nobody gave it from the current leadership. on the other hand, the israeli public service the israeli leadershi -- the leadership and much of the public see an end game here only with a ground invasion. it will end with the settlement of the hamas regime and military capabilities, and i think that the israeli public very much unite, and i spoke with many of the reservists along the border where i spent much of the day, and they all see the same. going in, otherwise, if not taking the hamas regime, then israeli enemies will see this as a sign of weakness. the next thing we'll see another enemy doing the same. >> we're going to have to leave it there, ronen bergman, thank you, barry mccaffrey and graham wood, and that does it for us. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪♪

good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. desperation and danger growing as critical aid remains stuck at the egypt, gaza border. a live report from cairo as humanitarian workers warn that the main hospital on the strip won't have electricity for much longer. at this minute, house republicans just started huddling behind closed doors after a short time ago, jim jordan failed for a third time to lockdown the votes to be speaker. in fact, he actually lost support between the second and third rounds, and to say frustration is building in the republican conference is a bit of an understatement. >> i'm really recommending against this flurry of new votes when the votes are absolutely not changing. that is a fact you can take to the grave. >> everyone wants to stay here l

reflect and go back to the days we've had over the last two weeks and say we did it to ourselves, folks. >> we did it to ourselves. and then breaking, in just the last half an hour, an extraordinary and highly significant move by one of donald trump's georgia co-defendants, kenneth chesebro as jury selection was already underway, striking a deal with prosecutors. what this new twist could mean for the former president. and that is where we begin with kenneth chesebro, the third trump co-defendant in the georgia election case who has switched his play now saying he is guilty, but this is significant. he is the first to plead guilty to a felony, a dramatic about-face for him and he will testify. >> how do you plead to count 15, conspiracy to commit filing false documents in indictment number 23 sc 188947? >> guilty.

this deal is that chesebro faces a much lighter sentence, no prison, instead five years probation in return for his cooperation, but the significance, again, of this moment and what it might mean for the former president cannot be overstated. joining me now, msnbc anchor, katie phang with the latest from the fulton county courthouse, former u.s. attorney, university of michigan law professor, and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade, and nbc's laura jarrett with an update from the trump organization fraud case in new york. katie, let's start where you are. walk us through exactly what happened here. >> yeah, so 450 prospective jurors ended up at the courthouse to do nothing other than fill out preliminary questions. kenneth kmeezboro, the architect of the fake elector scheme that provided the blueprints for several fake electors slates in states across the united states pleaded guilty was this was another 11th hour surprise guilty plea, although many of us expected maybe something to

happen because kenneth chesebro and one of his defense attorneys were noticeably absent from the courtroom when a lot of the activity was going on, and then when, you know, around lunchtime they come back in and there's a little bit of flurry of activity because all ten members of fani willis's trial team ended up inside the courtroom and that's when the guilty plea was announced. the terms of this guilty plea were consistent with the other guilty pleas we've seen so far from scott hall, the georgia bail bondsman to sidney powell. as you noted, it's the first plea to a felony so far of these 19 co-defendants, and the other thing that i'll note, chris, is that all of them have to provide truthful testimony, and like dominos that are falling with scott hall to sidney powell, to kenneth chesebro, let's see whether or not any of the remaining 16 are going toake a plea, but notably judge mcafee was waiting for thesebro powell trial to conclude before providing a trial date for former president donald trump and the remaining 16 co-defendants. so now that there's no trial, i

anticipate a case management conference very soon where that trial date gets set. >> all right, barbara, tell us just how big of a deal is this? >> this is enormous. first, chris, it's because kenneth chesebro has pleaded guilty. that's one fewer -- second is cooperation, which will be enormously important. he was the architect of the fake -- about that and about that scheme, he could certainly be very -- he's been also -- donald trump. but third, there's they were going to have to try this case twice, where all the other defendants would get a pretty view of the evidence. now that this case is off the table they will not have to do this trial twice, they can focus on the remaining defendants, and my guess as katie said, the dominos are starting to fall. this may not be the last domino fall. it may be that we end up --

