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deeper into northern gaza, and what prime minister netanyahu is calling the second stage the war on hamas. we are live in israel, with the latest on the unfolding escalation, and gaza communications coming back online, after days in the dark. and breaking overnight, the loss of a friend who was always there for us. what we're learning about the sudden and shocking death of friends star matthew perry. plus, a family affair. a new york judge orders ivanka trump to testify in -- 250 million-dollar fraud case, alongside her quadruple indicted former president father, and two other trump children. how this testimony can impact trump trials, and what the gop presidential front runner doesn't have a plea deal -- in georgia. all of that, and more, is coming up.

>> and the good sunday morning to you all. i am katie phang. we begin today's show with new developments in the israel-hamas war. the israeli military expanding its ground operations in gaza, in what prime minister netanyahu is calling the second stage the war. after -- israeli tanks and infantry operating inside of gaza, the idf says that its forces are in the field, and will continue to fight. nbc has not independently verified the contents of this video. and, overnight, the gaza strip was hit with a nonstop bombardment of israeli airstrikes. so far, the idf said its fighter jets have destroyed more than 450 hamas targets in gaza. the escalation has left the families of more than 200 hostages, including some americans, fearful that their

loved ones inside of gaza will not return home alive. this video, showing some relatives spilling into the streets in protest, urging prime minister netanyahu to halt the airstrikes, and to pursue rescued negotiations. these protests are coming as demonstrators around the world continue to call for a cease-fire, and for desperately needed aid for civilians in gaza. just moments ago, we did learn that at least ten trucks, carrying food, water, and medical supplies, i expected to enter the gaza strip today. and according to two service providers, and our nbc news crews in gaza, internet and cell phone service is slowly being restored after the gaza strip faced a near total blackout for over 24 hours. joining me now, live from haifa, israel, is nbc news correspondent josh lederman. josh, good morning from us here in miami.

israeli prime minister then yahoo warning yesterday that this war is going to be a quote, long and difficult one. what's the latest that you can share with us at this hour, and what can we expect to see in perhaps the next few days? >> yeah, katie, good morning. the prime minister saying that this is not only gonna be a long war, but his long entered a new phase. the prime minister casting this as an existential battle for israel. he called it israel second war of independence. the real question many israelis have right now is, have we entered that actual ground war that the israeli military has been promising for more than two peaks now. the military has been fairly coy about whether the operations that we've seen over the last 48 hours or so, constitute the start of the big deal, the big ground war, or something moving in that direction with these kind of limited ground incursions. these raids, into the gaza strip. and it's really unclear at this point if there will actually be a formal announcement that the

big ground war has started. we are seeing these continual ground operations continue into the gaza strip, their reports -- increasing the casualty rate in the gaza strip. we heard this morning from doctors without borders, saying because of the blackout of cell phone and internet communication, the now appears to have been lifted, but while there was that blackout, it made it more difficult for medical personnel to be able to treat the wounded, to figure out where the wounded even were. the gaza health ministry, which is run by hamas, says this morning the -- reason above 8000. nbc not cannot independently care -- challenge from time to time by the u.s. government and others. certainly we are seeing an increasing number of fatalities in casualties in the gaza strip as the israeli operations on the ground and in the air, continue. >> you know, josh, with the escalation of the military from the israeli defense forces aid is becoming more than critical. ten aid trucks reportedly going to be able to enter gaza at some point during the day.

