it means a tremendous amount to me. ♪ show, five days until the u. s. government faces a possible disastrous shutdown. congressman mark pocan from wisconsin is here to discuss. that plus, he's called for a cessation of hostilities, but

all parties in the israel-hamas war are asking about that. and i will speak with the israel and palestine director of human rights watch about possible war crimes. also the big blue wave this week. what biden and democrats can take away from tuesday night's big election win. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. i am mehdi hasan. on saturday, president joe biden marked veterans day with a visit to arlington national cemetery in virginia. during his remarks, the president paid tribute to america's veterans and called them, quote, the steel spine of this nation. here is the message the former president, donald trump, chose to deliver last night for veterans day during a speech in new hampshire. >> the honor of our great

veterans on veterans day, and we pledge to you that we will root out the communists, marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country. >> look, ever since donald trump made his way down that escalator and burst on to the political scene in 2015, we've grown used to his frequently unhinged and abuse of rhetoric. but tonight, i want to talk about a specific word used by trump there. vermin. that's not a word we often hear used in everyday conversation. in fact, it's a very specific where that carries a very specific historical connotation. the word was frequently used by not seized to dehumanize jewish people during the holocaust. for example, according to historical accounts, in 1930, nine adolf hitler told the czech foreign minister, quote, this vermin must be destroyed, the jews are our sworn enemies. this isn't the first time trump has been caught echoing the rhetoric of not seize and white supremacists. a few weeks ago, he said undocumented immigrants were, quote, poisoning the blood of our country. which, again, echoes the

rhetoric of hitler -- similar lines in mein kampf. you have it. ex president and current front-runner for the gop nomination, not once but twice in the last few weeks, taking a page right out of hitler's nazification playbook. surely, the media must be all over this, calling out his dangerous rhetoric for what it is, right? sadly no. here's how the new york times took the donald trump remarks yesterday. the headline, read trump takes veterans day speech in a very different direction. i say red because they updated the -- veterans day speech, trump promises to root out the left. still not quite there. but it's a stark difference from the sanitizing they did the first time around. to be fair to the new york times, the same publication is out with some new and very important reporting on the very real dangers of a possible second trump term, especially when it comes to his immigration office. according to a bombshell piece that dropped yesterday, trump

is planning an extreme expansion of the first term crackdown on immigration if he returns to power in 2025. quote, including preparing to round up undocumented people already in the united states on a vast scale and detain them in sprawling camps while they wait to be expelled. yes, camps. that is not all, according to the times trump also promised to clamp down on illegal immigration. for example, during the second trump term, the visas of foreign students who participated in anti israel are pro palestinian protests would be canceled. u.s. officials abroad would be directed to expand ideological screening of these applicants, making it easier to block people that the trump administration considers to have, quote, undesirable attitudes. this is a man who doesn't just borrow the rhetoric and policies of dictators and demagogues, but openly admires and phrases them. again, he areas last night. >> president xi is like -- there is nobody in hollywood that can play the role of

president xi. and the look, the voice. and kim jong-un had a good relationship with. he's a tough, smart guy. >> he loves him. that new reporting from the times, by the way, comes on the heels of a story brought to you on this program last week. as detailed by the washington post, trump and allies have already been hashing out specific plans to use the justice department to punish -- should he win a second term. and also to deploy the military against protesters on him in -- 2025. these reports should terrify each and every one of us. trump isn't hiding his authoritarian ambitions for a second term. from punishing his political

opponents to locking up immigrants in camps, to deploying the military. all while echoing the hateful rhetoric of adolf hitler. we know exactly what we can expect if he retakes the white house in 2024. but hey, what was it about joe biden's age again? here to discuss more, jason stanley, a professor philosophy at yale university, also the author of how fascism works, the politics of us and them. jason, thanks for coming back on the show. let's start with trump's use of the word vermin. am i wrong to make the historical comparison to antisemitic propaganda during the not-so-years? >> no. i mean, this is -- this doesn't echo mein kampf, this is textbook mein kampf, except for an explicit mentioning of jews behind, left any antisemite we'll hear this from vocabulary directed against jews. but hitler himself was an antisemite, he took that jews were behind the international left, marxism, communism. but his real target was democracy, and anyone who was pro democracy or labor unions, trade unions, he labeled as marxists. this over broad use of marxist to target, basically, any political opponent, this is a familiar from fascism and the way you attack democracy. and of course, labeling you are political opponents vermin,

