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call in a ditch in the middle the night. no big deal. but something about a story was off, somehow. >> my whole life is kind of gone to -- lately. >> it felt like there's something going on. it just didn't fit right. >> he'd have a better day had been normal. >> the strange encountered all but that is my win a few days later the deputy got a surprise call from the fbi. asking about that traffic accident. the kansas 9-1-1 call had popped up during the search of -- cell phone records. and the fbi was trying to create a timeline for tim dean and a murder investigation. >> i thought, wow, okay, i don't know what i have to offer for this but here's everything i've got. to try to help. >> so now, deputy nikole at cline county's sheriff's department in kansas found himself called into a growing multi state multi agency investigation. they want to hear everything. >> he is asking me if i worked -- who was there, and where was he going. >> without of state investigators eager to hear more of the deputies cited to

backtrack and try to figure out where dean had gone after the accident. the deputy visited the garage where the car had been taught. he, again, turn his body come on to report. >> thanks for coming your day off. we appreciate it. >> the garage mechanics remember hoping a tote bag full of ammo. >> the bag, when i opened up, it was a magazine for the memo. and -- >> big magazine or little magazine? >> big. once i ar style like miniature rifle. >> also into his car, was a long gun. >> that is when i saw the shotgun under the tote. i grabbed the shotgun and i saw a sports fest, i wouldn't say it was bulletproof but it was a sport shooting vest.

>> with puches or something? >> i don't remember there's patches. but it is all black. and it was probably 58 pounds. it had some weight to it. >> did you come in the shop? >> but yeah. >> you have it in the shop? >> yes, we do. >> they had video of timothy dean showing up to pick up a tow. i could see the video you walked out with a concealable listed vest. and a 12 gauge shotgun. >> the grass grew wondered among themselves what the sky was doing with an arsenal in his car. >> i'm glad you guys are following up on this. because i even told him i had weird vibes about all of this. >> where did tim dean go next. the deputy learned he had an uber and tracked on the driver at her office. she said before trump got into a car he warned her about the goods he was carrying. >> you know, he won't, he goes to shock. and as it is loaded? >> he said no, i said that's fine. i'm not scared of guns. >> she dropped him off at a

local hotel. >> that's last you saw him? >> tim dean had left the hotel and got out of town. but how? the deputy assume tim read to a new car after a wreck dispersed. and so he went over to the main car rental company in town. enterprise. >> you see what i'm talking about? >> sure enough, the rental associate onto the said tim dean had been there. he was the walk-in from texas who didn't have a credit card on him. >> he walked in and then i told them i can cut him because he just had cash on him. i was really upset about, that he just left. >> left, but for where? back into texas? or somewhere else? there is about 48 hours before joshua number would be executed in new york. back in the station, deputy nicolette thought back on that long chat he had with tim dean. and there, on that body cam video, was a back and forth

that stopped him cold. >> so are you gonna go? >> well i got a family friend those gonna see but. >> or is that it? >> all the way up in new york. >> new york, the scene of the crime. deputy nicolette relay the information to the fbi. >> when i said that he was going to new york. everything changed, at that point. >> tim dean's cities come to new york. he's armed with more than one handgun. he's also got an ar-15 with him. a shotgun. >> how does explain all that's the deputy on the side of the road? >> i guess it's not uncommon for people to be in possession of weapons in kansas. but, it becomes instrumental when he admits that he's going to new york. as far as you know, tim dean did not have relatives in new york. >> but he did, they learned, have a fresh frontal picked up. and law enforcement would later have the make, model, cover, and license plate of the vehicle passing surveillance

cameras on its way to upstate new york. timothy dean was a heat seeking missile on his way. >> coming up. >> we've always got that the sky has killed two people. we're not getting a chance on him. >> inside the all-out blowout to capture attendees. >> we've got as in the house. we know we saw. >> they've got explosives in the door. the back. out the back out, nobody is clear. >> could they take him alive? when dateline continues. diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like, "what is your glucose?" and "can you have more carbs?" before you decide... with the freestyle libre 2 system know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. and lower your a1c. the number one doctor prescribed cgm. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

