wednesday night. "alex wagner tonight" starts right now. good evening, alex. thank you my friend as always thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. >> for days now a line of more than 100 trucks filled with food and fuel and medical survives and water, that line of trucks has been waiting at the rafah crunching on the egyptian side of the gaza. because of israel's blockade, these trucks have been unable to cross into gaza. for more than 2 million people have been without many of those basic necessities for 11 days. until now. after arriving inafter arrivingi president biden announced that the uu.s. had convinced israel to bring humanitarian aid into gaza via egypt now, the deal is strict and it is fragile all of the aid must be inspected before entering gaza, and it

must go to civilians if hamas steals or diverts any of that aid, the deal will end after repairs to the border crossing are completed, this aid should start moving on friday at the earliest and it is need lless to say, but it has been a very long and very difficult week already today president biden announced his fifth speech -- fifth about this war set for 8:00 p.m. eastern in the u.s. tomorrow which is coming on the heels of his dep lumatic mission to as the only american president to visit israel in wartime, biden's visit today was a powerful show of support for a country still reeling from hamas're brutal and deadly terrorist attack. while president biden reiterated america's support for israel's self-defense, he expressed his empathy for a grieving country enraged by loss. biden also offered a warning. >> i caution this while you feel that rage, don't be consumed by

it. after 9/11 we were enraged in the uniteded states. while we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes. there's always cost, but it requires being deliberate. it requires asking very hard questions. it requires clarity about the objectives and an honest assessment about whether the path you're on will achieve those objectives. the vast majority of palestinians are not hamas. hamas does not represent the palestinian people. >> biden's cautionary notes are spreading against the backdrop of anger sparking fears. >> reporter: rage is erupting across thee arab world. thousands of protesters converge on the u.s. embassy in beirut. >> we're here to let the arab people wake up.

>> reporter: in turkey demonstrators rushed the israeli consulate in istanbul. they're all reacting to what palestinians call a massacre, that explosion at the hospital in gaza city. >> i heard an all mighty screech followed by a loud explosion.ud part of the ceiling of the operating room fell. can be seen bodies laying ons the ground, childre among then victims. >> an explosion in which the palestinian health ministry says killed 471 people yesterday. that explosion shook the globe. while hamas still claims the blast was an israeli air strike, president biden said today u.s. militaryata indicates the strike did not come from israel. a spokesperson for the white house national securityounsel told nbc news, the u.s. assesses israel was not responsible for the explosion n that killed hundreds of civilians yesterday at theostal in the gaza strip. our assessment is based on available reporting including

intelligence, missile activity, and open source video and images ofo the incident. but with more than 1,400 reported dead in israel and more than 3,400 reported dead in gaza, tensions remain on a knife's edge, and it is not clear that arab nations will accept the assessment of israel and the united states. last night into today there were massive protests across the middle east and north africa.as in egypt and yemen and tunisia and iraq. in iran there were chants of "death to france, england, america, and the zionists." in the west bank two teenage palestinian protesters were killed by israeli defense forces, the idf. thousands of protesters clashed with security forces in turkey, prompting israel's national security counsel to urge israeli citizens there to leave as soon as possible. policeoo used water canons to disperse protesters who tried to enter the israeli consulate in

istanbul. thousands gathered outside the u.s. and israeli embassies in jordan yesterday. in lebanon the u.s. state department issued its highest level of travel advisory, a level 4 do not travel warning. part of that warning was about the massive demonstrations that erupted yesterdaymo and the potential for violence from enraged protesters. butd the top line warning in tt travel advisory was about the increased exchanges of fire betweenan israel and the terrort group hezbollah on the lebanon-israel border and the potential for thisn- war to ope up a whole new front. joining me now from beirut lebanon nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. thank you for joining me tonight. i know you saw the protests over the hospital. can you tell me moret

