and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> that is it for today. i am alicia menendez. i want to thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. be sure to follow this show outline, our handles across all platforms are at alicia an msnbc. i will see you here tomorrow six pm eastern for more american voices. right now, i handed over to my colleague, ayman mohyeldin. >> it's good to see you, i was thinking about what i want to ask you about in our little hand over here. i was thinking between mike pence dropping out, matt gaetz saying the quiet part out loud, that meghan has taken over the republican party, or the new speaker of the house talking about how he basically wants to govern through a religious

doctrine. i am not sure what is worse out of all of those. >> i do not know, myself. but striking to me that they all happened in the same week. >> yeah, incredible. it says a lot about the state of our politics, and we are going to talk a little bit about that tonight. it's always good to see you, my friend. thank you. good evening and welcome to ayman tonight, breaking developments in the israel hamas war and benjamin netanyahu getting grilled by the press for his leadership failures. then house republicans unanimously supporting an election denier. the dangerous man who just became speaker of the house, plus, find and threaten, donald trump's gag order violations are having terrible consequences for the ex president. we are going to talk about that and more. i am ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ we start with news overseas. late breaking developments in the israel-hamas war.

these really military has officially expanded its ground operations in the gaza strip. right now, tanks and infantry are operating inside, after being sent inside the territory late last night. in doing so, the israeli military has now said it has moved into another stage of its war. the video you see now was released by the israeli military, and nbc news cannot independently verify it. israel has also escalated its bombing campaign, with airstrikes underway as we speak. the bombardment has been nonstop, according to nbc news reporters on the ground. the israeli military has also said its fighter jets struck a number of military targets belonging to hezbollah in the lebanon and that is in response to the rockets and missile fire coming from the northern border. we should make clear, this escalation does not represent the ground invasion that has been widely discussed and sought. but an expansion of ground operations. prime minister benjamin netanyahu said his, quote,

straightforward goal is to bring home hostages, and destroy hamas. >> >> translator: our fight inside the gaza strip will be long and difficult, but we are prepared for that. this is our second war of independence. we will fight for the protection of our homeland. and we will fight on the ground, in the air, in the sea. we will eliminate the enemy, above the ground and beneath the ground. we will fight, and we will win. >> it is nearly impossible for outside journalists to know what exactly is happening on the ground inside gaza, because foreign journalists are not able to get inside. but an nbc news crew member inside was able to send a dispatch earlier saying, quote, no water, no food, no medicine, no fuel, no electricity. and the bombing does not stop. and while the world has been focused on gaza, the occupied west bank has experienced its deadliest period in 15 years,

with violence they are surging since the october 7th attacks. the palestinian prisoners authority says 25 people were apprehended there in a series of israeli overnight arrests. and today, palestinian farmer was shot dead by a settler as he was harvesting olives near the village of bilal saleh according to haaretz. nbc's, live ellison barber joins me now. from the israel gaza border. ellison, it's great to have you with us. i know you've been reporting on our air throughout the day. you've been seeing these explosions on the other side of the border from where you are standing. tell us what you know about how the second part of the operation is, this expanded ground operation is going so far, for the israeli military. >> you can probably, will likely see and hear it as we are talking to you here. but as we keep an eye on the skyline of northern gaza, the booms of artillery headed in the direction of gaza is constant. and there will often be just explosions that you can see happening inside of gaza.

the sky will just turn to this reddish orange, and you will see that pocket, in some ways, in some moments, the explosions we have seen, a couple of them have been so big that, if you were to pause the shot, it looks like you are looking at the sunset. but you are not. you are looking at -- when that happens -- an explosion inside of gaza. and the reality is, every time you hear that, you probably hear, that it sounds like thunder. those booms, there are likely civilians on the other side being impacted. you touched on the fact that we don't have a lot of information from inside of gaza. for more than 30 hours now. because there is almost a complete communications blackout. some people have been able to get messages out here and there, including our nbc news team. but the people who are doing that -- it mostly seems to be people who have international phones with international sim cards, or some sort of satellite phone to get a message out. so, we have not been able to get a clear sense of what it is like on the ground in gaza since israel has entered what they described as the second phase of war.

