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introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. very good day to all of you home of the xfinity 10g network. from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome everyone to alex witt reports. it's noon in the. east seven pm in tel aviv. in gaza, we begin with breaking news on the war. this is what is near this. i'll israel promise the gaza strip and says this new an intense phase will continue to expand. the idf is again warning residents of gaza to move south. gaza is under a blackout with no phone or internet service. elon musk injustice last hour has said that his spacex starlink will provide support to prove an aid groups. u.n. officials warn of possible catastrophic consequences from

this latest round of shelling. [sound of artillery] this is what the intensified israeli offensive in gaza sounds like from inside the israeli border. [sirens] [sound of artillery] and then there is. that you saw and heard. at a hamas rocket landing on the beach in ashkelon on the israeli side of the it's cause a border. idf and israeli government officials say their troops hit 150 targets overnight. adding this is only the beginning. >> i completed a situation assessment last night. we have accomplished a phase in the war. we will continue to be stronger and precise. we will hunt down every terrorist. >> families in tel aviv with

loved ones being held hostage are going more concerned about the military action. they're worried about their safety during the israeli military offensive. yesterday, the united nations general assembly passed a resolution calling for cease-fire and humanitarian truce. israeli government officials rejected that out. right here are the latest numbers from the war. palestinian health authority says more than 7000 are dead in gaza, including almost 3600 children. more than 100 killed in the occupied west bank. 1900 wounded there. as for the idf, they report 1400 killed in israel, 5400 have been wounded. let's go to my colleague nbc's jay gray, joining us from the lebanon border where skirmishes have erupted. jay, give us the latest from there. are you getting any information out of gaza? >> it is-limited, obviously, alex. good to talk to you again this morning. let's talk first about where we are. we have heard explosions throughout the. day we know there have been several exchanges between

israeli forces and hezbollah fighters along the border with lebanon. in, fact just in the last hour, we know there was a skirmish between the two sides. that is something that has increased, no doubt because of what we have seen in gaza. the most aggressive advanced to this point by israeli defense forces into gaza. tanks and troops, moving across the border and into the area. they were stepping up as well the attacks from the air. even the navy, the israeli navy was involved, striking just off of the coast. we know that they targeted 150 underground targets last night as they moved in. no indication what they were looking for. intelligence is obviously something they were seeking to find. they have said that the hostages are a priority and all of this. you would suspect that they were trying to get as much information they can about the hostages. they were taking out control

centers. they were taking at anti tank installations. one thing you think about last, time it is the third night in the row we've seen them move across the border and into gaza. some of the tanks, some of the troops stayed in and state in gaza. so that is something that really is a change in what they are doing, a change of strategy. at least a forward movement in this process. they've said all along that they are preparing the battlefield for the next phase. it would seem, at least at this point, alex, that this is the next phase. these movements and doing what they can inside and inching along there. >> okay, jay gray, thank you for the update. i appreciate. that i confident that we will see you next hour. joining me in studio, democratic congressman, seth moulton of massachusetts. member of the armed services committee, as well as having served as a marine corps officer in iraq. welcome, my friend. it's good to see you. we have the idf.

it is expanding its operations. it has done the internet and phone communication holdouts been taken out. tell me your reactions to what we're seeing. is that a good move by israel? we don't know exactly what's going on because of the cut off. >> no, we don't. i mean, look, israel has a right to defend itself. it has a right to take terrorists off the battlefield, which is what they are saying they're going to. do we do the same thing after 9/11. the problem is we quickly realized that was not enough. there's not just a military solution to this problem. you have to have a political future for everyone else, or in the process of taking terrorists off the battlefield, you are going to recruit more. that is really israel's risk. when they are shutting down internet and phone service, that might be effective for helping them to get the terrorists, to cut the communications off, but if they alienate the rest of the population in the process, they might win the short war but they would lose the long war.

