that they will or won't. the last time he heard from them, he was able to talk to them for all of three minutes. he said they sounded very weak. they have no food, no running water, no medicine, and they are in a room with 60 other people and one bathroom. he is just doing everything he can. there's not really much he can do. he says they are elderly and they can't walk. he is just frantically hoping that he can hear their voice one more time. >> daniel campoamor, thank you for bringing up these stories. we appreciate it. all right, our second hour starts right now, everybody. hey, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. if you are just joining us, welcome. if you are sticking with us, we are thankful for that. we are following breaking news. when israeli soldier killed

inside gaza comes as the idea prepares for a ground invasion of the region already reeling from the response to the hamas attack on israel. >> here on the israel was a border, we're continuing the booms of israeli airstrikes coming into israel. you can see the smoke from a rocket which just fell in israeli territory. in gaza, the devastation growing by the hour, the death toll well over 4000. nbc news captured this video inside gaza after a strike destroyed the building where a family was living. she watches rescue crews search in vain for her loved ones, walking two miles to the hospital, finding her mother, father, brother, his wife, and five children all killed. she says, what can i do know that they are gone? >> in a moment, i'm going to speak to a spokesman for the israeli military about the idea of soldier killed in gaza.

it's coming amid new efforts to get aid into gaza. antony blinken vows to continue to push for more help. >> when i was in israel and throughout the region, as you mentioned a while ago, one of the things i was focused on was making sure that people in gaza, innocent people who were caught through no fault of their own in this cross fire from us, get the assistance they need, whether it's food, medicine, water. >> we are following several other big stories this hour. we are hours away from the next step by house republicans to pick a speaker for a candidate forum on monday starring a whole new list of candidates. face to face, donald trump is expected to be in a manhattan courtroom this week. michael cohen takes the stand against him. we will have a preview of that ahead this hour as well. we want to begin, though, with the death of an idea of soldier. the idf said it happened as the

soldier was conducting raids inside gaza near the border. joining me from tel aviv is msnbc national contributor hala gorani to talk about this. thank you for joining us on this. we appreciate it. i first want to ask you about any more information we are getting about the death of the idea of soldier and the time in as we talk about this impending ground invasion. >> yeah, from what we understand, the soldier was conducting across border operation inside of gaza to try to find people, perhaps even hostages, inside the gaza strip. they were killed by an anti-tank shell on the other side of the border. three others were injured. i want to bring a news in which may be significant as far as the timeline of a ground incursion into gaza. we understand from the israeli prime minister's office what the french president emmanuel macron and the dutch prime

minister mark ritter are due to visit israel on monday and tuesday. this could have an impact on the timeline of an incursion into gaza strip. the israeli military presumably would not mount an assault while foreign leaders are visiting the prime minister benjamin and yahoo in israel. it might give us a bit of a clue as to when we can expect this incursion to start. the prime minister benjamin netanyahu was in the north of the country today, not in the south near the gaza border, and telling troops close to the border were hezbollah operates, saying that the country is facing a battle on two fronts while the iranian foreign minister is warning the u.s. and israel not to escalate the fight.

the iranian foreign minister said that if that is the case the middle east might spiral out of control, yasmin. >> all right, hala gorani for us, thank you. a lot to dig into their. with that, i want to bring in international spokesperson for the israel defense forces lieutenant colonel jonathan conricus. eutenai want to ask you, if we , about the idea of soldier who was killed inside gaza. talking first about the details that you can share with us. i thought it was interesting in the statement that was released by the idf, you said that just one of the operations being carried out in gaza. i'm wondering if you can share how long these missions have been ongoing over the last two weeks since october 7th. >> yes, hello. thank you for having me. i will explain the context. the context, i will explain the operation itself and the sad result of it. since october 7th, when hamas