>> so katie, i guess the question that i have is when you talk about dominos falling,it's also a question of do they need another domino to fall? they have sidney powell who was essentially the face of this case, right, in a pro-donald trump sense. she was all over television, conservative television, and now you have the person who as you rightly point out was at the center of this case, so tell us what happens next, what you see going on here. >> the question's really good from you, chris. it's do you need them versus do you want them? and i think as a former prosecutor, if you still have this many defendants left, the answer is yes. you want to stack the deck against those that are foolish enough not to take a guilty plea and proceed to a trial, even though it is, of course, your constitutional right to go to a jury trial in any state in the united states. in this instance, we skipped a lot of the rungs in the ladder, right? scott hall the georgia bail

bondsman at the lower rung in the ladder of the important food chain. we skipped a lot of rungs when we got to sidney powell. i think you're going to see more plays from the people involved in coffee county. remember, this was a huge conspiracy net across the united states, but i'd like to look at it in buckets. you've got the coffee county bucket, for example, the breach of the lex equipment, and the voting equipment there. that was a sidney powell, scott hall and others event. and then you'll also see what happened with the intimidation tactics, with ruby freeman and shaye moss. i expect you're going to see people being picked off one by one from each of those buckets. you're trying to take out the foundation from the punitive the guy who's the mafia boss. if you're fani willis, chip, chip, chip away. keep on trying to get as many people as possible so that ultimately donald trump has to decide whether or not he thinks he can go to trial against 18 of his co-defendants testifying against him.

>> barbara, does it necessarily follow that if you take a plea deal that includes a felony, even though it's not prison, includes a felony, that you know more or how valuable does your testimony need to be for prosecutors to say, we think we have you on a felony, with but i don't want to say walk away from this, there are other things he has to do, like significant community service, to make this kind of deal? >> i think all of these initial deals are favorable to the defendants in terms of the prosecutors have given up quite a bit in exchange. the first people in the door get the best deals because of this domino effect that exists. getting these early guilty pleas can be incredibly valuable, that oftentimes they are willing to cut better deals. the next people in the door may not fare so well. but they're all watching,

because of that phenomenon, they're often willing to do that. the other thing i would say is prosecutors have this phrase, they say you don't buy a pig in a poke. which goes back to the idea of buying livestock sight unseen. so before you agree to this deal, you want to hear what he has to say, and all of these defendants have been providing video reported proffers as part of the plea agreement. so before prosecutors agree to give this deal, they have heard what he can deliver, and only a defendant who can provide what's called substantial assistance that is a term of art, that can be used in the prosecution of others, receives this kind of deal, so i think that prosecutors, based on the deal they were able to give here are receiving a lot in exchange. >> laura, and i want to move on to new york, but i have to give you a chance to weigh in on this first. >> i think it's worth unpacking exactly what he's pleading guilty to, which is conspiring to file false statements, false documents as it relates to the false slates of electors in

georgia. remember, he put up these fake pro-trump slate of electors. you can't have a conspiracy without other people, of course katie and barbara know well. you have to have more than one person, and in this conspiracy, prosecutors allege that the former president is part of that conspiracy. rudy giuliani is part of that conspiracy. john eastman is part of that conspiracy. he now has to provide truthful testimony if called to the witness stand about all of them. so even though he's pleading guilty to something narrow, the wider conspiracy, prosecutors get to tell that story through ken chesebro now. >> which makes it sound like this is not the best thing for the former president, but he isn't having a fantastic day, laura, which brings me to the fraud trial in new york. the judge is now threatening trump with jail. what's going on? >> this is a civil trial. this is about the gag order. judge engoron put a gag order in place saying please do not talk about my court staff. the former president had actually posted something on

truth social that involved the judge's clerk. the judge said, look, things are so heated right now. stop that, i do not want that. it puts her life at risk. the campaign left a post on the website for the past 17 days. it came to the judge's attention, and he tore into trump and his attorneys this morning in court essentially saying, look, i have to figure out sanctions here, and tell me why i shouldn't put your compliant in jail for having willfully violated my gag order. we'll wait to see actually a formal order. that's footage earlier from the former president. he's not there today. we'll wait to see a formal order from the judge. he was furious by all accounts from those who were in court. everybody knows the first rule of anything in court is you do not go after the judge's staff, and yet, former president ignored essentially this gag order. so the judge is feeling like he has to do something in response. >> barbara, what do you make of this move by the judge and do you think in the other cases involving donald trump, the

judges are watching exactly what's happening there in new york? >> i think this was an important moment for the judge to let -- know that this is not just something he's going to say. he's going to back it up. i do think, for example, judge chutkan has a gag order in place. i think all the judges who are presiding over these cases have to be on notice that, number one these orders are appropriate, and number two, the trump team is not so willing to comply with them. so i think everyone now is on notice that these gag orders have some teeth. >> barbara mcquade, katie phang, laura jarrett, thanks to all of you. now, amid the israel-hamas war, president biden is now meeting with the president of the european council as well as the president of the european commission. they're at the white house right now, and just moments ago, reporters got a chance to ask questions. the president answering one about the delay in getting aid to gaza. let's listen. >> what do you make of that --

