lie otherwise. they know, and this is true in the country, that if people understand that that's the consequence, that issue one should pass. that is what ohioans, if you haven't voted, yet that is the outcome. and the governor is trying to say, oh, we negotiate this, we're going to change it. he had his chance, and he signed an extreme ban, no exceptions, that sense ten-year-old rape victim to indiana. they're never going to change this. if you vote yes, your voting to give ohioans a right to make their own decisions, if you vote no, the result will be a law that literally says, even victims of rape have to go somewhere else because here in ohio, they don't get new treatment. that's just wrong. that is something that 80% of ohioans disagree with. the far-right is working very, very hard to make it about anything but their extremism. that, in the end, is what prompted this entire amendment process to begin with. it was a response to that

tragedy that happened, that ten-year-old girl, a little more than a year ago. >> david, we'll talk next weekend, thank you for this, we will stay close to this issue, and the voting begins on tuesday. david pepper is the former chairman of the ohio democratic party. coming up in the last next hour, it's need lincoln made an unannounced visit to the occupied west bank this morning. he met there with the palestinian president, mahmoud abbas. we will go straight to the region in just a few moments and bring you the very latest on that meeting and what could come next. plus, i'll be joined by the former israeli prime minister, naftali bennett, to talk about the war. the roiling protest movement against the current prime minister, and the future of the conflict. also, ben rhodes, the formal bomber speech writer and deputy national security adviser is with me in studio this morning. in another hour of velshi begins, right now. >> good morning, it is, sunday november the 5th. i am ali velshi.

we begin this hour with continued chaos and dysfunction in american politics. tomorrow, donald trump, the de facto leader of the republican party, and the front runner to be their presidential nominee will take the stand in new york city. to testify in a trial where the judge has already ruled that he, his sons, and their company, committed fraud for years. on wednesday, some of his remaining opponents will participate in a third presidential debate in miami, while the former president holds a rally. instead in a neighboring town. all of that law constitutional challenges regarding his eligibility to run or hold public office make their way through the courts in multiple states. meanwhile, the house is back in business, with a new speaker and just 12 days to avoid a shutdown before funding for the federal government runs out. mike johnson, the new speaker of the house, has his work cut out for. him although his house republican colleagues unanimously voted for him, albeit, after three weeks of

chaos, bitter divisions remain within his conference. that was clear last week when new york republicans led the effort to expel one of their own. the indicted congressman, george santos, in a motion that ultimately failed. and in a wake of the speakership mess, three republican members, ken buck, kay granger, and debbie lasko, have since announced that they will not seek reelection in next year's election. still, all of these people must somehow work together to keep the government funded and take up other priorities. the house has managed to pass a stand alone bill to provide aid to israel last week. but johnson must now reckon with the reality of d.c. politics. that bill that the house passed stands no chance of going anywhere, since the white house in the senate want a package that includes aid to both israel, and ukraine. even the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, supports the white house's plan, pinning johnson up against the senate's top republican.

now johnson's low profile might have actually helped him land the speakership, but now that he is in the spotlight, the country is learning about his deeply and tab in this take views on abortion, and lgbtq rights, as well as the role he played in gathering support for trump's efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. this is the state of the republican party, ahead of another crucial election that is exactly one year away today. joining me now is the washington post opinion writer, jennifer reuben. she is also an msnbc political analyst. she is the host of the podcast, jen rubin's green room, and the author of the book, resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. also with us is norm ornstein, he's a senior fellow emeritus at the american enterprise institute. he is the co-host of the words matter podcast. good morning to both of you, thank you for being here for what is becoming irregular segment for the three of us on the dysfunction in congress. jen, let me start with you. there is a new poll out this

morning by the new york times in, siena college. it shows that in a hypothetical head to head between donald trump and joe biden, trump is leading in five of the six battleground shape where the poll registered voters. i guess, we have to say, we are a year out of the election. but does this surprise you? and what factors do you think are in play here that help trump pull ahead? >> i really don't take it all that seriously. to get into the weeds just a little bit, nearly a quarter of the voters in this poll didn't vote last time, which suggests they pulled up a lot of registered but unlikely voters. there are also some numbers that just makes no sense. i have seen nowhere where donald trump, for example, is trailing biden by only one point with youngest voters. so i think these polls are sort of catnip for the new york times and four other organizations. i'd like to go back to the same period of time in the obama administration, in other administrations, and the

