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>> good morning. you are watching velshi on msnbc. it is sunday, october 29th. and i'm charles coleman junior filling in for ali velshi. we've got a lot to talk about. now, my colleague ali is on vacation. he will be back next weekend. but until then, we are starting this morning with a split screen moment for donald trump, the legal landscape is going more and more dangerous for the former president by the day. but despite this, somehow, his grip on the republican party was reaffirmed once again this week with the election of a key ally to the speaker of the house. and in fulton county, georgia, for people, that is one, two, three, four of trump's codefendants have now taken eels and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors. just this week, in new york, the former president stormed out of the courtroom shortly after he was fined $10,000 for

violating a court order after a judge denied his lawyers request to dismiss the case. now, the request was a long shot. but nonetheless, things seem to be only getting worse for the disgraced ex president. this week, there's gonna be a very interesting family reunion of sorts innew york courtroom. the former presidenanhis three eldest children, don junior, eric, and ivanka, all set to testify in the trump civil fraud trial. now, the judge has already ruled in favor of attorney general letitia james. but that same judge has yet to decide on the punishment for the trump organization. whatever punishment is decided is likely going to determine the future of donald trump's business dealings in the state of new york. but despite all of this, despite every day he has the going on legally, despite his fight for president, everything threatening his freedom, his businesses, his political future, it is undeniable that

donald trump is still a political force to be reckoned with. how do we know this? well, let's look at the facts. right now, as far as polling is concerned, he is still the runaway front one for the republican party presidential nomination. just yesterday, one of his former opponents, actually his former vice president mike pence, the guy who flashed on trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election abruptly waved the flag, dropped out of the race, and called it quits. last week, the chaotic marathon search for a new speaker of the house resulted in the elevation of mike johnson. if you haven't heard of mike johnson, you are not the only one. he is pretty much a little known, conservative congressman from louisiana who's expressed anti-abortion and anti-lgbtq views. if that wasn't enough, he's also a trump loyalist who played a very significant role in shoring up support for

congress and trump's plan to overturn the election. all of this should be taken as a sign that trump remains the dominant ideology of the republican party. joining me now to unpack all of this is former republican communications director tara setmayer. she's a senior adviser for the lincoln project and host of the breakdown. also with me, of course, my friend and colleague danny cevallos criminal defense attorney, super lawyer, and an msnbc legal analyst. tara, i want to start with you. thank you so much for being here. good morning. mike pence, out of nowhere, i don't really remember the name of the show. it was on a network. the big thing was, you are fired. and they go off, and they quit. and then one by one, the guys just dropped off the aisle. and now, mike pence is the latest victim. he did not necessarily get fired but he fired himself, he dropped out of the race. what are your thoughts on this?

what do you think it means for the other primary candidates who remain in the republican field? >> was he ever really in the race? i mean, mike pence was persona non grata with maga from the very beginning, from the point where he decided to actually uphold the constitution as opposed to donald trump's bidding on january six, which is the one positive of the tenure of mike pence as vice president. i give him no credit for doing what he was supposed to do, really. but, so, he really never stood a chance. i used to joke all the time that my -- had a greater chance of being a republican presidential nominee than mike pence. i'm not surprised at this. i'm actually surprised he lasted as long as he did. but the idea that mike pence isn't maga enough for this, it tells you everything you need to know about the state of the republican party. however you feel about mike pence and his positions, he was pretty in line with the right

wing of the party, mostly mainstream right wingers. but not since the era of trump. he's not right-wing enough. so, you know, i say good words to mike pence. the world's tiniest -- he wasn't actually in the rate anyway. and he never would have stood, he had no chance becoming president of the united states because this country does not want someone that has that level of extremism in general. on social issues the way mike pence did. >> now, danny, it is lawyer talk. i gotta take my glasses off. you know how this goes. mike pence is out of the race. it was never really facing any sort of criminal exposure, but he could have had political backlash for testifying against donald trump. he's one of the people central to the election interference investigations and prosecutions. now that he is out of the race and he is essentially got nothing to lose, what do you think the likelihood is that we will see him take the stand

