>> good morning.

it is saturday, november 4th. i'm ali velshi. we begin this morning with a split screen image that perfectly represents this moment of american politics. with democracy hanging in the balance, donald trump on the campaign trail, and on trial. trail, >> on one side we see a disgraced, twice impeached, multiply that former president raging at the system as the walls close in on him. on the other, the seemingly untouchable front runner for the republican nomination giving his supporters and the rest of the country a preview of his return to power. what it will look like. in the eyes of the backup base, trump is barreling towards the white house in 2024, despite witch hunts on all sides. as he continues to lead his republican competitors by a long shot, he is also continue to undermine and disregard key elements of what it means to be in a democracy. and how democratic processes work. he is refusing to attend the

third republican debate. instead he will hold a counter programming rally nearby next week where he is likely to continue a disturbing line of self aggrandizing rhetoric. casting himself as a political murder. even as two states are currently awaiting the question of whether trump is disqualified from appearing on the 2024 ballots of the early insurrection clause, the 14th amendment of the constitution, last night, donald trump, once again, took the stage at a rally to songs son by criminals who attacked the capitol and said, about january six rioters who have been convicted in their serving jail time, he said, quote, i call them the j six hostages. not prisoners. meanwhile, of course, trump is facing federal charges as well as 91 felony counts and multiple cases. the civil fraud case in new york seemed, at first, to a lot of, people like the least of trump's legal woes. but it has shown, in an

explosive week at trial to be potentially an extremely consequential. the judge in the case, justice arthur engoron, has ruled the trump and his company committed years of fraud by inflating wealth and assets by millions of dollars. the trial is just to determine what the penalty is going to be. we've seen during the trial a man who crafted a personal professional, and political identity based on his real estate empire and financial winds unraveling in realti. just yesterday, the judge in the case ed an existing gag order not just to trump, but to include trump's lawyers. the court order, issued friday afternoon, reads in part quote, mike chambers had been inundated with hundreds of harassing and threatening phone calls, voicemails, emails, letters, and packages, end quote, since the start of the trial. this gag order extends the initial gag order that the judge imposed a month ago after trump shared a social media post attacking the judge's main

locklear. but trump has already violated that gag order two times, earning two fines totaling $15,000. more importantly, calling the judge to threaten trump with jail time if he continues to violate that gag order. at the same time, this week, the former president's two eldest sons testified in the case, and sometimes heated exchanges, attempting to shift the blame of the fraud to the organization's primary accountant. and while trump wasn't in the courtroom this week, he's clearly watching this closely. he's posted on his social media site quote, so sad to see my sons being persecuted in a political witch hunt. joining me now is michael cohen. the former personal attorney for donald trump. he is the principal of the crisis management firm, crisis x, and the new york times off of the, new york times bestselling author of the book revenge, had donald trump weaponized the department of justice against his critics and disloyal, 8 am. are we also hosts the podcasts,

mea culpa, with and -- the political beat down. it's good to see. you want to talk to you because you have testified. you have really been the main witness in this trial. how are you doing? >> i'm hanging in there. as judge engoron said, he's received hundreds of voicemails and threats and, you know, letters. emails and so on. that's just a small amount of the hate that i have received from maga supporters of donald trump over the course of the past couple of weeks. first, when i was initially supposed to testify, and then, of course, when they ultimately did testify. i would like to see that gag order include witnesses in here. witnesses should be protected to the same extent that law clerks and staff and the judge himself, prosecutors, chris kise, trump's attorney, alina

hobbs, and cliff roberts. they are out of control. they are trying to take on donald persona, and in so doing, all they are doing is fostering this hatred and this inappropriate behavior by even now, by civilians outside of the process. from continuing, you know, continuing to do the things they are currently doing, which are really abhorrent. it is witness intimidation. it's obstruction of justice, and it would be nice to see and go around include that in the gag order. >> chris kisen experienced lawyer. alina hobbs, you mentioned, is. not she has largely done nothing in her career except worked for donald trump. i want to get your reaction to this. she stormed out of the court and said this. >> president trump wanted to inflate his network on that statement of financial condition. his brand alone could double