president was going to be a one term president, it was, hopeless blah, blah, blah. i think it is a data point, not a very important one. and as you point out, a year from now, we are going to be in a very different landscape. >> right, norm, we're in a wild news cycle we're literally day today an hour to hour things will change. you're right, we put these things up his data points because it is not for us to not tell our viewers that this is the case, but i would agree. the weight on it is something our viewers have to decide for themselves. methin >> i would ask you though, are we operating in two worlds where there is donald trump and what he is doing, and congress, and what they are doing? or are the two going to come together at some point and show voters what this complete dysfunction of the republican party looks like right now? donald trump and his legal travails in congress, i don't know, every kind of troubles. >> i think that will happen, ali. one of the things that i think is clear here is that most voters have paid nowhere little attention to donald trump's

legal problems. that will change when we get criminal trials, and especially if and when we get convictions. and at the same time, while lots will happen and change over the course of the next year, when we get down to two choices, and we have one presidential candidate who is for a complete muslim ban who has supported and launched with, not cesar neo-nazis, and who has a criminal conviction, and we had issues like, post jobs world and abortion, as you were just discussing with david pepper. that will reemerge, when we see clear choices. i think we will find a different dynamic. but that is not to sugarcoat a series of polls that show that, for reasons that we will have to explore, for many years, a president who's had astonishing success in many areas, including the economy, been as masterful as possible on foreign policy, even as the

world is falling apart. has such low standing with the public. and that includes empathy, and personal likability, which is really its greatest strength. >> jen, over the past few weeks, we have seen the war between israel and hamas split some factions of the democratic party. what is your sense of how democrats manage this? is this a short term matter? is it something that biden can repair? is it going to repair itself? what is your sense of it? >> i think the vast majority of americans and the vast majority of democrats are supportive of two things. one, israel's right to defend itself. and two, a two state solution. i think, so long as biden maintains his position, both that israel has a right to defend itself within the laws of war, and we have to make a much bigger push after the fighting stops to resolve the palestinian issue, that he will

essentially hold the democratic coalition together. i have to go back to and adage however, and that is that people really vote on foreign policy. in a presidential election. could this be problematic for biden? yes. but i would not get too exercised until we see that there is some really serious issue within the democratic party, as opposed to a lot of action in a street by people who may or may not be voters may or may not be registered, may or may not be likely voters. biden, to underscore norms point, has really handled this in the most masterful way possible. not allowing extremists on either side to really diver him, or push him down a road that is going to be dangerous for israel and insoluble to the palestinians. >> norm, let's talk about mike johnson. i mean, i was in israel when this was all going down. so i probably was not as ready and on it as i normally would be. i had not really heard about

mike johnson all that much before his name was floated for speaker. but, like most americans, we are all learning a little bit more about this. mike johnson has only been in congress for six years. he has got some fairly out their views outside of the mainstream on abortion and same sex marriage and lgbtq rights. he did support the effort to overturn the 2020 election last week in response to the mass shootings, when he was asked about gun control, he said, quote, the end of the day the problem is the human heart. i don't know. does this stuff come back to bite him? or does that does not count for anything anymore in this republican party that is in disarray as it is? >> i think we're going to find that many republicans in the house may regret the choice that they've made. and it is not just his extremist views and religious fundamentalist views. we are learning more about mike johnson as a person and his record. for a couple of years, he was

the dean of an extremist law school that lost its accreditation. we know now that after -- he is 51 years old. he had a career as a lawyer, including working for a number of extremist organizations. g for a number of>> part of the reason we know about his views on lgbtq issues is because of that. but he had other clients, and he said that he has no assets, no big account. he's been in congress for six years, making what most americans would see as a pretty nice sum of money. there is something really squarely about this. and a guy who is not going to come under great scrutiny when he's in a safe seat louisiana, and as a backbencher. but i think we are going to find a lot more about him, that suggests to me that his tenure as speaker might be quite a short one. then, we are going to get back to, not just his own views, but the fact that they reflect a republican party in the house

