help prevent these tragedies have happening in the future. >> moms against violence. i'm thinking, so many moms in our country are having to experience this unbearable pain. i'm thinking of the moms in uvalde in texas. do you think that with the reality as it is today there can be any change in the culture of our country? >> there absolutely can be change. i wouldn't be doing if there wasn't possibilities. there's so many things we can do. stronger gun laws. a growing number of americans, as we talk about banning assault weapons, are on board for this. i want to note that we are having this conversation on the five-year marker of another one of the deadliest american mass shootings, the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. more has to be done. we will continue fighting and

pushing. this is not inevitable. we can do better than this. >> angela, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you so much. that wraps up the hour for me. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," manhunt. suspect robert card, wanted in connection to the mass murder of 18 people in maine, still at large. state, local, federal law enforcement chasing down more than 500 tips. so far, none pan out. including last night's dramatic search at his home and extensive property just 15 miles from the murder scenes. >> the safety of our community remains paraunt. i want to assure all that a tremendous amount of law enforcement manpower time and effort is being utilized around the clock in every effort to

apprehend the suspect and safeguard this community. >> every minute this goes on, we are more concerned because what's the next thing that's going to happen? >> one big focus today is on the river near where he abandoned his car. he owned a boat and a jet ski. was there a water getaway from the massacre? families, friends and nearby communities are consumed by groove and fear with an accused killer on the loose. >> just innocent people, just innocent people out for a night of bowling. this was a children's event. >> i want to hold my baby one more time. i don't care. >> i'm not going to watch the news thinking, that was in florida or texas. that was in my backyard. israel stands divided over whether to invade gaza now. richard engel with the latest. the political fallout between jewish and muslim communities. u.s. f-16s bomb iran-backed

facilities in syria in retaliation for iran's strikes against u.s. forces in syria and iraq last week. will iran back off or escalate? ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. continuing breaking news coverage of a community and a state on edge. 40-year-old mass shooting suspect robert card remains at large. still considered arm and dangerous by the state and federal law enforcement trying to track him down. businesses and schools in and around lewiston, maine, are shut down again today. residents are staying behind closed doors while law enforcement chasing hundreds of tips. searching areas frequented by the suspect. the death toll remains at 18. doctors work around the clock trying to help the 13 other people wounded in the attacks. joining me now, nbc's george

celise in maine, jim kavanaugh and former fbi assistant director frank figliuzzi. george, i want to play what we heard from one of the tactical commanders in maine about the tips that they have been receiving. >> i can't keep track because there's so many. there's been a continuous stream of tips that have come in. we have been handling -- our local community has been calling with tips, everything from -- you name it. it's been anything. any tip that small may be something big. >> tell us about the focus of the police and federal agents today. focusing on the river, among other places. >> yeah. good afternoon. officials saying they have irons in the fire. this is one of them. this is here in lisbon. local, state and federal agencies have been here all morning. this is the area where robert card left his car. what you have are officials in

the water. there's boats in the water at this hour searching this river. we saw a helicopter flying not ago. it has been makin rounds, flying low. almost to the treeline here with thermal imaging. this is what we have been seeing here this morning. it's what officials told us to see. a lot of activity concentrated on the search for evidence that robert card may be in the area, whether they find a body in the woods. it's a densely wooded area. or if he is -- his body may be in this shallow water at this hour. as you mentioned, this all comes as last night there was a heavy police presence at the robert card property. many, many acres of land out there. you saw many, many tactical vehicles, local, state and federal partners, descending on this home. at one point you heard officers saying, robert, give yourself up. come out with your hands up. that led to nothing. we know from authorities from

law enforcement sources that they did find a weapon in the car at the boat launch. they found a note in the home. the contents being verified by nbc news. officials are saying they are trying to be transparent as the search continues. the community very much on edge. a lot of people were hoping that this was going to come to a close one way or the other last night. now you have this plethora of police activity here where the vehicle was found. now you have this massive police presence here on the water and in the air. officials earlier this morning held a briefing letting the public know what they are going to be doing. pointing out the search area they are focusing on today. here is what they had to say. >> there's a lot of stuff going on here. what matters to us is the safety of our community, the safety of our residents. we will continue to fight on their behalf to bring this individual to justice. we know that that has an impact on starting that healing process. it's not a slam dunk.

