>> -- it is saturday november 11th, we begin this hour with a jam-packed week in politics, and what it means for the months ahead. in just the last five days, the former president took the stand to testify in a trial that has laid waste to his creation myth of a self made billionaire. while most of the other republican presidential candidates took to the stage -- pardon me. for another debate. the voters took to the polls, and sent a very clear message. i have to get a quick sip of water. voters took to the polls, and set a very clear message, hands off my body, my, books and my

rights. on monday, donald trump was called to the stand to testify in a 250 million dollar civil fraud trial, that could break up his entire family's business empire. predictably, he was combative as a witness. he often gave long winded responses, and he avoided answering questions directly. instead, he took the opportunity to disparage laetitia james, the attorney general who brought the lawsuit, and arthur engoron, the judge presiding over the case who had ot punishment against the company. now on monday, angwin had asked the presidents attorneys to control their client while trump was on the stand. at one point, when asked about one of his properties, he declared, quote, i'm not a windmill person. interestingly, no one had asked him anything about windmills. during another line of questioning about his financial statements from 2020, one trump began to reply, quote, i was so busy in the white house with china, russia, and keeping the country safe, at which point

the lawyer from the attorney general office reminded him, quote, sir you are not the president in 2021. snap. trump's behavior even while under oath in court is hardly surprising. trump's erratic comments online, in court, and his rallies have taken a different tenure in the weeks since. this particular trial started. even though there are still four arguably more serious criminal trials coming up that threaten his actual freedom, the civil fraud case in new york threatens to destroy his livelihood. it also threatens to shatter public image of a wealthy self made businessman he has carefully created for himself for decades, even though many of his adventures have failed and he was forced to file for bankruptcy many times. to trump's credit, the persona he has created has gotten him far, all the way to the white house. it helped him to develop a loyal and devoted cultivate personality, which has helped him stay atop the presidential primary field. but tuesday's off-year election

results showed another surprisingly strong outing for democrats, signaling there are some key issues that are motivating voters across the country. the runaway success of a ballot measure to enshrine abortion rights in the ohio state constitution means that issue remains a major weakness for republicans. even though some of the -- sum on the right have also tried to stop the so-called culture wars recently, liberals and moderates have pushed back against it which resulted in big losses for candidates who are backed by the ultraconservative moms for liberty. they are the book banning people. these are the key issues donald trump hasn't really had to answer for, yet or stick out a firm position on the cycle. on abortion alone, trump has offered contradictory statements. he has counted the significant role that he played in his ability to, quote, kill roe v. wade. he has also said, the florida six-week abortion ban was quote, a terrible mistake, which

resulted in some pushback from antiabortion groups. trump was absent again for the third presidential debate on wednesday night in miami. he dodged another opportunity to answer some important policy questions. at some point, he will be forced to answer to the general public and face questions on a number of issues that will be determining factors in next year's very important elections. joining me now is former chairman of the republican national committee an msnbc political analyst. good to see you. you are a guy who said informing on the show before. i was hoping -- coughing fit at the, top you might go to -- and take care of the rest of it. >> we managed to get through. nice to see you. >> we said we were having on the, show some detroit and me and says is michael steele still a republican? >> yes, i am, because it takes the rest of them off. to just sit there and -- you can't get rid of them. >> right. exactly. you know, this is not --

this is another republican party that i enjoyed in 1976, so let's be clear about that. as i like to say, the donald, trump and all of the -- real rhinos, that is what he, is that is what they are. that is what micah is it. is not connected to anything related to the party. i was here first. so yes, deal with me. i think that is what the country is trying to stay right now. you have to deal with us at the ballot box. i am hoping that energy weather around abortion, whether around a broader question of democracy, whether it is about a school board race, that our citizens recognize the authoritarianism that is creeping up around their ankles, michael, while poison is fine. and if he grabs a hold of you, it will do severe damage. i think they recognize, or are beginning to recognize some of that. the new york times poll last