where the lunatic fringe is a majority right now. and in senate ability, to govern its unwillingness to even consider ways of governing, i think it will come back to haunt republicans. mitch mcconnell's desire, even to back some of joe biden's policies, are scared to death that that will reflect on his senate candidates, and his goal is to get a majority in the senate. he does not want to be dragged down by the antics in the house. >> yeah. it does seem like that. it sounds like you in the house do whatever you need to do, we've got a different thing going on over here in the senate. always good to see the two of you, let's make this a regular thing as we seem to be doing. i will see you next weekend. >> jennifer reuben, an opinion writer for the washington post an msnbc political analyst and dr. norman or ms. dean, a senior fellow emeritus at the american enterprise institute and co host of the podcast, words matter. a quick programming note, this wednesday, rachel maddow on team will be leading expert analysis following the next republican debate in miami. make sure to tune in for our

extensive analysis of theevent on wednesday evening at ten pm eastern on msnbc. it is also streaming on peacock. all right, coming, up secretary of state entity blinken made an unannounced visit to the occupied west bank this morning and met with palestinian president, mahmoud abbas. we are going to go to tel aviv for the very latest on that. and, then i will be joined by the former israeli prime minister, naftali bennett. we will be right back. ight back. ight back. [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe

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news out of the middle east were early this morning, in israeli strike on a refugee camp in the gaza strip killed at least 47 people, and wounded dozens, according to the ministry of health and gaza. nbc news cannot independently verify those numbers, more than 1.4 million people have been displaced in gaza since october 7th, health officials there say in 9770 people have been killed. israel says 1400 people were killed in the hamas attack on

october 7th, and 241 are being held hostage. the u.s. secretary of state, anthony blinken, made a surprise visit to the occupied west bank this morning, where he met with the palestinian authority president, mahmoud abbas. abbas reiterated calls for an immediate cease fire, however, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu told lincoln on friday that there would be no temporary cease-fire until all israeli hostages were released. joining me now live from tel aviv is nbc's correspondent erin mclaughlin. erin, good afternoon to you. what more can you tell us about the strike on the refugee camp in gaza? >> well, ali, our team on the ground in gaza managed to make its way to that refugee camp. the maghazi refugee camp, which, according to the gaza health ministry, was struck in the overnight hours by the israelis, hitting eight nothing, killing at least 47 palestinian civilians, although nbc cannot

independently verify that tall, that is a battle that is expected to rise there on the ground, given the scene that our team recorded. buildings completely flattened, palestinian men, and boys with hammers and knives, trying to cut through concrete slats, to get at what they say are more of the dead. the dead bodies trapped within the rubble. he spoke to one man who said, they don't have the kind of equipment, the kind of machinery that is necessary for that kind of recovery operation. we have yet to hear from the israeli military on that apparent strike. specifically, meanwhile to the north in gaza city around the al-quds hospital, one of the main hospitals in gaza city, the palestinian red crescent

reporting intense fighting happening all day today around the hospital, including israeli airstrikes, as well as israeli artillery fire one airstrike, hitting a building. some 50 meters away from the entrance of the al-quds hospital causing damage to the hospital, and injuring palestinians who was seeking refuge the same way inside the hospital. that heavy fighting and no comment from the israeli military on that, although the israeli military has been making a push to encourage palestinian civilians to evacuate from the north where the fighting is concentrated to the south, pointing to a number of efforts today, including a four hour window, they say they opened up to allow for that evacuation. although in the past, palestinians say that if there is no incoming fire on the roadways, the roadways

themselves have been damaged by the fighting, making that evacuation much more difficult. ali? >> erin, thank, you as always, stay safe for your reporting there. my old friend. nbc's erin mclaughlin in tel aviv. up next, my one-on-one conversation with the former israeli prime minister enough kelly bennett. you are watching velshi on msnbc. msnbc. cat nip toy from chewy. that's not a phone. get a free, $30 e-gift card at chewy. this is better than toilet paper. get great deals on gifts that deliver excitement at chewy. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