but before, all of this started, before before israeli forces were inside of northern gaza and staying there, remember they carried out a couple -limited raids -- that's how they describe it prior to this. but i have not had forces inside of gaza quite like what we believe is happening now, based on what the israeli military has said, and also based on some post on social media from hamas's military wing. but before this, it was a humanitarian catastrophe inside of gaza. now, you have to imagine it has only gotten much worse. one of the messages -- only two of them that we have gotten from our nbc news team inside of gaza -- they said every single block is being impacted. they described it as a bombardment bombing like they have never seen since this war began in the nearly three weeks since it started. and they said that people inside of gaza, palestinian civilians, were carrying the dead and injured to try and get them help in trolleys and tuk-tuks the palestinian red cross, they said they have very

limited communications with their staff on the ground. but they got one message, which they described as a very rare one, in the last couple of hours, where their team is telling them that at least three of their ambulances could not operate because they were out of fuel. they said they were using just 27 ambulances inside of gaza. that was from the palestinian red crescent. and ayman, i think back to a conversation with someone i had back in gaza. and i messaged him today, not necessarily trying to get any news to report, but just trying to see whether or not he was safe. that message has not been delivered. he has not read it. but prior to this, he was talking to me about what life was like inside of gaza. and he said, in our neighborhood -- and they live in southern gaza, remember? that's where israeli forces have told people to evacuate to. he said, every night they would hear aerial bombardments in the area. every night they would hear at least one, usually more israeli airstrikes where he lived. and he said the only bakery in that area had been hit. i asked him if he had gotten to the point of where he was

having to ration his food and water. and he did not want to use that word. but essentially, the answer was yes. he told me, we feed the children first. we make sure we feed the children. and then we eat whatever is left over. that was four days ago. since then, things have gotten so much worse. and we know, even prior to this, less than 100 humanitarian aid trucks had made its way into gaza, and that had been described by a number of outside groups as a drop in the ocean of need at best. and tonight, what we are hearing, what we heard last night, it has been the heaviest, most sustained bombardments inside of northern gaza that we have heard in the three weeks we have been reporting alongside the section of the border. ayman? >> all right, nbc's ellison barber starting us off this hour. ellison, thank you so. much let's bring in middle east analyst aaron david miller, a senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace to help us unpack all of this.

it's great to see you again, aaron. it's a lot to discuss today. we will start with that press conference from the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. in a line that stood out to me he called this, quote, this war, the second war, israel's second independence, second war of independence. help us impact unpack what that means. will this genuinely fall as israel's second independents? to try to get rid of hamas once and for all? or is he saying, what is at stake here in terms of the fight for israel? of course, israel's war of independence conjures up a completely different feeling for the palestinians and the memories of the nakba. >> and by the way the prime minister quoted shakespeare as well. sort of elevating tropes, to be or not to, be in reference to a state -- choice. to exist, or not to exist. so, clearly, the prime minister's frame is an existential one. and there's no doubt that it follows his language, his penchant for drama, and also the conviction, i think, that

what happened on october 7th, the slaughter and brutality, represents a key inflection point, not just because it represents an intelligence failure. sure, that was -- there was one. but it was also an operational failure. it was the threat and fear married to helplessness, which is a feeling, i think, palestinians in gaza feel as well. that the idf was not able to reach those southern communities bordering gaza, from anywhere to three to, in some cases, ten or 11 hours. so, this is inflection point. he laid out again that the objective is no less than to eradicate and to and -- not just hamas's military capacity -- it's very capacity and ability to govern in gaza. and i think that, really, is

