>> we come on the air this hour with some major breaking news in the trump legal world. the judge overseeing donald trump's federal election

subversion criminal case just reinstated the gag order she issued on the ex president earlier this month. a significant development made by u.s. district judge tanya chutkan, who denied trump's request to pause the initial order while his appeal plays out. she also lifted a temporary freeze on the gag order that she issued on october 20th while she considered his request. now, you may recall the gag order, which was limited in its initial scope, had prohibited donald trump from making certain statements about the special counsel's team or potential witnesses, including any comments that directly targeted the court's personnel. potential witnesses, or the special counsel and his staff. here's some important context on this late breaking developments on the sunday evening. earlier this week, following a report that his former chief of staff mark meadows might have actually reached an immunity deal with the special counsel, donald trump attacked meadows on his failed social media

site. as a response to that attack against meadows, jack smith accused trump of threatening meadows, alleging that trump sent, quote, an unmistakable and threatening message to a foreseeable witness. he then asked judge chutkan to unpause that stay and basically reinstate the gag order. now in that 32 page filing, smith offered a stark warning here. he wrote in part, quote, otherwise without the court's intervention, the defendant will continue to threaten the integrity of these proceedings and put trial participants at risk. a lot of breaking news here, lots to unpack with this important decision. let's break it all down with glenn kershner, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, molly jong-fast, host of the fast politics podcast, of course she was also a special correspondent for vanity fair. glenn, we find ourselves here again. i want you to start with the very basics.

i want you to walk me through this decision for our viewers, that tanya chutkan, judge tanya chutkan, has just made. what did -- how did trump's comments about meadows factor into this late sunday evening decision? >> ayman, it could not have helped donald trump's cause that the minute judge chutkan stayed or paused her initial gag order, what did he do? he started saying and posting things that if the gag order remained in place would have been direct violations of that gag order. so we saw that at 7:05 pm eastern time today, she reimposed the gag order, she entered a summary entry on the public document, it's called a minute order, i suspect we may see a more complete written orders from her soon, saying she is reimposing the original gag order. as you said ayman, he is now

prohibited from talking about witnesses or the subject matter of their testimony. the court staff and jack smith and his team, interestingly, with the news that mike pence has just dropped out of the presidential race, it seems like he will now be included in that prohibition because he is now simply a witness who will be testifying undoubtedly at donald trump's criminal trial, because trump waged a relentless campaign against mike pence, trying to get him to violate the law, the electoral count act, so he's no longer a political opponent. it seems like he should be proud of the prohibition. so now, the only question that remains is how long before donald trump violates the reimposed gag order? >> yeah. that's a very important point. i just want to, again, explain to our viewers very clearly, molly, this is a situation in which jack smith had brought these charges against donald trump. donald trump, of course,

presumed innocent until this trial gets underway. at the right to say whatever he wanted. and even in the indictment, jack smith made clear that the president can go out and campaign and talk about whatever he wanted to talk about, so long as he did not threaten the witnesses or the officers of the court. and on october 20th, by the time trump had done this many times, the judge had issued this gag order, and then she was willing to even concede on appeal a stay until the appeal was ultimately decided. and yet, here we are finding ourselves again, because of what hass developed this week, donald trump, according to jack smith, violating that. and tonight, the judge saying that the gag order will be reimposed because we just simply can't have, i guess, donald trump attacking officers of the court or potentially intimidating witnesses. your reaction to these developments? >> i don't think anybody should be surprised by any of this. it makes a lot of sense.