yeah, and the knots is targeted their political opponents, they targeted people who are in incarceration and concentration camps, they targeted suspected communists, socialists as eternal enemies. and of course, labeling you are political opponents vermin, yeah, and the knots is targeted their political opponents, they targeted people who are in incarceration and concentration camps, they targeted suspected communists, socialists as eternal enemies. this is right out of mein kampf. >> jason, there seems to be some collective amnesia even among members of the liberal left about just how bad the trump administration was, and the idea that because we have survived one term of trump we could surely survive another. it won't be that had the second time around. there are guardrails. how bad do you think a trump's second term could be compared to the first? >> mehdi, you and i talked

about this during the first trump administration. the way that people said it was -- he is just talking. as a result, when the coup came, when he attempted a coup, people were surprised, even though he was telling you he wasn't going to leave power. this is what is astounding about the vocabulary and rhetoric of authoritarians. nobody believes them. they tell you what they are going to do and nobody believes them. >> jason, let's talk about the other authoritarians. it is not just trump, there is a whole movement. listen to what republican national committee chair had to say today when asked about trump's remarks just this morning. >> are you comfortable with this language coming from the gop front runner? >> again, i'm not going to comment on candidates and their campaign messaging. >> campaign messaging now, that's what vermin is. jake, it is true to say, is it not, that there is no trump fascist threat without the constant enabling of the entire

republican party? >> and that was true about the not sees as well. it's exactly the same structure. the conservatives, the traditional, right in the alt-right, they -- hitler thought this was just a mad man, they could control him. we have to remember that throughout the 1930s, it wasn't yet the final solution. it was, you know, hunting down communists, hunting down -- shutting down the media, turning everything into loyalty to the commander. this is exactly what happens. the conservatives talk about they could control the person who's very openly and anti-democrat fascist. unfortunately, there are anchors -- echoes of history right here. >> too many echoes. jason stanley, always a pleasure. thank you for your time. let's continue this conversation with congressman mark pocan, a democrat from

wisconsin. congressman, thank you for coming back on the show. let's pick up where i just left off with jason stanley. we know republicans aren't taking the risks of trump's rhetoric seriously. they are happy to defend him. are democrats? would you call the ex president a fascist? >> thanks for having me, mehdi. i think clearly trump embodies everything that is against humanity. i have watched him since he's become president only get worse and worse and worse in the rhetoric. the rhetoric has gotten worse. i think if he came into office again you would see many fascist things happen under a second trump administration. i think we need to call him out, republicans are just plain afraid. all they do is play to their base. donald trump is successful with the most extreme elements in that base. therefore, donald trump is calling all the shots. i've said it before, it is not a political party for republicans anymore. it's a cult. a cult of personality. that is very dangerous. >> it's a cult of personality, and the personality is and incoherent, rambling, racist fascist. and yet, he is rivaling your

candidate, your leader, president joe biden in the polls. in fact, in some of the battleground states, he is leading in the polls. joe biden is behind in some of those key states. and then you throw in some of the third party candidates who are running, thinking of running, robert f. kennedy junior, cornell west, jill stein declared this week for the green party. we know the damage she did in 2016. and maybe joe manchin. things are not looking good for joe biden, are they? >> right now, a year out, when barack obama was running for reelection, in his poll numbers were down, there were pundits that said he should drop out of the race. there is many parallels. i'm not as worried.

i think at the end of the day, people are going to look at what we did, especially in those first two years when we had democratic majorities in the house and senate, with a white house rebuilding our nation's infrastructure, roads and bridges. water delivery systems, broadband. so much more. the most comprehensive climate change legislation, lowering the cost of health care and energy. we've got a lot to talk about. but right now, this is that period of time, just like it was for barack obama in a second term. >> congressman, let me jump in. i've made the bronco vomit comparison as well. it's a good comparison. having said, that barack obama -- for not, trump the personality cult, and he didn't have to worry about 3 to 4 independent candidates running third party. >> but romney could at least appeal to someone with a portion of a brain, right? donald trump has done nothing in four years to gain any additional support. in fact, he's lost. it places like wisconsin, when you look at suburban milwaukee, waukesha county in that area, those are fiscally conservative republicans who find donald trump reprints. if they are not necessarily going to go vote for donald trump again. maybe they will vote for one of these third party candidates. but i think at the end of the day, they are going to see you

