but with these doctors witnessing every day is the massive impact those strikes are having on palestinian civilians. >> this war is different in terms of the type of ordinance used has a much bigger incendiary component to it. >> reporter: the walls of al shifa hospital cannot speak. but they carry the echoes of the most brutal, often unspeakable moments of war, if the world listens. >> nbc's ellison barber with that reporting. heart breaking reality of war. that does it for us today. thanks for joining us. we're back tomorrow, same time, same place. until then, i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. thanks for being with us. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we're just an hour away from the

house floor opening, with now a fourth republican nominee for speaker. this time it is congressman mike johnson of louisiana. and he says he has the votes to win. overseas, we're following breaking developments out of israel. the u.n. warning it may be forced to stop operating in gaza today as fuel runs out. some world leaders intensifying their calls for a cease-fire. plus, forecasters warn of a, quote, nightmare scenario after a cat 5 hurricane slams into mexico's southern pacific coast overnight, near the popular resort city of acapulco. it went from a tropical storm to a cat 5 in just 12 hours. we begin this hour on capitol hill, where next hour lawmakers are expected to vote once again for a speaker of the house. louisiana congressman mike johnson is now the fourth gop pick in three weeks. the second in just one day. after tom emmer dropped out

yesterday when it became clear he could not secure enough votes. a visual reminder of how congress found themselves in leadership crisis. 22 days after his ousting, former speaker kevin mccarthy's sign was removed overnight, leaving a blank wall. joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali and former republican congressman carlos curbelo, an msnbc political analyst. so, ali, just this morning, senator collins, susan collins was asked what it would be like to work with mike johnson on spending issues. she said she plans to google him. who is mike johnson? >> reporter: i think there has been a lot of googling in this building, jose, as we and the rest of congress wait to see if there is going to be a new name on the wooden panel above the speaker's office, because you're right, we finally saw mccarthy's name taken off the wall, in anticipation of the fact that republicans at least right now feel good about the fact that

when they go to the floor in less than an hour, they will be on the path to electing a new speaker. now, nothing is for sure. that's what this process has taught us time and time again, especially given yesterday. we started the day thinking that tom emmer was the man to beat and certainly at one point he was, but now that title goes to mike johnson, the four-term congressman from louisiana, he represents sort of the northwest area of the state around shreveport. and he is someone who is really a conservative through and through. maybe not as publicized or as talkative about the work he's doing on fox news as some of his colleagues, but he serves on some of the most important committees here and especially those that toss a fair amount of red meat at the republican base, specifically the judiciary committee, where they have been doing a lot of the investigations into president joe biden and his son hunter, but also the so-called weaponization of government committee that was created at the start of this congress. that's something that is chaired by jim jordan, but johnson serves on both of those.

and he is someone who, as people are googling, one of the key things we're looking ahead to is how he dealt with the 2020 election. he voted to decertify the election results. but as a constitutional lawyer by trade, by background, he's also someone who created some of the early rational for why the false electors scheme could work. it is not constitutional. but many of his colleagues here in the republican house relied on his thinking about that, when they themselves voted against certifying the 2020 election results when donald trump lost the white house. those are some key things, but we're also looking ahead to the ways that he might deal with some of the most impending crises that will face whoefr whoever comes next as speaker, how he might deal with an israel package, especially if that's paired with aid to ukraine. he's someone who voted against the two past aid packages to ukraine, that might be instructive for the way he sees this issue as speaker.

and also the way he might deal on the government funding and government shutdown front. just a few weeks ago, we know that republicans and democrats alike voted to keep the government open, and in many ways that kicked off the trail of events that led us to this place of needing to elect a new speaker. johnson was one of those who voted against that continuing resolution, which is to say he did not vote to keep the government open. he's now put out to his colleagues a new piece of paper that kind of outlines his view of how they could move forward on the appropriations front. i think that's going to be really important as that november 17th shutdown deadline continues to loom, but, again, i think the way we have to think about mike johnson, he's someone who has a lot in common, policy-wise, and in terms of the ethos of the rest of this republican conference, people like jim jordan and steve scalise, but not on fox news talking about it as much. >> so, ali what are the chances he gets those 217 votes on the floor?

