know, equivocates in the face of evil, that isn't leadership, mika. that's something far far less. >> so, jonathan, president biden heads to israel this evening. you're about to make your own trip there. tell us what you hope to hear from him, but also what you'll be doing. >> yeah, so i'm here in d.c. today. american jewish leaders from around the country are all convening together with leaders of the administration, the leadership in congress for a sort of rally, if you will, to show ourlad unwavering support of the israeli people, and 50 of us are taking an emergency solidarity mission to israel, in parallel to, and to

nverge with the president. the fact that he's going is a sign, jonathan, about the val and importance that america places on the american-israeli relationship. when we're there, we'll be meeting not just with the political leadership of israel, the american families of victims, american families of hostages who are there. leadership of the idf and trying to understand how a hate group, a terrorist organization like hamas could cause such carnage, and hopefully israel, the situation in gaza is very very bad, my heart breaks for the innocent palestinian like my heart breaks for the israeli families who lost loved ones who have been displaced and dislocated. let's hope america and israel together can figure out how to eradicate the evil of hamas once and for all. >> ceo of the antidefamation league jonathan greenblatt, thank you very much for being on. we'll be watching your trip. up next, nbc's richard engel reports for us live from the

israel-gaza border. also ahead, we'll go through donald trump's latest gag order and get expert analysis from former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg. meanwhile, one of trump's allies on capitol hill is working to secure the support needed to become speaker of the house. we'll have a preview of today's expected vote. we're back in two minutes. expec. we're back in two minutes. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

on wednesday, president biden will visit israel. he's coming here at a critical moment for israel. for the region, and for the world. the president will reaffirm the united states' solidarity with israel and our ironclad commitment to its security, that israel has the right and, indeed, the duty to defend its people from hamas and other terrorists and to prevent future attacks. the president will hear from israel, how it will conduct its operations in a way that minimizes civilian casualties, and enables humanitarian

assistance to gaza in a way that does not benefit hamas. >> u.s. secretary of state antony blinken announcing president biden's trip to israel ahead of that country's looming ground offensive into gaza. the visit will come amid a growing humanitarian crisis in the territory and desperate efforts to get civilians out of the war zone. we'll go through all of that and get a live report from the israel-gaza border in just a moment. >> willie, of course, there is a desperate effort to try to get the palestinians out of the war zone. a desperate effort internationally from the united states, from the israelis, trying to get them out of the war zone. of course the united states working as hard as they can to try to pressure egypt to have that crossing into egypt from gaza. right now, they're still pushing back, but, you know, the "wall street journal" editorial page puts it really best when they talk about, you know,

palestinian lives matter except to hamas. you have the entire world community trying to get the palestinians out of harm's way. and you have hamas leaders sitting in resort hotels in qatar in four seasons holding press conferences, ordering hamas fighters to keep palestinians who want to flee with their families to keep them in north gaza. literally everybody is trying to get the palestinians out of the war zone, except for hamas, who have started to set up blockades to keep innocent civilians in the war zone who are trying to flea and who are trying to fight efforts by the united states and others to open up the safe corridor in egypt for temporary settlements so they can be safe with their families while the war between israel and hamas is going on. >> and reports, in fact, that hamas is intercepting what little u.n. aid is there on the

ground. any humanitarian aid, destroying some of it or keeping it from the people of gaza as well who are trying to survive in what as you say is a humanitarian crisis. secretary of state blinken has been up almost literally 24 hours a day, shuttling between middle eastern countries and trying to prevail upon israel, egypt and others to open the corridor and get people out of there. they're talking about opening safe zones within gaza where israel would not strike. the world community is scrambling to protect the citizens of gaza, the civilians of gaza, that is, ahead of what is expected to be a massive operation from the israeli military. >> and, again, the question that needs to be answered from arab countries that love to put out press releases saying how much they support the palestinian causes. >> exactly. >> why don't you actually support the palestinians, why is it that you won't bring some palestinians in as refugees temporarily, reassure them their right to return, but take care of it. the ugly secret unfortunately

throughout the arab world is that arab countries want no part of the palestinians, they want no part of hamas. they are actually fighting against us, against the united states of america, as tony blinken is going around, trying to get arab countries to help these palestinian refugees out, to step up with funding. i have a great idea, what about kuwait. it seems to me the united states gave and gave and gave to the government of kuwait and the people of kuwait. they're doing nothing in return. absolutely nothing, and you look at egypt. egypt wants no part of it. they get billions of dollars of aid from the united states every year, and they won't even open up the corridor because they don't want palestinians in their country. again, a lot of hypocrisy, and right now, who are the people who are suffering? it's the palestinian people.

>> children, babies, all hanging in the balance being used, really. >> being used in these arab countries, these countries that are making peace with israel, but never made peace with the palestinians as part of that process, mika. the incredible thing is they want help. and here we have tony blinken running around all the middle east, asking arab countries to help us help the palestinians and they're refusing. for some reason, nobody ever tells that story. it needs to be told. >> and the president of course is headed back. we're going to get to the fight for the speaker who's going to be the speaker of the house because we don't have one, and trump got a gag order. we'll get to that. but let's stay on this, willie. right to the border, israel and gaza. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is there for us this morning. if you could, pick up on the

point that joe was making about the efforts of antony blinken scrambling across seven or eight counties to get them on board to do something to aid the people of gaza. where does that stand right now, and how likely in your long experience in the middle east is it that middle eastern countries would help in that effort? >> good morning. so many diplomatic efforts underway right now. first of all, on that potential safe zone in gaza, diplomatic efforts are underway. u.s. officials say they are working on it. they haven't discussed any specifics because they're trying to figure out how that aid would get in, where it would go, how it would be distributed, who would be responsible, and so it doesn't end up in the hands of hamas. do i think it will happen? it's possible it will happen. there's a lot of pressure on hamas, a lot of pressure on israel to allow some aid to get

in there. many arab states have been accusing israel of carrying out a policy of collective punishment by sealing off the entire gaza strip, and not allowing in electricity, food, medicine, and other supplies. so that is only one part of the diplomatic push that president biden will also now be engaged in personally when he comes here, comes to this country tomorrow. the other is the ongoing effort to free the hostages, and there was a development yesterday. it came from hamas. it is still tentative. but it is potentially a game changer, that the main spokesperson for the military wing gave a statement through the various channels saying that hamas has 200 hostages. the group said that other palestinian factions inside gaza have around 50 or more than 50 other hostages. so bringing the total number of hostages inside the gaza strip

to 250 plus. but hamas says of the 200 that its military wing is holding. it is verified their identities and is holding an unspecified number of foreign nationals, and it is willing to let them go because it was taken during the raids in israel when it went on a killing and kidnapping spree. didn't check their identities at the time, but that the foreigners are not part of its conflict with israel that it has no issue with them and that it will let them go when, quote, field conditions are right. now, what exactly that means is unclear, but iran, which backs hamas has said that hamas is willing to let hostages go, if israeli air strikes on the gaza strip continue. that is another potential development. there's work getting humanitarian aid in, and then of course there is the looming military action, the israeli air

strikes into gaza are still continuing, although i will say over the last 24 hours or so, they do seem to have slowed down. there are still air strikes, but they are not quite as ferocious as we saw over the first few days of this conflict. >> richard, since october 7th, obviously our impression, the world's impression of israel is this fearsome fighting military machine has been severely damaged. its reputation damaged. i'm curious, we're hearing about the hundreds of thousands of fighters that are coming in now, reservists that are coming back in. do you get a sense that israel is once again feeling confident, their defense, their military can actually defend the people. are they still shattered by the events of october 7th? are they still questioning whether benjamin netanyahu and this coalition government can do the job?