>> this op-ed he, wrote you pointed basically to speaking to benjamin netanyahu saying you have to have a plan, not only of what comes next but what comes after. are you confident he has figured it out? >> no because i haven't heard. it he has not articulated to us or the rest of the world, and most importantly he has not articulated to his own troops and the palestinian people what the long term solution would be. if they just go in and leave gaza a smoldering mess, at the end of the, day we will be right back where we started, except they might have actually recruited more terrorists in the process. general mcchrystal, who was a famed american commander in afghanistan, he talked about what it's called terrorist math. for every innocence a billion that you kill, it serves to recruit about ten more terrorists to the cause. so just think about. that they go, and they take out one terrorist in a building, but in the process they kill one civilian, they've taken out

one but they have just gained nine. that's a dangerous process for israel. they have to be able to tell the palestinian people, after this operation, there's a better future. that is fundamentally why you should side with. that's why you should side with peace. and not continue to join hamas. >> it's hard to get the message across when you're dropping. bombs >> we had a motto in the division, no better friend, no better enemy than that u.s. military. there is no worst enemy than the israeli defense forces, they're showing hamas. the other part is key do. when i sit in briefings -- yes, he would be focused on what americans were doing in our counterterror operations. but even more he would be focused on how we are going to win over the population. i remember him spending hours just railing into the how we would get power restored to a certain section in baghdad. he sent a certain number of

marines into an insurgent part of a country, not to kill insurgents but to fix that power line, he knew it was key to ultimate victory. >> here's the deal, as a writer of, that you are quite clear about your experiences there. you talked a lot about your time in nudge office, specifically. you were in a position of having to go in and rescue wounded soldiers. it sounded like a brutal urban warfare. talk about what you think lies ahead and why you said, in this op-ed, it might be easier than what lies ahead in gaza. >> what we saw in iraq will be easier than what happened in gaza. >> why? >> we were fighting for a couple hours to take one building held by insurgents. they rolled grenades down the stairs, very easy to defend against an attack and an urban environment. when there were no tunnels under the building.

they were all under gaza. we cleared the civilians out. we knew that ultimately when we made the difficult decision to pull the marines back -- >> it was a school, right? >> it was a school. i had a choice to make in that moment. do i see more marines die or do i drop a bomb on the building? i made the decision to drop a poem. two things, i knew there were no civilians there. but second, we knew we were going to have to rebuild that school. >> and did you? >> we did. and that was after that two-hour battle, we spent the next four or six months working hand in hand with the iraqis to rebuild the city and fundamentally rebuild our trust. there has to be a plan for that too. i have not heard it yet from the israelis. >> what about the u.s. air strikes in -- it encroaches on the prospect of a broader war. granted, it was done because there were 20 some attacks conducted over 11 days on u.s. troops in the region.

it was basically, what? a show of force? was it saying, you don't mess with us this way. or something will happen? or does it make you think that it's more than that. and it risks exacerbating the situation and accelerating the prospect of a broader regional war? >> it's a great question because i think the prospects of a greater regional war are real. i -- >> accidentally so? intentionally so? >> there are some terrorist organizations, maybe even the state of iran that would love to see a broader regional war. there are others like the israelis who clearly want to have this focused on gaza. the risk of escalation is real. the united states has this very challenging -- this very real, challenging situation where they have to deter attacks on u.s. troops. a show of force, take out a terrorist camp and say, if you attack this u.s. base, you are going to get hit. well, at the same time at the higher level they have to a

regional war, knowing that the actions to deter at a lower level could spark at the higher level a regional war. that's a tough challenge for america to figure out right now. >> let me switch and talk about domestically what is happening this. week it has been horrific watching what happened in maine. when you look at the mass shooting, killing 18 people, could any sense of gun reform have prevented this tragedy? >> absolute absolutely. >> why is it so hard toet it? >> every single day in iraq i had an assault rifle because that was my job. that was a piece of gear designed to kill people. we don't need that on our streets. we don't need that in the woods to hundred here. >> it's so hard for me to understand why assault weapons are allowed. >> its weapons of war. >> exactly, why is it allowed in private citizens? hands what is the argument that allows them to remain there when they are weapons of war? >> conservative say we have a second amendment right to carry

weapons. they leave out the fact that there are all sorts of weapons that we have outlawed. i had an assault rifle every day with me in iraq. i had to grenades. i never blew myself up, alex. i felt perfectly comfortable walking around with to the grenades. if i were sitting here on your step with two grenades strapped to my chest. i don't think you would feel very comfortable. we, as a society, we have said you're not allowed to walk around with grenades. i don't care who you are. i don't care what the second. says you know at what ground with grenades because their weapons of war. we should say that for assault rifles to. and of story. by the way, let's call it congressman jared goal. a democrat, conservative democrat who has defended the right to carry assault rifles for a long time. he changed his mind. that is political courage. that is real leadership. that is what we need to see from house republicans to get these bands passed. >> i want to applaud him having done. that my producers tell me we have to go to our reporters there. i will say, maybe because it