either have a choice of joe biden or donald trump. >> yeah. >> i think many of those folks are going to look at donald trump and not be able to stomach him for four more years. >> before we get a, break and we've got a lot more to talk about with, you but i do have to ask you right now about a looming government shutdown now just five days away. yesterday, republican speaker mike johnson, the new speaker, introduced a two tiered, laddered continuing resolution, quote unquote, to fund the government. democratic senator chris murphy called that approach today gimmicky. but he said he is, quote, open to what the house is talking about. there are no cuts or poison pill cuts involved in this resolution. are you open to it as well in order to prevent the shutdown? >> here is the problem with it. the house republicans have proven themselves and capable of governing. last week, we had to appropriation bills that we did. hundreds of amendments and they couldn't pass the bills at the end of the day. there are middle schools that have student councils that are more effective, and probably insulting middle schoolers right now, than the u.s. house representatives under republican control. if we give multiple dates that we would actually potentially have a closed down, and that would be a real problem. at least it is better than maybe what we saw in some past proposals, but it is still very problematic when you have the congress and that is still unable to function like this congress. >> congressman, please stick

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have growing confidence and the death toll reports from gaza's health ministry. that's quite a shift from president biden's very controversial public remarks last month, where he said he had no notion the palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed. still with us is democratic congressman -- he released a statement last month calling for a cessation of hostilities by all parties, and for more humanitarian aid, but has not publicly supported calls for a cease-fire. congressman, are you comfortable with israel using u.s. supplied weapons and military aid to commit what they human rights watch his called possible war crimes in gaza? are you comfortable with this administration saying there are no limits on how israel uses american weapons and gaza? >> i think there's a lot more of us who are asking to put restrictions on anything that's going to go to israel. our question is, right now, i feel that this is a collective punishment on the palestinian people in gaza. this isn't about attacking hamas.

it was a horrific attack, and i think they have a right to go after hamas, but this is not -- 4500 kids are clearly not hamas. 40 buildings in northern gaza being demolished or destroyed is not about going specifically after hamas. and that's the problem right now that we're seeing. it's way too expensive by israel. and we're trying to call it out. many of us are saying, stop the bombing, substation of hostilities, cease-fire, and in common language, it's all the same -- with official language, it's a little different. but i think the bottom line is, what's happening right now is a little too aggressive on behalf of the israelis, and we need that to stop. >> he said it's about difference in language, but common language. let's get specific, congressman. all the world's major humanitarian aid groups, you and agencies, the u. n. secretary general, the head of the w. h. o., the pope, even the president of france this weekend have all called for a cease-fire in gaza. why haven't you and 95% of your congressional colleagues done the same? >> actually, many more have. part of the problem is there's the idea that a resolution in

congress was the best way to go forward. look, we just explained the clown show that i work with. there's no way a resolution is gonna pass through congress. -- that includes fighting for more humanitarian aid. i think a lot of groups missed that opportunity a few weeks ago when joe biden gave us a supplemental. we're right now doing a letter -- asking for a cease-fire, immediate cessation of hostilities. and what's the plan? because i don't think there's a plan at all. but what's the next step that are gonna happen? we are gonna have more signers in that resolution. in fact, what i recommended to the organizations out there, i've heard at least 40 members say essentially a cease-fire, including language that i use. but we need to put that out there just on a single resolution that everyone knows has no chance of passing isn't the only strategy. and i think unfortunately for too many weeks, people have only focused on that. and they're trying to pivot -- all these statements.