donald trump has bullied people before. we've seen him use his social media, his enormous social media profile, to bully people who displease him. so it wouldn't make sense not to have this. and i don't think that -- look. this is a scary time, and donald trump has a lot of power over his followers. and they do things like they did on january 6th. so i think that having a gag order is the only thing that makes sense, and i hope that donald trump will do the right thing and realize that bullying people, you know, in the court, the clerks, you know, going to social media, he has a lot of power, and there really is a lot of danger. a lot of us forget, he used to be so loud, and he'd come after somebody, and their lives would be filled -- i mean, i had the sun came after me once, and it was like death threats --

it's really a scary thing. and we've seen this again and again. people who worked in the elections, i mean, this is really something we've seen. there's a precedent for this. >> you hope, but the truth is that it may be wishful thinking on your part that donald trump abides by this. i think if we were just to look at the number of times he has not followed a court's order, it suggests that he probably will not follow this. but i want you to talk to us about something i think we can all anticipate, which is the argument that donald trump is going to make that he is being targeted, somehow he's being singled out. the truth of the matter, if he's being singled out for anything, is that he's been given extensive amount of privilege in the way he's been able to go after courts, whether it be the trial in georgia or witnesses in georgia, as well as the jack smith and special counsel probe there. he is definitely someone who has pushed the boundaries of what i would argue normal citizens in this country would not have been allowed to get

away with up until this point. >> ayman, he has received preferential treatment. he's kind of the ultimate ruling class criminal. he's been above it all for so long, and when i was sitting in the argument a couple of weeks ago on the gag order, i was so disheartened when i heard judge chutkan, for whom i have the utmost respect, say the following. she said, if any other defendant who was on release in a felony federal case had said that the prosecutor handling his case was a deranged thug, that person would be in pretrial detention. and that is, one, inarguably true, based on my 30 years as a federal prosecutor, and two, it's sort of highlights and gives voice to the unequal application of the laws. so why isn't donald trump in pretrial detention? because for whatever reason, our institutions of government

have allowed extraneous factors -- i'm not gonna call them political factors, but extraneous factors creep into the calculation of whether somebody who violates the condition of release, whether somebody who is either a flight risk or a danger to the community should be detained pending trial. donald trump should be, and the one thing that we still haven't had answered is when you plough through jack smith's 32 page filing, page 31, he said, not only do we want you to reimpose the gag order, judge, which she has now done, but we want you to make it a specific condition of his pre trial release, which -- there's some legal gymnastics that go along with that designation, but what it means is that under section 31 48 of the united states code, if he violates it, he will be subject

to release and pretrial detention through his trial. so that's a question she hasn't answered yet, and that will help to answer the question, what will happen if he violates the newly reimposed gag order. >> glenn, a question about the law here. now that we know this gag order has been reimposed, does the appeal still continue or how does that play out? the gag order is now reimposed on donald trump, pending the appeal to the initial order on october 20th. is that correct? do i have that correct? >> you do. the appeal will continue, and the next thing i predict we see, now that they have lost the request to pause the gag order in the trial court, they will make the same request of the appellate court. they'll say, we want the appellate court to now pause it while we continue to pursue an appeal. i'm not a betting man, i don't want to lay a bet on this one, i don't think the appellate court will be all that amenable to pausing it, given donald trump's repeated apparent

violation of the terms that were in the gag order once it was lifted. so it's an open question, but i wouldn't expect the appellate court necessarily to intervene with its own pause. >> and molly, trump's lawyers have claimed that a gag order like this one would prevent trump from talking about, quote, key campaign issues. those arguments, i would argue, don't hold water, given the fact that there were specifically addressed in the documents that were presented as to why he still has the right to speak about this case. he just doesn't have the right to threaten the officers of the court or the witnesses. >> yeah. i think there's a real important difference between the trump targeting people who are involved in this case, clinics, you know, different lawyers, the judges, versus him talking on the stock. and these are totally different things. he can tell the difference

between these two things. so it's a pretty lame defense. i think the goal here is to stop him from bullying people who are involved in this case, and that is a noble thing, and quite frankly, no defendant should be bullying the people who are involved in their case. trump definitely is seeing a different kind of justice than a normal defendant. >> yeah, i was gonna say, really quickly, as a final thought, we are gonna begin the show tonight by looking at the legal week that donald trump had, and by everyone's assessment, it was a bad legal week for donald trump. it is safe to say as of 705 this evening, it is become an even worse week for the former president. molly jong-fast, thank you so much for joining us on this breaking news. glenn, i'll ask you to stick around, because we have a lot more to talk to you about, including this new reporting that mark meadows has immunity deal with the special counsel's office. what does that mean? could the former trump chief of staff now be turning on his ex boss? stay with us.