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>> >> -- the investigative cards they're holding. no matter how badly they need to know. >> we were cooperating with the police trying to get as much information with the police as we could. follow new stories as best as we could. trying to piece things together. >> the police just kept saying be patient. as things come up, be patient. so i was patient. i don't want to interfere and to stop them from finding who killed my son. >> so the families didn't know about october 29th 2018. one week after the murders. five detectives from new york were headed to the texas panhandle. they want to talk with tim dean, charlene says been. >> you take a road trip? >> yes we do, never do it again. that's 24 solid hours of

driving. >> they'd come up with a plan to bring him into custody. >> texas decided that they had still had some charges for him on the complaint. >> this is really a holding action. the plan one ice while you can put the case. or try to talk to him. >> tim dean lived in a 50s one story house on the edge of town. the cops had surveil the home and you he was there. they were treating him as the suspect in a double homicide, not a child abuse or. so they went and strong. after dark. swat teams, uniforms, weapons drawn. i take down right out of seal team six. texas investigator, tom flood, was there. >> how commit could be a knock, knock, knock, you know who we are. we have paper for you. we're gonna serve you. >> sort of the case that this gets killed two people were not to take the chance of him shooting an officer. >> we know he's there they put explosives on the door they back out. every square every situated, the bulk door.

>> this iphone footage was taken by a neighbor across the street. as explosions blew out the front door. >> what a show. it is like a commando operation. >> straight out of military. eventually, does come out, they actually comes about right here in races his hand. >> and, if he had surrendered -- >> that made a poor decision to resist he was gonna go to a shot at that point. >> no. he would've been shot. >> with the suspect in custody. dean, the one-time police chief, was transported to an interrogation room to be questioned by an fbi agent. but of course, the reason department had nothing to do with causing injury to a child. the charge on the arrest warrant. they want to talk to him about amber and josh. >> had never met one person? >> i've been there when you come to get the kids. >> houses the meter. what is the line of the question? >> he's very quite. he doesn't say a whole lot. >> they asked him by the soon to be ex-wife, charlene. the trouble he caused both for

kids. >> i did try to lose in custody? >> obviously not well. >> like anybody else, yeah? >> i mean she's never not had the kids. >> does she blame you? -- probably. >> of course one of the theories was that tim had killed him or josh to when his wife back. >> do you think it get her kids -- help you get her back? >> i know there's no getting back. there hasn't been. >> i mean, in your mind, that a possibility. and you're the prostate and stuff? >> it's done. it's been done. there's no getting her back. i've accepted that. that's why i've been in a -- state of mind. >> is a true you hated josh? >> never even met the man. >> investigators told him they knew he traveled to new york state around the time of the murders.

but, why did he drive all the way there? >> i was really medical see her uncle. that's if i could talk to him and get him to talk some sense of her and maybe -- maybe get her to ride this thing out with me. >> maybe tim did think he couldn't win her back. but, and he had, he admitted he never did see her uncle. just drove, slip, and drink. for a while, the investigators played good cop with him. and seemed to speak to him with a sense of compassion. >> i mean, i got a life is hard. but my version of hard and original hard this different things. i can't say moleskins art. goodness, i can sympathize with you. >> tim told them, yes, he had hit a low point. and offered an explanation as to why he was driving so far from home. >> i left home detention of putting a bullet in my head. so that no one knows me will have to find me and work it. >> okay.

>> what changed? >> i turn my phone off, so nobody could call me for caused him to try to talk me out of it. >> okay. >> the interrogators ever so gently turn the conversation back to the murders. >> what changed? what made change to what happened on that day? >> if you think you're gonna sit here and say that i did that, you're crazy. >> i think you're crazy if you don't, quite honestly. >> them, it's not a question if you did it -- >> as a question of why, and are you sorry? do you think these five different detectives from new york drove down here for no reason? >> i don't know what they pfizer. i got no idea why the fbi is here. >> what happens when you drive. >> i didn't commit the perfect crime.

