find a physical copy. that's all i could do at the last second. it does detail so many scoops, jake. i think you should open an ice-cream shop along with punchbowl news. >> that was as corny as it gets. thank you. >> i thought it was pretty good. shake sherman, thank you so much, good to see you, my friend. we'll watch what happens next on capitol hill. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" has a whole lot of news, so do not go anywhere because it starts right now. hi, there everyone. it's 4:00 in new york on a day where we are covering a veritable tsunami of news with major developments in the slew of legal battles bearing down on the disgraced twice impeached four times indicted, president. as we come on the air today, the ex-president's son is on the stand in a manhattan courthouse. he's testifying in the civil fraud trial that could drive a

stake through the heart of the trump business and brand. you can see him here entering the courtroom a few hours ago. he is the first member of the family to be called as a witness by state prosecutors, but he will not be the last. his brother eric is set to testify, as well as his sister ivanka, and his dad, the ex-president himself, who is scheduled to take the stand monday. donald trump jr. along with his brother eric trump have spent their entire careers at the trump organization. eric runs day-to-day business, and trump jr. is a trustee of the business entity that technically controls the entire trump org. because of their roles, they stand accused of committing fraud for years and years and years, involving those financial statements that have been submitted by the company. in his testimony so far, donald trump jr. has been asked about his grasp of accounting on that nbc news reports, quote, he said he was aware of what g-a-a-p is,

quote, generally accepted accounting principles. it was accounting 101 in the late '90s, but other than that, quote, i know nothing about g-a-a-p. he said he leaves those details to his accountants. let's bring in form respect to official at the department of justice andrew weissman. also joining us former congressman from florida and msnbc political analyst david jolly, and "new york times" reporter katie benner is here. andrew weissman, we will have full coverage of the day's developments as soon as they end. but we wanted to duck into this quickly with you. what does it mean that the defense or what we've heard of it so far is -- i didn't know anything about accounting? >> well, it remains to be seen exactly where they go with this. you know, obviously the more he knows about accounting and business from his training at wharton, the more it's harder for him to sort of deny understanding the methods and

means that the attorney general says were used to artificially inflate their assets. but there is ways in which there's still going to be able to cross examine and effectively. they already laid a little bit of groundwork because one of the things that he adheres -- appears to have his hands in is valuing property as if there were no rent-stabilized units in the property. saying that they can be rented at market rate. you don't need to go wharton and you don't need to know gaap accounting to know this a building that has a lot of rent-stabilized units which, by the way, as a new yorker we all know, and don jr. certainly knows, that is really different in terms of valuation than a property where you can just rent at the current market rate. so i suspect that may be one of the lines of examination that we're going to hear later today and tomorrow.

>> and donald trump jr. is the first of a week of testimony, andrew, that is set to feature ivanka trump and eric trump, as well. what do you expect the three of them together to illustrate? >> well, i mean, i think there's going to be differences among them because while you have some people where they're on paper involved and it's going to be interesting to see how they try and duck out of what they knew when they're going to be confronted with emails and texts and documents that they signed, and including some that they were shown today about having power of attorney over various organizations, that's one line of cross. the other is, you know, eric trump i think has basically said, you know, i didn't really play a role in this. so if he's going to stay with that line, he can't really deny that there was fraud then. so you know, it's got to be one or the other.

he can't say i don't know anything about it, but by the way, i know there was no fraud. it will be interesting to see what tack they take, and i suspect that we may hear different things from the three children. i say children, you know, in air equal rights because, of course -- in air quotes because, of course, they're the children of donald trump, of course. >> so what i put in air quotes was ducking, decking out of what they know. let's stay on that -- one great mind and one notetaker here. as i said, this is ongoing, donald trump jr.'s testimony is ongoing. as his ends and as soon as we can get some reporters out of that courtroom, we'll break into what we're doing and tell you all about what happened. we want to start with some extraordinary and really important and really harrowing new reporting in "the new york times" that puts unfortunately the very real possibility in the second trump presidency into some pretty alarming and specific perspective. this pete piece details trump's plan to take a wrecking ball to the rule of law in the united

states should trump return to the white house with the structural remaking of the executive branch's legal norms. from that new reporting, quote, close allies of donald trump are preparing to populate a new administration with a more aggressive breed of right-wing lawyers. dispensing with traditional conservativesho they believe stymied hisgenda the first te. the allies have been drawing up lists of lawyers they view as ideologically and temperamentally suited to s in a secon trump administration. their aim is to reduce the chance the that politically appointed lawyers would frustrate a more radical white house agenda as they setes did when trump was in office by raising objections to his desires for certain harsher immigration policies or for greater personal control over the justice department among others. that means no bill barr, no pat cipollone, no jeffrey rosen, all of whom were very willing to work for the ex-president until the very end, very willing to enable him in all sorts of

misadventures. but they drew the line at the coup, at overturning the results of the election, using baseless claims of election fraud. watch. >> made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying -- putting out this stuff which i told the president was [ bleep ]. and you know, i didn't want to be a part of it. and that's one of the reasons i went -- went into he deciding to leave when i did. >> it's fair to say that i agree with attorney general barr's conclusion. first yes, i did, and i supported that conclusion. >> so now trump's allies want more lawyers like jeffrey clark. he's the guy who faces felony charges for trying to take the reins at the justice department in the final days of the trump administration. and lend doj's credibility to trump's lies about the 2020 election. "the new york times" reports should jeff clark manage to stay out of prison, he would, quote,

most likely be in contention for senior justice department position in any second trump administration. the key litmus test here -- whether you're willing to do whatever it takes to act on trump's paranoid dangerous conspiracies and impulses. the "times" reports th, quote, they want lawyers and federal agencies and in the white house who are willing to use theories that more establishment lawyers would reject, advance his cause. this new mindset matches trump's declaration that he's waging a, quote, final battle against demonic enemies populating a deep state within the government that is bent on destroying america. re than any legal policy statement on his campaign website, retribution may be the closest thing to a governing philosophy for trump as he seeks a second term. i want to start with his threat against mark milley because i think it's important to have a pick is example of what these lawyers would carry out. now, david jolly, his threat against mark milley is to hold him accountable for treason, the

crime publishable by death. i don't know any of these names, and i want to be careful not to put this list on the right left continuum because what trump had last time were individuals on the far right of a right-left continuum. this is more democracy auto crazy, rule of law, disregard for rule of law, the reporting suggestions he's grabbing for. because the lawyers last time allowed him to enact a muslim ban or at least try a few times to do so. the lawyers last time enabled him to direct the justice department in ways that journalists like katie are still investigate and reporting out, the firing of jeffrey berman, the investigation of democrats, efforts to prosecute andrew mccabe, efforts to prosecutor jim comey. just because they were not successful doesn't mean he didn't have people around him more than willing to try or incapable of stopping or slowing those urges. we're talking about next level. and again, using the example of what he has said he would do to chairman mark milley.

what do you think that means? >> yeah, i think starting with mark milley's appropriate because it starts and ends, analysis does, with donald trump's interest in threats and retribution. and i think you could also title that article "what if steven miller is the next attorney general?" because whether or not he is, i presume he could not pass senate confirmation, but that's the type of person that donald trump looks to elevate into roles of great constitutional consequence. then i think that the follow-on question is what if american politics has changed forever, what does that look like? a president who uses the office and puts people in place for a couple of reasons. one, for a scorched earth agenda that is sure ideological, but in donald trump's world idealogy is also kind of the white nationalistic throwback where principles of equity and equal rights are abandoned.

