>> but as all the time of today, i am alicia menendez, someone asked thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. check out our show across media, at the handle at alicia on msnbc. a sea backdoor for more american voices. for now, i handed over to my friend, ayman mohyeldin. hello? >> hey, you know, it's a no-brainer that when you're shows on the air, i prepare for my show. i think while watching a show, what am i going to talk to alicia during the handover.

i was like, should i ask her about mike johnson learning on the job with a cr bill that gets shut down by -- five minutes of it coming out. >> you had to kind of appreciate the hubris and go, no, the last guy couldn't do it, but i'll be the one that -- >> is that the fundamental problem, is that the republicans have not address the ideological divides within their party? so you can rotate the speaker out as much as you want, the next guy comes in, he may have a lot of bluster, but once he's in that position and has to actually put forward a bill, they realize that they still have that extreme maga wing in the party that's going to shoot it down. the democrats are probably not going to go along with it. you really haven't solve this fundamental problem. >> the fundamental problem and or just understanding fundamental math. >> yeah, exactly. >> that's the reason. >> it's great to see you, as always, my friend, great show, enjoy the rest of your evening. good evening to you, welcome to ayman tonight. dangerous threats, election offices in states across the united states are being

harassed, including one that was mailed an envelope containing a suspicious powder. and breaking, moments ago, donald trump just attacked online one of the offices targeted in that incident. plus, the trumps take the stand yet again. don jr. back, testifying next week in the civil fraud trial. what we can expect after his father's explosive admissions. then, democratic blowout, up and down the ballot, -- the lessons to learn as we head into 2024. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. a string of election offices have been targeted with threats of violence, yet again. that is where we start our coverage, this evening. nbc news reports that the fbi and the u.s. postal inspection service are investigating a series of letters, containing -- powder, that were sent to

election workers in multiple states in recent days. at least five states were hit, nevada, california, oregon, washington, and georgia. officials say the letters are now being laed, but the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, has confirmed that a letter sent to election offices in fulton county did in fact contain fentanyl. the washington post reports that one of the pages in that letter said, quote, and a elections now. here is what raffensperger told reporters. >> some people like to call

fentanyl a drug. but it's actually poison. it will kill you. this is domestic terrorism, and it needs to be condemned by anyone that holds elected office, and anyone that wants to hold elected office, anywhere in america. >> despite this, despite being the target of a dangerous and potentially violent a letter, donald trump just moments ago, publicly attacked fulton county election workers, accusing them of, quote, a lot of crime. this was just done on his own social media site. now, we should note that we do not know who sent these letters, or even why, the fbi is still investigating that. but for years now, the far-right in this country has been threatening election offices and workers. these threats got so bad that reuters actually compiled a special database titled,

campaign of fear, the trump world's assault on u.s. election workers. and a recent study from the brennan center of justice, or for justice, revealed 30% of election officials say they have been personally abused, harassed, or threatened, because of their job. now, it's part of a broader pattern, if you will, of threats, coming from the right, attacking their perceived enemies. as this criminal and civil trial proceeds, trump is viciously harassing those seeking to hold them accountable, or just overseeing those efforts. the ex president has whipped up

his followers into such a frenzy that ally enforcement officials have serious concerns about deadly -- just yesterday, trump, again, attacked new york attorney general, letitia james, on social media, saying she, quote, should be prosecuted. he didn't stop there. now, we have always made a point not to show trump's social media posts. we try not to show you the deranged things that he saying. especially those amplifying lies, or hate. but this is a rare moment in which we feel compelled to show you one post. because it is so extreme, you have to see it to believe it. trump re-posted this image. depicting the u.s. capitol in flames. with a caption reading, quote, i'm coming back to clean up this mess. let's be clear here for a moment. we are not saying that trump is responsible for this week's dangerous lecture campaign. but he and his allies, they really helped foster the climate that we are in now, as a country. one were threats and actual threats are now commonplace. and public servants have to live in constant fear, just for doing their jobs to make our country and our democracy work. we have an all-star panel to kick things off for us this hour. let's bring in colorado secretary of state, jena