against his former boss? >> high to almost certainty because i think that when he was opposing subpoenas in the past, he was doing so so symbolically. who was doing putting on a front. if you are speaking candidly behind closed doors, he was probably saying, all right, we have to argue against the subpoena, just for the show, just for my candidacy. but secretly, i can't wait to go in there and testify against the guy who put this tremendous fear in me and many other people in congress on that fateful day well over a year ago now. so, i don't think there's gonna be much impediment to mike pence racing into testify. when he's still put up an argument to a subpoena? maybe, but i doubt it. i think we're gonna see him testify. he is already provided evidence. there is absolutely nothing holding him back now. certainly not a candidacy and certainly not the concern that he might turn off fellow maga supporters. >> how much do you think his book becomes a factor in this ultimate testimony for, in

terms of is that the blueprint for his testimony? you think he's got something else not in the book, or are you concerned about the consistency for what is already written and published out there in the public sphere versus what he said on the stand? >> charles, never been a time to be a prosecutor because now -- >> i love to hear that. i love to hear that! >> well, you sit back, especially if you are someone prosecuting trump and all the people around him, but you wait for somebody to write a book. you get out your highlighter. you mark all the passages that you want to use if that person is a final witness. and if it is trump, you just sit around, you watch the rallies, you watch twitter. everybody nowadays, you probably saw this about a decade and a half ago, criminal defendants and witnesses started putting their lives on social media, writing things, putting it out on the internet, and in high-profile cases, people are writing books. you call this social media, books, whatever. the government and prosecutors, they call it evidence. and they love it, they love reading it. a robbery case, an assault case,

when somebody posts a video of it online, people convict them selves, whether it is street crime or this high level, high profile crime, everybody is creating evidence for prosecutors. it didn't used to be that. now, everybody is just generating the data for them. and they are there to scoop it up. why not? >> that's exactly what happens. if i were prosecuting now, i would have to deal with a treasure trove of stuff that people are giving. tara, i want to come back to you and switch gears a little bit. let's talk mike johnson. i want to talk mike johnson and something that a lot of people have not been discussing. and that is money, all right? so, we had a speaker in kevin mccarthy who was a pretty adept fund-raiser. in fact, he donated personally out of his own campaign conference over $18 million to other republican candidates who are facing reelection in other districts. you are talking about an election soon where every

member of the house will be up for reelection. and mike johnson, who is the leader of the house now, leader of the house republicans, over his career, he's raised about -- give or take, $5 million. how much of an issue should this be for congressional republicans? >> i think we may have lost tara. we'll come back to tara. danny, time for legal. >> let's do it. >> so, we've seen yet another trump codefendant flip. and if you are the defense attorney for the remaining 15, because this is for now, right? what are you telling your clients about whatever deals they still have on the table, particularly if you are the attorney for john eastman or rudy giuliani, someone who is very high up and has a lot to lose. >> fulton county, georgia case is similar to the federal case for election interference. but it is a tale of two prosecutions. the federal case is streamlined, naming only one defendant with

a goal, obviously, getting the truth quickly as possible. but look at the strategy and the fulton county prosecutors. it was a bit of a gamut and it appears to be paying off. and it's this, look, as a defense attorney, i criticize prosecutors for doing this kind of thing sometimes. you tell me what you think. you charge, you know, a couple of dozen defendants, including low level people. and you count on some of them saying, hey, whoa, i was just a small fish. i don't want to ruin my life over this. let's talk prosecutors, and then appears to be what has happened at least with the four that have pleaded guilty so far, they've gotten good deals, probation only. i mean, that is the gold standard for a deal. and they're going to cooperate. and no surprise, three out of the four were lawyers. you know why that is? it's because lawyers have their licenses to lose. they have more to lose in all professionals, top tours, whatever the case may be. it doesn't have to be professionals, anybody with a lot to lose, you've got a job, business, now you are caught up in this case. and you are thinking, whoa, i

