that amount of money is replenishing u.s. stockpiles of weapons that have already been sent to ukraine. looking at about $14 billion for israel. they've also included funding for taiwan, indo-pacific, border security, humanitarian efforts. the hope is that by including all these things, there is a political coalition that moves us forward. also, you can run into issues when, you know, you add more things to something, and it gets weighed down. it's an open question, how they're going to get this going forward the next few days and weeks. >> smart point for the president last night to note that some of this was to replenish our own stocks of weapons. better sell that to americans. it is going to be a busy weekend in the white house as they monitor the situation in the middle east. white house reporter for the associated press, chris, thank you for joining us. thanks for getting up "way too early" with us this friday morning and all week long. "morning joe" starts right now. american leadership is what holds the world together.

american alliances are what keep us, america, safe. it is the value that puts other nations up for working with us. if we turn our backs on israel, it's just not worth it. >> part of president biden's address last night urging americans and congress to continue to support ukraine and israel in the vastly different war each is fighting. we'll go live to israel for the latest on the expected ground invasion of gaza. meanwhile, republicans are somehow creating even more chaos on capitol hill. with another speaker's vote scheduled for this morning, it comes as the temporary speaker is getting fed up and is now threatening to resign. plus, we'll get expert legal analysis on the surprise guilty plea from one of the many defendants in the georgia election interference case.

that's a big one. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, october 20th. i'd love to get both you and willie's reaction to the president's speech last night. i thought it was really effective, part teacher, part influencer, in trying to spread the word of democracy. >> i mean, part comforter. i mean, there's no doubt, willie, that last night's speech, you never know what to expect with the president's speech. you think sometimes there are going to be platitudes here, platitudes there. i'm talking any president. last night was a significant speech. this was a speech that was delivered on the heels of china and russia's leaders getting together, russia's foreign minister and kim jong-un getting together, iran and hamas coming together. we heard the term back in 2003, axis of evil. >> right. >> if that word is offensive to people out there this morning, we'll make them spit out their

lattes. we'll just say, there is an axis of anti-american forces out there that are coming together, that want to recreate the world in their own tyrannical image. against that backdrop, joe biden gave a historic speech last night. it was a speech that talked about america's role in the world at a time that a lot of republicans on the far right and a lot of democrats on the far left want to retreat. joe biden is not for retreating. he also was a comforter in chief. i thought it was very moving when he said, if you are hurting out there, whether you are jewish or muslim, i hear you. you are part of our family. you are an american. it was an incredibly important thing to say, and i'm so glad he said it. he actually called the father of the 6-year-old child who was brutally murdered.

>> yeah. >> senselessly murdered, comforted him, let him know that he and jill were praying for his wife. i've got to say, it was a surprise of a speech for me, and it surprised some people who aren't joe biden fans. brett called it remarkable, and, by far, a critically important speech and the best speech of the president's career. >> this president has had, it seems, absolute clarity on this issue since the war, actually going back to ukraine, but especially in the last two weeks since hamas attacked israel. there has been no equivocating in his support for israel. the way he talks about america's relationship with israel. he flew into a hot war zone to stand shoulder to shoulder with the prime minister. that was on display, i think, last night. at a time you have putin meeting with president xi, you have houthi rebels, different iran-backed groups attacking american troops, trying to use

drones, it feels like a heavy, dangerous moment for americans watching this play out and wondering where our place is in this. you're right, the president was trying to settle people a little last night and say, "we have an important role to play. we're the united states of america. but we can do this. we can continue to support ukraine. here's a reminder why that is important. and we must support israel. here's why that is important, if you're wondering." he did something we heard president bush do in the days after 9/11, was trying to reassure muslim-americans that they are a part of all of this, that they have a safe place to be and to talk about the beautiful 6-year-old boy who was murdered just for being muslim. so it have -- it was a very extraordinary speech. >> he is in the moment and understands the assignment clearly from his decades of experience, and mistakes made in foreign policy over time, it's

brought him to this place where he truly understands the mission here. here is president biden calling on americans to support both israel and ukraine in their respective wars and explaining why it's critical to our national security. >> hamas and putin represent different threats, but they share this in common, they both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy. completely annihilate it. hamas' stated purpose for existing is the destruction of the state of israel and the murder of jewish people. hamas does not represent the palestinian people. hamas uses palestinian civilians as human shields and innocent palestinian families are suffering greatly because of that. meanwhile, putin denies ukraine has or ever had real statehood. he claims the soviet union created ukraine. i know these conflicts can seem far away, and it's natural to ask, why does this matter to america? let me share with you why making sure israel and ukraine succeed

is viral for america's national security. you know, history has taught us, when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, it causes more chaos, death, and more destruction. they keep going, and the cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising. if we walk away and let putin erase ukraine's independence, would-be aggressors around the world would be emboldened to try the same. the risk of conflict and chaos could spread into other parts of the world. in the indo-pacific, in the middle east, especially in the middle east. iran is supporting russia in ukraine, and it is supporting hamas and other terrorist groups in the region. we'll continue to hold them accountable, i might add. tonight, there are innocent people all over the world who hope because of us, who believe in a better life because of us, who are desperate not to be

forgotten by us, and are waiting for us. but time is of the essence. i know we have our divisions at home. we have to get past them. we can't let petty partisan, angry politics get in the way of our responsibilities as a great nation. we cannot and will not let terrorists like hamas and tyrants like putin win. i refuse to let that happen. >> let's bring in the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and president emeritus on the council of foreign relation, richard haass. >> i was surprised by the scope of this speech, the importance of this speech. you had a democrat, a democratic president going out there, actually, well, sounding a lot like ronald reagan in the middle of the cold war. saying, we cannot let tyranny

win. it sets up a real battle for republicans between the reagan wing of the party and the josh hawley/charles lindbergh wing of the republican party. last night, joe biden was quite forceful and said, the dots, whether you like it or not, the dots do connect from hamas to iran to russia to china to north korea across the world. what will be the impact, richard? >> look, as you would expect, given my dna, i like the full-throated support of internationalism, the rejection of the word isolationism, even though i don't think he explicitly used that word, joe. i wonder how many minds it would really change. i don't think that many exactly to those wings of the party as you talked about. >> what about, though, richard, on the world stage? again, the world stage right now is looking at a republican congress that seriously couldn't make a bowl of oatmeal, and

wondering where the united states is. they see the president of the united states speaking, again, in such a full-throated way, and commentators on fox news praising him, the senior commentators praising him for that. i mean, the audience -- >> the contrast. >> the audience is not just the neville chamberlains of the party. it is also an international audience watching this, is it not, especially people who consider america their enemies. >> it is. the only thing that doesn't reassure people internationally is when people look at us -- and i get this about three times a day -- people around the world, particularly our friends, no longer know what's the normal and what's the aberration. they hear joe biden, and this is exactly what they want to hear from the united states. what they don't know is if they're only going to be hearing it for 12 more months. you know, there's no doubts about him given ukraine and israel. what there are doubts about is exactly what you're pointing to.

to what extent does he still represent america? to what extent can our friends in the world bank, that what he talked about will still be u.s. policy come 2025? that's the only reason it doesn't have the reassuring effect that you suggest. let me say two other things, joe. one argument i wish the president had introduced into the speech was the idea that, not only we should do what he was talking about, but we can afford it. the biggest criticism i run into all the time, it's kind of the old guns versus butter, if we spend all this money on ukraine or israel, look at all the domestic needs that are going unmet. what the president could have done was explain how historically we've been able to do both, how during the cold war, we spent a far, far higher percentage of our gdp on national security. the last i checked, the economy and the society did well during those decades. i wish he connected that to take on that argument. second of all, you talked about

how the united states has to make sure both israel and ukraine succeed. for a lot of people, what is still uncertain is what is his definition of success? yes, ukraine must be independent, but does that mean the ukraine and the united states should be funding ukraine to regain every square inch of its territory? yes, israel must be safe from terrorist attacks, but what does that mean, vis-a-vis what is happening in gaza. i'm not sure he settled that. >> the president can only get so specific. >> that would have been a lot. >> yeah. he can only get so specific. i thought the president framed it well when he talked about ukraine by saying, vladimir putin thought he was going to march into kyiv and take over the entire country in three days. he has failed. for us, that's the definition of success. even holding putin where he is keeps him from his main objective, keeps him from all of his objectives.

willie, it seems to me, that's what the united states has to do. we cannot allow a russian tyrant to march into neighboring capitals. >> and he made the point, you can't allow a terrorist organization, hamas, to go unchecked in a moment like this. john, it's a critical case to make because, today, the president is going to request up to $100 billion in aid for ukraine and israel, combined package. by the way, doing that in front of a congress that is in complete chaos right now, as republicans try to find a speaker of the house, for starters. do you think he made that case? when he asks for that much money for two foreign conflicts, think he'll come up with the cash? >> this was a tricky speech to deliver, to try to sell americans on these two distant wars, why it matters so their national security here at home. to that point, about letting terrorists or dictators go unchecked, he said, if they do, they cause more chaos, more death and destruction.

they keep going, and the cost and threats to america continue to go up, too. it was a key line, suggesting this matters on our shores, even though these conflicts feel so far away. the president's aides said he spent a lot of time on the speech in the last couple days. you could tell he warmed to it as he went along. he got more personal when he talked about americans, arab-americans, palestinians, and how the u.s. feels their plight. he rallied, and the speech got better as he went along. now, the other side of the pennsylvania avenue, $100 billion is a lot of money. the president made a forceful case to sell it. it's israel, ukraine, taiwan, border security, other domestic programs, as well. it can't go anywhere without a house of representatives. the president didn't make the point, try to score political points. he took the high road, was the global statesman, but nothing goes through until the

republicans get into order. >> the question is, mika, are republicans willing, some are, to let vladimir putin win in ukraine? i know some are. >> yeah, literally with him. >> literally are with him. you listen to what they say. it could be coming out of russian television in primetime. do they want israelis to fail in their effort to push back against the hamas terrorist group? we'll see. maybe they do. do they want fentanyl to flood in over the border when joe biden wants to spend a lot of money to protect the border from that? also, they've asked for border security. we're talking about $14 billion in border security in the southern border. do they want to vote against that, as well? i mean, maybe they do. like i said, maybe i overestimated them.

maybe not only can they not make a bowl of oatmeal -- >> not even instant. >> -- but they'd hurt themselves trying. >> definitely get burned, yeah. >> keep the blender away from them. this is a group of people that, i've never seen such incompetence and confusion. richard makes a good point, which is, the world is watching. they want to know, are we going to bow down to vladimir putin? are we going to bow down to hamas? are we going to retreat from the world? it's a very, very important question to be answered. right now, it is the republican house of representatives that's not answering that question because they can't even elect a speaker. >> for most of them, their guy just got another really bad piece of legal news out of georgia, which we'll get to. in one minute, we have full coverage of the breakdown of -- >> kraken lady? >> yeah. >> she cracked. >> she cracked big time. >> yeah. >> gripping capitol hill,

republicans have 221 members in the house, and they can't pick a single one of them to lead their party. >> not one. >> the latest on the failing efforts to choose a house speaker when we come back in 60 seconds. >> historic incompetence. i think it may be remembered as one of the best, if not the best speeches of his presidency. he was firm, unequivocal, strong, as he has been particularly in recent days before he went to israel and while he was over there. i was struck by the fact that he spent as much time as he did on ukraine. i think it was a good thing that he did. that can deliver clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪

learn how abbvie could help you save. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. the path to a new house speaker for republicans remains uncertain this morning following a new series of surprising, chaotic developments. >> come on, man. >> there is another, new house vote for speaker scheduled at 10:00 this morning. >> that guy's supporters. let's stop right there. >> election denier.

>> let's stop. that guy right there, his people are calling the wives, texting the wives of republican members and threatening them. ken buck, got a report that ken buck's lease in his local office got canceled because he didn't support jim jordan. pressure is mounting from all over, from right-wing freaks. let me say it again, right-wing freaks who are threatening, threatening republican members if they don't support the speaker. listen, i'm not good at politics, willie. that's not really a good way to win friends and influence fellow members of congress. in fact, in the words of aristotle, be ye careful, ye may

piss them off. i didn't know "ye" was used in ancient greek, but, you know what? i think he was right. >> harassing people's wives as a political tactic, as a way to twist arms to get their vote. >> that's a good one. >> who would have thought? it is backfiring spectacularly on jim jordan. all these members are going public with the stories and saying, there are people from his office or people working on his behalf at least threatening us. we've had to have extra security because i won't vote for jim jordan, an insurrectionist, a guy who won't admit that joe biden won the 2020 election. i don't know what he thinks his path is. he's not giving up the game, though, mika. he's going to go up for another vote today. few hours from now, actually. he thinks, somehow, this vote total is going to go up when, in fact, every time they go to a vote, he gets fewer votes. it might be because of the harassment of members' loved ones. >> who -- okay. the move comes nearly 24 hours after the ohio congressman said

he would support temporarily empowering interim speaker patrick mchenry of north carolina to take on the speaker's role until january, allowing legislative business to continue in the face of two wars and a looming government shutdown. >> jonathan lemire. >> my god. >> within a couple of hours, republicans got together, and this portion of the republican caucus being stupid as they are politically, so stupid, were saying, "that would be like turning the floor over to the democrats. that would be" -- another one was waving his constitution, saying that that would be unconstitutional. is north carolina a breakaway republic? >> what about order? >> why would it be turning the floor over to democrats if you gave the speakership temporarily to a republican? >> so things could get done.