secondly, what an enemies list? that is part and parcel to this. if you are saying donald trump is going to put people around him which is clear, who will advance his personal autocratic interests as well as an idealogy that is toxic, you can't actually do that without also saying he's going to have people around him executing against an enemies list. and i think among those who have been never trump detractors and this should include many in the press today, what does it look like if american politics has changed forever? it starts with changing how law enforcement is enacted at the federal level. and that is the danger of a second trump administration. >> katie bennett, the reporting is interesting and follows reporting i believe by some of the same journalists about what a second trump presidency would mean in the areas of immigration. but again, i think -- i went back and looked at what -- what the only trump administration meant. on immigration, he caged children, and again it was

journalists that brought to light the incredible brutality of his border policy. he'd built part of a black painted wall with spikes at the top designed in his mind by his own telling to impale people trying to cross it. i mean, the policies on immigration were sadistic. what does more mean in that area? more legal authority to do what? >> i think that more means no people saying no. so one of the reasons he only built a portion of that wall is because he had several lawyers at dhs and other parts of the administration explaining why what he wanted to do was impractical or illegal. and i think that that's really what the next trump administration would want to do away with. it's not necessarily a plan, it's not necessarily from the reporting anything specific or specific goal because it's not really how trump has operated ever. it's more that he does not want opposition so that when he does come up with an idea that it will be enacted and nobody will

say no. and i thought that was probably the most interesting thing about the report. and the fact that the reason why this is all coming to light and there's chatter about it and -- enough chatter that reporters would find out about it, is there a sincere belief within trump's orbit that he is going to win, which says a lot about his mindset about the criminal cases around him. he understands if he lose its does not impact his popularity or base. if he wins, it makes him really invincible. he sees himself in some ways in a situation where he likely will win the next election, and most important thing should that happen would be that he no longer face opposition from his own administration. >> andrew weissmann, his stated purpose for re-election is, quote, i am your retribution. the people against whom he's seeking retribution are some of the folks i've talked about, milley, his former chief of staff, john kelley, general kelley described him as the most

damaged person or human he'd ever known. bill barr recently described him as limited. he has accused jim comey and andrew mccabe, pete struck and others of treason. what does it mean if a president who runs on retribution -- and i just named a few of the people he'd like to retaliate against -- has lawyers that make that u.s. government policy? >> well, just to make this worse, i think it's important to take this reporting and put it side by side with the reporting that the former president if re-elected wants to get rid of civil service. so there will be no sort of career people to stand in his way. but the idea that people like jeff sessions and bill barr were not sort of malleable enough for donald trump is one that is -- i

find somewhat shocking. but i think if you put this in perspective in terms of history, lawyers being complicit with authoritarian regimes are very necessary. it is what gives the veneer of legitimacy to a host of horrific authoritarians that we can look to around the world, and i think that we would then look to here in the united states to make it appear that things are lawful when they're not. it also would make it impossible if -- if and it would be a huge if, donald trump were ever to be removed to hold him accountable criminally because he would be able to say i had lawyers that said this was all lawful. so i mean, i truly think that this combined with that other reporting is very much the end of the rule of law in america.

what people should be looking for with lawyers is not people who are just going to say yes, i reminded very much when i got to the fbi i remember the director, director mueller saying that he wanted to know if he was doing anything that i thought was improper, if he was getting close to the line. he wanted me to speak up, and that's what you expect from people at the department justice, in the administration, whether it's in the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch, that you want that. you don't want people unless you're an authoritarian who are just there to get a seal of approval on your basest instincts. >> it is not always the case, but it's often the case that the more extreme, and again david, not going to use farther to the right, but the more extreme lawyers are not the best people to use another trump quote. they also end up being wrong about the law. let me tell you about one of

them. this isthnew york times" reporting, quote, joseph e. schmitz is the top lawyer, a bush era pentagon ig argued that the supreme court o vice president mike pence should intervene to overturn trump's loss. cnn has reported that jim jordan sent one of the texts revealed by the j 6th committee, and it had something that the same individual, mr. schmitz h sent, quote, a spokesperson for jordan, an ohio republican, confirmed that he forwarded a text to meadows on january 5th sent to him by joseph schmitz, former dodig, including a draft presentation arguing that pence had the constitutional authority to object to the certification of election results from certain states. now i want to put mr. joseph e. schmitz sort of on a line next to john eastman who we know from the january 6th select committee privately acknowledged that his theory was both illegal, that it violated the electoral count act, and unconstitutional, that he would lose -- amended his

decision that they'd lose 7-2 and said they'd lose 9-0. he views the law in a different way from john eastman. to name names, that's one of them. >> yeah, this exposes the vulnerability to our democracy and to the republic. and it is related to this. there's a circular argument, i think you and i have had this conversation a bit, where we debate are we facing an existential moment with the return of donald trump? if we say we are, wee discounting the resiliency of america. the resiliency of who we are as a people to overcome the greatest challenges. if we suggest we are resilient and can take on everything, then we're discounting the existential moment. i think in that depth, in that vulnerability is where these really bad actors get to emerge and have incredible influence. and it's this -- andrew knows this very well. it's in the latency between an administrative action that is done under donald trump by fiat and the length of time it takes

for our systems and for the courts to actually extract accountability and say no, you can't do that. so is it a muslim ban? it an enemies list? is it some type of autocratic move by donald trump to steal an election that is made through the people he surrounds himself with? that fake legal actors, bad fake constitutional actors or unconstitutional actors that are able to actually penetrate the resiliency of us as a people, as a republic, before the systems can kick in and save us through accountability and courts. that's the vulnerability that donald trump is exposing, and he's willing to do so. again, that is the danger should he return that we face. we may not be resilient enough to overcome the existential challenge of the return of donald trump. >> right. and the fact that he failed to remain in power last time is not because he didn't want to badly enough, it's because he didn't have these people in the jobs.

and katie, i want to come back to, i think you were one of the first journalists to have the reporting about doj. i mean, i think without rosen and donahue at doj, milley at the pentagon, pence as vice president, maybe krebs, but i don't know if he rises to the level. he was about five lieutenants short of succeeding. what do you make of the correct diagnosis on trump's part that if those five people had been replaced by five people off this list, he might have pulled it off? >> i think it shows that his focus is on power and on maintaining -- obtaining and maintaining personal power. and being allowed to do what he'd like. so yes, he did correctly diagnose that for him the problem was that there were people in office, in his administrations, who didn't want him to completely overturn the constitutional and completely overturn the free and fair election. for him, that is a problem.

i think it says a lot about donald trump, who he is and why he wants to become president. and it really raises the stakes for the election. i would point out, though, that the lawyers who did help him, whether it was janet ellis, whether it was sidney -- rudy giuliani, you know, these are people who have now been charged with crimes. and we've seen three of them, sid no powell, jenna ellis, and ken chesebro, all plead guilty in. so while i understand that it's his wish and that it's the wish of his allies to populate the federal government with people who are going to either bend the law or ignore the law or perhaps even break it in order to allow donald trump to do what he wants, there are other court, state courts that are part of our accountability system. it will be interesting to see if he can attract those people if you have folks pleading guilty and evidence being used, n criminal trials, the outcome of which we do not know to see what happens to those folks. >> such an interesting point. david and katie, thank you for spending time with us. andrew sticks around.