the objective that they set. i also think the israelis are extremely uncertain and divided about whether or not they have the military capacity to carry out this set of operations. big which is why you have seen the announcement of the ground and the defense minister, gallant, i think made clear that this is going to be an operation that is going to be a roll out in phases. and he also made clear that it is the operational clock that will drive matters here. an implicit warning to the united states -- not a warning, but perhaps a question of -- that he will listen to our friends, quote unquote. but we will, in the end, do what is right for us. and that, i think, poses significant challenges for the biden administration, and for the current israeli endeavor. >> i thought one of the interesting parts -- and correct me if i'm wrong, sometimes -- i know how robust the israeli press is. but the question of the israeli press, the prime minister

wanting to take -- lack of responsibility. what did you make of how the discourse is in israel right now about the future, and the political survive ability, if you will, of this government? and it seems that the prime minister is deflecting that down the road to a time after the war. so, some have speculated that he is fighting on two fronts. he's fighting the war against hamas to destroy it, but he's also fighting for his own political survival ability. >> there is no doubt about that. the average -- efficiency independents 1. 8 years. in december, these early government will reach its one year mark. in 1973, in the wake of another intelligence failure, in terms of the egyptian surprise attack against the israelis in the sinai, the -- supreme court appointed a presidential -- excuse, me a state commission inquiry, and filed an interim report eight months later, an interim report eight months later, identifying security, military and intelligence leaks

as responsible for the failure. but public demanded the regulation resignation golda meir -- judicial overhaul which has divided the country, and from that, there will be a moment of reckoning for mr. netanyahu. but for the moment, it is all talk of unity. and the objective at hand, which, as the prime minister laid out, twofold. destroy hamas on one hand and -- the hostages on the other is an extremely tall order for one reason. even if the israelis managed to eradicate hamas's military structure, kill its top leaders, demolish its rocket inventories, command and control facilities, the reality is, to prevent a

resurgence of hamas. the day after is going to be incredibly important. >> all right. >> it's sort of an irony. it may be described as the second war of israeli independence. but the israelis are going to become deep -- on any number of actors who are going to have to stand up and rise up in order to create a new reality in gaza. and that is a tall order -- distracted, divided, and preoccupied with so many other problems. >> aaron david miller, it's always a pleasure. greatly pre shaven size and all of. this thank you so much for taking time for us tonight sir. >> thank you for, having me ayman. >> coming, up the new house speaker is an election denier who led efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. when we come back, our attention turns here to the u. s.. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage—

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finally has a new speaker after more than three weeks of chaos and free failed candidates, republicans managed to get their act together for a very brief moment this week, electing then none other than congressman mike johnson of louisiana. if you have just heard that name for the first time, you are not alone. the little known legislator has kept a relatively low profile since joining congress back in 2017, boasting a solidly conservative voting record. johnson is perhaps best known in his caucus for playing a key role in the efforts by then president donald trump and his

allies to overturn the 2020 election results. yes, you heard that correctly. and in fact, last year, the new york times called johnson, quote, the most important architect of the electoral college objections in 2020. and now we are learning even more about his role in trump's failed efforts. politico is out with a deep dive into the extent to which johnson personally counseled trump on his election challenges. the report also has new details about an impassioned speech johnson gave to his colleagues just one day before rioters stormed our capitol. during that closed-door caucus meeting, johnson evoked god and prayer, urged the gop to rally around trump, and object to counting electoral votes submitted by a handful of states joe biden won. by january 6th, the louisiana congressman, a constitutional lawyer, had already helped trk aft an amicus briefing in a texas lawsuit urging the supreme court to consider

invalidating the results of the 2020 election in georgia -- pennsylvania and wisconsin. johnson managed to get more than 100 republican members of congress to sign on and effectively gave lawmakers a more palatable way to carry out trump's dirty war without having to endorse his big lie. but right now, as we quickly approach another presidential election, when that is likely to be a rematch of 2020, the danger lies not and what johnson did in the past, but what he could do with his newfound power in the future. this is a guy who is now second in line to the presidency. let's bring in my panel, kurt bardella, a contributor for the los angeles times, a former spokesperson for the house oversight republicans. and jill wine-banks, former watergate special prosecutor, also an msnbc legal analyst and of course the co-host of the sisters in law podcast. good to have you with us. jill, i will start with you. -- trump's efforts to overturn the