invaded into israel and slaughtered civilians, butchered and burned and all of the atrocities we have seen and spoken about, they also took hostages. we have 210, 212 confirmed hostages. what we have been doing on the tactical military level, it is not hostage operations. that's not what we are doing. we are doing tactical operations into the closed perimeter of the gaza strip in order to find intelligence and, sadly, parts or bodies. the carnage was so widespread and significant, we still have more than 100 israeli bodies that are simply unaccounted for that we cannot identify and we have a long list of people that we still do not know if they are dead, missing, or if they are being held hostage by hamas

inside gaza. this unfortunately resulted in a dead israeli soldier. it's part of our effort to better understand where our people are. it is part of the bigger effort to collect intelligence from various sources. that's ongoing in israel. the ultimate aim is to bring our people home, all of those women, children, babies, elderly people, disabled people who are now being held against their will in gaza. the aim is, of course, to bring them home. >> colonel, can you confirm if you have eyes on or intelligence on where these people are being held? >> i can confirm that it is a top priority and that we have a national task force which is poulin all of the intelligence election resources that the state of israel has. that is quite a lot. who is being held where and by

whom and at what location? how can we get them out? it's an operational and humanitarian challenges like we have never faced before. i'm not sure that any country has faced such a challenge when so many of its citizens are held under a terrorist organization. we are confident and committed that we can get all of them out by whatever means necessary. it is a challenge that definitely requires special resources and special thinking. >> with the confirmation that french president emmanuel macron is going to be coming to israel, has that changed the timeline of a potential ground incursion by the idf? >> right. the issue of our continued operations in gaza, they have been a talking point for many days now. i would like to explain. when any military plans operations, you have to take

many different physical circumstances as to soil and terrain, the state of the enemy, in your own forces, and diplomatic and political considerations. all of these are factored in. no matter who is visiting or what is happening in global news, the idf as guided for the war cabinet will commence military operations once the timing is right for israel, once the best of the variables is found they can launch the second stage of the operations. the aim here is clear. we are going to go in and dismantle hamas. we are going to take all of the military capabilities and fundamentally change the security situation in southern israel so that never again will the atrocities of october 7th reoccur. >> what is the plan after you dismantle hamas, colonel? which orders have you been

given after you dismantle hamas when it comes to govern in gaza? >> i wish that was as easily done as you and i are just now talking. i say dismantle and it would be done. unfortunately, that's not the situation. we are looking at what we anticipate will be a long, difficult, and resource intense operation. we are going to be fighting in urban terrain against the civilian population and using everything at its disposal, especially civilians, in order to fight us. at the stage, what we are focused on is first and foremost that they dismantle hamas and any other military infrastructure in gaza and, of course, the discourse between the political cabinet and the idf will continue. whatever is decided, we will implement that. the first order of the day's to

return security for the people in southern israel and actually for southern israel because we've been under rocket threats and attacks for more than 14 days now coming out of gaza. that has to end. the threat from gaza for the civilians has to end. >> colonel, i know that on october 7th there were many women that were killed. the death toll seems like it is about 4600 people, many of them women and children who have lost their lives because of israeli rocket fire -- how do you explain that? >> yes, i don't want to create any parity. and human suffering is suffering, whether it's ours or theirs. the only thing i can say is that we definitely don't target civilians. we try to strike militants, contrary to what the subhuman

terrorists, these i.s.i.s. monstrous that came across the border did, they specifically targeted our women and children and elderly and men and soldiers, but specifically the civilians. out of 1300, more than 1300 and israelis, more than 1000 are civilians which is, that is by design. we are not targeting the civilians. unfortunately, the civilians are in the battle space. we are doing our best to get them out of harm's way. we have called on them to evacuate. those who listen to us have a much better chance of safety. those who do not, unfortunately, they are at risk. we will still try to operate according to the laws of our country and distinguish between combatants and non combatants. >> try to operate in the laws of armed conflict. you talk about many of the civilians who have died being in the battle space. you are urging, i know,