when we come back, we'll dig into the federal trial against the ex-president over those classified documents he took with him to mar-a-lago. that happened this afternoon. special counsel jack smith's team and attorneys for trump squared off on issues that could determine if and whether that trial still starts in may. plus, a medical emergency at the highest levels of the military. a glaring spotlight on the dangerous game that one senator, tommy tuberville, is playing with u.s. national security. his months' long hold on top military nominees from being confirmed now has some very real world consequences. we'll tell you about it. later in the broadcast, as we've discussed o -- junior is on the stand in new york city. we'll get a live report from someone inside the courtroom as soon as it ends. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. after a quick break. ♪ ♪

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the government's agenda was to get those, protect those documents and get them out. i think it was perfectly appropriate to do that. it was the right thing to do. and i think the counts under the espionage act that he willfully retained those documents are solid counts. if even half of it is true, then he's toast. i mean, it's a pretty -- very detailed indictment. and it's very, very damning. >> it's very, very damning, especially the part under the espionage act. well, to that point, today a federal judge in florida heard arguments in this case. the classified documents case, against the twice-impeached, four times indicted ex-president

donald trump in which he faces 37 counts of mishandling classified material including national defense information. the judge there, judge cannon, heard arguments from attorneys for the ex-president who, of course, want to delay, delay, delay. want to see that trial pushed back until after the 2024 election. they heard arguments from special counsel jack smith's team, as well. right now the trial is slated to begin in may, around six months from right now. judge cannon concluded the hearing by saying she will enter an order asap. ahead of the hearing she issued an order related to classified evidence in the case that says that trump's co-defendants, walt nauta and carlos de oliveira, can see classified discovery. joining us, "new york times" washington correspondent mike schmidt, andrew weissmann also back with us. as we watch this case sort of come back into focus, andre wynne -- andrew weissmann, we've

talked about the federal election case in washington in front of judge chutkin who's gone back and forth over a gag order. we haven't heard as much on this case. but your former colleague and someone who's appeared on this show brandon bugrak called it bat leap crazy, this ruling about classified material. can you explain what's happening under the radar in this case to us? >> sure, some it's hard because it's classified material. a lot of the motion practice is under seal. precisely because the government under a statute called cipa, c-i-p-a, for classified information and procedure act, is allowed to make these kinds of sealed filings. but what's at issue is who gets access to it, whether the documents have to be seen by the defendant or whether they can be seen just by defense counsel. and then whether it's okay to

give summaries of the documents or whether you have to give the actual documents to either the defendant or defense council. and so there's a whole variety of issues here. i think that the decision today is a little unclear, but it seems to be a tempest in a teapot with the judge spilling a lot of ink over whether the government essentially proceeded under the wrong section than saying you know what, you can -- essentially you can come back and do this under a different section of the cipa statute and not this one. she has a number of snarky words which seemed surprising to me for a federal judge. it's -- words that you wouldn't really want to see a litigant in front of her use. so it seemed surprising. then most surprising i think is the tea leaf reading that she suggested and i think people are waiting for her to put the trial

off. and she said it was because of her concern about the judge chutkin d.c. case. that doesn't make a lot of sense because the government's estimation of when the case is going to end is pretty, you know, long before her case is scheduled. so i'm not really sure why that's an impediment. you know, obviously in the background is people are concerned about judge cannon's experience or the lack thereof, and based on her decisions early on in the investigation where she was reversed twice by the 11th circuit. a concern about potential bias on her part against the governme here. but we'll -- it remains to be seen because she hasn't really dug into the classified rulings on the merits. and she hasn't yet issued her decision on the trial date and how far if at all she'll move it. >> but she obviously, you know, in today's news cycle made the

choices you're describing to use, quote, snarky words. mike schmidt it brings us to your reporting her. quote, judge cannon, 42, has beenn the bench since november, 2020, when mr. trump gave her a lifetime aappointment. shortly after h lost re-election. she had n previously served as any f judge, and because cases are resolved with plea al deals, she has had only a limited opportunity toearn how to preside over a trial. a bloomberg law database lists 224 criminal cases that have beenssigned to her, and a "new cases identified four that went to trial in all the four cases added up to 14 trial days. so without any disrespect to ms. cannon, she's never done this before. >> correct. look, judges that are not on the bench, have been on the bench for a long time, don't have a massive amount of experience

because so many cases are pled out in the federal system. so in that sense she's not too different than any other fairly junior judge on the bench. you know, one thing that we haven't talked about and sort of pointed out in this is that, you know, she was the original judge that dealt with the -- trump's contesting of the search warrant back over a year ago. and she made these very favorable rulings to trump that she was reversed on by the courts above her, and i believe by fairly conservative judges that were among some of those people that reversed her. so that was the whole issue. and then the government happened to draw her. the thing that i'm wondering about in terms of this trial date is what happens if the trial date is, say, moved a couple of months forward. say it's moved into august or september. like what does that mean for the election? i wanted to ask andrew

weissmann, because i had gone back and looked at the doj memos about what you can do around an election. remember this is the question can you take overt law enforcement action before an election, and there's a lot of discussion that the departments had about that. it goes back -- questions about that around hillary clinton's emails. but my question is is that how would the justice department look at the fact that someone like a presidential candidate would be going to trial so close to an election? it's probably something that they -- they haven't contemplated, but how do you think the department will view that, and how do you think the judge will view that? >> well, this is a great question because you can be sure there's no precedent for it. why some because we've never had a situation where you have somebody running for office let alone a former president who is under indictment that close to the election. the policy that you're referring to, which is a doj policy which

is not taking sort of overt action in a criminal matter within 60 or 90 days of an election, is precisely so that you are giving the candidate an opportunity to essentially respond. like you don't just bring a charge but they can't actually have their day in court before the election. we're not really in that situation. here he has been charged, and what we would be doing is depriving the public and the electorate the opportunity to see the evidence for themselves and to make a judgment based on that. so i think that the narrow issue is whether it interferes with a candidate's ability to campaign and to actually be part of the process. i think that's going to be a difficult one for the judge if she's assessing that fairli. i think it will be a difficult

one for special counsel jack smith. remember, this is the case brought by him. in the first instance unless he does something outlandish, it will be his call. it will not be merrick garland's call as to how that proceeds. you know, all of that may become hypothetical if she doesn't move the trial or she only moves it a little bit. i would hope that one thing she would do is call judge chutkin and say can you give me a sense of what you think the timing is so that -- you know, she makes an informed decision. and the way that judge chutkin said that she had spoken to the new york state court judge when she, judge chutkin, was deciding when to schedule her trial date. >> you know, mike, you raise an interesting point. i've been admonished by judge esther sallis here that it's not who appoints the judge but her rulings. it was a master who ended up

with -- the decisions were unwieldly, and she was rebuked by incredibly conservative judges on the circuit. what is trump's calculation about how much she will do for him? >> well, out of all of the judges and prosecutors and folks that have -- are involved in all the countless legal issues he's in, she seems to be the most favorable to him by far. you know, the judges in new york don't have a lot of patience for trump's behavior and have held him accountable for that. the judge in washington seems to be moving pretty quickly and doesn't seem to be buying a lot of the things that trump's lawyers are putting forward. but this lawyer, even as andrew was saying about the language she used today, seems to have a different posture toward the government in terms of the

skepticism, and in terms of trump, in terms of the favorability. and some people that i had talked to that had litigated in front of her or were part of the bar down there said that one of the issues that she had was that she was just not very experienced and was like a bit sensitive about -- insecure about that lack of experience. and would sometimes get, you know, a little contentious around issues where that inexperience was exposed. and this case is like one of the most complicated cases that you could have. so i'm not sure how much of it is -- is the experience, is the favorability to trump or whatever. but that's trump's best judge that he would have, his best chance. >> we checked, i couldn't -- may be wrong, i don't have truth social on my phone. but we couldn't find any attacks of her.