>> from north carolina. things could run effectively. they could pass appropriation bills, and the republican party would not get further, like, battered by all of this, and america could speak with one voice on terror attacks. >> mchenry not from cambridge or brooklyn. he's from north carolina. there is a real sense of whiplash, what happened yesterday in the house of representatives. jordan didn't have the votes, decided he'd throw his support behind the mchenry maneuver to temporarily increase his powers. jordan himself talking to reporters, saying this is what we're going the do. then, behind closed doors, as you eluded to, a lot of dissent about this. also, a lot of anger at the eight republicans who ousted kevin mccarthy in the first place. in fact, screaming at matt gaetz. one member threatened to take a swing at him behind closed

doors. then they realized they don't have the support for mchenry. jordan said, well, we'll try it again. word leaks that mchenry might quit, he's not going to do this role any longer if it doesn't go through certain procedures. we end up worse than where we started. there is no path. no one suspects, willie, that jordan will have the votes to get through it today. then it becomes, how many more rounds of voting does he want to put up with? how many more rounds of voting do his fellow republicans allow him? what happens this weekend? does anyone else step forward? does mchenry get convinced to try it again? comes against the backdrop of the president of the united states saying, we have to help our our allies and we can't. >> asking for $100 billion, but who is he asking? no one is in charge. jackie alemany has been all over this story. jackie, this is truly wild at this point. jim jordan in a few hours is going up again for another vote and try, somehow, to change the

dynamics that have been going away from him, not toward him in the last couple days. in fact, when he called that meeting yesterday with his detractors, i guess to try to convince him, those members came out of the meeting, it was reported, and said, no, no, we wanted to have the meeting to tell him to get out of the way. there's no path to 217 for you. what gives here? are they going to have the vote at 10:00, and does he have any way to get to 217? >> willie, this is what mitch mcconnell might call mutually assured destruction. we are now counting down the minutes until an 8:00 a.m. press conference with jim jordan after, as john accurately described, a day of where i happen whiplash, where the crippling dysfunction of the speakerless house, who hasn't had a speaker past the must-deadlins for over two weeks, and jim jordan will say whether he'll go ahead with the third vote at 10:00 a.m., which

he is all but certain to lose. his support has erode and had will continue to erode. again, as we said all week, the opposition to jordan is profound. it is out of principle. it is not out of a negotiation tactic. there is a faction of never jordan moderates, institutionalists, lawmakers across the board, appropriators, people of all stripes and ideologies, who are against jordan and are not going to be able to turn by him. as you said, in this meeting yesterday after jordan reversed course, after agreeing to this plan to empower patrick mchenry, then came out of this house gop conference meeting and said, actually, wait, nevermind, we're going full steam ahead, that he's not going to be able to pick up the votes here. so we'll see what happens. there's not many people who want this job. the few people who do want the job, the few people who could

get the job don't want the job. we'll see. >> jackie, to that point exactly, we saw patrick mchenry there in the video alongside jim jordan. the backup plan in all of this is to make the speaker pro tem, patrick mchenry of north carolina, the temporary speaker of the house through the end of the year. now, even he is saying, i don't want that short-term job. i don't want it without assurances i'll actually have power to do things. is even that plan in peril here? >> yeah, there is this -- basically, the house freedom caucus and some other hard liners who don't want to kick the can down the road have basically said that they are not going to even consider this resolution anymore that was introduced by house gop moderate dave joyce, and has some quiet buy-in from house democrats who want to get back to regular order. again, this plan would go until january 3rd. there are some sort of

constitutional questions that are being raised, although i heard from a former house counsel under tip o'neill under -- yesterday who said he doesn't see any problems with empowering mchenry. these are sort of the underlying relationships and complications in the house dynamics. patrick mchenry not wanting to step on jim jordan's toes. kevin mccarthy quietly lurking in the background, some talk of him swooping in and trying a go at speakership again if these eight people who voted against him to begin with apologize. there's so much going on right now, and i think patrick mchenry just doesn't want the job or think that it could function in the way that, i think, people think it could. >> you know, jackie, thank you, as always. "washington post"'s jackie

alemany, thank you. >> thank you, jackie. >> you know, we -- willie, i talked about how -- you don't know this, and i usually don't tell people this, but, i think people need to know this. willie, you there? >> he's there. >> i need to tell ya this. there was a different time in my life. it was before we got on tv. >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> i was once in congress. >> here we go. >> come on. >> okay. >> it was the early -- >> it was '94 to '01. >> right in the grunge era, yeah. >> it was. >> hakey-sack. >> i was able to wear flannel in the hall. >> doc martins and flannel.

>> yeah. >> i played a little pearl jam, "smells like teen spirit." yeah, but we were all considered reckless, crazy, because we voted to -- we didn't vote. he never got to the vote, but newt gingrich got out of town because we said we weren't going to support him. that happened the day after the election. we made the call and said, "this is what we're going to do." there was some chaos for about three, four days, while congress was in recess. when we got back, we elected a new leadership team. i bring that up to say, it would be unimaginable for us to blow

up the house of representatives and the speakership in the middle of a session and keep the speaker's chair vacant for this long. unimaginable. >> until now. >> not in a million years would any of the 12 or 13 of us that were considered radicals, freaks, all this other stuff, we would never, ever even contemplate doing that, which tells you how nihilistic this group of republican holdouts are. >> always trumpers. >> they are not conservative. there's nothing conservative about them. they're radicals. they're actually the antithesis of everything that kirk or buckley or ronald reagan would ever define as a conservative. >> yeah, and it's radical, of course, to get rid of the speaker of the house in the first place, kevin mccarthy, but it is reckless to have no plan after you get rid of the speaker of the house. to your point, though, that

small group of radical republicans doesn't think about that. they're just there to blow things up politically, to get attention for themselves. >> yeah. >> we're not even talking about the business of being a congressman or a congresswoman and getting legislation passed and getting money approved for wars and things like that. we're just talking about getting a leader in position so you can begin to do those things. >> right. >> they can't even do that. by the way, as jackie said, it's not clear how this gets resolved. we're sitting here two weeks later. jim jordan doesn't have the votes. patrick mchenry doesn't want the job or the small group of radicals doesn't want him to have the job temporarily. where does that leave them? i honestly don't know. i don't think anyone does on capitol hill. >> we'll continue following it. >> we will. again, there's really no ideology here. >> no. >> it's not about ideology. as willie said, it's about owning, not the libs here, owning the republicans. >> being destructive. >> being able to put out tiktok

videos, being able to raise money by saying, "hey, i'm going up against the man, the republican man." it's all gesture. >> it's not about legislation. >> i will say again, contrasting with what we did to now, our singular focus, that group, was balaning the budget and making washington responsible fiscal fiscally. that was the singular focus, and it worked. there is no singular focus here, none. >> no. >> it is just chaos. >> i still don't understand how jim jordan even would think that an election denier, j-6er, as speaker of the house, is good for this country. >> also threatening -- >> someone who has done nothing. >> -- people's wives to vote, doesn't work, actually. let's talk about the guy who inspired a lot of these folks. coming up on "morning joe," sidney powell vowed to release the kraken to help former president trump, but now, she could end up testifying against him in court. >> she cracked, it looks like.

>> former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg joins us to discuss what powell pleading guilty in the georgia election interference case might mean for her former boss. >> can we take a minute just to listen to my theme song in congress? >> yeah, no. we'll be right back. >> bring back the memories. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano.

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♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) with the push of a button, constant contact's ai tools help you know what to say, even when you don't. hi! constant contact. helping the small stand tall. it looks like she cracked. >> the kraken lady? >> yeah. i think the kraken lady cracked. >> yup. got a good deal. one of former president trump's staunched allies has pleaded guilty in the georgia election interference case. we always said georgia was going to be a bit different. sidney powell, who was a member of trump's legal team, in his

quest to overturn the 2020 election, pleaded guilty yesterday to six misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with performance of election duties. those charges are mostly related to powell's part in breaching voting equipment in a rural georgia county i juary of 2021. as part of a plea deal, she was sentenced to six years of probation and will have to pay $6,000 i fines. nearly $3,000 in restitution to th state of georgia. powell will have to turn over all documents relatedo e case and write an apology to the state's citizens. she has also agreed to testify against the remaining co-defendants in the case, including trump and his former lawyer, rudy giuliani. powell's sentence is significantly less severe than what she could have faced if found guilty during trial, which was set to begin next week.

powell, who appeared in news conferences and spread mass election misinformation, was a frequent white house visitor after the 2020 election. keep in mind, she was in there. she dealt directly with trump and giuliani. with trump at one point considering naming her as special counsel to investigate alleged voter fraud. >> let's bring in former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. >> wow. >> chuck, many people believe it was a light sentence given everything, but does that suggest that she actually has information that the georgia prosecutors really need? >> yeah, quite possibly. to that point, joe, she avoided a felony, and she's going to avoid jail time. you know, i think, in some ways, it is a light sentence. does she have information that's going to be helpful to prosecutors? well, there's a couple of hurdles here.

firs -- i imagine, certainly -- second, they have to make the determination that she's credible on the stand. she's said a lot of crazy things and done a lot of crazy things. putting her on the stand means that the jury will believe her and that she could withstand what would be, logically, a pretty difficult cross-examination. third, and i think this is a really important caveat, there is still a pending indictment in federal court in the district of columbia. she is an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment. even if she wants to cooperate, she still has a fifth amendment issue. things that she says in georgia, if she testifies against others, including mr. trump or mr. giuliani, could, theoretically, be used against her if federal prosecutors decide to charge her. i don't think that is insurmountable. i think that can be resolved, but prosecutors would have to address all of those things relevant to the admissible information, credible enough to

put on the stand at trial, and to withstand cross-examination. then they would have to address her lingering fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. yeah, she could be a very important witness, sure. >> chuck, as you read through the plea documents, sidney powell basically comes clean on everything. says, "yes, i took all those actions after the 2020 election with the purpose of willfully tampering with machines that were tabulating votes." she tells the whole story effectively, which tells you what kind of witness she could be. remind the viewers about what she could say about donald trump potentially, given how close she was in the crazy couple of months after the election. >> yeah. joe -- excuse me, willie. mika eluded to this, and she's exactly right. there was a ruckus meeting in the white house on december 18th. sidney powell attended. at that meeting, reports are it got fairly heated between normal

lawyers and abnormal lawyers, a couple ideas were floated, including whether or not, as mika said, to name sidney powell as a special counsel to investigate election fraud. thank goodness that didn't happen. also, talk about whether the national guard should be deployed, in part to help seize voting machines, whether the election, willie, ought to be rerun. you know, why does that matter? because president trump was there. the most important witnesses in any criminal case are those who have sat next to, talked with, heard from the defendant. mr. trump is the defendant. again, does she, could she have important information? absolutely. you still have to resolve that lingering fifth amendment issue, but i think mika nailed it in her opening. she has proximity to mr. trump,

so she could be an important witness to mr. trump. >> and, i mean, she's flipping. chuck, the question that sort of hangs over this, or maybe the reality, clearly, she would have faced some pretty difficult consequences if she was found guilty, and, clearly, i mean, can you make the assumption, given she was in there from the ground up on election denying and election interference, just from what we know, and the face time she had with donald trump, she was brought up like that, that she knew there were not a lot of options for her? she has a lot to offer? is there an assumption that can be approached there, that she has good information to offer to prosecutors? >> maybe. i'm sure they think, mika, hopefully. it is not unusual for people who have been charged with crimes to plead guilty. overwhelmingly, that happens.

if they are lucky enough to have information that prosecutors think is valuable, then perhaps they can -- you know, that's part of the bargain, part of the offer. that's what they can give prosecutors in response for, here, the ability to plead to misdemeanors rather than felonies and the ability to avoid jail time. two big things sidney powell gets out of the deal, assuming it all survives and goes through cleanly. looks like it has. that's pretty remarkable. if i can, though, mika, it brings me to one thing that troubles me about what is happening in georgia. maybe it's only because our practice in federal court is very different. mika, if you and joe robbed a bank and we charged you each with a felony and you wanted to plead guilty, you would have to plead guilty to a felony. we don't engage, by and large, in the federal system in what is called charge bargaining. dropping a charge from a felony to a misdemeanor to induce a plea. georgia apparently does that.

maybe it's my discomfort with the state system, with the fact i'm used to the federal system where that does not occur, but that is a big benefit to defendants who want to come forward and resolve their cases. i'm sure it's not lost on 17 other co-defendants who might realize, i can get rid of a felony and get a misdemeanor? i could stay out of jail if i do what she did? we may see more of that happening. >> wow. well, that is something. former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," we turn back to the israel-hamas war. the latest on the possible ground invasion of gaza. we'll talk with a spokesperson for the israeli defense forces about what's happening on the ground right now. we're also going to be talking about joe biden's speech last night. considered by people on both sides of the aisle to be extraordinarily important. we'll talk about what it means across the world and what the political fallout may be here at

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only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. look, a same time, president netanyahu and i discussed again the critical need for israel to operate by the laws of war. that means protecting civilians in combat as best they can. the people of gaza urgently need food, water, and medicine. as i said in israel, as hard as it is, we cannot give up on peace. we cannot give up on a two-state solution. israel and palestinians equally deserve to live in safety, dignity, and peace. >> all right. richard haass, again, as i said, a speech that drew widespread praise. i did note, as you did, that the president of the united states,

a fulsome supporter of israel, still laid down three markers for israel's leaders last night. talk about that. >> absolutely. the first was on what israel is doing. he basically said, don't make the same mistake we did after 9/11. essentially, be smart. don't make foreign policy just with your heart. make it with your head. that, to me, essentially was a marker, don't go in too big and don't stay for too long. then it was how israel did it. that was the reference to the laws of war, that you have to take all sorts of steps to make sure that civilians are not injured against the siege and so forth. lastly, whenever the dust settles, he put down a marker on the two-state solution. ultimately, there needs to be a political track. absent the political track, the only game in town is terrorism. if we don't want hamas to have a monopoly on promoting what they describe as palestinian interest, we have to empower other palestinians with the hope

that their legitimate political aspirations can be satisfied. three specific markers. what israel does, how it does it, and what comes after, quite interesting. >> let's bring in now spokesperson for the israeli defense forces, major libby weiss. thank you for being with us this morning. we've seen pictures, even this morning, live pictures of tanks massed at the border with gaza. i don't expect you to reveal your war plans on national television here, but are you fully expecting to go across the border sometime soon? >> well, we are waiting the government's decision. of course, in the meantime, we are increasing our preparedness, both in terms of troop training and operational planning. we, of course, will be ready whenever the government makes their decision. >> are you confident, major, that the civilians in northern gaza that you've now given several days to move south, to clear out the area, especially around gaza city, are you confident that those civilians have moved out of there, to the

extent that you're comfortable now to go in? >> well, first of all, we encourage those who have not let to do so. we know hamas is making it quite difficult for them to do that. of course, this message to them has been out for several days because it is our hope that as many as possible are able to move to areas that will be safer, that we have designated. of course, we understand that hamas is making it very, very difficult for them to do that, horrifically so, in fact. >> major, good morning. could you give us an update, please, on where things stand with the corridor that's supposed to be opened up with egypt? you know, i know there is a real security situation there. you guys are watching carefully. as least as of a short time ago, it'd not opened. has your government received any updates as to when it might? >> this is, of course, something on the diplomatic level would have to be addressed. i don't know to give you the specifics on that. of course, we will facilitate whatever decision will be made by the government in terms of that corridor.

