applaud his refusal to commit a crime. i applaud his refusal to overturn an election that was rightfully conducted. that does not create a hero, doing your job is the expectation we should have. one of the challenges of the last eight years has been lowering of our threshold for what we expect of public officials. it is insufficient that you are lauded for simply doing their job you are required to do. then you get to erase the bad you continue to do. >> not committing crimes does not make you a hero. our bar for affected officials has to be higher than number, minimum we can expect more and we have to expect more. that hi rachel and welcome back. >> thank you very much, jen, that was fantastic. i had an event with stacy abrams in my book tour before i

had to cancel everything for getting covid and she is so freaking impressive every time i speak with her, i can't stand it. >> i just kept thinking about what she said, the lowering of the our of elected officials. we need to raise the bar. it should be there making people's lives better, not just that they are not breaking the law. >> and to be clear eyed about what this is, what public service is and what heroism is, and these two things don't go hand in hand. she's a very very smart person and i'm looking forward to her being act in office at some point. >> she has not ruled that out. politics is in her blood, that's what she said. >> thanks. >> thanks for joining us, i do apologize for not being here in this chair this time last week, i was out sick, i finally got

covid, i think i'm one of the last people in the country who have never had it before but i finally tested positive for weekend a half ago. i'm vaccinated so i think that helped make it an easier bout. i rested up, isolated, i took a five day course of plex -- paxlovid which honestly is kind of gross while you are taking it. in my opinion, totally worth it. it's only five days of pills. by the end of the five days i had no fever, totally reduced symptoms and most importantly, i was testing negative and not a risk to other people. i also had to cancel and reschedule the remaining book tour events for my book, prequel. prequel debuted at number 1 on the new york times bestseller list which means a significant chunk of the reading population

of america is reading about americans fighting homegrown fascism right now in thisok which is absolutely fantastic. relyexcited with how well the book has done. i'll be back out book touring as of this weekend in new york city with chris hayes and neck sweet i'll be in noah fant's, massachusetts and boulder, colorado and on the 28th you can see me in tulsa, oklahoma and also be on late night with seth myers tomorrow, on the cbs morning show wednesday, so everything had to get canceled for a while and that's why i was gone. lots going on, thank you, science. thank you covid vaccines. happy to be back. and i will say i'm particularly grateful to be back on my feet in time for election day. this is 2023 obviously, an odd numbered year, that means we are not having national federal elections this year but the elections that we are having this year, tomorrow are more fascinating, more surprising

then your usual off year affair. surprising, in a sense that i mean, depending on where you look, one of the races that might actually be contested tomorrow, that might actually be close, is the governor's race in mississippi. seriously. i mean, mississippi hasn't voted for a democrat for president since i was three years old. i am now 50 years old. it has been 24 years since the democrat was elected governor of mississippi but nevertheless, believe it, democrat brandon presley is in the running for that states governor's election tomorrow. brandon presley, he has the famous last name. elvis presley was in fact his second cousin or cousin once removed or something but his story is much more relatable than that distant celebrity

relation. brandon presley was raised by a single mom. his mom worked in the garment factory, his father was murdered when he was eight years old. brandon -- brandon's family was poor enough that they had they had their water cut off because they couldn't afford to pay. mr. presley is campaigning in mississippi saying that it's ridiculous given the economics in mississippi that that state has the highest tax on groceries in the whole country, so he wants to get rid of that. obviously that's a popular position. mississippi also has really unaffordable healthcare, lots of people who are uninsured. he says he will get people insurance in huge numbers by expanding medicaid, which is financially a very big deal for the state and would get hundreds of thousands of people insurance in mississippi. so, with popular positions like that with a compelling personal story that he's got, brandon presley is running against the republican incumbent tate reeves who is one of the most

unpopular in the state. it's this ongoing corruption scandal in mississippi. you may have heard about this over the last years, it was 2021 the state auditor announced that $77 million in federal funds had mysteriously gone walking's in mississippi and it was diverted into huge speaking fees for politicians and people connected to the state administration, also a bunch of money was diverted into a weird pet project for brett favre the retired nfl quarterback from mississippi, this was supposed to be federal welfare funds? tate reeves was lieutenant governor of the state of mississippi when all of that happened. happened during his administration. he's governor now. since the scandal broke, seven people have pled guilty to bribery and fraud and conspiracy charges. the guy who was the head of the state department of human resources under reeves was