>> reporter: it is the only question that we are trying to figure out the answer to, jose. i think all of us are going to learn the answer in real time once we see them get to the floor. we know what this process looks like because i think more people have paid attention to the way the floor works and the way the house elects a speaker both in january and now than ever before. we know that at noon they'll gavel in, we expect mike johnson to walk to the floor. so we will expect to try to at least ask him some questions, though i have to say last night when reporters tried to ask him key questions about the 2020 election and how he might vote and fare on ukraine aid, they were booed by other members of the conference and johnson himself said there should be no policy talk tonight. so, we'll see if we can't get a few policy questions to the man who wants to be in the presidential line of succession and who will be one of the key policy leaders within this republican conference. of course, to get there he needs the votes, we'll see that play out in real time. i do think just by looking at tweets, talking to republican members, the view is that they are close, but close is not the

ball game. any four or five members can tank this thing. we just don't see any signs of those members at least not yet. >> so, carlos, the speakership fight has created such animosity within the republican house members. if, first of all, just thinking your thoughts, do you think johnson is going to be able to do this. if he isn't, what happens going forward? >> well, johnson does have the votes lined up just yet. but members believe that he certainly has a path. because there is so much anger and frustration in the house republican conference, it is actually a benefit or a good trait of mike johnson is a low key member. someone who really hasn't raised his head too often, part of the leadership team, but as ali said, you don't see him constantly on television. he is a hard-line conservative, but he hasn't voted against rules. he hasn't publicly attacked other members of the house gop leadership team. so, in a way, mike johnson is

kind of vanilla in the house republican conference, and that might be the reason why he has the clearest path yet to the speakership. now, having said that, at the meeting where he got elected last night, there are about 20 members who are absent from that meeting, jose. a lot of these are centrist members who are concerned about what mike johnson might do with the appropriations process, what may happen on november 17th. these are members who don't want the government to shut down, so johnson still has some work to do to secure those commitments ahead of this exercise at noon today. >> and, you know, looming over much of this issue is former president trump. yesterday, he was able to essentially sink emmer's campaign, but his endorsement of jordan couldn't get him over the finish line. do you see the trump influence here over the party at the republican party at the house, you know, he's got some victories and some losses. >> yeah, that's right, jose.

there is a paradox. trump tried to elevate jim jordan. he tried to deliver some public pressure from the bully pulpit and it didn't work. there was a strong coalition that was dug in against jordan. certainly trump has veto power. he can call five, six, ten members of the house and ask them to do something and those members will respond and, of course, we know that that many members can block a republican from getting elected speaker. but, again, mike johnson is someone who donald trump probably doesn't even know very well. so, we haven't heard much from trump and certainly no one expects that he's going to try to tank johnson or hurt him in any way. >> ali vitali and carlos curbelo, thank you both so very much. good seeing you. and now to our other top big story this morning, the latest on the devastating conflict in the middle east. the united nations aid agency for palestinian refugees says it will have to stop all operations in gaza as soon as today because its fuel tanks are running dry due to the israeli blockade.

aid trucks have been able to bring in food, water and medical supplies into the enclave, but no fuel. this comes as there could be movement in efforts to free more of the hostages who israel says are being held in gaza. the prime minister of qatar, which played a leading role in efforts to free the hostages, said today that there could be a breakthrough, quote, any moment in time. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel joins us now from jerusalem. richard, how dire is the situation in gaza? >> reporter: well, extremely dire. the u.n. agency responsible for helping the people of gaza, which was established after the 1948 israel war of independence and creation of a palestinian diaspora, refugee population, many of the people in gaza are refugees. they used to live in areas around there, areas now part of israel, ashkelon, ashdod, they

moved into gaza. this agency was set up to look after them. and they have remained there ever since and had families and now two and a half, 2.3 million people who live in gaza. and throughout this war, governed by hamas now, and throughout this war, they have been under attack and also under siege. and some food and water and medicine has been getting in, each one heavily negotiated, each one complicated procedure. but israel is adamant that fuel can't go in because it is considering fuel like a military supply, concern it could get to hamas and be used to help hamas plan more attacks, keep its military campaign going. the u.n. is saying this is part of a collective punishment campaign against israel. and a u.n. official, unrwa official, spoke to us earlier today and said now they're having to make life and death choices, that they are forced to