>> major, it's richard haass. if you were to go in, the israeli defense forces were to go in, what is your understanding of your definition of success? if it is to eliminate hamas, who would then administer gaza? who would have the political authority of running day-to-day gaza? >> i'm speaking, of course, from the military perspective, so i'm limited in the scope of a larger, long-term plan that i could provide you, simply because i don't know that that's a military issue. from the military perspective, the goal here is to make sure that hamas no longer has any capacity to do what we saw that they did on october 7th, and what they continue to do since that massacre just about two weeks ago. so, of course, that means making sure that they no longer have the military capacity that we saw and they don't have the administrative capacity to do that either. that's certainly what we will do and what the military focuses at this stage. >> one element of your security situation is obviously to degrade hamas. what is israel doing to

reconstitute its defenses in the south and west of the country? obviously, they were much weaker than people thought. they were overrun. can you say something about what is going on inside israel to reduce israel's vulnerability to something like this ever happening again? >> there's no doubt there will be long-term lessons that will be learned and, of course, those will be addressed at a later stage. right now, there has been an active callup of more than 300,000 reservists who are, of course, very much monitoring the situation along not only the southern border but elsewhere. we are monitoring the situation closely, as well as in the northern border. this is what the focus is really at this stage. >> major, there are fears that when this ground invasion happens, if it indeed does, the attacks from the north will begin, from hezbollah, another, of course, iran-backed group. are you prepared for that circumstance and to defend israel to the north, as well? >> we're monitoring the

situation very, very closely. of course, we will be prepared to defend the country. we do send a message and a question, perhaps, is a better way to say it, to lebanon, which is to say, you know, is it in their interest to join hamas in what is taking place and to pay some price that will inevitably come as a result of that? i would hope their answer would be no. but, of course, we will defend ourselves as needed, wherever we need to. >> finally, major, the explosion at the hospital inside gaza a couple days ago, hamas blamed israel. our own reporting and that of the united states government shows that it was not, in fact, an israeli rocket. it was likely an explosion from a hamas rocket. can you say definitively that that explosion at the hospital did not come from the israeli defense forces? >> right, it did not come from us. of course, the research that was done and then the vetting that was done on the u.s. side and by others clearly confirms that. i think the rush to assume that

it was us and to somehow take hamas' word is, of course, very concerning and unfortunate. i don't know how we can trust the words of people who kidnapped babies and the elderly and, of course, hamas will lie and has no issue to continue lying about this. as was stated again, as well, by the u.s., it was not israeli fire in any capacity that led to that. >> spokesperson for the israeli defense forces, mjor libby weiss, thank you for your time. we appreciate it. coming up next here, we'll have much more from president biden's address last night, calling on congress to support a massive funding package for israel and ukraine. and one of our next guests will explain why the republican party seems like it is such a mess right now. it is such a mess right now and cannot unify. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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hamas and putin represent different threats, but they share this in common. they both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy. completely annihilate it. hamas' stated purpose for existing is the destruction of the state of israel and the murder of jewish people. hamas uses palestinian people as human shields, and innocent palestinian families are suffering greatly because of that. meanwhile, putin denies ukraine has or ever had real statehood. he claims the soviet union created ukraine. >> top of the hour. president biden last night laying out the threats the united states and our allies face from hamas and russian president vladimir putin. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, october 20th. jonathan lemire and richard haass are still with us. joining the conversation, we have former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill.

and former cia officer marc polymeropoulos, national security and intelligence analyst. good to have you both. >> claire, i want to get your take on the astros and the rangers later. >> no. >> i think right now, we're going to talk about the president's speech. richard brought up a great point about the three markers the president laid down. we always talk about doing two things at once. last night, he told israel, we're on your side. we're going to be with you as you fight this terrorist organization that raped, killed, tortured, and burned israeli citizens. at the same time, he said what, you know, the three markers he laid down, reminded me of what david ignatius wrote in a column a week or so ago, that israel needs to fight this war thinking about the day after. that's exactly what joe biden said. he said, don't repeat our mistakes. limit casualties. know that we're all moving

toward a two-state solution. talk about how artfully that speech was crafted last night. so much so, fox news contributors are saying it was a great speech. >> yeah. i think he really did an amazing job last night. he was in command. he was strong. he took the moral high ground. he took the ground that americans should be most comfortable with. that is, we do have a stake around the world in democracies, in standing up to thugs and bad guys and torturers, and, you know, violent extremists. so here's the thing, he said out loud, two-state solution. that has not -- those words have not come out of bibi netanyahu's mouth in a long time. i think that's the other thing he did in this speech. he signalled very strongly to those in power in israel that we

are not retreating from the goal of achieving peaceful co-existence of two states encompassed within the territory of israel. that of the israelis and that of the palestinians. i think everything they do as they try to wipe out hamas, and i think most americans are very supportive of that, everything they do, they also have to keep an eye on, how do they influence the israeli government to get back to the table and get serious once again about a two-state solution? >> well, claire, i'm so glad you said that, because, i mean, bibi netanyahu has run away from that. u.s. leaders, the trump administration didn't focus on that, obviously. it needs to be focused on again. i say this as a strong supporter of israel, mika. i've always said this, we need a

two-state solution. not just for the palestinian people. >> right. >> but also for the safety and long-term security of the israeli people. can't do that with a terrorist organization next door like hamas. i get it. you couldn't negotiate with hamas. but whoever replaces hamas, if it is a u.n./arab peacekeeping force, and there is leadership there, they need to work for a two-state solution there and in the west bank. >> here's more of what president biden said last night, explaining, really, why supporting both israel and ukraine in their respective wars is critical to u.s. national security. >> i know these conflicts can seem far away, and it is natural to ask, why does this matter for america? let me share why ukraine and israel succeeding is vital to

america's security. when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos, death, and more destruction. they keep going. the cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising. if we walk away and let putin erase ukraine's independence, would-be aggressors around the world will be emboldened to try the same. the risk of conflict and chaos could spread into other parts of the world. in the indo-pacific, in the middle east, especially in the middle east. iran is supporting russia in ukraine, and it is supporting hamas and other terrorist groups in the region. we'll continue to hold them accountable, i might add. tonight, there are innocent people all over the world who hope because of us, who believe in a better life because of us, who are desperate not to be forgotten by us, and who are waiting for us. but time is of the essence.

i know we have our divisions at home. we have to get past them. we can't let petty partisan, angry politics get in the way of our responsibility as a great nation. we cannot and will not let terrorists like hamas and tyrants like putin win. i refuse to let that happen. >> claire, have you been struck in the last two weeks or so by president biden's clarity and how unequivocal he's been in his support for israel? obviously, flying into a hot war zone puts an exclamation mark on all of that. as joe said, we heard brit hume celebrating this speech last night. we've had conservative columnists saying this is biden's finest hour. people who made their living attacking joe biden begrudingly celebrating what he did the last two weeks. what did you see from the speech and the visits leading up to it? >> i know it is fashionable to

want to be for somebody never around government. let's hire a football coach to make foreign policy decisions or, you know, let's hire someone who has no idea about the history and the context of this conflict, to occupy the oval office. joe biden lived foreign policy for decades. joe biden became vice president because of his foreign policy chops. that is why he was selected as vice president. he had such a working knowledge of the world and its leaders. so this is joe biden's sweet spot. this is where he is comfortable and confident about what he believes and why he believes it. in his bones, he believes that america has to stand up at moments like this. that's what he is showing. he is showing it not only by what he says but by what he does. frankly, he's done a lot to

dispel the notion that, somehow, he's not up to the job, the last few weeks. it's been maybe the strongest two weeks of his presidency in the face of the chaotic, crazytown that the republican party has become. >> yeah. of course, political truism, that elections are rarely decided on foreign policy, but there is no doubt, to claire's point, biden advisors i speak to say they believe he has been masterful, both in terms of his leadership with ukraine, now more than a year and a half, and now this situation in israel, as well. he linked the two of them together. i think it also speaks to the experience, that president biden is still shaped by the cold war, shaped by his decades in government, and truly believes, despite divisions at home, that america remains the indispensable nation. he quoted albright last night. it is clear that president biden believes that in his bones, but there's so much out of his career. we saw it this week when the summit in jordan was pulled down as he was boarding air force one and he wasn't able to meet with

arab leaders. he has delivered messages, the markers you highlighted earlier, to the israeli government, but it's also clear the israeli government said, we're listening but we're not committing to anything. we don't know what they'll do when they go to gaza, an operation we think will happen soon. walk us through how the next few days could play out, when the operation starts. what do we think the reaction of the rest of the arab world will be? what violence could lay ahead? >> i agree the president handled the last few weeks extraordinarily well. it was good to remind people the ukraine issue hasn't gone away. may have been pushed off page one but it's very much there. there are two big variables for the next week, jonathan. someone exactly the scale of what the israelis do. how do they come to define success? how big is it? ultimately, they'll have the answer for how long. we know there will be an immediate, loud call for cease-fires and so forth. how do you somehow square the circle of an israeli, large-scale entry into gaza, with continued provision of aid and so forth? i think there's that tangle of

issues. what actually happens there? second of all, it's what we've been eluded to, does this in any way contribute to a decision by hezbollah, really iran, to open up a second front? that is the other variable. what you see, again, the president was trying to do is limit the scale of what the israelis are doing, in part because there's the assessment that if it is, in fact, big, it reduces the likelihood that you will have a large second front. maybe a small one, not a large one. those are the two things to really watch in the region. then the question is, how do we handle, in new york, at the u.n., and elsewhere, the pressure for a cease-fire? israel is going to say, way too soon. we have got work to do. we have the right and the need to strike back against hamas, the russians, the chinese, the french, and probably others are going to call for a cease-fire. how does the united states manage that tension between pressure for a cease-fire, israeli desire to see through a military operation? i would watch that.

again, to see whether hezbollah can be persuaded to stand on the sidelines. >> you know, i think we would probably hear the israelis say the same thing to us -- or say the same thing to those people calling for a cease-fire now as we would have said on september 12th, if somebody said, "you know, you really need a cease-fire with al qaeda right now and just talk it out." i don't think that's going to happen. >> yeah. >> they're terrorists. >> yes, they are. marc, you're taking a closer look at israel's intelligence failure that failed to stop the hamas terror attack. you write in part, quote, humility is t notion that sometimee do make mistakes. must own up to them, and then we can determine how t best fix things. i am not privy to my former classified world, but i sense that the after-action reviews will be brutal. from israel'soverreliance on technology, such as a border fence and sensors, to the u.s. likely ceding the hamas target to israel because of other

priorities in counterterrorism, the forensics will lay bare what occurred. humility is the best response afteruch an event. this leads me to my final point. human intelligence, the recruitment of spies and, in this case, a penetration of hamas seems to have been neglec a single source can change the course of history. that is a dramati statement, but that is often what i tell college students when i lecture on national security and the intelligence community. yeah, there will be a lot of after-action reports, joe. >> there will. >> what president biden did by continuing with the trip, even though the arab nations pulled out of the summit, meeting with netanyahu, holding him close, then, remarkably, meeting with the war cabinet, i think it was smart for israel and netanyahu. >> yeah. >> given the criticism he is

receiing for the late response and the fact this even happened, and the way he was running his government and, you know, and the indictments he faces. there's a lot of questions. >> it's a great point. a bear hug is not going to save -- >> the meeting with the war cabinet, it is transparency, like, let's look at this. >> i agree. i'm saying on the israeli side, we're talking about after-action reports. >> yeah. >> a hug with joe biden may help in the short term but it's not going to help netanyahu in the long term. >> no. >> marc, let's talk about this. it's systemic. you and i talked about this before the attack. i've been hearing from israeli sources, and i'm sure you have for the past year, about the split. you have the secular military and intel leaders that were protesting netanyahu's attack against the supreme court and the court system. you had them on one side, and you had netanyahu and a bunch of right-wing religious supporters

on the other side. i'm talking far right-wing. what we heard for a year leading up to this was, at least i did, and you can confirm if you want to, that netanyahu got a lot of the professionals out. he was surrounded, i'm just using, just quoting what i was told before the attacks, he surrounded himself with a bunch of idealogical clowns that weren't good for the military and weren't good for the intel community. that's why i think so this israels are glad to see this coalition government, where professionals are coming back into the cabinet. when we talk about the intel failures, much of it will have to do with intel failures. much of it will have to do with military failures. man, i've got to believe most of it, when they really dig in there, it's going to be surrounded with political failures by politicians who took their eyes off of job one.

when you're running israel, you're protecting israel. that is job one. you're not protecting yourself from indictments, and you're not protecting yourself from the supreme court. you're not protecting yourself from the judicial system. i'm not saying this with any idealogical slant. i'm just saying, it's hard to believe that's not where this after-action report is is going to really, really reveal some of israel's failings and why israel's leader slept. >> joe, it is interesting. you know, in the days after the attack, ronan barr, the head of shinbat, a career officer, had been a commando in israel's most elite unit, then joined as a field agent and rose up through the ranks. he came out and took responsibility for the intel failures. the head of israeli military intelligence the other day did the same. what you haven't heard, of course, is netanyahu do so. the after-action report is going

to be brutal, as i noted, and the political dynamic is going to have to be addressed. that said, i do think that the israeli services are going to have to take a look at themselves. the idea that, if there was a 2,000-man terrorist army which involved logistics, planning, training, that they were not able to recruit just a single source. i call it the power of one. one single source could have altered perhaps the course of certainly the near-term history in the middle east. >> marc, tell me why it took six hours when israelis were being tortured, beaten, and their neighbors being burned and raped, why did it take the army six hours to get down there and kill the terrorists? >> you know, it looks like at this point in time, the army is actually -- was actually deployed in the west bank because of a lot of problems between settlers and the palestinians, and hamas and others in the west bank. there's going to be a lot of questions on that.

did israel rely on, you know, technical means, on signals intelligence, sensors? >> i hate to stop you there. i hate to stop you there, marc. i'll get back to you in one second. claire, i need to go to you here. i'm only doing this -- again, the only thing i care about is the safety of israelis and the security of israelis as i talk about this. claire, this is something else. you and i probably heard it, and you have probably heard it for a year now. netanyahu was so obsessed with the west bank, pushing settlements, pushing palestinians out of their homes, expanding the settlements for political purposes. because when he did that, when he expanded israeli settlements in the west bank, which was his obsession and it was his focus, it helped him with his far-right orthodox supporters.

so he was obsessed on the west bank for political purposes, and while he was obsessed in expanding settlements into palestinian territories, you had hamas planning a brutal attack that killed thousands of israelis. >> yeah. netanyahu, i'm sure it will not happen right now because they want to have a unity government, but he is in big trouble. by the way, let's add this to the equation, joe. not only was he politically focused on the west bank because he was trying to keep his coalition together, which embraced some of the most extreme orthodox, jewish fashions in israel. he actually, that faction, those folks don't support the military. so you have a growing orthodox population in israel, but they are the ones that do not go to the military. they do not fight on behalf of the israeli citizens.

they do not protect them from hamas and from hezbollah. so it is really an internal domestic thorny, thorny problem for israel, to how to reconcile the far-right orthodox and the security needs of the country, especially because the orthodox population is growing at a much larger pace than the rest of the non-orthodox population. so this is a security problem wrapped in a political problem wrapped in a netanyahu problem. i think the netanyahu problem will go away in a little bit, but it's a big part of this, the reason this happened. >> well, wrapped in a religion problem. marc, i'm so sorry i interrupted you, but you brought up the west bank. again, all i'm saying here is what i've been hearing over the past year. and the warnings i've been hearing from sources on israel. marc, i'm sure you have, too. go ahead. you brought up the west bank. i wanted to claire to explain

the politics of that and how that actually was one of the reasons the government may have taken their eyes off of hamas and focused politically on the west bank. go ahead with your thoughts. >> sure. so it has to do with resources. if the idf is moved to the est bank, away from their usual posts at gaza, just by definition, they're not there to deploy in case of crisis. now, the is hinbat director, when he did his mea culpa, he noted many were killed in the attack. the idf is supposed to be this shield and the intelligence service, as well. the fact that they were not there, you know, manning the ramparts on the border, in particular, when there was this music festival within kilometers. joe, the way i look at this, it is almost like an airplane crash. there were so many factors that went into this disaster.