griswold, former maryland congresswoman, donna edwards, and msnbc political analyst, barbara mcquade, who is also an msnbc legal analyst. it's good to have all three of you with us. secretary griswold, i'd like to start with your thoughts. on just what we heard in the last hour or so, these breaking comments from trump tonight. i should say on his social media that we read, attacking fulton county election workers, just as their office is receiving a letter containing fentanyl. one that the secretary of state in that state called an act of terrorism. >> i would say donald trump's disgusting. he is the furthest thing from a patriot, and a leader this country has ever seen in the presidency. you know, honestly, donald trump has opened mega extremism, which has put us election officials under threat. in his words, will cause threats to election workers in fulton county. and we are already having to contend with letters full of powder, some fentanyl, gunpowder. we are already having to contend with this conspiracy, the lies, the constant [inaudible] people like donald trump endlessly taking it up. he wants to scare good election workers out of their jobs, so he can put extremists in to help him steal elections. it's an american, and americans need to stop these extremists from taking further power in this country. >> how would you say, secretary griswold, that this affects their ability to do their job going forward? put the danger into perspective for us about why these workers

are so important, and the threats they receive. what kind of impact does that actually have on them, and then their ability to actually do the work that our democracy needs? >> every step of american elections has oversight, of volunteer election workers. they are republicans and democrats, put together. they test voting equipment, they do signature verifications. they do the audits afterwards. these are people who are our neighbors, our grandparents, and they did not sign up to put up with a bunch of craziness and threats to their lives. and ayman, even before this latest round of insanity, letters, some, possibly with fentanyl, with poison, being sent to election workers, this country has already seen an exodus. election officials, the brennan center warned that election workers were getting scared that they would -- and they have been stepping down.

here in colorado, we lost about a third of the elected county clerks. now, other people are stepping up. we will have great elections. but understand, the threats to election workers is part of the attack on democracy. it is trying to destabilize the local administration of democracy, so that extremists, maga republicans, can be put in their place. >> congresswoman edwards, as you heard there from the secretary of state, they seize an attack on our democracy. you watched tuesdays elections unfold. it was just after that we learned of these letters containing threats that explicitly said end elections now. what struck you as a former member of congress, when you take a step back, and you kind of absorb all of this that is happening across the country? this attack on our election workers, our democracy, the message, the rhetoric coming out from donald trump. the inability of members of the far-right in the maga movement

and congress to condemn what donald trump has done. how do you survey that landscape right now? >> you know, i think it's a very complicated arrangement now, for those who are -- for our secretaries of state, for our local elections officials. one of the things that makes american elections so safe and secure is the fact that they are conducted at the most local level. and that means that it takes ordinary people as the secretary has said, our friends, our neighbors, our coworkers, really administering the work of democracy. and here, we see that in the face and the name of the former president, who puts these elections officials and risk all the time, every time he speaks out, whether it's against fulton county, or any other elections officials, it actually endangers everyone. we are seeing that. we don't know who is acting on these, the fbi, and law

enforcement are going to try to get to the bottom of that, but the fact is, we are going into another election cycle in 2024. where we know that we are going to see things that we haven't seen before. and we need these guardians, and what we, at the national council of election integrity call, these faces of democracy, really stepping up to make sure that our elections remain safe and secure. >> barbara, what happens next, in terms of the investigation into these incidents across multiple states? how does the fbi respond? what could the legal fallout be, if there are any specific charges brought forward. what might those charges actually look like? what is the law that is being violated here? >> between the fbi and also the postal inspection service, they will combine forces, and they have the ability to take a national perspective on all of this. this case reminds me a little

bit of the pipe bomb, or caesar siamak, who was sending pipe bombs through the mail, two media executives, as well as prominent members of the democratic party. they ultimately found him. i suspect the fbi and the postal inspection service will as well, based on video that they have at their various facilities, they'll be able to figure out where these letters were sent from, and they will find commonalities to be able to identify someone. but it is a crime to put dangerous matter in the mail. it's a crime to communicate threats through the mail. and so, those crimes will be at play here. and it will be an interesting thing to see, where this individualize found, or whether it's a group of individuals. where the cases brought. but it can be brought in any place where a mailing began, continued, or finished. so i imagine that all the cases could be brought together in one place, so that a jury could understand the full scope of the criminal conduct here. because it is, to me, it seems,