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goli, taste your goals. goli, taste your goals. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch, it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> welcome back, everyone. could donald trump's former chief of staff become a star witness for the prosecution? multiple sources tell abc news that mark meadows has now secured an immunity deal with the special counsel jack smith and exchange for his testimony before a grand jury in the justice department's election interference case.

this is the report that we are just referencing, but one that trump attacked meadows for, which possibly led to the reinstatement, or possib, should say, lead to jack smith calling for the reinstatement of his gag order which was issued just a short while ago. meadows has reportedly spoken with smith's team at least three times this year, including once before a fede grand jury, which came only after the special counsel granted him muty. a deal between mark meadows and the government has been th topic of speculation now for months, but this latest reporting from abc news marks the rst time that we received

confirmation that a deal actually exists. ong with that reporting comes new details about what mark meadows allegedly told investigators behind those closed doors. sources tell abc news that meadows told summits team that he repeatedly informed trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them -- also told investigators that's former boss was being, quote, dishonest with the public when he claimed to have won the election only hours after polls closed and before final results were in. glenn kirschner is back with me, also joining the conversation now, colorado secondary of state janet griswold. she also serves as the chair of the democratic association of secretaries of states -- grew to have you both with us. let me, secretary griswold, start with you, with this breaking news that we had just an hour ago or so, the reinstatement of the guy corridor on donald trump in this federal election interference case. just your initial thoughts on it. >> i don't think it should be surprising to anyone. donald trump is a liar who thinks it's okay to break the law and intimidate people who try to hold him accountable. like molly said in the previous segment, he has used inciting words and actions to lead to threats to his political opponents, legal opponents, anybody who he thinks is a

danger to him. so ultimately, i think it's good to protect witnesses and the courts. there's a lot of litigation all over the country, and we cannot allow donald trump to use threats or intimidation as a way to get out of accountability. >> let me go back, glenn, to, at the quarter of this, something that mark meadows's former aide, cassidy hutchinson, who has voiced one of the star witnesses in the january 6th probe on capitol hill and told my colleague just earlier this week. mark was sort of all over the board. and in some ways, he would privately tell me sometimes that the election that we had loss, or sometimes he'd private lee say to me that trump had said that we had lost the election. mark also was a key player in

bringing in characters like sidney paul, unlike tonight ellis. who now have seen and pled guilty. he would at times acknowledge what he ran for in the report. >> jack smith is going to have a very important part in all of this, let's say even before mark meadows cooperation came to light. and that was that he would have to try to establish or prove that donald trump knew and had been told that there was no basis for election fraud and that the election was not stolen. what kind of information could mark meadows provide to smith's team about those two central pillars of this case? >> amen, what's important is that there's two sides of the immunity coin. you just showed one side of it, so cassidy hutchinson testified that the january six select committee that mark meadows told her, then donald trump said certain things to mark meadows. , like i know i lost or yes i

know my supporters are attacking mike pence. he deserves. it you know because he did the wrong thing. and that's hearsay, coming out of cassidy hutchinson's mouth. it's directly admissible evidence as a statement of a party opponent when it comes out of mark meadows mouth because he heard donald trump say it as an exception to the hearsay roll, that's admissible against donald trump. that important evidence for jack smith to have. but, even the flip side of the immunity coin is prosecutors are genuinely not -- why,? because it's essentially giving someone a pass for their own criminal conduct in exchange for extracting from them the in criminal information about somebody else and without getting too far down into the weeds, the oliver north situation is a cautionary fill. because during the affair, when it's called to testify they were giving immunity before congress and then he was

prosecuted and convicted. and his conviction got reversed tick up busted on appeal because the appellate court was not confident that none of the immunized testimony did not come back and it wasn't used by prosecutors. so immunity is great but it can often make a future prosecution of somebody like mark meadows more challenging for prosecutors. so there are two sides to the immunity going here. >> i know you clarify that for, assembly that what could potentially be a challenge for jack smith ducey pursuits this deal, or i should say cooperation deal with mark meadows to be more for. site secretary griswold, your reaction to this alleged deal with mark meadows when it comes to protecting our democracy? do you think immunity in exchange for information to go after the man who was at the center of this alleged conspiracy to overturn our election is worth it? >> i think the litigation and