>> i get the point you're making. but your congressman who supported medicare for all, green new deal, stuff that can pass through congress either. and you say you support those things because it's aspirational. you want to set a standard. when i do that for a cease-fire? why not tonight say, look, i know it's not gonna get the congress, but i'd like to see a cease-fire? >> because i think we have two or four years to deal with it. this is got to be immediate. that's why we say immediately stop the bombing, immediate cessation of hostilities. a cease-fire, an official language, sets up a process

that eventually, two weeks or two months, you stop the bombing, that's too long. we need to stop the bombing now, and that's why we're trying to get more members to say that, and pushed the white house to say that. but i mean, come on, a resolution in congress with mike johnson is probably not gonna ever do the right thing. we all knew that. so let's make sure that we're forcing -- every possible way to make sure that no more bombs are hitting hospitals or schools or refugee camps. >> we've got less than 60 seconds left, but i have to ask you. you've been attacking the pro israel group, aipac. -- do you believe it distorts the debate over gaza and capitol hill? there's no palestinian version of aipac -- is there? >> last session, during the elections, there were two groups that came in and did something never before -- cyber currency and aipac, and spent millions in primaries -- the cryptocurrency guy just got prosecuted, right? so you only have aipac left. the problem is, they raise money from big republican entities, suspended in democratic primaries, and they're trying to scare members of congress from having a conscience on these issues. and they need to be called out, because they're really skirting campaign finance law, and it's ultimately, it's trojan horse money. it's republican money being spent to elect certain democrats. and at the end of the day, sometimes, they don't even support the democrats. they have over 100 insurrectionists in their endorsement.

so i'm gonna push back a lot on aipac. because they are exactly -- if the nra did it, we would all be up in arms. if the sacklers did it, we would be up in arms. we should be up in arms that a group like aipac is coming in and trying to make every election an auction rather than a reelection, spending more money than the candidates themselves, and we need to call them out for that. >> congressman, thank you so much for your time. >> share. thank you. >> coming up next, gaza hospitals on the brink. i'll speak with the israel and palestine director of human rights watch. don't go away. [deep exhale] [deep exhale] [trumpet music plays] 579 breaths to show 'em your stuff. every breath matters. don't like rsv take your breath away.

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than in gaza's -- hospitals and health care facilities. this week, the world health organization said it verified more than 250 attacks on hospitals, clinics, patients and ambulances inside of gaza since october the 7th. -- the besieged al-shifa hospital in gaza has seen some particularly hellish scenes since friday. perhaps none more shocking than this image of premature babies out of their incubators, wrapped in blankets, and lined up in rose on adult hospital beds. nbc news was unable to independently verify precisely when or where the image was taken, but a surge in al-shifa -- at least three babies have already died there, and another 36 infants are receiving lifesaving care and are at risk of also dying, as the -- medical supplies run out. and a spokesperson for the health ministry in gaza has said that snipers are positioned around the hospital

and are targeting, quote, anyone moving between buildings inside the hospital. israeli military would not acknowledge the presence of snipers around the hospital in a statement to nbc news, but the israelis do say that hamas militants have been occupying tunnels beneath the hospital, and claim nbc news as been unable to confirm, and one over which biden administration -- conflicting accounts. reminder that earlier this week, a spokesman for the israeli prime minister falsely claimed that palestinians in gaza where, quote, faking injuries for the cameras, tweeting a clip that turned out to be from a lebanese short film. that tweet of his is still up. palestinian officials have long warned that what israel is doing is not a counterterror operation against hamas, but a knock by against the palestinian people of gaza. -- expulsion from their lands during the creation of the state of israel in 1948. on seven-day night, israeli

minister and former security chief -- went on this really teller-ism to declare the current military operation a, quote, gaza nakba 2023. that's how it will end, he said. a gaza nakba. his words, not mine. to be clear, more than two thirds of gaza's population have already been displaced from their homes as a result of the israeli bombardment. that's more than the entire population of philadelphia. around 1. 7 million people. men, women, and children on the move. and more than 11,000 people total have been killed in gaza since october the 7th, according to the gaza health ministry. and the israeli foreign ministry said -- number of dead in israel -- [inaudible] aid for gaza, all -- [inaudible] -- israel and palestine director of human rights watch. thanks for coming on the show.

you are in high commissioner for human rights has said israel may be guilty of war crimes and gaza. prime minister benjamin netanyahu on meet the press this morning called those comments hogwash, and said israel doesn't target civilians, and any innocence who die in gaza are, quote, collateral damage. what's your response? human rights watch's response to that? >> there's no doubt that the israeli government has committed war crimes. and let's be clear. the israeli government was create committing crimes against humanity against palestinians before october 7th. and we've seen more war crimes taking place after october 7th. when you cut electricity, water, fuel, medicine and food to an entire population, to more than 2. 2 million people, half of whom are children, for the heinous acts of individual fighters, that is textbook collective punishment, which is a war crime.