triple its. >> she called that the presidents adult sons, who are in their 40s. she said they were innocent children. let's go back to this brand thing. the whole point of this case, the reason why this is so troubling to donald trump, is arthur engoron and letitia james and you have proved that the emperor has no clothes. donald trump, this self made billionaire, is neither self-made and possibly not a billionaire. >> i'm sure if you take the assets and you add them up, they are certainly worth a billion dollars. that, of course, discounts the fact that there are outstanding obligations, liabilities on those assets. putting all that aside, you are correct. alina habba has no idea what he's doing. she is playing to a party of one. all she's doing is parroting the buzzwords that donald likes here.

in her mind, she thinks she is effective in all of their combined minds, they think what they are doing is going to help them in this case. one of alina its biggest problems when she parrots trump about the brand value is she has no idea how you even determine abrams value. are you going to take a two page document from an individual that claimed it was worth three billion dollars? that is what they want today. that is what they want you to believe. but how do you determine eight grams of value? obviously, i know you have had on the show donny deutsch. he is a great guy to be asking about stuff like this. but the brand value should be predicated upon what that brands will bring to a deal. so, take a look at trump's name. in areas outside of real estate. trump vodka. trump mortgage. trump university. trump stakes. trump ice.

you can go on and on of the failed business ventures that we're license to use his name. so if something produces a company that cannot generate profit, how do you anticipate that there was a brand value here of three billion dollars or more? why? the same way trump talked about the statement of financial condition. it's all about what he believes and what he believes, he thinks everybody else should believe. >> let me ask you. mary trump tweeted about eric trump's testimony. she said, quote, unbelievable. eric testified today and basically just lost the entire case. after testifying he had never heard about the trump organization's statement of financial condition, until recently. he later admitted he knew about it in 2013. after saying he never worked on it, he was shown an email where

employees were told he was working on it. they like so much they can't even keep track of their own bs. sounds like perjury is on today's menu. end quote. talk to me about this. >> listen, mary trump's spot on. i've been saying the exact same thing. you know, don junior and eric lied under oath. in fact, all they are doing is emulating their father, who was put on the stand under oath by judge engoron, in regard to statements that he made outside the courtroom about the judge's law clerk, claiming it was me. she is 100% correct! i mean, the guy lies the way that you breathe, and the kids are doing the same thing. how stupid do they have to be? i really, it is sad to stay, how stupid do you have to be when you are eric trump, for example, executive vice

president of the trump organization, and you claim all you really do is, you know, you pour concrete? let me be very clear. eric has never poured concrete in this life. he wouldn't know how to pour quicksand by adding water to it. and don jr. claims he was just a broker. they were not just brokers. eric did not pour concrete. they were in charge of running the company while their father was presidents, under the control of allen weisselberg, who is the trustee. plain and simple. and the emails, did they not think that government had the emails? did they not think they were going to show it to them? they think this is some sort of a joke? that this is just, hey, we're going to rely upon michael cohen's testimony, who claims he was there in the room with allen weisselberg and patrick bernie and jeff mcconney and so on? we're just going to rely upon them? is that what they thought?

they thought this case is not going to be predicated off of documentary evidence? i mean, again, chris skies, alina habba, and you have cliff robert. what sort of preparation did they get from these three legal beagles? the answer is clearly zilch. >> michael, you are brave for what you're doing. this has been tough. you are in there, facing donald trump for the first time since your own troubles. between looking at you and looking at letitia james and looking up at judge who were coming down on him, this is definitely taking a toll on donald trump. thanks for being here, my friends. >> always good to see you, ali. >> michael cohen, former personal attorney to donald trump, usually bestselling book of prevention disloyal, and the host of the podcast mea culpa and political beat down. as the white house pushes for a humanitarian pause to the war between hamas and israel, overnight, israel's bombardment of gaza continues. prime minister benjamin

