that does it for "the beat." you can always find me online at ari melber or arimelber.com, and thanks for spending time with us. "the reidout" starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> thank you very much. very big hello to a place where

we have done very well. sioux falls, thank you very much, sioux falls. so sioux city, how many people come from sioux city? how many people? >> not just the wrong city but also the wrong state. he says biden's losing it. that was trump on sunday, just hours before judge tanya chutkan reinstated the gag order in the federal election interference case. which he may have already violated. also tonight, my commentary on the violence in the middle east, and the questions we all should be asking. plus, the war's impact on politics here in the u.s. as republicans escalate their extreme rhetoric and president biden shows signs of political vulnerability, despite the good economic and labor news that just keeps rolling in. but we begin tonight with

donald trump getting a taste of what he has long complained he's always wanted, the same treatment under the law as every other american citizen. it comes in the form of a reimposed gag order from judge chutkan overseeing his federal election interference case in washington, d.c. the gag order which was initially put in place two weeks ago and temporarily lifted by judge chutkan shortly afterwards, prohibits trump from making public statements that could intimidate or harass potential witnesses or from making disparaging comments about the prosecutors, court staff, or support personnel. for instance, calling special counsel jack smith or his staff deranged or thugs would be a no-no. in her filing over the weekend, judge chutkan pointed to one of trump's social media posts during the pause on the gag order as a clear example for why it had to be put back in place. in the post, trump attacked his former chief of staff, mark meadows, a potentially important witness in the trial, as a weakling and a coward if, as the

reporting stated, he did in fact make an immunity deal with the special counsel for his testimony. she writes that it would have almost certainly violated the gag order had it not been paused. not surprisingly, trump is not taking kindly to the judge's decision, going on the attack against her. calling her a true trump hater with an incurable case of trump derangeable syndrome, which under the gag order he is allowed to say. trump also repeated his claims the gag order illegally and constitutionally takes away his right to free speech in the middle of his campaign for president. that's not true. the judge goes into great detail in her order as to why trump is wrong when it comes to the law. but this also brings us back to trump's long held desire for there not to be a two-tiered justice system in this country, that he should be treated like everybody else. that is exactly what judge chutkan is doing, during the hearing where she first imposed the gag order, the trump

acknowledged trump's first amendment rights and made concessions on his behalf but emphasized just because he happens to be running a political campaign does not ge him the right to use any language he wants. she said those critical first amendment freedoms do not allow him to launch a pretrial smear campaign against participating government staff, their families, and foreseeable witnse no other criminal defendant would be allowed to do so, and i'm not going to allow it in this case. trump now faces two gag orders barring him from discussing aspects of his legal cases in the public. in the other one comes from the judge overseeing his civil fraud trial in new york that prohibits anyo from publicly commenting about any member of the court staff. trump has now violated that order twice and fined $15,000 and was threatened with jail time by judge arthur engoron. and within hours of the federal gag order being reinstated, trump was already attacking another potential witness, his former attorney general, bill

barr. calling him among other things dumb, weak, and gutless. whether that violated the gag order is to be seen, and if so, what will judge chutkan do about it? before ending the hearing when she first imposed the gag order, she said, quote, if any party or counsel violates these restrictions i will consider sanctions as may be necessary. joining me is renato mariotti, former federal prosecutor and columnist for politico magazine, and tim o'brien of bloomberg opinion and an msnbc political analyst. renato, it falls to you to tell us what sanctions because donald trump so far when he violated the gag order in the civil case in new york has been fined a grand total of, what, $20,000, which he claims to be a billionaire, but still not much money. what sanctions could be imposed in this case? >> i think she's going to start with monetary penalties. that did have some impact even in that new york case that you

referred to, and you can't -- joy,io can't start right at 60. you don't go from 0 to 60. you raise the temperature little by little. i think the judge is going to start there, but where could it go? it could go to pretrial detention. that's what happened to sam bankman-fried. he ended up getting tossed in pretrial detention when he was leaking his witnesses' diaries to "the new york times." another possibility is she could move up the trial date. she's threatened to do that before. that's always on the table as well. she has wide discretion to do that. i can't think of anything donald trump would like les at this point. >> yeah, tim, i wrote one book about trump. you were in court with him. you know better than i do. where is the pain threshold for him? because we know it's going to be killing him that he can't call jack smith, you know, a bum or whatever he wants to call him. what do you think the pain threshold is where it will actually change his behavior?