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take a moment to pause and ask, why did you get vaccinated against pneumococcal pneumonia? i help others. but i need to help protect myself. honestly? i couldn't afford to get sick.

i want to be there for this one. i can't if i'm sick. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease. you may be at risk if you're 19 to 64 with certain chronic conditions. or if you're 65 or older. don't pause a moment longer. ask your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated against pneumococcal pneumonia today. >> thousands of demonstrators across israel flooded the streets on saturday, calling for benjamin netanyahu's resignation, with some also demanding an immediate cease fire of the attacks on gaza. outside the israeli prime minister's residence, hundreds of protesters chanted, jail now, as they push through police barriers. these protests are the largest yet since the outbreak of the gaza conflict, and they come on the heel of a -- poll showing over three quarters of israelis believe

netanyahu should step down amid widespread anger at the security failures around last month's deadly attack by hamas gunman. while netanyahu has refused to accept culpability for the attack, other israeli officials have stepped up, including former prime minister naftali bennett. then, it who held office from june 2021 to june 2022, recently acknowledged his share of responsibility for the failures leading up to the assault. in an interview with israeli media, he stated, quote, of course i also bear responsibility. i served as prime minister for 12 months. there were things that i can't elaborate on, but i didn't have time to, that i could have dramatically changed the situation, and then the government fell, and quote. bennett's brief tenure as israeli -- as israel's leader was notable for having part of a diverse coalition of parties from the right, the left, the center, and notably, an arab party, first time in the country's history that's happened. his political ascension followed a distinguished military career having served

in two branches of the israeli special forces. bennett is a former tech entrepreneur who once described himself as more right-wing than netanyahu, and is now the former head of the now defunct, you mean a party, which supported increased jewish settlement in territories that israel occupies. a position that puts them at odds with palestinians who seek statehood on their land. the settlements are considered illegal by most of the international community, but not by israel, and not by its chief patron, the united states. the settlements remain a deeply contentious issue between israel and the palestinians, who seek their removal to pave the way for an eventual independent palestinian state. a goal that is supported by the united states, and was reiterated by secretary of state blinken this morning in his unannounced meeting with palestinian authority president, mahmoud abbas. bennett is deeply opposed to the creation of a palestinian state, telling israeli media as recently as last september that, quote, we need to say clearly that there is no place for

another state between the mediterranean and the jordan river. not just because of our right to the land but also because practically there is no chance of a diplomatic process with the palestinian succeeding. and quote. in 2012, bennett drew criticism for a statement directed at an israeli arab member of parliament, in which he asserted at the jewish right to settle the west bank, saying to the arab member, quote, when you are still swinging from trees, we had a jewish state here. and quote. with more, i'm joined by naftali bennett himself, former prime minister of israel, former chief of staff, or incumbent prime minister, benjamin netanyahu. it is good to see you again. i'm sorry we can be together, you're the studios in new york, but i appreciate the time you taking the talk to us this morning. >> thank you. >> let me ask you this. israel's allies, including the united states, have said that any resolution to this crisis must include a roadmap toward the establishment of a palestinian state. is it still your position that

israel is entitled to palestinian land in the occupied west bank? >> this is not about land. on october 7th, at 6:30 a.m., roughly 3000 terrorist, hamas terrorists, infiltrated israeli communities. >> i'm going interrupt you sir. i'm asking a separate question. we discussed this before. is your position that israelis -- palestinians are not entitled to a state? because this is the question this morning. >> despite your trying to focus this on that. >> i'm not trying to focus on. it >> you are. because you are implying that this is about palestinian statehood, and in fact, it is potentially quite the opposite. >> can i finish my sentence? >> will you answer the question, sir? >> i am answering your question. we gave the palestinians a full palestinian state in gaza. we handed the keys over to mahmoud abbas, the very same mahmoud abbas you are talking about. they could have turned that

into a singapore, into a beautiful country. there was no siege, no blockade, no nothing. we pulled out all of the soldiers. but they chose, instead of building their own state, to apply terror. to go and rape women, to be had children, to burn a whole families. we still have -- we have 230 hostages being held by them. >> let's just be clear. when that happened -- >> this is about a palestinians desire [inaudible] >> mr. bennett, can we have a conversation please? i do enjoy talking to you. i really want to have a meaningful conversation. what you say that what happened in gaza was not, the land that was handed over to the palestinian authority, mahmoud abbas, they are not in charge of gaza right now. what happened on october 7th was not the palestinian authority. you will agree with me on that, right? >> no. you're missing the point. he over to mahmoud abbas, but