netanyahu maintains there will be no cease-fire unless israeli hostages are released. we're going live to the ground for the very latest. plus, in the wake of the hamas attack, and israel's ensuing attacks on gaza, there have been accusations from the international community that both sides may have committed war crimes. coming up, we will look at what determines a war crime, and take a look at how the rules that govern war came to be. you are watching velshi on msnbc. on msnbc. new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

is it possible my network could take my business whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. today, the u.s. secretary of comcast business, powering possibilities.

state, anthony blinken, is hearing demands for an immediate cease-fire in gaza as he meets top middle east officials in amman, courted. the trip comes just one day after he wasn't israel, pushing for a pause, not a cease-fire, in the constant bombardment of the enclave, which would potentially allow israeli hostages to be released and permit humanitarian aid to get in. the situation in the region

continues to grow more bleak by the day. roughly 1.4 billion people, more than half of the entire population, have been displaced from their homes in gaza. either because they have left out of fear for those homes being destroyed, or, because the homes have been destroyed. according to the palestinian health ministry, more than 9400 people have been killed, including nearly 4000 children. the israeli prime minister's office reports more than 1400 people have been killed in israel. it also says the number of hostages held by, held captive by hamas currently stands at 241. meanwhile, israeli airstrikes continue to break down on the entire gaza strip. earlier today, and attack ripped through a city in gaza south. at least ten people were reportedly -- and the palestinian red crescent said reportedly 15 people in a caravan of ambulances were killed yesterday by shelling outside

the al-shifa hospital where many gazans have sought century. joining me now, nbc news foreign correspondent just letter. majestic, you so much. what more do we know about the israeli attack on the convoy of ambulances? >> well we know that the palestinian health ministry run by hamas, ali, it's saying that there were 15 people killed and it was a whole convoy leaving the largest hospital in gaza that was hit by that air strike. now, the israeli military are not disputing that the hit an ambulance, but they say the ambulance was being used by hamas. they also say they are planning to release more information to backup their claim that hamas is transporting both weapons and terrorists inside ambulances within the gaza strip. we haven't seen that evidence yet. but it comes as the white house is really starting to put more pressure on israel over its military strategy. both over the mounting civilian death toll from incidences like this. also, over israel's refusal to

consider the type of pause in israeli strikes that the u.s. now urgently wants to see. we saw prime minister netanyahu emerge yesterday from eight meeting with secretary blinken here in this rail, saying not going to happen. we're not going to consider that. that sort of sets the tone for the meetings that blinken is now having today in jordan with the foreign ministers from many u.s. allies in the region, like egypt, like the emiratis and the saudis. all of whom are now calling not only for pauses but for a cease-fire. the u.s. not going as far as to call for a full cease-fire, but it is clear that this is starting to deteriorate some of the relations in the region. in fact, just today, we heard from the government of turkey they are now recalling that their ambassador to israel is basically, in protest, if israel's refusal to consider a cease-fire. just within the last hour, secretary blinken has announced that once he wraps up his current set of meetings in jordan, he is actually going to make a last-minute stop in

turkey. so, you could see the u.s. government clearly trying to stem the damage here and try to keep u.s. allies on the same page. as they work to facilitate this humanitarian aid getting into gaza, more civilians getting out, some unfortunate news on that front today, which is that the border authorities in gaza say no more foreign nationals are going to be allowed out into egypt until injured palestinians are let out into egypt as well. and that appears to be alluding to a disagreement we heard from last night, from a senior biden administration official, who said when there was the initial list of injured palestinians that hamas wanted to get out along with the foreign nationals, the u.s. took a look at it and it turned out the third of them were actually hamas fighters. so, that has been one of the key areas of disagreement that is now holding up getting more people out of gaza. ali? >> you make an interesting point. not only are these countries that blinken's meeting with american allies, but turkey, egypt, and jordan enjoy or at