was just following orders, or those were the real bad guys, this is exactly what the georgia prosecutors wanted. they wanted to name those low level people, hoping that they would turn. and that is exactly what they have done. and it's a bit of a risk because of all of those defendants, those codefendants say, no deals are going to trial. now, you've got a pretty large prosecution to manage. as i said, the gamble appears to have paid off. i don't think these are the only four that are going to plead guilty. i think you're gonna see more, and i promise you behind closed doors, prosecutors are saying, hey, see this great deal? this offer won't last. at now. they're like infomercials. call now and we will throw in for you a towel. whatever the case, maybe it's probation only and people want that deal. >> tara, so glad that we are able to get you back. i want to ask you, speaking of gambles, as the republican party made a terrible gamble with respect to mike johnson, given his inexperience as a fund-raiser, and comparing that to where we were with kevin mccarthy, is this going to be

the guy who's going to help some of his colleagues be able to raise money to a sufficient level giving everyone in congress about to be up for reelection at the same time? >> i would say absolutely not. there is a reason why rising to the rank of speaker takes years usually, conventional wisdom, to get to that point. because you have to prove yourself. one of the ways is by raising money. and that is kind of an old school way, i think, of doing things now. it is clear that the who publican party is no longer interested in the way that things used to be. and the traditional way of rising to power is no longer by doing the things that you used to do in the past. it is now two questions, are you loyal to donald trump? and will you put forth the maga agenda? that's all that matters. and unfortunately, for the republicans, the ones that are in biden districts, the biden 18, they're not thrilled. although they voted for him, but they're not thrilled that mike johnson is now speaker of the house because they're not going to have that same support that they could get in the past

from kevin mccarthy or more traditional republicans. and also it's gonna be an alpha krause hung around their necks, as it should be. i continue to tell my democratic friends, please use this as an albatross the way republicans used nancy pelosi. and in this case, it's more credible that mike johnson is a threat to our democracy. this guy is a question nationalist. we should all be very alarmed by his beliefs and the fact that maga has risen to power. you have a maga speaker of the house. that is an extension of what donald trump is trying to do by pushing forth and authoritarian government here in this country. and people need to pay attention. do not be, do not be taken by the fact that mike johnson's and what -- these are the most dangerous types, what maga mike johnson, there's a reason why they call him that. pay attention to what he says and to what he does. his inexperience here may have gotten him the speaker's gavel

because he did not have the same relationships or bad blood with other members of congress. we just get exhausted. that's what authoritarians do. they wear their opponents down. and you cannot appease authoritarianism. and mike johnson as speaker of the house is one step further man. >> tara setmayer, danny cevallos, a superstar all-star panel to get started with a bang. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> still to come, gradually returning to the gaza strip, but what does that mean about the humanitarian crisis? is it going away? we're going to go live to the region for the latest on the war between israel and hamas. plus, look at what life is like and gossip before the war broke out. ali velshi visited gaza in 2019 to report on what life was like there. we will bring you interviews from that truck. don't go anywhere. you're watching velshi on msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ rd is made for people like sam, who make-

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deliberation, i have decided to suspend my campaign for president, effective today. i am leaving this campaign, but let me promise you i will never leave the fight for conservative values and i will never stop fighting to elect principled republican leaders to every office in the land. so help me god! >> mike pence has officially dropped out of the 2024 white house race. the former vice president made the announcement yesterday in a las vegas at the republican jewish coalition leadership summit. pence's decision comes amid reports that his campaign was running low on money and was

simply never really able to gain momentum with the republican base that's extremely loyal to his former boss donald trump. let's get right to this with nbc news correspondent steve patterson who is in las vegas. talk to me. the announcement yesterday from the former vice president was unexpected. what are you hearing today about how it is being received? when he made the announcement, it seemed really quiet in the room. how did the crowd react? >> yeah, look, charles, i think it's going to be easy for a lot of pundits on the major shows to say that this in some way was expected, that pence's campaign was running out of steam. the numbers were not adding up. pence simply, what pence was telling the american public was not being bought. to be in that room and to have absolutely no idea that this was happening and speaking to the r.j. sea leadership, the coalition where the event was hosted, they had no idea. the media that had been