an orchestrated effort to intimidate, not just the workers in one place, but across the country, in an effort to scare off people from conducting the administration of elections. which as we've just heard, relies on volunteers, and people at lower levels of pay, to do these jobs. if their lives are in danger, people will stop doing. who needs to risk their lives for a job that doesn't pay? but we need those people to make sure that elections can be carried on in this country. >> do you think, barbara, and i think we've discussed this before in different contexts. but in a case of these types of incidents that are happening, these types of attacks and threats against our democracy, are we at a point where we need more robust domestic terrorism statutes to combat this? i know there's always the concern about what rubs up against free speech. we don't have a domestic terrorist organization the way that we do have an fto, a foreign terrorist organization at the state department. but do we need to start reevaluating domestic terrorism statutes in this country, given this new emerging threat?

>> yes. that is certainly a debate. i would argue that as we just heard, brad raffensperger say, this conduct is an act of domestic terrorism. there is a federal definition of domestic terrorism, there's just no crime of domestic terrorism. that federal definition is essentially engaging in actions dangerous to human life, to achieve a political goal. that seems to me that's exactly what's going on here. to call it domestic terrorism could allow investigative strategies to be employed earlier, to disrupt attacks. and would also bring with it, the moral equivalency that we see when we charge cases of international terrorism. >> congresswoman edwards, trump has helped create, as we've noted many times on the show and elsewhere, a culture where threatening officials has now become the norm in this country. it's not just him, but others. i mentioned that just yesterday, trump called the new york attorney general, letitia james, to be prosecuted. how are all these threats

reshaping the political climate in this country, and pushing the boundaries of what we once thought was the limit, what we thought was the appropriate and polite conduct in which we conducted our democracy? >> well, it's still the limit. it just is that donald trump is violating that very very bright line. one of the things that this highlights for me, is the fact that we have elections offices all across the country, that are really starving for cash, ayman. they really need to make sure that they have people on staff who either screen their mail, or that they have appropriate security precautions in place, so that they can do their job. congress actually needs to step up, because in order for our democracy to exist in the most robust way, it also requires a robust level of funding at the state, local, and federal level. right, now we are just not there at all. that, in itself, is actually putting our democracy at risk. because we have so few people now who are willing to step up and volunteer. and bless these people who are highlighted in the states.

because, you know what, they stepped off the job for a couple of hours, but they went right back to it. because they are committed to muck democracy. we need that across the board. >> secretary griswold, it's kind of shocking for me, i just want to get your thoughts on this. this haunting image of donald trump posting a picture of the u.s. capital on flames, with the text, i'm coming back to clean up this mess. while he is being it, basically, charged with attempting to overthrow our elections and everything that happened on january the 6th. what kind of message do you think that sense? what is your reaction to this unhinged person, now, who is posting these types of images with that text? >> honestly, it's hard to even find words. to show the symbol of democracy

in flames is just so reckless and careless. but at the end of the day, we know who donald trump is. he's someone who a lies to the american people. who knows his words, or at least should know his words incite violence against everyday people. it's a person who is the front runner in the republican primary for president, who tried to steal the election. so, i think it just speaks to, in volumes, to the attack on democracy that is continuing. i agree with your panelists, it would be great if congress would wake up and passed protections for election workers, push more money down to the states, understanding that the administration of elections is now really tough. it would be great if they would act and tighten the laws on domestic terrorism. but, i just want to remind everybody, an election denier and chief is the speaker of the house.

republicans in congress have decided to fully embrace these conspiracies, in these conspiracies will get, and have gotten people hurt. >> it's such an important point. i'm glad that you reminded that this movement is not on the decline, in fact, it's getting more powerful, and becoming more powerful in the positions of governance in this country. colorado secretary of state, jena griswold, thank you so much. donna, barbara, please stick around. i'm going to talk to you a little bit later on. after the break, i want to discuss donald trump's civil fraud trial and what we can expect when, yes, don jr., takes the stand, yet again, this week. ♪ these are the people, who help you stay well. ♪ ♪ searching lower prices, ♪