>> i think putting him in jail. i don't think -- and as renato said, you don't want to go from 0 to 60 and throw him in jail right away, but i don't think monetary damages are going to shut him up. and he's actually, he probably thinks it's good value for his money. one of his goals here is to undermine the integrity of the rule of law and the court system and its participants. and to make all of this seem as if he's the victim, the court is corrupt, and there's no merit to the charges in any cases. he's doing this for all the cases. for him, $20,000, $80,000, $100,000 is probably money pretty well spent. will he want to spend a night in jail? i don't think so. the other thing that's looming over all this is in three of these cases, three black women are systematically using the law to strip the bark off him like an old tree.

and i don't think that that is sitting well with him. and he hasn't come right out and said it, but i think he does not like being cornered by three wardens of the law who he, i think, privately routinely and grotesquely disparages. i think the other thing, judge chutkan's ruling is nine pages and it was very direct, and i think it was very elegant. and she was very crisp in how she deflated both his criticisms of what was happening to him and reasserted the rule of law in this case. she didn't say she was cutting off his free speech completely. she said in fact, you can criticize biden, you can exercise your political speech, but you're not going to target potential witnesses or members of this process. that i will not let you do. >> i'm glad you said that about the three prosecutors of color because if i said it, a certain other network, their a-block tomorrow for 24 hours would be attacking me. let me go back to you, renato.

the thing is the other threshold and tim knows about this, is embarrassment. trump doesn't like being embarrassed. in the civil fraud trial, each of his kids is going to embarrass him this week beginning on went. donald trump jr., i me, you have seen him on social mea, i have seen him, tim has seen. we know what he . he testifies on wednesday. on thursday, it's eric's turn, the guy who snitched on the fact that they get lots of their moy from russia. trump himself, monday the 6th, and then ivanka, trump is extremely mad about that one, that she's going to testify on the 8th. what is the value to the civil case of their testimony and is the prosecutor going to try to use them against their father or just bolster the case that they were lying about the valuations of properties? >> yeah, i think the attorney general and her team have a lot to gain from that testimony. you know, don't forget, joy, they took the fifth a whole lot of times in their prior testimony in their depositions.

that puts them in a very tough spot because they really can't change their testimony now. they really can't say, well, actually, i took the fifth before. now i have a totally different approach and now i'm going to answer. i think it's going to be a bit of a circus, right? and realistically, it's just absolutely damning in a civil trial when you're asked questions like, did you engage in a scheme to defraud, and then you take the fifth. what does that do? obviously, the judge is entitled in a civil case to infer that your answer would incriminate you, which i think is devastating. as for ivanka, you mentioned trump is not going to be happy with her testimony. she's going to be trying to walk some fine line because she wants to remain on her dad's good side, but we all know her and her husband are always coming first in her mind. she's going to be concerned about her reputation, trying to weave some story, and unfortunately, i don't think

that's going to add up for her. >> she really is a billionaire thanks to the saudis giving her husband a big check. tim, the boys can't make their father love them no matter what they say in the testimony, that's just a thing. how much do you think that ivanka, who donald trump has talked about her like he's kind of married to her, which is kind of creepy and gross. how much do you think her testimony destabilizes him? >> you know, he prizes ivanka. i think he sees her as a sort of aryan trope he can parade around and it represents what he thinks is the best of his own gene pool. he's been over the years embarrassed by his boys, to a certain extent, both of the boys are fence posts, and he hasn't really ever had the same pride in them that he's taken in ivanka. and i think she over the years has made sure to stay in his good graces, while not going completely off the reservation in any way.

but she's osnever been as robustly in his corner and as completely maga as the boys are. and what you have here now, i think it's interesting that her testimony now has been delayed to come after his, because she's going to have to listen to what the boys say and find out what the boys say, and then what her father says, and then there's going to be documents. i think the prosecutors are going to paint her into a corner factually. it won't really matter what her allegiances are or how she wants to play her father's graces. she's going to have to figure out whether hoar not she wants to personalperjure herself in t courtroom and whether or not the fact pattern is completely damning in her own role that donald trump and his sons and she have all played which is to routinely and artificially inflate the value of trump's holdings or to deflate them in order to cheat the tax man or goad banks into lending him money depending on what their preferences are.

