this is a big day for him, his 81st birthday. he also joked about that. take a listen. >> i just want you to know it's difficult turning 60. difficult. the national turkey presentation marks the unofficial start of the holiday season where here in washington, a time to share joy and gratitude and have a little bit of fun. this is the 76th anniversary of this event. and i want you to know i wasn't there on the first one. i was too young to make it up. >> as you can hear, chris, the audience gobbled it up. happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving, gabe. that's going to do it for us. "katy tur reports" starts right now. good to be with you, i'm katy tur, for the first time today, we the public got to listen in on donald trump's election interference case, the

one special counsel jack smith brought regarding the lead-up to and the after math of january 6th. today in federal court, we heard both lawyers for the special counsel and donald trump square off over the limited gag order judge tanya chutkan imposed a couple of weeks ago. we'll play the audio in a second. first, quick context. the gag order stops donald trump from publicly disparaging prosecutors, potential witnesses or court employees involved in the case. jack smith's team wants it saying it's necessary to keep people safe. donald trump's team is appealing it saying it violates his free speech and ability to campaign. and while the d.c. circuit court of appeals has yet to rule, we did get come hints. take this exchange, where judge millet presses donald trump's team on whether their arguments that it's unconstitutional to limit the political speech of a candidate would stand if donald trump were not running for

office. >> would your position be a different a year ago? >> i think the gag order would beunconstitutional. >> would your position be any different? >> i don't see how it would be different. campaign going on does not matter. what matters to you, and this is still pital speech, which gets vy high protection no ubt. >> i wouldn't put it that way. i think the campaign, in other words, we have a whole -- >> you said your position would be no different if it were a year ago. >> there was this exchange, where trump's team was asked to clarify where they would draw the line regarding speaking to or about witnesses, as in when is it okay to use free speech to call out a witness and interact with a witness, and when is it not okay. >> if he were to pick up the phone and call someone that is known to him to be a witness, a prospective witness in this case, andpeak with that person without counsel presen would

that -- that would violate the restriction undoubtedly, would the first amendment protecthat communication underour test? >> we have not contended that. >> that's not what i'm asking. i'm asking you to apply the test you propose. we have to write a test that can be applied. and we have to know how it's going to be applied. i'm asking your position, your legal position, would that phone call be protected by the first amendment or not? >> is that happy thanksgiving or -- >> i'm not telling you why because the order, the pre-release, the release restriction doesn't care about the content. >> jack smith's team also faced some tough questioning on the extent to which the gag order could inhibit donald trump from publicly defending himself, but on the issue of threats, at least one judge acknowledged that the results of donald tr language is scary, and that being a juror could be dangerou >> let's say i'm a prospective

juror, can i be protected technologically? >> you're askingf there are available techns that would remove you personal information. >> filter, if things come through that are fast and furious from strangers. i mean, because it does seem like there's a real phenomenon that is actually quite disabling and terrifying. >> let's break this down. joining us is justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, can i go big picture with you and get your sense of where this is going? >> well, kudos to you and your producers, katy, those were well chosen exchanges that i think encapsulated two hours of oral arguments, and i think what we can glean from those and other exchanges is that these judges clearly are leaning towards instating this gag order, it's on hold pending the appeal. they may well narrow some of the language.

they did grill cecil vander, the lawyer for the smith team about the implications of some of the language in the order, for example, what does targeting mean. what does it mean to target a witness. that exchange you played about communications with a witness really encapsulated what the judge's common sense question s which they could not get donald trump to answer, which is if something is improper, transmitted over the telephone, why is it first amendment protected. there's certain things, even though they are broadcast to a larger audience, they are clearly intended for or at least have the impact of influencing a juror, a potential witness, provoking threats to prosecutors and court personnel. the judges clearly seem to take that position and it does appear that they will move forward with reinstating the gag order, and then of course we can expect that it will be properly appealed to the supreme court. >> let me ask you about jack smith's team, there was some

pushback on how far the gag order might go. can you explain that? >> yeah, well, they want -- these judges are very mindful of the fact that speech by a presidential candidate is the most protected speech, and they want to make sure donald trump is allowed to criticize his political opponents. the justice department or president biden or even saying this case was rigged. they want to be more narrowly tailored about restricting, tampering with witnesses or influencing the jury and not just criticizing the politics of what's happening and that's where they tried to draw the line. they were closely questioning smith's team about those issues. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. and joining us now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa rubin, and former u.s. attorney, and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade.