week, this week, rather notwithstanding, which is basically a sort of snapshot moment which is why i do not like to play it on national pulling this early out in an election. but in this case, you can see it as a snapshot warning. an indicator of just how voters are feeling. so for the biden folks, they need to focus on that. the need to recognize where their messaging as falling short. and why in those races like in beshear's race in kentucky, and the ohio constitutional matter, what -- is going to, why was there a disconnect? >> let me ask you this, because it is not -- americans views on abortions for instance have been relatively steady over the years. -- but abortion and abortion rights or two different things. right?

reading a book and the right of access to that book or two different things. so would you say the authoritarianism that is -- like a vine, what we are talking about is people including self-identified republicans and conservatives who say, they may not like abortion, they may not like some of these books that are out there. there's a distinction between me liking something, and giving the state the way to control it. >> absolutely. that is where this magra republicanism breaks with traditional republicanism because it does not recognize your individual right. it talks a lot of smack about, it and they try to get warm and fuzzy saying we are fighting for your right -- you just took away the right of women to make a choice for themselves. you just took away the right of my child to read a particular book because he wants to learn, or she wants to learn about that subject. so do not talk to me about the rights that you are fighting

for. what you are fighting for is a reimagining of america in your image, in your ideology. not a pure listed one in which all of us have a place in this room, where i can talk to ali velshi about an issue that ali and i disagree on, and not trample on his right to -- but b to teach me or expressed to me through first amendment rights, freedom of association, right, et cetera's views on a particular subject. >> and i would go one further, and there was a would be a great place in which that pluralism is regarded as something that we enjoy? that we can respect? we can love about this country, right? michael and i don't have to share views on a lot of things. but, we can break bread together, we can have a conversation on tv together. do you see any possibility of that phoenix arising out of these ashes? the idea there are some people,

because we know they exist as republicans, as democrats, people who say, we can just be better at all of this. everything doesn't have to be a fight to the death, everybody doesn't have to be in -- about everything. >> i do. i see it with the generation that is now emerging. when you look at congressman -- in florida, where you look where the agency are moving the political needle, they are not buying into this system. they are not taking at face value. they recognize my generation really screwed up at the and here. becoming very selfish, very -- not as pure listed, not as supportive as individual rights as we claim to be. certainly what republicans have found out on the abortion issue, there are a lot of republican women in kansas, ohio, who said back, off back off. so that emerging narrative is a

very important one, particular going into this election, because of how you set up this conversation. you have donald trump who is one of the worst names you can possibly have on our constitutional -- and the question for us, how do we prevent that stain from spreading, one. but then most importantly, how do we get it out? how do we take it out of the fabric of american pure listen, out of american independence, out of american views of rights and responsibilities. so i think we have a tall order in front of us. i don't think people should panic at this point. we should be very much aware of the vine that is creeping up around our ankles. >> the good news is, the american voters seem to -- this is something we need to stop. however, this lack of pluralism, this lack of cooperation has extended to the u.s. house of

representatives where -- a week away from another possible government shutdown. house republicans have not got a plan yet, hopefully one will surface this weekend, to avoid that. what are you hearing about that? how do you think this will play out? mike johnson's new to the job as speaker, this is a heavy lift for him. >> it is a heavy lift, and what i'm hearing are two things inside the caucus. one is, let it burn. there is a thinking that they will put something on the table that is not palatable to not just the democrats in the senate, but republicans, mitch mcconnell won't be happy with it. certainly in the white house want. but they think they will get blamed for it. they will get blamed for it. so it is a narrative thing for them. there are other recognized to recognize, let's give speaker a little bit more runway to negotiate a better deal. yes we can put some poison pills in there, but mimi the