the power of one, a single source, you know, if one single penetration of hamas had been able to tell israeli security establishment what was happening, and this is a source who could be tasked and debriefed, it's not like an intercept, a piece of imagery, it is a dynamic relationship. if they'd gotten that one piece right, perhaps we're not here today. some of the other failures would not have been as significant. >> obviously, this was not spontaneous. this was long planned. marc, one of the big fears americans have here at home is that the united states will be drawn into a war here. the pentagon has confirmed that american forces in the red sea shot down three cruise missiles and several drones launched from yemen yesterday, potentially targeting israel. that's according to brigadier general ryder, who said the weapons were launched by i ran-backed houthi rebels. we know the missiles were headed north along the red sea when they were shot down. this comes amid a rise in

attacks on u.s. troops in the region, with drones targeting u.s. military prosig positions a and iraq. our troops in an air base in western iraq, they shot down the drones but they were coming for u.s. troops. the state department issued a rare, worldwide caution, worldwide to american citizens traveling around the world, given all that's going on. what do you read into these attacks on american troops and the fact that those houthi missiles were shot down by a destroyer? >> so, willie, this is a really tense time. i spent almost three decades in the intelligence community. most of the time in the middle east. you know, this is a tinderbox now. what we're seeing is very clearly, and the leaders of the pentagon salespersoncertainly ks iran is testing us. they're using proxies, the houthis in yemen who apparently shot rockets and missiles toward

israel, intercepted by a u.s. destroyer. this is iran sending a message, that we're here and ready. you have two militaries, in essence, facing off against each other. i'm talking about u.s. and, of course, iran and all its proxies, whether it is hezbollah, palestine, islamic jihad or hamas. here's the worry in terms of escalation. we can send messages to iran. iran is sending messages to us. biden's trip had a lot to do with the idea of not escalating. what if something goes wrong? what if four, five or ten, god forbid, u.s. forces in iraq or syria are killed by an iranian proxy? that's where this can get really ugly and very quickly. >> former cia officer marc polymeropoulos, thank you very much for your insight this morning. trucks carrying humanitarian aid for gaza are lined up at the rafah crossing this morning in egypt. they're waiting to let in -- to be let in once an agreement between israel and egypt is made. right now, both sides are trying to hammer out the details on the

logistics of this much-needed aid. let's go live to nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez, who is in ashdod, israel, this morning. raf, you're following the developing humanitarian crisis in gaza. what can you share with us? >> reporter: mika, this was supposed to be the day. this was supposed to be the day the rafah border crossing opened, that those trucks carrying humanitarian aid from egypt reached gaza, that hopefully palestinian-americans were able to leave gaza, head to the relative safety of egypt. it is coming up on 2:30 here on this friday in the middle east. that border crossing remains closed. now, the secretary general of the united nations is there at that crossing. it's about 50 miles south of where we are now. he says he is heartbroken that there is not yet a deal to get that aid inside. he says these are not just trucks. these are a lifeline. getting them through is a matter of life and death. now, we don't know the exact

details of this holdup, but we do know there have been a number of broad issues, where there was always going to be back and forth between the israelis and the egyptians. one of them is this question of fuel. the united nations authorities in gaza, including hamas, are saying they absolutely need fuel if they are going to deliver the aid. they absolutely need diesel fuel to keep the generators go at the hospitals. the israelis very concerned that that fuel is going to be used by hamas. they're also very concerned about weapons being smuggled in amid all of this humanitarian aid. the reality is, there's no real mechanism on the ground inside gaza to check for weapons, for anything else that was brought in. they are relying on the egyptians, and it seems like they have not yet set up a regime that is satisfying all sides. for the 2 million palestinians in gaza who have been more than a week without, largely without

water, without food, without fuel, without electricity, this is too little, too late. i've been speaking to a young woman, jumana, shaheen, her daughter, sophia, turned 2 on the fourth day of this war. she expresses the frustration that so many people in gaza are feeling. they feel the world has abandoned them. listen to what she had to say. >> we don't know what will happen to us. can you imagine? we don't know what will happen to our life in the upcoming hours. we are losing our lives. we are losing our lives. we are losing everything. we don't have to feed all of

this confusing feelings. >> reporter: and jumana is one of so many parents in gaza, so many parents on both sides of this war, just trying to keep their kids safe. mika? >> nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez, thank you so much. jonathan lemire, the plight of the palestinians was also included in the president's remarks and thoughts yesterday. >> white house aides gave reporters a heads-up in the hours before the speech to pay particularly attention to this. heads-up given the arab and muslim groups throughout the united states. this was going to be a central piece of what the president had to say last night. some was about at home, the hate crimes, about that poor boy in illinois who was murdered. but he also focused on, richard, the plight of the palestinians. now, that corridor that hasn't opened yet was perceived as one of the key triumphs of president biden's visit to israel this week. the phone call followed up with

the president of egypt to make sure that would happen. it hasn't yet. it'd be disastrous if it weren't to open. white house aides believe. talk to us about how important it is right now for not just president biden to be perceived as caring about the plight of the palestinians, hammer that home to the israelis, as well, to maybe quell anger in the region and prevent this from escalating further. >> it is important on so many levels. one is the humanitarian. >> of course. >> it is heart wrenching. also, we have a problem. the egyptians are not a full partner. they've always been nervous about opening up that border crossing, for what it might mean. you have, as raf pointed out, no real mechanism inside gaza for making sure that, one, it is only humanitarian supplies, and, two, they reach the right people rather than being siphoned off. there's that issue. i think there's also a problem with the war going on and the fact that, in this case, israeli ordinance is landing in gaza. i think if the situation gets

worse in gaza and, unfortunately, looks like it may well, it wasn't good to begin with, as you and i know, i think the pressures will grow. coming back to our previous conversation on israel to do something. one of the ideas we may see here, and it might make sense, is having certain pauses. it might not be a bad idea for israel to offer certain pauses in the air war. say 48 hours or whatever to allow certain supplies to get in. challenge hamas. challenge the other groups. let's see who is in favor of the palestinian people. doesn't mean israel has to give up on its strategic goals of degrading hamas, but there might be a case every now and then for certain pauses, just to allow the humanitarian supplies to get in. otherwise, again, i think the calls for a cease-fire, permanent cease-fire, will grow to a crescendo. still ahead on "morning joe," we expect a third vote this morning on jim jordan's bid to become house speaker. our next guests will break down what his chances are this time

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this is a new american revolution, and anyone who wants this country to remain free, step up. altering a vote or changing a ballot is a federal felony. people need to get on the right side of this issue and report the fraud they know existed in dominion voting systems, because that's what it was created to do. it's been organized and conducted with the help of silicon valley people. the big tech companies, the social media companies, and even the media companies. i'm going to release the kraken. >> wow.

she did. that's attorney sidney powell three years ago falsely claiming donald trump won the presidential election. those comments and more led to powell's indictment in the fulton county interference case. now, powell is pleading guilty to the charges related to conspiring to overturn trump's loss. as part of her plea deal, the dallas-based lawyer agreed to testify against the other co-defendants, including the former president. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. joyce, how big is this in the grand scheme of themes, in terms of donald trump's georgia election interference case? >> this is a big deal if powell lives up to the obligation to testify truthfully. she's part of trump's inner circle. she was involved in the december 18 meeting at the white house

where they discussed last-ditch measures and an effort for trump to hold on to the presidency, including this just crazy notion that powell would somehow become special counsel with powers to investigate voting machines after they were seized by the government. she's right in the thick of it. if her testimony is truthful, it should be compelling. >> is it too much to assume that they think she has some testimony that could be valuable, and what if she decides not to flip or break? what happens? >> right. those are the right questions to ask, mika. clearly, prosecutors decided, and they have heard a taped statement she gave them in advance of the plea agreement in hand now. the deal they've given her, they've relinquished the felonies. she pleads to six misdemeanors and will not serve a day in prison. that's the kind of deal you give

to a high-valued cooperator. of course, what prosecutors now have to hold over powell's head is that if she fails to cooperate or if she is untruthful in testimony, she loses her deal and she's back to the point where she was before, facing spending 5 to 20 years in georgia state prisons. >> joyce, of course, we're talking about the fulton county case here. she pleads guilty a day before her trial, expected to testify in the case. but you say this could have implications for the federal case against donald trump around the 2020 election, as well. >> i think that's right, willie. it has to have implications that direction because her testimony in georgia would be admissible if jack smith decided to try her down the road in washington, or if she took the witness stand, she could be called in that case. if her testimony was different, she could be impeached or she could potentially face perjury charges. this is the kind of thing for a

defendant, where once you stick your toe in the water, you have to jump all the way in. she doesn't want to avoid prison in georgia only to face federal custody. i think this is a signal that powell has either worked out a global deal with jack smith or that she's seeking to cooperate with federal prosecutors, as well. >> claire mccaskill, the kraken has flipped. let's get your analysis here, drawing on your background as to what this could mean for donald trump, to be sure, but also others. that georgia case, in particular, there are more than a dozen defendants, nearly two. could we see a domino effect where others may d to cooperate, as well? >> yeah. this is a classic case where there are a number of defendants indicted with an eye toward gaining their cooperation in truthful testimony against the people who should hold most responsibility. this is, frankly, the plan that

is executed on a daily basis in prosecutors' offices and u.s. attorney offices around the country. you want to take the less culpable, and you want to encourage them with charges to be truthful against the more culpable. this is a big problem. i think this took the trump folks by surprise. i don't think they thought this particular version of crazytown was going to flip. she clearly has. you know, joyce, my question to you is, as you look at all these witnesses, and some of these witnesses are going to be applicable in more than one case, you know, it's been radio silent about any cooperation between jack smith and the fulton county d.a., and jack smith and the d.a. in new york. are you getting any whiff with your contacts in justice? are they talking to each other? because even on scheduling, and

i'm thinking back to the times i had to cross-examine someone, and i was really wanting there to be something in writing. especially when you cross-examine a defendant, many times, they've said nothing and you have nothing that you can tie them to in terms of previous testimony. well, on the other hand, if you have somebody who has given lots of previous testimony, there's always the ability of a defense attorney to pick apart the various parts of it. so the coordination in all these cases, to me, seems overwhelming. what's your take on that? >> i think it's a really interesting question, claire. you're right, the special counsel's office has been a black box when it comes to cooperation with other offices. sometimes i think it's been even difficult to tell whether local u.s. attorney offices have been involved. you might expect to see some involvement by the u.s. attorney's office in atlanta with fulton county, andhat's not been apparentn any way. look, it's clear to me that jack

smith has one goal, and that's to try his cases as quickly as possible with as little distraction as possible. but it's impossible for me to believe at this point there's not an open line of cooperation between jack smith and fani willis. you, i think, identify the exact right why that is essential. it is because of this notion that what witnesses say in one case can be used in another case, but it can also be used by defense lawyers. jack smith needs to know what's going on in fani willis' case. that means he has to open those lines of communication and make sure that there's coordination, if not cooperation, between the two offices. >> former u.s. attorney joyce vance, co-host of the great "sisters-in-law" podcast. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. still ahead, how a group of anonymous americans is working to hold the fbi's feet to the

fire. online sleuths are helping bring the january 6th insurrectionists to justice. often working from their couches and kitchen tables. we'll dig into these open source researchers ahead. first, willie, what do you have planned for "sunday today"? >> well, of course, first, as we wait for this potential israeli invasion of gaza, we'll be live on the ground there with full coverage. then as we do, we'll make the turn to a breath of fresh air. a favorite conversation with kate hudson. why not? we need a little kate hudson in our lives. we talked about her career that began with "almost famous" 21 years old, nominated for an oscar there, through to her most recent, "the knives out movie: glass onion." plus, complete coverage of the war between israel and hamas coming up, over on nbc, "sunday today." we'll be right back here on "morning joe."

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i'll say this, we made the pitch to members on the resolution as a way to lower the temperature and get back to work. we decided that wasn't where we're going to go. i'm still running for speaker, and i plan to go to the floor and get the votes and win this race. but i want to go talk with a few of my colleagues. particularly, i want to talk with the 20 individuals who voted against me so that we can move forward and begin to work for the american people. >> what's he going to talk to them about, the legislation he passed? no. because he didn't pass any. election denying? i don't know. congressman jim jordan yesterday on capitol hill after yet another messy day for house republicans. there's a third vote scheduled for later this morning on his bid to become speaker of the house. this is historic. joining us now, special correspondent at "vanity fair"

and host of "the fast politics podcast," molly jong-fast. and "politico's" jonathan martin. you have a piece for "politico" magazine that explains why the gop can't unite. you write in part this in "politico," there is no longer a cohesive republican party. there are pre-trump. there's a pre-trump gop and a post-trump gop living together uneasily. they may be roommates but they're not married. former president donald trump's takeover of the gop has accelerated the remake of congress, where republicans in his image have been arriving since 2018, while those anchored in the ryan-era party have either folwed the former speaker's path to the exits or accommodated the party's transition. this is a political-leaning conference right now, not a policy-leaning conference. former house speaker paul ryan told me. which makes sense, he added,

because, quote, our party is a populist-leaning party right now, not a policy-leaning party. explain these pre-trump and post-trump. >> sure. >> it sounds like will and jada. >> it's basically two simultaneous parties operating, you know, under the same flag but not a singular organization anymore. it is a fitful marriage, if you can call it even a marriage. you see that in the house. this is why they can't find a speaker. this is why the party is fractured when it comes to the presidential race. because half of the party, and the other half of the party is happily accommodating this sort of trump era, and so because of that, they can't come to a consensus. so kevin mccarthy, mika, will try to have a foot in both worlds. it lasted for nine months, but

you can't sustain that, and i think this is part of the challenge is that they're now looking for a speaker. jordan obviously is a trumpy figure, but that is just not acceptable for, you know, enough house gop folks that he can find the votes. so this is why we're at a standstill. it's effectively a coalition government struggling to be born because it's not one party any longer. >> so molly, i mean, there's obviously incredibly serious business to be undertaken at this moment. $105 billion package is what president biden is going to propose in support of israel and ukraine. they need somebody in charge to help that get approved and the money out the door, but there's a group as you have been writing about for a long time now, of republicans that don't mind this. matt gaetz and the rest of that group. they like the chaos. they like being seven or eight people who can control the entire house of representatives. so there's no urgency among those people to get a speaker of the house. they're fine. they're getting attention.