kudos to my producer for getting the sound bytes in, and you, lisa rubin for pointing out the last one when it comes to violence. can i ask you a little bit more about the arguments, excuse me, that donald trump's team was making. ken alluded to it, he should be able to say what he wants on social media, on a rally, and the judges, how do they make that decision between political speech, i'm going to say whatever i want, i'm going to defend myself, and witness intimidation. >> it's not just witness intimidation, it's participant intimidation, and their concern isn't just the witnesses but the prosecutors in the case, the courtroom personnel, and even the jurors, and one of the things of particular concern to the special counsel's offices is how will some of this criticism of other participants in the process, including witnesses, how will that be perceived by jurors so even if you, katy tur, as a witness aren't intimidated. if i lisa rubin, a juror, walk away with a different impression of you because donald trump day in and day out is attacking you

on truth social or other media, doesn't that infect the administration of justice, so to speak. >> the idea of violence, the trump team argued that you can't just say that there's going to be violence without there actually being violence. what donald trump has said regarding this case hasn't resulted in anything concrete, and this is what they're arguing. and it's basically minority report. you can't go out there and judg hasn't happened. the judges didn't buy that, why? they didn't buy that on two fronts, one, they said we shouldn't have to wait for someone to get hurt to take prophylactic steps to protect the integrity of the administration of justice and to ensure the safety of witnesses and other participants, but the other thing they didn't buy was john sauer's insistence that anything donald trump has said had concrete impact and they said wait a second, shortly

after the indictment, he said if you're coming after me, i'm coming after you, and shortly thereafter judge chutkan was threatened by a woman in texas. he tried to diminish that case, and said that's a crazy alcoholic f you look at her te tension order, there are a number of factors in her case, a long history of substance abuse. and the judges weren't having that either, if you are going to go o social media in this era, how do you know that mr. shry who's the defendant in that case, is the only one willing to follow what donald trump said to its logical conclusion. the answer is we don't. we don't know how many possible lone wolves are out there hanging on his every word. >> i wonder if when this gets decided there might be limits imposed on this gag order making it more limited than it is. judge engoron, he said just

don't talk about my staff. would we see a situation where the panel says, okay, you can't say x, y, and z, but judge chutkan, you're going to be fair game, barbara? >> yeah, in fact, the judge's order already has some carveouts. donald trump can say anything he wants about the biden administration, about the department of justice, about this prosecution, and even about judge chutkan herself, he just can't talk about the parties, the witnesses, the jurors or court staff. i think one of the things that donald trump's lawyers are doing here is framing this issue in a way that is helpful to donald trump and incredibly misleading. one of the things you have learned about is framing the argument in a way that favors your side. they're talking about a statute passed by congress to restrict the speech of a candidate. that's not what this is at all. this is an order to restrict the

speech of a defendant in a high profile criminal case, and the judge has a duty to protect the integrity of the case and also the safety of the parties involved. and so i think that we are going to see this order upheld, perhaps a narrowing of it, you know, court orders under the first amendment are supposed to be narrowly tailored, so as you say, perhaps narrowing to further define what it means to target someone, for example, but i don't see the court ending this gag order anytime soon. >> if they uphold it, and it goes to the supreme court, do you have any educated predictions on how that court might hear this, barbara? >> i think similarly. i think they'll follow the law, and the leading supreme court case on this is a case on shepherd versus maxwell, the case that inspired the television show "the fugitive," the supreme court said the courts have an obligation to ensure jury trials do not take on a circus like atmosphere, that is to protect the parties,