>> reporter: all of those things are true. the israelis are angry, but they're also nervous, nervous at how they could have missed this. they are nervous what hamas may have in store in gaza. they say, and if you ask israelis, they will say, yes, we were caught sleeping. we made a mistake. there's anger at the netanyahu government and netanyahu personally. now they have mobilized, they are not sleeping anymore, and they are on a mission as a nation to destroy hamas. that is the collective goal here, and i think everyone feels that it is something that is necessary. the question is how do you do that? do you send the 300,000 plus reservists into gaza into blitzkrieg, do you carry it out through targeted raids potentially in coordination with the united states and other countries, do you do a combination of the two, send in some troops to block off parts

of the gaza strip while raids continue and negotiations continue? it is a enormously delicate time, and that's just in the gaza strip, and this conflict has already spread beyond gaza. it's important to think about this as what's described as the axis of resistance here, and that is iran and its proxies, and its proxies are hamas and hezbollah and hamas has clearly mobilized, hezbollah is mobilizing and there have been strikes carried out by hezbollah against israeli troops along the border. israel has evacuated some border communities, and then iran has issued vague threats just in the last 24 hours, that it might carry out preemptive strikes is if israel's attack on gaza continues, so there are many signs that there could be some diplomatic progress with the potential opening of a safe corridor or safe zone. some movement, the first time ever we're hearing any kind of

movement regarding the hostages, but the new threats from iran and hezbollah all do not bode well. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel thank you very much for your reporting on the scene. joining us now, nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire, the host of "way too early." >> keir, let's start with you, the headline in the "wall street journal," top of the page, "war shifts global dynamics." >> yeah. >> you suddenly see a connection between hamas. you can draw a straight line to iran. from iran, you can draw a straight line to russia. from russia, you can draw a straight line to china. not saying they were all coordinated in this, just simply saying this "wall street journal" article states that this is actually a big win for russia. the fact that the united states is going to be drawn in is something that russia is celebrating right now.

>> reporter: let's describe it in a different way. we live in a different world than for example the u.s. invaded iraq all of those years ago, and you can dismiss the united nations, but it does give us a window into the way the world looks right now. the u.n. security council met last night. there was a russian draft that condemned violence against civilians. that draft never mentioned hamas. linda thomas-greenfield saying at that same meeting, that same session, by fail to go condemn hamas, russia is giving cover to a terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians. it's outrageous, hypocritical. the u.s. didn't like a brazilian resolution that called for pauses, that condemned violence against civilians and condemned the heinous acts by hamas. i was told for the u.s. that was too much equivalence.

i think it's notable, for example, that last night the votes for that russian residence -- resolution including the united arab emirates. polls, very strong deep polling suggests the arab street's view of israel hasn't moved by more than a few percentage points since the abraham accords apparently improved relations. we're seeing russia and china in lock step. president putin meeting with president xi in china tomorrow. i thought one phrase from the chinese foreign minister, wangy e, saying there is no way out through military means, and using violence for violence will only create a vicious cycle. clearly america needs as many allies for this as possible, so does israel and clearly america's foes will join any way

in which the u.s. gets pulled into a quagmire or seen to make a mistake. let's talk about the way the world has changed. particularly, for example, what we call the global south, watching from the sidelines, forming opinions. another quote from the colombian president, you can say the colombians don't have anything to do with this, but i think it's interesting what the president said. if we have to suspend foreign relations with israel, we'll suspend them. we do not support genocide. so what's happening here beyond what's happening in the region and in israel and gaza itself is the continuing battle for the hearts and minds of peoples and countries around the world, by the u.s., by the west. this conflict is now part of this, guys. >> the president will visit as we said, israel tomorrow in the trip to tel aviv. he has been unequivocal in his support. he made a couple of speeches last week. he's going literally to stand

shoulder to shoulder with prime minister benjamin netanyahu. what do you expect behind the scenes, the solidarity is an important view, what is he going to talk with the prime minister about. >> let's talk about the debate in the u.s. whether or not the president was going to make the trip. he has been strong about supporting israel. there was concern about making this trip, that it could inflame tensions in the region, provoke more attacks from hamas. obviously it's a very delicate security situation there. yesterday the secretary of state had to shelter multiple times because there were air-raid sirens going off in tel aviv. we recall president biden went to kyiv in february. they don't think hamas will listen as well as perhaps moscow did. there is some state of alrm -- alarm. the president is doing benjamin netanyahu a political favor. president biden very popular in israel right now. netanyahu eager for the association. the matter trumps the politics. that's what the white house aides keep telling me, they want

to have the president show solidarity. there's more than that. he's going to push the idea of this gaza operation. they allow civilians to leave, and there was timing here. the president wanted to make sure he would go to israel before israel goes in to gaza to try and make that push to say, look, the civilians here, let's make sure as many of them get out as possible, and part two of this is after israel he heads to jordan, and he's going to meet with arab world leaders, particularly egypt, and newscast -- that's going to be a real focus, pushing them to let egypt do their part to help palestinians escape gaza. >> i would love to go through your last stance or just for our viewers, friends at home that are watching, to understand right now how the world is split. of course we've got the west, especially with the poland win by donald tusk's coalition.

a unified west, europe, whether you're talking about israel or ukraine. you talked about the global south, and we can go from colombia to the uae to india, countries that are more nonaligned right now. joe biden has been able to consolidate nato, but it's interesting the very things you're saying about israel you could say about ukraine. talk about that continued battle for the hearts and the minds of the global south. >> yeah, i mean, clearly it's an issue. i mean, no doubt that china and russia see that as a principle objective, to win over the global south, as far as possible because they consider that collective vote, if you like, to be an important one. and then i would just say one thing, joe, you know, europeans

may not be as united as we think. they have struggled, suspended aid to gaza. then they reversed it. i'm told there was actually fury when ursula von delayen went to israel and failed for explicit cause for restraint. it was on sunday night that all the 27 countries of europe united in a statement to say we strongly emphasize israel's right to defend itself in line with humanitarian and international law but also reiterate the importance of ensuring the protection of civilians. so just think about the europeans who are worrying. one european diplomat said to me that worrying about their local situation, we just saw that alleged terror attack overnight in brussels. they're worried about their situation. one european diplomat said to me, we don't want to import this

crisis. so there's a lot of nervousness in a lot of places about how this plays out. and if you talk about the arab world, it is understandable that arab leaders will have front of mind the view of the arab street. that hasn't gone away despite the abraham accords. in terms of the global south, the message that china and russia try to send, you may think it's laughable, they try to send the message that we're the underdogs just like you, we're on your side, and that i think is the danger. if that takes hold, the idea that the palestinians are the underdogs, this starts to turn the wrong way. i think that's part of the reason why you have president biden so concerned about the idea of an israeli occupation of gaza. coming up, senator chris coons is standing by. he serves on the foreign relations committee and will weigh in on what is unfolding in the middle east right now when "morning joe" comes right back. k