it's not we got him now and everybody is better. it's going to take a while for the communities to work through. it will take forever for families to work through. >> evidence here of the police activity. more sirens flying down the road here. we expect this to play out over the next several hours until they even find robert card dead or alive. the chopper starting to circle back here. this is sort of the play by play. we saw this play out in western pa during the search out there. there's crews here both in the air, on the ground, searching for this individual. again, the community on edge. we are starting to hear the stories from some of the families of those that were tragically lost in this mass shooting. >> it's got to, frank, be so hard for these people. they are trying to heal. they can't get together. they are in lockdown. periodically, they see a huge focus of law enforcement.

so far, leads that don't pan out. george was just referencing, of course, the prison escapee who got away in pennsylvania. that lasted two weeks. this could last longer. >> indeed. i think patience is a virtue here. i understand the frustration. this has to play out. eventually, one of those leads, one of those tips from the public may be the one that breaks this case open. i would encourage the residents not to lose hope but rather be the eyes and ears of law enforcement. if you sense something, you see something, you need to say something about it to law enforcement. the press conference i found interesting in that we learned almost as much from what was not said or referenced as we did from what was said. i mean, we heard little to no reference to the results of searches that were conducted late last night, early this

morning. we heard the commissioner kind of not answer the question from a reporter about whether the family was or was not cooperating. that might be an attempt to protect the family. also, we see this kind of no strong lead right now. they are doing everything methodically and logically. nothing seemingly pointing to one area or direction. obviously, the focus is on the river, because that's where his car was found. what does that tell me? the usual techniques haven't worked so far. dogs haven't found a tracking scent that's worth anything to them. air resources using heat-seeking technology seems not to have worked yesterday. technical resources that track cellphone usage and ping it off the cell tower seems not to have worked yet. here we are. >> jim, at this point, what do

they do? i understand it's methodical and they are going bit by bit. but this is a very large area. the wooded areas of his own property as well as wooded areas and areas around the river that he knows so well having been on the water with his own boat and jet ski. >> that's right. i think they should do a better job of trying to leverage the public's help more. there was a lot of talk in the press conference but there wasn't a lot of information. you have to be more forthcoming. police sometimes get too guarded in everything. that doesn't help. you have to leverage the people. you gotta keep them with you. i was so frustrated listening to that when they said they had 18 people killed and they only identified eight of the bodies. this is extremely frustrating. this should not happen. first of all, we have seven people dead in a bowling alley and people dead in a tavern. they went out for a night of

leisure. all these people have a wallet in their pocket or a cellphone or nine out of ten of them do. what happens is we get police procedural practices that become an exercise in the procedure. nobody can touch anything. nobody can do anything. look, the guy is on video coming into the bowling alley killing everybody. the commander can say, one forensic technician can suit up, put on his boots and coat, videotape it, go over to body one, take his wallet, put it in a plastic bag. this can be done in an hour with each victim. families can be told their loved one is there. 48 hours later they haven't told them? this is not a bombing which i have had many of. this is not a scene where you don't know who the people are. that's a criticism i have. i was frustrated to see that. they're going to make people angry at them for no reason.

that's not going to contaminate this crime scene. this is not going to hurt it. if you want to ask the district attorney, we want to do this, is it okay, i think they should do a procedure like that. i don't think it's called for 48 hours later that they haven't told people that their loved ones are deceased. >> you make a good point. let me ask you quickly a follow-up on that. you made such a good point. is it because -- without getting too graphic, the way this horrible weapon -- the way bodies are. how should we put it? we talked to people where you can't identify the body without dna. >> but it's not the case. even if someone is disfigured by the shots, like i say, they have i.d. with them. them a phone with them. you can go -- these people did not -- were not kidnapped with

no i.d. they are at the tavern, the bowling alley. get their i.d. and see mr. johnson and you tell his family, look, this is the -- we took this off the person. this is the clothes they were wearing, blue jeans and a white shirt, this was the cellphone and wallet. it is your loved one. we believe that it is with 95% certainty. we will want to check dna and have the forensic lab do that. that's what you tell loved ones. you don't say, we can't tell you if your loved one is dead 48 hours later. i have seen these mistakes. i was a deputy commander on the d.c. sniper. they killed a guy 100 miles south of the command post in virginia. they left a note nailed to a tree. we went through this exercise of forensic processing where nobody can touch it. guys in moon suits are putting the note in the bag and transporting it to the lab. we don't get the note for five