those are essentially the two things that are in play in this court case, and ivanka becomes a material witness which i don't think she wants to be. >> i tell you, tiffany is the smart one. let me play you something that was quite hilarious. this is just for you, former prosecutor. this is donald trump in iowa. >> cost me a couple billion dollars to be a politician. and then they made it much worse with legal fees. i have $100 million worth of legal fees, and they're doing good, at least i have good lawyers. you can spend $100 million and have lousy lawyers too, and that happens. >> you can spend $100 million and all your lawyers can end up in court cases with potential felonies. $100 million of his supporters' money. >> he's paying $100 million for these lawyers. they are definitely not worth

there 100,000 versus $100 million. i have to say, very bad lawyers and yet another lie from trump. we all know he's not really paying his lawyers. that's why he ended up with some of the worst lawyers where have seen handling criminal cases. some of which, of course, are defendants themselves, right? we have had a parade of them going to fani willis' courtroom in georgia. what a crew that he has assembled. that's for sure. >> melissa murray coined it, maga stands for my attorneys get attorneys. renato and tim, thank you both, my friends. coming up on "the reidout," president biden calls for a big increase in the flow of humanitarian aid into gaza as hawks and critics try to leverage the conflict in a way that hurts him with american voters. "the reidout" continues after this. dout" continues after this . that was me... until i ditched all the pads and pills and found real relief with axonics therapy. i want that for you too!

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. it's no secret that president biden's unflinching support for israel and its military response following the deadly hamas attacks has triggered a deep cleavage within the democratic party. there are those grateful for the support, and those who are appalled by it. this has drowned out major economic victories for the country, including news the united autoworkers just secured a new labor contract with general motors, one of the big three auto companies which will

bring to an end a more than 40-day strike and usher in higher wages and better protections for the changing industry. last week came word the u.s. gross domestic product increased by 5%, a number trump never achieved except during a single quarter after covid lockdowns lifted. despite all that, a majority of americans remain skittish buck the economy and polling shows they favor republicans on economic issues. minnesota congressman dean phillips seized on those numbers to announce his intention to challenge president biden for the democratic presidential nomination with the goal of getting others to join the race. >> maybe people think right now that fighting each other is the way through this. it's not. it has never worked. are we going to vote out of fear, are we going to continue down this path of anger and aggression and division and fighting one another? or are we going to start fighting together? >> do you believe your candidacy

could soften the ground for others to get in? >> i hope it does. i hope it does. sincerely hope it does. >> right now, phillips and marianne williamson are the only democratic challengers but they join cornel west and the very weird robert kennedy jr., and also the looming threat of the third party no labels which continues to increase its presence on state ballots. while president biden struggles to hold the democratic coalition together, the republican party continues its march toward renominating donald trump. this weekend, mike pence who just three years ago was a heart beat away from the presidency and trump's dutiful servant announced he was bowing out of the 2024 presidential race. he announced it in las vegas. at the same event and through the rest of the weekend, trump reminded voters what a second term would look like with him in office. >> the united states will stand with israel all the way, 100%, without hesitation, without

qualification. and without any apology. we're not going to be apologizing. if you spill a drop of american blood, we will spill a gallon of yours. i will cancel the student visas of hamas and sympathizers on college campuses. the college campuses are being taken over. >> one thing with us that if you try to kill our citizens, we will kill you. we will kill you. to all of the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests all over this country, all over the world, this month, come 2025, you will find that we will deport you because these are people that are against our country. >> ooh, on top of all that, the former president has also promised to cut taxes for the wealthy again, weaken the nato alliance, fire civil servants and he vowed to go after biden,

yes, that guy, coordinating efforts to overthrow american democracy, among other things, that guy is the odds-on favorite for the republican nomination and has a 50/50 chance of getting to run this country again. good times. joining me now is michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst. and terry bacon jr., columnist for "the washington post." thank you all for being here. michael, let nee go to you first. you know, between donald trump not knowing where he is sometimes, being a little confused, and vowing to deport students who he doesn't like their politics and do another muslim ban and cut taxes for the super rich again, explain to me how he seems to have a stronger hold on his base than joe biden who has a solid economy and a deal with the uaw. >> because his base is loyal to the ideas that trump has been pushing out there.