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former president donald trump cannot make disparaging comments about prosecutors or potential witnesses in his federal election interference case. that decision announced yesterday by a u.s. district judge, tanya chutkan. prosecutors originally asked for a more comprehensive gag order, . she did impose a restriction on all parties, including trump banned them from making or reposting statements publicly targeting the special counsel or his staff as well as court staff members or personnel. in her ruling judge chutkan rejected the argument that he should be able to say what he wants because he's running for

president. i cannot imagine any other criminal case in which the defendant is permitted to call the prosecutor deranged or a thug, and i will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running a political campaign. trump responded at a campaign rally in iowa last night. >> they think the only way they can catch me is to stop me from speaking. they want to take away my voice, and a judge gave a gag order today. did you hear that, on speech. which i believe is totally unconstitutional what she said. a judge gave a gag order. the judge doesn't like me too much. her life is not liking me. >> trump says he will appeal the gag order ruling. let's bring in former u.s. attorney, senior fbi official chuck rosenberg, and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle, and white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri, cohost of the msnbc podcast "how to win

2024," something the former president said, gag orders are constitutional, are they not? >> they are, if they're narrowly tailored, willie, and this seems to be. i could imagine a gag order that goes too far. i could imagine a gag order that doesn't go far enough. i think judge chutkan hit the happy middle. the harder question is when he almost inevitably violates the gag order. it's one thing to write one. judges are used to having criminal defendants in front of them, and they're used to having these defendants abide by court orders. even criminals can conform their behavior in front of most federal judges. i think the question is inevitable when he violates the gag order, what next. >> chuck, let's take that speech last night, that event, for example, he specifically went after the judge. the gag order is about the prosecutors themselves. where is the line on all of this?

we know he won't be able to control himself in front of a crowd. he violates the gag order or goes after the prosecutor or witness in the federal case, this applies to the federal case, what happens next? >> a judge under those circumstances, willie, will have a bunch of options, they're not all easily to implement. she could reprimand him, reissue the order and remind him of his obligations. this is at the low end of the spectrum. she could revoke his bond and imprison him. that could introduce a host of logistical technical difficulties. he has the secret service detail, and he's running for president. where on that spectrum she lands if he violates, it i don't know. she may not even know. you know, we use the word unique a lot, and frankly, i think it tends to be over used. this is unique. she sees him as a defendant running for president. he thinks of himself as someone running for president who also

happens to be a defendant. they're coming at it from a very different direction, and so when he inevitably violates her order in some way, i think the hard question is what does she do next, and i don't really know the answer. it's hard to imagine putting mr. trump while he's a candidate running for president in prison. >> let's make this simple. i understand he's running for president. political speech is protected. i understand he has a right to campaign. she said he's even allowed to say the process is rigged if he wants to. at the same time, as the judge stated in her order, she cannot imagine any other trial where you would have a defendant allowed to run out calling prosecutors thugs. i can't imagine any criminal case which a defendant is permitted t call the prosecutor deranged or a thug, and i will

not permit it here simply because the defendant is running for a political campaign. this is unique. what is not unique is the fact that he's a criminal defendant, and she's exactly right. he cannot. he cannot. because no criminal defendant that i have ever heard of has been able to attack members of the court. officers of the court, the way donald trump is. >> right. okay. so a couple of things are simple, joe. you're right. he's a criminal defendant. she's right. the order she issued is narrowly tailored and designed to accomplish all of those purposes you just explained. that said, what does she do when he violates it? and i don't know that there's a lot of other data points for us, frankly, joe. there aren't a lot of cases like this. i can't think of any, so, yeah, in some ways it's simple, he's a criminal defendant, and he has to abide her order. fine, good, got it.

>> again, i'm sorry, he's running for president. that's awesome. under the united states of america, under our laws, we believe that nobody is above the law. what would happen if in a case that you were trying, any case that you were trying where a criminal defendant said don't go out and call us thugs and he goes on the court steps, calls the defendant thugs. i don't know where you practice, where i practiced, the judge would call him back in, hold him in contempt of court and throw him in jail. >> where i practice if somebody violated a court order, the judge would haul them back in, hold them in contempt and sanction them. maybe fine them, maybe put them in jail, but they would certainly sanction them. you and i agree on that, joe. there's a problem here, though, it's much more difficult than that, and so i take it that, you know, we all ought to try and find the simple answer. i don't know that there is one. first of all, how do you put

somebody with a secret service detail in prison? second, because the first amendment absolutely protects political speech, tell me precisely what the line is between political speech and, criticism let's say of mr. biden and the justice department and speech that violates her order. i don't know. maybe i'm not smart enough to figure out where the line clearly lies. >> i think you're extraordinarily smart and i'm just a simple country lawyer, it seems to me you get called back in. you don't create one set of rules for donald trump. >> there's no ambiguity. just bring him back? >> i understand it's a complicated issue, and it has to be acted upon with nuance, but if he continues to attack and insult members of the court, i'm quite confident that john roberts' supreme court will rule

with the judge that there h to be an orderly procedure inside the courtroom, if there's something that's constantly attacking the validity of the court, and trying to undermine a federal judge and other officer of the court, i don't think the roberts court would see it as that complicated so long as it is narrowly tailored to the contours of actually running the case in a manageable, professional way, and if he steps out of line, you sanction him, and if he steps out of line, sanction him again, and if he steps out of line the third time, every judge would throw him in jail. >> put an ankle bracelet on him, and throw him in mar-a-lago. >> i don't think we're saying something different here. i agree with you, joe and mika, if he continues to flout a judge's order, and that order is narrowly tailored to ensure an orderly proceeding in her courtroom, appellate court,

supreme court, they're going to back her. judges have the right and the obligation, by the way, to run their court in an orderly and efficient manner. that's not the hard part. the hard part is determining what speech violates her order. let's say as he did in iowa last night, that he criticizes the justice department or president biden, that seems to be fair game. if he goes after witnesses, that seems to be in violation of her order. it's almost inevitable, joe and mika, that he's going to do something like that. he's making money off of it. his polls are going up because of it. why wouldn't he? he has never shown an ability to conform his behavior. okay, at what point does she simply fine him. at what point does she find that he needs -- and mika is right, maybe an ankle bracelet is an alternative to imprisonment, incarceration, ending trial. i don't think these are easy decisions for any federal judge,