palestinians in gaza to move south. 700,000 or so have now subsequently moved south. however, israel is still launching rocket fire in southern gaza as well. people don't feel safe there even being told by the idf, though, to move south. >> i understand that they don't feel safe. i think that they're feeling is sadly correct. the situation in gaza is that hamas uses all of the civilian infrastructure today. we just issued aerial footage of how close hamas is firing rockets from kindergartens, schools, and you end, facilities and medical facilities. all of that is documented. we just released footage of it. hamas endangered civilians by their operations. they have tunnels underneath the civilian population and their leaders, which we are actively hunting, are trying to use human shields to protect themselves. that is the biggest contributor

to the sad reports of casualties. i want to say one more thing when it comes to data coming out of gaza. please keep in mind that everything that comes out of gaza is not verified independently. it's information disseminated by hamas and hamas is the equivalent of i.s.i.s. when it comes to truthfulness. >> colonel are you disputing the number of people that have been killed in gaza, the number of women and children? are you disputing that and saying it's not accurate? >> i am definitely questioning each and every piece of information that comes out of the hamas-controlled ministry of health. each and every piece of information -- i will give you an example. the first reports -- >> many of these are being reported by independent journalists that are in the region as well. >> let me give an example.

i think it will be useful. the first reports also reported here on msnbc, but in many other media outlets quoting the hamas run health ministry and gaza. they said 500 dead palestinians in the hospital incident in gaza. do you know how many people were actually killed? the eu estimates that it was a between ten and 50. the 500 is what the hamas-controlled authority said. most of the international media fell for that and reported it. it gave credibility to a false number disseminated by a terrorist organization. that is why i say that we should all exercise caution and skepticism when we get these figures, especially when they speak about civilians, women, and children. those are the things that they will try to harvest. that is what they are trying to achieve. that picture of -- that pictu >> many of these reports are

being reported by pictures being taken by independent journalists, who are risking their lives every day. they are reporting on what is happening inside of gaza. i think we can both admit the innocent civilians are losing their lives. children are in fact losing their lives in gaza as well. i want to ask you another question before i let you go. i know that you do have a busy day ahead of you. a leaflet anaerobic obtained by an msnbc news producer in gaza, translated by two nbc staffers warn that those remain in northern gaza would be considered either a partner or accomplice of a terrorist organization. the idf now claims that, quote, the translation from arabic that has spread across platforms is in precise. to clarify, the idf has no intention of considering those who have yet to evacuate as a member of a terrorist group. the idf, stating once again for the safety of gazan civilians that they should evacuate to the south. all those that remain are endangering themselves due to the hamas's terrorist activities within civilian areas. however, colonel, just

yesterday, your defense minister says that israel will remove its, quote, responsibility for life in the gaza strip. that is in direct contrast to the statement put out by the idf from my translation of what he said. but >> i think that there is a lot of room for interpretation here. but i'm not entirely sure that that is the intention. i do think the intention of what the minister said is that our responsibility, our focus will be on providing life and security for our civilians. they were butchered, they were slaughtered in their homes. they live in a situation which is totally untenable. we can't have our communities under the sort of hamas and be with these continuous threats for them to live there. it can't go on. when we speak about our responsibility towards our people, it is to make sure that the 7th of october never

happens again. not along that border, not along any of our other borders. that's your primary responsibility. of course, the idf, and this is been studied by the chief of general staff, we will continue to fight according to the lives of conflict. we will distinguish between combatants and non-combatant. we are doing that factually, provably, by trying to move people out of the area. we are telling them, listen, it's dangerous, don't be there. hamas is using you as human shields. if you care about your safety, and not about hamas survival, be somewhere else. go south of gaza it's an area where we can strike. if the gaza commanders are there, and we have an opportunity to strike a commander, we will also strike south of the gaza river. definitely, the bane focus of our operations is in the north. that's why we ask palestinians out of concern for their safety, and risk of our troops. now we have advertised our

intentions. military unusually do. we do have them. because we want the civilians out. because we do distinguish, and we do care about civilians. yeah >> colonel, i lied, i have one more question. as you talk about, this i just had a reporter on, and independent reporter on who was speaking to a man in los angeles whose parents are stuck in gaza city. they can't leave. they can't move anywhere from where they are. they are old, they are injured. they don't have the resources, they don't have the medicine they need, they don't have the food they need, they don't even have the water they need. should they worry that they might be casualties of war when this ground invasion happens? but >> this might sound cynical, but i will say it anyway. do you know who also is old, wounded, worried, held against his will without his medicine and in a enemy --