why? because that's how they see the world. that's how they want the world to be. the one thing about politics and you know this from covering for so many years, joy. candidates and their supporters, the voters, there's a symbiosis there, a connection there, and voters oftentimes see their elected officials as an extension of themselves which is what i have been trying to get people to understand, the reason why donald trump is tied with joe biden right now is a lot of americans see donald trump as an extension of themselves, how they see the world, how they feel put upon and placed out by transgendered issues and crt issues and those things that they just don't want to identify with. as for democrats, i don't know what the hell they are thinking. i have no idea. i mean, you have an incumbent president who has laid out, i mean, with the level of clarity that is, i mean, i wish we had

that kind of clarity back in 2010. i mean, 65 seats, i would have had 70, 80 seats in the house if i had that kind of clarity that this guy has laid out, yet democrats are second guessing themselves, buying into the hype that they're getting from republicans about the president's age and about the issues. instead of staying focused on the fact that he is the only game in town that's going to hold their place in line and win the election. period. but here we are. >> you know, parry bacon jr., you wrote an excellent piece that talked about one of the issues that is dragging president biden down, that is this issue of gaza and of israel. where there is a definite cleavage between more progressive people in the party and more centrists, and on age. younger folks of all ethnicities

are much more are much more empathetic toward the palestinians than biden, who is extremely empathetic toward the israelis, and that's a breach. my theory in the case is really it's only democrats that vote on issues. they vote on the economy. if things aren't good in the economy, they'll stay home, they'll pick an issue and vote on it. republicans just vote for the republican. your thoughts on this issue and how it's impacting biden's re-election? >> i like to be part of a party in which people can have differences and respectful differences and i think there are respectful differences on policy, on israel and a good debate. i'm planning to vote for joe biden and i think most people who are talking about this is. i can object to a policy or two he's doing and still vote for him. i appreciate the republicans fall in line. i like that democrats are more diverse in terms of ideology, age, race, religion. that's a useful thing. it's hard to unify a party that has so many different people in it. that's a good thing that the

democratic part ise is so diverse. that said, and to be fair, i think -- i don't think dean phillips is a huge threat to joe biden. i know he's running. look, if in january, raphael warnock said i was running for president, i would have thought about voting for him myself, but the primary is over now. it's now time where joe biden and kamala harris are the ticket. that's where things are headed. voters are concerned about biden's age. that's real. and that's not just 30-year-olds. i meet some 60-year-olds who feel that way too. that said, he is doing a good job as president most days. i didn't love the comments about civilian casualties for palestinians last week. i thought he should have phrased that differently and he has phrased it differently since then. that said, i think when it comes down to it, donald trump versus joe biden, i think most people will come together. he's got work to do with arab americans who in michigan bring up issues.

they have not been happy. there's a sense he's sort of values israeli lives over palestinian lives. he has a year to fix that, but i think there are things to improve on his policy while thinking most people voted for biden over donald trump will still do that. >> you know, and i think those are good points, michael, but the fact that democrats are so idealogically and racially and religiously diverse, it is harder for any president to make that whole group of happy, whereas republicans just want tax cuts and not to have to read about black history. give me those two things and i'm good and do a muslim ban and they're cool. >> that's true of today's republican party. you know, the older version, the original version of the gop, you know, suffered from some of that as well. in fact, i would say, and this could be a little bit of a warning for democrats, that because we did not pay attention to those distant voices within the party that were feeling put

out and not really paid attention to, that festered and germinated to what we see today. and it's a backlash, and i have said this on a number of occasions. you and i have talked about it, joy, this fight inside the gop is not new. this goes back to the 1950s. it goes back actually to the 1930s. the republicans did not know how to respond to the new deal, so there was friction with those who felt they could, you know, capitalize on it and those others who wanted to destroy it. that narrative still exists. it's true within the democratic ranks right now, big broad tent, a lot of voices. a lot of different interests. but the party leadership with the head being the president, has to figure out narratively how to get everybody on the same page at a critical time like this, meaning voting. that vote needs to turn out. that vote needs to be consistent across all of the states that are in play. and that's one of the bigger