hours. the note says, i will call you at this phone number three hours ago. when you final a note in a tree and you have an active killer in the sniper case, the proper procedure is, open the note with rubber gloves, photograph it, put it back in the bag, send it to the lab. send what the note says to the commanders so you can make a decision on what you gotta do. this is a similar situation. i would just recommend to the commanders that this is not necessary. you are not contaminating the crime scene by actually being there, a technician being there, because you can photograph, videotape. you have the murders on video. you can do it. >> thank you so much, jim. really strong points. good points. frank figliuzzi, and george. the town is in mourning. they are remembering the victims

young and old. those who have been identified. that's next. "andrea mitchell reports" is back in 60 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc. hing msnc migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish. ♪ nurtec is the only medication that can treat and prevent my migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using.

most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. talk to your doctor about nurtec today. we are learning more about the 18 people who were tragically killed in lewiston, maine, while enjoying youth night in a popular bowling alley. all but two have been identified. the oldest was a 76-year-old grandfather, and the youngest a 14-year-old boy killed along with his father. antonia hylton joins us from lewiston. the shelter in place order means as we were discussing people can't come together. i don't know if they can have a church service. >> reporter: that's right. some of the residents who i have spent time talking to have been venturing out all on their own. they say that they feel like they are taking a risk.

they know their loved ones, their family, they are at home. what we heard is at night people are turning their lights out, locking up cars and barns, which may sound routine. but this is the kind of community where people didn't lock their front door. they knew everyone. they have grown up here. the kids are going to schools they went to. i spent time talking to one businessowner and life-long resident who lost multiple friends and is also friends with one of the people who is in critical care right now in the facility behind me here. he was standin outside the facility waiting for permission to come visit friend at some poin we believe he is down there actually doing that at the moment. listen to some of my conversation with him. it gives you the sense of shock that people are in right now. what went through your mind? >> panic. i was at that bowling alley seven days prior with my 3 and

4-year-old at the exact same time. so i knew people there. i was actually getting grief for not being there. it hasn't hit me yet. it's very surreal. never thought this would happen in our community. >> reporter: he told me he was planning to go that night but he had to handle childcare. he has two kids at home. if he hadn't been in charge of them that night, he was going to go and hang out with his friends who were giving him grief for not coming. he has survivor's guilt. he feels like he could have helped friends. he could have been there with them. he has been here hanging out outside the facility and not sheltering in place at home in part because of that. he is trying to be here and be a support. that's the story we are hearing from so many people with casualties this high. almoroaching the number of casualties you would see in maine in an entire year just happening in one nig

it touches everyone here. i also want to add, you talked abouthe corn hole tournament. we are finding out a bit more about the profile and community members present. not only was there a youth bowling night that night, but there was also a group of men o are part of a corn hole who meet up, they were part o deaf community. there's been an outsized impact on the deaf community. in some cases, they feel as if their story hasn't been told. we are learning so much about the victims as we wait for authorities to give us more details. there are families here who have discussed some of what hasn't been made public as they try to call each other, call to local radio show, go to facebook groups and give each other support because they don't have the physical outlet right now. they understand that being safe means staying at home. they are fearful about the scenario like what happened in pennsylvania, where this could stretch on for weeks. they want their kids in school.

they need to go to work. there's a push and pull here of what's going to be best for the community if this stretches on for days. authorities really at this time don't have a sense of where robert card is. >> antonia hylton, it's so sad. thank you. thanks for being there. the u.s. retaliates, sending its drones to attack iranian-linked facilities inside syria. the pentagon says it's self-defense. there were f-16s that did the strike. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. rea mitcl reports" only on msnbc i don't. cascade platinum plus... with double the dawn grease fighting power and double the scrubbing power. for a no rewash clean... and a cabinet ready shine. upgrade to cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain relief. and now, get max strength topical pain relief