and he obviously attacks the judges in all the other cases as often as the rest of us breathe. so that's a good point. mike, andrew, thank you so much for helping us get on the record for this story. up next, the blockade by right-wing senator tommy tuberville on military promotions is running head first into some very real-world national security consequences. we'll tell you about that and what the senate is doing about it after a quick break. stay with us. uick break stay with us (sean) i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro! (jason) sean! do you mean this one - the one with titanium? it's so light. don't touch it. maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan -- switch to verizon and get iphone 15 pro on them. (sean) what!? (jason) yup, and on an amazing network (sean) and i don't have to ruin anymore birthday parties! (jason) yeah, that ship has sailed... let's go get you the iphone. here we go, come on hon. (vo) get iphone15 pro, apple tv 4k and 6 months of apple one. all three on us. only on verizon.

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it has always seemed a matter of time, not if but when, tommy tuberville's blockade on military promotions would have a real-world effect on u.s. national security. that moment is upon us. it's right now. after the commandant of the marine corps suffered a medical emergency on sunday, serious enough to warrant a stay at the hospital, senate armed services chair jack reed told "politico" this, quote, one of the reasons i think that contributed to his condition was he was doing two jobs at once. i've read where he was working from 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. as a result, if he had as is normal an assistant, he could switch off. as soon as today majority leader chuck schumer's electioned senate could confirm the marine corps's second ranking officer along with president joe biden's picks to lead the air force and navy. joining me, founder of iraq and

afghanistan veterans of america and the host of "the independent americans" podcast, paul wycof is back. and out of the capitol, friend and colleague nbc news correspondent ali vitali. first on this tragic consequence of what i know is politics as usual behind you, that is schumer going to do -- what is schumer going to do? is he going to hold them until they have these individual confirmed? >> reporter: at least for these three, yes. we expect to see that vote happen potentially tomorrow, more likely sometime thursday. but there is a larger conversation happening because these three nominees, yes, they plug the leak in the dam so to speak in terms of the present crisis that's immediately in front of the marine corps right now, but it's nothing to say of the hundreds of military promotions still being held up

and have been held up since this blockade earlier in the year. this has been going on now for months. the open question, though, is whether or not there are enough republicans who can come together with democrats to change the rules, whether extremely specifically just so they can get through this period of time and this batch of nominees, or if there's a larger conversation happening to get toushville to get rid of the hold he's put on this. he's made clear he's not going lift these holds until he sees the pentagon change its policy on supporting abortion access for those who don't decide why they're stationed but might end up in a state where abortions are heavily restricted and they would have to travel outside the state. this covers the travel and logistics costs. at the same time with that policy not shifting, a lot of us are wondering is there an off-ramp for senator tuberville because at each point, even his own leadership, even senator mitch mcconnell who reiterated this yesterday, he did not think that this blockade was a good

idea. he has been open saying that to reporters and certainly within his own republican ranks. the question is do they do some rule change that's targeted and specific that allows them to go through all of these nominees that are backed up en masse because the problem is, and you and i have talked about this before -- you can't just go through and say, all right, let's sits in a room for an hour and vote yay, nay, yay, nay, that's not how this works. this would take weeks, weeks that the senate doesn't have. >> i would argue that they could make the time. maybe i've seen dave too many times. let me put up general smith's own words about the consequences of doing two jobs at once. >> the workload remains the same. there's still the two full-time jobs filled by one person. so that hasn't changed. i moved houses, but i am still doing both of those jobs and using my staff as best i can to

fill in where the assistant command the da would be full time because -- commandante walk full time because i don't be in both places at once. >> two vitally important positions at once. >> all the chickens are coming home to roost. the things we've been talking about for months together are coming to fruition in a worst case scenario where we've got troops in conflict. the commandant of the marine corps has been run into the ground. that's what's happening. >> literally. >> literally. imagine if you had to host two shows every day and your family had to endure, that's what these folks have to -->> the difference is -- no one lives or dies if i have to hold two -- >> 100%. the workload and the stress and impact your family. i ask everybody watching to imagine doing two jobs with the highest stakes possible at a time when marines are also at embassies around the globe. when we had 37 attacks and counting on u.s. troops in syria and in iraq. and we've got 300 more head to the middle east now.

this is happening at a time when putin is grateful, hamas loves this. tuberville is doing the work of our enemies, he's undermining our national security. and he's not backing down. so an off-ramp is unlikely. what the democrats and republicans, i hope, can do is figure out a way to run him over. he's a political extremist. kind of like a political suicide bomber. you can't negotiate with a terrorist. he's not going to back down. the question is what do the democrats and i hope the republicans, too, do to steamroll him because he's not going to move. >> ali is there any opportunity for mitch mcconnell to say, hey, in the wake of a terrorist attack in israel let's table your little personal mission for a minute? >> reporter: there is always that opportunity. there's always an opportunity for senators to take a stand on anything, nicole. i just think that the way that mcconnell has been able to hold onto power within his caucus for so long is, a, knowing where everyone stands, and b, being able to toe the line without upsetting any of his members too much. i think what tuberville has been

able to do on this is he has been able to hold the line as the one senator who can be at the center of it, but there are certainly a handful of other senators around him who support what he is doing, but more than that, don't want to be on the side of voting against what he is doing. and i think that that's a really important point here because many republican senators have been outspoken, mcconnell included, about the fact that they don't think this is a good idea, that this is not the most effective way to register a complaint or try to change the pentagon's policy. but they also don't want to be put in a politically sticky position where they end up siding with democrats and basically saying that they are tacitly okay with what the pentagon is doing. abortion politics are very much wrapped up in this conversation even though they seem like they are disparate things, national security and reproductive rights access. all of these things are together swirling in the same pot here, and it's part of what makes this such an intractable and sticky

and thorny issue. but yes, mcconnell has been clear he doesn't like this, he doesn't think it's a good idea. that doesn't mean that tuberville's going to change his mind and clearly hasn't. >> i mean, the politics is interesting. i want to press both of you on this -- on abortion, he's in the super minority, super minority agree with him. and on jeopardizing and playing politics with combat readiness which is where this is now, i don't even know if there's 10% of the public that supports that. we'll press on that open door that ali opened for us in a second. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. [car doo r slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade.