scene was like? >> reporter: we were at the protests right outside that embassy. we were there just at the end and that's when we could smell the tear gas and w see the poli and military. they were putting the barricades back up that had been taken down by the protesters, and there clearly had been quite a lot of damage that had been done. the protesters they actually set fire to one of the commercial buildings next to theof road leading up to the embassy. it never made it close to the embassy. there's so many barricades that were between the protesters and the embassy, they never got close to the t actual structure. butl we were there earlier at hezbollah protest.h this is a hezbollah strong hold, and there we were talking to people and hearing the speakers and there you could get the sense for the folks who were there, you know, there was no daylight between the united states and israel. they were speaking about the united states and israel in the

sameis condemning terms. they were speaking about joe biden and benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister in the samea term.im so for them it was exactly the same. the united states has always been and was just last night complicit in what they consider to be the same crimes that israel has been committing against the palestinian people. tla did not buy it was an errant jihadist missile. they thought that was a lie. they said this was absolutely the israelis who launched that weapon, and they said this has long beend part of their complaint against the o israeli. they used the word genocide and a massacre. i spoke with one protester who

were there at that hezbollah rally. here's what she told me. >> it's really israel has left us as arab people no other chance or no other choice but to resist. and resistance means you have to resist with whatever means you've gotsi including armed resistance. >> reporter: for the folks who i was speaking to today and for the folks who have been brought outve throughout the entire ara world for this day of rage, this is the d second time we've seen day of ranl ind the past week, this isn't just about defending the palestinian cause. it's about the arab cause that a spanathize entire region. >> matt bradley doing essential reporting on the ground. thanks for that, matt, and please stay safe. joining me now in new york our

ayman mohyeldin host of ayman on msnbc, and migle goldberg, opinion columnist for "the new york times." thank you both for being here. before we begin thisth hour of television, youis and i were talking about the meaning of these protests in the arab street. and look, these are a lot of countries that know how to crac down on protests if they want to. and i wonder if you think that's a signal these leaders want the israelis and americans to see the anger in arab countries or whether there's a legitimate control they're losing control of thee'te population? >> there's the short-term and the long-term.an in the short-term a lot of these arab regimes as you mention are undemocraticn and authoritaria and crack down on protests know this singular issue is the one issue where these governments a lot of leeway to protests. we've been living under a bit of

a fallacy in the west because we hear about the abraham accords and think there's a legitimate peace treaty, but the truth is it's not the kind of peace on the street that exists between countries like you would think france and germany after world war ii. as a result of that over the years the palestinian issue while it's been pushed aside on the tables of arab leaders, they talk about it, but they don't really do much about it. the truthly is, it's been alwaya central unifying issue across the arab world. so when they see the images of what plays out in the occupied west bank, the settlements, and now the wars in gaza, the several wars, it mobilizes the street in a way that some of theirom own domestic issues they're unable to mobilize these people.mo and as a result it puts a lot of pressure on these fragile governments. they're not going to crack down. they may ultimately but not going to do itt in the short-term. in theth long-term it reinforcea belief a lot has that these

regimes are either co-opted by the west orei working on behalff western interests in the region. they genuinely do not care about the arab street or arab identity beyond lip service. >> that means the timing of presidentth biden's trip even though american and israeli intelligence say israel had nothing to do with this, the timing could not have been worse in some ways for president biden because his name is now being invoked on the arab street in the protests. >> it could not have been worse. and i can't imagine the last time in my life an american leader wasif rebuffed by very pro-regimes v including the kin ofme jordan, the palestinian president, as well as the president ofan egypt. yes, the palestinian president did not meet with president trump and certainly rejected what trumpd did. that had to do with the embassy moving. but to see an american president arriving to the region trying to bring some of the major players

around a table and be rebuffed or a rejected is not a good loo for america and the region. basically a message it's sending is we know what side you are on we're thought going to accept as we heard today from the president of egypt or the king of jordan what you want us to do. we will not just simply allow youst to impose what your outco of the situation is going to be specifically when it comes to the issue ofine refugees. the egyptian president was very clear, basically saying that if you want refugee tuesday be dealt with humanely, the king of jordan forcefully saying it is a redfu line, jordan will not tak in palestinian refugees, egypt willef not take in palestinian refugees. it's a principle situation playing out in gaza cannot be dumped onto arab countries and absolve israel of the humanitarian issues arriving there.