what else do we know about this humanitarian aid getting into gaza, where it is badly needed? >> that comes to us from the palestinian red crescent, which is saying that in addition to those ten trucks, they expect across from egypt to gaza, that there's another 20 trucks that are waiting at a border crossing between egypt and israel. and hoping to get in. the idea, being, that the trucks would first enter israel and then be able to -- israeli side of the border into gaza. palestinian red crescent saying they're not sure whether those trucks will be getting in today, and even if they were, a total of 30 trucks would still be a drop in the bucket compared to what was getting in before the crisis, and what palestinian aid groups say is needed to deal with the scope of the humanitarian issued there right now. >> josh, quickly, before i have to let you go. can you share with our viewers, what is the feeling of the sentiment right now the high five? have you been listening to

people in the area, are they sharing with you with a think about the escalation in the military -- by the idf? >> their big concern here, -- northern border. we're fairly close to lebanon, where missiles and rockets are coming over the border every day. i'm right now at a hospital and high five, where they have built a complete underground hospital that can fit 2000 hospital beds, so if there's significant conflict in this part of the country, patients can actually be moved deep underground to be treated, even while rockets are falling. it speaks to the level of high concern here, in northern israel, -- hezbollah, the palestinian militant group based in lebanon, including other actors, potentially syria. >> nbc -- 's josh lederman live in haifa, israel. josh, please, as always, stay safe. thank you. i wanna bring in now, for more on this -- former member of the fbi hostage --

sierra one consulting. rob, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. let's talk about the israeli military its amped up its airstrikes as we know, it started moving into gaza, this first question, how do you safely get hostages out of a place like gaza under those kinds of conditions? >> i think the only way they're gonna get out is a release. it's something that they negotiate, they may come across some, if they go in on the ground, and do some hostage rescues -- but that so dangerous. the intel coming out from the second group of hostages, they were kept in tunnels, i think is really big. hamas knows the hostages are value to them, in negotiations, and they're gonna try to keep them safe as they can. >> hamas has built extensive tunnels, it's a system that stretches for miles under the gaza strip, where they reportedly hide their rocket arsenals and hold any remaining hostages.

if israeli forces, rob, go into these tunnels, for a rescue mission, to get those hostages out, what kind of obstacles are they going to face? >> i think it's one of the hardest hostage rescues that you could ever do. fbi -- one child down in alabama, i don't remember that, it was an underground bunker, and it was extremely difficult, and they were just lucky to get out alive. i think if they go into the titles, it's just a nightmare. you usually have one way in, you can't come in another way to surprise, than the fact that the second hostage -- one guard per hostage, indicates to me, that that guard is there to eliminate the hostage, should the hostage rescue attempt happen. because normally you try to lessen the guards and increase the people, so your manpower is better, but if you have one guy person, i think there's only one reason for that. >> after releasing the american mother and her teen daughter last week, hamas also releasing

two more hostages. they were israeli women, ages 79 85. amazing, quote, it was for compelling humanitarian reasons. one of those hostages spoke out afterwards, and she claimed that after being beaten when she was abducted, she was later quote, treated well during captivity. why do you think hamas chose those two particular women to release, under the hundreds of hostages that they currently have? >> i think they were probably troublesome to move around. i think one of them, i've heard, was on oxygen. they're elderly, moving in tunnels. i think it was on them, it was easier to release them, and they could come out with that statement that it was humanitarian reasons. but it also helped them, in their logistics, of moving them around. >> and to that point, rob, it dovetails with that tunnel system that hamas specializes in, in gaza. how important is the intel, to make sure the hostages are even still in gaza.

my understanding, from some reports, -- could've been moved to egypt, some other location, and might not even remaining gaza? >> getting intel on hostages has to be one of the hardest things that there is to do. we went crazy with hidden afghanistan, iraq, you get a lot of false intel, you get some misinformation from the bad guys -- they don't know where you are. we even had in afghanistan, where they -- other groups to take your hostages, so they were doing disinformation -- in telling hostages is the hardest, and it's -- to almost a minute before you do that hostage rescue, if they're moving them. i think they're moving them to another country may be way out of line, only because i don't think any other country wants that on their plate, in the inteational world. again, they're putting a disinformation so that the