happened in his backyard, it touched him in a way. he knows that community. some of his constituents potentially were killed. great, just yes. given that greater picture. but honestly, is that what it takes? >> i don't think there is a parent in america who does not worry about their kids going to school because they might get shot. that is scary. it is messed. up >> glad to see you, thank you for coming to the studio. we're gonna have more on that breaking news, police in maine releasing several new details today on the investigation in the mass shootings. tonight, that community will finally be able to grieve together. joining me now from lewistown, maine, nbc's marissa porous, marissa, what more did we learn today? the extensive noon -- >> tell us about tonight's vigil. what is expected? >> yeah, so we learned a lot of new daily details as well confirm some of and nbc's own reporting during that press conference today, alex. one, we discovered the car was found in the back of a tractor trailer less than a mile away

from where his vehicle was found. remember, the extensive search team effort by and the scroggins river. we learned there were a couple firearms found at the scene, legally purchased by him, that was confirmed by someone with law enforcement at the press conference. remember, he died of his self inflicted gunshot wound. you know, there will not say how long they believe card was there. that's been a big question here. did he go there in the immediate aftermath? we'll see on the run? but they did say it appears that, he was wearing the same sweatshirt the night of the attack. they said they will be performing an autopsy to get a little bit of a clear timeline and that will obviously take a lot more time. but they confirmed and the chief and that's nbc's own can pouring on the long gun style gun found in the back of that vehicle that was recovered. they would not specify what kind of gun that was. i know there's a lot of speculation about that one. and they also addressed why the bowling alley behind me. why the barr? they talked about how they had received information from people who knew part, who said that card was hearing voices in

his head that made him believe that people inside of these places were talking about him. and then they addressed that note left behind. here is means commissioner of public safety. >> there has been a number of completely legitimate questions about a note that was found in his residence. this is a paper-style note. i'm not going to read it to you verbatim, but what it is is a note to a loved one and he is saying that this is the pass code for my phone, this is the bank account numbers, and i would not describe it as an explicit suicide note. but the tone and tenor was that the individual was not going to be around. >> so alex, quickly on the other end of this, i will just point out, there are two main parts in terms of what today and moving forward looks like. now they can focus on the investigation part. we have seen evidence response

teams very busy going in and out of the crime scene here, so they can really focus their efforts on that, rather than trying to find and recover card. but now also the community, like you said, can finally come together. many of them have been grieving from the privacy of their own homes, sheltering in place, even after it was lifted, living in fear, having that anxiety hanging over them. and now what we have seen, what i can tell you today, walking around here, going inside of stores, it feels like the floodgates have opened. there's just this release of emotions. we have seen many emotional people finally, it seems like, getting a chance to process the horror of what happened this week -- >> finally. >> because they're talking about it together and really coming together, we have those vigils both tonight and tomorrow already planned. >> yeah, let's hope they help. marissa park, thank you so much. coming up next, a former police investigator on what happened right, what happened wrong in the main aftermath. ahead, the decision a judge made this week that's probably making that donald trump legal camp cringe. and later on this hour, new

revelations about why more members of congress didn't vote to impeach trump after january 6th, and here is a hint, they were scared. but the question of what? i'm going to speak with the author of this new book, romney, a reckoning. we are back in 60 seconds. we are back in 60 seconds. we are back in 60 seconds. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. (♪♪) and you realize you're in love... steve? with a laundry detergent. (♪♪) gain flings. seriously good scent. this is american infrastructure,

a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ >> 18 past with this breaking news. new information just this past hour about the end of the man hunt for the gunman suspected of killing 18 people in maine. authorities confirming the suspect, robert card, died in a self inflicted gunshot wound on friday night. joining me now is retired nypd officer and adjunct lecturer at john j college of criminal justice, julian snyder. jillian, welcome. so, we have the man hunt over. what happens next than in the investigation? >> thank you for having me. so, first and foremost, everyone should feel a great relief that they did apprehend or they found him. i think now it's going to be answering the questions that everyone wants to know. we heard stories and reports that he recently broke up with