make triage, what are they going to do with the little fuel they have left? do they divert it to the hospitals? and keep the incubators and life support systems going? but that would mean cutting all of it off for the bakeries that are -- that need fuel to make bread. do they cut it off the desalnization pumps. they mike these decisions now in real time because the reserves they're already rationing are now at critically low levels. >> the power is flickering and fading in hospitals in gaza as medical officials say generators are on their last drops of fuel. the health system run by hamas is at a state of collapse. just as casualties are flooding in from hundreds of israeli air strikes a day. israel says it is bombing hamas

fighters and leaders, hiding in tunnels below apartment buildings, schools, and hospitals. last night, our crew caught the immediate aftermath of what witnesses say was an israeli strike on a three-story building. first, you see a hand. she's alive. other children were not. we counted five children pulled from the building, three living, two appear to be dead. and this is khan younis in southern gaza where the israeli military again this morning urged palestinians to go for their safety. our crew this morning visited another building in the city, hit overnight. the u.n. secretary-general says what is needed now is clear, a cease-fire. israel is objecting, and the united states is backing it, saying no cease-fire now with

the pentagon saying small tactical pauses in air strikes can be useful for civilian protections. >> it is not the same as saying a cease-fire. right now we believe a cease-fire benefits hamas. >> reporter: but without one, bodies continue to pile up. and the list of this war escalating and drawing in the united states grows. israel this morning accusing iran of helping hamas with money, training and logistics before the october 7th attack. hamas militants crossed into israel and killed 1400 israelis and took more than 200 hostages including the elderly and babies. and one photograph this morning seemed ominous, the shadowy leader of hezbollah in lebanon meeting with top officials from hamas and islamic jihad. on top of the humanitarian crisis in gaza is this ongoing issue of hamas. israel says that hamas has -- is

using a network of tunnels and hamas does have hundreds of miles of tunnels underneath gaza and israel finds itself in this position, where it wants to attack hamas, but there are cities built on top of where hamas is living and operating. the fighters. so what is -- and there are no good answers here, jose. how do we get out of this crisis? so far nobody is offering any solutions. >> absolutely. no good answers and war is always so horrible. it is so horrendous. richard, you know, we have to also add in there there has been a delay in the ground part of israeli -- the idf going into gaza. it has something to do with american pressure, but also those 200 hostages that are still there. >> reporter: i think it has to do a lot with the hostages that are inside. it also has to do with hamas'

preparation. israel was caught off guard by the hamas attack. and israel doesn't want to be caught off guard again. it doesn't -- it still wants to know more about what it could be going into before it sends its troops into battle. again, hundreds of miles of tunnels underneath a built up area that is still full of civilians. where there are hostages being held in those tunnels according to hostages who have been released. it could be the worst possible ground fighting that the world has seen in decades. the most complicated. it takes time to prepare for an operation like that. and israel is angry right now. but just to go in angry could be a very bloody campaign. >> i apologize, right to breaking news. we have the president of the united states who is right now just speaking at the oval office. let's listen in. >> mr. prime minister, welcome, welcome to the white house.

welcome to the oval office. it has been a long time coming. and let me apologize again for not being able to make my visit to australia. things were a little bit in disarray here and required me to be home. that's why i didn't, i'm delighted you're here. together we work together to strengthen an alliance and it deepened. we moved in the direction that -- through our historic partnership with the united kingdom and expanded economic involvement with one another, american investment in australia being an all time high, under our administration. in may we strengthened our climate ties. thank you, thank you, thank you for your move on climate. it is a big deal, including launching a new climate mineral, clean energy contract because you have great assets that we can all use to make sure that we

move in the direction of clean energy. today, we're taking our alliance even further. doubling down on cooperation of technology, science. this morning we're going to discuss how all these efforts can help advance a free, open and secure endo pacific. i look forward to discussing how to address threats to the stability in the region, the economic stability as well, supporting ukraine in the face of russia's bitter aggression, and to stand with israel in the wake of hamas' appalling terrorist attacks. so, mr. prime minister, thank you very much for being here. it is an honor to have you. thank you for your leadership. >> well, thank you very much, mr. president. it is a great honor for me to be here as australia's prime minister. and our alliance, i believe, has never been more important.