dangers for democrats right now. >> yeah. last word to you on this, perry. because abortion did do that in the last election. in 2022, abortion was able to bring democrats together. is that issue going to be powerful enough to get joe biden back on track when there are all these other issues that are distracting his base? >> i think we saw in 2022 the combination of abortion, the sort of election denial, and then sort of the sense that democracy was under threat. 2018, 2020, 2022, these have been extremely high turnout elections even though the average democrat does not love biden the way they did barack obama. i think people are motivated if donald trump is the nominee, i still think people will run out of their houses to vote against him, you know, not necessarily for biden, but against him. i think that's where we are. and also, the new speaker of the house makes it easier to run against the maga because he's sort of ultra, ultra maga even.

>> yeah, and christian nationalism is definitely on the ballot. good to see you. thank you both, two of my buddies there. up next, israel intensifies its air and ground assaults on gaza as the rapidly rising death toll leads to increasingly urgent calls for a cease-fire. my commentary on that is next. stay with us. h us

sometimes in this journalism

business, it is hard to get the words exactly right. particularly in a situation that is complex and layered, which evokes so much deep emotion and conflict and where people's lives are literally at stake. and given how brittle the feelings are to the point where many americans are afraid to say anything at all, we should be able to agree on a few fundamental. first, that it is wrong to kill children. whether they are israeli children or palestinian children, it is wrong to kill kids in a concert field or in a kibbutz or in a hospital. in fact, it's morally repugnant. if we can't agree on that, we can't be friends. we should also agree that anti-semitism is wrong, full peri. it should horrify everyone we're seeing attacks again jewish people here and abroad like the online messages threatening violence against jew students at cornell university or the anti-semit tha stormed an airport tarmac in russia apparently searching for jewish passengers on a f fro

israel. or the heil hitler message. no hatter how you feel about the government in israel and what that government does, that is not an excuse to take out your anger on israeli people. keep in mind, some of your strongest allies in your outrage on behalf of palestinians are jewish. they are protesting beside you and getting arrested with you at those protests. and many of them are walking around in shock and horror and fear right now because of october 7th, worried about their families and wondering who their friends are. likewise, you can't judge every palestinian or every muslim or arab based on what hamas did any more than you can judge every american by the fact that some americans elected a religious extremist backed wanna be autocrat and multiple indicted criminal who tried to overthrow

the government and still might. and it should be needless to stay, it doesn't mean you love hamas or support them. the hamas attack killed an estimated 1400 people, including children, according to israeli authorities. and as of tonight, the death toll in gaza has topped 8,000 since october 7th, including 3400 children. according to the gaza health ministry. president biden may say he doesn't believe palestinians when they say how many of them have been killed, but reporting by news organizations like the a.p., reuters, and our own reporters on the ground make it clear the numbers of dead and the devastation in gaza are staggering. the internet and some electricity have been turned back on, at least for now, and journalists and people in gaza are still getting pictures out so we can see with our own eyes that the situation is dire, and the violence goes beyond bombs. the u.s. is warning israeli prime minister netanyahu to rein

in extremist seters in the occupied west bapg in wake of reports against palestinians there. according to the associated press, aewh settler shot and killed a palestinian man who was harvesting olives near west bank city. this means at least seven palestinians have been killed by settlers since the latest violence broke out more than three weeks ago. with that as a backdrop, netanyahu gave a war speech over the weekend that can only be described as a religious call to arms, citing a biblical reference when saying, quote, you must remember what omalechas done to you, says our holy bible, unquote. for those not familiar with the biblical term, here's the relevant quotation fro first samuel 15:3. now go, attack the amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. do not spare them. put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