using starvation as a weapon of war is a war crime. to block entirely the entry of lifesaving aid, you can monitor under the law, but not black, that is also a war crime. these really government has also bombed hospitals, schools, u. n. facilities, they've turned entire neighborhoods, or large parts of neighborhoods, into rubble. they've carried out -- they've used twice phosphorus, they carried that out -- unlawful strengths on human rights watch, and other human rights organizations have documented. we have a situation where most of the population has been displaced, and where they're struggling simply to survive. and we're seeing hospitals, medical facilities being under direct attack. and this is entirely a man-made crisis. the israeli government could stop the unlawful attacks, they could turn the tap on the water, they could flip the switch on the electricity, but they're not doing that. >> there is this argument in international law, as you know, that says medical facilities are protected from attack.

but if they become used as a base of operations for fighting, then they lose their protected status. the israelis are suggesting that's what happened at al-shifa hospital, because they came come hamas is operating a base underneath it, even though they haven't provided any evidence for that. if they could provide that evidence, would that be a valid argument? >> hospitals have special protections under international humanitarian law. doctors, ambulances must be permitted to do their work. there is a standard by which if acts are committed harmful to the enemy, those protections could be lost, but even if the israeli government put forward evidence but they claim that hamas was operating out of their, that's not been cooperated by human rights watch. that would not suffice to meet the high burden under international law. in addition, you must give an effective warning. you know these warnings that the israeli government has been providing aren't effective, because there's no safe place to go in gaza, and no safe way to get anywhere. so even if that evidence was shown, it doesn't meet the burden of law, and there's no

effective warning. and most importantly, hospitals cannot be free fire zones. not anybody can evacuate. those who cannot evacuate, like the doctors, the displaced people that are as we speak still struggling to survive in shifa hospital continue to have the protections -- international law against disproportionate, indiscriminate attacks. and the israeli government has a long track record of committing war crimes in this context, and they continue to attack hospitals in ways that do not meet international humanitarian law's standards. >> -- suggesting that both parties, israel and hamas, may be guilty of war crimes. but who's gonna hold them to account? who's going to get justice for their victims? the international criminal court? realistically, anyone? >> we have no choice, mehdi, but to push for accountability. the reason we're seeing these unprecedented atrocities as precisely because of years, decades of impunity, for unlawful attacks, for israel's

apartheid and persecution against millions of palestinians. but it's not just a matter of waiting for the international criminal court to act, and it's important to do act, and it's important that states are consistent and highlighting the international criminal court in their statements. but mehdi, as you noted in a previous statement, the united states and many other governments are providing arms and military assistance to the israeli government. they risk complicity in these war crimes with the further provision of military assistance and arms. there must be an arms embargo in the face of these unprecedented atrocities. now that is not just about what the israeli government is doing now. we're talking about the united states potentially being complicit in these significant atrocities. so for our u.s. audience. that needs to be in our focus. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for your time. coming up, it's been an up and down week for democrats, and certainly for president biden. what should the party learn

from the week that was as we look forward to 2024? we'll debate that with two party strategists. that's ahead. [car tires screeching] (♪♪) whenever heartburn strikes. get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. also available tums+ sleep support.

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against the gay community, and one couple's journey for acceptance. stick around for that special event following ayman. plus, don't forget, you can listen to the mehdi hasan show anytime, free, wherever you get your podcasts. now, richard lui is here with some other news we're watching tonight. >> -- u.s. military said it conducted more strikes in syria, in areas used by iran's revolutionary guard. the pentagon says these strikes are in response to attacks against u. s. personnel in iraq and syria. a u.s. official tells nbc news -- present for those attacks. this is the third time the u. s. conducted strikes in syria in just the last month. some new details -- new york city mayor eric adams, one of them whether adams -- despite safety concerns in 2021. fbi agents seized adam's electronic devices last week. he has not been accused of any wrongdoing. and iceland declared a state of emergency ahead of a possible volcanic eruption. about 4000 residents in the southwest part of the country have been told to evacuate. experts say recent earthquakes likely are connected to a magma tunnel moving near the earth's surface near iceland. more of the mehdi hasan show