and i don't know what the triggering event will be. i just fear that there will be one. >> oh,chuck, there's no about that. there is going to be one because of what we just saw in the clip coming in. every time this former president speaks, he says something to indict himself in one way or the other in his ramblings, the clip that we showed coming into the segment, he said that the gag order, when explaining what the judge did to him, by implementing a gag order that they think it's the only way that they can catch me. the only way that they can catch me. in other words, he's done something wrong, so my question to you is, what do we do, never mind legally, what do we do as a country, as a culture, when we have a former president who nearly every time he speaks extemporaneously indicts himself? >> yeah, it's interesting. well, look, first of all, mike,

we indicted him. the justice department has indicted him. we don't need him to indict himself. he has been indicted in four places on 91 counts. the country, the system of justice has reacted properly to a former president who is a criminal. that process is actually working. i don't think people need to despair. that process in four different place, in two states, and in federal court is actually working. i think a lot of what's incumbent on us is how much attention we pay to this man. i think, frankly, it's far too much. i am heartened by the fact that prosecutors are doing their job in federal court in new york and georgia. i'm heartened by the fact that we have judges like judge chutkan who are trying to administer justice in a fair and even handed and efficient manner. i think these are good things, not bad things, and sometimes i

think we focus too much on what mr. trump says. i'm very happy to ignore . judg. i know the judge has to pay attention, and administer her work, and this process. but i think we pay way too much attention to what this man says. >> former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, always love having your expertise on this stuff. thank you so much for being here. jen, you have been out with the circus, out watching republican candidates talk about donald trump. it has to be said, and yes, he still has the massive lead in the primary, how small he has looked, really since the war began in israel, the attack in israel, by hamas. criticizing netanyahu, publicly praising hezbollah as smart. just in the images, sitting at a defendant's table being told to shut up effectively by a judge yesterday, how is the primary shaping up as you get out in the field and listen to some of these other candidates talk about him?

>> so i went to a trump event in wolfboro, new hampshire, last monday, so after the attacks, pretty buttoned up, talked about low income heating assistance. he talked about -- energy is a big issue in new england. the whales came into play. we did hear about the whales but it was buttoned up on hamas, and then wednesday after netanyahu said so many nice things about president biden, after we saw billboards in tel aviv saying thank you, president biden, that's when he went unhinged. it did feel different with the republican candidates. i saw desantis, and berlin, we covered nikki haley a lot. i talked to mike pence about this, they all sensed like something had changed after wednesday night that this was more serious, more unhinged, more reckless. whether they're in a position to do anything about it, i don't think any of them, you know --

they're pretty uncertain about that. >> it's a pretty rare moment when republicans have dared to take on trump, and more i think the reaction from the trump camp has been telling. this is a rare statement where they have really tried to walk it back, done a lot of damage control. >> they did not double down as they always do. their big hit on desantis was his attack on me doesn't make sense. not that it was wrong, it was taken out of context. not doubling down on what trump actually said, trying to back off. >> exactly right. it's not that trump hasn't repeated those things. it's a tick when they call, he goes further. his campaign has put out multiple statements trying to mitigate this. joe, mika, we will see. odds are, if it's another moment file away for the general election next year. another moment, combination of the statements about israel, this gag order, impending court

dates, another moment that would probably make him not palatable for those independent and swing voters who are going to decide this election next year. coming up is congressman jim jordan closing in on the speaker's gavel, an update on his bid to become second in line for the presidency, straight ahead on "morning joe." , straigt ahead on "morning joe. can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to.

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pac supporting former new jersey governor chris christie taking on former president donald trump over his recent comments praising hezbollah. >> as israel fights hamas in gaza in the south of israel, the idf traded rocket fire with hezbollah. >> the ties between hezbollah and iran are far greater, far more organized. >> hezbollah is lebanon's most powerful armed group and is committed to israel's destruction. >> hezbollah is very smart. they're all very smart. >> he's a fool. only a fool would make those

kind of comments. only a fool would give comments that could give aid and comfort to israel's adversary. this is someone who cares not about the american people, not about the people of israel, but he cares about one person and one person only, the person he sees in the mirror when he wakes up in the morning. we cannot, once again, nominate a fool like this and get him anywhere near the presidency of the united states and having a fool like donald trump who would make those comments in the tone that he made them is proven to folks he has no business being president of the united states. >> you know, mike barnicle, earlier this week you talked about how we're coming up on the 40th anniversary of the commemoration, actually, a very sad date of over 200 americans being blown up and killed by hezbollah. hezbollah continues their reign of terror, targeting of our allies, targeting of americans, and here you have donald trump saying they're very smart

people, just like he said it about president xi, just like he said it about kim jong un, and he admitted that he got along better with authoritarians. chris christie saying what a lot of republican votersre thinking, it's about time you have republican candidates that are coming out and calling donald trump what he is. >> and, joe, that anniversary, by the way, is october 23rd. it's coming up. the marine corps barracks blown up by hezbollah, very smart people according to the former president. the root of why he says all of those things, jonathan alluded to it a couple of minutes ago, it's always about someone saying something positive about joe biden, something positive about how biden did something with netanyahu, how biden did something positive for israel and people in israel love president biden, and developed a tick in donald trump that he

reverts to always himself, not the policy, not the dangers inherent in what's going on in israel and the middle east right now, always about himself. i mean, it's a disease that he carries. >> coming up, a live report from israel where president biden will arrive tomorrow on a high stakes visit. a preview of the trip straight ahead on "morning joe." joe. what was it like before viasat satellite internet? two words: not fun. times up. sharing's caring! but now with viasat's new plans, we have plenty of internet. for everyone! learn more about our plans at viasat.com as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth.

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. let's get to the speaker situation. republican congressman jim jordan is trying to rally support ahead of a planned vote today on the house floor for speaker of the house, set to take place at noon eastern. republican sources tell nbc news the ohio lawmaker is within five to ten republican votes of securing the 217 needed to win the speakership. axios reports at least four house republicans who jordan spoke with say they believe he'll allow a floor vote on

linking ukraine funding with israel funding if he wins the gavel. but a spokesperson for jordan tells axios he did not make any specific promises. >> what's so fascinating about this is that he was there on january 6th calling donald trump. he was there in the middle of all of this. there's that famous moment where liz cheney is trying to leave the chamber as the mob trying to kill them, and jim jordan tries to help her and she says to jim jordan, get away from me, you effing did this. she said that in realtime. everybody understood he was in the middle of january 6th and in his own way responsible for it. i cannot believe republicans

from biden districts would vote for this guy that's so attached to trying to overthrow american democracy. >> it just goes to show how far this party has fallen when now they are poised and it will happen eventually that jim jordan will be the speaker of the house of representatives. as you say, not a passive observer on january 6th around the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. he was central to it. he was on the phone in the days before january 6th with rudy giuliani and the team that was scheming to overthrow the election results. he texted on january 5th mark meadows offering a plan to hold up the results and not certify joe biden. he voted along with a whole bunch of republicans not to certify the results in a couple of states. now here we are with a guy who also by the way as chairman of

the house judiciary committee is helping to lead the idea that joe biden should be impeached. that's where we are. let's bring mychael schnell. is jim jordan going to be the speaker of the house? >> it's a coin toss. he picked up momentum yesterday, flipping four key holdouts and a number of over lawmakers threw their endorsement behind him. but he's not out of the woods yet. last night a handful of republicans, at least six, said they plan to vote against jim jordan on the floor today at noon. this will all become a mass problem for jim jordan. he needs that 217 votes on the floor to clench the gavel. there's some reporting one

republican congressman will miss the voting at noon today. that means jim jordan will only be able to lose three republican votes and still clench the gavel, assuming all over lawmakers are present, voting for a candidate and that democrats are fully in support of hakeem jeffries, which of course is widely expected to happen. it's going to be a photo finish for jim jordan at noon today because he doesn't have the votes. coming up, our next guest offers a simple guide to the most misunderstood country on earth. country on earth.