what do you make of that? >> i'll answer that one question, and i'll say good-bye to all of you. i believe you'll see that i got a commitment from the israelis and the president of egypt that the crossing be opened. highway had to be repaved because it was in very bad shape, and i believe that the next 24 to 48 hours, the first 20 trucks will come across. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> as we've been hearing, we're going to talk more about this coming up. time is of the essence for getting that aid into gaza, but then there's the whole other situation happening on capitol hill where another speaker vote has ended in a stalemate. we're back in just 60 seconds. p to your routine. listerine is 5x more effective

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. we're back now with a tail of two washingtons, at 1600 pennsylvania avenue a president both certain and determined in his view of the united states' singular ability to preserve and defend democracy around the world, but on capitol hill, his message facing great uncertainty before the congress that he will need to pay for that defense. and with jim jordan's bid failing, republicans still can't find someone, anyone who can get enough votes to be speaker of the house, even temporarily. so here we are, day 17. the house is still paralyzed. a roadblock president biden acknowledges while arguing the aid is vital not just to israel and ukraine, but also for u.s. security. >> i know we have our divisions at home. we have to get past them. we can't let petty partisan angry politics get in the way of our responsibility as a great nation. >> joining us now nbc's ali

vitali on capitol hill yet again. nbc's aaron gilchrist is at the white house, and matthew dowd joins us, former chief strategist for the bush cheney 2002 campaign and a senior msnbc political analyst. so ali, is there a plan -- i don't want to say b, z at this point? what are you hearing from republicans after this third vote turned out even worse for jim jordan? he just keeps losing votes. >> reporter: well, chris, i'm back in the basement. republicans back behind closed doors, and i just saw a lot of boxes of pizza rolling into the room, so they may be hunkered down in there for a good long while, especially because our understanding of one of the things that might come up in these closed door meetings is potentially revoting behind closed doors to affirm in the words of what one member said to me that jim jordan is actually the majority choice of the party. i don't know if that ballot is going to be what we've seen it be in the past when they've voted behind closed doors, which

is typically a secret ballot as opposed to maybe it's something where they do this more widely so that everyone can see who stands where. i'm not sure what the mechanics of that look like at this point. when i caught one jordan just in the last two minutes as he was walking into the room, he told me he didn't to want get into what they were going to do in this conference meeting, but i asked him if he thought his member should stay the weekend and continue to just hash this out. he said that the house needed a speaker, no word officially on if that means they're staying and leaving and coming back on monday to try again. there's certainly this juxtaposition between those who are in jordan's camp who are saying continue to grind this out. jordan himself made a reference to the fact that mccarthy went 15 ballots before becoming the speaker of the house. that's true, but at the same time, jordan's progress over these three votes has been trending in the opposite direction that he would want it to be trending, which is to say on this last balloting round he lost three more people who flipped from being in his corner

to now being against him. that's a clear sign from within the conference, and i'm going to be interested to see if they do another vote that's meant to either affirm him as the speaker designate or not, a, if it's not jordan, then who? and if it is jordan, does anyone in that room change their mind in a significant way that puts him either closer or further away from getting to the finish line here. >> and in the, i don't know, weirdness, matthew of everything that's been going on, you have the former speaker kevin mccarthy actually giving the nominating speech for jordan, and it was interesting to listen to the reaction when clearly he was aware of the criticism against jim jordan that in 16 years in the house, he never had a bill he sponsored signed into law. listen to this. >> let me correct the record, jim jordan is an effective

legislator. [ applause ] to legislate is about more than the name on the bill. it's about reaching compromise and working long hours behind the scenes to get the job done. >> and that gavel was -- there will be order in the house, which seems like an exercise in futility at this point, matthew. where does this all leave us? by us i mean the american people who want legislators to do their jobs? >> well, i mean, i think that's the real most important question in this is is there a members of the republican party who are interested in governance and the properly functioning of government and the necessity that it bears in what we need at this time, and it seems jim jordan is definitely not, i mean, why would anybody think he would accept the results of a

speakership race when he hasn't accepted the results of the 2020 presidential election three years ago. he didn't ever accept those results. there is a path if republicans, some republicans are interested in governance and making this work, and the path is going to the democrats and saying what will you agree to, and if they -- there's already 212 that will vote for something definitively in this, if republicans went to them and said tell us what you would agree to in this, we'd have a speaker in five minutes. the republicans are unwilling to do that because they seem unwilling to put things in order to have proper governance, and elevating someone like jim jordan who former speaker boehner described as a legislative terrorist in this, is going in the opposite direction of reaching consensus and compromise and making sure government functions. >> yeah, two different views,