they're getting likes. they're getting hits on cable news. this is all right by them. >> yeah, and they're getting small dollar donations too. remember -- >> right. >> this is the burn it down caucus. these are people who are really nihilists. they don't -- they're not invested in government success and that i think is ultimately jim jordan's biggest problem now is that he's such a nihilist. he's done so little legislation, almost none, and he is so sort of, you know, he runs completely contrary to all the ideas of, like, the federal government existing, and so you've come to a point where the burn it down caucus is quite literally burning themselves down. >> so let's talk about the odd dynamic between what's happening in the house and the 2024 republican presidential candidates. >> sure. >> some of them pretending they don't care and have an opinion. we had chris christie on the show and he wouldn't talk about jim jordan even though we pushed him to eventually do so.

we now trump's weighed in, and he says jordan is his guy. give us your analysis to what's happening there. >> trump is not that interested in who's speaker of the house because it doesn't directly affect his life and trump is effectively the leader of the party. i think if trump was leaning his shoulder into this, he may be able to scare enough people to at least get jordan close, but trump is just not going to spend that kind of capital. that's not what he does. he's not somebody who goes to the mat for other people. so i think that's part of the challenge here is that jordan can't leverage the biggest voice in the party to help, and even if he could, i'm not sure that would get him enough votes. it would get him closer though, certainly, but i think for the other candidates out there, there's just no obvious upside if you are trying to win votes in iowa, new hampshire, and taking sides in a house speaker race. they have enough challenges going on in their race, but the larger point here of it i'm making in the column about this

bifercated party, is you have really half of the party up for grabs, looking at candidates. desantis and haley and christie, and they're going through all the rituals, debates in candidate forums and the other half of the party has long made up its mind. they're for trump. it's a done deal, and you almost have this parallel primary going on, one of which looks like every other primary we have had in the past, and the other which is really a coronation for the person who's already the party leader. >> yeah. we should note there's a brand-new national poll, molly, from emerson that suggests donald trump's lead is 59-8. >> wow. >> 59-8. desantis and haley both tied at race. this isn't a race, really. it's not a race, but let's get back here to -- i won't ask you to predict what's going to happen in the house because nobody knows, not even them, but if this chaos continues, there's

also a government shutdown looming and the inability to fund ukraine and israel. do you think this is something that will make republicans be punished for this at the ballot box next year? >> i mean, they've raised a lot of money, but it does seem like they will be punished for the fact that they cannot get a speaker when they have a majority. i think it will be interesting today, kevin -- jim jordan is going to try the kevin mccarthy path of trying to sort of grind it out and do votes until he gets the numbers. i don't, you know, every piece of reporting i've read and people i've talked to have made it pretty clear that that's going to be a hard hill to climb. i think he thinks he can do it. i mean, i think it's unlikely, and every day they go without a speaker -- i think we're at 18 days or 17 days, and it's bad look for them and it's very good for democrats. you don't even need oppo research. just print what they say. >> molly jong-fast, and jonathan

martin, thank you both very much for trying to make sense of what's going on on capitol hill, and one more headline out of washington. democratic senator laphonza butler said yesterday she will not seek a full 2024 term opening the senate race for an array of eager candidates. in an interview with "the new york times," butler said she realized her senate position is not the greatest use of her voice, and she intends to be a champion of california until the end of her term. butler was appointed by gavin newsom this month after the death of longtime senator dianne feinstein. and up next, more of president biden's speech addressing the stakes for democracy amid wars in eastern europe and the middle east. plus, congresswoman mikie sherrill will be here this morning talking about the israel/hamas war and much more.

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american leadership is what holds the world together. american alliance is what keep us, americans safe. american values are what make us a partner other nations want to work with. we put all of that at risk if we turn our backs on ukraine and turn our backs on israel. it's just not worth it. >> part of president biden's address last night urging americans and congress to continue to support ukraine and israel in the vastly different wars each is fighting. we'll go live to israel for the latest on the expected ground invasion of gaza. meanwhile, republicans are somehow creating even more chaos on capitol hill. with another speaker's vote scheduled for this morning, it comes as the temporary speaker is getting fed up and is now threatening to resign. plus, we'll get expert legal

analysis on the surprise guilty plea from one of the many defendants in the georgia election interference case. that's a big one. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, october 20th. i would love to get both you and willie's reaction to the president's speech last night. i thought it was really effective. sort of part teacher, part influencer and trying to spread the word of democracy. >> part comforter. there's no doubt, willie, that last night's speech -- you never know what to expect with the president's speech, and you think sometimes there are going to be some platitudes here and there. i'm talking any president. last night was a significant speech. this was a speech that was delivered on the heels of china and russia's leaders getting together. russia's foreign minister in kim jong-un getting together, iran and hamas coming together. we heard the term back in 2003,

axis of evil. if that word is offensive to people out there this morning, we'll make them spit out their lattes. there is an axis of anti-american forces out there that are coming together that want to recreate the world in their own tyrannical image. joe biden gave a speech last night. it was a speech that talked about america's role at the time that a lot of republicans on the far-fight and a lot of the democrats on the far-left want to retreat, and joe biden's not for retreating. he also was a comforter in chief. i thought it was very moving when he said, if you are hurting out there, whether you are jewish or muslim, i hear you. you are part of our family. you are an american.

for those, an incredibly important thing to say. i'm so glad he said it. he also called the father of a 6-year-old child who was brutally murdered. >> yeah. >> senselessly murdered, he comforted him letting him know that he and jill were praying for them, and it was -- i've got to say it was a surprise of a speech for me, and it surprised some people who aren't joe biden fans. brett hume called it at points remarkable, and said it was by far -- it was a critically important speech and the best speech of the president's career. >> yeah. this president has had, it seems, absolute clarity on this issue since the war actually going back to ukraine, but especially in the last two weeks since hamas attacked israel. there's been no equivocating in his support for israel, the way he talks about america's relationship with israel. he flew into a hot war zone two days ago to stand shoulder to shoulder with the prime

minister, and that was on display i think last night, and you're right. at a time when you have putin meeting with president xi, you have rebels and different iran-backed groups trying to attack with drones. it feels like a very heavy, dangerous, serious moment for americans who are watching this all play out and wondering where our place is with this, and the president was trying to settle a little less. we have an important role to play. we're the united states of america, but we can do this. we can continue to support ukraine. here's a reminder why that's important, and we must support israel. here's why that's important if you are wondering, and he did something we heard president bush do in the days after 9/11 which was try to reassure muslim americans that they are a part of all of this, that they have a safe place to be, and to talk about that beautiful 6-year-old boy who was murdered just for being muslim. so it was -- it was a pretty extraordinary speech, and i would say in a string of extraordinary moments this

president has had in the last two weeks. >> he's very much in the moment and understands the assignment clearly from his decades of experience and mistakes made in foreign policy over time. it's brought him to this place where he truly understands the mission here. here's president biden calling on americans to support both israel and ukraine in their respective wars, and explaining why it's critical to our national security. >> hamas and putin represent different threats, but they share this in common. they both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy, completely annihilate it. hamas' state of purpose for existing is just getting rid of jewish people. hamas does not represent the palestinian people. they use the palestinian people as human shields and innocent palestinian families are suffering greatly because of them. meanwhile, putin denies ukraine has or ever had real statehood. he claims the soviet union

created ukraine. i know these conflicts can seem far away. it's natural to ask, why does this matter to america? so let me share with you why making sure israel and ukraine succeed is vital for america's national security. you know, history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. they keep going, and the cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising, and if we walk away and let putin erase ukraine's independence, would-be aggressors would be emboldened to try the same. chaos could spread in other parts of the world, in the indo-specific, in the middle east, especially in the middle east. iran is supporting russia in ukraine, and it's supporting hamas and other terrorist groups in the region and we'll continue to hold them accountable, i

might add. tonight, there are innocent people all over the world who hope because of us, who believe in a better life because of us, who are desperate not to be forgotten by us, and are waiting for us, but time is of the essence. i know we have our divisions at home. we have to get past them. we can't let petty, partisan, angry politics get in the way of our responsibility as a great nation. we cannot and will not let terrorists like hamas and tyrants like putin win. i refuse to let that happen. >> let's bring in the host of "way too early," bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire, and richard haas. >> as i was saying, surprised by the scope of this speech to. the importance of this speech. you really had a democrat -- a democratic president going out

there actually -- well, sounding a lot like ronald reagan in the middle of the cold war, saying, we cannot let tyranny win, and it sets up a real battle for republicans between the reagan wing of the party and the josh hawley/charles lindberg wing of the republican party, and last night joe biden was quite forceful and said, the dots, whether you like it or not, the dots do connect from hamas to iran to russia to china to north korea across the world. what will be the impact, richard? >> look. as you would expect given my dna, i like the full-throated support of internationalism, the rejection of the word isolationism even though i don't think he explicitly used that word, joe. i wonder how many minds it would really change. i don't think that many exactly

to those wings of the party as you talk about. >> what about the world stage in because again, the world stage right now is looking at a congress that seriously couldn't make a bowl of oatmeal and wondering where the united states is. they see the president of the united states speaking, again, in such a full-throated way and commentators on fox news praising him for -- the senior commentators praising him for that. >> the contrast. >> the audience is not just the neville chamberlains and the charles lindbergs of this republican party. it's also an international audience watching this, is it not? especially people who consider america their enemies. >> it is. the only thing that doesn't reassure people internationally is when people look at us and i get this three times a day, and people look at our friends and people no longer know what's the normal and the aberration.

people hear joe biden and they don't know if they're only going to be hearing it for 12 more months. there's no doubts about him given ukraine and israel. what there are doubts about is exactly what you're pointing to. to what extent does he still represent america, and to what extent can our friends bank that what talked about was u.s. policy come 2025? that's the only reason it doesn't have the reassuring effect. let me say two other things, joe. one argument i wish the president had introduced into the speech was the idea that not only we should do what he was talking, but we can afford it. the biggest criticism i run into all the time is kind of the old guns versus butter. if we spend this money on ukraine or israel, look at the domestic needs that are going unmet, and what the president could have done is explained how historically we have been able to do both. during the cold war, we spent a

higher percentage of our gdp, and the economy and the society did pretty well during those decades. i wish he had connected that to take on that argument, and then second of all, he talked about how the united states has to make sure both israel and ukraine succeed. for a lot of people though, what's left uncertain is what is his definition of success? yes, ukraine must be independent, but does that mean ukraine and the united states should be funding ukraine to regain every square inch of its territory? and yes, israel must be safe from terrorist attack, but exactly what does that mean? vis-a-vis, what we support in gaza. in that sense, i'm not sure what the president will settle the conversation. >> willie, a president can only get so specific. >> that would have been a lot. >> a president can only get so specific, and he did -- i thought the president actually framed it well when he talked about ukraine by saying, vladimir putin thought he was going to march into kyiv and take over the entire country in three days.

he has failed. for us, that's a definition of success. even holding putin where he is keeps him from his main objective, keeps him from all of his objectives really, and it seems to me that's what the united states has to do. we cannot allow a russian tyrant to march into neighboring capitals. >> and he made the point, connected that you cannot allow a terrorist organization, hamas, to go unchecked in a moment like this, and john, it's a critical case to make because today the president is going to request up to $100 billion in aid for ukraine and israel, a combined package. by the way, doing that in front of a congress that is in complete chaos right now as republicans try to find a speaker of the house for starters. do you think he made that case now when he goes and asks for that much money for two foreign conflicts? do you think they'll coming up with the cash? >> this was a tricky speech to deliver, to try to sell americans on these two distant wars, why it matters so much to

their national security here at home. to that point about letting terrorists or dictators go unchecked, he said, if they do, the costs in america go up too. he said, this matters on our shores even though these conflicts feel so far away. the president, you know, aides have said he spent a lot of time on this speech the last couple of days. you could tell -- he warmed to it as it went along and got more personal when he talked about americans and arab americans and palestinians and how the u.s. feels their plight. he certainly rallied and i thought the speech got better as it went, but now there's the great unknown about what happens on the other side of pennsylvania avenue, joe and mika. $100 billion is an extraordinary amount of money. the president made a forceful case to sell it and it's not just israel and ukraine. it's border security, taiwan, and other domestic issues as well. he didn't try to score any

political points last night. he took the high road. he was global statesman, but none of this goes anywhere until the republicans can put the house in order in the capitol. >> the question is, mika, are the republicans willing -- i know some are -- to let vladimir putin win in ukraine? i know some are. >> yeah. >> you listen to what they say. it could be coming out of russian television primetime. do they want israelis to fail in their effort to push back against the hamas terrorist group? we'll see. maybe they do. do they want fentanyl to flood in over the border when joe biden is -- wants to spend a lot of money to protect the border from that? also, they've asked for border security. we're talking about $14 billion

in border security on the southern border. i mean, do they want to vote against that as well? i mean, maybe they do. like i said, and maybe i overestimated them, and maybe not only can they not make a bowl of oatmeal -- >> not even instant. >> they would hurt themselves trying. >> yeah. oh, they would definitely get burned. >> keep the blender away from them. this is a group of people i've never seen such incompetence and confusion. that's why richard does make a good point which is the world is watching. they want to know, are we going to bow down to vladimir putin? are we going to bow down to hamas? are we going to retreat from the world? this is a very, very important question to be answered and right now it's the republican house of representatives that can't even answer that question because they can't elect a speaker. >> for most of them, their guy just got a bad piece of legal news out of georgia. which we'll get to.

as we have been discussing, we'll go live to capitol hill where republicans have plenty of loud voices, but no one to speak for the party in the house of representatives. the latest in the fight to fill one of the most important roles in washington when "morning joe" comes right back. hington when "" comes right back ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano.