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power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." a live shot of los angeles for you. it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east and 4:00 p.m. in israel, where president biden will land overnight tonight in what will be his second trip into an

active war zone this year. this visit comes as 2,000 u.s. troops are preparing for a potential deployment to the middle east in a show of support as israel prepares for its expected ground invasion of gaza to root out hamas terrorists. efforts are currently under way to establish a diplomatic safe zone for palestinian civilians in the targeted area. willie. >> let's go right to richard engel live from the israel/gaza border. what's the latest there? >> reporter: one of the main focuses right now in addition to war planning is establishing some sort of humanitarian safe zone for the people of gaza, a way to get humanitarian aid into the people and to prevent hamas from taking it. all of that is still under way.

for the first time hamas says it is open to the possibility of freeing foreign hostages. it has put out video to show they're in good shape. israel is continuing this morning to pound the gaza strip on its mission to destroy hamas as hundreds of thousands of israeli troops ring the area, ready for a ground invasion after hamas killed 1400 israelis and took hostages, including women, the disabled and children. hamas continues to fire rockets deep into israel. and in the north from lebanon, hezbollah is firing on israeli troops and positions along the border, threatening to open a second front. hezbollah could even send its fighters across the border into israel. and iran this morning is making new threats of unspecified preemptive strikes if israel continues attacks into gaza. secretary blinken said president

biden will soon arrive on the most difficult and dangerous trip of his presidency. >> a plan that will enable humanitarian aid to reach civilians in gaza. >> reporter: the u.s. has deployed two aircraft carrier strike groups to the eastern mediterranean and 2,000 american troops are on standby, a clear message the united states is ready to back israel in a wider war. but there are signs of hope, that diplomacy and deterrence may be working. overnight, hamas released a video of a hostage held in gaza, a young woman who the group says is in good health. it's unclear when the video was taken. in a potential major development, the spokesman for hamas's military wing said the group is hold 200 hostages and is willing to release the foreigners among them, which include americans, saying they

were taken by accident and are not part of the fight with israel. they say the foreigners will be released when field conditions are right. in gaza the humanitarian crisis is growing as hundreds of thousands follow israel's order to move south out of the way of a possible ground assault. discussions are under way for humanitarian supplies to enter gaza and provide relief for the 2.3 million palestinians cut off from food, electricity and water. >> my god. richard, you have obviously spent your adult life in war zones. we are used to seeing your extraordinary reporting. we are not used to president of the united states going into war zones and yet the president of the united states going to a war zone yet again. you were with him on that trip in ukraine. now he's coming to israel. talk about that.

>> reporter: so i wasn't with the president on the trip to ukraine, but i was in ukraine at the time. people were surprised. he took a train coming in from poland as kyiv and the rest of the country was under russian attack. if you remember, u.s. officials made it clear to russia, do not strike, do not even think about striking. there was a degree of confidence that vladimir putin understood that. he understood the deterrence that it would not be in his interest to try to assassinate the president of the united states. clearly the united states is again signaling that message of deterrence. in a way this trip is a show of confidence that president biden is going to come and while these warships are in the area threats have certainly been conveyed to iran. in russia you only had one actor, vladimir putin, who's been in power for decades who

himself is president and knows the risk of attacking another president. here you have hamas, hezbollah and iran, and they're a lot less predictable. >> richard engel, thank you very much. joining us now, democratic senator chris coons of delaware, a member of the foreign relations committee. >> thank you so much for being with us, senator. we just heard richard engel say we have three actors right now that we have to deal with, hamas, hezbollah and iran. yet it's three heads of the same body which starts in tehran. what can the united states do moving forward to put more pressure on iran or turn the screws more on iran so they're not able to continue funding terrorism at the levels they have over the past several

years? >> it's great to be on with you. i'm encouraged that president biden is making this risky but important trip to show solidarity with israel, to meet with the king of jordan and the leader of egypt and to engage with the region. ten days ago, as we all know, the world woke up to horrific attacks, a massacre by hamas terrorists of 1300 israeli civilians, which included 30 americans. this is a moment when we need a president leading on the world stage with decades of experience, a seasoned leader like president biden who understands these complex regional dynamics. we can and should strengthen and continue the engagement with other regional actors like saudi arabia, like egypt, like jordan, who are already at peace with israel or willing to consider making peace with israel to strengthen israel's security in the region and to strengthen

israel and the region's ability to deter and push back on iran. we in the senate should take up additional measures to sanction iran, to confirm ambassadors. we lack ambassadors to most of the critical countries in the region, israel, egypt and a half dozen others, and to make sure we're showing here in congress the sort of solid bipartisan support that israel deserves and needs in this moment. >> as israel prepares what is expected to be a massive ground invasion, what is your sense of the responsibility of israel and perhaps the united states and the president this week to lean on the prime minister on the humanitarian crisis unfolding inside of gaza, that is, to get civilians out of harm's way. how important is egypt?

>> egypt is critical. that's why secretary blinken has been traveling throughout the region, tirelessly engaging with egyptian leadership and other leaders because we also have concerned about the humanitarian consequences in gaza. there is no country in the region volunteering to take gazan refugees, palestinian refugees from gaza. but we are trying to negotiate getting humanitarian aid into gaza, getting the water and electricity turned back on. this is a very difficult operating environment for the israeli defense forces. their effort to go into gaza to root out hamas is going to be undertaken in what is a very difficult tactical situation both from a military perspective and a humanitarian perspective. it's my hope that the negotiations that secretary blinken has been leading now that president biden is soon on his way will lead to some

engagement by egypt to allow humanitarian relief in through the southern end of gaza. >> senator, once you separate the most vicious terrorist attack on israel that killed more jews in a single day perhaps than in any event since the holocaust, once you separate that from what's going on in gaza, you see a parade of misery in gaza. the president is going to jordan. you've got egypt, saudi arabia, the uae and bahrain and on and on and on in the arab world, and they willot accept any palestinians. why is that? >> well, this is part of the ongoing challenge of the region, that the palestinians and their cause has largely been left to

the side. netanyahu has been doing things in recent years to change facts on the ground in a way that makes a two-state solution harder and harder to imagine, and this brutal terrorist attack by hamas, frankly, focuses the mind of all in israel on why they would ever considering negotiating with someone like hamas. so israelis, who withdrew from gaza in 2005 pulled out the settlers, handed back gaza to palestinian control. israelis look at the situation in the west bank and in gaza and say who are we supposed to negotiate with? the arab states in the region express their sympathy, their support, but have not provided the funding or the development assistance to turn gaza or the west bank into livable, sustainable places. we are going to have to lead in

this moment. american presidents now for more than a decade have been trying to pivot to asia. we keep getting pulled back into the middle east. as this ground invasion begins, i hope our president and secretary of state and many of us here in the senate will be asking the question what comes after. it is completely understandable that israel is seeking vengeance, but it is also from our own experience in afghanistan a question we have to ask. what comes next? how is there any path toward justice for the victims and peace between israelis and palestinians? we must promptly begin trying to prepare the ground for some future path in which we can imagine some peaceful resolution to all this on the far side of this terrible conflict. >> chris coons of delaware, thank you very much for coming on this morning.