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we're back with paul and ali. ali went to the politics of this. i would argue, nationally, it's hideous for republicans to be associated with someone against active duty military having the same access to health care as if they were stationed abroad. >> this should be a political opportunity for the democrats to tee off on this guy. you are right, he is in an extreme minority. it's the same 11 that are always doing this. biden should make an example. do a countdown. put them on a billboard. tuberville is in a time of war undermining our military and hurting leadership that's so obvious that it's a winner. i'm an independent. this is exactly the kind of issue that forces people to

leave the republican party, to become independent, to go to the other side. it's a winning issue for the democrats. it's terrible it's happening. i'm surprised they haven't ratcheted it up. >> that's the abortion politics. military politics are clearer. nobody is for damaging u.s. combat readiness, except tommy tuberville. >> who hasn't served. he thinks football fields are like battlefields. we have seen senator kelly ramp it up, senator warren, now jack reed. that's the right political strategy. you have to find a way to stop him. they can't just whine on cable television. they have to neutralize this guy. this is bad for morale. we look ridiculous. by the time you finish this show, more american troops could be under fire, including marines, who don't have a commandante because of this guy. >> what do they want? >> you have people like lloyd

austin who have been outspoke been the fact that they think that this military hold continues to endanger national security. no one has been secret about this within the biden administration or here on capitol hill. of course, these conversations are always happening. i will say, just in the last few minutes as you were talking at the table, our capitol hill team was doing some reporting on the senate side of the building, opposite where i am. tonight, we might see a -- support from within republican ranks to lift a number of these holds and hold votes on them. it could be a few dozen of the nominations. it could be more. i'm not sure of the exact number. at least one republican senator confirming to our team on the record here that at some point in the next few hours, they will go to the senate floor, a group of republicans, and effectively say they are standing with democrats to help end this blockade on a certain number of nominations or promotions that

have been held up by senator tuberville. it's very notable, republicans tend to be very reluctant to rules changes. it's a place that functions really here in the senate on capital p precedent. there's a lot of reluctance in changing the rules here. at the same time, there is a fever pitch of frustration coming. i think it's so right to put it as your guest did earlier that the chickens are coming home to roost now, because these are the concerns that have been warned about from a national security and military readiness perspective since february when these holds were first announced by the alabama senator. the fact there's added urgency, not just on the front of health issues within the head of the marine corps but with the situation in israel, all of this lends to the urgency we see now. i think it's important to note that republicans, at least a small group of them tonight, may be willing to say, all right, we have had enough, we said we're unhappy with this, but now we're going to do something. >> i think the ultimate cover for them isn't standing with

democrats, but standing with the military, which i'm old enough to remember when that was all the cover you needed. thank you both so much for helping us get on the record with this important story. we will stay on it. when we come back, donald trump junior left the courthouse for today. he will be back tomorrow. we will bring you that news straight ahead. don't go anywhere. don't go anyw. t treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry. hmm. it must be delicious. delectables lickable treat.

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earned your b.s. in economics from wharton.

do you have familiarity with an acronym gaap? >> generally accepted accounting principles, yes. >> how did you become with that? >> probably accounting 101 at wharton. >> what do they teach you about generally accepted accounting principles in wharton? >> i'm not an accountant, but that they are generally accepted. >> maybe something thought that was funny. i didn't get it. hi, again. it's 5:00 in new york. the $250 million civil fraud trial against the former president and his business took an even more personal turn today. as we mentioned, that guy, that was donald trump junior, the ex-president's oldest son, took the stand this afternoon answering questions about his responsibilities as trump org executive vice president. he is a defendant in the case. he was the first of the trump family members expected to take the stand over the next week.

in the middle of the night, the ex-president posted on his social media platform a message to the judge, to leave his kids alone. they are not just innocent bystanders or kids. they are current or former high level employees of the trump organization who according to new york attorney general letitia james' lawsuit were enmeshed in the fraud scheme. the three children were intimately involved in the operation of the trump organizaon business. they were aware of the true financial performance of the company. whether through donald trump junior's work on leasing, ivanka on doral, trump chicago or eric trump's work on the golf course. in their roles as executive ve presidents, each of the three trump children have familiarity with, responsibility for, and made use of the statements of

financial condition in commercial transactions. conclusion that contradicts donald junior's deposition from last year. here is what comes next. donald trump junior denies knowledge of accounting principles that would be required for statements of financial condition. >> that's pretty much what i remember from accounting 101. >> have you told me everything you know about caap? >> basically. i'm sure i could come up with some creative stuff to kill time. i would beneath of us a favor in terms of educating ourselves. >> thank you. fair to say you have never been employed in a position that required you to apply gaap to your work? >> no, not that i'm aware of. >> wow. a little reminder as we go

through don junior's testimony today. the judge ruled fraud happened. what's on trial now is how much the trumps owe for their fraudulent behavior. donald trump junior taking the stand in the new york civil fraud trial is where we begin with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. sue craig is back with us. senior editor for bloomberg opinion, tim o'brien is here. our friend, former top official at doj, andrew weissmann is back with us. andrew weissmann, donald trump junior as a witness, helpful, hurtful, neither? >> it remains to be seen, you know, how he comes off on the stand. here is why i think the new york attorney general is calling him. one, he is a defendant.

it is useful for them to present his testimony and to confront him with documents and have the judge make a credibility call. it also protects them on appeal if the judge finds that any of the so-called children or donald trump himself are not credible, that's a very hard thing for a court of appeals to reverse. because they won't see the witness. they haven't had a chance to experience it. so it's a smart move for the attorney general to present them as witnesses and to cross examine them with these documents. it also though -- these are -- it's just wrong for someone to say, these are just children that the attorney general is just calling for -- just to harass the father. these were people who had very senior positions in a family-run

business. so they are entitled to be grilled about what they knew. and as you said, because he has found on the first cause of action that there's fraud, he is entitled to hear from them and the ag is entitled to cross examine them on what they knew about various aspects of the fraud that the court has found. >> sue, this is the schedule for the week. don junior today. that m carry over, i think, to tomorrow. eric trump tomorrow. donald trump on monday. ivanka trump next wednesday. let's start with today. what did donald trump junior say? >> well, he is going to carry over into tomorrow. we're still on his direct. he started -- it's interesting. i think it's important to set the table for the three of them. i'm not sure if the timing of them is significant because of what i'm about to say. but donald junior hasn't been that much of a presence in the

trial. you really do see the fingerprints more of eric trump and ivanka in various deals. very few people have brought up donald trump junior. it isn't to say he isn't involved. how it started out today was they went through, as they always do, biographical information. then they established him -- this is what becomes important -- as the trustee of the trust that was set up when donald trump went into office. he was one of the trustees. as a result of being one of the trustees, he had a lot of oversight including on banking relationships and on these statements of financial conditions that we have heard so much about that were inflate and submitted to the banks to get better rates, with the insurance companies. he has said -- he maintained that he did not have a role in preparing the statements of financial condition. today he really -- i think we were sort of getting to the climate right at the end. it's going to pick up tomorrow, because a lot of it -- wouldn't

say boring, but no excitement. no perry ma mason moments. they were leading up to this moment where he was trying to thread this needle where he wasn't involved in the preparing of the statement but he may have been in meetings where valuations were discussed, but he didn't know it was going to go to the statement of financial conditions. i have to say throughout the two hours or so he was up, he was actually a good witness in terms of he stayed calm through the questioning. he made some jokes. he got pretty animated at the last point. you could see that is where the attorney general is trying -- it could carry over tomorrow to turn the screw on him in what was his role in the preparation of the financial statements, even if he -- he is saying he didn't know that maybe that information was going into a financial statement. she's trying to establish he was in some way involved because he is a defendant. >> tim, what is don junior's role in the company?