2020 election. how crucial was he in playing the legal groundwork there, both in the texas lawsuit and in congress before the certification of the vote? >> he was very important in that. he was someone who got the amicus brief going and pushed people to join in to fight in court, which -- that's a legal thing to do. go to court and you challenge things. but he knew that none of what he was saying was true. and if you look at his record, and i have to admit i, like most americans, i never heard of him until all of a sudden he was the nominee. and the more research i did, the more appalled i got. he is anti everything that i believe in. he's anti lgbtq. he's anti-feminism. he is against women. he blames women for everything in the world. so, obviously, i don't like him. and i am frightened. the only thing that gives me any hope is that our vice

president will be in charge of counting the ballots in 2024. so, i am not -- 2025, because it will be january. and that gives me great hope that we don't have to worry about someone who is an election denier and a fact denier being the one in charge. he won't be. that is the only thing that gives me hope, although i worry in between what legislation will pass, or not be considered. >> yeah, you might not pass because joe biden would have to sign off on it. but certainly, what they can do on a state level could really have a tremendous amount of impact on our states and the secretaries of states. kurt bardella, let me get your thoughts on this. donald trump didn't exactly endorse the louisiana lawmaker for speaker. he had his favorites. but he did take to truth social to post this strong suggestion to go with johnson. what is johnson's whim reveal about the iron grip trump still has on the gop?

we heard matt gaetz say, this shows that maga now runs the republican party, and it's on the ascent. >> yeah, i guess we will find out how true that really is. because if there comes a situation where maga -- does something that donald trump does not approve of, and don't have voices that and, you know what? actually, i've changed my mind. east carroll. easy worst speaker in history, does that mean that this cycle we just live through starts over again? we have seen time and again, anybody who is aligned with donald trump, at some point, it seems like you are going to end up on the opposite side of him. and if you don't believe me, just go ask anyone who has been his lawyer who is now in a position where they are testifying against him. so, you don't think that it gets any closer than your attorney. so, if everyone who pretty much legally represented this guy ends up on the opposite side of

him in the courtroom, that does not really bode well for having his, quote, endorsement right now. because it is just a matter of time before you do something that he does not like, and then all of a sudden he is taking to truth social and he is a pining opining -- laughable, he is in over his head. he has no idea what he is doing. he has no track record of leadership. it has never been ethan ago shading table with the president of the united states, the senate democrat or senate republican leader. this is going to end incomplete is after and chaos, as is everything, really, that comes near the orbit of donald trump. >> yeah, he's about to learn the hard way. because, in about, i'd probably say, like, maybe three weeks from now, in the middle of november, we are going to have to deal with all kinds of crises. but most importantly the government may shut down when the funding bill has to be negotiated again. and we are going to find ourselves in the same exact part.

so, i guess, kurt, my question to you is, have we -- or, not we -- but have the republicans solved anything by the election of this maga extremist other than, just kick the can down the road for three weeks? >> no, they have actually boxed themselves in. because here's the reality. if you do what donald trump and the maga universe wants you to do, kiss your majority goodbye. if you go all in on being anti-woman, if you go all in on being anti lgbtq. if you go in on being anti-diversity, if you actually go and believe in things like separation of church and state, guess what? this guy is going to lead you into the political abyss. so, your choices are to either do what the maga people want, shut down the government, ensue more chaos, if we have not had enough of that coming from the house of representatives over the last month. or do something that just alienates you from the maga universe, and then you end up repeating the cycle of kicking at the speaker in trying to find somebody else. it is just bad choices, all around right now for this riderless party. >> yeah, we wasted a month for republicans to get their act together before they can even begin talking about a spending bill for the next year. kurt bardella and jill wine-banks, please don't go anywhere, stick around.

we are going to talk to you a little bit after the break. donald trump has been fined and threatened with jail time for violating the terms of his gag order. what does that mean? that is next. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do.