unless suicide is on the fbi's radar. >> the interrogators weren't buying it. and urged him to come clean. >> you're not a monster, man. you have -- up. there is no doubt about it. but there can be a redemption in life. there couldn't really can. >> what you're showing me right now is that you are a real person. and, not only that. you are a good cop. at some times, right. we all screw up in life. there is a path to redemption, and everything else him. >> when that approach failed, investigators try to rattle him by talking about the victims. >> are you sorry amber and josh got killed? do you hear what i'm saying? >> i hear what you're saying. >> are you sorry that they got killed? i'm not saying you kill them. are you sorry they got killed? >> yes. >> can you say their names? >> charge an amber. >> say, i'm josh allen where

got killed. >> i said. it >> no you didn't. >> you said it imparts. >> you know because you can't. you realize you're talking about being in sodus and we know that. and you're saying that you didn't do, it but you know presumably that. >> i take my chances i guess. >> the investigators worked hard to break him. but they never did get a confession. >> i've never been in the presence of a bigger coward. >> fortunately, tim dean wasn't the only person they wanted to talk to. there was, can you believe it, another local cop on a list of persons of interest. coming up! >> you like police work? >> yes ma'am. >> two cops. but in the middle of a murder plot? >> they have a decision to make. whether he wants to be a good witness, or he wants to be charged in conspiracy to commit two murders. >> definitely don't want that. >> so he is way in the slime at this point? >> yeah. he was hit with all the truth. >> soon, he would have a killer

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by downloading duckduckgo on mobile and desktop today. tim dean stuck to his story. he had driven to new york with suicide in mind. >> unless suicide is on the fbi 's radar. >> his interrogators did not believe him for an instant. but they had another lead to pursue. another cop, in fact. a man named ron. >> so brian how do you see his last name? >> bowler.

>> bowler? never heard it say it out loud. >> he is a police officer. >> yes he is. >> he had served 11 years as a texas cop. he had worked for the cactus police department and saw most recently at sun ray after tim loved his job there. and he was a family man, a husband, a father, and a friend to tim dean. so how did officer braun come on to the police radar? >> okay. got your license and paperwork for this thing? >> well, it goes back to that rental car that tim dean put in a ditch in kansas. it was brown's name on the rentals papers, not tim's. they steadily picked up on that right away. >> this is bowler brown. >> he's a buddy of mine. >> that's gonna cause you more problems than anything. >> i know. >> so he rented the car for you? >> yeah. i was like at work. i wasn't going to make it in time. i'm not looking forward to that phone call. that'll bite him in the as pretty big. >> exactly. >> when bronze interview ended those ten fallen back to his house while the authorities

prepared an arrest warrant. >> he got home, we arrest him. >> your career law enforcement, tom? doesn't embarrass it ever talked about two guys were sworn officers here? >> it is embarrassing to think that they felt like they could do this and get away with it. it is a shame that i want to this point. they knew there was other options. but they want to take it the way that is going to get somebody killed. that is just not. they know that. >> that the majority of sunrays three men for, past and present, under arrest. but the investigation was far from over. someone else they had i'd all along was still in the crosshairs. they were back to where they had started, with a certain embittered young woman from texas. >> coming up. >> i call this mom. and she's like, charlene what is going on? >> josh is dead.

i hit the floor. >> really? >> what the heck is going on. it still feels a horrible bad dream. >> josh's ex, charlene. >> you need to look at charlene. i said, i pray it is not. >> what story would she tell? >> the driven thing to do with him shooting josh an amber? when dateline continues.

-- two cops could come to plot a murder. >> and this is the garage. this is where the meetings took place. at least one of those meetings,

bronwood here it while he was on duty, while working. so there is martinez out front. >> wow, so he is in uniform? i can't help but think, here we are 1500 miles away, a guy in upstate new york who is a dead man walking. he has no idea what is going at down in this garage and panhandle of texas. >> he knew what it. >> what does he have going on? >> other than the fact that he worked as a police officer, tim was his friend and was going to do whatever he needed to help him. >> including a rental car so you can drive all the way across the country and kill? >> exactly. >> when bronze interview ended, lieutenant followed him back to his house, while the authorities prepared an arrest warrant. >> we got, home we arrested him. >> you are in law enforcement, is it embarrassing we are talking about two guys who are sworn officers here? >> it is embarrassing to think that they felt like they could do this and get away with it. it is a shame that i want to this point. they knew there was other

options. but they want to take it the way that is going to get somebody killed. that is just not. they know that. >> that the majority of sunrays three men for, past and present, under arrest. but the investigation was far from over. someone else they had i'd all along was still in the crosshairs. they were back to where they had started, with a certain embittered young woman from texas. >> coming up. >> i call this mom. and she's like, charlene what is going on? >> josh is dead. i hit the floor. >> really? >> what the heck is going on. it still feels a horrible bad dream. >> josh's ex, charlene. >> you need to look at charlene. i said, i pray it is not. >> what story would she tell? >> the driven thing to do with him shooting josh an amber? when dateline continues.