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it looks like they're cracked. >> the kraken lady? >> i think the kraken lady cracked. >> yep. got a good deal. one of former president trump's staunchest allies has pleaded guilty in the georgia election interference case. we always said georgia was going to be a bit different. sidney powell who was a member of trump's legal team in his quest to overturn the 2020 election pleaded guilty yesterday to six misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with performance of election duties. those charges are mostly related to powell's part in breaching

voting equipment in a rural georgia county in january of 2021. as part of a plea deal, she was sentenced to six years of probation, and will have to pay $6,000 in fines, and nearly $3,000 in restitutions to the state of georgia. powell will have to turn over all documents related to the case and write an apology to the state's citizens. she has also agreed to testify against the remaining co-defendants in the case including trump and his former lawyer rudy giuliani. powell's sentence is significantly less severe than what she could have faced if found guilty during trial which was set to begin next week. powell who appeared in news conferences and spread mass election misinformation, was a frequent white house visitor after the 2020 election. so keep in mind, she was in there. she dealt directly with trump in

giuliani, with trump at one point considering naming her as special counsel to investigate alleged voter fraud. >> let's bring in former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg. chuck, many people believe it was a light sentence given -- given everything, but does that suggest that she actually has information that the georgia prosecutors really need? >> you know, quite possibly. i mean, to that point, joe, she avoided a felony, and she's going to avoid jail time. so, you know, i think in some ways it is a light sentence. does she have information that's going to be helpful to prosecutors? well, there's a couple of hurdles here, right? first, you have the information that's inadmissible. i would imagine certainly there's that. sengd, -- second, they have to make a determination she's credible on the stand. she's said a lot of crazy things and done a lot of crazy things. putting her on the stand means the jury will belief her and she

could withstand what would be logically a pretty difficult cross-examination, and then third, and i think this is a really important caveat. there is still a pending indictment in federal court in the district of colombia. she is an unindicted co-conspirator in that indictment. even if she wants to cooperate, she still has a fifth amendment issue. things that she says in georgia, if she testifies against others including mr. trump or mr. giuliani, could theoretically be used against her if federal prosecutors decide to charge her. i don't think that's insurmountable. i think that can be resolved, but prosecutors would have to address all of those things, relative to admissible information credible enough to put on the stand at trial and to withstand cross-examination, and then they would have to address her lingering fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. she could be a very important

witness, sure. >> chuck, as you read through these plea documents, sidney powell basically comes clean on everything. she said, i took all those actions with the purpose of willfully tampering that were tabulating votes and she tells the story effectively which tells you what kind of witness she could be. remind our viewers about what she could say about donald trump potentially given how close she was in those crazy couple of months after the election. >> yeah, willie. mika alluded to this, and she's exactly right. there was a raucous meeting in the white house on december 18th. sidney powell attended and at that meeting, the reports are it got fairly heated between normal lawyers and abnormal lawyers. a couple of ideas were floated including whether or not as mika said to name sidney powell as a special counsel to investigate election fraud. thank goodness that didn't happen. also talk about whether the

national guard should be deployed, in part, to help seize voting machines, whether the election, willie, ought to be rerun, and so, you know, why does that matter? because president trump was there, and the most important witnesses in any criminal case are those who have sat next to, talked with, heard from the defendant. >> yeah. >> and mr. trump is the defendant. so again, does she, could she have important information? absolutely. you still have to resolve that lingering fifth amendment issue, but i think mika nailed it in her opening. she has proximity to mr. trump so she could be a very important witness about mr. trump. >> and i mean, she's flipping. so chuck, the question that sort of hangs over this, or maybe the reality, clearly she would have faced some pretty difficult consequences if she was found

guilty, and clearly i mean, can you make the assumption given that she was right there in the from the ground up on election denying and election interference just from what we know so far and the amount of facetime she had with donald trump as she was brought in like that, that she knew that there were not a lot of options for her, that she has a lot to offer. is there an assumption that can be approached there, that she has good information to offer to prosecutors? >> maybe, and i'm sure they think, mika, hopefully. i mean, it's not unusual for people who have been charged with crimes to plead guilty. overwhelmingly that happens, and if they are lucky enough to have information that prosecutors think is valuable, then perhaps they can, you know, that's part of the bargain, that's part of the offer. that's what they can give prosecutors in response for here. the ability to plead to

misdemeanors rather than felonies and the ability to avoid jail time, two big things that sidney powell gets out of this deal assuming it all survives and goes through cleanly. looks like it has. that's pretty remarkable. if i can though, mika, it brings me to one thing that troubles me about what is happening in georgia, and maybe it's only because our practice in federal court is very different. mika, if you and joe robbed a bank and we charged you each with a felony and you wanted to plead guilty, then you would have to plead guilty to a felony. we don't engage by and large in the federal system in what is called charge bargaining, dropping a charge from a felony to a misdemeanor to induce a plea. >> right. >> georgia apparently does that, and maybe it's just my discomfort with that state system or the fact that i'm used to the federal system which that does not occur, but that is a big benefit to defendants who want to come forward and resolve their cases. i'm sure it's not lost on 17

other co-defendants who might realize -- >> right. >> -- i can get rid of a felony and get a misdemeanor? i can stay out of jail if i do what she did? we might see more of that happening. israel appears poised to launch a ground defensive into gaza. nbc's richard engel is straight ahead on "morning joe." c's rich ahead on "morning joe. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years.

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at the same time, president netanyahu and i discussed again yesterday the critical need for israel to operate by the laws of war. that means protects civilians in combat as best as they can. the people of gaza urgently need food, water, and medicine. as i said in israel, as hard as it is, we cannot give up on peace. we cannot give up on a two-state solution. israel and palestinians equally deserve to live in safety, dignity and peace. >> all right. richard haass, again, as i said,

a speech that drew widespread praise. i did note as you did that the president of the united states, a full supporter of israel still laid down three markers for israel's leaders last night. talk about that. >> absolutely. the first was on what israel's doing, and he basically said, don't make the same mistake we did after 9/11. essentially be smart. don't make foreign policy just with your heart. make it with your head, and that to me essentially was a marker. don't go in too big and don't stay for two long. then it was how israel did it and that was the reference to the laws of war, that you have to take all sorts of steps to make sure that civilians are not injured against the siege and so forth, and then lastly, whenever the dust settles, he put down a marker about the two-state solution, that ultimately there needs to be a political track.

absent the political track, the only game in town in terrorism. so if we don't want hamas to have a monopoly on promoting what's palestinian interest, we have to empower other palestinians with the hope that their legitimate political aspirations can be satisfy. three specific markers. what israel, how it does it, and what comes after. quite interesting. >> richard brought up a great point about the three markers the president laid down. we always talked about doing two things at once. last night he told israel, we're on your side. we're going to be with you as you fight this terrorist organization that raped and killed, tortured and burned israeli citizens, and at the same time, he said what, you know, the three mashers he laid down might be what david ignatius wrote in a column that israel needs to fight this war thinking about the day after. that's exactly what joe biden

said. he said, don't repeat our mistakes. limit casualties, and know that we're all moving toward a two-state solution. talk about how artfully that speech was crafted last night. so much so that even senior fox news contributors are saying it was a great speech. >> yeah. i think he really did an amazing job last night. he was in command. he was strong, and he took the moral high ground. he took the ground that america should be most comfortable with. that is we do have a stake around the world in democracies and standing up to thugs and bad guys, and torturers, and, you know, violent extremists. so here's the thing. he said out loud, two-state solution. that has not been -- those words have not come out of netanyahu's mouth in a long time, and i think that's the other thing he

did in this speech. he signaled very strongly to those in power in israel that we are not retreating from the goal of achieving peaceful coexistence of two states within -- encompassed within the territory of israel, that of the israelis and that of the palestinians. i think everyone they do as they try to wipe out hamas, and i think most americans are very supportive of that. everything they do, they also have to keep an eye on how do they influence the israeli government to get back to the table and get serious once again about a two-state solution? >> and claire, i'm so glad you said that because i mean, netanyahu has run away from that. u.s. leaders -- the trump administration didn't focus on that obviously, and it needs to be focused on again, and i say

this as a strong supporter of israel, mika. i've always said this. we need a two-state solution, not just for the palestinian people -- >> right. >> -- but also for the safety and long-term security of the israeli team. we can't do that with a terrorist organization next door like hamas. so i get it. you couldn't negotiate with hamas, but whoever replaces hamas, if it is a u.n./arab peacekeeping force, and there is leadership there, they need to work for a two-state solution there and in the west bank. >> so here's more of what president biden said last night, explaining really why supporting both israel and ukraine in their respective wars is critical to u.s. national security. >> i know these conflicts can seem far away. it's natural to ask, why does this matter to america? so let me share with you why making sure israel and ukraine

succeed is vital for america's national security. you know, history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death, and more destruction. they keep going, and the cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising, and if we walk away and let putin erase ukraine's independence, other groups around the world would be emboldened to try the same. the risk of conflict and chaos could spread in other parts of the world. in the indo-pacific, and the middle east, especially in the middle east. iran is supporting russia in ukraine, and it's supporting hamas and other terrorist groups in the region and we'll continue to hold them accountable, i might add. tonight, there are innocent people all over the world who hope because of us, who believe in a better life because of us, who are desperate not to be forgotten by us, and are waiting

for us, but time is of the essence. i know we have our divisions at home. we have to get past them. we can't let petty partisan, angry politics get in the way of our responsibility as a great nation. we cannot and will not let terrorists like hamas and tyrants like putin win. i refuse to let that happen. >> let's bring in now spokesperson for the israeli defense forces, major libby weiss. major weiss, thank you for being with us this morning. we've seen pictures this morning, live pictures of tanks massed at the border with gaza. i don't expect you to reveal your war plans on national television here, but are you fully expecting to go across the border sometime soon? >> well, we are awaiting the government's decision, be but of course, in the meantime, we're increasing our preparedness, and we of course, will be ready whenever the government makes their decision. >> are you confident, major,

that the civilians in northern gaza that you have now given several days to move south to clear out the area especially around gaza city, are you confident that those civilians have moved out of there to the extent that you're comfortable now to go in? >> well, first of all, we encourage those who have not left to do so. we know hamas is making it quite difficult for them to do that, and of course, this message to them has been out for several days because it is our hope that as many as possible are able to move to areas that will be safer that we have designated, but of course, we understand that hamas is making it very, very difficult for them to do that, horrifically so, in fact. >> major, good morning. can you give us an update please on where things stand with the corridor that's supposed to be opened up with egypt? there's a real security situation there. you guys are watching carefully at least as of a short time ago, it had not opened.

has your government received any information as to when it might? >> this is on the diplomatic level would have to be addressed. i don't know to give you the specifics on that. of course, we will facilitate whatever decision will be made by the government in terms of that corridor. >> major, it's richard haass. if you were to go in, what is your understanding of your definition of success, and if it's to eliminate hamas, who would then administer gaza? who would have the political authority of running day-to-day gaza? >> well, i'm speaking of course, from the military perspective. so i'm limited in the scope of a sort of larger, long-term plan that i could provide you simply because i don't know that that's a military issue, but from a military perspective, the goal here is to make sure that hamas no longer has any capacity to do what we saw that they did on october 7th, and that they continue to do since that massacre just about two weeks ago. so of course, that means making sure they no longer have the

military capacity that we saw, and they don't have the administrative capacity to do that either, and that's certainly what we will do and what the military focuses at this stage. >> so one element of your security situation is obviously to degrade hamas. what is israel doing to reconstitute its defenses in the south and west of the country? obviously they were much weaker than people thought. they were overrun. can you say something about what's going on inside israel to reduce israel's vulnerability to something like this ever happening again? >>. >> well, there's no doubt there will be long-term lessons that will be learned and those will be addressed at a later stage. right now there's been a very active call-up of more than 300,000 reservists who are of course, very much monitoring the situation along not only the southern border, but elsewhere. we are monitoring the situation closely as well at our northern border, and this is what the focus is really at this stage. >> major, there are fears that when this ground invasion happens, if it indeed does, the

attacks from the north will begin from hezbollah, another of course, iran-backed group. are you prepared for that circumstance and to defend israel to the north as well? >> well, we're monitoring the situation very, very closely. of course, we will be prepared to defend the country, but we do send a message and a question perhaps is a better way to say it, to lebanon which is to say, you know, is it in their interest to join hamas and what is taking place and to pay some price that will inevidently come as a result of that? i would hope their answer is no, but we will defend ourselves wherever we need to. >> finally, major, that explosion at the hospital inside gaza a couple of days ago. hamas blamed israel. our own reporting and that of the united states government shows that it was not, in fact, an israeli rocket, that it was likely an explosion from a hamas rocket. can you say definitively that that explosion at the hospital did not come from the israeli

defense forces? >> correct. it did not come from us. of course, the research that was done and then the vetting that was done on the u.s. side and by others clearly confirms that, and i think the rush to assume that it was us and to somehow take hamas' word is of course, very concerning and then unfortunate, and i don't know how we can trust the words of people who kidnapped babies and the elderly and of course, hamas will lie and has no issue to continue lying about this, but as was stated as well by the u.s., it was not israeli fire in any capacity that led to that. >> spokesperson for the israeli defense forces, major libby weiss, thank you for your time this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, our conversation with actress aubrey plaza who's making her stage debut in new york city. she'll talk about her off-broadway revival when "morning joe" comes right back. "morning joe" comes right back if we want a more viable future for our kids,

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a classic off-broad way play is making its return to the stage in new york this fall. "danny and the deep blue sea" first premiered back in 1984, starring john taturo and june stein. it tells the gut-wrenching story of troubled new yorkers who find love in a bronx dive bar and a newfound reason to escape their past. the play returns on november 13th for a ten-week run at the christopher abbott join us now. hi, aubrey. how are you? it's mika. >> how are you, mika? i'm good. >> of course we love you in everything you've done. obsessed. this is your first on stage

debut. how are you feeling about it? tell us about the play? >> yes, it's my stage debut. i'm feeling good. i'm feeling scared. we have like 12 days until previews, but i'm very happy i'm doing it with chris. he's a very experienced theater actor, so i feel like i'm in good hands. and the play is a real roller coaster ride. it's very intense love story and it's a classic. it's very exciting to kind of bring a classic back to audiences. >> chris, tell us about it for those who haven't seen it or know about it? >> it's sort of a fine line. it's comedic. it's heartbreaking. it's really just about human behavior and really specifically

about these two characters. you know, it's sort of a little microcosm of their universe. hopefully the audience feels like they're watching something that they shouldn't be watching. that's sort of our goal. >> the original run was an iconic thing. what sort of challenge or pressure is it for a revival like to make the story your own? >> luckily, i think the last time the show was done in new york, i hadn't moved to new york yet. so i haven't seen the show. i've never seen a production of the show. i'm appreciative of that at least, so i can have my own sort of spin on it. it's a play that in acting school back in the day a lot of people would work on because it's two characters and it's sort of an easy thing to work on. that's my experience as a viewer. i'm coming at it from a pretty

raw nucleus of a place. >> aubrey, what drew you to this? >> i love the characters. the writing is so juicy. two people meet in a bar in the bronx. they're italian. he wrote moonstruck. it has that energy. it's like we're fighting, but we love each other. it's fun. it's like an actor's dream play. every line is loaded, you know? >> it's theater. it's meant to be seen in a theater. >> you have a great writer. he wrote nicholas cage in "moonstruck." you have john turturo. >> it's the hair. that's what got me the role.

>> there's a lot of damaged, broken people there's a juicy pulpy quality to this makes it fun and is also a little bit unnerving. it's not a traditional romance. >> it's not, no. it's a love story with two very damaged people. i think the "new york times" described it as almost like a boxing match, like two fighters in their corners and they're going at it. you know, are they going to kill each other? are they going to sleep together? what are they going to do? >> you guys are essentially typecast here. you guys were in a movie together we're not allowed to talk about -- >> we were in a movie. >> which was brilliant. this quote, this is yours, chris. we're unafraid to be ugly, weird and strange.

demonstrate a little bit for us what ugly, weird and strange looks like in the play. >> you said we were typecast. i want to clear something up. i think some people take the ugly thing as being a physical -- i'm not saying that aubrey and i are ugly. i mean ugly from the inside. see? she's got it. >> i'm still waiting to get a sense of what that looks like on the stage between the two of you. just a little improv here. >> just slap me. >> i'm going to do a choice of my character where her arms kind of. >> again. >> without the fingers, you know. >> this is good for "morning joe." >> you wonder why the internet loves aubrey plaza. she's very memable. >> thank you both for being here. "danny and the deep blue sea"

opens for previews october 30th and premiers november 13th at the lucille lortell theater. thank you for joining us. please don't hit him anymore. >> you told me to do it. more >> you told me to do it.