sentenced to decades in prison for the scandal. now, tate reeves himself has not been charged in this case but the federal investigation, in a case that has already put one person in prison for decades, the federal investigation is an ongoing thing. so yes, mississippi it's mississippi, and it very much appears to be a red state but this democrat presley is making a real run for the governorship tomorrow and tomorrow, we shall see. the fact that it's not a slamdunk for the republicans and it's considered to be a leans republican race, considered to be a case where at least a democrat at least has a shot of forcing a runoff is just a remarkablething. also, kentucky. you think mississippi is red, for perspective, look at this. mississippi went for donald trump in 2020 by 16 points.

kentucky went for donald trump in 2020 not by 16 points but 26 points. wow. still, though, the year before that in 2019, kentucky elected a democrat for governor andy bashir, and he is up for reelection tomorrow in kentucky. and again this is a super super red state by some metrics but democrat andy bashir won the governorship in 2019 and he has run a solid campaign for reelection and there's a dynamic at work that is i think, it may be hard to overestimate if the issue in kentucky of abortion rights. republicans control the state legislature in kentucky. when conservatives on the us supreme court overturned roe, kentucky is one of the states that got what is effectively a complete and total ban on abortion a majority of the

kentucky residents voted in favor of abortion rights in a statewide referendum but the republicans in the legislature nevertheless imposed this total ban. and it is a total ban, in kentucky, you are only allowed to get an abortion if not getting an abortion will kill you. permanently disable you. other than that, no exceptions, the governor -- government will force you to give birth against your well even if you are under age, pregnant because you were raped, this is the existing ban, this is the existing law that is in effect in kentucky. and polling by the beshear campaign shows that support for the total abortion ban, that's an effect at the state right now, is at 12%. only 12% of people in the entire state actually approve of the total abortion ban that the republican legislature has imposed there. the republican nominee for

governor, daniel cameron, he's defended the ban in court, he said he supports it. and that has led to this point in the governor's race in kentucky. i will show you this ad here. i will show this to you in full because this is one of the most effective, most memorable most sort of, stop you in your tracks 32nd long political ads i have seen in a very long time. i will warn you, this is very intense, it is very personal but as i say, it's 30 seconds long and i think you will see immediately why this is perceived to have had such a big affect on voters in kentucky heading into this governor's election tomorrow. >> i was raped by my stepfather after years of sexual abuse. i was 12. anyone who believes there should be no exceptions for rape and incest could never

understand what it's like to stand in my shoes. this is to you, daniel cameron, to tell a 12-year-old girl she must have the baby of her stepfather, who raped her is unthinkable. i'm speaking out because women and girls need to have options. daniel cameron would give us none. >> daniel cameron is again the republican candidate for governor in kentucky. he has defended the total abortion ban that's in effect in that state. the band does force girls and women impregnated by rape to give birth against their will. again according to internal polling from the beshear campaign , only 12% of kentuckians say they are in favor of that abortion ban but republicans in the state legislature in, and posted, that is why estate -- they are looking at a tie game heading into the polls, the last pole heading into tomorrow's vote is

literally, recent percent 47%, as the state decides tomorrow, in kentucky, whether or not to reelect their democratic governor whose against the ban or to instead elect republican daniel cameron, who is for it. tomorrow, election day, abortion rights will also be on the ballot directly in the great state of ohio. you everhere there has been a statewide vote on abortion rights since the conservatives onthe supreme court overturned roe, everywhere people anhad the chance to vote for or against abortion rights, in kentucky, montana, kansas, michigan, everywhere, people have voted for abortion rights. an ohio is going to have that vote tomorrow, in ohio, republicans there have passed and almost complete ban the so- called seeks -- six week ban and it's been tied up in corbett in the meantime, republicans are pretty sure they are going to lose a statewide ohio vote tomorrow. ohio voters are expected to vote to enshrine abortion rights in the state's