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the defense in new york attorney general, letitia james's, civil trial against donald trump and his family has finally been revealed. the disgraced ex presidents son and codefendant, donald trump

jr., will take the stand, monday morning. this comes after judge engoron denied james's motion to preclude, excuse me, for the defenses expert witnesses from testifying next week. gexplained his reasoning, quote, one of my goals here is i don't want a retrial in this case. i don't want to be reversed. now that ruling capped off a week of blockbuster -- blockbusters, in the courtroom. on monday, the combative ex president took to the witness stand for three and a half hours. ranting about how prosecutors were democrats, and that they were somehow trump haters. at one point, a frustrated judge had to remind trump that, quote, this is not a political rally. let's call that three hour temper tantrum out for what it really is. it is a distraction from an increasingly desperate ex president. let's take a look at the substance of his testimony for a second. trump acknowledged that he helped assemble annual financial statements submitted to banks. statements that inflated his net worth.

and unlike his two eldest sons who insisted they had nothing to do with putting together those fraudulent documents, the ex president openly admitted that he went over some of the figures. quote, i would look at them, i would see them, and i would maybe on occasion have some suggestions. lawyers for the state then got trump to admit that the evaluation of his triplex at trump tower, which he tried to pass off as 30,000 square feet, rather than 11,000, was, quote, too high. there's no doubt these bombshell admissions will be top of mind for the state when they get their chance to re-examine don jr., next week. former congressman, donna edwards, and barbara mcquade, are back with me, both. great to have you still with us. barbara, let's start with trump's testimony here. i'm trying to think of a movie scene that was similar to this. there were a lot that come to my mind, but just how damaging was donald trump's testimony on

capitol hill? >> legally, i think it was incredibly damaging to him. it seems to me that what he is doing here is just doubling down on his theory that these properties were property valued, if anything, he said, perhaps, they were undervalued. and having these temper tantrums, i think, is really playing to the political crowd. i think he has written off having any credibility with this judge, based on the judges findings even before the trial started. and so, by going after the attorney general, and by going after the judge, and claiming bias and unfairness, he will preserve his own reputation among his followers, even after, as expected, the judge rules against him in this case. it's all about preserving his political capital, and as opposed to worrying about his legal consequences.

>> i was going to say, the scene that came to mind for me was in a few good men, when jack nicholson basically admits he ordered the code red. i felt like just saying the testimony, donald trump basically admitted he incited both the square footage of his house and the value of his triplex, was kind of that moment. congresswoman edwards, there's kind of the former acting solicitor general. during the obama administration, a big friend of this network, neal katyal, who said this about trump's testimony, quote, in one respect, trump strategy is successful. everyone is talking about his temper tantrums, instead of talking about his commissions of fraud, and that he is a cheat. he's already lost the merits of the case, so this is his best play. and to barbara's point, do you agree with neal, that his strategy was a success, if you are just looking at it purely from the political lens, not the legal one? >> it's clearly the case. he's not only is he using all

of these trials in his campaigning, he uses it on the campaign trail, he talks about it at his rallies, he uses the fact that these cases, to raise money for his campaign, he's seen it as politics the whole time. the problem with that is that that's not going to help him with the -- way who is the judge in this case. who is looking just at the factual evidence. i mean, the documents alone really speak to the fraudulent behavior, and it's really, right now, just a question of how much. but is he winning among his base and in his public? sure he is. but at the end of the day, that's not going to matter. what's going to matter is the documents and facts that were presented in the courtroom. >> barbara, what can we expect to see on monday when don jr. takes the stand? how will it differ, for example, from what we saw last week. >> well, it's really interesting, ayman, one is because this is now the direct testimony, they can provide the narrative they want to tell. they are not simply responding

and reacting to questions by the attorney general, this is going on the offensive and providing the narrative they want to. but i think it's going to be very difficult for donald trump jr. to really have a lot of credibility here. his whole strategy, when he testified previously, was to distance himself from knowledge about the things. that it was all about the accountants, i don't really pay much attention to this, sure, maybe i signed off on these things. but remember, he gave that press conference at the end of his testimony where he said i relied on accountants to do, wait for it, accounting. it's going to be difficult for him, i think to now say anything with any authority, other than to repeat what he's already said. >> i was going to say, most people have accountants prepare documents, but then they have to sign off on those documents at some point. they don't just get to say it's the accountants fault. donna edwards, barbara mcquade, thank you so much. appreciate it as always. up next, democrats won big at the ballot box this week. but how can the party keep that momentum going into 2024? i'm going to speak with one of