to protect the integrity of the case. as long as that's what the court is doing, i think it will be of help. >> the advice at the top had to do with whether donald trump was running for president or not, whether it would matter. why is political speech such a high bar. why does it matter that the judges push back on trump's attorneys and said this would be a violation of free speech, if it happened a year ago before he was officially running for president. >> theoretically, it would matter in two ways, right, he wasn't talking about the participants in this case with the same degree, but also we do recognize special protections under the first amendment for political speech. core political speech is one of the most protected categories of speech that we can have, and their question to him was, are you really advocating for a lower standard and a lower bar because of who he is or are you advocating for a broad protection on all political speech, and he could be joe q public, and you would say the same thing. >> we got to have a rule that can be applied beyond just

donald trump, the person on trial right now. one word to you, barbara. if this gets reinstated and donald trump violates this gag order. how tricky is the position that judge chutkan is in? >> i think it's very tricky. ordinarily when someone violates a gag order, the first violation will be a warning and a fine and the amount escalates. at some point, if donald trump continues to violate an order with impunity, the ultimate weapon she has is jail time. and i think she would be very loathe to jail him for a lot of reasons. one of which is the public's right to hear what he has to say on this campaign. and so i think jail will be very last resort, but it is a power that she holds over him, and i think donald trump doesn't want to go to jail while camping. >> i'm continually surprised at the wild times we find ourselves in and the conversations we are having about the current state of things and the people running for office. barbara mcquade, lisa rubin,

ladies, thank you very much. what house speaker mike johnson is doing to keep a promise to far right republicans regarding january 6th. plus, president biden hits a new polling low. what voters are saying about him now. first up, though, what u.s. officials are saying about a deal to release israelis kidnapped by hamas. hint, they're close. we're back in 60 seconds. e clos. we're back in 60 seconds whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today.

now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ students... students of any age, from anywhere. using our technology to power different ways of learning. so when minds grow, opportunities follow. ♪ they are close. 45 days after hamas terrorists kidnapped hundreds of israeli women and children and grandparents, u.s. officials say they are hopeful that they are close to a deal to get a group of them back. but while the negotiation is positive so far, those same officials warn nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to. meantime, israel is releasing evidence they say proves hamas was using al shifa hospital as a base of operations, showing

video from inside a tunnel underneath the hospital of a long spiral staircase, which we have, we'll show you in a second, that leads to a door with a firing hole, along with the video we're showing you now, cctv footage from inside the hospital time stamped october 7th. the israelis say that shows two hostages being taken inside the hospital. nbc news hat not independently verified the surveillance video of the idfs claims. they said soldiers recovered the bodies of two other hostages from a building adjacent to the hospital. joining us now from tel aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent, raf sanchez. let's start, i know we're going to talk about hostages, but i want to start with the evidence that israel says it's putting forth regarding al shifa hospital. so much discussion has been had about whether it's fair that they have raided that hospital. tell me what the israelis are claiming and what nbc news has been able to verify.

>> reporter: so, katy, over the weekends, the israeli military releasing more footage from al shifa hospital, which it says is further evidence of its claim that hamas was operating out of the largest medical facility in gaza. as you mentioned, there's two videos here. let's start with that tunnel. they are saying this is a spiral staircase, 10 meters down that leads to a 55 meter tunnel, and at the end of that tunnel, the israeli military says is a glass door, designed to withstand heavy explosives, and in the heart of the glass door is what the israeli military is saying is a firing hole, which is designed for an ak-47 or an assault rifle to be pointed out of it, and fire on advancing troops. nbc news cannot verify the claim that this is a hamas tunnel. we have been able to geo locate this video. we can tell our viewers, whatever it is, it is on the

grounds of al shifa hospital. also releasing the cctv footage from the morning of saturday, october 7th. and they say it shows two hostages one from thailand, one from nepal being taken into the hospital around 10:30 in the morning. they're saying this is proof that even within hours of the attacks, the terrorist attack on october 7th, that al shifa was being used by hamas. hamas is saying this is merely a sign that they were treating the wounded hostages, and that they were determined to give them medical care. >> wounded hostages that they took from israel and brought into gaza. underscore that. let me ask you about what's been happening inside that hospital and what has happened regarding the innocent gazans. those babies that were on -- premature babies that were on incubators for assistance. what has happened to them, and