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its plans to expand operations have been approved ahead of a looming ground incursion into gaza. and idf official called on residents of northern gaza to continue evacuating to the south. and, now back to dateline. >> what happened? >> well, i try to turn around. >> >> that accident in kansas proved the undoing attendee in. found with a car full of guns and ammo on his way to new york

state. the very place where the murders word occur. >> where is that at? >> that is way up in new york. >> but here's a question about the theory of the crime. was tim a desperate, depressed man on the wish it to went back on his wife? or, was his wife in on? it all along the detectives consider the possibility that they not only knew about the plan to murder charge, but maybe had talked him into doing it as play back for his blunder in losing the kids. >> so you owe me tim dean, you owe me a big one here. >> yes. >> it was a theory that came to resonate for some of josh and embers loved ones. >> he had a couple of friends that they were like you need to look at charlie. >> did you say oh no that can't be done? >> i did say. oh no it couldn't be. i said oh no i pray it's not.

>> in fact, josh's sister nicole had given police an earful about charlene early on. >> cops came into my house and told me what happened and ask me if my brother had enemies. and i said he does not have enemies but he does have charlene. >> nicole right away says it's her. >> her and josh's best friend katie. they both said i don't think she should be her, i think it might have been her. and i said that's crazy. >> by the time of the funerals, even embers sister who had never met charlie thought that she might be involved. >> i saw her for the first time in my life at the funeral. and, i just got cold chills. and i remember speaking at the funeral, given my sister's eulogy. seeking her out. and in the crowd. just to make eye contact with her. when i was talking about how good my mother, her sister, was to children. >> and you had -- >> yes. >> big and the bad-mouthing of josh depicting as a violent, that guy. there was a case against charlene and it was a big factor. in her early phone calls, she claimed she learned of josh's death on facebook. that she had seen a picture of

the house and the street addressed with that in fact did not happen. the street was made public, but not the house or number. >> that was a liar because that was not photographed. >> she couldn't? >> she could've seen it. >> so how did she know unless she was part of the plot? eight days after the murders, detectives picked up charlene at her boyfriend, casey's house. >> we knocked on the door, and asked charlene to come with us. she didn't seem fazed by the whole thing. she didn't seem shocked. >> she didn't say i got a lawyer? we're done here? >> no. >> so she came down? >> she did. she lit willingly talk to us for quite awhile. >> hello. nice to meet you. >> conversation was cordial as they walk through her back story. charlene told them how surprised she had been when she found out that her ex boyfriend was dead. >> so i called his mom. and she says, charlene, yes

what's going on? josh is dead. i had the floor. >> really. >> what the hell is going on? >> yeah. >> it still feels like a horrible bad dream. >> right. >> how could, who, why? that's what i want to know. >> could tim of been the shooter, they asked her? did he arbor elwell against russia. >> he knew the stuff that josh had done to me. >> what do you mean? >> josh used to be the hell out of me. >> oh really? >> but. you know. tim had never really spoke to bat about him. you know. it was more of if i could ever get into a fight with him i would fight him. >> do you think that tim is capable of this? >> i can't see it. unless it was on the job, protection. >> right. >> i can't see him. he is not that type of person. >> right. >> charlene denied knowledge of tim's murderous plans. but detectives had learned something else about her. and it went back to that rental car that he ended up crashing.