embedded with pence in months and months had no idea this was coming. for the race to so abruptly shift to domestic issues to foreign policy, i think the crowd was excited or very curious about what the former vice president had to say about the war in israel. for the most part, that is what this speech was, a very prepared speech for the first ten minutes when it suddenly shifted into what amounts to a conciliatory speech. he was bowing out of the race. it was very, very shocking. you could almost hear an audible hush. that's the only way that i could describe the. it was spread out over the crowd. the reaction from people who were also running in the race was swift from nikki haley to vivek ramaswamy, but also his former boss, former president donald trump also had some remarks. it's probably what you would expect. it was during a rally later that night. listen to this. >> i don't know about mike

pence. he should endorse me. you know why? you know, i had a great successful presidency. he was the vice president. he should endorse me. i chose him, made him vice president. people in politics can be disloyal. i've never seen anything like it. >> again, as for the why, pence's fundraising was slowing to a trickle from what we understand. the polling was just not there. the expectation was that he would not make the next barrier to get on to the next debate stage which is just a death knell at this point for a campaign for president. charles? >> i have to say, for someone who's supporters were literally calling for this candidate to be hanged, it is really, really rich to see donald trump suggest that mike pence should endorse him. this has been nbc's steve patterson in las vegas. thank you so much, steve.

coming up on the other side of the break, israel's prime minister says the war with hamas is in a new stage. we will go live to the region for the very latest. i will speak with the ranking member of the house foreign affairs committee. i'm charles coleman junior in four ali velshi. we will be right back. will be right back. will be right back. ugh, this guy again... pops! ay son! ya got a little somethin' on yuh face. needed a quick shave. quick shave? respect the process! it ain't my dad's razor, dad, it's from gillettelabs. gillette...labs? gillette's ultimate shaving experience.

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you are watching velshi on msnbc. i am charles coleman junior, filling in for ali velshi, who is on vacation this week. as of this morning, local time, some communications are gradually being restored in gaza. this comes after days long and a near total blackout of both internet and other telecom communications. even as we are learning that communications are being restored, nbc's news crew in the gaza strip is basically confirming those reports. this is still something which

is an ongoing story developing. the war between israel and hamas has escalated. as of this weekend, prime minister benjamin netanyahu is saying that the war is now entering into a, quote, second stage. it's real increased air strikes and moved groups into gaza on friday. the idf says it eliminated 450 hamas targets in recent days. as the humanitarian crisis in gaza worsens and critical resources growth in for those who are still there, netanyahu warrants israelis palestinians and the world that this could be, quote, a long and difficult war. joining me now is nbc news correspondent jay gray. he is in tel aviv. thank you for being with us. give us the latest for what is going on on the ground. >> yeah, charles, let's talk about the acceleration of the aggression into gaza by idf troops, what commanders are

calling large scale, significant strikes. there were 450 targeted over the last 24 hours, according to the idf, including communication centers, command centers as well, anti tank situations. in the last 15 or 30 minutes on the ground in gaza, they confronted what they call a terrorist cell coming out of one of the tunnels underneath gaza. there was a firefight there. there were casualties on the as. they say they neutralized that cell. that is according to the idf. we talked a little bit about communications coming back up in gaza especially internet and cell service. what we are learning from humanitarian services there is that the infrastructure for providing support is quickly crumbling. food is running low. the u.n. warehouse was broken into. those on the ground are so desperate that they took flower and hygiene items and basic

necessities out of sheer need. we also know that many of the ambulance services, charles, are now completely without fuel. they can't transport some of the injured into what are already overcrowded and struggling hospitals. >> and we see's jay gray in tel aviv, thank you so much, jake, for your reporting. please stay safe. we are going to bring in the studio one of my favorite congressman, my former congressman right out of queens, the sharpest dressed brother on the hill, congressman gregory mees, thank you so much for being here. i don't want to call him your boy, mike johnson, he's the new speaker of the house. just a few moments ago on fox news, he said that he intends to move forward with an individual package just for israel and aid to israel. the president has tried to and vance a package which includes

aid for ukraine, aid for the southern border, as well as israel all at the same time. you are the ranking member on the house foreign services committee. did you hear about mike johnson 's israel only proposal? if, so how do you plan to vote on that? >> yeah, i have heard about it. i have heard it from the new speaker. i think it's a bad idea. i believe that israel and ukraine should be together. they are both our national defense and security issues. we should not separate the two. we should not play politics with that. what they want to do is try to separate them and then hold ukrainian funding hostage to what they want as far as the border is concerned. national security should always come first. it should not separate the two. we should not play politics with it. we need to deal with a border.