after the break. southwest part of the country have been told to evacuate. experts say recent earthquakes likely are connected to a magma tunnel moving near the earth's surface near iceland. more of the mehdi hasan show after the break. and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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just from a year out in the sun. i'm still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. i did not want a dramatic change. i wanted something subtle. and i'm really, really happy with the results. it's still me, but with fewer lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. >> what a rollercoaster week

it's been for the democrats. let's start with last sunday. that's when we saw that brutal new york times cnn college poll showing donald trump beating president biden in several key 2024's swing states. surely that must have spell doom for democrats. on tuesday, when there are elections, it didn't, as voters delivered democrats decisive victories in virginia, kentucky, and ohio. but the champagne popping didn't last long, because on thursday, west virginia senator joe manchin announced he would not be running for reelection in 2024. not only -- major blow to democrats hopes

of holding on to the senate again next year, there's also a possibility manchin may run as a third-party spoiler candidates. speaking of, that same day, jill stein who ran unsuccessfully as it green party candidate in 2016 against trump and clinton announced her 2024 presidential run. hanging over all of this is the war in the middle east. recent polling shows biden support cratering with muslim american voters -- over his handling of israel siege on gaza. only 16% has said they would vote for him if the election were held today. so if you're a democrat right now, one day, things are looking up, the next, you could be toast. joining me now to talk about all this and the way forward, progressive democratic strategist and former justice democrat spokesperson, and matt bennett, cofounder of the centrist democratic think tank, third way, and a former staffer in the bill clinton white house. thank you both for joining me. waleed, let's start with.

you yearn to this rollercoaster of a week. are you worried about joe biden's reelection prospects? >> i know how important it is to defeat donald trump in 2024. and i'm extremely concerned about joe biden's own standing in the democratic party electorate. the numbers amongst young people and amongst arab and muslim democrats, the drop in the last month, it's a strike. i've never seen anything like it. arab and muslim democratic support for biden has dropped from 80% support to 6% support, according to one poll. in the recent gallup poll, he dropped seven points among young voters under the age of 30. and this is likely due to his handling of gaza, and this tight alliance with the far-right government of israel. the young people and arab and muslim democrats are an anti war demographic. they lived in the shadow of the war in afghanistan, the war in iraq, and i think they're deeply concerned of seeing a president who says, you know, we need to fight for multi racial democracy and against authoritarianism at home.

but meanwhile, aligning with one of the worst authoritarians and one of the most racist heads of state in the world, which is benjamin netanyahu. i think many voters are deeply concerned, and i think something is fundamentally broken in the electorate, and the trust i don't think can be rebuilt unless president biden takes enormous stands -- starts to draw some red lines with how netanyahu spends american money on weapons and gaza. the numbers of civilian casualties i think are very scary to a number of democrats who don't understand why their president is aligning with a trump like acolyte in the middle east. >> matt, when you see young voters tuning out because of gaza and other reasons, when you see the age issue not going away for joe biden, the good economic news not coming through, and even people like former obama advisor david alex allred saying, maybe biden should step aside, do you think, yeah, it's time for democrats

to have a plan b for the presidential elections? >> i do not. i think joe biden is one of the most successful presidents in modern american history. he's done extraordinary things. i certainly understand why people are nervous. i'm nervous. i don't like to see those kinds of numbers either. i think a few things are important to keep in mind. first of all, when you're a year out from the election, these kinds of polls are referendum polls. people are asking themselves, how do i feel about joe biden? of course -- not as much as we need to. most people got their lives -- [inaudible] they're gonna be judging joe biden on the stage in the election. by the time we get to next november, that, it's gonna be a choice between joe biden and donald trump. if you read today's new york times, you know that what donald trump has in store for a second term is absolutely terrifying. it should be terrifying to all

of us. to people like waleed as well. talk about authoritarianism. so i do believe that while things aren't great at the moment, over the course of the next year, things are gonna change dramatically, and i think -- come home to biden by the time we get to the election. >> matt, i wish i could walk about and go about my life and not think about donald trump. i really do. waleed, respond to what matt was saying there. do you really believe -- a lot of white, liberal voters watching the show tonight might say, young voters, people of color, muslims, arab americans, are they really gonna allow -- even though they're legitimately upset with joe biden -- are they really gonna allow donald trump to come back and bring in a bigger muslim ban? the port pro palestinian students? put migrants in camps, as new york times reports today. >> look, many of these same strategists and pundits and democratic party leaders told us not to worry in 2016, and the election of 2024 looks a lot like 2016.