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unexpectedly ordered trump to explain himself under oath. trump said the person he was talking about was michael cohen, who had just been on the witness stand, and not the judges law clerk, who was the subject of an earlier, scathing social media post by trump. trump had originally been slapped with the gag order for that earlier post and was fined $5,000 just last week after was discovered that trump's campaign website was still displaying the post. in total, trump has been fined now $15,000 for violating the terms of the order. and judge engoron has indicated he would consider jailing trump for future violations. naturally, trump reacted by storming out of the courtroom with his secret service agents chasing after him and audible gasp from the crowd. let's bring back kurt bardella and jill wine-banks. jill, this is now the second time trump has violated his gag order. he has shown no indication that he is going to stop. what is the likelihood that the judge will make good on his

threat of prison time against trump, if he keeps violating this order? >> this is a position that no judge wants to be in. because of the political consequences of doing it. not a legal consequences. if this was anyone not named donald trump, they would have already been jailed for contempt, and for violating the law. the procedure is very clear, that when you have a gag order, it is legitimate. and it must be obeyed. and i agree with you that, honestly, there is no chance that he will not violate it again. and 15,000 is not going to have an impact on him. 50,000, 500,000 -- he is getting the money from his political supporters. i don't think that will stop him. the only thing that will stop him is jailing him. but that, i am sure, kurt would like to say, will cause some we'll awful political consequences.

so, it is something that the judge has to weigh. do i go all the way to jail? or do i just keep raising it? and remember, this is a judge who said, you are not credible. i don't believe when you say it was michael cohen. if it was michael cohen, you would have used his name, because you have done that before. you have not made yourself credible. so, he has already found that he was guilty of fraud, and that he is guilty of lying in court under oath when he was saying, well, i meant michael cohen. i did not mean your clerk. baloney. >> right. kurt, your reaction to trump storming out of the courtroom? he has been under tremendous metal pressure this week, not just because what is happening in that courtroom but i suspect because he is feeling the pressure of what is happening also in georgia. and this is a guy who, probably, has no ability for self discipline and control. do you think this is him being angry that he is finally in a position, where he can't bully his way, or bully someone into doing what he wants? >> yeah. trump is your textbook narcissist.

what happens to a narcissist when you stand up to him? he gets smaller. he gets angry. he lashes out. he acts like a child. that is exactly what you saw as he left that courtroom the other day. and that is what is going to continue to happen. donald trump has lived a life of privilege, where he has been able to lie, commit fraud, and never truly be held accountable for his bad behavior. well, the court of law changes that. it's not even about the amount of money. it is about that donald trump believes that it is ludicrous that anybody would impose on a fine of any kind against him for talking. he cannot wrap his arms around that. he cannot wrap his arms around the ability of somebody else -- someone someone that he thinks is beneath him -- ordering him to do something. it is the power dynamic that is driving him crazy. and i just have to say, running for president should not be a shield from our legal system. donald trump should be treated the same way anybody else would be. and if that means if he keeps doing what he is doing, and ultimately gets put in jail, he has it coming. he's asking for.

he is basically daring the court to do that, because he does not believe that will ever happen. and i think we are going to get to a point where he is going to keep doing this, he is going to keep mouthing off, violating the gag order. and i think the judge is going to have no choice but to hold him accountable to the fullest extent of the powers that the court grant them. >> yeah -- as we showed under the law, everybody should be treated equally here, and no difference regardless of position in society. trump was, jill, issued a gag order in the election case by judge tanya chutkan after making similar attacks on her. she paused it while trump's lawyers appealed, but now special counsel jack smith is urging her to reinstate it, arguing trump is engaging in witness intimidation against mark meadows in going after him on social media. and it goes back to your point. is he being offered something that normal people, ordinary civilians, or citizens, would not be granted? what should the judge do here? >> i think --

as i said, this judge and judge engoron are both in difficult positions. i have talked to a number of judges, and they all say, this is really hard to impose. but they also recognize that there is no alternative. you have to. if you look at the e. jean carroll case, he got fined, what was it? $5 million? and the next day he re-defamed her. so, he is back in court. and because it is supposed to stop the bad behavior, the next fine is going to have to be double, triple, quadruple that, because obviously, 5 million did not stop him. will it take ten? 50? i don't know how many millions it will stop him. does it take jail? and we have had witnesses go to jail in other cases. but we have never had a former president, who is the defendant. and i hope that, if it were me, i would have the courage to say, he has to go to jail to shut him up.