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>> some big political news this week, the results are in from ohio to kentucky. democrats -- major wins on the ballot box on tuesday. let's start in the buckeye state, where ohioans voted overwhelmingly to enshrine the right to an abortion into the state constitution. in addition to protecting abortion rights, voters in ohio also approved a ballot measure to legalize recreational marijuana use for people aged 21 and over. over in virginia, democrats swept the general assembly, turning the house of delegates blue. preserving their majority in the state senate. with democrats in control, republican governor, glenn youngkin, won't be able to pass his promised 15-week abortion ban in the final two years of his term. in new jersey, democrats not only managed to hold on to their slate legislative majorities, but actually

expanded them, keeping their 25-50 majority in the state. in the state senate. and then picking up a net five seats in the assembly. in kentucky, governor, andy beshear, won reelection, marking another major win for democrats, in a predominantly red state. but with less than a year to go until the next election day, can democrats capitalize on this success, and keep this momentum going into 2024? here to discuss this and more, jessica post, senior adviser and president emerita of the democratic legislative campaign committee. it's great to have you with us, jessica, thank you so much for making time for us. let me get your reaction to tuesday's results. what do these winds actually mean? did any of them touchy by surprise? and how are you feeling about it? >> -- thinking it was a pure toss-up. but we're thrilled. we are absolutely thrilled by the results on tuesday. we feel really good about it. we weren't sure if governor youngkin's spending was going to sway the electorate, but ultimately, we learned that the

electorate wanted to reject his abortion ban. and i think the big thing is that millions of virginians now have their rights protected. their abortion rights, their lgbtq rights protected. so governor youngkin wasn't able to undermine the progress of the democratic majority that we and picked up in 2019. we are super proud that the republicans had talked a lot about winning in new jersey. they were able to do that. i think it's great, i think it's great momentum going into 2024. >> how do you, when you assess the different races, yes, they are democratic winds, but some of them were about issues, like in ohio, protecting women's rights. some of them were the right to choose, to be more specific. some of them were for candidates, like in the case of governor andy beshear. and some of them were to safeguard republicans from being able to control states, as we saw in virginia, and the games in that legislator.

how do you assess which races and which campaigns are going to work going into 2024? >> well, at the deal cc, we've always relied on a deep backing in analytics. we do a lot of data, a lot of research, in terms of which specific races and chambers are viable. another thing that we always do is we come with on the ground information. we always sit down with the legislative leadership, for example, in virginia, we sat down with don scott. as he was the minority leader. and created a strategy to take back the majority. so now, congratulations to speaker elect dawn scott. we are able to continue to work together, we will do the same thing state-by-state, to figure out what are the best chances for us to win majorities. in addition to that, one thing that we know is that abortion is an incredibly potent issue. and we are on the side of the voters, when we think about abortion rights. the other thing that we learned

is we also need to tell voters what we are going to do. one thing, if you think about, for example, the -- race, she spent a lot of time talking about fixing roads, feeding kids. and running on her slip of accomplishments, which were significant. so i think we compare the message of a republican extremism on abortion rights with the message that we will deliver as democrats for the voters in that district, that's the way we will win the day in 2024. >> and, yet you see what is happening in a state like ohio, for example, because on the heels of this week's vote, you've got republicans now trying to strip judges of their power to interpret the will of voters. you've got state republican lawmakers releasing their statement, saying that they are going to push the have the legislator, not the courts, makeny decisions about the abortihts amendment that was passed on tuesday. republicans lost at the ballot box, they are still trying anything, and basically

everything to impose their beliefs on ohio voters. how do democrats fight these, what i would call, very anti democratic and aggressive strategies? this is not the first time ohio has tried to curtail the right of women to vote? they were shot down once, now they've been trying to have the right to choose in constitution, what do you see from republican legislators, they're now trying to strip away the power from judges and keeping it in the hands of legislators. >> this came on the heels of them trying to make it harder to amend the state constitution. and to try to take back power in the state legislature. part of what we have to do is what happened on the ticket. we know that they put the appropriate attention and time into winning state legislative races, we can work to combat these anti-democratic legislators that we are seeing. it's incredibly concerning. state senators say a very anti democracy statement about majority rule being