we can deal with the border. i think the opposite should be. it should be israel, ukraine, the border. we can work that together. israel and ukraine are together with the border or include everything in one package as the president has recommended. >> you are a smooth customer, just like me. i'm a former prosecutor. i'm not letting you off the hook. you said it was a bad idea. does that mean, if it comes up, you are going to vote no? >> what that means is i hope the senate rings a bell over it where you can see real bipartisanship. that would be something that we have to deal with on the house side. i think you can see republicans and democrats are on the senate side. they agree that it's a national security issue. that puts pressure on the new speaker to stand up and show that he's not playing politics with this. i firmly -- i don't have any insurance if

we separate them. we need to ask the speaker if he's going to vote for, is a republican going to vote for ukraine? it's going to put it on the floor? is he going to play politics with it? i'm not going to let them off the hook. we have to make sure that for national security purposes and for our allies that we are all looking. the world is looking at what we do. if they see that we are only going to give money and support israel and not ukraine, that brings great questions to our friends in nato. this is a real serious deal. this is not just something that he's playing with. it is our nato allies which or watching us and our friends in the south pacific. that is why the president put all three of those things in one bill so they all know that the united states stands with them because of the values that we share. >> a lot of geopolitical implications with everything that we are talking about.

this week, there was a hue and resolution which was calling for a cease-fire agreement between israel and hamas. it is essentially dealing with the humanitarian aspect of everything that is happening in the general assembly. overwhelmingly, this passed by a vote of 120 to 14. the u.s. voted no. is there a space or a time where you could see yourself supporting a cease-fire? >> let me just say this, no. hamas doesn't want a cease-fire. i think we have forgotten about the. hamas is still firing rockets into israel. hamas has never asked for a cease-fire. hamas, i want to see -- what we could talk about is a way to have a humanitarian pause so that we can get humanitarian aid in. it seems to me that there is only one party which has never sought to have peace or to warrant a cease-fire.

that is hamas. hamas ones one thing, the devastation of israel. they have never stopped. every day, they are still sending rockets over to israel because of the iron dome. we would be talking about more deaths in israel also. we want israel to make sure that it is abiding by the rules of war as president biden has talked about. they have to eliminate hamas. if not, hamas will never stop. >> always a good conversation with you, congressman. thank you for being here, answering the tough questions and doing the hard work. that is gregory meeks representing queens, new york in the united states congress. coming up, if most of what you have seen about the gaza strip has been from these past few weeks of war, you are going to want to stay around for the next segment. ali velshi traveled to gaza in 2019 just to see what life was like there. we will bring you video and

voices from that trip earlier in the show. i am charles coleman junior sitting in for ali this weekend. we will be right back. we will be rig bhtack. we will be rig bhtack. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur.

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might bring just a sliver of hope. right around this time yesterday, our colleague spoke to a doctor. he is the president of medglobal org, a health care ngo. at that time, he had lost contact with his doctors who were inside gaza for about 48 hours. we spoke to him. he was still not sure that they were even alive. minutes ago, the doctor shared this. >> quote, thrilled that our team of heroes have survived the past 48 hours. doctor hassan tom has sent a message this a m that he is

alive but has lost 12 members of his family. he's taking care of the only child who survived. he's two years old in his icu. let us pray for his and her safety, and quo. >>