israelis don't really know it's true. >> rob i have about a minute, i want to ask -- meeting with benjamin netanyahu, amid the escalation of the bombing campaign -- our loved ones could still be in danger. do you think that plea, to someone like netanyahu, actually resonates? do you think that actually slows down this offensive to be able to allow the hostage negotiation to continue? >> i do. you have to almost be inhumane to listen to hostages families and not take it to heart. i think it's delayed the ground war -- i think it's elated to this point. i think that's why you're looking at -- that's pressure israelis are putting on to get the hamas to negotiate a bigger release. all those are back and forth, in there might be unsaid negotiations, with these incursions, but i think that's why you haven't seen that

degrade. again, talking to hostages families, you can help it feel that. the -- priorities, there are 200 people amongst millions, that he's going to try to negotiate a release, but he also has other intentions, and objectives. >> rob d'amico, thanks for always sharing your insight, your analysis, we really appreciate it. >> thank you, katie. >> some sad, breaking news, in hollywood this morning. a lot of questions surrounding the sudden and shocking death of a beloved 90s sitcom star, matthew perry. the l.a. fire department saying the 54-year-old actor, best known for playing chandler on nbc's hits if conference, was found dead in a hot tub at his home, last night. investigators say there is no signs of foul play, the preliminary cause of death appears to be drowning. we'll have any updates as they come in. and up next, in the show, decision 2024. he was once next in line for the oval, but this morning,

mike pence is out of the 2024 presidential race. and speaker spectacle, how the chaotic battle for the gavel exposes the underbelly of the republican party. this, and much more, after the break. break. the chase ink business premier card is made for sam who makes, everyday products, designed smarter. genius! like 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more, so sam can make smart ideas, a brilliant reality! chase for business. make more of what's yours. announcer: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -ah. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50.

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primary race has one less republican trying to overthrow former president donald trump's front runner status. trump's former vice president, mike pence, shocking audience at an event las vegas is today by suddenly announcing he is dropping out of the race. pence is five meth campaign went nowhere fast. he couldn't even crack double digit poll numbers and was bleeding money. political reports even had the pump $150,000 of his own money into his campaign to help offset six figure debt. as pence taps out of the presidential race, the halls of congress where he once served

finally have a permanent speaker. louisiana congressman mike johnson won the battle for the speaker's gavel after 21 days and four rounds of voting. if you've never heard of him before, you're not alone. republican main senator, susan collins said, she had to google him. joining me now is molly john fast, host of fast politics podcast and special correspondent vanity fair. molly, always so good to have you on the show. let's start off by very quickly listening to florida congressman matt gaetz who orchestrated this whole house speaker debacle by booting kevin mccarthy. take a quick listen. >> if you don't think the move and from kevin mccarthy to maga mike johnson shows the ascendance of this movement and where the power in the republican party truly lies, you are not paying attention. >> is gaetz right, molly, to claim the maga party is stronger than ever now that mcgahn mike is speaker of the house? >> well, i mean, i think that

matt gaetz is sort of on a ledge, here right? he has to say this because he did get rid of kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy was quite powerful and good at fundraising. say what you will, able to pass a cr. now you have, instead of code mccarthy, of this guy who is sort of the lowest level in leadership, no one's ever heard of him. never met mitch mcconnell. he's a completely unknown except for the fact that we know he has this radical christian beliefs that include being anti-choice and anti-lgbtq. he's written lots of really really right-wing religious stuff about lots of different groups of people. yeah. matt gaetz will die on this hill. is he right? i don't know. i mean, look, this guy looks like paul ryan but acts like sydney powell. >> that's kind of an understatement, right? i kind want to harp on this a little bit, molly. i think it's important for our viewers to understand, this

relatively unassuming looking guy who i said is jim jordan with the for cohen better hair has radical, as you said, views that are so conservative that i don't think he supports anything other than if you're, in a, sleeping at the bible. the other problem is, you compare him or you say he sydney powell, he is, he sydney powell but on steroids, right? >> the app. >> he actually went to court to try to help donald trump overturn the elections of the 2020 results. how scary is it then, all joking aside, but this unassuming guy, right? how scary is it that someone like this is kind of waiting in the wings and laying in wait for an opportunity like this? >> look, there's two really scary things about him, the religious stuff, right? he really does believe what he says and he spent years and years and years writing and talking. this guy makes mike pence look like a moderate, right?