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this as israeli forces were carrying out another ground incursion in gaza. drones and jets fired on what israel says were hamas command sites. israel estimates 229 people are hostages being held by hamas inside gaza. frustration is growing among the loved ones. with gaza neighborhoods flattened by israeli air strikes, the death toll there is passing 7,000. that's according to the hamas-run health ministry. we have no way of confirming the figures. in the past, they have been grossly inaccurate. nbc's richard engel is reporting. >> reporter: our crew in southern gaza witnessed an israeli air strike. rushed toward it. a boy is rescued from the rubble. a girl remains trapped. she's eventually freed. our cameraman caught up with her

in an ambulance. she's dazed. at a hospital she's treated on the floor. given air and comes around as she's cleaned. >> extraordinary footage. richard is joining me now from our team inside gaza. richard, israel's defense minister says a ground offensive into gaza will happen, quote, soon, but there's a lot of division among israelis. the latest polls show 49% of people there do not want them t go in. wanted to give the hostage negotiators more time to work. >> reporter: this issue has become very divisive in israel and in the middle east with arab countries, saudi arabia now adding its voice to the calls on israel not to do a ground offensive. israel is still attacking gaza from the air. they are attacking with these limits ground incursions.

there was a sea incursion that the israelis announced today. those have been relatively brief. israeli tanks, troops, bulldozers cross into gaza, carry out an operation, fire their tanks, and then come back on the israeli side of the border. more of a probing attack. what the next phase of the operation would be would be a larger ground assault, potentially occupying parts of the gaza strip for a long time. it really goes down to the ultimate objective. is it to disarm hamas? destroy its military capability? replace it as a government? you replace it as a government, that would require some sort of occupation, some sort of creating of an alternative. right now, just over the last 48 hours, since the first of these limited strikes in and out, the pace of the assaults inside gaza has intensified quite a bit. if you listen, you can probably hear an israeli jet overhead

right now. we are very close to the gaza strip. that's gaza between those buildings behind me. we have been hearing what sounds like rolling thunder as israeli artillery and tanks, which are in dug-in positions along the israel side of the gaza border, have been firing into the northern gaza strip. if you listen, you can hear that jet moving quite quickly above, drowning out the sound of drones, which is constant in the air. this is an area of heavy military activity. this is before the next phase of the operation, which israel says is coming at a time of its choosing with arab allies saying, don't do it. even some israelis saying, don't take it to that next level. give negotiations more time to get the hostages who are still inside gaza strip presumably in hamas tunnels, because that's where freed hostages said they were kept. >> richard, again, there was an

iranian drone that went up against u.s. forces this morning. u.s. forces shot it down. this is after the strike yesterday. is there concern that this might, instead of deterring iran, as officials are telling me, but it might engage iran to be more aggressive? so far there have been 20 iranian strikes, drones launched against u.s. forces in the last -- since october 17th. >> reporter: it's hard to know if this particular strike is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back and starts a war. indications we are hearing from sources in the region, both u.s. military and arab sources, negotiators, are that iran doesn't want to cross that line, doesn't want a full-on war with the united states, which is what would come, which is what the

united states said will come if it engaged in a major way. president biden has kept it vague, but he keeps repeating the message to iran, to hezbollah, don't get involved, don't do it. he had a message for the supreme leader, don't do this. there will be a price to pay. what we are seeing, it seems to be, are the iranian-backed militias in syria and iraq testing the boundaries. seeing how far they can go. attacking u.s. bases. the united states pushing back with an attack, trying to keep it proportionate. it's an enormously dangerous balance, because, yes, any one of these could escalate it to another level. there's a lot of u.s. military hardware in and around the region. the u.s. has its guns out. if the next stage would be to start firing them, then we could see a sequence of escalations.

there isn't just a war here between israel and hamas, but a wider war that involves the united states and iran. i'm not sure this particular one that we are talking about is that incident. you don't know if there will be another tomorrow that could be. >> richard engel, thank you very much. please take care of yourself. joining us now is former nato supreme allied commander, admiral stavridis. admiral, a total of 20 attacks against u.s. forces now in iraq and syriain october 17th. the latest just today after the strike last night overnight hitting iranian-liedarget ftargets in syria. how worrying is it? >> i would assess the chances of a direct conflict as low. neither side wants it. the iranians have significant

internal turmoil in their country. their economy is in poor shape. they have very little sets of allies and partners. they are basically locked out of the region in terms of real alliance and friendships. iran really doesn't want to get in a serious war with the united states. over on the other side, certainly, the biden administration, particularly heading into an election year in 2024, the last thing they want is a significant conflict. i think the fundamentals here are quite against a wide escalation. let's call it a 10% chance. that's still uncomfortably high. what we need to worry about is that ladder of escalation. iran hits us. we hit them back. they hit us a little harder. all of a sudden hezbollah starts moving missiles toward israel. you can see that ladder of