the charges are doing what they should do and that's bringing accountability to the american people for our president trying to steal the election from them and hold on to the presidency. and i think the prosecutors are making some prosecutions that i think are necessary for the and results. but i think it's important to say that it's mark meadows that flipping on trump. a lot of trump's inner circle suddenly flipping on it. and that's exactly the calculation that should be being made right now. before this-ification, people around trump decided to do whatever they could to stay in power, to stay close to trump, to gain economic financial aid from him. but now that they're faced with potentially going to prison for all of their conduct they are looking at, hey, this might not be such a good deal. so litigation overall is really necessary. we need to disincentivize

people like mark meadows, jenna ellis, sydney powell, donald trump from doing things that would jeopardize american democracy. >> and speaking of jeopardizing american democracy, secretary grizzle all have to ask you before you go, the new house speaker, mike johnson, maga my guess he was called last night on this program, one of the key architects in a plan to overturn the 2020 election result. what does it mean? not just symbolically. but some to deal with the practicality of protecting our elections, to have an election denier, now at the top of the house of representatives, the second in line to the u.s. presidency is a person who believed the 2020 election was not free and fair. >> i think what it symbolizes is american democracy still remains at great risk. and not only did mike johnson spew about voting equipment,

about the election, about nonexistent voter fraud but he also used his law degree to try to get a bunch of republicans in congress to join a litigation to stop the peaceful transfer of the presidency. and then even after january six he refused to certify the election. to vote to certify. so ultimately i don't see how republicans in congress can run from election denialism. they are complicit. they are complicit to the voter suppression laws, the threat to election workers, the threat to administration. because he is the speaker. and what i think we could see from him and why he's such a big danger besides just the position he holds is that he could push voter suppression, bills in congress. he could weaponize the house committees. he could try to exert influence. just like the hidden 2020 on election boards, and secretaries of state.

so overall i think that it's a dreadful sign that house republicans chose him. but ultimately the american people could write this ship. they could hold these votes accountable, and make sure to stop election denialism next year in the election. >> secretary of state, janet griswold, glenn kristen. or thank you so much chris for pulling double duty for us tonight. thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it, as always. up next, democratic congresswoman -- joins me to discuss the other extreme far-right beliefs of speaker mike johnson. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. blendjets halloween sale is back from the dead. take advantage of spine chilling savings. blendjet 2 gives you monstrous power for a delicious smoothie, shake, or frappé anytime, anywhere. cleaning blendjet 2 is scary easy. just blend water with a drop of soap. recharge quickly with any usb port. boo-gie on over to blendjet.com

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likely to be a very unfamiliar face to most of america. meaning he is an opposition researcher's dream, thanks to his 20 plus years of far-right rumblings, on radio shows and in newspaper columns that probably flew mostly under the radar until now as put by political, mike johnston is a social conservative social conservative. his voting record has earned him a lifetime rating of 92% from the american conservative union and a 90% from heritage action. and biden's first two, years johnson voted against a slew of bipartisan bills, including the 2021 infrastructure law. the reauthorization of violence against women act, a modest new gun law the chips act and one to establish in january six independent commission. but frankly, those votes also failed to convey the extent in the severity of johnson's radicalism so let me just share a few of his own words in an

editorial that read in his local louisiana paper, johnson once called homosexuality in inherently unnatural and dangerous lifestyle that would lead to legalize pedophilia and possibly even destroy the entire democratic system. his words. joining me now is congressman chair of the congressional equality caucus, and congressman it is good to see you thank you for coming back on the show. talk to me a little bit about meghan mike here. i have to get your -- will just get to that in a second, but i have to get your reaction to judge tanya chutkan reinstating that gag order on donald trump. what do you make of that? >> well thanks for having me, innocent people don't do what donald trump does, right? i think he keeps signaling over and over that he's guilty on this. and every time he decides to go after someone he is just digging his whole deeper. sunglasses the judge did it, it's the right thing to do but donald trump is donald trump. we've had other people who has