>> he does what his father tells him to do. as does eric and as does ivanka. they are all essentially hostages. no major decisions were made in the trump organization without donald trump's input and none of the children would bark unless they had donald trump's input. the other thing is this issue of whether or not don junior was familiar with gaap is precisely the problem. none of the trump financial statements comported with gaap, because they were making things up every step of the way. the statement of financial conditions they gave to the bank said very prominently inside the statement of financial condition, none of this comports with gaap. the reason it said that is because the accountant wouldn't sign off on it. they were not going to put their names on the line to a document that they believed was being used to mislead people.

secondly, don junior has never been a particularly bright bulb. he has trouble doing basic multiplying. they were all sitting there and howard stern asked them to multiply 16 times 7. none could do it. the only one who sort of took joy in being embarrassed in that interview was don junior. he authentically doesn't care. as sue was getting at, i think he is a good witness because he just doesn't care. he is willing to make light of the question. but at the end of the day, he is a witness against his father in this matter. he is offering testimony about how they conducted their business. whether or not he knows the

immediate foundation of how gaap is calculated is actually a problem, because he was more involved, i think, than he said thus far on the stand in terms of determining the valuations they presented to the bank. he was intimately involved in the separation agreement with weisselberg. he was promised $2 million in compensation if he didn't testify against the family. it suggests they wanted to make sure he wasn't a problem for them. don is involved in the things the prosecution needs him to be involved with, actually. i don't think his testimony today saves him from anything particularly. >> tim, let me read you some reporting about something we have all talked about a great deal. that's what this case is about. trump's essence. i don't know i've seen enough to weigh in with any authority on his essence.

in my opinn, donald trump was more upset when thepga tour took the event away from bedminster than when he was impeached, because it struck at the brand and the name. that was longtime trumpdvisor david urban referring to trump's golf club. that is what he cares about, the empire that i have built. this is all me. this is the size of my stuff. this is the largess i have created. the kids -- the attorney general believes the kids can help build a case against him. >> you put your finger on it right there when you said is that donald trump is mr. it. one of the tragic and weirdly fascinating aspects of his march through the political and business landscape in the country is that he essentially puts himself on the couch in

front of everyone. voters and others observing him become his therapist. i also think it's completely true that he cares about money and how he is perceived as a brand more than anything else. i think he cares about it more than relationships. he cares about it more than his political future. it's how he defines himself. anything that comes into the public record or the public realm that eats away at the clothing he put around this idea of himself as self-made, as a entrepreneurial success story, and one of the richest people on the planet, it cuts him to his core. it puts him in a courtroom into a bad place because he begins to react emotionally to all of it. he goes on the attack, as you have seen from some of the statements he put on social media attacking members of the proceeding in the courtroom.

>> sue, before he was civilly liable for fraud, you had pulled the clothing off of it in your reporting, in your pulitzer prize body of reporting. he knew that you knew and thus the world knew that it was all a scam. why do you think the trial is so triggering? >> i think there's finally we are seeing this as a hard consequence of it. there's one thing for some newspapers to write about it for people to call it out, but to actually now to be held accountable -- this is accountable in a way he has already been found liable. now there's a receiver over his business. the attorney general is looking for $250 million in penalties. that's not tax deductible. that's a real check he may one day have to write with assets that may have to be sold. when you think today we're seeing the first of his children coming in, we are talking about their potential inheritance.

it's incredibly triggering for them. when i think about donald trump and his life, it's a story really of his money. it's all coming into a courtroom today. there's a judge presiding over it that he doesn't have control of. i think it's one thing. we have written in great detail about not just the emperor has no clothes here, but also just the games that he has played for years with appraisals and other things. really to see it play out here is something. there's going to be a real life check that's probably going to have to be written at some point down the line. he will probably stretch that out through the appeals court. one day he will be writing a check for this potentially. >> as you are talking, i can hear the primal scream as he is forced to hold the pen and sign it. >> right. >> andrew, i want to come back to something that was developed on the evidence side and ask you to explain to us. we learned through your social media and we went and looked at

it, the new york attorney general's counsel had a document that shows he restored himself as a trustee. this could be hugely important to jack smith. it would show trump knew, as of january 15, 2021, that he had not won the election and was returning to his private life and business. explain. >> sure. people may recall that when donald trump became president, there was a hullabaloo about how he would deal with all of the business ties that he has. he said, don't worry, i will put this in a trust. so trust documents were created. you heard today about how don junior and other children and weisselberg was in charge of the

trust. on paper, that's what was happening during the trump presidency. what we learned today was that a document that the new york attorney general showed to don junior had the former president reasserting himself into the private business on january 15, 2021. meaning, after the november election at a time when the former president has to this day said, i really won, i am the person, there's fraud in the election, stop the steal. even before the inauguration of joe biden, within that week, he is obviously anticipating going back into the private sector. and he is reasserting himself into that trust. to me, that is very akin to the evidence that jack smith cites where there's donald trump saying to i think it's mark

mel -- milley, leave this to the next guy. this is him thinking about the future. i will be areasserting myself. it's very important to jack smith because one of the allegations with support is that the former president actually knew he lost. this would be a good document to support that theory. >> as you were talking, i wrote down milley. he left foreign policy to the next guy. meadows, the testimony that's been reported out by abc that he knew he lost and he knew the things he was saying were lies.

to the degree that some of the news reporting -- i believe in "the new york times" about the line of questioning put before jared kushner was about maybe he thinks he won. by the 15th of january, he knew he had not. to the degree that a current defense rests upon lies and the things he says from the campaign trail, it would put to rest the time line, that as of january 15, 2021 he knew he lost and was skulking back to the trump work. >> it will be interesting to know whether the new york attorney general had put that into the record here precisely for that reason. obviously, it's relevant to don junior and to who was actually controlling things and what role people were having at a certain point in time. it obviously, has that greater significance to those two

pending criminal cases. it's something that, for all we know it's something that -- it's new to us and old to them. it certainly is a document that we are learning of for first time that seems highly relevant to all of those proceedings. >> sue, it also speaks to sort of the -- what makes this so riveting. i mean riveting like a rubberneck riveting. not an elegant riveting. anything can happen. any evidence can be developed in a suit this involved with this many people this close to donald trump. with that in mind, what do you expect the rest of this week? >> i want to say first of all about the document -- seeing that a week after he signs this document revoking the trust, it's so significant because he didn't have to do it. he could have left the trust

continue to go for another six months, another year, forever. but he did it right away. it goes to both i think his state of mind but also it speaks to how important his money is to him that he did that immediately. i think we're going to see tomorrow don junior will probably take up, i would imagine, the morning. i think we see eric trump will be significant. he has been, of the three children -- there's four children, but of the three involved in the business, the one really running it day to day. he has been a presence in the court, even when he has not been here. his name is invoked a lot. i think we're going to see a lot of -- a lot more robust testimony about what his involvement was, what he knew about the statements, the financial condition. did he put his thumb on the scale? ivanka next week i think will speak to a few transactions, including her involvement in the hotel in washington, the old post office and the financing that was provided there and then

to the golf course in florida that's of interest to the attorney general. then donald trump will appear to testify on monday. i would imagine that will be fairly combative given what we have seen. >> one can surmise based on what he had to say and utter and huff around. i think that's a fair guess. sue, tim, andrew, thank you all so much for starting us off this hour on this. when we come back, the disgraced ex-president may be barred from the ballot in two key states over his role in trying to overturn an election he clearly lost. he is suing the secretary of state in a third state, the state of michigan. a pre-emptive strike aimed at making sure he can stay on the ballot there. michigan's secretary of state will be our guest after a short break. ahead, americans trapped in the gaza strip are able to make their way out today along with other foreign nationals and individuals who have been critically injured.