he couldn't hold the control, and hamas took over because of popular support. so, are you now expecting us to redo that challenge and have another massive butchery of jews? this time, in central israel? >> so the answer to my question, you are saying that it is your position that there will not be a two-state solution, that the palestinians will not get a state, and that with secretary of state said is not a reality that you said is possible. >> talk about a third state, because there we have turned the source to a base of butchery. so if your question is, do israelis now want to provide the palestinians yet another state treads again, this time in the tel aviv area, the resounding answer, not of my answer, this is wall-to-wall. you are not going to find many israelis, or any, for that matter who think that now it's a good idea to create another

savagery butcher state. >> there are actually a lot of people, not everybody, a lot of israelis don't share that view, and a lot of palestinians or share that view. but the united states still holds the view that a two state solution is the viable outcome. you've never held to that, you don't believe. so whatever happened on october, seventh before october 7th, you did not believe that. and obviously, today, you believe it less. >> what i've seen, from my experience, and we're all israelis have seen, and many did support palestinian state. we've all noticed something. that when we give them land, they turn it into a base of terror. now we tried it once in gaza, we tried a second time in some area. and in both cases, we got over thousand israelis killed. back in the second intifada by suicide bombs now by rape, butchery, of hamas and unfortunately, also, roughly 1000 palestinian civilians from gaza that also participated in

this program. it is a hard reality that i wish that weren't the case. but it is. and we have to face reality. i want to tell, you ali, that if we don't stem radical islamic terror now on our border, you are going to get it here in new york, california, and it happened in 9/11, it'll happen if we don't win. so i think it is everyone's interest to prevent this from happening in new jersey. >> tell me what if we don't win looks like. what does winning look like. in other words, there's no question that the idf did t.j. has the ability to do whatever it is that you can end up doing in gaza. nobody does that. here's the question. what does winning look like? once hamas is beaten, what happens next? >> well, we want to see all the hamas terrorists either killed or expelled from gaza to other places. and all our 230, 35 hostages

released. then, we can create some civil administration there, we have no territorial claim for gaza, because this is not about a territorial claim. contrary to what you had inferred before, it is not about a palestinian state. israel does not want the land there. we've got no claims. so we are going to have to eradicate every remnant of hamas, and then, we'll be able to establish something new. >> okay, as a person who was the prime minister for 12 months in israel, maybe you will be again, who knows. let's talk about that. you have contended for it there is no viable negotiating partner on the other side. it is widely acknowledged, and i think you and i might agree on one thing this morning and that is that over the years, israel bolstered hamas as a means to sideline moderate palestinian leaders. in 2019, audit reported that netanyahu reportedly said to his party anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a

palestinian strip has to support bolstering hamas. this is part of our strategy. to isolate the palestinians in gaza, from the palestinians in the west bank. a more recent document from the israeli military of intelligence that was published by plus 972 magazine, just a couple days ago, emphasize this further. that the palestinian authority assumed control of gaza would be the worst possible outcome, because it would remove one of, the quote, central obstacles preventing the establishment of a palestinian state. so what happens then? who do you talk to? it is not the plo, not the palestinian authority. to whom to discuss the civil administration of gaza? >> it will be a bit like after the american victory on japan and germany. there will be a transitory period of some civil administration, until we can allow them to create a viable leadership from within. i just want to point out, again, because somehow, you seem to not acknowledge this. in 2006, we handed gaza over to

the plo, to mahmoud abbas, that you are now inferring that he is a viable partner. but he then lost it to hamas. >> don't put words in my mouth, sir. don't put words in my mouth like you to want me to put words in your mouth. this, morning in, meeting with secretary blinken, he has ordered the palestinian authority is the sole, legitimate government of the palestinian people. that is his words, not mine. i put that back to you. >> okay. and on that, we have a disagreement. because for me once, shame on you, for me twice, shame on me. we cannot gamble the security of israelis again. right now, there is roughly ten, 15 babies, held hostage by hamas. as we speak right now, -- she is four years old. she saw her parents butchered in front of her eyes, and her brother and sister were hiding in a cupboard.