not so religious. he writes, you know, he has the special marriage that's called a covenant marriage where it's harder to get divorced. the stuff this guys up to is so far out of the mainstream, even for mainstream christians. it's a sort of very religious, almost kind of zion, zell it is kind of religion. i would say that's quite scary. the other thing i think is quite scary is that he is a lawyer and he has been working on undermining the 2020 election. the reason why trump installed him is not really, i don't think he necessarily, don't remember, trump is not ideological in any way. and then trump liked him because he had done this work trying to overturn the 2020 election. he had written this brief, he'd gotten really in the weeds with the, really involved with trying to help trump stay in office, even though he had not won the election. i think that these religious,

these religious aspects, the one bright spot, if you're gonna say there is a bright spot which i'm not sure there is is that this man has not been doing this very long, he's only been in congress since 2016. the job of speaker is, people didn't give nancy pelosi the kind of credit she deserves, right? this is a very hard job, you have to raise money, you have to make consensus with all these different groups. republicans barely have the majority. they have somebody in congress who's probably gonna get expelled, george santos, under indictment. i mean, this is not a great time to be speaker. this guy has almost no experience in leadership. i do think it's gonna be a very hard job for him. >> you still have the one vote motion to vacate kind of looming over any person who serves as speaker. about 30 seconds, left molly. the fact he garnered all the support from republicans for that vote that become speaker of the house, what does that say about stuff actually

getting done? let's talk about americans wanting work to get done if you have someone like that who speaker of the house? >> there's sort of a crazy moment where republicans decided they had blown it with tom emmer's. they had blown it with, you know, kevin mccarthy. they had run through everybody. this is the last guy in leadership. they decided they were just gonna go around the sky, they were gonna convalesce round him, coalesce around him and they just made this choice. is it a great choice? no. i think they're gonna have trouble with this. they just decided this was their last best hope. you know, we'll see. i think this is gonna be our job. i think the american people are gonna see some really wild stuff now. >> convalesce actually may work, molly, i don't disagree. convalesce, coalesce, i think they might work too. molly john fast, great to be on the show. things are being here. >> thanks. >> coming up next, prime

minister benjamin netanyahu warns to brace for a long and difficult war as israel expands ground operations in gaza. this is the united nations highlights grave humanitarian concerns for millions of civilians. more after the break. you're watching the katie phang show. tie phan show exhale] [deep exhale] [trumpet music plays] 579 breaths to show 'em your stuff. every breath matters. don't like rsv take your breath away. protect yourself from rsv... ...with abrysvo, pfizer's rsv vaccine. abrysvo is a vaccine for the prevention of lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious if you are 60 or older. having asthma, copd, diabetes, or heart disease puts you at even higher risk. abrysvo is not for everyone and may not protect all who receive the vaccine. don't get abrysvo if you've had a severe allergic reaction to its ingredients. people with a weakened immune system may have a decreased response to abrysvo.

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observation posts, and anti tank missile launch posts. meanwhile, tensions are also mounting on israel's northern border. the idf said it's fighter jet struck a number of military targets belonging to iranian -backed militant group, hezbollah, in response to rocket missile fires from lebanon. joining me now is lieutenant general stuff, nbc news military analyst and former deputy commander of the united states european command. sir, always an honor to have you on the show, especially as we see more of this israeli ground offensive get started. let's start with idea, of these forces actually striking back at hezbollah on the northern part where the northern border of israel. we've all talked since this war erupted a few weeks ago about what would happen if this becomes a two front war. do you think we're actually at that point? >> good to be with you again. i don't think we're at that point yet. we'll see how this ground war