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and hamas entering its third

week, the images we have been seeing from the gaza strip have been simply heartbreaking. more than 8000 people in gaza have been killed so far according to gaza's health ministry. thousands more are a wounded. entire streets of what one stood as buildings have been reduced to rubble. while this seems unfathomable for many of us right now, it's important to understand daily life in gaza was already quite difficult before the war broke out. back in the fall of 2019, ali velshi traveled on assignment to the gaza to report on what life was like there. once across the border, ali met a young entrepreneur who founded a solar energy company. her aim was to soften the impact of the electricity crisis in gaza, a crisis which results from limits to fuel that we're going into israel in peacetime as well as gazis limited ability to general electric city from its single fuel power generation station.

she gave ali a window into what daily life was like for gazans and how she was trying to make it better. >> all right, we are now driving from the entry point into the gaza strip from israel. we crossed the actual physical border. we then boarded a vehicle. we are now going beyond here for extra checks before we're actually free to move around gaza. this is indicative of some of the difficulty, not just in the movement of people we discuss is completely enclosed by israel and egypt, but the movement of goods. if people here are trying to make their life more prosperous and trying to come up with entrepreneurial ideas and do business, there are lots and lots and lots of specific restrictions on how they can do that. we're going to take a look at some of those. hello! nice to see you! >> nice to see you too. >> while in the gaza strip in

2019, i met with a 24-year-old who was on to her second start-up company. this one was an effort to improve daily life in gaza where electricity was in short supply even in peacetime. her newest company at the time was called sunbonnets. it provided compact solar chargers which gazans could use to power small household appliances during the daily blackouts. or to success in your business feel like? >> success is how many people would have access. that's how we measure our impact. we don't care -- of course we employ people, we hire people, the average age of our company's 24. success for our company is allowing more people to get electricity. >> what's the electricity problem here for people who don't know? >> since 2006, gaza has been suffering from a crisis. we enjoy only 3 to 6 hours worth of -- i'm sarcastic by saying enjoying. for someone like me, i grew up

in the blockade. it's more than half my age. i used to study all of my college life on a campus. my parents were freaking out every day. you might be sleeping and this could burn the whole room. that is a fact. many families lost their kids at their houses because of candles. that always, you know, it is a passion for me. i wanted to do something to solve the issue. that is why we -- >> kids in gaza grow up with this idea that there is electricity for a short amount of time. what happens? is it a crazy amount of time when everyone plug everything in charges everything and the time you have electricity? >> yes. i wake up in the morning, i have to plan for having a shower at the end. other than that, i won't find hot water. she was born in the states. she came here to visit her family. the first message she sent to me was like, there is no hot water to have a shower. this is a fact. i used to wake up in the

morning. it becomes part of our life. people started to adapt their life around it. this is not the right thing to do. people should keep fighting for having 24 hours. some people feel happy when they have 8 to 10 hours. that should not make them happy. what should make them happy as having 24 hours because this is all right. >> talk to me about the travel. it's hard to travel. >> [laughter] yeah. >> what does travel involve for you? how is your travel different than my travel? >> well, it takes you two minutes to come to the region. some people coordinated for you. you get inside gaza of the west bank of israel. i need to apply for four different permits. it's with four different organizations or associations or authorities. it's not smooth. you can't go and apply. you need someone to apply for

you. you need someone to sponsor you. sometimes, you get an objection from jordan and you don't get the exit from israel. sometimes, you don't get the exit. every permit has an expert a. to get everything on the same plate, it's american. every time i leave gaza, different people support me to leave. the crazy thing is that sometimes they tell me it's impossible to happen. it just happens. i have no idea. >> if you were, i don't think the government here has ever come to you and said, how can we make it easier for people like you to start a business and run a business? if they did that, what would you tell them? >> it's a funny thing. when i was in germany, i saw the minister of business and energy sitting with two sets of women and telling them, what do you want? how can we support you as a government? i started to cry. the way that our government is treating us, it's very different. i have never gotten any support from the government.

when we try to do something, the government says, hey, guys, you are not allowed to do that. i don't want to say more details because it's on the camera. the thing is, i don't think it is that soon. i don't believe in the politics, the current politics, but i believe that we can create our own politics. >> that footage was shot by ali and his crew back in 2019. ahead of this weekend, ali did his best to reach out to her to make sure that she was all right. unfortunately, he was not able to get in contact with her. we wish her the best and hope that she and her family are all safe. we will be right back. safe we will be right back.