least have enjoyed, until the last few weeks, strong diplomatic relations with israel. that, too, is at stake. josh, thank you for your excellent reporting, as always. please stay safe. nbc news foreign correspondent, josh lederman, is in israel. believe it or not, there are rules that govern war. the law of armed conflict informs the modern definition of war crimes and sets guidelines for protecting civilians and non combatants. these laws begin to take shape after the aftermath of the holocaust. we will get into that, after a quick break. ick break. dryness and frizz that keeps coming back, could be damaged hair that can't retain moisture. you need pantene's miracle rescue deep conditioner. it's filled with pro-vitamins to help hair lock in moisture, visibly repairing six months of damage in just one use, with no weigh-down. guaranteed, or your money back. for hair that looks healthy and stays healthy. if you know, you know it's pantene.

♪ today, my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> there has been no shortage of horrific images and stories coming out of the middle east since hamas attacked israel on october the 7th. 1400 people were killed in israel that day, and almost 10,000 people in gaza are believed to have been killed in israel's subsequent invasion.

for a few trucks i get in from egypt each day, got us 2 million residents are largely cut off from freshwater, electricity, fuel, and other resources until as israel demands, hamas releases the 241 hostages that is believed to be holding captive. the brutality of the conflict has given rise to an intense global response, including accusations that both israel and hamas, the de facto governing body in the gaza strip, have committed war crime. contradictory as it may seem, there are rules that govern war. in particular, there are a set of rules known as international humanitarian law. sometimes called the law of armed conflict. it's a set of laws that apply when two or more states engage in arms conflict regardless of which party initiated combat. international humanitarian law aims to strike a balance between addressing a nations need to defend itself and sparing civilians and non combatants from the dangers of war.

it includes five basic principles. that actions carried out must, by the military, must be necessary. they must distinguish between civilians and legitimate targets. that military actions must be proportionate in order to avoid incidental harm. that they must avoid unnecessary human suffering, and that military actions must be honorable. the modern understanding of international humanitarian law began to take shape in the aftermath of the holocaust. shortly after the end of world war ii, 21 top not see officials were arrested and indicted on a number of charges. including herman gehrig, the infamous chief of the german air force and the last president of the reichstag who gave the order to carry out quote, the final solution of the jewish question, end quote. beginning in november 1945, and lasting until october 1946, goering and other not see officials were brought before

the international military tribunal in the romberg, honey, to stand trial for their crimes. in preparation for the prosecution, the international law commission of the united nations drafted a set of guidelines that became known as the nuremberg principles. it defined war crimes as quote, violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of oren occupied territory, murder or ill treatment of prisoners of war, of persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastating, devastation not justified by military necessity. the nuremberg principal through the beginning. over the following years, participants from the around the world participated in

conferences with a goal of updating the geneva conventions, laws that govern international relations. in an effort to get the global community united on a set of principles. in 1949, a set of four conventions, which in this context means treaties, was unveiled. those conventions harmed the court of international humanitarian law as we know it. they offer a framework for how countries are expected to treat civilians, non-combatants, the sick, the wounded, and person there is a four during times of conflict. it's also meant to protect non-military personnel, like medical professionals and humanitarian workers who may be working on the ground in battle zones. all 196 member states of the united nations have ratified the 1949 version of a geneva conventions, including israel. amendments known as the additional protocols were added to the geneva conventions in 1977 in order to strengthen protections for civilians and

victims of armed conflict. but today, a number of countries, including the united states and israel, have not adopted the additional particles because of their objections to parts of its provisions. joining me now is and a half away, professional of international law at yale law school, director of the yellow school center for global legal challenges and the executive editor of just security, ona, i'd say it's good to see you, but it's never good to see you, because we always talk about war crimes. and the immediate aftermath of the october 7th attacks, israel and the united states repeatedly asserted the fact that israel has the right to defend itself. that is largely accepted. but what does international humanitarian law tell us about how military's decide on what an appropriate response to an attack like october 7th is? >> yeah. you are exactly right, there has been no question that israel has a right to defend itself. in fact, the actions committed