unfolds here. i do believe, if the israelis go in full force on this ground war and do not keep in mind the suffering on the ground and just go through gaza, sees gaza, and stay, you could perhaps see hamas and others come into this war. so. israel will need to be careful in their approach for this war. they need to make sure they conduct surgical attacks with special operating forces and infantry forces, as well as percentage of our tax with their air force and their helicopters, so forth, not to just go in and methodically do the business they need to do. they have to be careful not to go in full force here. >> general, let's talk about some bad actors that are not

being talked about necessarily when you say israel and hamas. talk about iran, for example. iranian president saying on x that israel's crimes in gaza may force everyone to take action. even if iran doesn't put its own soldiers in the war, how else could they stabilize the region? i also saw some disturbing news about russia having aid being provided to hamas at this point. there is a lot of people, there's a lot of countries that are putting their fingerprints, putting their thumbs on the scale, sir, in this conflict or war between israel and hamas. >> yeah, i think that's what we have to be careful about. you're correct, must not forget about the proxies that iran supports all over the arab world, whether it be the palestinian jihad's, weatherby has bulla.

as this war continues, we're probably gonna see many of the proxies come into this to try and influence things, influence things with israel. we must not forget, influence things in terms of u.s. interest on the ground, we have to be careful about as well. >> general, we know so far israel's indicating it has no interest in reoccupy in gaza, has no interest in running or operating any type of government in gaza. yet, netanyahu is saying we have one mingle to beat the enemy and guarantee our existence. when you hear something like that, sir, what does that say to you in terms of the real and goal for israel? >> i think here, again, we don't truly know what the end goal is. we know that israel wants to destroy hamas. what happens in the aftermath? normally, when you go into

operate somewhere like this, you have to be prepared for the enemy to go on the ground, there is an insurgency that will pop its head back up. so, that's what you have to be prepared for. the other part, is how do you govern after you have seized the strip? the arab world will be watching whether israel will stay or whether they will try and put a de facto government in place or something that they bring in the palestinians to help govern the strip again. >> general, i'm about 30 seconds left, i did want to ask, we keep on hearing the phrase, destroy hamas, how realistic is it that hamas, this terrorist organization could truly be eliminated? >> it's gonna take a long war to do, it that's for sure. so, the first start, it is to destroy hamas within the gaza strip. remember, we must not forget

about the attacks that occurred on october 7th. the israelis have to go in to destroy hamas and the gaza strip, they have to go in to ensure that they get the hostages out of their. they have to go in to ensure they stop the missiles from raining down on their country. all of this is a part of the plan to destroy hamas within the gaza strip. not so sure you can destroy greater hamas because, as you know, many of the leaders live in other countries throughout the arab world. >> like the leader being in qatar, actually. lieutenant general, stuff, it's always an honor to have you on the show, sir. thank you very much. >> thanks, katie. coming up, a humanitarian nightmare, thousands of pregnant women caught in the cross fire of the israel-hamas war. in a race against time to give

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fuel, meaning just 27 remain in operation. the few remaining hospitals are on the brink of collapse. the situation has gotten so dire that mothers are being given barbaric emergency delivery kits in case they go into labor. since the bombings began, roughly three weeks ago, the palestinian death toll is nearing 8000, that's according to the palestinian health ministry in gaza. now that the war has entered the, quote, second phase, that number is only going to skyrocket in the months ahead. joining me now is leyla baker, united nations population regional director for -- leyla, thanks for joining the show this morning. let's start with that israeli ground invasion that's happening in gaza. what are your fears as the idf is moving more troops deeper into gaza? >> good question, this is the most critical humanitarian operation that we have seen in decades. it has left 2.2 million people

under siege without fuel, water, medicine, basics and hygiene. for us, we requesting immediate humanitarian access at the scale that will allow the u.n. as partners to deliver to that community. we must do it safely. spoke about women who were trying to give birth right now. put yourselves in the shoes of any woman who should be experiencing one of the most joyous moments of her life, instead, she is in fear of death. inability to access any kind of health service that's, a fear for herself, her family, the children she has. for us, we're also deeply concerned about the u.n. personnel who have been locked in this conflict and inside gaza without any communications for over 36 hours.