are they oak? >> some are okay. 28 were carried from gaza to the rafah crossing to the relative safety of egypt. egyptian doctors are saying some of them are in pretty serious condition, as you can imagine, these are tiny, tiny lives. these are babies younger than the war they were born into. they have been out of their incubators for more than a week now in a hospital without running water, without food, besieged by israeli forces. egyptian doctor says a number of them are being flown to cairo for intensive medical treatment. 28 crossed the border. there were originally 39 in the neonatal unit. doctors say eight of them died over the course of the week. some in shifa, some during the evacuation, and then there are three more we have not been able to account for. but it sounds like they are still in the south of gaza in a

hospital. the whole world has been transfixed in horror with the fate of little innocents caught up in the war that has nothing to do with them. people all over the world hoping they will be okay. >> raf, thank you so much. the middle east project and israeli peace negotiator during the oslo accords in the 1990s, daniel levy. thank you for being with us. let's talk about the other people we're hoping and praying for them, a lot of them women and children, little kids, grandparents as well. the u.s. says it appears that they are close to a deal. israel and hamas, to release a group of them. talk to me about the ins and outs here. what makes this so complicated? >> can i just first say that those images, katy, if that's not reason enough for those who oppose the cease fire, including unfortunately the president of the united states to change their position to 4 1/2 thousand

palestinian children who have been killed since october 7th, i'm at a loss. i don't know what is. now, there's a link between that and the question you asked me regarding this prisoner release, because in the absence of the u.s., the country with the most leverage, the closest to israel, pushing for a cease fire, perhaps the onramp to ending this hell is this prisoner release, and all the things i'm hearing, katy, is as you said, as you've reported, we're closer but it's not done until it's done. now, it's complicated. what exactly will be in exchange for the release. initially i believe it will be most of the young female elderly, sick, civilians his or her being held in gaza and who are reachable by hamas. hamas is the not the only group

holding israelis in gaza. in exchange for that, there will be a several day cessation of hostilities. will israel fly drones during that release. the details of exactly how many. israel holds women and children, palestinians in its prisons. who exactly will be released in exchange? those are the details, it seems. and let's be clear, this kind of a deal was available four weeks ago before the israeli ground incursion. the israelis are saying now because of the pressure, the deal can be done. if that's the victory now they need in order to get there. that's fine, let them have that narrative, and now we need a yes. and i think the party holding back from that yes is more on the israeli officials side. there have been credible reports in israel of divisions within the israeli war cabinet. there is very significant pressure from the families, unsurprisingly, from the

families of those being held. there was a long march to jerusalem. to prioritize getting the israelis out. doing the deal, agree to the negotiation package and that's where we're at right now. >> can i ask you a broader question, bigger picture question, this is regarding what happens next and whether -- and what cannot resolve the situation because that's, you know, a far cry, but what can ease the tensions in a long-term way. the israeli government is currently formed with benjamin netanyahu at its head is just completely dismissing the idea of a two-state solution. they say it's just not possible. at least they're not going to talk about it right now. there are so many within israeli, israeli citizens who think going back to what was happening before without a two-state solution was insane. it didn't work then and can't work again. how do we get to a point where the israelis are able to then

credibly negotiate if they're going to get to a two-state solution with a palestinian leadership in however it gets formed. can they possibly do that with something like hamas? >> we need to put the building blocks in place, katy, and you touched on many of those. first of all, i don't think people have been paying attention. the israeli government doesn't say, we're not ready for a two-state solution. we have openly and proudly advocated ethnic cleansing of palestinians. that's the position of senior ministers. >> those are the far right ministers that netanyahu has aligned himself with. but they're not representative of all israelis, i want to put that out there. >> important but it goes deep into netanyahu's party. you would shutter at what members of the party are saying as well. we have not been paying