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you don't have to go back to somebody who has proven himself to be untrustworthy be being disloyal to the constitution and trying to overthrow the constitutional order. is there anybody who believes if donald trump somehow got his way back into office he would ever leave? if you believe that, you are too innocent to be let out of the house by yourself. >> he makes it all sound so logical and simple. yet, here we are. that was congressman jamie raskin arguing the disgraced ex-president is constitutionally disqualified from being on the ballot after inciting an insurrection. the idea that donald trump's name could be removed from the ballot in 2024 is in focus this week with a trial underway in colorado and a separate trial set to start tomorrow in minnesota. the ex-president's legal team say they lack the authority to

assess his qualifications to be on the ballot. thank you for being here. i have to say, you are on the record in a public way after the judge and a professor sort of put this idea out there for the non-constitutional lawyers, non-judges to chew on, that you would follow the law and the courts. has any of that changechanged? >> no. i have been clear that this is an important issue to resolve. it has been injected into the public lexicon through constitutional legal scholars. we have to be very careful about the procedures that we put in place and the guardrails that any precedent sets, because we can't anticipate this will be the last time arguments like this might be made in regards to candidate qualifications. with that in mind, with the

weig weighy weigthy determination is on the courts. >> i'm struck by how many systems are -- i wouldn't say stained. because you are clearly dealing with this in a way that doesn't suggest strain. tested by one political party to settle for somebody else who maybe didn't invite people to washington, rile them up with rhetoric and then say i love you after the capitol was stormed and his own vice president had to run for his life. i do want to read from your op-ed in the "washington post" about this. d in the "washington" about this

then what? >> yeah, all of that is very real and why we have to also presume that any outcome of this primary determination -- these cases are about, should the former president be on the primary ballot? based on the facts of the cases, we may see a re-litigation of this if he is nominate and perhaps if he is successful and gets elected in the fall, then we may see another emergence of this issue. it's far from final. i know that in this moment, secretaries of state have a responsibilitylaw. if the courts determine that he is ineligible, i'm sure secretaries of state will follow suit. in the absence of that, he will

certainly be on the ballot in michigan and i imagine in every other state in the country. that doesn't necessarily mean even at that juncture the decision will be final in the courts. that's why alongside of this, while the other criminal proceedings play out and various other courts, we have to maintain the focus on the voters who can take all of this into consideration if and whether they do go to the ballot box, either in a primary or general, and weigh these factors as they select the person who will be the next president of the united states. >> what is his lawsuit against you about in your analysis? >> well, the claim -- again, as a defendant in the suit, i don' details. it's a question of whether the former president is eligible to be on the ballot and asking the court to make that determination. i have been clear. michigan law, if any individual is generally advocated to be a

presidential candidate in the public forum in the news, then i, under michigan law, am obligated to ensure they are on the primary ballot in our state. in that regard, the president would qualify. i said that unless a court rules otherwise, he will be on the primary ballot in february. the suit seems to not be perhaps fully apprised of those facts. i'm sure the court will be the proper forum to apprise all parties of the facts. we will see how this plays out. the legal determinations of the 14th amendment will be determined by other suits that are at play in our state as well. we will see how those play out. >> i think we were saying that until and unless a court in michigan says he is not eligible, you plan to put him on the primary ballot? >> yeah. i want to make an important point here as well on the primary. there are primary elections and caucuses. in michigan, the republican

party has decided to allocate their delegates in two ways, partially through the primarily, likely on february 27th, but also through a caucus. in that caucus, the state republican party has full control over what candidate -- nobody what i do has any role in that. even if he weren't hypothetically on the ballot in the primary, he would be likely on the caucus ballot. you will see that in many other states. every state has its own determination. ultimately, clarity on a candidate's eligibility to be president from the u.s. supreme court will be the determining factor at the end of the day. we are far from that determination at this stage in the game. even with the primary playing out, we may see this emerge again if the former president receives his party's nomination this summer. >> never a dull moment. thank you very much for joining us. when we come back, hundreds of foreign nationals, including americans, are beginning to be able to trickle out and leave

gaza. a live report from the israel/gaza border next after a short break. stay with us. israel/gaza border short break. stay with us ♪ ♪ we're building a better postal service. for more on-time deliveries. and easier, affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service. delivering for america. still living with odors? get back in there and freshen instantly with febreze air mist. febreze's fine mist floats longer in the air to fight even your toughest odors. so long stinky smells and hello amazing freshness. febreze air mist.

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today, thanks to concerted american leadership, we are in a situation where safe passage for wounded palestinians and foreign nationals to exit gaza has started.

>> that was joe biden in the last hour addressing the first of approximately 400 american citizens who have been trapped in the gaza strip making their way through the rafah crossing. there are thousands of foreign passport holders who are trapped in gaza. around 500, including five americans passed through the crossing into egypt today. in addition, 76 wounded palestinians were permitted to enter egypt for medical treatment. the agreement to allow them to cross came together late tuesday in talks among israel, egypt, hamas and the united states. they were mediated by qatar. while this is an important humanitarian step forward, it comes amid intensifying air strikes in gaza. the health ministry said wednesday that israel bombed the territory's largest refugee camp for the second time in two days. israel said they weregeti a hamas control . skyrocketed with jordan, a key u.s. ally, recallingts

ambassador froml in protest of the, quot humanitarian catastrophe in gaza, and warning israel's ambassador to remain out of jordan. in a video statement released by the israeli government's press office, prime minister benjamin netanyahu promised to, quote, continue until the mission is complete. joining our coverage, my colleague, ellison barber at the israel/gaza border for us. a little spot of good news that some people were able to get out. tell us more of what you have seen today. >> reporter: the fact that the rafah border crossing is open to gazans who have been injured to get treatment in hospitals on egyptian territory and also to foreign nationals and those with dual passports, it's a big deal. there were a number of different times since this war began where foreign nationals were told to head to the border to take all of their things, get as close as they can and wait. at least twice they were told that the border crossing would

be opened so they could leave. then it didn't happen. this was a late notice. we started to hear about this late yesterday afternoon that it was going to open to people who were injured, then the possibility -- it was a little after 4:00 a.m. local time, the possibility the border crossing would open at 7:00 a.m. local time for people with other passports to cross through. we didn't know if that would happen or not. it did. it's a huge relief for the people who were able to leave based on what people close to the talks and negotiations have told nbc news. the plan is to allow up to 500 foreign nationals and people with dual citizenship to leave presumably every day until people who have left have left. we will see if that maintains throughout the day. we know we are expecting it to be open to foreign nationals tomorrow. that being said, that's a small pocket of the civilian population inside of gaza. we are talking about over 2.2 million people who do not have