as israel prepares for a widely expected ground invasion of gaza, the political future of benjamin netanyahu is in question. over the weekend israelis took to the streets in tel aviv to protest against the israeli prime minister. joining us is david rothcof. you say the israeli prime minister's political ambitions are likely damaged beyond repair. the prime minister is almos certain to be brought down and many of his highest priorities dashed due to the widespread perception among the israeli public that it was netanyahu's leadership failures tha put the public at risk of the attack. thos who track israeli public

opinion and who also remember the inily a half century ago of prime minister golda meir to hold onto her office for the intelligence failures that led toheom kippur war. a racist, corrupt, egomaniacal is unlikely to beed by netanyahu anyone of good character or anyone who has aspirations for a more just middle east. >> let's begin by talking about how long benjamin netanyahu has been prime minister and how many times he's survived political problems. >> he's under indictment. >> yeah, under indictment, still

elected. this obviously is far different. what i would love to focus on is what you say about benjamin netanyahu, how that may have led to security failures that led to this tragedy. we heard for some time that he'd gotten out some secular intel military leaders who were extraordinarily successful. they were, of course, the people pushing back against his efforts to undermine the supreme court and the rule of law. talk about how you believe that put israel in a position where they were fighting each other instead of preparing for hamas? >> well, we've come off of 40-odd -- excuse me, 42 weeks of israelis protesting against netanyahu for his efforts to undermine democracy in this country. among those people protesting against netanyahu were people in

the military, people in the intelligence community. that led to a lot of tension there. >> by the way, you say people in the military and the intel community. it was predominantly those groups in the government, right? that's what we were hearing, that they were the first to stand up and say, this is not israel. we're not going to allow you to undermine democracy. >> that's right. you also heard from former generals in the military saying this was on netanyahu, that he was focused on things in the west bank, he was focused on satisfying the far right in his administration, he was not focused on the warnings that were coming with regard to the south and gaza. and he's focused on his own plight. he has a legal plight. he's potentially going to go to

jail if he's convicted of the crimes he's accused of. he sees, as trump seeing, his holding onto the prime minister's office as one to have ways that he can forestall that kind of legal fate. all that has led to the situation that has made many people in israel and 4 out of 5 israelis in a recent poll say this is on netanyahu, that what happened, the conditions that led israel to be vulnerable to this attack are the fault of benjamin netanyahu. >> there have been some voices in the administration that counselled against president biden traveling to israel this week for security reasons, yes, but also because it was perceived as giving a political lifeline to netanyahu. netanyahu is eager to have the association. he wanted a white house visit

earlier this year. now of course was quick to invite the president here. what's your analysis of the president of the united states' trip to israel? >> the moment joe biden arrives tomorrow he's going to be the most popular politician in israel. what he did with his speech and the action of sending the carrier groups has met with widespread approval in israel. i think political calculations were set aside by the biden administration and by the president's advisors. they felt it was essential for the president to go, not only to show support for israel, but to ensure that israel stayed within the bounds of international law, that they prioritized

humanitarian issues and they would also keep their eye on something senator coons mentioned, which is a long term solution. it's not just about vengeance. if israel removes hamas, somebody's got to govern gaza. there has to be somebody to talk to to negotiate some future political settlement. i think the administration felt if they don't go there and emphasize that, these things may not be priorities for netanyahu or the folks around him. coming on "morning joe," is congressman jim jordan on the cusp of becoming the next house speaker? ali vitale joins us live from capitol hill with her reporting. plus, donald trump is under a partial gag order in his

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georgia. >> great. >> new york city. >> that's the bankruptcy. >> new york is the bankruptcy one. great. hard to keep them straight. >> there's a lot of them. >> there's way too many. >> i think they're just trying to throw him in jail. it's a witch hunt, like what he said in new york. >> pre or post or first indictment? >> that was the lady charges. >> was that stormy daniels or the sexual assault? >> sexual assault. >> are you 100% sure you're voting for donald trump in the next election? >> yeah. >> an update on the federal

election interference case against trump, u.s. district judge tanya chutkan announced yesterday the former president cannot make disparaging comments about prosecutors are witnesses. judge chutkan refused to put restrictions on trump's statements about washington, d.c., criticisms of the government or the department of justice. she did impose a restriction on all parties, including trump, bannin them from making or reposting any statements publicly targeting the special counsel or his staff as well as court staff or personnel. in her ruling, judge chutkan rejected trump's arguments that he should be allowed to say what he wants because he's running for president. quote, mr. trump can certainly claim he's being unfairly prosecuted, but i cannot imagine any other criminal case in which a defendant is permitted to call

the prosecutor deranged or a thug, and i will not permit it here simply because the defendant is running a political campaign. trump responded at a campaign rally in iowa last night. >> they think the only way they can catch me is to stop me from speaking. they want to take away my voice. a judge gave a gag order today. did you hear that? on speech, which i believe is totally unconstitutional what she did. the judge doesn't like me too much. her whole life is not liking me. >> i think the judge was almost unanimously confirmed by the united states senate. it's funny, he says that the only way they can catch me is through a gag order. no, no. you've already been caught selling nuclear secrets. you've already been caught stealing war plans that we could

kinda use on a possible attack on iran. you've already been caught trying to put together a conspiracy to steal the election but fraudulent electors. you've already been caught in so many things. this gag order is a feather in the wind. let's bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance. joyce, i know a lot of people are very concerned about how difficult it's going to be to enforce a gag order against a guy running for president of the united states. i will just say where i'm from in the redneck riviera in northwest florida, if you call a prosecutor in a federal court a thug or deranged, that's really actually not a difficult question to handle at all, because any federal judge i ever practiced in front of would

throw any defendant straight in jail for contempt of court if they ignored one of his orders. >> yeah. it's not a tough call for you, joe. it's not a tough call where i practiced. and clearly it was not a tough call for judge chutkan. the gag order shows she's very deliberate and thoughtful about where this is headed. it's a carefully tailored order. it protects the rights of candidates that she will hold him accountable. >> what's the line for a judge? we just heard donald trump calling this gag order unconstitutional. it's not, of course. but what is the line for the judge that has to be crossed? >> she was very clear that there

is not certainty among the different federal courts of appeals about what the standard is for imposing a gag order. she said i'm simply going to assume that the most stringent standard applies and using that standard i conclude that a gag order is merited in this case. and, again, she has created this line between political speech and comments on the speech. judges usually like to apply progressive discipline in these situations. they'll admonish a center or impose a gag order. they might give the defendant a second try after a first violation of the gag order. this situation is unique. when trump was arraigned, the image state judge said, you can't threaten witnesses.