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american values are what make us a partner other nations want to work with. to put all that at risk, if we walk away from ukraine, if we turn our backs on israel, it's just not worth it. >> president biden in a prime time address last night explaining to americans why supporting both israel and ukraine matters. >> a lot of support for that speech last night.

you have israeli troops amassing on the border with gaza ahead of a widely expected ground invasion later, perhaps today, perhaps this weekend. on the biden speech, you heard from obviously a lot of democrats and also some republicans, people who don't usually support the president, saying that he made the speech that he had to make. the republicans, of course, you have isolationists on the far right. it's the josh hawley, charles lindbergh america first appeasement part of the party. then on the far left, you have a lot of people who are also isolationists. some are just outright anti-israel. so you have these forces pulling.

he really aligned himself with more of a ronald reagan, jfk, more of an internationalist view of the world, not isolationist, but a view of the world that if america lets tyrants take over countries, if he lets terrorists determine the fate of the middle east, then america will pay a terrible price. >> a very strong few days for the president and this speech. he definitely was very much in the moment. let's go right to senior white house correspondent gabe gutierrez with more on the president's oval office address. >> reporter: good morning. in just his second formal oval office address, the president trying to link the wars in israel and ukraine, pleading with americans to be a beacon to the world. the urgent speech comes just hours after the pentagon says a u.s. warship shot down missiles potentially headed towards

israel. faing escalated wars in israel and ukraine, a solemn president biden in a rare oval office address, making a direct appeal to the american people in prime time. >> i know these conflicts can seem far away. it's natural to ask, why does this matter to america? >> reporter: the president arguing that helping israel in its fight against hamas and ukraine in its war against russia is vital to u.s. national security. >> hamas and putin represent different threats but they both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy. >> reporter: today the president is sending congress a requester for $100 billion in military and humanitarian support largely for ukraine and israel, but congress is paralyzed with no house speaker. so it's not clear when lawmakers will be able to approve the money. >> we can't let petty partisan politics get in the way of our responsibilities as a great nation. we cannot let tyrants win. i refuse to let that happen.

>> reporter: the address coming hours after the president's trip to israel and amid growing outrage across the arab world after that deadly hospital blast in gaza. >> i'm heartbroken by the tragic loss of palestinian life, including the explosion at the hospital in gaza, which was not done by the israelis. we mourn every innocent life lost. >> reporter: the biden administration scrambling to prevent a wider war in the region, the u.s. for the first time shooting down missiles and drones the pentagon says were fired from yemen. syrian militias have also targeted american troops this week in iraq and syria, while hezbollah has intensified attacks on israeli troops from lebanon. >> history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and destruction. >> reporter: we've just learned from a senior defense official

that there was a rocket attack on u.s. forces stationed in baghdad around the time of the president's speech, two rockets fired, one was intercepted, the other hit an empty storage facility. no casualties. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you very much. let's bring in nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, live from the west bank. richard. >> reporter: so there have been more clashes here today. they have been relatively small, but there was a protest in this city, which is a palestinian-run city on the west bank, in favor of hamas. people were saying hamas' military wing should carry out more strikes. it was in solidarity with hamas and with the people in the gaza strip. a new development this morning from the israeli military. it made an announcement saying it believes, according to its assessment, we know ongoing conversations between u.s. and israeli allies with hamas are

under way to try and free the hostages. according to israeli information, most of the 200 hostages are still alive and in gaza. according to this statement from the israeli military, there are about 20 of them who are under the age of 18 and ten to 20 over 60. i think it's also important to focus on what gabe was just talking about. this war is already starting to expand beyond the gaza strip. when president biden came here, showed solidarity with israel, it was clear that israel has friends, has a powerful friend, has a powerful friend in the united states, in this administration and in the u.s. military. now it seems that hamas is showing that it has friends and iran is starting to activate its allies and proxies across the region from the houthis in iran to shia militias in iraq and syria, hezbollah in the north.

so both sides have their allies. the united states has mobilized. and it seems like iran is mobilizing now through its proxies. >> richard, gauge for us, if you can from what you're seeing on the ground, what you've been hearing while talking to sources and reporting, the level of tension in the west bank. >> reporter: the level of tension in the west bank is high. there is a sense here that things could escalate dramatically within hours if the israeli troops or perhaps when israeli troops go into the gaza strip. these are angry, threatening demonstrations, telling the world and the palestinian people that hamas should keep going. but if the israeli troops cross that rubicon, go into gaza, we could see things dramatically escalate here and absolutely escalate in lebanon. i think the one place to watch

really is lebanon. so far we have not heard from the leader of hezbollah. we've heard from other lower level officials. if we start to see the leader on television making a speech, i think it means we are entering into a new phase. all of this is to say we are at a waiting moment where tension is building here and all around israel, where probing attacks from iran's proxies are starting to again. the sense is that if the go order comes and comes potentially soon for israeli troops to go into gaza, that these probing attacks could escalate and these clashes, which are still relatively minor here in the west bank, more severe in the northern west bank yesterday where a number of palestinians were killed, that it could go into a much more intense level. >> richard, we've been talking about how the focus in israel

certainly politically has been more on the west bank than gaza over the past several years. benjamin netanyahu pushing and encouraging new settlements that move into palestinian areas and obviously some americans have moved to the west bank and been in some of those settlements. i'm curious, is there a heightened concern for not only those americans, but others? i know russian immigrants and others that have moved into these settlements. is there a grave concern that these settlers could be endangered as well? >> reporter: well, i think for the settlers who have come to live in the west bank, there's an israeli settlement not far from this position where we are right now. that is why there are israeli troops here to both keep palestinians in the west bank and to protect the settlers behind them. they are always at a degree of

risk. if things escalate, yes, certainly those communities would be even more at risk. going back to what you were saying, one of the reasons people here believe that we have come to this level in the middle east where there's anger across the arab world, where hamas felt not only emboldened but empowered enough and was able to carry out strikes in israel is because the israeli focus has been up here in the west bank. the government netanyahu has put together is very much in favor of the settlers. a lot of troops have been deployed up in this area to protect the settlers. if you speak to the israelis, many will say that israel took its eye off the ball in the south. it stopped focusing on gaza. it believed the situation there was contained by the security fences and remote controlled machine guns and observation towers that had been set up and are still set up all around

gaza. a lot of forces under netanyahu came here to protect those settlers, and now gaza, hamas was able to stockpile weapons and carry out its attack. that's why israel is focusing now on gaza to dismantle hamas. an israeli spokesman said today that before the operation that the main focus of the mission now in carrying out air strikes in gaza is to eliminate hamas leaders. it announced the killing of another hamas leader this morning. >> richard engel, thank you very much. >> thank you so much, richard. richard, of course, reporting from the west bank. greatly appreciate it. please do your best to stay safe. >> susan glasser, claire mccaskill and jonathan lemire are with us.

>> let's talk about the internationally most fraught week or two of biden's presidency, right? >> i can't remember another week in particular like this one for an american president, literally flying not only into an active war zone without a real american military presence for only the second time, the first time being earlier this year when president biden went to kyiv. but the uncertainty, having a summit with the arabs scheduled, then cancelled at the last minute, the sort of fog of misinformation, bad information about the gaza hospital attack, there's a sense of metastasizing conflict coming to us. actually, the president's speech last night, i thought kind of put it together and connected the dots between what's happening to ukraine with the russian invasion and who russia's partners are in the

middle east, iran, bad actors like syria, who are sponsoring hamas and hezbollah. there's a real sense a grim prognosis i heard from the president's trip. >> claire, certainly the president, the early sense from the white house this morning is they feel like he did his job. he hit his marks last night making the case to the american people why these two distant war zones matter here at home and impact our national security. certainly right now israel has almost 100% support from congress. we have seen, though, ukraine has changed. it's been a year and a half now, this conflict. on the whole, still bipartisan backing. there are more republican voices that have grown louder questioning whether or not we should keep sending aid to

ukraine. polls suggest american voters are beginning to have doubts too. do you think the president accomplished that part, the ukraine part last night? >> i think he understood when he was writing the speech and delivering the speech that this was a two-step speech. it was not just israel. it was also ukraine. he emphasized ukraine in the ways i think most americans can relate to. i don't understand why the republican party has fallen in love with putin. what is it about putin that they admire? it certainly is not his respect for democracy or freedom or freedom of speech. it certainly isn't his track record on human rights. what is it about him, other than the fact that trump liked him? so it is bizarre to me that they have put out disinformation on social media that somehow

ukraine is sending arms to hamas, which is just ridiculous. that's getting pushed out there probably by russian sources, i would guess, or idiots who think putin is a great guy. i do think biden in a very sober way said, hey, listen, these two are very much related. if you want to support israel, it makes all the sense in the world for you to support ukraine in defending their democracy also. >> joining us now, democratic congresswoman mikey cheryl of new jersey. it seems like this would be kind of an important time to have a functioning congress. >> yes, mika, it certainly is an important time. as we look at the people that the house republicans are putting forward, people like jim jordan, the founder of the freedom caucus, someone who even this morning has been an

election denier, who hasn't passed a piece of legislation in 17 years, it does seem as though they're not taking this moment as seriously as they need to. it also seems as if the only path forward here is a bipartisan solution. >> we certainly know your position aligns with the president's position when we talk about ukraine or israel and the pushing back against tyrants and terrorists. there are also obviously a lot of your colleagues in the republican party like chairman mccaul that would agree with that position as well. i'm wondering have you had any conversations with your republican colleagues who want to see israel supported in this time of need against terrorists and want to see the ukrainians supported in this critical time in pushing back russian tyranny?

>> i have. i think we've seen strong support also from republicans in the senate. this has wide agreement despite the far-right extremists falling away and being inexplicably more supportive of putin for some reason. what was so masterful about the president's speech last night was that he tied the global consequences of not supporting ukraine, delineated how if you are a strong supporter of israel, you need to be a strong supporter of ukraine. if you are a strong supporter of democracy, you need to be a supporter of our efforts in both of those fronts. i thought as well what he said that was so important was also a desire to do so along with american values, our belief in humanitarian aid for gaza as well as our concern here at home that we make sure we are doing everything we can to protect

americans against anti-semitism, against islamaphobia. he talked about the little boy who was killed in a hate crime and said these are americans, we're together in this, we're together. >> yeah. congresswoman, you're a member of the house select committee on china. a new report from the pentagon says china is exceeding previous projections of how quickly it is building up its nuclear arsenal. the department of defense believes china had more than 500 nuclear warheads in its arsenal as of may. that's roughly 100 more than last year. it also estimates china will likely double that to 1,000 nuclear warheads by 2030. the country began intensifying its nuclear weapons program three years ago. >> how does this play into the

much bigger picture where you actually have president xi and vladimir putin meeting, you have the foreign minister of russia lavrov meeting with kim jong-un this week, you have iran meeting with hamas this week. it seems that the challenges facing the united states globally continue to grow. as i look at kim jong-un there, i remember barack obama telling donald trump before he became president, you know, what's going to be keeping you awake at night is going to be kim jong-un and north korean nuclear weapons and their program. obviously that didn't keep donald trump up late at night. he wrote what he called, quote, love letters to kim jong-un. he continues to get more dangerous. can america respond in a bipartisan way to these

challenges? >> i think here's the thing. we have to, because we can either allow the roll back of liberal democracy across the world and even some attacks on our democratic institutions here at home, or we could come together as a nation and support democracies across the world and put up support for democracy here at home. this is something that nobody wants to enter into these conflicts, but when it comes to whether or not you support democracy or you allow surveillance architecture, you allow people to be thrown into prison for disagreeing with their government, you allow the really overwhelming push for autocracy across the world, you really have to dig deep and decide is this what you want for yourself and your family and

your children. >> mike key cheryl of new jersey, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. senator claire mccaskill, feel free to respond to anything you heard from the congresswoman. i know you have a question for susan glasser as well. >> susan, i'm really curious about your take on where are the voices from europe vis-a-vis israel? it's been a deafening silence. we really haven't heard japan speak out. we haven't heard south korea speak out. we haven't heard any of the european countries express strong support for israel. what's going on politically in these countries that have silenced some of our best friends and allies across the globe? >> this is a really interesting question, senator. first of all, there was a visit by the german chancellor to

israel just the day before president biden. it caught my eye because it was such a remarkable moment. his airplane came onto the tarmac at the exact moment there was an air raid going off, missiles being fired toward tel aviv, i believe. he was evacuated from the plane. his delegation was shown lying flat on the ground at the airport in israel. you know, there have been some signs of support and there have been some other visits by leaders to israel not just president biden. i think your observation is broadly speaking correct, because this crisis doesn't come out of nowhere. it comes after years of, i would say, increasing kind of polarization around the subject of israel especially but not exclusively in europe.

this is true on american campuses as well. a real concern that israel's hard-right policies toward the palestinians had alienated many supporters of israel and that's the political situation that israel is facing right now, a sense that years and years of not listening to many of its friends when it came to pursuing really divisive policies with toward the question of the palestinians that netanyahu didn't want to listen, that he chose to pursue a policy of pretending that it was under control, not listening to those who say israel was at risk of becoming an apartheid state. that's one of the reasons those who are friendly voices are not speaking up as loudly on behalf of israel as many in the united states would want them to. >> susan glasser, thank you very much for your insights this morning. coming up on "morning joe," it appears the kraken is

flipping on donald trump. we'll go through sidney powell's guilty plea in the georgia election interference case and get legal analysis on what it means for the former president. means for the former president

♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it's 9:27 on the east coast, 6:27 on the west coast. you're looking at a cloudy shot of atlanta, georgia, kind of rainy there. obviously a lot happening in atlanta right now with the former president and a case against him for election interference. >> this is one of the big ones. a former member of donald trump's legal team is taking a plea deal in the georgia

election interference case. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more on the surprise move from sidney powell. >> reporter: this morning, one of donald trump's fiercest defenders, now a likely witness against him in georgia. >> how do you plead to the six counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with election duties? >> guilty. >> reporter: sidney powell sitting in court thursday admitting to her role in trying to overturn the 2020 election results, becoming the second person to plead guilty in the sprawling case against the former president and more than a dozen others. >> here to testify truthfully against any and all codefendants in this matter in any upcoming proceedings. >> reporter: that testimony potentially explosive as court documents outline key dates powell met with mr. trump as a member of his legal team, including a december 2020 showdown in the oval office where he weighed seizing voting

machines. prosecutors say the former president floated naming her as the special counsel to investigate voter fraud even as congressional testimony reveals he privately dismissed her election fraud claims as, quote, crazy. >> what we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through venezuela, cuba and likely china. >> reporter: powell routinely pushing such wild conspiracy theories about the election on tv. >> i'm going to release the kraken. >> reporter: she didn't. instead, admitting in open court she helped orchestrate a brazen breach of voting equipment in coffee county after the election, forced to apologize to georgia and hand over documents as part of her plea deal. >> you don't get six years probation and no jail time because you don't have good information. >> yeah. i'm thinking there's something

valuable there. >> there is something very valuable there. it's very interesting. she did have access to donald trump. this is also, remember, who ginni thomas was also pushing very hard for donald trump to hire, to investigate this. just the craziest, most detached from reality conspiracy theories, which of course led ginni thomas to also write texts and e-mails saying that the biden, quote, crime family should be put on barges outside of gitmo. again, we have to go back and remember how crazed these people were, how dangerous they were to american democracy and how they were trying to overthrow american democracy. so this is a significant plea deal. >> very. >> but the question is, what is she going to bring to the prosecutor's case. >> and ginni thomas you

mentioned, the wife of a supreme court justice. just adding that in. joining us now, former watergate prosecutor jill winebanks and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg is with us as well. >> i'd love to hear your take on the decision yesterday, the plea decision by sidney powell. >> and the leniency. >> yes, the leniency of what deal they ultimately gave to her. >> first of all, i think that it was expected. i don't think it's a surprise. the first person who pled guilty in this case was involved in her exact subplot of the overall conspiracy, which was the coffee county breach. she knew that he would be testifying against her and that she was done for. this is a very favorable

outcome. it means no felony, no jail. it does mean testimony that has to be truthful, or she loses it all. so you don't get a six-year probation and a really pretty small fine unless the government believes that you have significant testimony. she met directly with donald trump. she was in the oval office. so she can really link this crime directly to donald trump. that is important. that's why she got a good deal. >> i think it's worth underscoring how much access sidney powell had in december and january 2021 when so much of the west wing staff had quit. trump suggested at one point sidney powell could be appointed

special counsel to look into election fraud. tough day for the kraken, but potentially an even tougher one for donald trump and some of his other coconspirators in georgia. there is the belief that sidney powell would cooperate and she's got the goods on them. this could also help the federal case. could she turn cooperator for jack smith as well? >> i think jack smith has sidney powell boxed in. she's an unindicted coconspirator in d.c. anything she says in the georgia case can be used against her in d.c. she's in a lot of trouble. i think it's inevitable she will cooperate with jack smith because she fears prison if she doesn't. it's ironic that the woman donald trump wanted as his special counsel to oversee election fraud is going to perhaps be a key witness for the

special counsel jack smith. i'm sure she tried to cut a universal deal with the feds so she wouldn't be exposed to jack smith in this, but jack smith probably wanted her to plead to a felony. she may not have wanted to do so, but now that she's committed to this georgia deal and trials are starting, her leverage has decreased. the longer she waits to cut a deal with jack smith, the worse her deal will be and the more likely she'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit in washington, d.c. >> jill, let's talk a little bit about the federal case. trump has now been accused of criminal behavior before his presidency, during his presidency and after his presidency depending on the jurisdiction and which charges you're looking at. i know he's been trying to make these bogus arguments about some kind of privilege he's entitled

to or some kind of immunity he's entitled to. can you speak to that and explain why this is all phony window dressing over some very serious conduct? >> i'm so glad you asked that question. since watergate, i have believed the office of legal counsel opinion that says there's immunity during the presidency is wrong. but there's never ever been any decision that said after the presidency you don't have to face consequences for criminal conduct in office. and this is not even arguably within the ambit of presidential authority to try to take down an election result, which he did as a candidate, not as president. even if you go back to watergate, richard nixon was pardoned for crimes by his successor gerald ford. and if he couldn't be held liable for them, why would he

admit guilty and accept a pardon? so it's clear to me that no one, including the president or former president, is above the law, and the argument he was making for immunity is ridiculous. the special counsel just filed its opposition in a very lengthy, well-documented, well-cited with many cases as to why the former president does not have immunity. i believe that will be the holding and that his case asking for immunity will be thrown out, as it should be. >> so david aronberg, jumping into another case, the new york attorney general leticia james made some communities about trump overblowing the size of his assets. she seems very confident and mentioned that donald trump will be coming back next week because of michael cohen's testimony. he doesn't have to be there.

and yet there were reports that he was kind of loud in court. this one seems to be getting to him. what of all the cases are you watching for something to break sooner rather than later? >> mika, this really gets to him, because his identity is combined with his business. the judge says mar-a-lago is only worth 18 and $28 million. that gets him right to the core. of course, it wasn't the judge who came up with that figure. it was the property appraiser here in palm beach county. who supported that figure but donald trump? as shakespeare says he's hoisted by his own petard. he artificially lowered the value for tax purposes of his properties and inflated them for purpose of bank loans and insurance policies. the case that could cause the most damage to donald trump is the documents case at mar-a-lago, the one that's right here in south florida. now, i think donald trump got lucky because judge cannon has

been very favorable to him. it looks like the timing of that case is going to get pushed out past the 2024 election. but trump has no defense there. they've got him dead to rights. the only way trump escapes a conviction there is if he could become president and order his doj to drop everything. >> state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg and former watergate prosecutor jill wine banks, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," how a group of anonymous online detectives are helping to track down january 6th insurrectionists and bring them to justice. plus, less than 30 minutes from now, congressman jim jordan is expected to try for a third time to win the speaker's before we go to break, a note on some of the great content we have going on know

your value dotcom including an interesting look at the country music industry. studies show male artists still dominate the genre's air play but one breakout star is changing that. morgan myles is using her platform to take on gender inequity in the industry. take a listen. >> we absolutely have to fight the good fight to have our voices heard. one of the biggest reasons why women in country music had such a hard time was at one point about ten years ago they basically said women don't want to listen to women. so more than anything, i want to make music that brings women together to spoert one another. we have to continue. i think we had a movement that was really in front of the news and it seems like it's trickled

off again. we've got to continue to support one another. more importantly, women have to support women. >> you have to hear her sing. you could see my interview and hear her sing at know your value dotcom. er sing at know your vale dotcom

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new details are emerging about a misstep by the fbi in the aftermath of january 6th. during an investigation over who planted pipe bombs at the rnc and dnc headquarters on the night before the january 6th attacks, agents mistakenly questioned a biden staffer, who happens to share the same name as one of the known insurrectionists at the capitol. that's one of the pieces of information of new reporting from the new book entitled "sedition hunters, how january

6th broke the justice system" which outlines how law enforcement was so overwhelmed they came to rely on online sleuths to catch january 6th rioters. joining us now is the author of that book ryan riley. thank you for writing this. tell us more about this group of people. >> yeah. it's really a diverse group of people who are ultimately driving a lot of these investigations and working really hard and are really ahead of the fbi. that was really surprising for me. i was talking to these people who are just very far ahead of the fbi. the fbi has this hollywood reputation of being really sophisticated. you think of it as enhanced. they're on a computer, zooming in, making that picture better and they have these great databases. that's not the reality of the fbi. they're a really big bureaucracy

that struggle to keep up with online sleuths. they missed all the signs on social media that we saw out there of how this was all coming together for january 6th. >> give us more examples of the types of valuable information or links they've been able to contribute. >> one thing is nicknames. the fbi usually puts out nicknames for bank robbers. that drives a lot of media attention. but they're not really doing that in the case of january 6th. they're just adding new people to the list. i can't write a story, for example, about the 537th person added to this fbi page. if the fbi gave them a funny nickname, that's a story that gets attention. instead they're dumping it onto this page, giving it a number. they're not even saying what the individual did or what they're wanted.

a boyfriend who was standing inside of this individual suspect was standing inside of a store and his friend showed him his phone and said look at this crazy thing the fbi tweeted out. the guy was like, hey, that's my ex-girlfriend. he ended upturning her in. these nicknames are important. one of my favorite nicknames of someone recently was conan o'riot. >> talk to us about the other part of this, how the justice department was so challenged and frankly overwhelmed by the sheer size of this investigation, the sheer number of suspects. >> this would have been overwhelming for even an organization that wasn't as scatter shot and divided across

the country. you have these field offices. they were kind of their own little fever doms to an extent. even the communication systems along that the sleuths were able to use. they're using platforms similar to slack and those group chats where you can organize things very easily. that's not how the fbi is organized. they're really structured and hierarchical. you're going into this bureaucracy that's really behind the times that doesn't have the best technology available and you're not going to be making the amount of money that you could be, also you can't smoke weed. that's a part of this too. they've relaxed their rules inside the fbi for that a little bit. still, if you want to apply to

the fbi, you have to give up marijuana for at least a year before you sign up. >> the new book is entitled "sedition hunters, how january 6th broke the justice system." ryan reilly, thank you very much. congratulations on the book. we'll be right back with the latest reporting from capitol hill where just minutes from now another vote for speaker will happen maybe and we'll see if maybe the third time will be the charm. doubt it. we'll be right back. l be the charm. doubt it we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing]

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is your treatment leaving you with uncontrolled symptoms? like the cover-it-ups and brush-it-offs? enough with good enoughs. don't stay hiding or hurting. when your lotions and creams don't do enough to we're jumping back in. let's go straight to capitol hill. this is the minority leader ha keep jeffries. let's listen in. >> doesn't believe president biden was elected in 2020. that's disrespectful to the american people. jim jordan wants to impose a nationwide abortion ban, and he is the the poster child for maga extremism. we are saying to our traditional republican colleagues, good men and women on the other side of the aisle, in the attachment to the extremist jim jordan and join with democrats in finding a

bipartisan path forward. >> leader jeffries, is your understanding at this point -- >> katherine clark. >> we are 17 days in to a choice by the majority of chaos, a choice to reject coming together and putting the people of this great country over their civil war, their partisan bickering and movement to extremism. this is a choice by the majority, and we are reemphasizing what our caucus and leader has been saying for the past two weeks. come together. you are weakening our country. you are weakening this institution. you are ignoring the work of the american people. the time is now. choose a bipartisan path forward. >> pete aguilar. >> jim jordan has failed at every vote, and he's going to

continue to fail. house democrats are united behind leader jeffries. we want a path forward. we want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to meet the needs of the american public. two objectives this week for house democrats, one is to make sure that jim jordan does not get close to the speaker's chair and the second is to reopen the house of representatives. we still have work to do, but we're going to do it. we're going to do it together. we're going to advocate for a bipartisan path forward and continue that discussion until we open up the chamber. >> leader jeffries, it seems like a bipartisan path forward is what you're talking about, but in our conversations with republicans, it sounds dead. what makes you think there's a reason for it to be revived? >> well, there are still reasonable republicans over on the other side of the aisle as i've repeatedly said, good men and women who wanted house reopened, who want the congress to function, and what we've said is we just want a house that allows for bipartisan bills that benefit the american people, not democrats or republicans, the

american people. we want a house that allows for bipartisan bills to receive up or down votes that will receive the majority of members on both sides of the aisle but are being blocked right now by the extremists. >> you would have all of your people here this weekend to continue to block mr. jordan that you have enough votes every single roll call vote this weekend? >> we recognize that jim jordan is a clear and present danger to the american people, and we are going to be here for as long as it takes to end this national nightmare. >> any moderate republicans who would be willing to partner with you on a speaker candidate? >> that's a question you should ask them. >> at this point would you ever vote for patrick mchenry on the floor? >> i've said repeatedly that there are many republicans on the other side of the aisle who we believe are good americans, good patriots, good men and women. patrick mchenry is one of them, there are others. >> sir, have you spoken directly

with any of your republican colleagues about a bipartisan -- >> i haven't spoken directly with patrick mchenry. >> what do you say to those who believe democrats are to blame for this situation, since y'all voted with those eight republicans to oust mccarthy. >> elect a speak who can get to 218 votes and to sustain a speaker at 218 votes. that is the job of the majority. from the very beginning of the republic going back to 1789, and by the way, who created jim jordan? who normalized jim jordan? who is about to nominate -- who is about to nominate jim jordan, that's clear. >> and are you okay if they were to go ahead and elect a speaker

pro tem as they did in the early '60s after speaker ray burns of the house could operate? that's what you're saying here, that type of option is on the table -- >> what we're saying is that all options are on the table to get the house back open so we can do the business of the american people. >> is mchenry the only name that's in that conversation? >> no. >> who are the other names that you're -- is it steve womack? are there other names? can we just kind of get into detail? >> i think you've got to ask the other side of the aisle who they're willing to put forward. >> we have been. >> if every democrat went to the floor and they voted for a republican today, you could probably find a handful of republicans who would join you organically in that moment. would you take that step today? >> voted for a republican to be speaker of the house? >> yes. >> we'd have to have a real conversation about what that would look like? >> is that a challenge -- obviously there are some on your side who have such antipathy for republicans that they could -- >> let's be clear. we have said repeatedly for the last two weeks we are ready,

able and willing to find a bipartisan path forward to enter into a partnership with our republican colleagues, to reopen the house, to solve problems for hardworking american taxpayers. we just need some traditional republicans to join us, instead of rejecting bipartisanship, they need to stop embracing extremism. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> is there any scenario where you think you could -- >> all right. house majority leader, house minority leader hakeem jeffries making it very clear, first of all, leaving the door open for some sort of bipartisan solution to this speaker issue, jonathan lemire saying jim jordan is a clear and present danger to the american people. we also had the house minority whip katherine clark speaking and chair of the house democratic caucus pete aguilar, and they are united in trying compel republicans to get the house back going again.

since this has never happened before, i can't ask you if this is a sign that maybe jim jordan has the votes. it sounds like he still doesn't, but they would like to make it clear that they're not the problem. >> yeah, no question, and by our count, jordan does still not have the votes, ali vitali, and i think part of why hakeem jeffreys and the other democrat were so forceful, jordan was asked who won the 2020 election and he refused to say joe biden. his election denialism continues. what should we expect today? >> it's not surprising to see democrats united here. what is surprising is to see hakeem jeffries and the rest of his leadership team continuing to sound notes of optimism and openness to the idea of some kind of bipartisan consensus solution. i think it's important to point out specifics of what hakeem jeffries said. i asked him is patrick mchenry the pro tem, the only name who's

currently in the mix. he said that's not the only name and i do think that's notable. he didn't give any other names specifically, but i do think that there are other names that are in the mix on this. mchenry is certainly not the only one, but i think it's also important to listen when democrats say they had two goals here, the first was to make sure that someone like jim jordan who continues to say there were problems when there were none with the 2020 election results, that he did not become speaker and then trying to move on to something that could allow the house, to, a, function and, b, function in somewhat bipartisan fashion. that's notable, but doesn't mean it's any closer to happening. >> nbc's ali vitali, good job getting those questions in. we appreciate it. our coverage continues right now with ana cabrera and josé diaz-balart. right now on special coverage, the house back in session in moments preparing to hold a third vote for house speaker. jim jordan made a last ditch effort today trying to convince his party