dosage is not a strong. maybe it is a little more subtle and won't hurt as much. but they are still struggling with that. they fired mccarthy for negotiating a debt deal. the question i want to know is, what deal did johnson cut to avoid that happening? because, he is now at the hour where he has to make a decision. so america, when it falls apart, and it likely will, or do not look to the senate, do not look to the white house. look to the house. the house is the -- part right now. >> michael, while i love our discussion on pluralism, you and i both believe, in it the truth is we don't disagree on all that much in politics. might there be a date when the little things we disagree on we can just have that debate. you are always here for it. i appreciate it my friend, michael, still former chairman of the republican national committee, and he is an msnbc political analyst and a great

friend. still ahead, israel has promised to sporadically pause bombing across the gaza strip. what that means for civilians who are trying to get out, and trying to get in. i will be joined by united nations humanitarian coordinator with more than 20 years of experience. why she says, an all out cease-fire is needed. later in the show, controversy to -- society, now it is banned in some places -- is the author of all -- the velshi banned book club. more velshi in a moment. creech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. [camera shutter sfx] he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. [ned?] it can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing

it for nearly a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. [crowd gasp] ♪♪ with clearer skin, movie night is a groovy night. [ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla.

you're probably not easily persuaded to switch live in the moment. mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? have we piqued your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. >> just over a month into the wireless that works for you. it's not just possible. israel hamas conflict, the death toll has exceeded 11,004 palestinians, and 1200 for his release. on friday, strikes in gaza is how she felt, hospital wounded displaced civilians forcing to flee scenes of bloodshed, desperation, at al-shifa came

as israeli forces closed in on the center of gaza city. i had least four hospitals, according to the palestinian health officials. a senior israeli security official told nbc news, at least one strike at al-shifa came from a militant group inside gaza. the official did not say which militant, group nor did they say whether the idf had launched -- on al-shifa or the other hospitals. hamas rejected allegations that protect us from the enclave had fallen short, and hit civilians at the hospital. while much of the focus is being made to developments in israel, and gaza, other escalations are popping up elsewhere in the region. earlier in the, week the u.s. carried out an airstrike on a weapons warehouse in eastern syria that was being used by islamic revolutionary guard who u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin, says, quote the precision self-defense strike is a response to a series of attacks against u.s. personnel in iraq, and syria. -- forces and affiliates.

on wednesday, a u.s. military surveillance drone was shot down by iran-backed houthi rebels off the coast of yemen. that is according to the senior u.s. military official who spoke with the associated press. with the military spokesman also confirmed that they shot down an american drone. with more on these developments, i'm joined by msnbc -- 's who is in lebanon. matt, let's start with what is going on in lebanon and hezbollah. this is going to be the second to prince since october 7th. the hezbollah leader -- says targeting u.s. bases in the region is in response to israel's bombing of civilians. tell me what he said, and what it means? >> yes, what we heard again was the greatest hits from -- we heard it last week it has been his second switch in as many weeks. what has been surprising to a lot of people in the region, it has been only his second reach in the five weeks since this latest crisis began. normally this is -- a leader who is adored by his public, who is seen as almost a

-- figure for those who are opposed to israel. instead, he has been keeping tightlipped. he said a lot of what he said last week, which is, essentially hezbollah is holding its position. they have been fighting quite a bit of course at the border behind me with israel. at the same time, it hasn't broken out into a full on war like many of his supporters. many spell estonians who would like to, see they want to see hezbollah as the cavalry that hope to the palestinians rescue, and instead rather restrained. hezbollah once again made clear, the purpose here is to try and distract israeli forces from their operations in the gaza strip, and the operations in the west bank where israelis have been killing and arresting the palestinians. so they say their utility hezbollah has been a force, but this is really an impossible position for -- he loses, no matter which thing

he decides to do, if he goes fully in -- he was destroying his country in lebanon, once again dismantling his own enormous army of fighters if he doesn't go into war, then he loses a lot of credibility on the street of people who are opposed to is really, really hoping that -- >> the most powerful -- hoping that he would be fully engaged. so he has very little to gain. ali? >> as, always we are smarter for listening to. thank you my friend. matt bradley in lebanon. still ahead, strikes hit gaza's largest hospital overnight. doctors are al-shifa say the intensive care a pediatric departments are now entirely without power. the eu and humanitarian corner for the occupied -- occupied - my brain. so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra.