become president, and then a criminal night nixon. we have a criminal who became president. and we're dealing with the aftereffects. >> let me get your thoughts now on mike johnson the new speaker of the house. what was your reaction to him securing that house speakership given everything that i just read about his personal beliefs and his comments about homosexuality? >> i mean this is the modern house republican caucus, right? we saw the chaos of the last three weeks where we couldn't even have a speaker and when they finally picked one they picked one who is one of the most extreme members. i mean this is someone who orchestrated the election denial after trump's loss who said that we should challenge the electoral college votes impede laces like wisconsin. so he's been the architect of that much less than what you've talked about. he thinks that activity between two concerning adults should be criminalized. he thinks that no abortion should be allowed in any form.

he's got a bunch of positions that are far off from where the mainstream of united states is and it's going to be interesting to see how he actually governs with beliefs like that. >> so speaking of his beliefs, when someone says go pick up a bible in response to a question about their past bigoted statements. when someone suggest on their podcast that they don't believe in the fundamental ideal of a separation of church and state, how do they secure the unanimous support of the house of republicans -- the house republican conference and, more importantly how do you govern when you have to deal with people across the aisle who do not share those extremist views? >> this is an extreme republican caucus, they made a decision earlier this year that they're going to come and get democratic votes. we were going to offer bipartisan path forward, to share governance so that we could have a speaker. when they couldn't pick one for the weeks and now they finally picked one. but america is finding out just

how extreme this person is. but they are fine with, that it was a unanimous vote. so i think we have a bit of an idea where the modern republican party is. there's a reason why many people think that it's less of a political party than it is a cult of donald trump. whatever donald trump wants, they get. donald trump wanted mike johnson and he got what he wanted. >> there are some that have suggested that if there's any silver lining in all of this the election of mike johnson, the speakership it is that at least now the cat is out of the back, so to speak. that republican lawmakers and some of these purple districts, i believe 18 or so who went to joe biden but have republican representatives, they could no longer claim to be moderate on gay rights because they all voted for this man in what he represents and what he stands for. do you agree? do you see this much? i mean how much of an issue should democrats make of his speakership in 2024? >> well maybe most of america had heard mike johnson before of last, week but the entire republican caucus barely knew he was. they knew anything about.

him they knew about his positions, criminalizing case six, banning all abortions regardless of the conditions of trying to rig elections. they knew all of those things and they said that's exactly what we want to lead us. i think that so far out of the mainstream. not just of democrats and independents but even republicans are -- many republicans i know are not staffed with those extremist positions. so it's going to be, i think a tough sell for them to try to make a case next november that they want to be in the majority when we watch the chaos of caucus this whole first part of the year and i think they're going to continue to see it happen because i think it will be difficult to govern. >> speaking of difficult to govern, we've waited for weeks to elect a speaker and now we have about three weeks before they have to make some very tough decisions about the funding bill that will require bipartisan approval, and certainly working with the white house. congressman, if you don't, mind please stick around. i want to squeeze in a quick break, but on the other side of it i want to discuss with you the biden administration's

handling of the israel war and gaza what speaker johnson said about eight funding earlier today. g earlie today. silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. (sean) i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) ♪ yousean!d it! ♪ do you mean this one - the one with titanium? switch to verizon, and get iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) wow! (vo) get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. all three on us. only on verizon. today, president biden spoke on

the phone with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu by develop it on the ground in gaza according to a statement from the white house, biden reiterated that israel has the right to protect it to distance from terrorism and, quote underscored the need to do so in a matter consistent with international humanitarian law that protects, pride tour -- of civilians his administration's approach has been shaped by a series of political balancing acts that he has faced both here in the u.s. and abroad. but as the number of palestinians killed by israel's bombardment rises by the day, some parts of its base believed biden isn't doing enough to prevent loss of innocent life in gaza. nbc reports that muslims say that their support was critical to biden's winning the state back in 2020.