>> to show empathy and express a sympathetic rage if you will at the brutalti terror attack, butt the same time issue a word of warning. and i think you so beautifully hit on the contradiction. i can empathize with liberal jews both in israel and throughout the diaspora who feel too overwhelmed to protest. it is not fair events are moving too quickly to give people time to grieve the victimization of their own community before being asked to prevent the victimization of others. nonetheless as atrocities are piled on ocatrocities i hope th jews will attend what is threatened under our name. >> i understand why people throughout the world literally

embracing bb and think these are two governments hand in hand. at the same time knowing israelis and knowing how they bristle under criticism and often use the unfair criticism and we see the hospital bombing and there was a kind of widespread condemnation before it became increasingly clear about the story about an israeli air strike looked more and more unlikely. that can too easily be twisted into so it doesn't matter what we do. i really think the only way biden can quily get and try and get some humanitarian aid let through isn to kind of show ve little public daylight between them and then to also phrase his warning to them not you don't want to make the same mistake you've made before, for example,

in lebanon, but you don't want to make the same mistake we've made before in iraq and afghanistan, to sort of phrase it in that humble way. so i think that is the right message if you are trying to get through to israelis, but i also understand why that doesn't translate in so much of the world. >> well,f right. i mean and also invoking the specter of the wars in iraq and afghanistan may be a useful sort of ruatorial tool to convince israelis, look, we mean the best here, but what it does when you talk about the arab world to invoke the specter of that is deeply problematic. >> and to stay on the 9/11 analogy you kind of play out over the span of the outcome, the united states wanted today go after osama bin laden. they used the concocted excuse of wmds which everyone knows was pushed upon the public as a lie. in the case of iraq it's a state

predominantly controlled by iranian backed militias. we got isis 2.0 and ended up having years of terrorism across the united states and europe that still haunts us to this day. i think to michelle's point which is very important, anyone trying to convict the israelis, take a beat. learn from our mistakes. the anger is real, the pain is real, the suffering is real, but the revenge may end up being something that produces an outcome that is much more disastrous. everybody keeps saying -- in israel, everybody says we're not going to return to the status go. a very important point, put the status go means does that includes freedom for the palestinians. are you going to put gaza without hamas under a blockade, or are you going to get rid of hamas but keep the palestinians blockaded in the gaza strip. can you give us a return not to

the n status quo for the palestinians. and that answer i've not heard a single person say no. >> you point it out, michelle, the language coming from the right in america is not doing any service to the accord happening in the middle east. >> the language from the right licenses similar inflammatory expulsionest language you hear coming out of the israeli government. even before these horrific massacres you had many people in the israeli government who talked about, you know, kind of the needbo -- who already wante to expel palestinians from, you know, kindal from the 67 border of israel and all the land of greater israel. you already had that tendency. these arey people in many case devoted their lives certainly in the case of netanyahu to avoiding the creation of the palestinian state. that is why netanyahu ine some ways has built-up hamas as an

alternative so he could undercut the aplo and undercut the kindf secular nationalists, so there's no way you're going to see netanyahugo oesh see, you know, kind of understanding that the palestinians ndcontrary to what jared kushner and the rest thought, you know, this idea the palestinians could just be kind of j ignored and you could make peace without them and keep this going forever. that's not possible. but he is not the man who is who is going to be able to transsnd thisbl situation. >> which is why it's explicitly being asked how long does this war last andw what does it actually mean. always good to see you, michelle. you're staying around because we can't let you go. we haveca much more this evenin. donald trump is back inside a manhattan courtroom today. his theatrics did not go over well with the presiding judge. but first jim jordan just got therd fewest votes for speaker modern american political