escalation overtaking the better instincts, if you will, on both sides. worrisome. i don't think that's where we are headed. one to keep an eye on. >> here in washington, secretary blinken is meeting again for the second day with the top advisor to president xi, foreign minister. these meetings are supposedly focused largely on iran, because of what the events in the middle east, of course. the hopes by the administration that china will use its extensive influence over iran, because they purchase so much iranian oil. they don't need a larger war involving iran and the united states potentially, with oil prices shooting up and supplies going down. the question is, will china do that? china has been with russia and north korea in that axis against

the u.s. will china help us and help the world avoid a larger war? >> the short answer is, above all, what president xi wants is for the global economy not to go into some kind of huge recession, which is what would occur if the u.s. and iran got into a significant war. a jump in oil prices. china gets the majority of their hydrocarbons from there. i think that u.s./china relations as a general proposition are on an upswing. we have seen a lot of cabinet officials from the u.s. go to beijing. now we are seeing chinese cabinet officials come here. all of this is headed toward mid november, just a few weeks from now, when president xi and

president biden are going to have a face-to-face. all indications this will happen in san francisco. that's another reason our diplomats are talking to each other. in terms of china and its influence in the middle east, it's quite significant. this is one of those odd situations where the u.s. and china conceivably could work together, because again here, neither side, china or u.s., wants a breakdown in the middle east. >> one other wrinkle was that overnight also a chinese plane went within ten feet of an american plane. >> yeah. the way to think about this is, strategically, u.s. and china have some opportunities to work together. but there are going to be dangerous tactical spikes along the way. think of the spy balloon, the close encounters in the south

china sea. let's hope that the better angels on both sides can come to a situation to help in the middle east. it's not inconceivable. >> one big signal will be if he sees the president, which would indicate -- the president today and that would indicate the meeting is on, november 18th in san francisco. admiral james stavridis, thank you very much. a community on lockdown. a look inside the steps authorities are taking in their search for the alleged gunman. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. mazig new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? switch to verizon, and get iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) wow! (vo) get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. all three on us. only on verizon. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning

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the normally vibrant city of lewiston resembles a ghost town. only an occasional resident might break the shelter in place order. joining us now, tom winter and professor james densley, department state for school of criminology. tom, i want to play what we heard last night from a former army reservist who was trained, in part, by robert card. >> what we did, meeting him and the way he showed us how to use a weapon, the man is smart. he understands warfare. he may not have been deployed, but he is smart. i think they need soldiers here, to be honest with you.

>> he knows what he is doing in a way other fugitives have not. it's a wooded area he knows very well. the river he knows well. take us inside the investigation. senior law enforcement officials are following the lead and coming up cold. >> first off, it's a difficult thing. any time we have had these manhunts over the years, there's initial flury of activity. want to go to any properties he is familiar with to start searching where they found or they believe that he was last located, which is where they found his car near the river. that's where divers are going underwater today, according to the maine state police and department of public safety. they are working with folks that focus on fish & wildlife. the fbi is involved. we can expect more activity today. they expect -- they told us to expect them to show up at different houses and residences and get on the bullhorns and

say, come out. there are law enforcement reasons for that, legal and tactical. they continue to go from property to property and check off spots where they might be. one thing that makes this difficult, a lot of times we think, they have thermal cameras. they can track somebody. in areas that are this densely -- this densely forested and we have the type of vegetation that we have, it makes it a lot more difficult. of course, all of this is assuming he is alive, which is not a guarantee and not something that authorities are ruling out either, very much so. i think when you look at this, it's a real challenge. it's difficult to find somebody who knows an area very well, likely much better than most of the people that are going to be searching there. it's something that this might take some time. it could be solved within the next 20 minutes. we might be talking about this in the spring. >> that's a grim forecast. professor, give us an idea what

you think his frame of mind might be. he has had mental health problems, supposedly hearing voices. he's a former military reservist. he has extensive weapons training. the impact on the community has to be profound. >> yeah. i think you covered a lot there. the impact is devastating. it's very hard for that community to process the tragedy that's happened because they are still in the lockdown scenario. everybody is on alert because of the manhunt ensuing. that's rare. when you think about the mindset of a mass shooter, so common that mass shooters intend to die in the act. that's why we rarely see this type of a manhunt afterwards. usually, these individuals take their own lives or are killed by law enforcement on the scene. that's what makes this case different. it goes back to an earlier statement which was made, which is the assumption is that this is an individual on the run.