charlene had driven to pick it up at the start of the road trip. >> did you take somebody to go around and get your vehicle? >> i took my friend to go get the vehicle. >> who is that? >> ron. i can't say easements name. ron. >> ron? >> ron. >> she said she was simply doing a friend of favor. never asked him who or what it was for. >> he did it think it was unusual? this guy didn't talk among the way? getting a vehicle? >> what? >> isn't that kind of unusual? >> i just keep people's privacy. we talked with just about that. >> but there was so much more to the saga of the wrecked rental car. remember how he had trouble renting a replacement because he only had cash? >> he was really upset about that many just left. >> detectives now learned that it was charlene herself, who

drove in at least 500 miles. credit card in hand. to get tim dean back on the road. >> did you help him? >> i drove up there. to come to the rental car. >> did he tell you where he was going? what he was doing? >> nope. i don't ask questions. i don't care. >> honestly, i assumed it was for work. >> okay. >> he works for frito-lay now. so he travels all the damn time. >> the more she talked, the more radioactive she became as a suspect. >> i got around saturday night, i think. >> how long, how long is that? >> about five hours for me. >> holy cow. >> that's awful nice. >> he filled up my gas tank. >> better as he would've. >> so i was like, last resort, i was like ask anybody else that you can because i don't

feel like coming america after work. i don't feel like -- for you. i don't feel. what if i get stranded. but i kind of feel like, you know what -- you. >> no i understand. >> karma, it comes around. >> but charlene didn't seem like somebody who would do a big favor for the man who had essentially ruined her life, by causing her custody of the kids. they cut to the chase. >> did you have anything to do with him shooting josh and amber? >> no. >> did you put him up to it? >> no. >> i'm seeing a woman in her twenties, who is actually trying to convince a police officer. an experienced police officer. much like a teenager word, that her story is real. and watching her interview. it does not believable. >> all right, i got a couple things, that are not driving that i want to talk to you about specifically. >> they were about to turn of the heat. >> before i do that, we're gonna read miranda rights. >> coming up! >> i had just lost my kids. i said, you know what, i can't

deal with. it's i can't deal with a depression, and the sadness anymore. i need my kids. my kids in my life. and, he looked at me and he was like. what do we do? >> a desperate mom. how deep did this plot go? >> i didn't think it was going to happen. i blame myself for everything. >> when dateline continues! have to put your mind to it and fight. subject 2: it doesn't feel good because you can't play outside with other children. subject 3: as a parent, it is your job to protect your family. but here is something that i cannot do. i cannot fix this. i don't know if my daughter is going to be able to walk. i don't know if she's going to make it till tomorrow. [music playing] interviewer: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital. families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. subject 4: childhood cancer, there's no escaping it. but st. jude is doing the work, continually researching towards cures, giving more than just my child a chance at life.

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charlene had done her vet-best to bat it all away,us. bat it all away. those investigative details that seem to tie her to josh and embers murders. >> where do after that? >> but the detectives grilled her deep into the night. >> it was 1:30 in the morning. i had about two hours asleep, in two days. and, all i could think about was getting home to my children. >> did you ever get back to them? >> now. >> that was it wasn't it? >> yes. >> never saw them again, because she arlene started to spell. >> watch and listen now as she gives it up.

the story that she told us is much the same as the story she would eventually tell the authorities. how she became a killer. >> i blame myself for everything. >> charlene says it started after that august court hearing in new york state where she lost custody of her kids. she and tim brought a long drive back to texas when she came undone. >> i had just lost my kids, at least for the school year. and i said, you know what, i can't deal with this. i can't deal with a depression in the sadness anymore. i need my kids. my kids are my life. and, he looked at me and he's like, what we do? >> charlene had the answer. >> i was like, he's gotta go. he's gotta go. >> so you say to tim we've got to do something and what does he say back to you? >> okay. >> okay? i will kill him. is that what you understood him to say? >> he said okay. >> did you realize that you had crossed the line there? >> not at the time, because it was just talk. >> this is the moment that you became the architect of a murder. >> yeah.

but at the time i didn't think it was going to happen. >> maybe not right then and there. but after visiting her children in new york. two months later. the wheels in her head were still turning. >> my son is falling his eyes out to me saying how he hated up here, he wants to come home with me, he wants me to steal him away and that hit me. it was, anyone who knows my son knows that he doesn't just fall his eyes out like that. >> did this put you back in that place where you had that conversation back when? >> yes. >> she says when she returned home to texas, as she told her husband him that it was showtime. >> i'm telling him that, you know, now it needs to be done. >> and what needs to be done is josh needs to be killed?