constitution, which would effectively, block the republican abortion ban. republicans have done everything possible to try to forestall that eventuality. they tried to change the threshold number of votes that you need to be able to add something to the constitution. they quietly canceled the voter registrations of 26,000 people in ohio, right before the deadline to be registered to vote for tomorrow's election. they changed the language that people will actually see on their ballots when they turn out to vote so instead of seeing the real language of the real proposed constitutional amendment, republicans rephrased it, they rewrote it, and antiabortion language to make it sound as bad as possible. despite all their shenanigans, ohio voters appear to be as fired up on this as voters have been in all the other states where this has been put to a vote since the conservatives

overturned roe federally. kansas, montana, california, vermont, michigan, all of the states where people have been asked about abortion rights since the supreme court overturned roe, every single one of those states, people have sided with abortion rights in considerable numbers. ohio is going to be the next state to make such a decision tomorrow. republicans have decided to play as many tricks as they can, use as much anti-michigan as they can to try and trick people and we shall see. it is also going to be worth tomorrow watching the result in virginia. in virginia, if the state legislature that is at. control of the state legislature, which currently is divided between the two parties. but there, once again it's a republican administration state government that's in charge of administering the election, and in virginia, just like in ohio, the republican controlled state government has admitted to

purging thousands of people off the voter rolls, right before the election. in virginia, it's republican governor youngkin's administration that admits canceling thousands of people's voter registrations in virginia. even though those people were legally registered to vote. and even though, the youngkin administration purged them off the voter rolls so close to the election, that early voting had already started. it's a dirty trick but they do it everywhere they can. there's been a lot of quiet murmuring, a lot of political gossip that if republicans in virginia do well tomorrow in these legislative races, if they do well and they get control or super majority control in virginia, then republican governor glenn youngkin will try and claim credit for that by hook or by crook, do what you have to, the republican gossip is that youngkin if the results go his

way tomorrow, he will try to use momentum from tomorrow's election result in virginia to launch himself into the republican presidential contest as a late entrant to try and beat donald trump for the republican nomination. again, this is gossip, and it is november already, and it seems wildly impossible that somebody would jump in now and take the lead in the race. but i'll tell you, there has been chatter about this in republican circles for weeks. so, watch virginia's results tomorrow, make up it what you will. as we head into election day tomorrow, and all these individual states, it's always interesting in an off year race, you will see there is a special congressional election in rhode island, and there's elections in new jersey and virginia and statewide referendum in ohio, all these interesting one-off things but they do all give you some national information. and as we head into tomorrow's off year elections and all these individual states, and as we hit one year from the

national presidential election next year, you do see these two things intercepting with each other, right, affecting each other, these individual contests in the states and what's going on in national politics. these things do sort of interweave, i mean maybe the virginia results tomorrow might affect whether or not we get another republican governor jumping into the meatgrinder of the republican presidential primary where donald trump is currently ahead of his leading challenger by an average of 40+ points. maybe that will happen because of tomorrow's legislative election results in virginia. maybe it is not help ultimately for the prohibitive favor for donald trump to have put three of the justices on the supreme court who provided the three new votes to overturn roe versus wade, given how wildly unpopular the decision has been with the american people in conservative states and liberal states and every state across

the country. maybe it really does not help for republicans in congress to have elevated to speaker of the house, the cosponsor of the national federal total abortion ban, maybe that is not help in these individual contests, maybe in mississippi where governor reeves has not been criminally charged in the corruption case but seven other people associated with that scandal and his administration have been and the federal investigation is ongoing. maybe it is not help tate reeves in mississippi tomorrow to have that corruption case looming over him as governor. we also have the likely republican nominee on trial facing 91 felony counts. donald trump, you may have heard, today, took the stand as a witness in the quarter billion dollars civil trial in which he and his business are accused of years of massive financial fraud. his testimony was chaotic and rambling by all accounts, legal