it is also never been stronger. we have had defense, and we had the economic relationship, defense through the economic relationship through our free trade agreement, but we added a third part of this alliance, front and center as well, through our clean energy critical minerals and climate change compact, taking action to protect the world, to lower emissions, to take advantage of the shift to clean energy, that the opportunity it presents to grow economies as well and to decouple, particularly for developing nations, to allow them to develop in a way at the same time as they're reducing emissions. and breaking that nexus between industrialization and emissions is so important. the agreement is so central and

i thank you, mr. president, for the work that you've done in persuading legislators to make sure that we put in place the measures that are necessary to encourage that two-way transfer of defense technology that will be at the center of an agreement that is about peace and security in our region, but also about prosperity in our region as well. in addition to that, the work that we're doing together in the pacific is very important. i know you hosted pacific leaders twice here in the white house, and that has been very well -- and today's uncertain world, the alliance between australia and the united states and the way that we stand steadfast against aggression, whether it be russia's illegal invasion of ukraine, or whether

it be hamas' terrorist attack on israel is something that can be relied upon for us to stand up for our common values and that's why i very much welcome this visit, and welcome the cooperation that we're having as well as our personal relationship, our ninth meeting in just 16 months that i've had the honor of being prime minister. and i look forward to continuing to take the relationship to a higher level as we do every time we meet today we'll be advancing technology agreement between our two great nations as well and innovation is so important to benefit both of our peoples. thank you. >> we made one member of my administration incredibly happy with your strong role in environmental protection, secretary kerry.

>> indeed. indeed. and he's shown great leadership, of course. >> he has. >> and it is so important for us, with the other cooperation is in working on natural disasters. later i'll be visiting your emergency management authority, where they set up a similar model nationally based on what you've done here because climate change is real and it impacts wildfires, floods, and that is just a reminder every time that we have a responsibility to this and future generations. >> well, i was asked by xi jinping a couple of years ago why i was working so hard with your country, and i said because we're a pacific nation. looked at me and said, yeah, we're a pacific nation, the united states, we are. we're going to stay that way.

thank you. thank you, everyone. >> president biden with the prime minister of australia, just moments ago, at the oval office. up next, a deeper look at the most vulnerable people stuck in the middle east, in the middle of this war. it is the children. the u.n. says more than 400 children in gaza are killed or injured every day. we'll talk to the director of save the children in that region. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. i diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. et for fast pain relief. and now, get max strength topical pain relief precisely where you need it. with new tylenol precise. new emergen-c crystals pop and fizz when you throw them back. and who doesn't love a good throwback? [sfx: video game] emergen-c crystals.

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27 past the hour. since hamas' surprise terror attack 17 days ago, among the people paying the steepest price in this war, children. in gaza alone, at least 2,000 children have been killed according to save the children. and for those who survived air strikes, conditions remain grim. take a look at this, in the gaza strip, this baby was delivered by an emergency c-section after her mother was injured in an explosion on tuesday. the mother and newborn are apparently are in stable condition. just today, the hamas run palestinian health ministry says the healthcare system is now completely collapsed there. and while nbc news has not been able to independently confirm that, nbc's ellison barber has this look at what it is like inside one gaza hospital.

>> reporter: if the walls of gaza's al shifa hospital could talk, they would tell a story of a perpetual hell. of children crying out in agony, bloodied, fighting for their lives after israeli air strikes. >> 40% of all of the wounded are children. this is a 9-year-old boy with a huge blast defect in his back. >> and it is just not the gaza children that are suffering. in tel aviv, this installation was created made up of blindfolded teddy bears with photos of the hostages including 20 children the idf says are being held. joining us now from ramallah is jason lee, country director at save the children international for the occupied palestinian territory. thank you for being with us.

what are you hearing about what is going on in gaza today. what are the conditions like? >> situation is dire. you've got 2.3 million people in gaza, half of them being children. so that's more than 1.1 million children in gaza. they are affected every single day. the numbers of people that have been displaced, 1.4 million people have left their homes. and are sheltering in schools, hospitals, wherever they can find shelter. they have no access to food, no electricity, no water. the numbers of children killed should speak for itself. we're now in a situation where one child is killed every 13 minutes. children that are injured have no access to medical treatment. children that are hungry have no access to food. children have no access to water and they are not safe.