by hamas or, themselves, or crimes. they wanton destruction, the deaths and intentional targeting of civilians, sexual assaults, all the rest. those were all were crimes. but that doesn't mean you can't do anything in response, right? self-defense does allow you to defend yourself, but there are some limits to what you can do. international humanitarian law places some limits on the behavior of states are responding rightfully to attacks on themselves. , so as you mentioned, in particular, one of the key requirements is that states have to protect civilians. they have to distinguish between combatants and civilians and try to minimize the impact of the war on civilians. >> the death toll in gaza may well reach 10,000 this weekend. mostly civilian, children and women. when we are thinking about war crimes, what is the distinction between the killing of non-combatants and that term

that we have been hearing for decades, collateral damage? some officials have used that in the past to refer to civilian casualties that occur as a result of military activity. >> right. this turn, collateral damage, is a term that is used when a military is properly and intentionally targeting a military object. they are trying to target leadership of hamas or they are trying to target weapons cache of hamas. that is permissible. they are allowed to do that. they are allowed to aim at that military objects. but what if there are civilians in the way? what if there are civilians above ground? these are in tunnels, a lot of these objects are located in tunnels. a lot of hamas has located both their headquarters and many of their forces are located in these tunnels. their facilities and weapons caches are entitles. and civilians are above ground. above these tunnels. so, when you are aiming at these military objects, you are permitted, within, limits too

have some collateral damage. collateral damage literally is killing civilians and destruction of civilian objects. but the limitation is it has to be proportional. so, you have to limit the destruction that you do in the process of your legitimate targeting of military objects. you can't kill an outside number of civilians, even though you may have a legitimate military objects you are targeting. >> oona, there's another term we're hearing a lot about. it's collective punishment. it's a term that has been used over the past two weeks. what does collective punishment mean, and how should we think about in terms of the rules of war? >> the idea of collective punishment is you are essentially punishing an entire population that acts of some within that population. the way in which it's being used here is hamas has embedded within the population that civilian population within gaza, so part of what israel is doing

is not just aiming specifically at those members of hamas that are in gaza, but by putting in place, for instance, this siege and significant targeting of infrastructure, cutting off water, cutting off food and the like. they are engaging in, but is sometimes termed, collective punishment. collective punishment is not permitted. to the extent that what one is trying to do is actually intentionally impose harm on civilians, that is not permitted. you are not allowed to potentially try to harm civilians in order to punish an entire population for the harm that some within it are doing. you can't legitimately target those combatants. you can aim at legitimate military objects. but you can't harm an entire population, just because there are some combatants located within it. >> this is something you and i have talked about when we were dealing with russia and ukraine. it's a little bit different here, because very few governments recognize some of

as a legitimate government or an organization. even the palestinian authority doesn't really recognize hamas as the government of gaza. how does that play into this discussion of violations of international humanitarian law? or, in the case of possible were crimes prosecutions? >> you're right about that. it does make this complicated. the fact that generally, the status of gaza makes this all quite complicated and among international lawyers, people are talking about is just occupied territory? it's occupied by israel, even though israel doesn't exercise effective control? but they contain the ability to -- from gaza, and therefore, that might be enough to make it occupied territory. therefore, there is this question of who is it, exactly, that israel is going to war against? is it going to war against hamas, in this case, we would call this on an international armed conflict. or, is it waging war on palestine? which, again, about 130 states