observers broadly said his testimony likely undercut his own lawyer's defense strategy in terms of the provable allegations in this case and the amount of distance his lawyers have been trying to put between him and the financial statements that are at issue in this fraud case. but you know, the chaotic, insulting, non sequitur character of his testimony today, may not help with the sort of black letter law of the civil fraud case studies facing but it does have a larger point for him. chaotic, rambling, non sequitur, out of control, insulting, sort of unprofessional, inappropriate testimony, may not help with his case. but it does make a mockery of the legal system. it does implicitly at least, and explicitly, according to some of his testimony today show that he is trying to denigrate

and digital in -- g, but the whole legal system, the whole court system. that does appear to be his larger goal. and it makes sense, right, when you're legal troubles include a couple of huge civil cases, and 91 felony criminal counts against you, one way to fight that is to fight each of the civil suits and each of the 91 felony charges on the substance, the easier path, more efficient is just to run against the legal system. to tell your followers the american legal system of justice and law enforcement and the judiciary and the court, it's all illegitimate. and your followers should see it as illegitimate, too. tell your followers you don't intend to follow the rules of the legal system and they shouldn't either. delegitimizing the legal system, and trying to discredit the independent judiciary is of course the most important step

towards dissolving the legal system or trying to turn it into something unrecognizable in a democracy. we are going to talk with washington post reporter devlin barrett about his new reporting about the planning that's underway on the right for what to do to the u.s. legal system if trump or another republican is elected president next year. truly chilling reporting. we are going to have devlin live this hour. you might have seen, the big political news in the last 48 hours, the new york times polling that came out this weekend about the presidential race and the headline was that president biden's reelection effort looks like it's in trouble. trump is ahead of biden in a hypothetical matchup in five of six so-called battleground states. interestingly, though, even in that poll, those results flip when people are asked about a

potential conviction for trump in any of the felonies he's charged with. in the same pole, all six of those six swing states would go for biden if trump is convicted on any count in any of his trials. so we will see. but you see how central this is to trump's effort to try to get back into the white house. it's a chicken and egg thing in terms of why he wants to get there. and what convictions have to be seen as by his followers but you see why his effort is to try to not necessarily beat all of these charges, and all of these civil suits, it's to say that the legal system doesn't matter and it isn't in power, and the legal system doesn't need to be obeyed. here's one last point, though, one last poll number that i think isn't getting the attention that it should particularly from the pundit class. it's this number.

71%. 71% support. americans have a favorable view of labor unions by a huge margin right now. 71% support, that's higheran at any time in my lifetime, higher than any time since the 1960s. and unions have had this great success within the past year. ups workers who are part of the teamsters, academic workers, tens of thousands of healthcare workers at kaiser, airline pilots, the writers guild and hollywood, all of these big organized labor successes in the past 12 months. and now of course, the uaw, united auto workers, a six-week strike against the big three automakers has brought agreements for what are being called record contracts, a 25%

pay raise for autoworkers over 4 1/2 years, factory work at a detroit automaker, 40 hours a week, $84,000 a year. plus cost-of-living adjustments guaranteed as a protection against inflation. these are all tentative agreements for the big three automakers, uaw locals have to ratify the results but the terms, the union won in this strike are so favorable that when they were announced, toyota, which isn't union, unexpectedly announced a surprise increase in its own wages, for its own nonunion employees, presumably to try to preempt them all wanting to join the union now to get the same kind of deal that uaw was just able to get for its members at fort, mgm and stilettos. the uaw strike was audacious, it was pushy, it was a huge success. uaw's president sean fain said if the automakers have record profits, what they do, then we should have record contracts,

and now, they do. just watch this. you can tell from the way their messaging on this from the very beginning of this strike, you can tell that part of the wind in their sales here is that they know the kind of support they have from the american public. >> we have nothing to fear. i look around here, i see power. i see faith and i see a working class that is fed up and fired up. i see working-class people from all walks of life, standing together. you all know what we need to do. and now the whole world knows what we need to do. when they tell us to sit down, we stand up. >> that point, we stand up, it's a rallying cry and a technical point which i will explain in a moment. you may have recognized some democratic politicians in that

footage, senator sanders here, congressman dingell, came jeffries, this was put out before the leader of the democratic party, the sitting president of the united states made history by being the first sitting president in the history of the united states to join union workers on the picket line. first time that'sev happened in american history. president bidemade history that way. in the midst of this strike while his likely opponent next year, donald trump, instead went out and said e uaw was selling autoworkers downthe tubes, he said to uaw members, quote, i don't think you are picketing for the right thing. he said members of the uaw should stop paying their dues. this was his contribution and then the uaw got record contracts from all three detroit automakers, with massive support from the american people.