which does not sound like self defense. frankly, it sounds a lot more like a call for genocide. israeli jets have bombarded not just northern gaza but southern gaza too despite israeli officials calling on the palestinians to flee south. and given these bombings are being done using our tax dollars, perhaps we should ask some questions. for example, how does bombing a densely populated land strip filled 50% with children constitute self-defense? how does bombing hospitals, churches, mosques, and u.n. schools constitute self-defense? well, you say, if hamas fighters are hiding in the hospital using the civilians as human shields, okay. let's say they are. are you arguing that flattening the hospital and killing newborns in their incubators and their moms in the nicu, cancer patients, some with a broken leg, doctors, nurses, and kids hiding in the hospital, that's not a war crime? because you would be wrong,

according to international law. well, why don't the people in gaza turn over hamas militants to the israelis? okay. how do you propose they do that? hamas is the de facto government in gaza, and they're the ones with the guns. the leaders of hamas aren't even in gaza. if they were, if you were a teenager, living in an open air prison getting bombed day and night by let's say mexico, and mexican police kicked in the door and raiding your house and turned off the water and took your food, what are you going to do, side with them, help them while you're dying? that's like asking why black folks don't help or trust the police. after 9/11, we bombed afghanistan in self-defense. yeah, we did. and did that put an end to al qaeda or get bin laden? no, it did not. because like hamas, bin laden wasn't in the country we were bombing. president obama got him ten years later in pakistan using special forces. bombing afghanistan did buy us a

20 year occupation that got us more enemies in the muslim world when we scooped people off the battlefield and threw them in gitmo and when we threw in a war against iraq based on lies by a bush administration that traded on our anger and fear, the world rose up against us as we committed torture and tossed former iraqi police and soldiers into makeshift gulags and those prisoners later turned into isis. oh, and the taliban are back in control in afghanistan, so again, what is the goal? of mass bombing gaza? is it to find the people hamas militants abducted on october 7th? okay, how? by flattening whatever shelter they're taking from the bombs. don'tia risk killing them all by bombing them with the palestinians? just some relevant questions. and trust me, people do want answers. over the weekend, protests erupted around the world with hundreds of thousands of demonstrators rallying in cities in europe, the middle east,

asia, copenhagen, scores took the the streets in the u.s., shutting down the brooklyn bridge in new york and a major highway in san francisco. the call in each of those protests was for a cease-fire, a word for some has somehow come to mean anti-semitism and a lack of care about those who were brutally killed on october 7th or even support for hamas. how then do you explain the family members of some of those held by hamas who are also calling for a cease-fire? what would a cease-fire even mean? well, it would literally mean both sides stop shooting. no more rockets into israel, no more jets into gaza. it would mean a prisoner swap by third parties which sadly probably doesn't include us at this point. it would mean getting food, water, and medicine into gaza and not pushing for 2 million palestinians to expel themselves to egypt or jordan, likely to never be allowed to return. hopefully, it would mean tamping down the mccarthyism and the doxing and anti-semitism and

islamophoia in our own country and europe, and somebody, actually working to solve the real problem. which is a 56-year occupation of the west bank in gaza strip that has sparked and will continue to spark vehement and yes even violent resistance, whether hamas exists or not. it's a lot to unpack. and sometimes it feels like an impossible conversation. but we need to have it anyway. today, tomorrow, and in the many days ahead. today, prime minister benjamin netanyahu said a cease-fire will not happen at his latest speech pointed at an international audience. what that means for the region and the world is next. hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪

♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪

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today, israeli officials claimed their forces rescued a soldier who had been captured by hamas militants in the october 7th terrorist attack. the private is said to be in good condition and has been reunited with her family according to a joint statement from the israeli defense forces. this comes hours after the military wing of hamas released a chilling video showing three female hostages. one who was speaking critically of netanyahu and his government. however, it's unclear if she's speaking of her own volition or reading hamas propaganda from a script. it all comes as israel has

intensified its attack of the gaza strip. the ministry has said the death toll has surpassed 8,000. prime minister netanyahu today forcefully rejected calls for a cease-fire. >> just as the united states wouldn't agree to a cease-fire after the bombing of pearl harbor or 9/11, israel will now agree after october 7th. calls for a cease-fair are calls for israel to surrender to hamas, to surrender to terrorism, to surrender to barbarism, that will not happen. >> joining me is peter binard, bibi netanyahu brought up 9/11, what we did after 9/11 was bob hunter-y that bin laden was not in, start a war that had nothing to do with 9/11, i'm not sure that analogy works for him, what did you make of it?