and warned that they won't back him over his blanket support for israel in the next election cycle. democratic congresswoman is back with me and he's a member, of course of the progressive caucus and has called for a hostility in gaza. congressman thank you for sticking around with us i appreciate you taking some time to discuss this. house speaker mike johnson said today that he thinks a stand-alone israel aid bill will likely pass the house this week. he does not want to see one that includes funding for ukraine. how are you planning to vote if a measure is introduced and what do you think about his approach? >> i want to see exactly what he's talking about, because we're not quite sure how he governs but, already 14.3 billion additional dollars and the systems to israel in a very small amount of that is going to humanitarian aid is problematic. and this is really about how they don't want to fund ukraine which is about 63 billion dollars as part of a security supplemental that they gave to congress. but to curve that out, first of,

all i don't think that they're going to take that up on its own. it's probably gonna come back to us with everything but i have a real problem just continuing to fund israel with munitions and extra weapons of what we see in what's happening right now. clearly conditions have to happen our money has to be very stern in saying that you have to allow humanitarian supplies in. you can target just blanketly civilians and the fact that, now over 8000 people were killed including 3000 children, 3000 children are not hamas and let's understand that and we need to have a much more active role so that we can make sure more innocent people, the 2.2 million people have that gaza are in perspective for what israel rightfully so. csis there biloxi took over hut and it's such a small part of population there we have to

protect the masses next to -- >> there is a significant matter at least one that has been growing between tradition and progressive democrats over the way the white house has been handling this war and its unconditional backing of israel. the new york times reports a left wing coalition of young voters people of color are showing more discontent towards the president. then at any point since he was elected. what do you make of this backlash against president biden? why are we seeing so much energy around this issue right now? >> i think everyone thinks what hamas did was horrific, over the attack killing women, children and babies and that's something that universally felt. but the response appears to be a punishment of palestinian to live in gaza rather than strategically going after hamas. and i think that's what people are seeing. and you can't continue to see thousands of children killed when they're telling us they're going after hamas.

and you see the leveling block. that is not a strategic attack to go after hamas and i think it's our own eyes and ears that are seeing things that are different. the president, to his credit does not wear his foreign policy and our sleeves. he is having a lot of conversations. i just think we need to have even more because the fact that they allow 20 truckloads of humanitarian aid in, and another day 17 truckloads for a 2.2 million people. 500 truckloads a day used to go into gaza with fool -- is dire. hospitals don't have equipment we need to do more since we are such a large funder of israel. i think it's incumbent on us to make sure that we are being heard about providing humanitarian aid, stopping the bombing honestly

whatever term people want to use we do seem to make sure that we are not killing innocent people anymore which we are doing too much of. >> the conflict as you know sir has also expose some sharp divisions among students. cooper union for example had an intense union and it was filled and shared widely. we are seeing a marked increase in anti-muslim rhetoric around this country. what kind of dynamics are we seeing play out right now and how do we address these issues what are we hearing from the leadership as the situation boils over here in the red states. >> the very first week i helped lead a letter on one of the points was to help call of this bias that we were seeing happen. i think

people can agree to that fact when they see what's going back and forth it's starting to cause real unrest among many people and i think we have to get involved to make sure that the killing does stop and then we get to have a peace process because it isn't our best interest. the middle east is crucial for foreign policy and we are huge funder for these weapon systems so i think taking an active role i was glad to see the present that we've been asking that for years and there's gonna be a lot more attention that has to continue. because what is the final outcome of this. i'm not sure the israeli government has given us an idea and not sure they have any idea. at the end of the day gaza was an open air prison. you can leave income goes you wanted to. it's been

awful conditions for decades and we need to make sure that humanity is recognized. that hasn't been in the last several weeks for sure. >> congressman thank you so much it's always a pleasure.. we're gonna take a quick break and we will be right back.. there's something going around the gordon home. good thing gertrude found delsym. now what's going around is 12-hour cough relief. and the giggles. the family that takes delsym together, feels better together.