they sickly the whole country cheering them on, with president biden making history to step out and support them in a way no president has done before and then they won, bigger than anyone thought they could, and the supposedly fatally polarized country where we can't agree on anything, the country all basically agrees on this. they did it. the head of the uaw joins us live here, next. try for under $5! as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+

folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution.

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it was called the sitdown

strike, people who work at a gm plant in michigan stopped working and sat down. they weren't picketing, they sat down inside the factory and wouldn't leave. they slept on car cushions, they ate food that was passed to them through factory window from their friends and supporters, they basically occupied the plant by sitting. sitdown strikes have been used in europe, it was a fairly new strategy in the u.s. this one, the 1936 one in flynn was the work of the very very new united auto workers, and the idea was that by sitting down while striking incident picketing outside the plant, the workers weren't only withholding their own labor, they are also making it impossible for anybody to come in and take their case. this was a radical thing, and they stuck it out, they stayed when the heat got cut off, in 16 degree weather, they stayed

when police tear gassed the plant to try and get them out. these guys stayed for 44 days, and they will, they got pay raises, new safety matches and for the first time ever they got a major u.s. car company to recognize the united auto workers as a union. it worked. today in our time, the united auto workers has again taken on the auto industry with another new tactic, not with a sitdown strike like 1936 but what they called this year a standup strike, instead of having all their members strike everywhere in every factory all at once which it previously had done, this time they picked individual plants to strike and they did it by surprise while they were continuing negotiations with the car companies.

for 46 days the union would tell workers at specific plants hours ahead of time, okay, now you, you stand up and walk off the job at that specific plant and the next day the standup strike would happen somewhere else. this was a new strategy, and it had an important and interestingly balanced impact, these rolling localized surprise disruptions at these plans, yes they put the fear of god into the automakers but they didn't create the kind of nationwide shortage of new cars and trucks that would probably quickly alienate the public. sitdown strike was an innovation in 36, the standup strike was an innovation in 2023. it worked. uaw has just won tentative agreements for vastly improved contracts with three of the country's biggest automakers, the fight was led by uaw president shawn fain. >> we may get fired up but we are disciplined. and we may get rowdy, but we are organized. not everything is about pulling out the bazooka. we've been very careful about how we escalate this strike, and we have designed this

strategy to increase pressure on the companies not to hurt them for its own sake but to move them, to get them to say yes, when they want to say no. >> joining us now is shawn fain, president of the united auto workers. congratulations of the success for the negotiations and thank you for being with us tonight. >> let me ask if i've described the strategy here correctly, describing it correctly as an innovation and did i get it right in terms of the way it was designed to calibrate the effect you were looking for? >> basically it was harnessing the power of the membership think about this, i've only been in office for seven months, so in short order, we had to do everything we can do

to be prepared for bargaining, we ran for the first time in our history, a contract campaign, to get our membership repaired so in the event we had to take action, they would know why they are out there and what we are fighting for. and you know the next step was you know, we did a lot of, for the first time, unprecedented in this union was our transparency and communication, doing facebook lives, weekly, communicating with the members, keeping them updated as to what was going on, you know, seeing our members hold rallies and just do action leading up to this. it gave us immense power at the bargaining table and the company saw we had a unified union, in the past, there was always, you know, two sets of people, the membership on the floor and the leadership in detroit and it's not that way anymore. we are one unit, we are unified

and this is what happens when everyone gets together and are unified in their approach and we had great success. >> what do you think about how important it is that there's so much public support right now, for the union movement, for organized labor. over the course of my lifetime, we've seen wild fluctuations in the number of americans who are in organized labor, who are in unions themselves, you know the uaw at one point was 1.5 million people now it's closer to 400,000, we've seen big fluctuations but we've seen this huge amount of support right now in the public. how important was that to the success of these actions and to the way you are thinking about moving forward? >> i think it's very important and it's just a sign of the times. the last 40 years almost, working-class people have gone backwards continually, it has migrated and there's this massive chasm between the inner class and when those things get out of bounds and we need to turn it upside down, when 26 billionaires have as much wealth as half of humanity, that's a crisis, and it's our issue whether it's uaw, it's working-class issues whether