his girlfriend, he left his job, he might have had mental issues. but we want to know why. we want to know why these two locations, we want to know how far in advance they can plan. we want to know if anyone else was involved who had prior knowledge. so, i think it's just keeping the investigation ongoing, figuring out why and hopefully we can put a stop to these kinds of things in the future. >> so, among these questions, we certainly had some limited info about robert card. but he clearly had mental health issues. officials a short time ago, you may have heard, said that law enforcement does not have access to any, quote, forcibly committed for treatment information for this suspect. so, does that mean that even a background check, julian, would not have stopped him from purchasing weapons? but do you still want to know about the suspect? >> so, we still are hearing the story that he was committed for about two weeks. that was a military commitment and we don't really know why. we heard, again, this is all

speculation because it will take some time to get accurate and credible, and factual information, regarding, you know, and a diagnosed mental illness he may have had. we've heard, of course, that he had been making threats to people in the public, that he was going to go out and hurt people. but again, until we have a clear diagnosis, law enforcement's hands are really tied in being able to prevent some tragedy like this from happening. >> when we look at what happened there and who is involved, lewiston has a population of 37,000. it only has 17 police officers. how well do you think the local police response was, considering the scale and the severity of this crime? >> i think that lucent police department did a fantastic job. i think that because they are so small, they do rely on inter agency responses, calling from -- jurisdictions, bringing in county, local, state police. most of your agencies in the country are relatively small. they were really well in

collaboration with their partner agencies as well as federal investigators. >> well, we know everyone there is breathing a sigh of relief, but as you heard our reporter say, it is time to process all of this and he'll, and come together to do so. jillian snyder, thank you so much. we look forward to seeing you again on the broadcast. meantime, we have some new details emerging from donald trump's legal cases, and let's just say this. thanksgiving is going to be very awkward this year at mar-a-lago. mar-a-lago mar-a-lago body's poking directly on the nerve. i recommend sensodyne. sensodyne toothpaste goes inside the tooth and calms the nerve down. and my patients say you know doc, it really works. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ before my doctor and i chose breztri for my copd, i had bad days, (cough, cough)

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for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. >> new today, a growing battle home of the xfinity 10g network. over whether new york attorney general, letitia james, can call ivanka trump to testify in the case against her father. new york judge author -- author testified and gave her time to appeal this decision. he also set a schedule for other trump children to testify. don junior, rather, on november 1st, eric, november 2nd. ivanka, scheduled november 3rd. then the former president on november 6th. joining me now, christa greenberg, former federal prosecutor and former deputy

chief of southern district of new york's criminal division. kristie, welcome back to the show. so, is there legal justification for the new york a.g. to compel ivanka's testimony? especially since an appeals court, as you know, previously found that she should not be a defendant in this case. >> but right, so the appeals court that found that ivanka trump should not be a defendant in this case found that because the statute of limitations applied. basically, she had left the trump organization to work at the white house and that happened in around 2017. and so, given her timing there, she cannot be brought into the case. but that does not mean that she doesn't have extremely valuable information for laetitia james's case. and that is why i think ivanka trump's bid to not be called as a witness is going to fail. i mean, she was the primary

contact until 2017 for the trump organization's largest lender, deutsche bank. she worked to save her father as much as 100 and $50 million on 400 million in three loans. she worked to secure really low interest rates. and so, the new york a.g. is going to want to ask her, how did you do that? and part of the way that she did that was providing these statements of financial condition to the bank. and those statements of financial condition have already been found by the court to be fraudulent. so, you know, the new york a.g. is going to want to ask questions about, you know, what was ivanka trump telling the bank when she was providing this information? what was she saying about donald trump's net worth? those are going to be really important details and potentially incredibly damaging to both her father and potentially her brothers. so, it is important testimony and i do anticipate she will be compelled to testify. >> yeah, but thinking about

this. i mean, it's like a scene from succession playing out, right? i mean, how unusual is it for prosecutors to have a family member testify against another? >> well, it isn't unusual when it's a family business and, you know, donald trump was known for putting his children in top positions of responsibility within his business. and so, now that his business is under scrutiny, naturally, the actions of his children are under scrutiny as well. and again, i think, you know, she is somebody who has information that is clearly relevant to the new york a.g.'s case, and she is going to have to take the stand and testify truthfully about it. >> you think she will be there at friday on the -- let me ask you about judge adorn, who slapped trump with a 10,000 dollar find in what he called a dangerous flouting of the gavel of civil fraud case. that was a very sandy that trump stormed out of the court room after coming face to face with that man on the left of