our hostages in gaza. women, children, toddlers, elderly people, holocaust or virus. they're being held against their will as hostages in gaza by hamas and other terrorists. they were taken from their homes. while i feel for these people and i wish them the best, our primary focus is to get our people home and to significantly change the security situation. we can't allow this unsustainable situation to continue. hamas is the aggressor here. we did not start this war. we are responding to it. the massacre of october 7th wasn't our doing. it was our doing, their military failure. at the end of the day, hamas has to be gone from the gaza strip. no military capabilities to be left in gaza for them to be quiet, peace, prosperity, on both sides of the border. this will be a good thing for gaza. first and foremost, for us, we will live in a sovereign country, defendable borders,

and there will be the laughter of children again in kibbutz, -- and there will be prosperity in gaza once hamas is gone. this isn't a bad thing. the world should look at this, yes, there is suffering, difficulty, hardship, i understand that. i understand the focus. what the world is focusing on. look beyond that. hamas has been holding the poor citizens of gaza hostage for almost 20 years. what have they done? have they built anything good? has any prosperity come out of it? rockets, war, murder, bloodshed, corruption, and fat bank accounts of hamas seniors living good lives in qatar and other places. and civilians are suffering. now our civilians are butcher. that is the only thing that hamas has brought, everything happening now in gaza is because of hamas actions. they bear responsibility. we are simply defending ourselves and our sovereign right to do so. that's our duty towards the

civilians, just like any other country if they were attacked by such a brutal attack that we have heard on the end of october. >> idf, lieutenant colonel, thank you so much, sir. >> thank you for having me. >> joining us now, david rohde, senior executive editor for national security, with nbc news to talk about what is happening on the ground in israel. david, if you will, i hear i'm sure you heard our conversation with the colonel from the idf. talk to us about what you just heard. >> i feel for the civilians on both sides. it was a hamas attack that prompted the reaction, but some of our colleagues at nbc have been talking to palestinians in gaza. they fear, and some will bluntly say that they are frightened of hamas. -- the concern about palestinians is that they will be driven out

of northern gaza, and never be able to return. again, given the loss on all sides here, all the history here which they fear, many people are outside of the parts of israel, decades ago. there is a sense that there will be no long term solution, that they might never be able to return to north gaza. you ask a fair question, which is what happens after this israeli military operation? but what if hamas is basically severely weakened as a force? who governs gaza? that is an unanswered question that the israeli government hasn't answered, u.s. government hasn't answered, and i think that it is a critical one to be answered in the days ahead. but >> i think that it is a question that they do not necessarily have an answer to, within many people have been speaking to inside of the administration. it seems that israel doesn't necessarily have an answer to

that question as for what happens next, which might be in part partial why the ground invasion has not necessarily happened yet. i want to talk about some of the new reporting when we talk about a broader war here. the potential for that happening. we are seeing that happen, action happening in the north right now on the israeli lebanon border. we know the prime minister benjamin netanyahu is in the north as well. you have new reporting on this as well. especially as it pertains to iran's proxies. i know that we've had some reporting saying that iran does not want or is not looking for a broader conflict. we know that they fund hamas. they fund hezbollah as well. talk about the potential for this to actually happen, and what that would look like. >> as you said, the worst-case scenario is a two front war. this is iran, iran has funded and armed and trained hamas for years in gaza. and in the north, in lebanon.

they've been funded and trained hezbollah for years. they have had far larger arsenals of rockets. it's supposed that there's up to 100,000 hezbollah rockets in southern lebanon which could be fired into northern israel and central israel. the big issue here is, will iran unleash hezbollah on this conflict? if an and really israeli ground invasion begins and hamas, everyone will be watching to see -- in gaza, excuse me, everyone will be seeing what happens with hezbollah in northern israel. the u.s. has sent these two carrier groups to send a message to iran. i think there is back channeling going on, telling the iranian government to not engage in northern israel, to let this proceed in gaza. nobody knows, frankly, what will happen. if it does happen, you could have a wider regional war. >> david rohde, thank you so much. we appreciate you. coming up next, everybody, the new candidates that want to take a shot at speaker, as the