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jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 199. the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. no person having received admajority, the whole number of the votes cast by a surname, a

speaker has not been elected. >> failing to elect a speaker is becoming something of a ritual in the house of representatives. today republicans made their second attempt at electing ohio congressman trump ally jim jordan to the speakership, and in the end congressman jordan receive one fewer vote for speaker than he did yesterday earning him the rare distinction having received the fewest votes of any official speaker nominee in modern american history, which is really something. perhaps as a consequence of this, some republicans and democrats are now openly considering the idea of giving more power to the house's understudy speaker, a man named patrick mchenry. a third speaker vote could take place as soon as tomorrow at noon, and republican opponents of mr. jordan say they expect he'll lose even more support in the next vote, which may actually be part of their plan. cnn is reporting jordan opponents have been purposefully

staggering their no votes over multiple ballots in order to show growing opposition to jim jordan and also apparently to prolong the pain of all of this as much as possible. joining me now is washington democrat congresswoman pramila jayapal and also the chair of the progressive congressional caucus. thank you for being here. tay say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. are we witnessing insanity unfold on the floor of the house of representatives? >> alex, we totally are. but i want to say it's not just the last two days. it's really the entire year. when you think about this, we just completed the 17th vote for speaker in nine months. and so i think we have to just recognize that the republican party is having a civil war of their own. they are unable to govern, and any time that we have gotten

something done i think you and i talked about this the last time i was on it's because democrats scuffled up to get those things done so we wouldn't default on debt, so we shouldn't shutdown the government. i think a place we have to get is where some group of republicans recognize that a bipartisan path forward where we decide together what are the key issues that must get done for the american people that have a bipartisan path forward, and we get those things done because this republican party is in ruin. they cannot govern, and it is, again, on democrats to make sure that we are able to move forward on these essential issues for the american people. >> it sounds there are back channel discussions about empowering the speaker pro tem who we call the understudy speaker patrick mchenry to take

a longer term position. is that palatable to house progressives or is this a moderates project only? >> i think nobody has been officially -- there's nobody to negotiate with, right? so there's no official negotiations. that is going to be left to our leader, leader hakeem effjeffries to negotiate that. what we have said and what he has said in his op-ed is bipartisan means bipartisan. they have to have a voice in making sure bad bills don't come forward, in making sure we are just putting forward the things that we know are necessary to keep the government open, for example. so i think that there's no details here because we don't have anybody to negotiate with. if republicans get to the place at the bottom of the barrel and they're almost there, alex, but apparently not yet. but if they get to that place at the bottom of the barrel, we are

ready as democrats to listen. but it's not got to be something that allows us to hold them accountable and truly bipartisan, which means taking into account the democrats wishes and the fact we essentially are the governing force in the house. >> so there will be a price extracted if the next speaker has democratic votes behind him or her. i do wonder as you watch this chaos unfold, the fact there's another vote scheduled tomorrow, what is the mood inside the democratic caucus. this is still it may be a house run by republicans -- and run is a loose term in this case, but it's also your house. i wonder how you all are processing this and thinking about the road ahead. >> it's been really depressing. i have to tell you this is my seventh year so i've only been there three terms. this is my fourth term. i've never seen anything like this. the reality is the first task of governing is you pick a speaker,

and we went through this debacle at the beginning of the year after 15 rounds of voting. at least kevin mccarthy was going up in his vote count. now jim jordan is going down. if he insists on another vote count tomorrow, to me it's just humillitation but also a waste of the american peoples time. we have serious issues in front of us, and we have american families that are hurting. we have international crises that we have to deal with, and the fact republicans are continuing to hold out and so-called moderate republicans -- this is a beef with me as you know, we call them moderate, but they need to stand up. they need to come over to the democratic side and say, look, we are going to put people over politics. that's what democrats do every day. and instead they are sort of digging in, and so we're ready, we're waiting. we want to get back to work, but let's be clear republicans have the majority even though democrats are governing in all the situations where we've gotten things done, they need to