>> right, like the united states israel has the capacity to go in and oppose hostile government, it's a powerful military. what the united states learned in very difficult ways is it is easy to get in, it's difficult to get out, and you may look strong at the beginning when you put to pose the government, israel wants the ste-rose strength. but you end up looking week when you're in a quagmire. no one that i have heard in the israeli government and their supporters here has a good answer to the question of what happens after they depose this mosque government, no one in israel wants to stay in gaza, they know they'll be doing with an insurgency, killing israeli soldiers as long as they're there. any government they try to prop up, anti palestinian they try to prop up will collapse the minute they leave. this is the same problem the u.s. had in afghanistan and iraq. instead of invoking 9/11 to say, we're gonna do what you did, israelis would be widely took and wiser to learn from our

mistakes after 9/11. >> the other thing he brought up was the pearl harbor attack but, by the time the united states drop bombs on harris shoah and nagasaki the war was over, we obliterated two entire cities for no war purpose. if you watch oppenheimer, the documentary, it was in part because they wanted to see what it would do. where the only country that ever dropped a nuclear weapon, the only one, i'm not sure that analogy works because it means needless suffering, it's not a good excuse for -- needless suffering. >> no, in fact it's not just fundamentally wrong to kill innocent people who have nothing to do with the evil attack that hamas committed on october seven. we know that how mass recruits its fighters from the families of people who were killed by israel. for every person you kill, it's not just that that is immoral to kill innocent people, it's

also that you're producing the next generation of fighters who you will be having to deal with a generation later. even if it's not called a mass, it's hamas three point oh, the truth is the palestinians has been fighting against israel and resisting israel since the very beginning and will continue to. sometimes unethical ways, sometimes in horrific ways until they have their basic rights. that's what all human beings do, all human beings resist oppression. the united states was not occupying japan when her barber happened. israel is occupying millions of palestinians in the west bank. yes, also in gaza, it controls, it's like a president it controls with egypt from the perimeter. if you treat people that way they're gonna fight back. what's really important for israel united states to do is to try and strengthen those palestinians who resist ethnically, who do so in the name of human rights and mutual coexistence, and international law, and weaken the people that do the horrors like hamas did.

what i fear is again and again we have done the opposite. when palestinians go to the u.n., gone to the international criminal court, when they've talked about nonviolent tactics like sanctions, you don't need to support every single one, but if you oppose all of them and you criminalize them in the united states as we've done, by saying you can't get a job in state government unless you sign a pledge saying -- you know what you're doing, you're sending the message to hamas that nonviolence, ethical resistance does not work. and that strengthens a mass. it doesn't mean anyone except hamas is responsible, of course only hamas is responsible, but it sends the message that that's -- and it's very dangerous. >> there's also the climate issue. we've created a climate now where people who are marching for palestinians to have rights, to have self determination, for there to be a palestine are being doxxed, being threatened with losing jobs. every protest that is pro

palestinian is being labeled as -- there is a chilling effect that people are afraid to say anything even if their moral compass says, don't like the idea of seeing children bombed, there's people even afraid to say that. >> right, we're in a terrifying climate because antisemitism is rising. i know very firsthand that everyone in the jewish community is very, very terrified about this, what's happening, and there's a tremendous amount of anti palestinian racism. and that often doesn't get named, they don't even have a term for anti palestinian racism, we're seeing these kids are getting doxxed, we'll have to leave college, they're talking about banning students for justice in palestine. i have my disagreements with this group, they have the right to free speech and the idea that ron desantis thinks he can banned them from florida campuses, we need to come together to defend each other's rights, the jews have the right to be safe on americas campus,

the jews have a right to speak freely, and the palestinians have the same rights, and ultimately our safety is intertwined, it's intertwined in israel palestine, it's intertwined here in the united states as well. >> peter beinart, thank you so much always a pleasure to speak to you even in horrible times, thank you. we'll be right back. 'll be right back. and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> and that a nights the

reidout, inside with jen psaki starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> right now donald trump is continuing to