the legislative terrorist or just what we heard from kevin mccarthy, that he's an effective legislator. all right, all of this, aaron, as you know, is happening at a time when the white house is asking congress for $105 billion in new funding. give us the breakdown. >> reporter: so the white the house has marked $92 billion of th as money for national security concerns, and we'll show you the breakdown here. about 61 bil of that would be for ukraine, primarily military nding. the other 14 billion there, 14 billion plus for israel and its defense in its fight against hamas, and also almost $10 billion earmarked for humanitarian asstance. that would be for israel, for ukraine, for gaza, and for other parts of the world as well, and i think it's also worth noting that there's money that's been earmarked here for border of cbp agents that are working r at the southern border of the u.s., and also you see a note, $1.2 billion for countering fentanyl. the president tried to make the

case last night in his address for why the united states needs to be seeing these funding priorities with this emergency funding request he sent up to capitol hill. i want you to hear what we thought was sort of a key explanation that the president tried to get across last night. >> i know these conflicts can seem far away, it's natural to ask why does this matter to america. so let me share with you why making sure israel and ukraine succeed is vital for america's national security. you know, history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. they keep going, and the cost and the threats to america and the world keep rising. >> and so the president's budget director told reporters this morning that the white house has now done its job. it's identified a critical funding need to the congress and the expectation now is that congress will act and act quickly. >> well, that's the expectation.

what's the reality, ali? >> i mean, the expectation is that without a speaker, you can't get anything to come to the floor. so the reality and the expectation are actually in line on this one. the senate is going to move forward on receiving this package, on doing their work on this, and eventually push will come to shove. i mean, i was just in with the top democrat hakeem jeffries who was once again reiterating to reporters this afternoon and earlier this morning as well, that this is a time for urgency, that not only is the government shutdown coming ever closer with each passing day, but the aid package that the president spoke about laht and sent over to the hill is something that also requires quick urgency and ssage. speaker also doesn't mean that it gets easier to pass that package, especially because israel is one thing, if you talk to house republicans, but the ukraine funding piece of this is another, and it does spark tension once again within this

conference of what it is to give foreign aid from the united states and who gets it at this point. this package even with a speaker is already meant for bumpy roads in the house. they can't even begin to get on the road until they have a speaker. which is why it's once again so important to reference the fact, and as we see, congressman d'esposito, do you think you'll be willing to change your vote at any point? >> i think there's conversations that are happening right now between the three of us from long island as well as the chairman, chairman jordan. he's had an open door policy. we're just trying to get to an understanding of some of the things that really matter to us in new york and on long island. >> so of course he is one of these three and frankly now four republicans who are voting during these balloting rounds for lee zeldin, who is a former congressman from new york.

this is one of the members that jordan, as he mentioned, has an open door policy with. they are actively in conversation, but it's been three balloting rounds and we haven't seen any changes, chris. so again, when you talk about the role of having no speaker, it comes back to the question that you first asked and that aaron was reporting on from the white house, the idea that it might seem like it's a far away thing to have no speaker. it's a somewhat dark comedy show over here in congress, but there are real world implications that these taxpayer funded lawmakers and this taxpayer funded building is not functioning, cannot take up legislation until they elect a speaker. >> thank you so much for that. appreciate all of you, matthew, aaron, ali. i want to bring in someone who has held many titles in his long career including defense secretary, cia director, and white house chief of staff, leon panetta. thank you so much for joining us. when we talk about the real world consequences that ali just mentioned, they are, as we've been discussing, incredibly

significant right now. i do not envy the white house chief of staff. what's the role of the white house in this, or do they have to just sit back and hope that somehow, sometime the house gets functional? >> well, i think what they're doing right now is the right thing, which is to focus on the business that has to be done and proposing this aid package and the speech last night from the president i think were exactly the right things to do in order to stress the importance of u.s. world leadership. but look, i think -- i think the fundamental problem right now is that the worst threat to our national security is dysfunction in washington. if the house of representatives cannot get a speaker appointed, and one of the houses of the congress is totally broken down,