we lost complete contact. under any kind of international humanitarian law, that is an outrageous and preposterous proposal. we request respect for international humanitarian law and the ability of the one to be able to manage its operations in the safety. be respected by all parties of the conflict. >> leyla, let's talk about babies that actually get to be born but have been born either during this conflict or right before this ended up happening. i was reading an article, over 120 at least newborn babies currently in gaza that are neonatal units. they critically need electricity. feel is just as important as the water, as the food. there is a concern though about hamas diverting fuel if it enters into the area. share with our viewers why the fuel is critical to make sure these incubator babies and pregnant women are able to deliver safely and in good

health? >> put yourselves in the shoes of any mother who is now in a situation where she is trapped and trying to get to safety in the sanctity of a health facility like a hospital. under any international humanitarian law, health facilities and health personnel are not a target. that includes the united nations personnel. we've been operating in gaza with our partners for over 50 years without incident. we're very careful about the partners we work with and we count on everyone ensuring the facilities and personnel who are required to be able to provide those services are allowed to do so without any hindrance and without any threat to their own safety and security. for many of those mothers, they will not be able to access a person who can help them deliver safely. if she needs health care to deliver through a caesarean section or has complications

afterbirth, her life is in jeopardy. if her baby is delivered prematurely from those hundred babies who are delivered nearly every day, we have 5500 women currently estimated who are pregnant, who are scheduled to deliver within the next few weeks. imagine what that peril will bring if we cannot secure the safety and security and the fuel and the hospital medications and supplies that are urgently needed. we really call on all of the conscience of the international community and those that can influence lifting the siege and allowing for that to flow unhindered unconditionally. >> leyla baker, unfpa regional director for arab states, thanks for joining us and sharing the word about the need and the urgency of the humanitarian aid for gaza. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having the. >> and coming up next, trump's trials and tribulations.

the quadruple indicted twice impeached, one term disgraced ex president adrift in the sea of legal troubles. we'll break down the latest with msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, straight ahead. don't go anywhere, here watching the katie phang show. he katie phang show. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours!

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trump wrapping out another week of no good very bad legal news. on friday, the new york a.g.'s office announcing trump's three oldest children are set to teif his 250 million dollar civil fraud case next week. on tuesday, abc news reporting former chief of staff, mark meadows, was granted immunity in the d.c. federal election interference case. urces say meadows met with jack smith'steam at least three times in the last year, including before federal grand jury. nbc news has not independently confirmed this report. a lawyer for meadows telling nbc news he's disputing the

report, calling the abc reporting, in part, largely inaccurate. meanwhile, reportedly no plea deals on the table for meadows another top trump codefendants in the fulton county georgia election interference case. for codefendants, including three trump lawyers, they've already pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate. joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama school of la and one of the co-hosts of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. joyce, good morning. you are always going to be smarter than me. i go to you when i want to real. let's start with mark meadows. hehathis reported immunity deal. let's explain the difference very quickly between this-limited immunity that came through almost bng forced to have to testify and full immunity you wrote a great great substack's about cooperation versus immunity. >> right, this is such an important distinction, katie, i

know you understand this as well as i do. there is distinction between someone who is a cooperating codefendant who pleads guilty, given sentencing leniency in exchange for truthful cooperation and someone in meadows possession who testifies pursuant to a grant of immunity. you're right to point out that that means he's essentially forced to testify. the immunity means that he no longer has a fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination that he can assert to keep himself out from being in front of a grand jury. what we don't know here is what kind of immunity meadows was given. the federal prosecutors can offer one of two different kinds. the first is youth immunity, that means the government can still prosecute you, at least theoretically. they cannot use your testimony or any evidence that they derive from your testimony against you. the second kind of immunity is transactional immunity. that means you cannot be