think bigger. (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro for your husband! iphone 15 pro — ♪ try new neuriva ultra. (wife) carolers! to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (husband) no way they'd take this wreck. (carolers) ♪ yes, they will, and you'll get iphone 15 pro, ♪ ♪ aaannnnnddddd apple tv 4k, and apple one - ♪ ♪ all three on them! ♪ (wife) do that. (carolers) ♪ we tried to tell him but he paid us a lot... ♪ (husband) it was a lot... ♪ mhmmm ♪ (vo) this holiday turn any iphone, in any condition, into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium, apple tv 4k, and six months of apple one. all three on us. it's holiday everyday with verizon.

i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today.

ian will find the true meaning of the holiday sweater. i will? because he went to michaels and got everything he needed to make a one of a kind crewneck you could never get off the rack. turn ideas into i-did-its. (music) ♪ (holiday music) ♪

have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms, like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could be something more serious called attr-cm, a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist, and ask about attr-cm. >> the humanitarian crisis in gaza continues to deteriorate

five weeks into the conflict with the civilian death toll now surpassing 11,000, half of which are believed to be children. relentless bombing neighborhoods, displacing millions of people who have been cut off from basic essentials for over a month. more than 100 -- more than 100 united nations workers have been killed in what is the highest you and the thorniest ingle conflict according to the u.n. agency for palestinian refugees. global calls for a cease-fire continue to grow, and at least eight countries have recalled their ambassador some israel. children are bearing the brunt of the wars impact. on friday, unicef warned that the lives of 1 million children in gaza are, quote, hanging by a thread, because of the collapse of child health services, an ongoing explosions and gunfire. one spokespern warned, quote, if there is hell on earth today, its name is nort gaza. people who remain there, the quarters of their existence are, death deprivation, despair,

displacement, and literally darkness. joining me to discuss this humanitarian crisis is lin hastings, the united nations humanitarian coordinator for the occupied palestinian territory. thank you for being with us. tell me what you have seen, where you have, been and what you are witnessing. i understand you are spending time with us rafah crossing, the crossing in egypt we are caught talking about on a daily basis. >> yes, thank you very much. i haven't been able to get into gaza yet. but yes indeed, in terms of the rafah crossing, that is it the crossing we are -- trying to get into delivery monotone assistance. you just want to back up a bit and give a bit of an overview here, we are calling for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire, we are calling for the immediate release of all the hostages that are in gaza, eight's unconditional. that means unconditional release of the hostages, and unconditional ability to

deliver assistance throughout gaza. so i have seen the pictures that you have just shown, and conversations with other colleagues, for others, for example administrators of hospitals, et cetera, we are seeing really something unprecedented, in addition to the overwhelming u.n. staff that have been killed, we are seeing unprecedented numbers of people being injured, and killed of course throughout gaza at the moment. there has been a lot of speculation as to whether or not there is -- going into gaza or not, just to put things into context, before -- of this year, there were 450 trucks going in a day to gaza, 15 additional for fuel. the reason why that is important, is because 450 trucks a day of food and other

quantities was subject to the ongoing blockade, or the strict regime that it has been subject to of essence hamas -- in 2007. so 450 trucks a day before hand, now we are looking at about an average of 40 trucks a day since the first day the commodities started coming back in. and no fuel has gone in since october 7th, which of course means hospitals, and -- wastewater treatment plants are all stopping their operations. >> let me ask, you we mentioned a few things that are interesting, there is an impression that humanitarian workers who are calling for a cease-fire are not looking at the whole picture. you have said not only do you want a cease-fire, but you want the release of all the hostages. there are calls for fuel, but the allegation is that hamas uses the fuel that should be intended for civilian and