that represents a real threat to our national security because it means that we cannot function in order to be able to fulfill our responsibilities as a world leader, and that, i think, is what the members on the hill have to think long and hard about. this is jeopardizing united states national security by virtue of the fact that they cannot govern. >> so i think that's exactly right what president biden's speech last night was about, he closely linked the conflicts in israel and ukraine framing them as an international test of american resolve in the fight for democracy, but as a foreign aid proposal, what he has put forth is far larger than even many democrats might have expected just a couple of days ago, and it comes as a lot of americans are increasingly worried about the economy here. so i wonder if you think this proposal might be a bit of an

overreach, or do you think he made his case last night? >> i think he made a very strong case for united states world leadership. look, this is a dangerous world. it's a dangerous world. we're confronting challenges from russia, from china, from north korea, from iran, from failed states in the middle east, and now from hamas. there's a lot of danger points in the world, and the reality is that there's only one country that can truly provide world leadership at this point in time, and that's the united states of america. i think president biden understands that, and he clearly presented that issue to the american people, and so this is -- this is a time when america has to be the arsenal for democracy, and our security is dependent on that.

so i think the american people understand that, yes, we're trying to focus on problems of our economy, we're trying to focus on other issues that the united states has to deal with, but the fundamental issue for the united states is security. if we don't have security, then everything else doesn't count for much. so right now the focus of everybody, the congress, the president and the world ought to be how do we take the right steps in order to make sure that we can advance a peaceful solution to the problems we're facing. >> yeah, worth reminding that thousands of people have died, that 200 hostages are being held, that 32 u.s. citizens were killed, and at least 11 right now are unaccounted for. and as we watched the protests across the middle east, do you see any scenario where this does not develop into a wider regional conflict? >> well, there's no question

that's a danger. we understand that if hezbollah decides to take action onto the north of israel, that that would certainly expand the war. iran operates through a number of proxy terrorist groups, whether it's hamas, whether it's the houthis in yemen. there are other triggers they can push in order to increase the danger of escalation. the hope is that doesn't happen. the united states has made clear that we've sent a force to the middle east as deterrents against that kind of eventuality. but i think we have to also recognize that in that part of the world it doesn't take much to escalate this conflict into a larger war. >> we're out of time, but would you say that's more likely than not at this stage? >> i think the risk of that

happening remains high. >> former defense secretary and cia director leon panetta, it's always great to have you on the program, we do appreciate your time. thank you. >> good to be with you. up next, truckloads of critical aid still stuck on the egypt side of the closed rafah border crossing. the latest holdup and the race against the clock to get it into gaza before it's too late. plus, some college students facing backlash for protests over the israeli-hamas war. what is the line between free speech and intolerable rhetoric at a university? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc.

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. and we have yet more breaking news, three sources confirmed to nbc news that two american hostages have been released by hamas. i want to bring in nbc news's kelly cobiella, what do we know? >> reporter: we don't know too much more than that at the moment. please bear with me here. it appears that hamas has released a brief statement saying it has, in fact, released two american female hostages, a mother and daughter. three independent sources confirming to nbc news that two american hostages have, in fact, been released. a lot of questions out right now because we know that these hostages, the hostages involved

some 203, according to the idf are all inside gaza, so the question is released to whom, where are they? how are they making their way out? if they are making their way out, and the identification obviously of these two hostages. all we know at this point is that two american hostages, a mother and daughter according to three sources who have told nbc news have, in fact, been released by hamas. if this is true, it's an incredible turn of events. as you know, we've been hanging on every word of the idf and others in terms of what's happening with those hostages inside gaza. there were reports by my good colleague richard engel earlier in the week that hamas had indicated that they would be willing to turn over some he or she -- hostages if the bombing stopped. that hasn't happened. so unclear right now how this

came about or, again, where these hostages are, but just incredible news that two have been released. >> kelly cobiella, i know as we learn more you'll come back to us, so thank you for that. meantime, critical aid remains heartbreakingly close at the rafah border crossing, but those lines of trucks are still waiting to get inside and deliver life saving aid to the people of gaza right now. the u.n. secretary general who was there this morning not mincing words about how critical this is. >> these trucks are not just trucks. they are a lifeline. they are the difference between anddeath. >> we know that time is rapidly running out. yesterday doctors without borders warned that gaza's main hospital would go dark in 24 hours which could be a death sentence for patients. it comes as air strikes continue to pound gaza, one overnight