>> yes. >> and tim is gonna be the agent of bringing that off? >> yes. >> he's gonna be the killer? >> yes. >> that missiles often going at this point isn't it? >> yes. >> you've lit the fuse? >> yes. >> so they planned it in that garage. yes, charlene was there to. she, tim, and his friend ron were working out the logistics of the murder plot. ron agreed to rent the car, tim would drive it to new york. >> what was his understanding of what was going on and what he, you are asking him to do? >> to go out to new york to handle business. >> so he says, i'm good for that? >> yes. >> what is the understanding

between you and tim about what is afoot at this point? >> i thought he was gonna draw up. kill josh, and come back. >> charlene, that makes you a murder. do you realize that? you have commission this. the gun is in your hand, every bit as much as it is when you say go do this thing. where in it together. do you get that? >> yes i do. >> so what are, your what are your words to tim when he heads out? >> that i love him. >> she still loved him, their broken marriage wasn't so broken, the divorce talk was just part of a plan to win the children back. and so her husband, former chief of police of sun ray texas. began the journey north. with his bag full of guns. then came the hiccup that car accident in kansas. >> he called me had for him. says, i wrecked the rental car. >> and what are you supposed to do? get him a fresh set of wheels? >> i tried.

>> you guys well know how law enforcement works. >> yes. >> you're on the record, this would be a great thing to called this off? maybe assigned this wasn't meant to be? we try to go to new york, ended up in a ditch in kansas? but you go up there. what do you do? >> i picked him up from the motel and i drove him to an airport. so he could rent a vehicle. >> on the go. part two. plan is on. did you give him encouragement? >> not really encouragement. but i gave him the debit card, and, credit cards if he needs a. and,. >> here's your new ride. go to new york and kill the father of my children? >> yes. >> fresh eileen, there was no turning back. she drove back home to texas and waited. >> how do you find out? >> i got home from work on monday the 22nd of october. i saw the news articles of shootings in sodas. >> so according to her own words, charlene talked her husband into murder. a skillful manipulation. now she had been caught, which she tried to manipulate the system as well? coming up. >> she is a master manipulator. >> that made me sick to my stomach. >> taking us for a bunch of passes. >> could charlene strike one more deal? >> you realize how much misery

you've caused, charlie. to so many human beings? how many families are destroyed? because you wanted to have what you wanted to have? do you have any memories for that? >> tons. >> i gotta say, it doesn't really show. i don't know how it was a look, but i don't think i'm seeing it. >> when dateline continues! would make her skin so uncomfortable. now i'm staying ahead of it. dupixent helps heal your skin from within. so, they can have clearer skin and less itch. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your doctor about dupixent. (bridget) with thyroid eye disease i hid from the camera. your doctor. and i wanted to hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d. was beyond help...

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weeks after josh and amber or guntown in their driveway, charlene and her husband him or charged in their murders. josh and amber's parents weren't exactly surprised by the news, but that did not make it any easier to take. >> it made me sick to my stomach. she sat with us at the whole week, with a grieving family. >> taking us for a bunch of -- >> going to josh and amber's vigil, going to their funeral services. >> saying all the right things that people say in those situations? >> right, and then to find out she was the one that participated in the killing. it made me sick. and it's, like who could even do that? >> it is almost like compounding lee awful. >> yes. >> she hugs, me should help me she is so sorry for everything. >> and knowing what you know -- now >> yes, i can't wash that off me. >> not to mention, the show she

put on at the vigil. >> she has now made it to where my kids grow up without -- and that is nothing a could should ever have to do. >> and she said, i hope there's justice. i hope justice to served. >> what do you think about that conduct? >> i think she's a narcissist. i think she made herself believe she had nothing to do with it, to have a straight face during the whole thing. she was part of us, and she was not. >> that is really monstrous behavior. there is the crime of itself of setting in motion, but then it is another thing of, coming right to these people's homes and, say i'm so sorry for your loss and you are responsible for the loss. it is a horrible thing. how could you do that? >> it was hard. >> the families were also disgusted by tim, how could a police chief suddenly become a stone cold killer? >> they did not even know my son.