medical purposes. that -- what if that is true? how does that affect you thinking if at all? >> yes, so -- may i know there is allegations of hamas having me -- i can't speak to that precisely, and we are talking about men on october 7th, and the united nations refugee agency for the palestinians was able to access it with full coordination, with the government of israel, 200,000 leaders every couple of days we were able to get an agreement with the government of israel that could access -- we are very confident that all of that fuel has been used by this refugee agency, and that the fuel has been used to four

-- operations together with hospitals, a desalination, plant and wastewater treatment plants. again, i can't speak to whether or not hamas doesn't own storage of fuel, but i can say we are confident about the fuel we are using that is for humanitarian purposes. >> there is always an issue in things like this, the after watching the imagery we have seen for a few days, a few weeks, the news cycle sort of moves on, and people continue to die. what is your concern while the world's attention is still on this issue? obviously you have identified in a few moments i will be speaking to a family member of a hostage, hostage matter is a primary importance to the world. on the gaza side, what is the primary importance? what has to happen, and if it does, it happened what will happen to the people of gaza? >> so right now we are concerned about more the

operation down into -- and we have already been saying there is no more -- because in addition to airstrikes, safety is dependent on other types of conditions as i have said, access to clean drinking, water food, those sorts of things. so we are very concerned there is going to be a next operation in the south, which will leave people in gaza again, literally nowhere to go. we are hearing calls from the government of israel that perhaps there might be a so-called safe zone argument to terry and zone set up in the coast, and i do just want to make it clear, given the u.n.'s experience in these sorts of areas that are sometimes in the middle of conflict, that safe zones are only safe if there is an agreement between all parties. to my knowledge, this announcement or declaration that there might be a safe zone on the coast have only been announced by the government of

israel. in addition, these types of zones, humanitarians need to be able to deliver their, but anywhere else where there are people in need. so i just want to make that clear to our viewers, and of course the ultimate concern is what is going to be the future for gaza, but also the relationship between palestinians and israel, and how both communities are going to recover from this. >> it is a complex, issued by thanks to people like you who are on the ground dealing with the immediate needs, while the rest of the world tries to figure out the longer term solutions are going to be. we appreciate, that thanks to you and all the other members of the united nations who are involved in this. i'm sorry for the loss of all of your colleagues. it has been a tremendous loss for the united nations in the last five weeks. but -- for the occupied palestinian territory at the united nations for the coordination of humanitarian affairs. coming up, new supreme court -- now a state even the ruby red

once or restoring abortion rights one by one. coming up next, why abortion access just keeps winning at the ballot box. llot box a safe step walk-in tub is the best in it's class. the ultra-low easy step helps keep you safe from having to climb over those high walled tubs, allowing you to age gracefully in the home you love. and now, back by popular demand, for a limited time, when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package! yes! a free shower package, and if you call today, you'll also receive $1600 off. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds. the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath, that can help increase mobility, relieve pain, boost energy, and even improve sleep. or, if you prefer, you can take a refreshing shower all in one product! call now! >> on june 24th 2020, to the

constitutional right to an abortion was effectively erased. the conservative stacked supreme court reversed the 1973 ruling, leaving representatives in each state to duke it out over abortion access. justice samuel alito writing for the court majority said, quote, we thus return the power to weigh those documents to the people, and their elected representatives. return, as if a woman's freedom over her own body is something that can be passed around, and ultimately traded back to its rightful owner. republican antiabortion lawmakers celebrated with a resounding hurrah for state rights, then with the house minority leader met up with kevin mccarthy, congressman