come to us, and we are ready and willing, but it's got to be an actual bipartisan path forward. >> in other words, the call will not go to voice mail. you guys will pick it up, they just need to dial the number in earnest. congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you for your time tonight. good luck this week. we'll be watching. >> thank you, alex. coming up what happens when you try to get elected speaker of the house by issuing death threats against members of your own party? we're going to have the latest on novel house republican strategies to figure out who their next leader will be. and later this hour, jack smith's latest move suggests he may be scaling part of his investigation into donald trump. stay with us. art of his investigation into donald trump. stay with us attention hearing loss sufferers! do you have trouble keeping up with conversations? do you listen to tv on max volume? start hearing better today with rca's micro hearing aids.

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but it is trump's talking outside the courtroom that could run afoul of gag orders placed on him in both this new york civil case and the federal criminal case involve his attempts to stealthal 2020 election. trump is now appealing that federal gag order as new reporting from "the washington post" hints special counsel jack smith may be scaling down that investigation. smith's team has reportedly withdrawn a subpoena seeking documents from trump's save america pac which raised more than $100 million by pushing false claims that election was stolen. joining me now to help cipher all of this is andrew weissman, former fbi. andrew, how do you read the sort of indicators here? is it retraction -- rescind the subpoena on something that seems like a very potentially fruitful

line of inquiry. >> so i don't know. i'm going to give you my educated guess. first, i just don't think it's a lack of time. jack smith is a hard charging prosecutor. i don't see him in a case of this high profile and with something that appears to be worthwhile to pursue -- doesn't mean he'll get to the end of it. doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'll be like i'm going to withdraw it because i'm going home. i'm trying to think of why he would be potentially withdrawing a subpoena like this. and this is a pac that was paying for legal fees. and i could see that there could be have been litigation or this in the grand jury context which we would not know about because it's under seal dealing with whether it was going to interfere with someone's sixth amendment right or reveal attorney-client privilege information so there was some kind of structure worked out

with the court as to how they could get this information without revealing privileged information. that would be my educated guess. >> it would be in line with those who -- what about the unnamed coconspiratortereses? we have our thoughts who they are in this case. >> i think they're pretty well-established in the federal case. there i do think that jack smith's main eye on the prize is keeping the march 4th trial date and doing nothing to interfere with that. i would not be surprised if after that you see other federal charges. >> so the priority is get donald trump into a courtroom on this. goli, taste your goals. >> yes. >> the gag order that judge chutkan in this case has or as here's why you should switch from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is a browser you download to your mobile and desktop devices. unlike chrome, we say the bail -- >> the bail restrictions. the duckduckgo browser has privacy built-in. >> the bail restrictions more to

it comes with a the point to be exact, trump is private alternative to google search, which doesn■t spy on your searches, walking right up to the line in and it blocks cookies and creepy ads. terms of what he's saying about and there's no catch. it's free. the courts and the case. he's not naming names, but it we make money from ads, but they don't follow you around. almost seems like a forgone join the millions of people taking back their privacy conclusion that he is going to by downloading duckduckgo violate this at some time. on mobile and desktop today. judge chutkan has said this trial date is not moving. that's maybe the biggest stick okay, i want to read you a she has. >> it's going to depend on hoy text exchange reportedly between he violates. if he were to name or threaten a the wife of republican congressman don bacon of witness or a family member, if nebraska and an anonymous ally of house speaker -- house he were to say the kinds of speaker wanna be jim jordan. things he said you could imagine the district judge coming down very hard. the anonymous texter writes why and what i mean very hard, i is your husband causing chaos by don't mean fines. not supporting jim jordan. that's the kind of thing you bacon's wife replies who is could imagine a judge taking so this. the texter writes, your husband will not hold any political seriously. if it's something like like