you are union or not, everyone identifies with what's going on right now. people in unions and people working-class people that aren't in unions, are literally scraping to get by, working seven days a week, multiple jobs, not to save money, just to scrape to get by, and so, it's time. i think it's way past time, and it's up to organized labor to leave the movement and i'm really proud of the work we've done, standing up for the working class, and we've already seen the fruits of that. we negotiated record contracts for the big three and within a week you saw toyota reduce their progression for years, for their employees and give them pay increases, we call that the uaw bump and that's what happens and when those people become members of the uaw they will get even more, so that's what this is about. >> let me ask you about that directly if you have anything you would like to say tonight here on television, to tesla,

honda, toyota and other nonunion car companies that are making cars in the united states. as you mentioned, toyota seems to have given the uaw bump to their non-uaw member workers presumably to try and present their workers doing the same. anything to say to those carmakers right now? >> i look at the migration of my grandparents back in the 30s and 40s from the south, coming out of the depression, they moved north to union jobs and it change their lives. and we are getting back to setting that standard now. so throughout this process, because of the energy that surround this campaign, literally, we've had daily, hundreds of workers from all over the south, all these nonunion companies reach out to us about organizing. they want a piece of this and that's the comparison i look at with my grandparents generation,

they saw a better way of life and we set the standard. now we are setting the standard again. people want to be a part of that. we are reaching out to members and we are in the process of planning our next step for organizing, we've revamped our department and we are locked and loaded and we are coming for them. you know, those workers at tesla, hyundai, nissan, they're no different than us, working- class people, we all have the same issues. we want to have a way where we can have a sustainable life, not just live to work but you know, work to have a good living, and it's too far gone the other way in the past, so i really believe we are going to have a lot of success and i believe those numbers will want to join the union and once they step aside from the scared tactics, when they see the benefit, there's no going back. >> i mentioned the very visible support that you got from president biden. it's historic for a historic president to have done that. have you had substantive support behind the scenes from president biden and his

administration and is this likely to lead to a uaw endorsement for president biden? >> as we said from the outset, our endorsements will be earned, not freely given and our membership right now, the focus right now is on the agreements and that's been our laser focus is on our contracts, so the membership right now, the focus is getting all the information they can about the contract and let them make that decision. we will address politics when it's time to do that. i will say this, there's a distinct difference in the two leading candidates, you know, for the first time in our history, a president visited the picket line. that says a lot. the other candidate chose to go to a nonunion factory that has nothing to do with the uaw or the members and so there's a distinct difference there and also, you know, the process of working through you know, there are things we were laughed at and mocked in our demands, for

saying we are crazy for asking for these things. one of the things was the ev battery working, we have a lot of success with that, and the secretary of labor and the u.s. trade ambassador, you know the white house, they worked with us on a lot of this and they worked with the company's also. so there's a lot of work that's been done and there's a lot of work to be done. but we are headed in the right direction. >> nobody is laughing now on what you are able to do. shawn fain, thank you for your time tonight, sir, congratulations on what you've done so far and i know these ratifications still need to happen. we would love to have you back, sir. >> it's an honor to be here, hv thank you. much more ahead tonight, stay aheawith us. with us

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doctor visits, emergency care, and more. if you have questions, we're here to help every step of the way. covered california. this way to health insurance. enroll by december 31 at coveredca.com. in late 2020, one way donald trump try to stay in power was by plotting with obscure appointee in the department of justice to try to use the department to overturn the presidential election results. from evidence cited in the federal criminal indictment of trump for his attempts to overturn the election, we know when that officiwas to that keeping trump in office using such means would likely set off riots across the united states. that official allegedly replied, quote, well that's why there's an insurrection act.