you can't try to retaliate against anyone. he already was given that warning because everyone knew where this was headed. this judge that imposed a gag order, i think she means business. >> i want to talk to you about that aspect you just raised of the gag order. it has to do with the cost of security for court personnel, including jack smith and some of the people working for him, but also the language that the former president continues to use whether he violates the gag order or not. you've seen in the past his language and behavior does attract people to act. your experiences today with court personnel who you were familiar with, is that fear out there? is it a genuine fear they have? >> prosecutors are hard wired to

internalize these situations. we've all had cases where someone has threatened up. usually it doesn't come from inside the federal government and certainly not a commander in chief who used to be at the top of federal law enforcement. but setting that aside, when it comes to talking about court personnel, witnesses who are worried about themselves and they're families, this sort of conduct is completely out of bounds. it's appropriate for this judge to restrain this defendant just like any other defendant would be restrained from putting people at risk because of the facts of their government service. >> former u.s. attorney joyce vance, thank you so much. in washington less than three hours from now a vote is expected in the house for a new speaker. congressman jim jordan of ohio is the republicans' latest nominee for that position.

joining us now, ali vitale. good morning. is it going to get to 217 today? >> that's the big question. we're asking it yet again. you're right to present this as the republicans' latest nominee for speaker because jordan is certainly not the first person we've seen vie for this job and fall short. last week we thought it was going to be congressman steve scalise who was going to the floor for a vote. just 24 or 36 hours later he dropped his bid and jordan took that space. power abhors a vacuum. we're watching jordan try to step into the open position here. jordan went from being a fringe flame thrower within the house freedom caucus in its earliest days to now being within striking distance of becoming

speaker of the house at a time when the house has never been more polarized or partisan. nevertheless, we are watching moderates in biden-won districts from 2020 coming out and saying they will support jim jordan as speaker. to me, it's a sign of the fatigue in this building over the course of the last two plus weeks as they have been leaderless and we've only seen urgency grow on the world stage. i don't think this is going to be easy for jim jordan. we're going to see them go to the floor around noon and the first vote around 12:30. i think they're going to go several rounds here. it sort of gives members who have concerns about jordan the chance to vote against him for the first few rounds and then maybe fall in line. there's also the possibility we see now what we saw back in january which is some members just voting present which

throwers the threshold from that number of 217 to something below that. that's just one of the possibilities we're seeing here. jordan and his allies say he's willing to go multiple rounds. >> it's striking that in recent days jordan has picked up the support of some of his fellow republicans who previously said they were never jordans. per the latest tallies, he's still a little short. if he can't do it, is there someone out there waiting in the wings to give it a shot? >> reporter: there's always someone waiting in the wings. it's the house of representatives. >> who is it then? >> reporter: we've heard some people float the idea of consensus candidates, people like tom cole or mike gallagher. i still think that's a

far-fetched scenario because we've seen moderates fall in line behind jordan more quickly than they will vote for hakeem jeffries. that's still something that some democrats are holding out hope for. i do think with jordan, the numbers that we doesn't have right now, they think that by going to the floor and putting the public pressure on, after going several rounds of this, they think that will combine to allow him to get the numbers that he needs to become speaker. if he fails and they have to go back to the drawing board for now the third time, i don't know that that room can contain the frustration i've heard from republican members, who are so upset this is what their majority has devolved into. there are some names we hear percolating in whispers. here's something i've been thinking about a lot since last

week, the idea that jim jordan had a week and a half worth of lead time on his whip operation for the closed-door vote at the end of last week, and austin scott from georgia jumped in the race and was able to garner 80-some-odd votes. i talked to him after and said were you surprised? he just sort of shrugged and said i had no whip operation. it's not like there's this big kumbaya moment from within the party. there are a lot of people who have reluctance about jordan being speaker. it might not be enough to derail him, but it certainly still exists. >> thank you very much. we'll see what happens. mike barnicle, i wanted to talk to you about crime for a second. violent crime fell nationwide in

2022. violent crime across the u.s. decreased last year, dropping to about the same level as before the onset of the covid-19 pandemic. so violent crime actually lower than it's been since before the pandemic in 2019. good news. bad news. despite the waning violence, property crimes jumped 70%. carjackings increased 8% since 2021. here we have a picture of violent crime down lower than since before covid. again, we have these property crimes. that's what people see when they see these images of people going into stores and stealing whatever and stores closing. you go into any store in a lot of major cities and you can't buy a toothbrush without asking

somebody to take it out of the container. so in these numbers there's good news and bad news. the good news, violent crime is down. the bad news is that property theft is up. >> you know, joe, you used several keywords there. that's what people see. crime is visible. it has a visible impact on people who see certain things. not many people see murders. not many people see kidnappings. a few people might see assault and batteries. but everyone sees their toothpaste locked up in drugstores. everyone sees someone who has had a car stolen. everyone knows and sees evidence of like carjackings in major cities or hear of other assaults and batteries. that's what they remember when the pollsters ask them what do you think the situation is today with crime. it's worse than ever. it's like with political polls. you know, they react to what

they see. the numbers on joe biden are visible numbers because of what people see. people see migrants on the sidewalks of cities. people see cities and states trying to cope financially with migrants who are visible to everyone. people see the price of eggs going up. it's all visible, what you see. >> it's all visible. it wasn't popular when i said it at the time. it's probably not popular, but i thought it was a really stupid idea to try to pass criminal justice reform when crime rates were at 50-year lows. that's not when you do it. now, if you want to pass criminal justice reform when things are bad, you have a more clear-eyed view of how things usually are year in and year out. it's sort of policing that led

to the cleaning up of new york city. you know, activists have always freaked out about the broken windows theory, worrying about the small crimes and going after the big crimes. well, you know, the small crimes have now moved up to you can steal up to a thousand dollars of somebody's possessions and that's cool with d.a.'s. that's what led to this chaos. that's why we have seen a continued escalation on these property crimes. >> yeah. it's great news violent crime is down. i think some people who roll their eyes or kind of blow off this idea that property crime matters, that the larger issues, immigration at the border, some democrats and progressives say that's overblown. i think you do that at your own political peril.

this is the kind of thing people see and worry about visiting their lives. i think the biden administration has started to understand that, especially on immigration, that this is real and they better do something about it. >> have they started to understand that, jonathan? >> they have. governor pritzker in illinois who's hosting the democratic convention next summer in chicago has been a very powerful friend to the biden administration and was sharply critical in recent weeks. they are aware. the situation overseas has dominated the headlines, but certainly it is a reflection that they understand they need to do more at the border when this big package they're trying to put forward to the congress to fund is a nod to republicans

but a recognition they have a political problem on their own hands. >> to democratic mayors in new york city, democratic governors in new york state, in illinois and a lot of very, very democratic states, this is a bipartisan issue. coming up on "morning joe," our next guest is an israeli activist, whose videos on the events in her homeland have garnered millions of views. the former israel special envoy for combatting anti-semitism joins us straight ahead. >> israel is on the front lines of that worldwide war against that radical ideology. israel is the first line of defense for this ideology coming to america and coming to europe. let's vow to define liberty, democracy and justice for all. t democracy and justice for all.