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[ cheers ] yeah! woho! running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into >> welcome back. when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. we learned a few hours ago, the new list of republicans becoming the next speaker of the house. as the field contenders are now down to nine, there are still questions about whether any can garner enough support to win. here's what kevin mccarthy said earlier today on meet the press. >> it's embarrassing for the republican party, embarrassing for the nation. we need to look at stalled in problem. >> and if they can't get the votes, would you rule out running for speaker again? trying to get your job back? -- >> i don't need the title. all help in every way that i

count. -- >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us. give us your reaction to what we just heard from the former speaker, kevin mccarthy. and your expectations for this week. >> i am frustrated, -- how is it that they are -- >> arise to nominate jim jordan. >> i'm surprised he's even interested, saying that he wants this result. if he's unwilling to encourage his colleagues to make that compromise with us. it's hypocritical. it is in raging for the entire country to be three weeks without a speaker in the midst of so much on the line for american people. >> do you believe that there is a consensus candidate amongst the nine which have made it clear they are running for speaker? >> i don't think so. i think that's why you hear former speaker mccarthy saying that he's frustrated.

i don't think that any of them are going to be having enough votes to be able to go on tuesday. nine people are now wanting to be considered and nominated as the next speaker. it is frustrating. it makes me want to cry to think that we are in this moment. we were sent to congress to govern, to legislate. this house has been closed for almost three weeks. now we have nine republicans going for the nomination. that's not coalescing in bringing people together, it's fully dividing the republican congress. demonstrating to us that they are not even really serious about the speakership. serious about the speaker means that there will be coalescing around one or two, certainly not jim jordan. certainly that wouldn't be the case. but nine people, how does that get us any closer to the house opening? >> you are one of 13 house democrats did wanted to sign a

two page resolution spearheaded by congresswoman cori bush, i believe, calling for a cease-fire. urging the president to de-escalate. you posted this on x. we have to need to collectively recognize how we are moving towards a terrible future the repeat the mistakes of the past. there is still time to learn from history and change our trajectory. a cease-fire is a means to do just that. have you heard anything from the white house on us? >> yes, we have had a number of meetings with them. one of the things that i did a couple of days after that, i sent a letter to the state department, a number of questions that have not been answered. for example, there are over there are a number of americans that cannot get out. 500 americans with their families they can't get out. as we talk about this 500 americans, talking about the hostages in gaza. we understand that unless we get that situation, we are going to be losing those

americans. their families, their children, right now they are in a moment of desperation, asking has america forgotten about me? those bombings aren't going to be protecting me. i believe the u.s. as a superpower that it is as the influence, the power, the ability to help process dialogue of diplomacy, and it's going to get us to a cease-fire. we can't bomb our -- we are not going to get to pace, continuing to spend more money for missiles at the expense of so many innocent civilians in gaza, in the west bank, and in israel. >> quickly here, do you think that anymore democrats are going to be wanting to get on board with this call for a cease-fire? >> i think that you are going to see that this will continue to grow. initially, we started with 13 of us. it's my understanding that we have about 17 members of congress know that have now added, including congressman

maxwell frost from florida. congresswoman perrella jay appalled from washington, and a few others. you are seeing them all around the country, all around the world. we are seeing that we want to stabilize the region. we want to learn from 9/11, we saw the expansion of -- and really destabilizing the region, but causing and ending of wars in that region. we cannot do the same thing them. we have to learn from it. the only way that we do that is actually advertising diplomacy. it is de-escalating the situation, it is seizing fire and getting us more humanitarian made into gaza. but in a position, where the u.s. and other international leaders can help the process, and avoid to de-escalate and get a cease-fire. this is the only way we are going to be saving lives. children, seniors, mothers, fathers, in this moment. >> congresswoman of illinois,