she is now alone, held hostage by hamas in some tunnel. we are talking about the worst savagery. these are not militants. this is not a legitimate entity. this is the worst, unfathomable barbarism that we can imagine. and we have to only do one thing. get the hostages home by defeating them. >> yeah. i mean, the imagery, the stories that came out of october 7th. the children, the women, the elderly. it has had an effect on the israeli psyche. what happens with that? >> it has. this is a real trauma. ali, imagine your own daughter being kidnapped, and god forbid worse, raped, and kidnapped, and then i spoke to one of the rescue people. he>> he came into a house in one of the key putin, and found an eight-year-old girl whose arm

was severed, and she lost blood, and he was too late. she was breathing her last breaths of horror. this is something that we can and never let happen again. we have a full terror state on our border. we cannot allow this al-qaeda, if you will, continue. we are going to continue. we do expect our friends in the united states of america to not apply pressure on us, to stop before we get the job done. before we eliminate hamas. >> we've covered a lot of bad things, i've covered all the school shootings in the united states, i've rarely seen anything as bad as i saw on october 7th. and you're right, when you see those images, you do think of your own children, your family, my jewish family. do you think of the palestinian kids? >> i do. i think that the only way to end the misery of everyone is

to eliminate hamas. if this war ends with hamas standing on its feet, the misery of both sides will continue. there is no way to end this horrible cycle without eliminating hamas. not unlike world war ii, where we had to eliminate the naughty regime, even though it involved a lot of pain on the germans side. there were no hesitations there, because this regime is just a horrible, murderous regime, that is killing its own. >> but do you see a way in achieving the change of regime without making the cauldron that boiled over boil over again? there was no palestinian in gaza who is going to feel better about israeli neighbors after the civilian deaths that we've seen. read about 10,000 today. i'm not asking, i don't know what the solution is, if i knew, i would suggest to you. i don't know. but is there a way in which you

can achieve the goals that you are talking about today, and whatever vengeance and retribution needs to be had for october 7th or justice with out 10,000 palestinians being dead? >> it's hamas was killing its own people, by hiding them in tunnels. >> that's not entirely true. >> it is entirely true because if you place your rockets in schools, in homes, and you use human shields, you effectively are killing your own people. so it is not only genocide against israelis, it is self genocide. >> okay, you know that we've spoken on war crimes, people who tell us, that is not how it works with that. mr. bennett, i know that margaret is not subscribe to the icc's what, might not be relevant to you, but that is actually not a globally interpreted, legal interpretation of war crimes. >> that's a fact. >> you can't heal people and it's a hamas is killing them. you can see hamas put them in a position where. they're being killed, but the

moment, it is israeli rockets and attacks and bombs and cluster ammunitions that are killing them. right? we can debate the fine points of this, but there was a way to not do this. do you agree? >> no. i profoundly disagree. because this will go on forever until we eliminate hamas. right now, they sometimes are even shooting at the humanitarian corridors to prevent their own people from escaping harm's way. but israel is bending over backwards to allow as many gaza civilians to move away from harm's way in northern gaza, which is a fate of operation. we are doing everything according to international law. everything, more than expected, more than america ever did in world war ii, or in afghanistan, or an iraq. we are doing everything. but, enough is enough. and if we want this to end, we have to go away with this al-qaeda stay on our border.

imagine 9:11 and a day later, al-qaeda wasn't in afghanistan but in mexico. what would america do? >> naftali bennett, we have more talk about, thank you for taking the time to have a conversation with me this morning, i hope we can continue it. >> thank. you >> know taliban is the former premise of israel. we will be right back. ack. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ ) right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes.