steve scalise and -- released a joint smith staying in part, quote, the supreme court's right to return the power to unborn to peoples elective representatives in congress and the states. senator mitt romney joined, and he said quote, i support the courts decision which means laws regarding abortion will not rightfully returned to the people, and their elective representatives. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell said in part, quote, for 50 year states have been unable to enact even modest protections for unborn children, not anymore. now the american people get their voice back. the republican party was about to find out the hard way, that this untimely conclusion to bodily autonomy was going to backfire on them. it is almost as if justice alito predicted so in his opinion in the dobbs case, quote, our decision returns the issue of abortion to those legislative bodies, and it

allows women on both sides of the abortion issue to seek the legislative process by influencing public opinion, lobbying legislators, voting and running for office. women are not without electoral or political power. it is noteworthy that the percentage of women registered to vote and cast ballots is consistently higher than the percentage of men who do so. nothing like a good dose of mansplaining while actively stripping away the rights of millions of women. we'll have hell had no fear like a woman scored, and so forth they did. in august of 2022, voters in the state of kansas rejected a proposed state constitutional amendment that would have made abortion illegal in the state. then came the midterm elections. november 2022. five other states left the issue of abortion rights up to the electorate. california, michigan, vermont, kentucky, and montana all voted in favor of protecting abortion

rights and access. this was no fluke. abortion rights proved to be the central voting issue in tuesday's state elections. in kentucky, the democratic governor andy beshear won a reelection after making support of abortion a key message of his campaign in a deep red state, in virginia democrats kept their majority in the state senate and flipped the state house, a brazen or beautiful republican governor glenn youngkin who put a 15-week abortion ban at the center of his campaign to help the gop win full control of his state. in ohio, voters and shrine abortion rights in the state constitution, despite republicans trying everything in their power to prevent it. as msnbc steve bannon writes, they try to force proponents to give 60% of the, votes they tried purging registered ohio some of the, role in needlessly provocative unborn child phrasing to the literal -- as it appeared on the ballot.

gop leaders in the state even lied to the public about the implications of the measure, but in the, and the vote was not even close. the ballot initiative to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution won by more than 13 points. now, advocates and at least a dozen other states are trying to put abortion on the ballot in 2024. since the fall of roe, how many statewide worship votes do you think republicans have won? zero. goose egg. so you don't need me to tell you, this is not a good sign for republicans heading into 2024. the antiabortion platform has actually become a liability for the republican party. sent the issue to the states, republican said. give people their voice, back republican said. well, you got your -- and used it to tell them what you thought about the attack on reproductive rights, on women's, rights on rights in general. but you cannot give people this power, and then scott when the result is not the one you are hoping for.

the former republican senator rick center said the quiet part out loud in response to voters in ohio protecting access to abortion. he said, and i quote, you put very sexy things like abortion and marijuana on the ballot in a lot of young people come out and vote. thank goodness most of the state in this country don't allow you to put everything on the ballot, because pure democracies are not the way to run a country. pure democracies are not the way to run a country. and lamenting that a lot of young people come out to vote. maybe tuesday's elections were not about this issue or that issue, maybe, just maybe americans actually like living in a democracy. in 2024, it may come down to one or two motivated issues, the, abortion economy, perhaps or maybe this is about americans having the right to decide for themselves.

listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪

meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control.

chase. make more of what's yours. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. >> following tuesday night's resounding win for abortion rights know-how a state that donald trump won by eight points in 2020, democrats have been rushing to get similar constitutional amendments on the ballot in a number of battleground states with an added goal of boosting president biden's chances for reelection. right now, abortion is winning democratic elections, even in red states. history suggest, popular ballot questions can make a difference at the top of the ticket that as well. in may of 2000 and, for massachusetts became the first state to recognize same sex