an option to leave, even if they wanted to. as we talk about aid coming in and developments in terms of letting foreign nationals out, all of those activities along the rafah border crossing are very small steps forward to address the humanitarian crisis happening inside of gaza. a couple of weeks ago when it was first announced the rafah border crossing would be opening up to allow humanitarian aid into gaza, i spoke to a man who is from gaza city. i asked him what he thought about that aid. in his words, he said, frankly, i don't give a damn about the aid. he said, what good is any of this if our homes are still being bombed, if i feel like there's nowhere safe for my family. he said, i want this, the bombardments, to stop. he was frustrated that there were so many international leaders coming to the area and focusing on talking about what he considered to be temporary band-aids at best to the problem at large. he said he wanted discussions to be centered on a cease-fire, to

be about what he considered to be the root cause of all of these issues right now. he felt like these minimal steps of maybe helping foreign nationals, of maybe getting pockets of aid in and that it was a way in his view for the rest of the world to not really dive deeper and deal with the heart of the problem. in his view, he looked at that and said, send trucks, food, but what good is water if my kids are dying because we are being bombarded in every pocket of gaza? >> israelis maintaining -- i played -- mentioned the sound from the prime minister, that they will continue with their response to the terrorist attack of october 7th until the mission is complete. anything else on the israeli side? >> reporter: yeah. they have consistently said that they are proceeding with their operations, their ground operations since friday. a spokesperson with israel's defense forces said they are continuing to expand their ground operation.

it's been oddly quiet for the last couple of hours compared to what we have heard in this area, especially since friday. in the overnight hours and recent days, we have seen from even this far -- from not being physically inside of gaza, a noticeable escalation of bombardments on the pockets of northwest gaza. israel says they have killed dozens of commanders, top officials within hamas' military wing. we have also seen a massive impact on civilians. >> ellison barber, thank you, for joining us. stay safe. when we come back, the frightening and dangerous rise in threats and violence aimed at jewish students, muslim and arab communities and students on college campuses. we will hear from one student leader who wants his university leadership to do more to keep people there safe. that's next. n my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps

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prosecutors said the student allegedly threatened to, quote, stab or the throat of jewish men and rape or throw off a cliff jewish women he encounters on campus. tragically, these threats are not isolated. right? students across the country are reporting being the targets of i islamaphobic and anti-semitic threats every day. one staffer noting, i have only ever seen that twice in my career, right after9/11 and after the announcement by trump his plan to ban muslims from the country. joining us, columbia university student yani kurtz who we heard speak out about b bigotry he is

seeing. we played your sound because it stood out to us. all the rancor and hate, as a beacon for doing something for everyone. this idea that until everyone is safe, no one is safe. tell me what's going on. >> yeah. i have seen a lot of students who feel like they have been left behind by the university. unfortunately, the reaction is to really bifurcate into an us versus them mentality. to me, the problem of taking a geopolitical issue and using that to fuel hate and violence on campus is a general one. as much as it's a particular one. when i spoke about the things that i have heard from my peers who are jewish, i included incidents where i heard about

islamic incidents. to me it's a cultural issue that needs to be addressed. >> how? >> if it was up to me, which i'm not an educator, i'm a student, but i would love if the university -- columbia is famous for having a core curriculum. students came together and talked about their identities, their lives, aspirations and gave students an opportunity to humanize each other. when you know someone on a personal level, you are far less likely to react to the external trigger of international conflict by hating someone. con >> what's going on on campus? >> campus is very tense right now. it's very unpleasant. there's sort of a feeling, and there has been for the last three weeks, that something might happen. and i think students have seen

what's happened at cornell, what's happened over places, and there's a fear that things could escalate to that point. thankfully it hasn't at columbia so far to that extent, but it's been very tense, and again, there have been incidents that we feel if columbia university's administration just doesn't take real action, there's a fear it could escalate. >> when you say something could happen, what do you mean? >> i don't know. i never like to imagine. i never would have imagined that could happen at cornell, cooper union, tulane. i've always been one to say i feel safe on campus as a proud jew, and to a certain extent i still do, but there are many students who don't, and that's a problem. >> i live not far from your campus, and i see the signs of the innocent babies and children

that are being he would hostage shredded and torn down in our neighborhood. where do you think that comes from? >> as i said, i think it comes from people who don't know others who are different from them on a personal level. you know, hate comes from a really dark place, but it can be countered with light, with getting to know someone who's different from you. and maybe vehemently disagrees with you. but you just can't react with violence. >> i imagine you studied the holocaust, right, and some of why that's taught, i think, is to elicit a reaction from young people, how did this happen? and make sure it never happens again. did you think you would be doing press conferences and talking on tv about it?

>> i didn't think i would. i'm not one for fear mongering, not one for hyperbole. in the past i have had family members ask me, columbia has a reputation for being anti-semitic. is that true? and time and again i say no. i never thought i'd be here. >> do you see anyone saying anti-semitic things you knew before october 7th and are surprised by? >> that i knew personally? >> mm-hmm. >> i haven't seen people i know personally do it, and i think that's, to a certain extent, my point, right? you can make incredibly powerful political claims without being anti-semitic, and people who i know and have an opportunity to know agree with that. sometimes i agree and disagree with them, but i think when you know someone who is affected or

sympathizes with a group of people you're far less likely to dip into hate, to dip into anti-semitism. >> what does it feel like to have faculty aligned or justify hamas? >> that's really scary. it's upsetting for sure. i do believe in free speech. i do believe that the ultimate decisions about faculty tenure should be made by the university. so i can't say to specific faculty. but i think it's important that we continue to foster real academic debate. but at the same time, seeing a justification of the horrific events of october 7th in any way is deeply upsetting for many, many students. >> have you heard from anyone who's thinking about going home or leaving campus? you're of the generation deeply affected by covid. are people thinking about

leaving? >> i know people who have left, whether they've received threats to their physical safety or to get away from the tense environment. i haven't done that. i feel like i want to be on campus. i want to be there for students. but it's something people are doing. >> did you know yesterday the fbi director christopher wray talked about an extraordinary uptick and said jewish americans make up 2.4% of the population, but make up 64% of the number of victims of hate crimes. do those numbers feel -- to you on campus? >> yeah i think there's an undercurrent of anti-semitism for sure. i think there's a thought that jews are this powerful force.

it does boil to the surface. >> i'm going to sound like an old lady saying this, but what can -- what do you need? what can people do to make kid on campus feel safe? >> one thing i'll say about a college campus that we've seen is while we appreciate people who are not involved in campus, you know, caring about this issue, really i think the stakeholders on campus need to take initiative, and that's the administration, as i've said, and it's also students themselves. to me, when people who are not intimately involved and are not students, faculty, administration and the university get involved often they don't see the full picture, so sometimes with good intentions things can go wrong. but i do think it's on us. it's on the administration. >> i saw your statements early. we played them. i admire your leadership on this. i imagine it is a little

jarring, and i invite to you come back. and we're very interested in not making it worse -- that's why i ask that question -- but in hearing how you're doing, so please use your platform to come back as much as you want. stay safe. >> thank you. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. >> quick break for us. we'll be right back. we used to struggle with greasy messes. now, we just freak, wipe, and we're done! with mr. clean clean freak, conquering messes is that easy. clean freak's mist is three times more powerful, and it works on contact. clean freak, just freak, wipe, done. (♪ music ♪) and it works on contact. the walking tree is said to change its entire location in pursuit of sunlight (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change. mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions...

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