like, donald trump said horrific things about muslims, about arabs, about mexicans, about women, about people with disabilities. people with disabilities, black lives matter, and still, he won the election, because part of the reason was, we didn't have enough turnout in key swing states like michigan. in 2016. and we're likely not gonna have that same kind of turnout in 2024. in michigan. so we don't have to look that far back to see what it's like to have an unpopular democratic candidate at the top of the ticket who is alienating key constituencies in their own party. this is what happened with hillary clinton. people told us not to panic. people told us everything was fine. and i just don't think that the partisan affiliation -- the partisan loyalty that young people or arabs and muslims have for the party is not that thick. it's very thin right now. >> okay. matt. last word to you. you are one of those people who are supporting clinton, telling people not to worry. respond to waleed this point right there. -- jill stein is already doing a

repeat of 2016. >> i'm extraordinarily worried about that. and listen. just to switch things around, in 2020, we were told by waleed, the joke biden was too old, too moderate, too white, too male to win this election. and he did. so -- head to head matchup against donald trump, we will win. because what voters have shown in both 2022 and last week, in 2023, when things that really matter are on the line -- reproductive freedom, democracy itself, they will do the right thing. they've done the right thing in the last two elections. i believe they will again. but if it's a multi candidate race -- that is what i worry about. so i really hope that people like joe manchin are not on the ballot, and it's a head to head of biden against trump.

>> waleed shahid, matt bennett, thank you both. appreciate you. coming up at the top of the hour with ayman mohyeldin, democratic congresswoman pramila jayapal will discuss republicans disastrous plans to avoid government shutdown this coming week. but also after the break, ayman we'll be here with me as we talk about a new potential vice presidential pick from donald trump. and yes, it's a terrifying one. stick around for that. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪

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we'll be right back here next sunday, eight pm eastern. you can now find the show on the msnbc hub on peacock. as well, new episodes air on thursdays. now it's time to hand it over to my good friend ayman mohyeldin. ayman, good evening. before i go, last night, donald trump turned up at ufc match in madison square garden, flanked by known other than that man of the people, tucker carlson, who i'm sure is a regular attendee of such fights. was trump sending a signal to the world that, forget the republican presidential debate on monday, forget all those folks running for vp, he's already made his choice, and it's the former fox host and fellow promoter of white supremacy. just this week, trump told pair of right-wing podcasters -- i like tucker a lot, i guess i would, he's got great common sense. and, yet this is a man who once, ayman, called trump a demonic force. >> how embarrassing for republicans that they lose out tucker carlson while they've been humility ending that

selves on that debate stage. but mehdi, i don't think i've ever seen anyone look more out of place at a sporting event and tucker carlson walking out with donald trump. you can almost feel the awkward shrieking laugh through the screen there. but look, are we really surprised that tucker carlson, who once said he, quote, hates him passionately, who even expressed his excitement at the idea of finally being able to ignore trump once he is out of office, has now pulled a full ted cruz and lindsey graham and gone all in on trump once again. tucker is gonna tucker, just the same exact way, just like every other republican who once tried to distance themselves from trump, or go after trump, has expressed disdain for him simply to turn around and kiss his ring. >> kiss his ring? but there's a price to come from kissing the ring, ayman. the vice presidential jake for trump is a dangerous job. the last guy who was his vp

almost got killed by a trump mob. good luck to tucker carlson with -- life expectancy that comes with that job. >> listen. tucker carlson thought it was just a normal day on january the 6th. maybe he didn't see that hang mike pence chance that maybe followed him if he becomes the vice president for donald trump and serve donald trump. who knows, right? anything is possible these days in the republican party. >> anything. great to see you, my friend. >> -- great to see you, enjoy the rest of your evening off. >> have a good show. >> thank, you my friend. >> tonight on ayman, the retribution campaign. donald trump's 2024 goal is to return to power to punish his political opponents. his chilling hopes as he seeks a second term. but second, republican dysfunction is bringing us to the brink of government shutdown yet again. i'll be joined in a moment by congresswoman pramila jayapal for her reaction. the chair of the progressive caucus. and jack smith's new legal strategy. what court