attention to what's going on there, and the longer they are in power, the worse this gets. now, the center isn't offering a strong alternative. but here is where it would be about what's the context in which they operate. what is the incentive package and the disincentives created for forward progress. i think three simple things we could take away from this, number one, if the u.s. and others act as the guarantors, that israel will not be held accountable when it violates international law. israel will be treated with immunity, then israelis take the easy choice and the easy choice not to do anything or to do worse things. number one, israel has to have the correct incentive and disincentive structure. the palestinians need a leadership that can unify their people that is credible, legitimate in the eyes of their people. it sounds incredibly farfetched

to think that will have to include hamas. the israelis have done what they have done to the palestinians. the palestinians aren't exactly excited to be negotiating with them. both sides, again, have to include some of the hazard -- hard liners, and finally we are going to need to be serious with the arab states and others, and the normalization accords led by trump, gave israel regional relations without doing anything on the palestinian side skprgs and that sent the wrong signal. >> daniel levy, thank you so much for joining us. sorry for asking such a big question on a tight time frame. it is a complicated subject. thank you. coming up next, what speaker mike johnson is releasing to make good on a promise to the far right of this country, and why now. and president biden, what young voters are unhappy with, coming up. coming up.

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let's hope president biden's aides at least said happy birthday before dropping the latest round of polling on him. nbc news now finds his approval rating the lowest of his presidency. not exactly a happy birthday. joining us now, nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki. why, steve, did it drop down yet again, and where does he currently stand? >> yeah, probably one big cause of this, but it is part of a pattern we've seen throughout the year where he currently stands is a 40% job approval

rating, nearly 60%, 57 now say they disapprove of the president's handling of the job. go back to the start of this year. january of this year, remember, biden and his party were coming off a strong midterm in 2022. 46 approve, 50 disapprove, and this year through a series of events, a series of developments, he's fallen to 40. that is the lowest we have measured him at during his presidency. the immediate cause is foreign policy, the events of the middle east, his approval rating on foreign policy in our poll is 33%. we asked about this in our last poll in september, too. it was before the events of october 7th. before the war broke out, well, he was doing much better on this question. not great but he had a 41% approval rating. now down to 33. ask specifically about the israel-hamas war and how biden is handling that.

again, it kind of looks like his foreign policy numbers overall. where it gets interesting is the generational gap on this one. take a look at voters over 65. the oldest voters, he'll actually doing well with his handling of the war. then go to the other end of the speck truck. 20% approve, 70% disapprove. that's 50 points underwater. a net difference of 62 points between the youngest and oldest voters on the question of biden and this war and how he's handling it. what that does add up to. we match biden against trump. trump at 46. biden at 44. close race obviously, but the significance there, katy, this is the 16th time since the start of 2019 that we have polled biden versus trump, and this is the first time in all of those 16 polls that we have found trump with more support than

biden. >> steve kornacki, thank you very much. and joining us now, the cochair of the freedom house board of trustees, former congresswoman jane harmon, ranking member of the intelligence committee for four years after 9/11. thank you so much for being with us, congresswoman. we appreciate it. let me ask you about those numbers for president biden and why you think he's dropping amid the israel-hamas war, especially among young people. >> i'm not a polling expert, i did win 17 races for the house, nine general elections, and eight primaries and a lot of them were really rugged. one of them i was down 250 votes on election night, and had to crawl out of my hole when all of the votes were counted and win by a whopping 811 votes. that was my first reelection in 1994, the year newt gingrich came to congress. what did i learn from that, first of all, it's not a picnic running for congress. second of all, poll numbers a year out are worthless.

i don't begrudge folks who want to poll now, but i don't think this is a poll between biden and trump, this is a referendum on kids on whether they like biden's israel-hamas policy. let me make two points about that. one, kids don't vote. unfortunately, the turnout of that age group is around 20%. >> you're talking about 18 to 34? >> well, okay, 18 to 22. okay. fine. i bet those are the worst numbers. look at college campus, but a point on that, i think what israel has learned painfully, war has two dimensions, the military dimension and the hearts and minds dimension, and i don't think they took adequate account of that in a climate where there is weaponized disinformation. hamas is really good at that.