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plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch, it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> welcome back to velshi on msnbc. i'm charles coleman junior, in four ali today. the state of maine is breathing a sigh of relief after suspected mass shooter robert card was found dead following a

days long man hunt. continuing a familiar pattern after marines in america, the debate around gun control is now resurfacing. maine in particular has come under scrutiny as a state with a strong gun culture and very few restrictions. despite passing yellow flag laws, maine does not have universal background checks, gun owner licensing, open carry regulations, or even restrictions on assault rifles. hunting and gun culture is strong and main. this latest mass shooting left 18 people dead. it's causing some lawmakers to reassess their positions on gun control within the state. >> i have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime. the time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure. that is why i now call on the united states congress to ban

assault rifles like the one used by the sikh perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown of lewiston, maine. for the good of my community, i will work with any colleague to get this done in the time that i have left in congress. >> joining me now is former democratic senator doug jones of alabama, someone who knows the very fine line a democratic lawmaker must walk when they are in a red state. senator jones, thank you for joining me. if you are in a red state or a rural state or a state with a number of different world jurisdictions, depending on who you talk to, it's either a conversation around gun control or what people will here is a conversation about an attack on the second amendment. do you think that this narrative and the divide that it creates is preventing lawmakers from keeping americans safe? >> charles, thanks for having me. there is no question it is preventing folks from enacting

both local laws as well as national laws to keep people safe. people go to their corner. you said something very important at the top of this segment, charles. that is that this conversation usually occurs mostly after a horrific tragedy like happened in lewiston. we need to be having these conversations daily. we need to look at the statistics and talk to each other, not at each other. the moment you see something like what happened in lewiston, people go to their corners. those that are going to protect the second amendment get very, very defensive. those that want to ban all guns get very, very loud. we need to be having these conversations more and more every day because i do think that we can find common ground. gun owners don't like this violence and they don't want to see this kind of thing happen. we can learn a lot from that if we can talk to people and understand them. >> senator jones, i want to talk to you on a bigger level about some of the dysfunction

we are seeing on capitol hill. i want to focus on a lack of urgency particularly around house republicans. we have a number of different, very significant crises which are going on -- ukraine, the middle east, a looming government shutdown. it took house republicans over three weeks to elect leadership. how concerned are you about their behavior and what that potentially means for the overall operation of american democracy by its legislators? >> you know, charles, i'm very concerned about this. it seems that the republicans in the house, and to some extent, the establishment republican party as a whole, are just being held hostage right now by the maga far-right. people are too afraid to stand up for the institutions of government. people are too afraid to stand up against things that attacked the institutions of government because of a fear of either

alienating the far-right, alienating donald trump, or something else. that is paralyzing and it's what we've seen in the house of representatives this entire year. the last three weeks have been an exception to that. regardless of how you feel about the speaker like johnson, he hopefully can get down to work and can talk to people and be able to get to the government funding to stay open. it remains to be seen. everything right now seems to be a hostage negotiation rather than a functioning government. >> i want to stay with you really quickly right in your home state of alabama. senator tommy tuberville, he has blocked a number of different military nominees. at a time like this with everything going on, that looks particularly ominous. what is your message and your advice to lawmakers who are trying to get this done in terms of getting these appointments pushed through? >> well, i think it goes back to who is being held hostage.

republicans in the senate need to stand up and speak out against this. they've been very candid so far. they've spoken out some but they support the policy behind what tuberville is doing. what he is doing is absolutely moronic. they all know that. it's foolhardy to suggest. people have got to step up. that is the main message. i know there have been a lot of discussions going on. it's really time now to step up and help find a solution to this problem so that the military can go forward. in the long run, this is going to hurt the united states military and it's going to hurt our readiness. it's going to hurt morale. >> that was former democratic senator jon jones of alabama. thank you so much for your time and joining me on velshi. that's going to do it for me? thank you for watching velshi on msnbc. catch us every weekend saturdays and sundays from 10 am to 12 noon. i want to give a special thanks to my friend and colleague ali velshi for allowing me