office ever again. okay now. that threat did not work on maybe yesterday or he used the congressman don bacon. term thug -- today he voted against jim >> yes, biden and his thug. jordan for speaker for a second time. >> he said this goes right to and here is what the congressman the line, and you could imagine had to say after that vote. if he continues that, he's being they are messing with the wrong admonished or the lawyer is guy. i'm not going to be cowed by this stuff. being told make sure your client several other republican cuts that because you could congress members who voted imagine fines. against jordan also spoke today but i think the violation -- the nature of the violation is going to dictator what happened to about threats and intimidation that their campaign's received. so the death threats may be an actual strategy here. him. so if he does what he's been doing with respect to mark tonight a republican milley again, which so far he congresswoman said she received has not, i think he's going to credible death threats and a be playing with fire. barrage of threatening calls >> as is his want. since she switched her vote in order to oppose jordan in round you pointed this out in the two of voting today. podcast this week. and she added one thing i cannot the chesebro-sydney powell trial stomach or support is a bully. we're going to unpack that right now with michelle goldberg, jury selection starts on a opinion columnist for "the new friday, the trial officially starts next monday. >> this friday. york times." michelle, first of all, >> i think people have a clock republicans speaking out against desk. this is going to be the state of bullies is a slightly cold georgia laying out its evidence comfort given who the sort of in a really important case nominal head of the party is. especially as it dove tails the

>> right. although i guess it's impressive federal case. >> absolutely. there's so much going on because in that, you know, ump the there's the new york case, there was the deposition that pete moderate -- quote-unquote moderate ring, what passes for struck and lisa page took. there's so much litigation over republicans, has been so incredibly spineless that i donald trump, but the criminal think most people exec them to case -- the january 6th criminal case, the jury selection is fold. starting friday. they thought they would fold on and in earnest on sunday, and we the first vote and seems increasingly the attempts to know the openings will happenats threaten them -- >> death threats. the latest on november 3rd. >> right. and the thing is death threats as you said during the trial it in the past have been very effective in getting republicans is true donald trump is not one of the defendants sitting there, but he might as well be in terms to do the will of the base. of the nature of the proof coming out. we saw that with mitt romney. we're going to learn a lot more about the nature of the scheme they couldn't afford the charged. >> and it's a big sprawling millions of dollars a year in personal security and they were indictment. so there's going to be a lot to worried about people going after talk about. i mean there always is them. so that has been the sort of especially with you, my friend. m.o. of far-right republican coming up after the break, party. not to make these threats what will happen to the at least themselves, but when they say they're going to unleash the 199 hostages taken by terrorists base, they know very well what that entails. on october 7th? dennis ross jones me to discuss

the least worst options that are release the kraken and sydney on the table. stay with us. t options that are powell. i do think there's a difference on the table stay with us between the death threats issued for trump and jim jordan whose position is declining here. how do you think this jordan saga ends -- i shouldn't say jordan saga. the speaker saga ends. >> i don't know. my guess is i think it'll probably end with someone like patrick mchenry. >> getting an extension. >> yes. because it just doesn't seem like there's any other way out short of the matt gaetz caucus. if the matt gaetz caucus couldn't bring themselves to vote for steve scalise mr. kindler jet gentler i don't think they're going to find themselves able to get in line to somebody even more moderate changing your habits is the only way that gets you to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com. with cirkul, your water is deliciously flavored at the turn of a dial, with zero sugar and zero than that. it's hard to imagine some calories. and cirkul has over 40 flavors, so your republicans will peel away and water can be as unique as make a deal with democrats. you are. try cirkul. your but i think our politics now are water, your way. now with even more flavors.

in a place where all outcomes available at walmart or are very hard to imagine but drinkcirkul.com. something has to happen. >> well, and it's clear that they can't -- they can't get it done on their own own. the only question is what kind of price are democrats going to extract from them. because they plan on it. michelle goldberg, thank you for doing double duty tonight, my friend. coming up donald trump was admonished by a judge today for talking too loudly in a courtroom. but it's the former president's words outside a court that could land him in hot water. the latest from the trump trials with andrew weissman. that is next. andrew weissman that is next