marriage, prompting swift backlash from the right. that november, 11 states held referendum seeking to ban same-sex marriage, well george w. bush and -- were in a dead heat at the top of the ballot. the measure passed overwhelmingly in all 11 states, while simultaneously driving a voter turnout. the state with the biggest increase in turnout, was ohio, jumping about ten points in ohio was crucial for george bush, but it wasn't a given that he would win it. the polls printed ohio as a coin toss with the referendum -- rural parts of the state, and pushed bush cross the finish line. it proved pivotal. had john kerry one ohio, he would have won 270 electoral, vote he would have needed to the president. even at the, time people saw the referendum, was the thing that tipped the scales. here is the new york times in 2004. the ballot measures also appear have acted like magnets for thousands of socially cotive voters in rural and suburban communities might

not otherwise have voted, even in this heated campaign, an anti, races those voters who historically athlete heavily republican may have tipped the balance, and quote. this is 2004. so the strategy as president, the question is can it work in reverse next year and help joe biden stay in office against a challenger whose party is pushing deeply unpopular antiabortion policies. for more on this, i'm joined by mueller john fast, host of the wonderful fast politics podcast. dean is an attorney, host of the dean show on sirius x m sublet radio, and it columnist for the msnbc delete newsletter. love having you both. thank you for being here. so we saw what happened in 2000 and, for it did not work. these things do drive people out. now you hear rick santorum saying, and others have, said it did not -- that is pure democracy, pure democracy here is a bad idea because now everybody, young

people are going to come out and, vote women are going to come out for the, right pence will vote against book banning. tell me what you think. every one of these abortion referendums, it doesn't matter who put them, up abortion rights of one. >> yes, look, democrats have wildly popular policies. right? choice is wildly popular, and we are seeing firsthand why they overturned roe v. wade in -- what roe v. wade have been in 1973. because, doctors are afraid to treat, maternal mortality is going, up we are seeing these horror stories, we are seeing the tollville girls. so i think this is a wildly popular, just like by the way the legalization of marijuana. these ideas, which are the ideas that democrats are trying to enact, these ideas are popular. so republicans are trying to be very, scared because they're losing in these ballot, initiatives and then you see things like rick santorum saying the -- >> and the thing, dean, that is interesting to, me the

preservation of abortion rights seems to be more popular than abortion. the preservation of parents being able to choose what their children read is more popular than this is lewd and going to make my kid gay or something like that. all american seem to be standing up for democracy and rights. >> i agree with you. in 1992 -- said it is the economy is stupid to bill clinton arsenic on -- put it on up in the headquarters. the biden team needs to do the same thing. is abortion stupid. after that it is democracy is stupid. and they show biden trailing, it still shows americans solidly approve biden's handling of abortion and democracy. those issues are intertwined to me. it is not self determination, it is self determination for a woman to sharon destiny, self determination for us to vote, academic freedom intertwined with democracy. it is about having rights to read the books you want. do what you want with your own

body. i think one republicans view this, the view abortion as a political issue, it is the most personal issue that could be. you are forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term because the religion says that, and you are making your religion the law of the land. and as muslims -- >> we know how that goes. >> they told us forever -- you are doing it for your right-wing angelical point of view, people do not like it. >> it is government overreach, these are the party of small government wants -- to >> what is going on there? >> there is no intellectual honesty in this party. they just want what they want. they want to make you carry a debt fetus to term. they want to make your could not be able to read a book, but they also want to not fund pre-k. there's no intellectual honesty. there is no consistency. at this point it is just the party of this guy with 91 criminal indictments -- counts. >> let's talk about the polling that came out the other day. interestingly enough lots of

people talk about the polling, but then there was an election the next day. this seems to happen sometimes. there's polling, there is an election that says something different, but this keeps concentrating around joe biden and about the attractability of some of his popularity numbers, and things go to his age. the governor of illinois, he made a comment a few weeks ago, he said the public should lean into, it the last 45 years donald trump has become a bitter small vindictive ruthless fraudulent man while joe biden has become empathetic and kind and worldly and all of these things. what do you make about the difference between the polls and the votes? >> again, these polls are small. there are people who pick up their cell phones, 3000 people. this last poll wasn't six states, these are the states that biden needs to win to stay in office, but, again i have a lot of pollster friends, i talked, them they are convinced the methods still works, this