damaging a greek orthodox church sheltering hundreds of displaced palestinians. 18 people were killed according to the palestinian health ministry. one survivor told reuters, quote, they came here to escape the air strikes and the destruction. they thought they were safe here. the destruction followed them. the idf says they did not intend to hit the church, they were targeting a nearby hamas command and control center. but soon as the defense minister puts it, troops will see gaza, quote, from the inside. as for the 203 hostages taken captive there, the idf says the majority are still alive. here's the latest information they've given us, more than 20 are children under the age of 18. perhaps 10 to 20 of them are over the age of 60, and as we just reported, three sources confirmed to nbc news that two american hostages have been released by hamas. i want to bring in nbc's meagan

fitzgerald from cairo. meagan, in that briefing, the idf noted that the entry of aid through the rafah crossing was tbd at this point. a little different than what we heard from the president who was meeting with eu officials and suggested that they were moving toward that. what do we know at this minute? >> yeah, you're absolutely right. i mean, look, we have been waiting for the rafah border crossing to open for the last three days now to get that aid into gaza for the more than 2 million people who are desperate, and as you mentioned just moments ago we heard from president biden who gives us a little bit more detail about a time line. take a listen to what he had to say. >> highway had to be repaved because it was in very bad shape, and i believe that the next 24 to 48 hours the first 20 trucks will come across. >> reporter: right, so the president is putting that time line of the rafah border crossing opening by this

weekend, and when he talked about repairs and construction that needed to be done, he's referring to the fact that the israelis have bombed rafah border crossing several times over the last several days. we also heard earlier today as you mentioned from u.n. secretary general antonio gutierrez who spoke passionately about how time is of the essence and the clock is ticks. he talked about how there are still details that needed to be ironed out. the amount of aid that goes across the boarder and how frequently that aid goes across the border and once those trucks do cross, how will they refuel those it trucks. these are things that are being discussed as we speak. again, time is of the essence. we know that people in gaza are desperate for this aid. they're running out of food. they're running out of water, electricity, so all eyes are most certainly going to be watching this weekend for the

opening of that crossing. chris. >> thank you so much for that. now tensions are rising by the second across the middle east today with more protests and more eyes on the israeli military as they indicate a ground invasion into gaza could come very, very soon. just a few hours ago we got this look inside the west bank from nbc news chief foreign correspondent, richard engel. >> reporter: we are in the west bank city of ramallah. this is a palestinian-run city. there have been some clashes here between palestinian demonstrators, stone throwers, and israeli troops, but they have been relatively small. earlier there was a protest march in this city held by supporters of hamas and other palestinian factions. it was held in solidarity with the people of gaza, but it was also encouraging hamas. people were telling hamas to carry out more strikes against israel, more rocket attacks against this country, anger is growing here in the west bank. there's a possibility of a new palestinian uprising or an

intafada here. it's also growing across the region in israel and the united states which is seen as working hand in glove with israel and its impending operation against the gaza strip. in a major development this morning, a major announcement from the israeli military, the idf said according to its analysis, it didn't reveal where it's getting this information, but we know that discussions are underway between arab mediators and hamas, that of the 200 hostages held in gaza, still held in gaza according to the israeli military, that it believes that most of them are still alive, that they are still in gaza, that 10 to 20 of them are over 60 years old, and 20 believed to be under 18 years old, so it is some indication that israel, potentially that it received some sort of sign of life or indications that those hostages remain live.

whereabouts, however, still unknown, only that they are in gaza. all of what we're seeing here, however, all the anger here and in other places could pale in comparison to what is coming if the israeli troops go ahead with a planned invasion into the gaza strip, it says to eliminate hamas and eliminate its military capability. we are already now seeing iran's proxies starting to activate attacks against both israel and the united states with houthi rebels backed by iran from yemen firing potentially toward israel, shiite militias in syria, firing on american outposts, iraq also american outposts in iraq also coming under attack by shia militia's backed by iran. this war is starting to escalate as iran activates its proxies. the biggest one, however, the most powerful one is hezbollah. so far we have only seen minor harassing attacks from hezbollah and lebanon towards israel.

if that front lights up -- and it could light up if or when israel goes into the gaza strip -- we could have an entirely different conflict on our hands that would also, as we're seeing already now, include the united states. >> richard engel just a short time ago in ramallah, thank you so much. nbc news has been in regular contact with an american who is near the rafah crossing, stuck wanting to leave gaza. her story gives us a window into the raw emotion and desperation on the ground there right now. watha is a retired teacher from tallahassee. she went to visit her ailing parents in the gaza strip. now her family home is destroyed and she's trying to get back to the u.s. her story told through audio messages on whatsapp accompanied by images capturing the crisis in gaza right now. >> looks like a ghost town with