>> and, jason, so difficult, i think, for people to just be able to conceive of what exactly -- what you're describing means in real terms. i'm just wondering, you know, war is always horrendous, and there are always, you know, most conflicts affect mostly civilians and in this case, you know, little children. what are the long-term scars that this war will have on children? >> i can only imagine what it is like to be a parent, right now in gaza. we have almost half our homes destroyed and damaged. that means air strikes are falling. parents are having to make really difficult decisions, where do i take my child, where can my child be safe, because there is nowhere in gaza right

now that is safe. parents are scrambling to find anywhere to get shelter for the night, sleep, to get water and food for your child. children, especially young children, they may not understand what is happening, but they see everything that is happening, they hear everything that is happening, and they feel, they feel the terror and the fear around them. the long-term psychosocial and mental health impacts of this cannot be underscored. all of our research, all our studies show that children bear the price of this higher levels of anxiety, depression, feeling withdrawn, fearful not wanting to be away from their parents and worst of all, losing hope, absolutely not having any hope that not only will they survive, but that they have no future. this will be the legacy if we do not ensure that there is full adherence to international law

to protect all children at all times. the rights of children means that every single child, all of the time, no matter where they are have to be protected and the legacy, if we fail to do this, will be an entire generation of children that will bear the physical and mental scars of this and will not have any hope or belief in the future. >> jason lee, i thank you so much for being with us today. really appreciate it. coming up, mexico has been pounded by a powerful hurricane after exploded into a category 5, literally overnight. we'll get the latest on the storm's track next. e latest on storm's track next >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we were loading our suv when... crack! safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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37 past the hour. this morning hurricane otis made landfall in mexico as a category 5 storm, 165-mile-an-hour winds marking the strongest hurricane on record to hit the country and the eastern pacific. otis ripped through acapulco, battering hotels and inundating streets and lashing trees. officers urged people to take shelter. in just 24 hours, in just 24 hours, otis intensified from a tropical storm to a cat 5 hurricane. nbc news meteorologist bill karins joins us now. this is completely crazy, right?

from essentially 0 to 5 in less than 24 hours. where is it now and how do you explain this? >> jose, i won't mince my words, there is a humanitarian crisis going on now where this made landfall last night. we don't have pictures out of there. there is no power, no wi-fi, no reporters there, no storm chasers, they didn't have a lot of time knowing it was coming. but people don't have water, they don't have food, people are trapped, the airport was under the surge, with 165-mile-per-hour winds, likely destroyed the international airport. there needs to be boats heading to acapulco to give these people supplies because in the days ahead, it is going to get very ugly, especially with the highways and mudslides got closed down. we don't know that yet. we don't know how relief is going to head into 1 million people, all the videos and pictures you're seeing are all dark. it is all from last night. this storm made landfall at 2:35

in the morning. sun has been up for four hours. i have yet to see a single picture from the daylight imagery from this storm. so the only thing you're looking at now is before the worst of the storm hit and this was either during the eye or in the initial stages of the storm. so don't judge any pictures you've seen up to this point of how bad and how catastrophic the storm is. you want to see what a category 5 storm does, google hurricane andrew and see what that looked like. that just hit a million people last night in acapulco. to the maps, you look at the damage and the pictures you're seeing, like that, those are from hotels, concrete structures where the tourists were that had their wi-fi signals or cell service the longer because of generators likely. other areas where it was the worst hit, we haven't seen any pictures at all. so here is acapulco bay, this is the path of the storm last night. the worst storm surge and the damage is from the bay southward, the dirty right front.

this is where the international airport is. if you look on google maps, it is down next to the ocean. the elevation is, like, six to eight feet, likely the storm surge was 10 to 20 feet with wave action on top of that. look at the houses and structures to the south down here, that's what is likely destroyed and doesn't even exist. how did this happen? we went from yesterday 1:00 a.m., 50-mile-per-hour tropical storm. we have awe rana rainy day, win conditions. the storm went up to 160-mile-per-hour winds and went over this ocean maritime heat wave, climate change, yes, el nino, yes, check, check, this thing exploded. none of our forecast models saw this coming, no forecaster saw this coming. there wasn't one storm chaser that went down here for the storm and they all would have been here if they knew it was coming. now it is weakened, and now heading over central mexico.