recognize, not including the united states and israel. and so there is this question. is this an international armed conflict, or is it just an international armed conflict? that makes some differences on the margins, i say. it does make some differences about what exactly the obligations are that israel has towards this citizens and gaza. it doesn't change the bottom line. the bottom line is even if it's a non-international armed conflict, even if this is a war between israel and hamas, and organized non-actor, they are basic principle side apply. the statement that -- combat minutes, the proportionality that when you are aiming at a military objects, you can't unnecessarily and agree justly affect civilians or civilian objects. those basic rules apply regardless. and so, it's what we need to be focusing on. >> you mention in the river trials earlier and that was one of the things that shaped our

understanding of war crimes today. there were no prosecutions held for the dropping of nuclear, atomic weapons on japan. what's the distinction there? lots and lots of innocent non-combatants died in japan. the argument was these innocent people died so fewer innocent people die in the future. how does that fit into this whole discussion? >> there is some robust beta got scholars about if that took place today, would it be a clear violation of the geneva conventions? i think most people think almost certainly, it would be. particularly the context in which those decisions were made. that's the context in which you almost have to weigh the military objects. , so what is it you are attempting to achieve? and we're, legitimately, can you, what kind of harm can you expect on civilian populations to achieve that military objective? i think there is parallels here in israel sees this as an existential threat. they see this war asked really about there legitimacy to exist

and defend themselves. and that is why it appears they seem to be willing to accept much more significant civilian harm then typically would be the case of this kind of conflict. they see military objects as their actual existence. their ability to continue to defend their population, and so they are willing to accept a broader severely endemic as a result. it might draw some parallels into the way the u.s. thought about the launching of nuclear weapons at the end of world war ii, the importance of bringing the war to a close, this was seen by some as the only way to bring the end to it. nonetheless, i think wiping out an entire city these days would be considered not within the current rules of armed conflict. >> oona, i'm always deeply appreciative of your expertise and analysis to our audience. oona hathaway is an international professor at yale

international school of law and the -- security. while identifying a potential war crime is one thing, prosecuting it is entirely different monster. in the next hour, we will dive to the statue that the fines what military acts can be prosecuted at score crimes, and who has the authority to prosecute them. and which country rejects the entire statue in question? you might be surprised about who is on that list. velshi continues next. tinues next. s. i served three overseas tours. i love to give back to the community. i offer what i can when i can. i started noticing my memory was slipping. i saw a prevagen commercial and i did some research on it. i started taking prevagen about three years ago. i feel clearer in my thoughts, my memory has improved and generally just more on point. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours.

for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. can we get real clear about life with psoriasis? yeah, i'm ready. is your treatment leaving you with uncontrolled symptoms? like the cover-it-ups and brush-it-offs? enough with good enoughs. don't stay hiding or hurting. when your lotions and creams don't do enough to help treat the inflammation beneath the skin, causing plaques and pain, it's time to get real about psoriasis, so, your dermatologist can help you get clear. make the appointment and ask about real clear skin. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

♪ ♪

♪ we're building a better postal service. for more on-time deliveries. and easier, affordable ways to ship. so you can deliver even more holiday joy. the united states postal service. delivering for america. >> one of the things you've discussed on the show is the degree to which the secretary of state, anthony blinken, whether you agree with what he saying or he don't, is engaged in old-fashioned shuttle diplomacy. the idea a secretary of state or a senior american diplomat is on a plane between capitals, trying to work out on a very personal level how to end a conflict. that is what blinken is doing. he was back in tel aviv for the third time yesterday. issuing a stark or, he didn't

want to call it a warning. he called, advice from the best of friends, to benjamin netanyahu. to talk about a pause, not the cease-fire a lot of people are asking for, but a pause in the fight. and to minimize civilian deaths, he is now flown to a, montour, where he is meeting with foreign ministers of american allies from arab states, including egypt and jordan. he is going to meet with them. they are asking for this. these are both countries, by the, way egypt and jordan, which enjoy strong diplomatic relations with israel. egypt, since 1979, jordan, for decades. they hear responsibilities over the disputed parts of east jerusalem. and turkey, turkey is not going to be at this meeting, but the turks have taken a very strong position on what israel is doing in gaza. so blinken has just announced that after this press conference, after this meeting in jordan, he is going to go to turkey to have conversations with officials there.