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>> joining us in studio the special envoy noa tishby, who founded act for israel. her social media videos on why the attacks against israel should matter to all americans have gone viral. she's also the author of a bike titled "israel, a simple guide to the most misunderstood country on earth." thank you for being here. a native of tel aviv, what can you tell us about your friends, your family and your fellow israelis and what they're feeling 12 days after this attack? >> this is a shock for the israeli people and the jewish community and should be a shock for anybody who believes in western values, frankly. this is extraordinarily personal for me, because i have nieces and nephews on the front lines and actually fighting the fight

on the ground. in terms of the jewish community, we've been warning about anti-semitism on the rise for a very long time. every single member of the jewish community around america and the world has been feeling threatened and unsafe and we've been talking about this for a long time. anti-semitism is on the right and the left. on the right it sounds like jews are using lasers to burn california. it's easy to identify that as anti-semitic. it's harder to identify anti-semitism on the left, which is actually anti-zionism. this vilification of israel such that we have desensitized ourselves to the pain of israelis such that after going through what we have been through, which is one of the most sadistic massacres around the world, people in the west

from harvard university to the streets of new york to the streets of london are holding rallies in the streets to support hamas. they are like, yeah, we see this massacre, but what did israel do to deserve this? this is extraordinarily disturbing for the israeli people. >> this has exposed so much of that in some ways sort of cloaked anti-semitism. prime minister netanyahu has vowed that hamas will be wiped out, that every member of hamas is a dead man. can you speak to how important this moment right now is even in the scope of israeli history? >> for the world this is important, because what hamas is, it's isis, the taliban, al qaeda, the same ideology of radicalism that is threatening to take all of us. when in iran they chant death for israel and death to america, this is not hyperbole. they actually mean this and they're making plans to do this. israel is the first line of

defense. this should be extraordinarily personal for anybody. you have to understand, when these demonstrations are out on the streets, that's not liberalism. these pro-hamas demonstrations, that's not progressivism. does anybody think that hamas is about freeing palestinians? we should all read the reports about how they're not letting their people evacuate gaza and be very concerned. look, israel gave hamas two days to evacuate. hamas didn't give israel two minutes. the intentionality of this is very important to look at. when you the brutality and the intentionality they did too, i'm sorry to be graphic, but i'm actually not, this slaughtering of babies, the burning them alive, the handcuffing them and people on the ground that are saying that the stories are even worse than what is being

reported, the brutality. when you actually do this, this is very different to the reality, the horrific realities of collateral damage of war. and this is the difference. there is an intentionality of killing. when they go home, hamas militants, hamas terrorists, they're not nice to their own people. they're not progressives. they're not trying to free anybody. >> this terror attack comes against the backdrop of a rise in violence and speech throughout the world. the white house is saying hate crimes are up 25% last year in the united states, we have seen similar rises of certain parts of europe too. to what do you attribute that and what can be done about it? >> not dropped, it went up, it surged. there has been an erosion. people tend to forget throughout history that anti-semitism is the oldest form of hate and discrimination still being practiced today. you can see anti-semitic speeches thousands of years old, as old as the jews. today's anti-semitism is

manifested with antizionism. that's literally what it is. there has been, throughout history, okay, the world has been used to blaming whatever it is that polite society hates on the jew. the jew is blamed in early christianity as the christ killer, later on naziism as the race polluter and days of the soviet union, they're either the capitalist pig or the communist, depends who you're looking at. and right now in our polite society, the worst thing to be is racist, colonialist and apartheidist, and your viewers, and just think for yourselves, what have you been made to believe about israel? all these lies. like, people at home actually thought that israel is committing ethnic cleansing. and this is nothing but subconscious biases that you have around the jewish people, that then affect your opinion of israel. >> so you're from tel aviv. >> yeah. >> according to everyone we have spoken to, in the last nine or ten days, israel has been

traumatized as it has never been traumatized before. people for first time are fearful and have strong feelings about what the government did not do and it is all encapsulated in the phrase, nobody came, the army did not come to protect them, to save them. so my question to you is, and you may not know the answer because we don't know the answer, why has not the prime minister, bibi netanyahu, stood before the cameras and said i apologize to you, we failed you? >> i wish i knew the answer to that. this is a question that literally every single israeli is asking themselves because head of the military, a lot of other politicians have said that. we're all waiting for that apology, but later. there is a saying in israel, at 6:00 p.m. after the war, which means we'll take care of it when we need to take care of it, that is what needs to be done.

i think the responsibility is obviously at the leader of the country. i am sure he's well aware of it, but we're going to deal with it later. right now israel needs to win this war. the israeli people are extraordinarily united. it is kind of unbelievable to watch right now because up until now there was a lot of divide, the judicial overhaul, which i spoke up against as well and lost my job with israeli government, which i'm very happy to do because i believe that you always have to be on the right side of history. right? so, right now we need to take care of unity and we need to take care of winning this war and israeli people that were divided about politics up until october 7th have united in ways that we haven't seen before and it is sad that this is what was needed, but this is happening. >> how important is it, do you believe, for israel to keep track of civilians in gaza and so that you are not hamas, in other words, you are not killing civilians, that you are not --

do you think it is important that israel allows time for the civilians of gaza to move out before they move in? >> absolutely it is important. absolutely. and this is why israel gave notice. look, this is not about revenge. this is about security and sovereignty, which every american needs to understand. right? so israel gave the gazan people two days to evacuate. this is a humanitarian thing to do. and i implore everybody watching this now to read about what hamas is doing to stop the evacuations. so, hamas declared a war on israel, but by that they declared a war on themselves and declared a war on their own people. they know that they have sentenced their people to death. they want this. we have been saying this for so long. hamas and those radical organizations, they don't think like you and i. they don't think the same way. they are looking for as many casualties as they possibly can. they're looking for the visuals

this is why they filmed themselves torturing israelis, so they don't think the way we do and we need to -- the western world needs to be united in this fight against this ideology and it is happening right now at the forefront in israel. >> former israeli special envoy for combatting anti-semitism, noa tishby. thank you for being with us this morning. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart pick up the coverage after the break. and jose diaz-balart pick up the coverage after the break.

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ahead this hour on special coverage, president biden set to depart today for israel, a country at war. >> his visit meant to signal america's full support for israel, but also to press for humanitarian aid to gaza and get americans out of harm's way. plus, hamas releasing the first video of a hostage, a 21-year-old taken from the music festival. her mother pleading for the