method has of course been wrong in 23, 22, remember the red wave midterm, wrong in 2020. so i do think national polls and even these larger presidential polls, people like to complain to pollsters, we are seeing that a lot. i'm not convinced we are getting an accurate -- >> i agree. i think what polls don't measure is the intensity about what issues are going to make you go out and vote? here is a hierarchy of issues. the economy is number one, abortion might be number three, whether or not measuring is what makes you leave your house to mail in ballot? it is about your rights. it is about what is personal. i will tell you this, the call is to my show on monday, on wednesday it was a celebration, it was we will win. everybody was happy. listen, since abortion is such a driving, issue and donald trump pledged in a 2016 campaign to a point where justices would overturn roe v. wade. the ads right themselves. you have that -- there is donald trump on the

cnn town hall, saying quote, i terminated roe v. wade and was honored to do so. he said in another interview on newsmax, i killed roe v. wade, and then taking credit for -- those are the ads. you know what the ad follows up with? when he is president again, he will sign an abortion ban. we know he will do, it because that is what his base wants. it's exactly what his base wants. these are the ads that will run in swing state after swing state. that motivates people, women, men, young people to come out and vote. donald trump is the best candidates that -- if he, wins democracy -- >> there is an interesting second everything that motivated people this time around. book bans. moms for liberty ran in -- the school board races, local races which a lot of people do not show up to vote for. it cost increase turnout. i spoke to bucks county pennsylvania, she ran fan candidates for five seats on the council -- the school board, all 51 because she went out and went after these book banners.

like abortion, it is the let me make this decision for my children. let me make this decision with my children. i'm not handing this to the state, i'm not letting you decide it -- appropriate for my kid. >> that was incredible stuff. i would say, the moms for liberty lost money everything except one race, they won one -- people do not like politics in their politics. they want kids to learn. that looks like, kids get to mean -- the idea of going back to book bans, it is scary, and i think it really does galvanize voters. so many of these republican issues were cultural war things that people were not that interested in cooked up in heritage factories, things they thought might scare people into voting. the reality is, books do not make you gay. >> that is the point. >> good to see you both, i love having your hair. all right, dean, molly

jong-fast, a special correspondent for vanity fair and host of the -- siriusxm earlier first and columnist for the msnbc daily newsletter. we will be right back on velshi. velshi announcer: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -ah. right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. (ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon kinda like me. to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network.

(ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. coming. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

up another hour of velshi. the way forward for donald trump besieged by investigations, droughts, indictments. a party that he took, over a party that is continuing to lose dramatically at the national level but whose base voters remain and sorrow had

the disgraced as president. 36 days since jonathan's zag and heard from his mother. and it's peace activists being held hostage by hamas. i've met him last month when i was in tel aviv. i was reporting on the war. here's what he told me then that he wanted his mother to know. >> i hope she will say this interview. i think she would be proud of the way you are articulating her message. what do you want to tell her? >> it's not much more than love. i want to throw that i miss her. how much she means to me and to my kids and to so many people all over the world. they are reaching out to me, they're working with me to try to help. >> yinatan zeigen joins me live in a few minutes as news of

efforts to get the hostages released trickles. out from today's important episode of the velshi banned book club i will be joined by the celebrated israeli writer storied robbyn yang to talk about her beautiful novel all the rivers based on a true israeli palestinian love story. another hour of velshi begins right now. >> good morning, i'm ali velshi, it's a late day, november. 11th it's veterans day. in a few moments the president and the first lady will participate in a flag raising ceremony in the cemetery. we will bring you as it. happens first, let's turn to the jam-packed week in politics that we just had and what it signifies about the race ahead. in just the last five days, former president took the stand to testify in a trial that has laid waste to his creation myth as a self made billionaire. most of the other republican president candidates took to