thank you so much. tonight, by the way, alexandria ocasio-cortez joins mehdi hasan for the biden's response on the israel-hamas war, and there continued search for a speaker. the mehdi hasan show begins eight eastern on msnbc. coming, up the latest information on the effort to get more aid into gaza. humanitarian organizations are saying that it's not nearly enough. we will spoke -- talk with omar shakir from the human rights watch. that's next. at's next. (all) ♪ toooo youuuuu! ♪ (sean) i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? it's so light. don't touch it. maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan -- switch to verizon and get iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) what!? (jason) yup, and on an amazing network (sean) and i don't have to ruin anymore birthday parties! (jason) yeah, that ship has sailed...

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right now, a convoy of seven additional trucks, position that egypt's side of the rafah border crossing to move into gaza. the point for the special envoy, humanitarian issues, speaking exclusively to our colleague and friend on the status of that much needed relief. take a listen. >> our expectation and substance of our discussion with all sides has been starting tomorrow. you will be seeing a continuous flow of assistance moving. we want to build that flow up to the net levels necessary to begin to meet guises needs. a key point to make, here president biden made that quite directly. this is for the illegitimate needs of the people in gaza. if hamas interferes with, seizes, or diverts assistance, it will as a practical matter, make it very difficult for that assistance to continue, and

will be another demonstration of their lack of concern for the welfare of palestinian people. >> i want to ask you about that as well, just for clarity, because this is important for people to understand. 15 additional trucks, -- is that correct? and then continuous, does that mean a convoy -- tonight with the 15, and you're hoping to get to those convoys regularly. tonight. >> israel and palestine, director of human rights watch -- 50% of information for palestinians, food, water, medicine, able to make it across the rafah border. now you have more supplies on standby at the border as well. talk to us about the needs, how do shi if and when this grand

invasion -- they're essentially starving in gaza right now. >> we have a humanitarian disaster. we're not at the brink of, one it's a man-made disaster, it's not a national disaster, it's a policy by the israeli government to seal these crossings and cut off the supply of water, of electricity, well all of the focus in the discourse has been squeezing a few more trucks in to the rafah crossing. israel continues to not flip the switch for electricity to keep that tap water dry, to cut off humanitarian aid. we have a situation now where 2.2 million people have been for more than two weeks, with other medicine, food, water, -- many of them are not able to operate without fuel for the generators. families are relying on water,

you are hearing reports from human agencies about all kinds of diarrhea, chicken, pox using that water, not having these trucks are not meeting a fraction of the palestinian population. as a result result of 16 years -- we are in a very dire situation. a lot is hanging in the balance. much more dramatic but -- >> how do you ensure that hamas doesn't get its hands on these supplies? it doesn't take advantage? doesn't interfere with these resources, the supplies, getting to the palestinians that desperately need them. >> look, this argument used by ambassador satterfield, it's a bit of a mystery act, humanitarian organizations have been working in gaza given the protracted nature of the occupation.

and it's a closure for many years. we are looking at entry of water, but water, food, medicine. these kinds of things. these arguments that those are going to be diverted for the use of hamas, simply the mr. act. let's remember that israel says this war is about hamas. we have a situation where 1.4 million people, the majority of the population is displaced. 42% of the homes according to local authorities have been damaged, were destroyed. we have had a situation where more than 4600 palestinians have been killed, according to local authorities. including more than 4800 children, 900 women. they say this is a war about hamas, but in reality, israel's actions show it's a war on the people of gaza. what are you most worried about the looming ground invasion. . >> i am worried about mass atrocities. i don't think we can be more alarmist here. the we have not in the, the moderna story of israel

palestine, seeing carnage in bloodshed at this level. human rights has documented, for years, for decades, israeli governments unlawful use of force, deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructures. pointing out entire families, high-rise buildings, no apparent military targets in the area in the west bank, this year so far before october 7th, we saw more killings of palestinians than any other year since the u.n. began reporting fatalities we are really at risk of large scale atrocities. there is a need for the world to act to prevent that. >> omar shakir, thank you so much. appreciate. coming up next, everybody, face to face in courtroom showdown on tuesday. michael cohen takes the stand, in a manhattan courtroom with his former boss donald trump, expected to be in the front row watching. a preview of, that coming up next. coming up next they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure.