he cannot continue to put his thumb in the eye of the justice system. and that is what he is doing. he is just totally ignoring the gag order. and the gag order is very fair. i don't think any other defendant would have gotten the judge to lift the order while it was being appealed. and he did. and the next day, he created another violation of the order. so, we can predict that he will keep on doing it. >> all right, kurt bardella, and jill wine-banks, thanks to the both of you for joining us this hour. i greatly appreciate it, as always. up next, the u.s. is looking remarkably isolated after opposing the u. n. resolution calling for a humanitarian truce in gaza. stay with us. yeah, i'm ready. is your treatment leaving you with uncontrolled symptoms? like the cover-it-ups and brush-it-offs? enough with good enoughs. don't stay hiding or hurting. when your lotions and creams don't do enough to help treat the inflammation beneath the skin,

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approved resolution this week that called for a, quote, immediate, durable and sustained humanitarian truce in gaza. 120 countries voted in support of the resolution. just 14 voted against. it the united states was one of those 14 countries. even major american allies like france, spain, and the united kingdom -- thctually refused to vote against the motion. it was an illustrative moment, demonstrating how america is now an outlier on the diplomatic front of israel's war on against hamas, and it comes as we are also seeing how america and israel are outliers in public opinion in many places around the world. hundreds of thousands of people, protesters across the middle east, asia, africa, europe, here in the united states, including in many western capitals, have been rallying in support of palestinians, as well as calling for a cease-fire. these protesters, by a large, have called for an immediate when inside gaza. joining me now is joel reuben, former deputy assistant secretary of state during the

obama administration. somebody who understands the dynamics of public pressure. joel, it's great to see you, as always, my friend. >> thanks, ayman. >> let me start by getting your thoughts on this united nations resolution. it passed 120 to 14. it is obviously symbolic more than it is tactical, actually ending or calling or bringing about a cease-fire. but it is important, nonetheless. what kind of power does it carry both in terms -- real terms and symbolically? >> yeah, ayman, it's great to be with you, always. to your point, there are two kinds of resolutions. there is the binding one that the security council passes. that is not what this is. for those resolutions are very significant in terms of requiring countries to take certain actions. and then there are the nonbinding ones, as we just saw, and as you are describing. that is an indicator of global opinion and public support, or lack thereof.

and without a doubt about israel now understands there is significant global pressure against goading going further in its invasion, and in its attacks on gaza. and these are justified responses. i do believe israel is engaged in defending its territory. but it also has to be incredibly mindful in terms of what it is doing in terms of the humanitarian crisis and how it is observing international law. and those are red lines that even president biden has put out. and that, in many ways, that is the sort of zeitgeist that, therefore, israel, in how far will and -- president biden let israel go in terms of coming close to international law violations. >> yeah, you bring up a really good point about trying to thread that needle between what israel and america say it can and should do as a result of the terrorist attacks on october 7th, and what the international community wants to do to protect palestinian lives -- innocent lives -- inside the gaza strip. and there is clearly a dissonance when it comes to the situation in gaza, with the united states and its allies. and despite that, joel rubin,

the u.s. government is very clear about it support for israel and its war efforts. and earlier today there was this moment in the press conference where israeli officials were referencing the close relationship to the u.s., and thanks to the u.s. for all of support, almost as if they were -- i would say trying to say that the u.s. is right in this with them. and so long as the u.s. is in this with him, they are going to keep going head. what do you make of this kind of dynamic? and the isolation that the u. s. and israel find themselves in? >> it is no secret that the united states -- we are israel strongest ally, closest friend, and biggest backer in terms of military assistance. but also on a variety of engagements and a variety of components of our bilateral relations. look, without the united states backing israel they would be practically no ability for israel to continue to go forward. but that, still, is not what is the question. the question for israel is, how does it eradicate hamas and it's terrorist infrastructure, dismantle it in a manner that protects its civilians?