problematic. you've seen a war on democracy, even just the word democracy within the republican party. and the state legislatures have done everything they can to try to move power back to them. you saw this when the republicans tried to steal the election. they tried to do it with state legislatures. it's incredibly important that we win up and down the ticket. and we win in the states, because the republican legislatures will continue to try to got ballot to negatives, undermine the courts, and undermine any other level of power. the fundamental power in many of these states is in the state legislature. what they are doing to the judges is fundamentally anti democratic. but we know that we have to do everything that when state legislatures in order to restore democracy in the states. >> jessica, before we go, can i just ask you about what all of this past tuesday means for the presidential election, perhaps the most important race, next year? as i mentioned, election day, now less than a year away. what do you think it means for the candidacy of joe biden, his reelection chances, obviously,

we've all been talking about some of the concerns that we have, given donald trump's statements about what he would do in a second term. but also some of the polls that perhaps suggest, in some swing states, joe biden is facing some challenges. >> well, we had a really encouraging election day. democrats won in 2022, we won in 2023 at the dlcc we made record levels of investment in virginia, when the virginia legislature. so i think what i think about what this means for president biden is the only expression goes, the only poll that matters is on election day. we are very far out from the election. and look, glenn youngkin thought he was a very popular governor going into virginia, and the voters soundly rejected his vision for virginia. so, really, i think we are very far out, i think we win this lesson in 2016, did not necessarily trust all the polls. i think president biden should be encouraged with these huge

wins for his party, at the head -- as the head of this party. i'm encouraged and i hope everyone else is in the democratic party as well. >> let's certainly hope so going into next year. jessica post, greatly appreciate your time. certainly appreciate -- all of your insights into this, excuse me. thank you so much. thanks jessica. >> thank you. >> up next, we are going to turn overseas. israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, now rejected calls for a cease-fire in gaza on week five. stay with us. and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul. it's your water, your way. >> so, israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, held a press conference earlier today, and he rejected calls for a cease-fire in gaza. >> when it comes to the hostages, my direct if is very clear. there will be no cease-fire before our hostages return. >> netanyahu also said that gaza will be demilitarized

after the war and israel will, quote, continue to control security there. meanwhile, power outages have hit the intensive care unit in the pediatric ward at gaza's main hospital, al-shifa, after heavy bombardment and fighting near the hospital overnight and today. a surgeon at the hospital told nbc news an infant has died as a result. now, despite these conditions, despite a food and medicine shortage, and israeli military official earlier this week denied that there is a humanitarian crisis in gaza. watch. >> we know that the civil situation in the gaza strip is not an easy one. or that there are a lot of challenges. we know that there are a lot of difficulties. but i can say that there is no humanitarian crisis in the gaza strip. >> there is no humanitarian crisis in the gaza strip. well, a new article by israeli journalist and congress, gideon levy, looks at those contradictions between what is real and its leadership say, and the reality of the conditions inside gaza. his latest piece for haaretz is

called if israel resists examining its own failures, another war awaits us. in, he writes, quote, the initial shock is now replaced by countless tales of heroism and rebirth, alongside the harrowing -- or horrifying, intolerable stories of disaster. but when they completely take over the discourse, one suspects the addiction to the tales of heroism is also intended to conceal reality and blur it. i spoke to gideon levy earlier today. >> gideon levy, thank you so much for joining us this evening. the prime minister of israel, benjamin netanyahu, just rejected calls for a cease-fire again. it has been five weeks since the hamas attacks on israel, and five weeks since israel's war on the gaza strip began. what do you make of his rejection for a cease-fire right now, and how he has been conducting this warm? >> no surprise. i mean, israel is in the middle of an operation, and israel did not achieve its goals.