it might be somebody who has taken their life. that could complicate this search. in terms of the mindset, we see a commonality in mass shooters. many are struggling with an existential crisis, mental health challenges. that doesn't mean that that's causal in the crime. we see a correlation with previous military experience and mass shootings as well. about a quarter of the mass shooters in our database, nearly 200 people, have a previous military history. all these factors are playing into this particular search. certainly, complicating it for law enforcement officials. >> tom, we learned there's another briefing at 1:00. i don't know if that means they have found something or that maybe they figured out some other lead or perhaps not. >> while listening to you and listening to this reporting about mass shootings, i have

been checking my phone. nothing that indicates that there's been any significant development in this case. they promised to do these press briefings as we have gone along. we will continue to keep an eye on this, if there's something that new. we will bring it to everybody. it speaks to what i just said a couple seconds ago, which this is one of the situations where they could all of a sudden find him or have an idea where he is. this might be something that waits until the snowmelt in the spring. >> thanks to both of you. coming up, democratic congresswoman alyssa slotkin, a former pentagon official, joining us to discuss the israel/hamas war and the political fallout at home. stay with us. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ll rc they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure.

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it will change the balance and rules of engagement entirely. >> at white house wednesday, hours before the u.s. f-16s bombed iran-backed facilities in syria that had launched strikes last week against u.s. forces in the region, president biden issued a very stern warning to iran. >> my warning to the ayatollah was if they continue to move against those troops, we will respond. he should be prepared. it has nothing to do with israel. >> joining me now is democratic michigan congresswoman elissa slotkin. it's good to see you. thanks for being with us. thanks for being with us. i'm wondering what your level of concern is about this recent escalation. there was another iranian drone that took off and u.s. forces shot it down this morning. what are your concerns about what hezbollah will do when or

if israel launches the long anticipated ground invasion into gaza? >> yeah, look, i think we're already seeing the regionalization of this war, right? u.s. forces have been attacked in syria, in iraq in two different places, and from iranian-backed groups in yemen, you know, off the coast yemen. we've seen some rockets from he has hezbollah into israel. i think most people you talk to here in washington in the national security space would say particularly if there's a serious ground invasion, you're going to see hezbollah and other iranian backed groups accelerate, get involved. and you know, i think that is one of the many considerations that those of us with the national security background are trying to process through and urge like all parties to just take a breath for a second and figure out what we understand to be the strategic goals of next steps. >> nbc news is now also reporting the house could move ahead separately on an israel

supplemental, and the senate would then make a case for ukraine to try to be added. how does that work or signals from the new speaker is that they would have to be on separate tracks. we don't know how this is going to be worked out. >> yeah, you know, the truth is i think that right now you have a situation where a lot of my republican colleagues are somehow very supportive of supplying aid to israel, but absolutely, again, supplying aid to ukraine, and so while i think we -- there are a majority of voices who do support that help to ukraine, that continued help, politics is the art of the possible, and so i don't know if we're going to keep it together as one bill f we're going to split it apart. we've got a very new speaker who's got very little time to prove himself in being able to get things done before the government shuts down on november 17th and this issue of aid for ukraine, for israel, for taiwan is wrapped up in this new speakership, so to be continued.

>> and what about these latest attacks against u.s. troops in syria and iraq, the 20 since october 17th. how concerning is that? are they just probing us and trying to remind everyone that hezbollah is out there as a threat? >> yeah, i think they're making a statement, and they're saying that, you know, if this, you know, engagement continues, this ground operation moves ahead that they are looking to bring the united states of america into this fight, and it's just another reason why we need to be really thought and feel judicious, and as someone who served in places like ramadi, in anbar province, i feel very strongly that it's important that we really understand what the next steps are from the israeli government, both for them so that we understand the casualty rate on urban warfare in the arab world, take it from the united states of america, it is high. and it is very, very difficult to distinguish between

combatants and innocents, and civilians. our strategic goal, what are they? what's the end state they're aiming for, particularly since the united states of america is now being pulled in, we need to understand all of those things, and i think that's why i just -- there are a lot of voices here on the hill who have served, you know, the military veterans, people in the intelligence community who are now, i think, speaking with one voice about the need to learn the lessons that the united states learned really the hard way before proceeding a pace. >> in fact, that's exactly what president biden urged in his big speech, and it's what 49% of the israeli populous according to the latest polls are saying. don't go in, give the negotiators more time to try to get the hostages out. from your experience with urban warfare, what you know about mosul and fallujah, with these tunnels, what are the chances