and in that -- there is really no daylight between the united states and these really government. but israel does, and benjamin netanyahu clearly does, wants to make sure he is hugging the united states and validating his efforts. but he has to be careful. because if he goes too far, he is going to face some response back. and i think president biden has publicly and privately communicated that there needs to be a component that has the commensurate needs of the palestinians right now. >> to that point, what do you think that breaking point is? obviously, publicly, we are probably not going to see, it right? the reporting now -- it is a lot of reporting here, at least certainly in the u. s. media, about the administration's private discussions with israel. trying to help them crystalize how this operation plays out. i agree with you. nobody disagrees, what israel and americas objective and intentions are here. >> yeah. >> but where do you think that breaking point comes, where there is going to be a public statement of graver concerned

than what we have heard so far? >> so, ayman, past is prologue, a couple of years ago, when there is a major flare-up between israel and hamas, it took 5 to 6 days for president biden to weigh in. so, my sense is he is going to give israel ltime, enough time to demonstrate that it is really making gains. and this is the end of the beginning, but not really the beginning of the end, as they say. and for israel, prime minister netanyahu, he's talking about how this can be very long. i don't think he has that much time. i would say it would be in the amount of weeks. and in particular, if the humanitarian crisis is not alleviated -- if we begin to see, as we are seeing currently, humanitarian suffering because of lack of medicine, lack of food, lack of water, even if it is hamas to blame. and i believe it is hamas to blame for those deficits, for their people, starving and suffering, that, nonetheless, will still push and put a lot of pressure on president biden, to tell prime minister netanyahu he needs to putting a

pause, and really delay. and we are talking weeks. it cannot be much longer than that, is my assessment. >> yeah, i think it highlights just how difficult this operation is, both tactically, as well as strategically, even if there is a consensus on what has to be done. joel rubin, always a pleasure my friend. thanks so much for joining us. >> thanks, ayman. >> coming up, aid workers say they are having to make some very tough decisions to address the humanitarian crisis unfolding in gaza. we are going to explain what that means, next. , next that. i'm hungry, i'm in a hurry, i don't have time to make anything healthy. you could if you had a blendjet. blendjet? it's the portable blender that makes the healthy choice the most convenient choice. i don't know. it seems like a hassle. hahaha! wrong. just pour in some milk, add some frozen fruit, and bam! you've got a nutritious and delicious smoothie. mmm! that is good. you're welcome, sad office guy. get yours today at blendjet.com are we in in an ad? we sure are. i'm kareem abdul jabbar.

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begin to describe the humanitarian crisis that is unfolding in gaza. -- as israel continues its almost nonstop bombardmt the strip, fuel has become so scarce that, earlier this ek, the united nations relief and works agency, which provides critical aid treds of thousands of civilians palestinian civilians say they may have to make some, quote, very tough decisions if they don't get. more -- residents have to line up for hours for bread and water, and the reason tell system and civil order are on the brink of, quote, complete collapse. that is according to the united nations. joining me now is dr. joel zahev president of med global. and international medical nonprofit that currently has a team inside gaza. doctor, thank you so much for joining us this evening. i don't even know where to begin to describe this. but i just wanted to get your sense of what it means when we hear organizations like the