bombing around the hour. that's what it looks like. everybody inside their houses scared, every time a bomb goes down, we jump out of our place. we jump out of our skin, our heart comes out from our chests, kids are crying everywhere. they don't know what to do. my family house is all broken out inside, all glass, all the furniture, everything so it's not livable. my mother-in-law's house also a bomb went just across the street from where they live, and that's when we had to evacuate with my mother. i was almost killed in the incident, so it was really, really scary. i keep on thinking that i'm in a nightmare and i'm going to wake up from it, but honestly, it's

taking so long. i thought it would stop sooner. i don't understand anymore my brain can't take it. my heart can't take it because i would like to help, but i don't know how, and i don't understand why. >> and we will continue to bring you any updates on watha and her family as we have them. in the meantime, i want to get back to our breaking news, sources confirming to nbc news that two american hostages have been released by hamas. joining us now nbc news correspondent raf sanchez, what more do we know, raf? >> reporter: well, chris, this was first announced in a statement by the spokesman of the so-called military wing of hamas. he said that following mediation by qatar, hamas had decided to release two american citizens. they say a mother and a daughter and hamas says this was for humanitarian reasons.

now, they are saying in this statement that they released these americans as a sort of rebuke to the statements that president biden made when he was here in israel earlier in the week where he condemned hamas as a terrorist organization. he condemned the atrocities committed by hamas on october 7th. hamas is saying that they are trying to show the american people a different side and that is why they have made this decision. now, we should be clear, we do not yet know where these two americans have been released to. one possibility is that they will be released across gaza's southern border into egypt. we know that the rafah crossing has been closed for humanitarian aid, but it is possible that they could be handed over to egyptian officials there. there is a large american state department and other agencies presence in egypt. they were hoping to deal with the palestinian americans trapped inside gaza trying to get out, so that is one possibility that they could be

released into egypt, into american care there. we don't know for sure. we have just got a statement from the israel hostages family forum. this is a kind of umbrella group representing the roughly 200 families who have a loved one being held inside of gaza right now. they say that they congratulate the release of the hostages from hamas captivity, but they go on to say the continued holding of hostages is a war crime. hundreds of families await the assistance of arab states after hamas's actions shocked the entire world. now, chris, this was a highly choreographed release by hamas, at about 7:30 local time, they put out a little update saying that they were about to make an important announcement, and then about seven minutes later in both english and arabic, they put out this statement that they were releasing these two american hostages. this was all done under the name

of abu obeda, the spokesman for the so-called military wing of hamas. he has been the source of what little we know about the roughly 200 hostages who are being held in gaza. he was the one who initially floated earlier there week the prospect that hamas might release foreign nationals and they have now released these two americans in what appears to be a kind of pr move, an attempt at public diplomacy to try to push back against the forceful statements made by president biden when he was here in israel earlier this week. >> of course the reality remains, and thank god for the two americans who have been for americans who have been released but there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 people who continue to be held, and of course, i think, that ominous statement that the majority of hostages are alive, meaning that some of the people they took are no longer alive. what more do we know? what has the idf had to say

about the hostages overall? >> reporter: so far nothing official from the idf about these two menace. i can tell you, chris, the prospect of hostages being released could be one more complicating factor when it comes to the israeli calculation about how and when to go into gaza on the ground. i can tell you that even in the short time since we had this statement from hamas, we have continued to hear explosions from israeli air strikes down in gaza. earlier on today the israeli military giving us a more granular sense of the hostage situation. they say some 200 people are being held. they say about 10% of them are children under the age of 18. you and i spoke last night about 8-year-old ohad who is going to turn 9 on monday. his family worried about whether or not he has his glasses. he is one of the children being held, but as you said, the

really important line this that ominous hamas statement, excuse me, the statement from the israeli military is that the majority of the hostages are alive. and the reason that matters is hamas has a long track record of holding the bodies of dead israelis and then in a macob sense, pretending that these people were still alive to raise their value as human bargaining chips. since 2014, hamas has been holding the bodies of two israeli soldiers killed during the last major israeli ground incursion into gaza. hamas continues to insist to this day that those two soldiers are alive. the israeli military says they know that these soldiers are, in fact, dead. but hamas, in its grim calculations, knows that an alive israeli is more valuable than a dead one, and so one of the big questions inside israel was we know there are 200 people missing inside gaza, are they actually alive.