for them to be able to go in with tanks and save hostages and get them out of tunnels s some of which are it two stories deep. >> identify been talking with a lot of folks and asking them if the united states of america was about to launch this operation with largely reservist soldiers, what do we think the casualty rate would be? what kind of -- what would we expect in terms of injured and killed and they're saying deeply disturbing numbers, like 30%, you know, either injured or harmed, and so i think that, again, both for the israelis, for civilians in gaza just making sure we take a breath for a minute and figure this out, i don't -- you know, the united states, look at fallujah and the united states in 2004, right? we could not succeed there the first time we went in. we had to stop. it was too deadly to the united states. we couldn't distinguish between civilians and militants. we took a pause. we gave al qaeda six months to regroup, to reorganize, to rest, and went back in again just as

deadly, just as devastating. i mean, we have real world examples, and i'm urging my department of defense colleagues to have these tough conversations that part of being a partner and an ally to another country is having tough conversations about these things, particularly if we're going to be dragged in. >> congresswoman, thank you so much. we're going to cut to richard engel now because richard, you're hearing a lot going on behind you there on the gaza border. talk to us. >> reporter: so just since we last spoke a good several minutes ago, it has intensified, and for the the last two hours i would say we're hearing some of the most intense israeli bombardments into gaza over the last several days if not since the beginning of this conflict. the israeli media are talking about hundreds of jets or 100 jets or more in action. we've been hearing the jets over us. a lot of this seems to be israeli tank and artillery fire, mostly directed at the northern

parts of the gaza strip, the northern gaza city, these are areas that have been targeted. we've also seen despite all of the fire power that israel is directing onto the northern gaza strip, some rockets still being fired from hamas. there was a volley of rockets fired not long ago heading towards the north coming from right in that area, right in the area that is being attacked right now, so there are active battles going on right now with israel using the positions it has on the gaza border to fire into the gaza strip, and if you listen, you can hear some of them in the background. we can also hear drones up ahead, the faint humming of drones and they are constant. there's a lot of what the u.s. military holds isr, observation drones in the sky, jets in action, tanks and artillery as well. >> richard, with all of the overhead satellite and drone

technology that they've got, intel from us and their drones, is it at all surprising to you that hamas still has rocket implacements, launch placements that they haven't spotted and taken out? >> reporter: hamas was prepared for this. hamas was prepared to attack israel, and there have been numerous reports how hamas was able to catch israel off guard, that it knew israeli defenses well, and hamas is dug in in gaza. that is a major challenge for the israeli military and a major, obviously, challenge for the people of gaza because as long as hamas has dug in and keeps fighting it seems that israel will continue to bomb them, and gaza is very small, and hamas does have a network of tunnels that run all under the gaza strip about 300 miles of tunnels according to most estimates, and israel is bombing what is on top of them, and those are homes. those are buildings, and we've

been seeing the aftermath of that, and the big question is is this a softening campaign? is israel right now bombing to try and collapse the tunnels, bombing to try and put pressure on hamas. bombing to target hamas leaders in advance of a deeper push because all we've seen at this stage is a lot of bombing and these quick forays in and out, where israeli tanks and troops will go in, briefly stay, and then pull out again. more like a -- to compare to a boxing match that these would be the jabs before you go in and commit fully. you try and test your opponent. you test their defenses, see where weaknesses might be. >> and from what you're hearing, what about the hostage negotiations and all the talk from hamas that as many as 50 might be coming out at a time. >> so they seemed more optimistic a few days ago. they seemed more optimistic when we were -- we saw those two

back-to-back releases. hamas and the arab negotiators who are trying to act as intermediaries, particularly qatar, are saying that what israel needs to do is pause. it needs to pause these strikes in order to allow the hostages to come out, and israel and the united states say they haven't agreed to that at least publicly, they say that hamas must unilaterally release the hostages and then they can discuss other issues. there are -- those channels are continuing, and there are some moments of optimism with you hear reports that israel might be willing to free some women and children, palestinian prisoners, but so far we haven't had any developments since those four initially were freed in two batches, all women. >> richard engel, thank you so much right near the gaza border and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports". remember, follow us on social media @mitchellreports. "chris jansing rep