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right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> last weekend, i shared part of an interview that i did in 2019 with a young entrepreneur, while i was on assignment in gaza for nbc news. her name is -- she founded a solar energy company that aims to soft in the impact of the ongoing electricity crisis in gaza, that long predates the current war. she explained me how the regions lack of constant electricity routinely hampers daily life in gaza. >> what's the electricity problem here, for people who don't know? >> people say that gaza since

2006 has been suffering from all an electrical crisis. we enjoy only 3 to 6 hours of -- so i'm sarcastic pricing enjoying. i wake up in the morning, i have to plan for having a shower in advance. other than that, i will not find hot water. so i have a friend, she's gazan but she was born in the states, she came here to visit her family and the first message he said to me was there's not enough water to have a shower. so this is a fact, and i used to wake up in the morning, i didn't charge my phone from last night, my laptop is in charge, if not i have to go to a coffee shop where i can charge it and work. it becomes part of our life. people start to adapt their life around it. but this is not the right thing to do. people should keep fighting for having 24 hours. so some people feel happy with ten hours of electricity per day, but that shouldn't make them happy. what should make them happy is having 24 hours, because it's a right. >> as i told you last week, my

team and i had tried to get in touch with her, to confirm that she was safe before we aired the longer cut of that interview last sunday. we were not able to reach her at the time. but she did contact me this week. she told me that she is outside of gaza, and she is safe. but her entire family is still trapped inside gaza, trying to survive amid the chaos. we wish her and her family the best, and hope that they remain safe and out of harm's way. we'll be right back. out of harm's way we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ok. ♪ from christmas tree mats... to floorliners... cargo liners.... no drill mud flaps... seat protectors... and more... weathertech has the perfect holiday gift. honey, is everything ok? oh yeah. order at weathertech.com and don't forget weathertech gift cards. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours.

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right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> welcome back.

for those of you who are watching my conversation with a former israeli prime minister, i just wanted to give you a little piece of information. i quoted something that benjamin netanyahu had said about empowering hamas in order to fight the -- to isolate the palestinians in gaza from the palestinians in the west bank, the quote was correct. our graphic did say that it was -- . which was what we said in our words, but i want to be fair to former prime minister, those were not his words, those were benjamin netanyahu's words. we've got a lot to unpack this morning, and i'm joined here on set by the perfect person with whom to help unpack it all. ben rhodes is a former obama administration speech writer and former deputy national security adviser. during his time in the obama administration, amid many other important things, he helped negotiate the iran nuclear deal. we'll be right after this break and we'll talk with him then. and we'll talk with him then and we'll talk with him then

but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> united states continues to

believe that the viable path is a two state solution. with israelis and palestinians each exercising the legitimate right to live in the state with equal measures of security, freedom, opportunity, of dignity. >> that was secretary of state lincoln yesterday in amman, jordan, as he continues to lobby for humanitarian pause.

it is clear that he is keeping an eye on the days, months, and year after the war. this, morning he made an unexpected stop in the west bank, where he met with the palestinian, president mahmoud abbas, in which he reiterated americas position that american is committed to a two state solution in the middle east. ben rhodes joining me now, he is the author of the book, after the fall, the rise of authoritarianism in the world we've made, ben, there is so much here. and i'm trying to find little bits of hope. little opportunities to say that this will get better. we are about to cross 10,000 dead, probably, and hamas, we can confirm those numbers in gaza. but, blinken going in and kind of reiterating that america has a position on this, on one, hand makes me feel hopeful. on the other hand, there is nobody who really stands up for the two state solution anymore. >> yeah. there is not a lot of hope, early. when i look at the short term,

i feel a great amount of trepidation for the palestinians who are dying by the hundreds, by the day, if not the week. for the risks of regional escalation. for the sk of the west bank exploding. and i think one of the regions that antony blinken went to the west bank is because they're very worried about what's happening there. you have settler violence that is taking place, and the west bank sets on fire, that expenses were further. i do think that tony blinken is trying to do is look to an aspirational horizon and say that there's a place where the skin ended a two state solution. what i will say is that those words are not nearly enough. people have said those words for years. >> i said those words when i wasn't government. >> i'm sure you meant it when i said it. i deeply meant it. >> we took some risks in the obama years, but what needs to change, is first of, all the palestinians have been cut out of the process of normalization in the arab world. the abraham accords cut the man of the deal, explicitly, it was israel saying we're gonna