the screen, michael cohen. it was the first time they had done so in years. let's watch this. >> when you look at when i, michael, what did you say? >> i thought a defeated man. i thought somebody that knows that it is the end of the trump organization. >> do you get the sense that trump's courtroom antics, if you will, are performative? or are we actually witnessing the meltdown that could potentially lend trump in jail for contempt? >> so, i think a lot of this is performative. i mean, this is donald trump's ammo. the best defense is a good offense, so i want to distract from the fact that i had a bad day in court, but things are not going well for me in this case, and so, i want to change the headline. so now the headline is about how he's storming out and about how he's attacking this for law clerk, this woman who is just doing her job. and so, i think donald trump is going to keep doing it. he's going to keep up the attacks on witnesses, on the

judges law clerk, he's going to do it because so far, the sanctions have not been so bad. the first one was for $5,000 for the inadvertent violation of the gag order by keeping that initial post where he attacked her on his campaign website. he says that was inadvertent, so he only got fined $5, 000, which is nothing for donald trump. and now this second time he attacks this law clerk, in saying that she was a very partisan person sitting next to the judge and he claims, oh, i wasn't really talking about her, i was talking about michael cohen. well, the judge puts donald trump on the stand, asks him point blank he's talking about, he says it's michael cohen. the judge says, i don't find you to be credible. i mean, what an incredible statement for the former president to not only have attacked a law clerk, but also to have been found to have lied about it. in violation of a court order. so, these are extraordinary times, but i do think, until we, you know, he will continue to

do this until there is a strong enough sanction where it's really going to deter him from doing it again. and the judge is trying to create a very clear record of violations to allow him to be able to impose that kind of a stiff sanctions. even in his written order, he said he could, you know, potentially impose prison. i don't think he's going to go there yet, but he's clearly laying the foundation to be able to do that. if donald trump continues. >> there was another big development we should discuss this week, that fourth plea deal in the georgia election racketeering and conspiracy case. that being attorney jenna ellis, who went from smiles to tears in her apology tuesday in georgia. here is that. we as an attorney who's also a christian, i take my responsibility -- very seriously. what i did not do, i should have done, your honor. it was to make sure that the facts, the other lawyers

alleged to be true, we're, in fact, true. if i knew than what i had no now, i would've declined to represent donald trump in these postelection challenges. >> so, final question here. what do you take away from her statement to the court? the fact that she's the third lawyer agreeing to cooperate with fani willis now and testify against trump. how damning may potentially be? >> so, this is very bad news for rudy giuliani. she is saying in her statement there, i was relying on more experienced lawyers actually provide truthful and reliable information. and basically, i just failed to fact check them and do my due diligence. well, who is she talking about? she's clearly talking about rudy giuliani here. and jenna ellis, unlike sydney powell and kenneth chesebro, jenna ellis's plea, she specifically promised full cooperation to the dea. that includes, it's stated on the record, more interviews, providing documents. she will continue to meet with

prosecutors, so, you know, if she's providing emails and continuing to help the dea as they build their case, that could be very damning for rudy giuliani. i think as to donald trump, it's a bit of a mixed bag. on the one hand, it is significant that you have one of donald trump's lawyers acknowledging now that the voter fraud claims that they made are false, that they were false. so, having one of them do that -- is significant. that said, i think the same story that she is telling about, well, i just believed rudy on the evidence of election fraud and i relied on his experience. well, that's what donald trump is going to say, right? he's going to sing that same tune. so, i think this story doesn't necessarily help advance the ball against donald trump. but again, he's fully promising to cooperate, so expect fani willis and her prosecutors to really work with jenna ellis to determine whether or not, you

know, what it is that donald trump knew, what his involvement was in the story at this time. again, jenna ellis's social media post play suggest she's still very much pro trump and anti prosecutors. so, state to know how that develops. >> stay tuned. we will be having you back as well. crystal greenberg, always a pleasure, thank you. so, we are talking about politics next and some spilling of the t about the senate and maybe some guilt about 2012, the revelations in a new book. k. k. the ball is out and there's a pile-up.