namely, releasing the kidnapped and -- totally hamas. we are not there yet. therefore, there's no chance for a cease-fire right now. israel needs more time. the conduction of the war is, until now, seems to be in professional territory much different than they fiasco in the beginning. the beginning was catastrophic, in terms of military parents, military capabilities, it was the poorest performance of the israeli army ever. but ever since then, they are moving, according to their plans. the only problem is that the prize, as we expected it to be,

the price is unbelievable in terms of civilians being killed, being expended, the destruction of gaza is a norm is. i will never forget your unforgettable legendary report from gaza, you were there. i think it was happening now in gaza is even worse than what you have seen, and you have recorded in such a brilliant way. >> the new yorker here, and other outlets have been reporting that israel is cracking down on some of the internal critics inside of israel, they've arrested palestinian citizens of israel for expressing dissent or criticism of the war. masha gessen described how after october 7th, lea tsemel, a human rights lawyer who has been representing palestinian inmates in israel for more than 50 years began to see something unprecedented, that people were getting arrested for social media posts, and even likes or changing his status on whatsapp.

what are the consequences happening inside israel right now for dissenting voices? you have historically been one of the most prominent dissenting voices inside a serial. so, talk to us about that experience, both for you israelis, and palestinians inside israel. >> palestinians were stormed in the last year or so over the legal reform, namely, the danger to israel's democracy. what happened within israel, in the last month, is so much more dangerous than all of this reform. usually, in times of war, people get united, people are less -- to criticism. people become more nationalistic, more militarist a, and many times, even more racist. but what is happening now is unprecedented and very dangerous. if you are an arab citizen of

israel, the chance of you to get to jail because of quite an innocent tweet, or post, or blog, is quite high. but even if you are a leftist, a leftist like this teacher who tweeted some sympathy and solidarity, was sent to jail for four days now, five days. it is very intolerant, israel is not ready to hear any kind of empathy towards the victims. human feelings, the 500 children who are killed. even this is now treason. as for me personally, we talked over the more in 2015, i had bodyguards. right now, i don't need them. i don't know if i got older or israel became more tolerant, but i can tell you that the atmosphere is very, very threatening. not in terms of violence, in terms of the government trying to shut mouths. you cannot pay any solitary tv with the palestinian people.

nobody thinks about it. but wears the palestinian people? >> let me ask you finally, we're almost out of time, gideon, but in your piece for haaretz this week, you write, quote, israel is not looking reality straight in the eye. the chance for real soul searching after the war is therefore diminishing. what would it take for israel, and by extension, the united states, to acknowledge if any missteps they have made so far? >> the siege over gaza, which was aimed to guarantee security to israel, is not only in human, and in my view, also criminal, it is also not effective. secondly, that israel will be known to live on its soared forever. we cannot just believe that the

most -- barrier, which cost billions of dollars will really protect us from gaza. we have to change this skit, we have to realize that we have to try, the first time maybe a way that we never tried. a real way to get some kind of solution, if we want to continue to live in this area. and to believe only in the army, and to trust only the army, was proven already as a major mistake. i hope it will happen, but i have my doubts. >> gideon levy, it's always a pleasure to hear from you. thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate your insights, as always. >> thank you, ayman. >> take care, after the break, we are turning back to domestic politics and a major milestone for president biden's judicial confirmations.

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confirmed president biden's 150th federal judge, back to back votes made kenley kato and julia kobick, the newest additions to the bench, as district court judges in california and massachusetts respectively. their confirmations add to the record number of women and people of color appointed by president biden, which is a major goal of his when he began his first term. more black women have been confirmed to the u.s. appeals

court under president biden than under all previous presidents combined. record numbers of asian, pacific islander, and indigenous judges have also been appointed. and also don't forget the supreme court itself, which now has its first black female justice. ketanji brown jackson's work as a public defender also reflects the professional diversity of biden's picks, the bench has historically been made up of corporate lawyers, and ex prosecutors, but democrats have in recent years been pushing for more nominees with non traditional backgrounds. just last year, for example, democrats broke barack obama's record, said over eight years for confirming the most public defenders to appeals court judgeships. the majority leader, chuck schumer, says the senate are only getting started adding, quote, we are making the bench look more like america. it never did. there's another hour of ayman coming up after a quick break, don't go anywhere. yo u're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty.

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