normalize relations with stricter governments and cut the palestinians out of it. the arab government said that too. that made the palestinians feel more isolated and desperate. the same time, with the expansion of the israeli settlements in the west bank, which had to be obviously the main character of any palestinian state. and now seems impossible there is enough territory, even for a palestinian state with existing settlements. what needs to happen is a change in this paradigm, where the arab states are willing to significantly invest in a different palestinian leadership. a different palestinian society, that can build back up from what is going to be a lot of rubble. and they cannot do that unless the united states is pressing them to, unless israel allows them to. >> what does that look, like because i had this conversation with naftali bennett, and the danger in all these debates and discussions is the conflation of hamas with palestinians. the palestinian authority, doesn't like hamas, they don't believe that hamas has a legitimate government of gaza. whether that is true or not, hamas did win in election there once, and that has not had an election since. we know that the israelis undermine the plo as a

negotiating partner, but now what? to whom do you talk? the trump administration wanted us all to have the abraham accords were some kind of a peace deal. they weren't. they did involve the palestinians. so who you talk to? to represent the palestinians? >> first of all. let's be clear. there are huge promise of palestinian leadership. hamas, a terrorist organization, as a terrorist organization, that preys upon the idea of palestinian desperation, they want things to be as bad as possible. they are looking at this, now they are losing a lot of people. but they also know a generation is likely being radicalized. that is how we went from al-qaeda to i.s.i.s.. you can kill a lot of terrorists, and they can be replaced, even for the radicalization. the palestinian authority is corrupt, they've been weakened for years, they've been humiliated from within their -- >> and often cases, not trust by their on people. . >> not. trusted so, to answer your question, there is a very capable palestinian civil society. you have interviewed some of them. there are doctors, lawyers,

there are social entrepreneurs, there are people with extraordinary talent. not just in the palestinian diaspora, in the west bank, and in gaza. if they were allowed, and given the resources to try to develop an alternative leadership that is committed to peace and coexistence, that is represented sting the people, it is not for a lack of people i think one step forward. i think it's just that they've been kept down by their own leadership to be clear, and frankly will be comfortable getting a corrupt reluctantly tomas sitting in the west bank in ramallah, 87 years old, not really delivering anything, and by having hamas, a terrorist threat in gaza, as you played in the clip, that was useful foil in some ways. >> can we play a role in that? can america play a role in saying, there are people who can emerge as a viable palestinian leadership for the palestinian people, with whom negotiations can take place that involve america, and involved israel, and involve perhaps arab and muslim state partners. is that something that america

can have its eye on? >> i think we should, and again, you need those resources from the arab world, they have a lot of resources on the gulf, ali. you need israel to be open to a difference palestinian leadership? america has to coax that. but it takes diplomacy. takes talking to people who don't normally talk to. it takes being creative. and not just akin to talking points like, we are for a two state solution, to state for two peoples, as the whole world is watching that disappear before our eyes. >> can it happen with netanyahu in charge? >> no. absolutely not. that is something that we learned in the years of the obama administration. we had two major pushes for peace, we had real proposals developed, he was not serious about peace. frankly, i think he's lost the confidence of the israeli people. largely because his whole message was, i may not be delivering, peacetime delivering security. >> right. and now the palestinian people don't feel as though that payoff. >> thank you for analysis as full-time. it is really necessary. this is a complicated issue, for those who think it is not, it just is. ben rhodes is the former deputy

national security adviser during the obama administration, he is the co-host of pod save the world, a podcast an msnbc political contributor. that does it for me, thank you for watching, catch me back here next saturday and sunday morning from 10 am to noon eastern. and on wednesday night, be sure to tune in for msnbc's coverage after the third republican debate. rachel maddow leads our coverage and analysis of the events starting at ten pm eastern. up, next my friend jen psaki is joined by the former georgia candidate for governor. stacey abrams. go nowhere,, inside with jen psaki, begins right now. >> house republicans are in chaos. and the former president is preparing to take the stand. i'm going to discuss all of that, plus brand new polling on the presidential race, with the k chair of the congressional caucus, congresswoman -- plus, his two adult sons testified in new york last week, and donald trump himself will be under oath in