-let's go! -get in the pile! ugh, i'll deal with this tomorrow. you won't. it's ripe in here. my eyes are watering. i'm a busy man. look how crusty this is. shameful. ugh, it's just too much. not with this. tide. tide can tackle any pile. that a tackle pun? just clean the pile, ron. okay. this too. that was easy. when stains and odors pile up, it's got to be tide. >> new revelations on why more

members of congress did not vote to impeach donald trump after january 6th. they come in ronny, a reckoning. it's a new book highlighting notes from senator mitt romney's journals and hours of private conversations with the author. in fact, here's an excerpt. when one senator, a member of leadership, said he was leaning toward voting to convict, the others urgently encouraged him to reconsider. you can't do that, once said. think of your personal safety, said another. think of your children. the senator eventually decided they were right. there were too many trump supporters with guns in his state. author mikal -- is joining me right now. and i don't mind telling everyone that the commercial break, i was -- how -- i hope people pick it up and read it. but my first question to you, mckay, how extensive was this fear? this intimidation among the members of congress? and if fear had not been a concern, how many more

republicans do senator omni think might have voted to impeach trump? >> it was one of the most startling revelations in my reporting for this book, was just how deeply embedded the fear of physical violence from republican constituents was among kind of in the psychology of republican senators. mitt romney told me about, and i heard through other sources as well, about several people, both in the house of representatives and the senate, who were leaning toward voting to convict trump in that second trial, after january 6th. but they were ultimately dissuaded because they were afraid of what would happen to them. mitt romney himself told me that after he did vote to convict, he spoke at a convention in utah with republican activists who were so loud and vociferous, they're booing, hissing, and yelling, that he did have a couple of moments where he wondered if any of them had guns. and i think that speaks to kind of the perilous state we are in right now in our democracy. >> well, it is something i shall see throughout the book,

you do talk about his obsession with the prospect of death. we don't have time to get into that, but if you guys want to read about that, it's in the book. here's a bit more from romney's journals on trump. here is what he writes. unquestionably, mentally unstable and he is racist, bigoted, misogynists, xenophobic, vulgar, and prone to violence. on mike pence, served as a lapdog to trump for four years and on mitch mcconnell, he's not crazy, mitch knows the election was not stolen. and then on the u.s. senate, best understood as a club for old man. there were free meals on site, harbors, and doctors within 100 feet at all times. mckay, it is getting realtime notes, there are no sacred cows. so, how do you describe his outlook? >> well, you know, i think romney, over the last seven or eight years, has become increasingly disillusioned with his own party. increasingly isolated within his party. and especially after january 6th, which is when i started

talking to him for this book, really alarmed about the danger posed by what he considers the authoritarian -- within his party. a lot of those quotes you just read, and there are many others that have been kind of circulating in the news recently, i think reflect a man who feels fundamentally betrayed by the members of the republican party. this party that he wants believing so strongly and now feels has become a vehicle for anti-democratic ideas and zina phobia, and racism. and i think he's really grappling with when that started and how far back it goes. >> there's a boston globe opinion contributor who says that he voted for romney in the 2012 presidential race, but is now blaming roeyor the rise of trump. i want to highlight is paragraph, here's a quote. we could run ads about bill areas, reverent right, and cocaine use, romney wrote in his journal, but that would be inconsistent with the need for an honest debate about the natis challenges, blah, bl bl mckay, the blobs are the

writers opinion that he's putting in their. but does romney have regrets about how he ran his campaign against obama in 2012? >> you know, i thought that piece was interesting that you're citing. i think the argument he's making basically is that romney should've attacked obama harder and tried to win because, of course, if romney had won in 2012, he would've been running for reelection in 2016 and trump probably never would've run for president. i understand that argument but romney feels like he gave it his all in 2012. he's the first to acknowledge and, we talked a lot about this, that he was a deeply flawed presidential candidate, in a lot of ways. but i don't think looking back on that campaign, he wishes that he had run bill airs ads or, you know, brought up obamas youthful drug use. i think if anything, he wishes that maybe he had been a little bit more focused on the issues and not dragged into trying to court the right wing base the way that he was made to. >> but you talk about his disillusionment with a party,, so did he ever entertain the thought that a romney presidency might have prevented

a trump presidency even more than if he had been elected, it could've kept the whole maga element of the party from taking over the gop, as it did under trump? >> it's a great question. he writes in his journal extensively and we talked about this to that in 2012, one thing that he could kind of see the beginnings of the maga movement taking shape, even as he was running in the republican primaries. he said, you know, this was in the era of the tea party and at first, he sort of thought the tea party was about fiscal discipline and deficit reduction, low taxes. he thought he could appeal to them that way. but when he got on the stage is in front of those crowds, those supporters, would he quickly realize is they didn't seem to care that much about fiscal issues. that, in fact, they wanted somebody who was angry and who would throw red meat would, you know, demonize the people that they hated. that became more and more clear to him throughout the 2012 election. i don't know if, you know, he had one, if that would've permanently forestall the rise