have they been murdered by hamas? were they killed on the way out of the kibbutz, killed on the journey over the border. the military is now saying it believes most of them are alive, which, chris, as you can imagine is giving hope to the families of the hostages, but also just adding to this devastating sense of not knowing where their loved ones are, when they will be released and pleading, pleading, pleading, for information. chris. >> raf sanchez, thank you for that. joining me now, nbc news chief washington correspondent and msnbc anchor, andrea mitchell, what more have you been able to learn about this? >> clearly the administration is scrambling. this is wonderful news. there has been a pause, not just in air attacks but certainly a pause in the ground invasion. this is something that the president was hoping for, arguing for, israelis were being told and the idf said that they would be going into the troops,

that they would be going in very soon inside gaza. that was yesterday's statement at the front lines from the defense minister. speaking to the reserve soldiers who have all been mostly reservists, 360,000 amassed and it was every indication that this could be soon, except for raf sanchez, richard engel reporting, that while they were there, there was no movement to indicate that it was happening within hours. in any case, all of my conversations with israeli sources is that the netanyahu administration, the cabinet, the war cabinet was not going to yield to the arguments, public and private, from president biden in the speech last night and certainly in private from my reporting when he met with them in israel and met with the war cabinet that they not go in big, that they go in, maybe come out more quickly or go in in a

targeted way, leaving corridors for aid, but none of the aid has gotten in. his argument was, you know, be cautioned by our experience, our american experience after 9/11 where we accomplished our purpose, went off the leaders, but then we stayed. we dissolved the bath army in iraq, ended up in decades of war fighting, you know, combatants and the creation of isis. all of that is a cautionary tale from joe biden's perspective, his experience to the israelis, the counter act to that an hour ago was ronan bergman, very well sourced "new york times" writer from israel who knows the israeli government so well, and he said to me that the perspective from the israeli people, most of them is, as divided as they have been over the netanyahu policies, domestic policies over the last year in profound ways, but the israeli

people want this invasion. they want hamas to be toppled. the leadership to be toppled. how extended that is, weeks, months, potentially longer is the question of what comes next. but the hostage, the priority of the hostages to this administration has been job one, from day one, and that was not the top priority of the netanyahu government. they wanted to go in and get the leadership and beware of the hostages, get their people back, but it was from the very beginning not as critical to this as it certainly has been to the u.s. and to those arguing that this needed to be a more targeted response. we should also point out that the reaction ever since the bombing in gaza of the hospital on tuesday has been global. you have the u.n. security council. france even calling for a pause in voting against the u.s. in a

resolution that the u.s. ended up on wednesday having to veto or tuesday rather, and the u.n. secretary general calling far cease fire in egypt and going to the rafah border. protests overseas, in the united states, divisions in congress, not on whether israel should go in but also on whether there should be a cease fire with the democratic party divided with some members, especially the muslim-american americans of congress, particularly from michigan, minnesota, the few members of congress and the democratic party who are muslim and have been very outspoken. this is all leading up to what could be good news today if two hostages, they say they're americans. they have been described by hamas as a woman and a daughter.

and we wait to find exactly who and whether they have crossed out of gaza, are in safe hands and whether we can report very important news to two american families. i should say that the state department briefing which was to be held this hour has been postponed to at least 3:00. >> andrea mitchell, thank you so much. yes, again, it was supposed to be at 1:15, so about 45 minutes ago. now it's going to be about an hour and a few from now. so clearly the state department is getting together their information. in the meantime, let me bring in retired four-star army general barry mccaffrey. you know, you never want to count your chickens, but as andrea says, this is wonderful news if indeed these two american hostages are going to be released, certainly for their families. difficult to put yourself in the mind of the leaders of hamas, but does this decision to release two americans tell us anything general?

>> i think it's a deliberate, what predictable cruel exploitation of hostages. hamas has every reason to fear the imminent ground, air ground operation, and to eliminate their leadership structure. i'd be unsurprised if we don't see another ten hostages proposed for release. they'll try and delay the attack for 30, 60, 90 days, and mire the israelis in condemnation, so, you know, it's just an untenable situation for the israelis. i still think they will believe strongly they are forced to go in on the ground, try and destroy hamas, gain two to five years of peace, and attempt to recover some or many of the hostages. >> talk about the disparity

as -- and that may not be the most appropriate word that andrea put out, the priority, and the president said this again last night. he said it from the beginning, that job one he considers for his administration is to get the american hostages released. but the anger and the ongoing feeling that their security is forever at stake on the side of israel, puts benjamin netanyahu in a very different place. where do you see that push and pull ending? >> i think we should expect president biden to say that the american hostages are his first priority. what else could he say that's appropriate? it's called for. having said that, it's extremely important, the united states as well as israel, how does this war end? and if the israelis are dominated by hamas, dribbling out