but i just can't stress enough, just there is a disaster -- i mean, a category 2 hit this area and 200 people died. they had notice. this was a category 5 with 12 hour notice, i'm concerned how they're going to get water, food, medical supplies, within the next couple of days. this is going to be a catastrophic humanitarian disaster and lives are on the -- at risk right now. >> bill, thank you for this. because i got to tell you, even listening to the president of mexico's morning press conference he has every morning, he wasn't even clear on the situation because unexpected, yes, and also not prepared, but, bill, i mean, i'm thinking all the area around acapulco that the state of guerrero, there aren't a lot of concrete structure buildings that, you know, could defend this. >> yeah. there needs to be boats with supplies heading for this region.

it is not going to be easy for them to get. stuff has to be air dropped. >> yeah. bill karins, thank you very much. appreciate it. in other news right now, former president donald trump is back in court as his new york civil fraud trial forges ahead with his ex-lawyer michael cohen testifying for the second day. yesterday, cohen testified that trump ordered him to increase his assets, ordered him and others to increase his assets to give trump the net worth he desired. joining us now is msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, who has been inside the courtroom. lisa, what has it been like today? >> reporter: today has been a continuation of michael cohen's cross examination by trump lawyer alina hava who really isn't taking on for the most part the substance of michael cohen's testimony. what she is doing is trying to dismantle his credibility bit by bit. and today has largely focused on a few things. one, that michael cohen has it out for donald trump, who didn't give him the job he supposedly

wanted in the white house. two, that michael cohen continues to exploit his personal association with donald trump for his livelihood, now that as a convicted felon he's no longer able to practice law. and, three, she has gone back to the fact that yesterday on the stand two gasps in the courtroom, when he pled guilty to certain crimes that had nothing do with donald trump that included tax evasion that michael cohen says now he lied to a federal judge in order to get an advantageous plea deal. in other words, he sat in a state court and admitted under oath that when he was in a federal court five years go, also under oath, he lied. and she is trying to chip away at the credibility that michael cohen might have with the ultimate decisionmaker here who is not a jury, but new york supreme court judge arthur engoron. >> lisa rubin, thank you so

much. turning now to another major development in one of the former president's legal cases, abc news reports former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows was granted immunity by special counsel jack smith's office in the federal election interference case to testify under oath, citing sources familiar, abc says meadows told smith's team he warned trump that allegations about voter fraud and the 2020 election were baseless. the report also says meadows spoke with the team at least three times this year, including once before a federal grand jury. nbc news has not confirmed this reporting. the lawyer for meadows says he told abc news the story was, quote, largely inaccurate and said people will have to judge for themselves the decision to run with it anyway. joining us now, former u.s. attorney joyce vance, professor at the university of alabama law school, and an msnbc legal analyst. great seeing you. so, knowing how close meadows was to the whole fallout after

the 2020 election, how significant would this be for smith's case and how concerning would this be for the former president? >> there is no doubt that meadows' cooperation, if it was fully and freely given would be valuable to prosecutors. but, jose, that's not what this reporting suggests. this involves meadows testifying only after the government in essence compelled him to do so, by giving him some form of immunity for the testimony. so it is very difficult to assess this. we have got meadows' lawyer, the former number two official at the justice department, former deputy attorney general george terwilliger saying this is not what the media is portraying it to be. the reality is we don't know yet just how dangerous this is to the former president, who, of course, this morning was out saying that mark meadows had told him repeatedly that the 2020 election was tainted by

fraud. >> so, and help us understand, joyce, there are so many local, i guess, differences and obviously all kinds of different layers of it, but what exactly is, you know, immunity cooperation versus what we saw in the georgia case? >> yeah, this is the perfect question. and in georgia, we have been seeing co-defendants who are accepting plea deals and agreeing to cooperate the government. that means that they'll testify truthfully and that their plea deals are ctingent on that truthful testimony. federal prosecutors are authorized to give two different kinds of immunity, we can't tell which kind this is. there is youth immunity, a witness goes and testifies in front of the grand jury and their own testimony can't be used against them. the government could still technically prosecute, they just can't use anything that that witness says or that evidence or

information that they derived from that testimony. and then the second kind of immunity is transactional. you won't be prosecuted for anything, any subject matter that comes up during your testimony. in essence, the government is forcing the witness to testify with the immunity grant by taking away any fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination, and the only thing that the government can do is use that testimony in a subsequent perjury prosecution. so, two very different kinds of animals going on in the two different cases. >> joyce vance, thank you for clearing that up. that was a lot of confusion on that and i think that we understand it a whole lot better thanks to you. up next, an update on where things stand with the hostages that are being held in gaza next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. ♪♪