, so we're going to keep an eye on this for you. we will probably put it in the corner of the screen, just to watch what's going on. we've got our producers listening into what anthony blinken and the other foreign ministers are saying. but anthony blinken is set to give a joint news conference with the foreign ministers, egypt and jordan, momentarily. this is going to focus on the idea of a humanitarian pause or a cease-fire in the war. we will keep you posted on that. phil she continues, right after this break. and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ >> the liberal coalition of

play a crucial role in securing joe biden's victory over donald trump in 2020 is frogging over the white house's stance on the war in israel and gaza. while the palestinian death toll was fast approaching 10,000, according to the gaza health ministry, calls from progressives for president biden to demand an immediate cease-fire are growing. biden has been unequivocal in

his support for israel since hamas's surprise attack on october the 7th. the president seemed to shift slightly away from unconditional support of israel last week, by endorsing a humanitarian pause to facilitate the flow of humanitarian aid into gaza, which is notably short of calling for a cease-fire. israeli prime minister netanyahu has said no cease fire will take place until all the hostages are freed. however, here at home, progressives and muslim arab voters in swing stes are warning biden that unflinching support of israel's campaign in gaza will cost him votes. a gallup poll conducted last week registered a decline of 11 percentage points in biden's approval rating among democrats, since the outbreak of the war. he went from 86% approval among democrats in september two 75% in october. those are his lowest numbers yet. in a statement issued with the poll's findings, gallup noted the war in gaza was a

contributing factor. the pushback to biden's stance is particularly pronounced among arab and muslim american voters. a recent poll from the arab american institute found a sharp decline in support among arab americans, reaching an all-time low of 17%. those votes matter. think michigan, for example, home to the largest concentration of arab americans in the country. biden returned the key swing state to the democratic column in the last election, where 145,000 arab votes contributed to biden's overall margin of victory of 155,000 votes. several of the states prominent democrats are now cautioning the biden administration that many in the community are vowing to vote against him or, at best, withhold their votes, unless he calls for a cease-fire. biden's stance puts him at odds with young voters, too. in a recent poll, only 32% of

18 to 34-year-olds express approval of israel's response in gaza. this is important, because that same demographic of voters strongly supported biden in the 2020 election, giving him a 24 point advantage over trump. according to the pew research center, no other demographic group showed such robust support for biden. this rift in the democratic party is not just among disaffected voters. it's happening inside the party itself. right up to the halls of congress. it's happening right out in the open. it's being chronicled by political reporters every major newspaper that's a washington presence. just this week, over 50 democratic national committee employees wrote and open letter to the party's leadership, urging biden to press biden for a cease-fire. the signatories are mainly responsible for fundraising in for biden's campaign for reelection. add to that, more than 400 congressional staffers who signed the letter urging their bosses to support a cease-fire. among those staffers pushing for a cease-fire was adam reamer, the former political

director for the congressman rokita ofcalifornia. robert resigned after two weeks on the job. he described his internal le to the new yorker saying quote, i took a long walk in a park i really love. and i made up my mind, this is my red line. that evening, he wrote khanna a resignation letter. i cannot, in good conscience, continue in this role. continued escalation will only kill more israelis and palestinians, and will impact american lives as well. khanna responded swiftly and tactfully. you are a man of conviction. i respect that. since then, broke on the has gone on to support a humanitarian pause and gaza. that congressman joins me to talk about all of this, after a quick break. k break. pneumococcal pneumonia? i help others. but i need to help protect myself. honestly? i couldn't afford to get sick. i want to be there for this one. i can't if i'm sick. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease. you may be at risk if you're 19 to 64

with certain chronic conditions. or if you're 65 or older. don't pause a moment longer. ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated against pneumococcal pneumonia today. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervive nerve relief

from the world's number one nerve care company. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes.

buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> i'm joined by the democratic

representatives ro from khanna california, who served on both the armed services committee in the oversight and accountability committee. congressman, it's good to see you. by the, way i wanted to point out on the screen right now, congressman, we got the foreign ministers of each, if, jordan and, of course, secretary blinken. we are going to keep an ear on that to let you know if any news develops out of. it, so i will let you know ahead of time, congressman, in case i need to interrupt you. you will understand this stuff. thank you for being with us, first of all, this morning, sir. >> thank you. appreciate you having me on. >> let's talk about this. you have stopped short of calling for a cease-fire, but you have asked for a humanitarian pause instead. there are lots of criticisms of

everybody who takes every position on this, whether you call for a cease-fire or a humanitarian pause, or nothing at all. what is the response you have had to critics who say a pause just drags out the stuff that is going on? >> well, here is my position. what happened on october 7th was brutal, atrocious, israel has the right to get the hamas perpetrators and bring them to justice. but it's just heartbreaking to see the enormous civilian casualties. it's a complex situation, because hamas does have military equipment and fighters in civilian areas. we need not just a humanitarian pause to get food and fuel and electricity into gaza. we also need to make sure that the bombing is not targeting, in any way, hissing, the civilian sites like schools and refugee camps. i know israel is not, in anyway,

targeting civilians, but as your conversation with oona half of a show, there is this extraordinary obligation to make the distinction between civilian and military combatants and my view is, in that complex case, where you have many civilians, we should have operational patients that the military can get the hamas territory, they can get -- them in the tunnels, but there should not be this bombing of schools, of refugee camps, hospitals. >> there are, as i was describing in the last segment, lots of fissures here. there are some amongst members of congress. there are some within the democratic party establishment. there are some of the white house. and there are some amongst voters. but huffington post exclusive is reporting the approach that joe biden and the white house initially took is fueling tension within the state

department, where managers have told staffers they shouldn't expect to influence u.s. policy on israel palestine, regardless of their national security chops. the article quotes, some department staff say as they feel as if blinken and his team are uninterest in their experts as vice, as a focus on supporting israel's expanding eration in gaza. there's basically a mutiny brewing within state at all levels, one state department official said. this is interesting, because the same reporting indicates that these experts are told, your expertise and commentary is welcome on all other issues, not on this one. this is interesting to me. >> look. this is an emotional issue. it is an issue that goes to a person's view of justice, of history, and so it causes and come as a surprise to me that there are heated opinions of that at the state department. i do believe secretary blinken has reached out antisemitic with them, ultimately, the

president and secretary of state's decision. one thing i have suggested to the president and his team is he should meet with the members of congress who have called for a cease-fire. not one of them, but there are 18 to 20 members who have. and i do think the secretary and the administration need to engage members of all parties. the one thing i think the progressive wing it's coalescing around desist idea that i expressed earlier, the bombings of dense civilian sites should not take place. even if there is terrorists there, even if hamas is using civilian human shields, there are other ways to track and get those terrorists. >> are you concerned, particularly, with the data i was sharing about where arab americans and muslims are on this, particularly in the state of michigan, where it was a very close election? are you concerned that this divide, if not addressed, and i'm not arguing about how it should be addressed, because

there may be a lot of ways to address this, could cost democrats the election in 2024? >> i am concerned that it is a political issue, but it is not, ali, just with the muslim americans and in dearborn, michigan, or with arab americans. there is a generational divide on this issue. this is an issue that has touched progressives, so, it's an issue that is really touched and emotional nerve in among democrats, and that is why i had suggested we do need to engage in people across the party, and at least have a dialogue and listen, and understand where they're coming from. >> congressman, always good to talk with you. thank you for being with us. i'm sorry in your state but we're not close enough to be together in person, but perhaps the next time. good to see you as always, sir. >> good to see, thank you for having me this morning. >> the congressman ro khanna is on armed services committee and he did serve as a deputy assistant secretary of commerce in the obama administration.