prosecuted for anything you talk about. he can't be prosecuted for any crimes are subject matter that comes up during your testimony. let the open question here with meadows. >> joyce, my follow-up then, does this mean jack smith didn't have enough against mark meadows, so, he wanted to use mark meadows to get someone like donald trump for that d.c. elections subversion case, or does it mean that mark meadows maybe didn't even have a lot of outlet information, what they wanted to see what they could get from him in a matter what the grand jury? >> right, we don't know the answer for certain, those are the top possibilities. one is, and this seems sort of unbelievable that jack smith believed that mark meadows didn't commit any prosecutable crime's, but wanted his testimony, and it's not unusual in that situation for someone who's adjacent to a crime, doesn't have exposure and prosecution for the lawyers to insist on immunity before they will let their person testify.

there is a lot of reasons jacks mitt would want mark meadows testimony. i think most significantly, you want to make sure that mark meadows is not going to be a witness in favor of donald trump before you indict the case with donald trump, you need to know what his defenses look like and whether meadows is one of them. but it seems more likely that jack smith, for whatever reason, didn't believe he had sufficient evidence to include meadows as one of the unnamed, unindicted coconspirators and his indictment. of course, in d.c., only donald trump is charged. i think we're missing a piece here, to be honest. none of these answers feel 100 percent accurate to me. especially since it's fani willis in georgia did go ahead and indict meadows. only to watch this one play out a little bit further to understand what's going on here. >> let's stay in d.c. and talk about that 16 case. there have been a flurry of filings, including late last

night. donald trump filing a reply in support of his motion first day of gag order pending appeal, we know judge chutkan entered a limited gag order. donald trump has sense appealed. chuck can entered administrative state, not actually saying anything on the merits of whether not that appeals will be well taken, just saying, usa to be briefing this, i'm in a temporary stay the imposition of this gag order. your thoughts though, joyce, about the likelihood of trump being successful and obtaining a stay from judge chutkan herself will he appeals this order. >> look, judge chutkan was absolutely correct to issue this order. criminal defendants do not have the same first amendment rights that the rest of us have in the sense that they can't do anything that would intimidate or harass witnesses or put anyone involved in the criminal justice system in danger. we may see judge chutkan tightened up her order a little bit. there would be nothing wrong with her doing that.

it would remove some of the complaints trump has. as it stands, it's a proper order, i think it's extremely unlikely we'll see her enter full stay. i think the court of appeals will simply say that she is entitled to do what she's done here and that trump has to abide by the very limited restraining order in this case. >> joyce out about 30 seconds, let's talk about the new york a.g.'s case, how quickly, excuse me, how much i can be watching for that testimony next week coming in of the court in new york? >> right, we see all of donald trump's chess children testifying next week. we have to decide, do they want to tell the truth, do they want to stay and dad's good graces so the consequences of committing perjury are likely to be a prosecution, it's very clear that new york city ernie gentleman's business. i think this could be a very interesting week ahead. >> joyce vance, as always, bringing it home for us, thanks for being here, i always appreciate you. >> thanks, katie.

>> and my thanks to all of you for joining me this morning. you can always keep up with us that anytime by following at katie phang show on instagram, tiktok, an x, formerly known as twitter. stay tuned, the sunday show, with my friend, jonathan capehart, it's coming up next. oming up next. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid-free remission... ...and the chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check, check, and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer;

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prime minister benjamin netanyahu warns of a long and difficult campaign to eradicate hamas after israeli ground troops entered gaza. we'll have the latest as phone and internet services slowly restored in the gaza strip. speaker mike -- a closer look at the new house leader. congresswoman lisa blunt rochester, congresswoman becca ballot, and senator tim kaine will weigh in on what to expect from an election denier dubbed maga mic by donald trump. all in the family, donald trump and the three of his children scheduled to testify in his new york civil trial this week. some of his friends start flipping on the twice impeached four times indicted on 91 counts former president. i'm jonathan kaye part. this is the sunday show. new