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52 past the hour. there's some hope about the potential release of more israeli hostages being held in gaza. in a press conference today, qatar's prime minister, who is the foreign minister also, said at any moment of time we will see some breakthrough, hopefully soon. joining us now from qatar is nbc's keir simmons.

where do things stand? >> reporter: the man you see there in the picture, who is the prime minister and minister here in qatar, made the comments and went on to say talks are ongoing and there has been some progress. separately, we have been told by a diplomat with knowledge of the talks that they are positive, they haven't broken down, there is no breakthrough. a lot of positive messaging from qatar here, which is the country -- the small gulf nation at the center of the negotiations, talking, i'm told, directly to israel, and to hamas. this is the country that negotiated the two hostages, the israeli american hostages and two more israeli hostages. interesting point about that, i'm told that there were real challenges during those seconds that set of negotiations, including saturday night, hamas coming out and naming those israelis and giving out their

i.d. number and saying we are prepared to release them and the israelis won't let us, that wasn't true. it was an attempt to push the israelis. it didn't help negotiations. it slowed them down. in the end, that secretary pair -- that second pair came out into egypt, which gives you a picture of how fragile and fraught the negotiations are if, as it is suggested, we are talking about a large group of hostages. >> keir simmons, thank you for that update. with us is daphne richmond and admiral stavridis. i want to talk about the attacks at u.s. bases that injured 24 service members. what do you make of the attacks?

is this part of iran's retaliation and continuing activities in the region? >> absolutely. this is of a piece with what iran has been doing for years, in particular, they have been bitterly angry since the killing of the leader of the revolutionary guards a couple of years ago. these kind of attacks are going to continue. we have a lot of forces in the middle east. not only two carrier strike groups at sea, 2,000 marines on amphibious ships. we have thousands of troops across syria, across the greater middle east, qatar. it's a target-rich environment for iran. look for this to continue. the u.s. will put a lot of pressure the other way, defensively, knocking down those drones, and they are also missile strikes, but also looking for potentially, how do

we respond if there are u.s. casualties? that's what to watch for, u.s. casualties, jose. >> admiral, one of the things that apparently is causing israel to put a pause at least temporarily on that ground invasion into gaza may be so the united states can rush missile defenses to the region as well as maybe another reason and certainly we have been reporting on this the prime minister delayed a ground offensive is the biggest complications is a lack of an exit plan. these are kind of things that are taking -- must be taken into consideration before going into gaza. >> yeah. i think there are four things going on. you named two of them. first and foremost, it's a complicated military task. as i think we will hear from my colleague momentarily, the tunnel system is unique to this

level of urban warfare. hard military task. number two, the hostages. everyone globally is trying to figure out a way, very encouraging, that the qataris are moving, three is the idea of missile defense and number four, lack of an exit plan. it's easy to get into a war. it's hard to get out of them. i think our israeli colleagues have got to come up with a plan to turn governance over to the palestinian authority, to a united nations team of some kind. they are not going to want to hold on to that very dangerous ground in gaza. >> daphne, talk to us about the tunnel system in gaza. >> the tunnel system that hamas possesses and has built consistently over almost two

decades is what you would expect any military to have as its military apparatus. it includes everything a military needs to wage a war, to carry out and to plan and direct operations. it has its ammunition, lines of communication, large rooms, bathrooms, amenities, electricity and most importantly, i think, it is equipped for prolonged stays underground. hamas has perfected what we call tunnel warfare. the use of this very strategic terrain which it knows very well and it can now use very efficiently against any counterforces, u.s., israeli or otherwise, that are trying to enter the gaza strip. >> it's so widespread. it's difficult to even conceive just how many kilometers of tunnels is under gaza. >> gazas a rather small piece

of territory. the tunnels, they zigzag and crisscross the gaza strip in such a way that they are actually very long. i cannot confirm or deny hamas's estimates of 500 kilometers of tunnels. the problem with tunnels is that you never really know how much of them there are. they are invisible, difficult to detect, awful to fight in. therefore, really this is one of the most complex operations that israel is going to face, because it's not just urban and subterranean, which are two difficult layers, but then you have the hostages on top of it as well. >> yeah. really complicated. admiral stavridis and daphne richmond, thank you for being with us. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now.