and to come up here, drive thousands of miles, and shoot him? for what? >> assistant district attorney christine cohen says, not for what, but for whom. the described as a master manipulator, special manipulative skills. >> absolutely. she always utilized men in her life. she utilized tim to kill josh. she was in two active relationships throughout the case. she was still writing letters to timothy dean, professing he was the love of her life. but then also, casey miller visited her 60 times at the jail. >> charlene and tim or potentially facing life in prison as their trials approached. the dea wondered if they were turn on one another at trial. >> her statements to believe and upping admissible, at that point her attorney reaches out, and wants to talk about her coming to the table and cooperating. >> but could she be trusted? >> i did not think should be

able to tell the truth. she is a master manipulator. so i came into that thinking it was not going to work out. she would do the one thing she has always done throughout the case, and that is protect herself and what is best for her. >> so the dea was skeptical as they cut charlene a deal, pleading guilty to manslaughter and exchange for telling the truth, and nothing but the truth to a jury. >> so she is a wildcard going into trial? >> absolutely. at this point, i don't know if she's going to stick to the agreement and come through, and testify, and actually sit on a stand in public and admit to what she had done. >> even without charlene the case against him dean or strong. his dna was found in that ski mask of the police -- a block from the murders. and the police did never shot down the gun, they think it came from where else? the department where tim used to work. >> what is believed as it was taken from the police

department? >> when she took the stand, charlene did lay it all out for the jury. how she dispatched her husband on a mission to kill josh. and it played out more or less as she had hoped, except for one important detail. she says she never wanted amber to die. >> she was not supposed to be involved at all. >> it would have been okay if josh is dead? because that was the plan? >> it was the plan, yes. okay, no. it still was a shock that it actually happened. yes it was planned to happen. >> it was planned by eu? >> yes. >> you liked the squirrel? you thought she was a good surrogate mom for your kids? >> yes. >> there she is with a gun right up against the back of her year, blow her brains out? your guy, on your orders? >> no. those were not my orders. she was never in the plans, ever. >> at trial, charlene's

credibility was an easy target for tim's defense attorney. >> she is a walking, talking, contradiction of herself. she took, i don't know if he is capable of telling the truth. >> with a tenth phone please stand? >> in the end, her story was too evil, too cold to dismiss. it took the jury just four hours to convict timothy dean of double murder. >> we the jury find the defendant guilty. >> we all knew what it was going to be, but still, we were so relieved to hear that first, you know, strong guilty verdict. >> tim was sentenced to life in prison. ron buller got -- for second degree conspiracy. and charlene is serving 28 years. when county district attorney mike, -- >> in the final analysis, tim

dean is the one who pulled the trigger. we felt the proper and resolution is the shoreline was appropriated under the circumstances. >> 28 years is plenty of time for charlene if she chooses to think about all of the carnage she unleashed. >> do you realize how much misery have cost to some human beings in the course of this? >> yes. >> how many families are destroyed? because he wanted to have what you want to have? do you have any remorse for that? >> tons. >> i have to say, it doesn't really show. i don't know how remorse this impulse to, look but i don't think i see it. you seem to be okay with what has happened. >> on the, outside maybe. >> what happened to you? >> i made by choices. i regret them every single day. >> near the end of our interview, charlene stepped away, and spoke to an attorney. >> i need a break. >> she returned to her chair,

more emotional this time. >> what do you tell people who pretty quickly call you a monster? just flat out evil? >> i am a human being. i make mistakes. this was ultimately the biggest mistake i have ever done. i'm sorry more than i can express. every day, it runs through me. >> and your predictive mid now, that will not get you as much as an extra baloney sandwich. >> i know what i did was wrong, and i know sorry is not good, enough and it will never be good enough. >> both amber and josh's families are trying to put this all behind them now. if not for their own sake, for the children involved. >> they are the light of all of our lives. >> josh's sister nicole gained custody of josh and charlene's two kids. >> they are your babies now?

>> they are my babies. i don't know what i would do without them. >> and amber's parents made a home for that little boy who witnessed it all, the boy in the backseat. josh junior. >> this little guy has been our god some, without, him i don't know how we would have made it through. josh is literally the glue that holds this family together right now. >> how are you keeping mbs memory alive for josh junior? >> we have pictures all over the house. you know, every night before he goes to bed, every morning, we all say goodnight to him. grandma and grandpa love him. >> i'm andrea canning. and this is "dateline". >> she said that she met him in a bar. >> she was smitten. she really went all out for him. >> she couldn't see the red flags. >> it was a heartbreaking case.