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home of the xfinity 10g network. to those who are living in limbo waiting desperately to

learn the fate of a loved one especially to the family of the hostages, you're not alone. we're working with partners throughout the region, pursuing every avenue to bring home those who are being held captive by hamas. >> that was president biden in israel today addressing the families of loved ones of those taken hostage in the brutal terror attack of october 7th. their rescue remains elusive, and that is because as dennis ross, former u.s. envoy to the middle east writes in the atlantic this week, there are almost no good choices. on the one hand the terrorist leaders no doubt hope the hostages would be a deterrent against israel's launching an all out war against them. on the other hand the hamas knew if they could trade prisoners they would be heroes as those held in israeli jails as part of the struggle against the

occupation. it would allow its leaders to claim that their way worked. joining me now is the author, dennis ross, counselor at the washington institute and a former u.s. envoy to the middle east. ambassador ross, thank you for making the time. i found this to be fascinating reading, and i wonder if you could sort of recount how and the 2011 hostage negotiation where netanyahu traded i think it was a thousand jailed palestinians for a single soldier, how the specter of that exchange figures into potential hostage negotiate eggs today. >> you know, it has a backdrop that affects both sides. hamas leaders felt given that experience if we have hostages the israelis will surely make a trade they were prepared to give him over a thousand and clearly

the hamas leader today one of the master minds. and what was done was one of those released. you can imagine he sees we have this history, this experience. the israelis will be willing to make trades because of that. on the israeli side it's precisely because of that that there's now a hesitancy to do anything like that. there's also a very deep reluctance to do anything that looks like hamas is being rewarded for what they did. so the impulse on the israeli side to talk to anybody about this is really quite limited. the avenues we're pursuing are less to do with israel and more to do with countries like qatar or turkey or egypt that have a relationship with hamas especially qatar which is a bankroller of hamas. and obviously it has the ability to threaten to with hold money and well, maybe to even cut relations. so we're clearly trying to work with those who have leverage on hamas, and they have an interest -- qatar and turkey

have an interest in trying to say, look, we have a relationship with hamas and here's the value of that reactionship. but to prove it has value, they have to deliver. >> yeah, i wonder you in the piece the negotiation seems so fraught and complex. you seem to suggest a rescue operation may be the best option. can you talk a little bit more about that given the situation on the ground both in terms of the tunnels where we presume the hostages are being kept and the active deteriorating situation in gaza more broadly? >> the rescue operations are always the last thing to take place because you need intelligence, and it takes time to get it. then you have to figure out how well the hostages are defended in these places, are the places booby trapped? do they put the hostages front and center? there's a whole series of challenges that raise the question of had you sure you can save them more than getting them kill, but then you weigh it against the option of is it is a negotiation or whether countries

can deliver anything. and it would be easier for the israelis to say we don't need to do rescue operations if the channels we're using right now look like they were paying off. now, at this point this isn't happening. but one could envision maybe there's a circumstance under which hamas will decide under the pressure from qatar or turkey or maybe egypt that they will release the women and children. and if that's the case, then it defers the use of the rescue operation as an option. so i think we have to see a little bit more -- a little bit more time has to go by. but, again, you said it at the top, none of the options are good. and hamas is not the kind of group that, "a," doesn't follow through on threats it makes to execute hostages. it's also not the kind of group that wants to give up something for nothing. >> it is complicated to say the least. you report in your piece in the atlantic that you've heard reports the u.s. has already deployed a hostage rescue unit to israel to assist it possible

coordination. we cannot imagine what is happening behind the scenes, bullet your assessment here is quite illuminating. ambassador dennis ross, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> my pleasure. >> that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. what sets us apart from the terrorists is we believe in a fundamental dignity of every human life, israeli,