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can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. welcome back, everybody. former president trump and his many lawyers have a whole lot on their plate when it comes to all of the cases trump must face. this coming week, team trump is bracing for michael cohen's appearance in court on tuesday. new york state business fraud suit against the trump corporation. within just a few months, more trials are s to begin, as you see on your screen there. e. jean carrl's defamation trial is set fornuary. then we have new york state criminal trial over hushmoney payments to stormy daniels and marcia just a few months later in may. the special counsels classified doc's case said to begin in federal court. want to bring in jordan reuben,

court msnbc writer for deadline illegal block. former prosecutor the district attorney's office in manhattan. jordan, thanks for joining on this. appreciate this. let's start with michael cohen. we have seen is testimony delayed due to his health. cohen says he's gonna be there in two days time. what are expectations of this testimony? >> to set the stage a bit, this is really coming full circle. remember, it was after michael cohen's prior congressional testimony the attorney general letitia james launched this lawsuit that wound up leading to all of this. so, it's really coming full circle, the person who started it all in a way. we know the relationship going back with michael cohen and donald trump, which obviously is now soured. you know that there's no love lost their. we know in that prior testimony, michael cohen mentioned how trump would manipulate the value of his assets of his worth. to serve his own purposes.

we're gonna supposedly see michael cohen testify to that under oath this week. >> so, as cohen is set to appear, we know the former president was also fined $5, 000, i believe, for violating the gag order. you actually wrote about that saying, even if this fund is relatively paltry, it has the merit of being a consequence for trump, and going forward, the judge may not hesitate to lock him up. do you think the judge would go as far as to lock up the former president? >> i think if trump continues on the path that he has started, that the judge would take that step. the judge was apparently furious with the former president, that's what led him to impose this, obviously for someone of trump's reported worth, relatively meager fine. that wouldn't be nothing for a normal person. you look at that you think, well, $5,000. what's that. what it does, yasmin, it sets the stage, because in the

judges order, he says explicitly, there's gonna be far more serious consequences, including possible imprisonment. so, it does, in one sense, seem like we're forever in the cycle of the next thing is going to be the consequence that hits trump. now, we're in a sort of version of that again. with the judge saying that explicitly, and in order. we are on a bit of new terrain in that respect. >> i want to talk georgia for a moment as well. we saw sydney powell, kenneth chesebro, striking those plea deals, essentially as you put, it they had distinct aspects in the broader plot to stay in power after losing the 2020 election. can you expand on what those distinct aspects are? >> sure. chesebro is credited in a bad way with being the so-called architect of the fake elector scheme, or at least one of them anyway from a legal perspective. sydney powell, if you look at the indictment, she was heavily involved in this distinct coffee county election scheme

that involved a breach of voting systems there. as laid out in the indictment, she had this direct contact with than former president trump as well. so, they covered a lot of different ground, that's what was, we actually, when they were set to be tried with one another, they didn't want to be tried together. they were complaining to the judge, essentially, our charges have nothing to do with each other. it would not be fair for us to be tried together. that claim was rejected. then set to go forward together before they pleaded. that underscores the different grounds that they might cover. >> jordan, real quick here. in talking about the special counsel as well, the former president saying he is absolutely immune for prosecution. as former president -- jack smith's team submit to that erin burr. his own remarks on his 2021 impeachment trial for allegedly

inciting the january 6th insurrection comment on this quickly for me if you can. >> it's trump saying he's above the law. that's what it comes down to. that's the special counsel's argument. from the government's view, judge chutkan will have to buy that in order to entertain. >> jordan reuben, thank you so, much sir. appreciate it. that wraps up for me, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian, i'll be back next saturday and sunday two pm eastern. symone starts after very quick break. eak.

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