in other words, yahweh understand there will be riots but, that's not a problem because we will use the u.s. military against u.s. civilians. we will run this coup the old- fashioned way, we will have tanks in the streets, the u.s. army out there in american streets to play to use force against civilians. we will have the military install our guy in power using the military. and that is why jeffrey clark is no longer an obscure justice department appointee, now jeffrey clark is unindicted co-conspirator in the january 6th federal case against donald trump and also charged along with trump in the racketeering case in georgia in which both are accused of trying to overturn the election result in that state. all of that about jeff clark, we knew. what we did not know until now is that this plan is apparently not in the past. jeffrey clark is now according to the reporting from the washington post, still working on the insurrection act thing. still working on having trump

use the realtor, u.s. army, against u.s. civilians on american streets, starting day one of him retaking power next year. new report from the washington post, that story is next, stay with us.

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shocked but i found this legitimately shocking. quote donald trump and his allies are drafting plans to potentially invoke the insurrection act on his first day in office to allow him to deploy the military against civil demonstrations. quote dubbed project 2025, the group is developing a plan to include draft executive orders that would deploy the u.s. military to mystically under the insurrection act. the proposal was identified in internal discussions as an immediate priority. the guy leading the work on this plan under project 2025 is jeffrey clark, a trump justice official that proposed having doj endorse fake fraud claims to effectively tell the states they should ignore election results and keep trump in power. according to trump's federal indictment, he allegedly favored using the insurrection act back then, to use the u.s. military to keep trump in power. i should note that a spokesperson for the heritage

foundation which is organizing this project 2025 is denying the existence of this insurrection act plan. but it is part of this fairly shocking set of new reporting from josh and devlin. at the washington post. joining us now is devlin barrett. thanks for being here today. >> thanks for having me. >> in light of the heritage foundation tonight the insurrection act part of this reporting, i have to ask you if you stand by your reporting and what you make of that denial? >> absolutely. i mean, look, here's the weird dynamic that the insurrection act has played, not just this year but for a number of years now which is that starting around mid 2020, there were a lot of people who tried to convince trump to invoke the insurrection act, to put down protests against police, against his administration, any number of things that they

didn't like going on in the public square. so now what you have is a number of folks sort of mapping out what they would like a second trump administration to look like, and one of the things they would like to see is to use the insurrection act to put down any protest. let's face it, that's the fairly theoretical conversation at this point. there is no second trump administration yet, there is no set of public protests to put down but i think it says a lot about the way conservatives are talking about what a second trump administration would look like, that one of the things that's right on the table right away is the insurrection act. >> the timing and it being there right away is the part that really has stuck with me. if there aren't big civil demonstrations to put down, right, which is the theoretical justification for something like the insurrection act is your understanding that they are preparing these potential

actions, essentially, to invoke the insurrection act as soon as he's president so it's there as a proverbial loaded gun to use whenever he feels like it rather than expecting it to have to be reactive to something that they expect to be happening in the country. >> sure, but i think there's one word of caution here to understand which is, this is what some folks around trump and some folks who hope to be a part of this second trump administration would like to see happen. it doesn't necessarily mean that trump has adopted these things. he wants to do these things, i think one of the big conversations going on right now as we speak and this is a big part of what we were trying to report on and explain was that there's a lot of conservatives including conservative lawyers who are trying to argue out like what should their role, if any the,

in a second trump administration because increasingly it looks like he will be the nominee. so there are a lot of republicans who have to make choices right now and this is part of the discussion of those choices. >> the legal profession has choices to make, too, in terms of his own professional responsibilities. this is chilling and fascinating reporting. thanks for helping us understand. >> we will be right back. stay with us. all your financial together can help you make smarter decisions. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. it ain't my dad's razor, dad. ay watch it! it's from gillettelabs. this green bar releases trapped hairs from my face... gamechanga! ...while the flexdisc contours to it. so the five blades can get virtually every hair in one stroke. for the ultimate gillette shaving experience. the best a man can get is gillettelabs.

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presidential debate is this week, it is wednesday night. we will be here wednesday night for postdebate coverage. starting right after it is done at ten pm eastern. so i will see you there on wednesday night. of course, tomorrow e