of trump or if it would've just put off the rise of a populist right-wing movement like that for a few more years. but of course, he wishes he would've won. >> yeah, of course. let me take a look at another interesting tidbit here that oprah winfrey was increasingly nervous about the weakness of the democratic field in 2020. she doubted that joe biden or pete buttigieg could beat trump and was certain that elizabeth warren could not. she called romney, suggesting maybe a romney, when free ticket could bring together a bipartisan coalition of voters and save america from a second trump term. what more can you tell us about that? >> well, it's funny. mitt romney and anne romney, his wife, had known oprah for a long time and i think that the fact that she called him in 2019 shows both that, you know, she was very concerned about trump getting reelected and also apparently had been, as a report, approached by michael bloomberg about forming a unity to get and she instead kind of went to mitt romney and said,

how about you do this with me? romney ultimately demurred, of course. they didn't run. and he still thinks that a third party ticket, as much as romney himself would love to run as an independent in this upcoming election, he thinks that there are too great a danger that third party ticket would end up helping donald trump and kind of spoiling the race for joe biden, and that's just not a risk romney is willing to take right now. >> okay, well mckay coppins, here's a look, everybody. romney, a reckoning. i want to thank you. planes, trains, automobiles, you've kept me company and i love reading this book. thank you so much, mckay. >> thank, you alex, thanks. >> coming up, we're going to go back to the breaking news in the middle east. the idf says fighter jets, rather, circle 150 underground targets in gaza. how long the ground operation might last.

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of smoke. the idf is sending ground troops in, but insisting this is not the start of the full on ground war. israel says, fighter jets struck 150 underground targets in northern gaza during a very intense night of raids. meantime, protests are underway in the israeli occupied west bank. and i'm sees how -- hala, what is happening here? >> a day after the israeli military announced that expanded ground offensive into gaza, there is still widespread anger in the palestinian territories. -- center of ramallah here in the west bank, monroe square, where we are seeing people gathering. journalists as well as protesters, it is calm right now. but we are hearing anger in people's voices who are saying, the world has essentially forgotten about us, that the palestinians that are being bombed in gaza, it's the same as if they were [inaudible] we are hearing that sentiment

as well and they really, really want [inaudible] the gaza strip to stop. let me show you around a little bit here because i mentioned the center of town, if we can pan over here, we have some police officers there [inaudible] there is no violence, there's [inaudible] really in terms of unrest. but you do get a sense that people feel the need to come together to protest what they see as a grave injustice against their people. let me show you over here, here you're seeing a bit more of an [inaudible] gathering with palestinian flags, men and women alike coming out and wanting to tell the world, really, wanting that message to go out that they are opposed to what israel is doing in response to the horrific attack on october 7th. right now, it is calm. we've seen wider spread protests spread out across the arab world, but people still are saying that they want their

voices heard and they are wanting to talk to us to get the message out. back to you. >> okay, hala gorani, thank you from that from ramallah. we are joining right now for star u.s. army general, barry mccaffrey, a decorated former bentonville commander in vietnam as well as the persian gulf. general, it's awfully good to see you, sir. so, you have these protests in the west bank. those are not surprising. but a new poll shows nearly half of israelis want to hold off on a ground invasion in gaza. is this problematic, sir, for the military? i mean, how much does public support matter? >> well, i am sure public support is at the heart and soul of every political calculation made by netanyahu and his senior political leaders. never mind the idf, you know? israel now has a half million troops under arms, 360,000 are reservists. they all have families. so, obviously, they're all convening here and trying to understand how do we end at up

at the end of this war with hamas not being in charge of governance over the gaza strip? that's what -- it is not going to happen without military pressure. it is a very intense air campaign. we have now seen dozen raids, tank infantry, navy commandoes, aerial assaults going on in gaza city. it is a great tragedy, but i do not believe that at the end of the day, that israel will or could afford to back off trying to destroy the political and military arm of hamas and hopefully end up, in some form, of international supervision of the suffering people in gaza. >> general, i've read about a sense of internal politics within israel that not everybody is on the same page on how to proceed, relative to a ground invasion. so, my question to you, how much do you think that is