united nations relief works agency so they are going to have to make some very tough decisions, including hospital workers because fuel is running out and supplies are dwindling. what does that mean? >> thank you for having me, ayman. i think what that means means that doctors and administrators and hospitals and others will have to make tough decisions, on which patient and which condition they have to let go. let's go means left them die. because you have a huge influx of patients who are severely, critically ill, many of them are injured. and there's very limited resources to treat them. and these resources of the medical supplies, the specialist, the nurses, beds in the hospitals, icu beds. and of course, electricity. i have been in gaza for times. so, all hospitals in gaza, they depend on electrical generators. if there is no fuel for electrical generators, that means the -- cannot operate, operating rooms cannot operate, elevators can't

operate. and incubators won't operate. that means patients in the icu will die at some point, if there is no electricity. newborn incubators will die. and all functions, or functions of hospitals will stop working. and this is the dilemma that they are facing right now, doctors and hospitals in gaza. besides, of course, the bombing in the fact that many hospitals are targeted themselves, and there's lack of food and medical supplies and also clean water. and that their families themselves affected by the bombing. on our team, we have a team of eight humanitarians, doctors and nurses. two of them lost family members and lost their houses because of the bombing. and then on top of that, you have the evacuation from hospitals in the north. so, this is really the worst i have seen in disaster areas. and i have been in yemen, i've been in syria, i've been in ukraine, and gaza multiple times. this is the worst. >> let me ask you about one of your colleagues. something you tweeted out this

morning, one of the last messages you received from another physician, before you lost communication with him. he wrote, quote, let us talk more if i remain alive. don't forget us. pray for us. i have to say it is a sentiment that we are hearing across the board from journalist, from doctors, from civilians. but just give me your thoughts on how dire it is for people like that, and just not even being able to confirm if he is alive or dead hours later. >> it is heartbreaking. and this message, i received more than 48 hours ago. and i was not able to communicate with him since then. and we were talking about a child that he seen in his hospital, and he's a british pediatrician in -- her name is -- she is ten years old. she lost all of her family members and she had a fracture on her skull and her limbs, and injuries in her liver. he was telling me about the girl and he was telling me

about her, and he gave the news, and he said, this is probably the last message before the internet will be cut. and let's talk, if i stay alive, and pray for us if not. the same thing, i have seen similar messages from our nurse, regiah, who said, if i die, please take care of my children. this is heartbreaking. i don't know how we operate as a humanitarian trying to help people in gaza, without news, without information, without communication from them. and this blackout lasts at least until now -- i know there is some good news, which is elon musk said he is offering to provide air link for the service of the people of gaza, but that takes a lot of logistics to -- >> yeah, i think getting starlink in it would be a huge game-changer for international aid organizations. but let me ask you about -- there's this kind of dichotomy right now about, oh, if we just let in aid, the bombardment and the war can.

continue. but as we have heard, the amount of aid that is coming in right now is nowhere enough to meet the needs of medical workers and the civilian population in gaza. how much repair needs to happen in order to get the medical health care system in gaza from, as united nations have said, near total collapse, back up and running again? >> before this war, every day, as everyone knows, there are 500 trucks -- from the north and south. 400 from the north, 100 from the south, from rafah. right now we have only 85 or 84 trucks for the past 20 days or so. we are supposed to have 10,000 trucks in those 20 days. and the peace situation. we need to know that, in every day, in every day in the hospital in gaza, we are consuming worth of one month of medical supplies. so, you can imagine the needs in medicine only. on top of that we have, of course, scarcity of food. and people are fighting for bread. most of the batteries have stopped working, because of the

lack of flour and, the lack of diesel fuel. of course, we have polluted water. so that is adding to the travesty. so, we need really a much bigger operation in terms of the aid, not only the 84 trucks. but we need airlift. and we need multiple areas and border crossings to get the aid, not only from the bottleneck in rafah, because there is a huge limitation in rafah. because of many issues. bureaucratic and a lack of adequate testing and security. every truck takes four days in rafah to get inside gaza. it has to go through seven levels of security before it gets in. and this is a huge problem. >> yeah, huge problem indeed, one that may take a generation to recover from. dr. zaher sahloul, thank you so much for your expertise. i greatly appreciate you making time for us tonight. >> thank you, ayman. >> we are going to have another hour of "ayman" after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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