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efforts to provide historical context for the wa athe root of this ithe increasing insistence that understanding ory looking at the order events and the consequences of previous actions to understand why the contemporary moment exists as it does somehow endorses t present. explanations are not excuses. they are the illumination that builds the future but the problems understanding with how we got where we are is that we can be implicated innocent victims cannot have responsibility for creating the moment. joining me now is often play right. thank you sarah for making time for us i read this piece i really want to have this conversation with you because that is the conversations happening elsewhere and one that was difficult to have. so i wanted to get a sense of why you felt the need to write this piece and how do we have society have a conversation trying to understand disrespecting the victims of the attack that happened on october 7th. and

coming across as having any kind of excuse or justification. for 75 years palestinians have been murdered this place and incarcerated. the conditions have been created that are untenable not exploded. but to look at it with a long view looks at it at our participation and suppressing an entire people. that is what's very uncomfortable and jews have been taught not to look at. i grew up in new york city and i'm 65 years old my parents had never heard of palestinians. they had no idea what was going on and they had experience jesus being victims. but as israel became stronger and militarized nation-state palestinians are pushed out of their homes and forced into refugee camps and exile, choosing to catch up and face the reality of history, so that we can understand why these

offenses are taking place.. a lot of people disagree and say that any type of looking beyond october 7th comes across as a justification. i want to play the soundbite of someone who is a regular guest on this network. she's a cofounder of the organization. when you play for you her argument get the reaction. we didn't get a single day to mourn this tremendous loss of life. to aggregate resources and try to help figure out these hostages. we all had to go on the internet and start combat-ing not just blatant and over alert antisemitism but all the people that started the because thing. the jews died because this and

because the government did this and this foreign policy. i don't know when we started justifying terrorism but that is alarming.. it's much more comfortable to believe that we are good impure never thing was great and out of the blue this evil entity came and committed an act of violence but that simply not the reality. the pressure that has been put on palestinian people, nobody wants to live under occupation siege. i would want to be occupied for one day. there's three generations now profound professionals, impossible to see that it would have consequence. the look at it that way, see the originating act -- that is of a cycle of violence is. that leads us to ask how we do get peace. we have to go back to the source. if we ended occupation, the siege. if everyone is treated as an equal human being with equal rights, i travel, to be

on whatever road. to fulfill their dreams and access to opportunity, there would be no violence. >> how do you distinguish between the debate that is happening around antisemitism, which is been on the rise and all around the world. how do you address that issue because it seems that the fear, about antisemitism which is on the rise is being conflated do not see it like that? >> a flattering 8000 people is not gonna help the fight against antisemitism but what's happening is the reality of antisemitism has been conflated people standing up and saying that this cannot go on in my name. people are opposing what's happening in gaza. hundreds of thousands of people marching. even in france and germany where demonstrations were forbidden. people went out in the streets,

and london was a four by the palestinian flags they brought out thousands of flags. in new york there's been demonstrations in every borough. there are jews on both sides of those demonstrations. i cooper union enough people are creating a false binary that it's pro palestine demonstrators and jewish students but there are plenty of your students for calling for a cease-fire. i'm on the advisory board of jewish voices for peace. we just had a demonstration and grand central station and to our people were arrested many jews opposed this war. >> i currently precip in this conversation with us. it's important to have at this time thank you so much for your time tonight. coming up we have a second hour after a quick break don't go away. >> telecoms gag order in the federal action case has been reinstated. we'll have the latest details in a moment. and then even more legal troubles for the ex president. his entire family

back to take the stand in his fraud trial. mike pence got whose help with a whimper. he barely made a dent in the 2024 presidential race. let's get started we begin this hour with the breaking news of donald trump -- aversion criminal case has reinstated a gag order she issued on the ex president just earlier this month tanya chutkan also denied trump's request to issue a long term stay of the order which bars him from publicly targeting court personnel, potential witnesses or the special counsel's team while his appeal played out. she played out. sh all three on us. only on verizon. want a smarter way to mop? introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop.

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