responsible for this rather piece dealing? i mean, they're making moves, but it's not full on, as we described earlier. versus trying to take care of the hostages and not make mistakes that would end up killing hostages, which they do not want to do. how much is it political versus strategic for the hostages? >> well, i think the hostages are in great peril. there are no two ways about it. hamas has held hostages for years at a time. now they've got 224 or more hostages. they are not going to let them go. they've got 30 infants and children, they've got older people who are in front, they've got sexually assaulted women, some of them have undoubtedly already been killed by hamas. so, the hostages are a great block that the really people are focused on. but again, i think at the end of the day, the collective will of the israeli people, is they

can't live with -- they saw -- on the 7th of october. 1400 people rulli murdered. that was a planned operation, it was deliberate, it was to terrorize the israeli state. hamas is dedicated to eliminating israel. so, what we are seeing now really are shaping military operations. they're trying to knock out as much as possible the hamas chain of command. they are now working very intense air campaign, working on actually killing the leadership of fighting units. they're pushing hamas back from the border region, so they don't end up with a -- attack, a couple thousand hamas terrorists inside israel again. this is a brutal campaign. we've not seen the end of it. it's going to get worse before it gets better. >> general, i just want to tell our audience and you, sir, while you've been speaking, we have just learned that israeli

prime minister benjamin netanyahu will be holding what is being called a press conference. that's going to be at 1:30 pm hour time here, so coming up in about 35 minutes. so we will, of course, be monitoring that and bring that to you. that said, with regard to the hostages again, hamas has a command center under a main hospital and there are reports that their command center, right there, is intentional being under a hospital thinking, well, israel will not target a hospital for humanitarian reasons. i mean, how strategic is that? is that typical for hamas and the way they go about planning where they're going to target, where they're going to camp out? >> well, there is no question. i mean, it's not just the hostages, it's also the palestinian people. you know, thousands of them, as many as 30,000 maybe cluster down the hospital right now, trying to seek safety. they know they're colocated with hamas underground command and control center. it's difficult to imagine how

the israelis are going to handle this. but at the end of the day, i think they are persuaded they have to go in on the ground, dominate the streets, and then use rewards and their own hostages of palestinian hamas political leadership to try and get intelligence and recover some or many of the hostages. but a ground campaign in an urban center, unfortunately, over 1 million palestinians have moved south into greater relative safety from an intent ground -- operation. at the end of the day, the idf, it may be looking at, you know, thousands of military casualties. i think the operation if they finally go will be relatively quick above ground and then there will be weeks of an attempt to sort out the underground tunnels and continuing and during hostilities in the west bank, potentially in the north of israel, from hezbollah.

this is a very dangerous situation for israel. >> indeed. our friend, retired four star u.s. army general, barry mccaffrey, sir, thank you so much for your insights. and this may be the most important story we tell today about what happened in maine. about what happened in maine. on top of the worlddddd!!! before advil. advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. when pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liqui-gels. my skin has been so much smoother so much more hydrated. it's olay! with olay hyaluronic body wash 95% of women had visibly-better skin. and my skin is so much more moisturized. see the difference with olay.

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friends, with lives that mattered. nbc news has verified the identities of seven killed at the bowling alley, including bill young and his 14 year old son, aaron. trisha iselin, shot while trying to call 9-1-1. michael jewelry the second and jason walker, described as childhood friends and heroes who made sure their wives and children were safe. coach bob violet, a bowling instructor teaching kids at the time of the shooting and tommy conrad, a manager at the bowling alley. nine killed at the bar and grill, many were there to play the beanbag throwing game, corn hole. brian mcfarland, steve adela, and billy brackett were taking part in a coal hone cornhole competition for death players. joshua seal was a sign language interpreter. joseph, joey, walker was a manager at the bar. peyton brewer-ross was a new dad known for making jokes. arthur stroud was playing pool with his dad when he was

killed. ron moran was a husband and a father who also kept his family laughing. and max hathaway stayed back to play pool after his pregnant wife and toddler had left the bar. nbc's -- spoke with one of the families. >> elizabeth steele lost her husband, josh. >> first and foremost, he was an amazing dad to his four kids. >> we spoke to the family through a friend and asl interpreter. >> what do you want people to know about your husband? but >> i think those people who already know my husband, they were lucky. he was amazing. for those who did not know him, they lost out. >> josh seal, seen here with his wife and family, and as we said, he was playing in a cornhole tournament when the gunman burst in wednesday night. a very good day to all of you