they're really good at claiming everything wrong in two seconds and having it go viral around the world. and is beginning to do that, including declassifying some intelligence, learning from our playbook, which is very helpful. what is my bottom line here? i think these numbers will change. i think the situation in israel, gaza is changing, as we speak, your last commentator was very interesting about that. if there is, i'm not in favor of a cease fire, but i am in favor of a pause in exchange of prisoners and humanitarian calls, and maybe on a regular basis. an exchange of prisoners if that can be worked out fairly, especially getting those who were kidnapped and brutally hurt on october 7th back first, that would be really good. at any rate, i think those numbers will change. i think the polls i'm going to pay attention to are much later next year, and oh, by the way, i

don't know that donald trump will be the republican candidate. i think joe biden and kamala harris will be on the democratic side, but i think the republican choice is going to be in flux, because wait for those polls, essentially, if there's more developments on the trial side for trump. >> who knows how the trials come to pass. the u.s. doesn't agree there should be a cease fire either, and it is hurting the president, this administration standing among young people. why not? why don't you believe a cease fire is worth it, especially after all we're seeing in gaza, and how much of gaza is leveled. >> my heart breaks for the loss of human life of innocent civilians on both sides. remember, it started on october 7th with the loss of israeli life on one side, but nonetheless. the loss of human life on both

sides, sadly, hamas, as we have learned, has put its military weapons and centers underneath hospitals deliberately because the palestinians to them or the gazans are human shields, and they don't care. i think israel has to root out hamas leadership in gaza, one of its goals, so how else is it supposed to do that other than go after them, unless there is some other way and some negotiation and the hamas leadership surrenders. i think a fat chance of that. what's wrong with the cease fire is it will give hamas a chance to regroup. they know where all the tunnels are. israel has destroyed some of them, but they are ruthless and dedicated still. they said this to destroying israel. by my lights, joe biden is right, and so are a lot of other people, but joe biden says no cease fire. a humanitarian pause, maybe on a

regular basis, certainly getting the prisoners back mandatory. but i think not a good idea. one more point, i mean, what is the real day after? where's the long-term solution? i agree with joe biden, two-state solution, with responsible government on both sides dedicated to the success of the two states. and a neighborhood, let's go there, let's not talk out of both sides of our mouths, let's have the arab states surrounding palestine and israel step up and before this and help with reparations in gaza and so forth, and then maybe, maybe i'm smoking something, peace in the middle east. maybe this horrible series of events will lead to that, and maybe kids, when they see that as an option will change their minds on joe biden. >> it takes a village. jane harman, thank you very much for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you, katy. coming up, how a supreme

court ruling is getting in the way of a man's family suing border agents who killed him in his own backyard. first, though, what has democrats so worried about the release of tens of thousands of hours of security footage of the january 6th attack on the capitol hill. oh, no, not about that. about what comes next in life. for her. i may not be in perfect health, but i want to stay in my home, where my family visits often and where my memories are. i can do it with help from a prep cook, wardrobe assistant and stylist, someone to help me live right at home. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪ ♪

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and they're anti-aging. because you're more likely to die younger from a stroke. in big tobacco's fantasyland, the deadliest industry can rebrand itself as your friend. house speaker mike johnson is making good on a promise he made to the far right members of his party, releasing 44,000, i'm

sorry, yeah, 44,000 hours, sorry, of surveillance footage from the january 6th insurrection. at the same time, in the upper chamber, the senior republican senator from utah is pushing a debunked conspiracy theory about a rioter from that day. joining us now with all the absurd di, ryan reilly, author of the new book "sedition hunters, how january 6th broke the justice system," please do go out and buy it. you've talked about a good portion of it, if not all of it. >> certainly what happened is on january 6th, this individual named kevin lyons was leaving the capitol, and as he was coming out, an fbi s.w.a.t team was coming in. he instinctively showed his palms, opened up his hands. what happened over the weekend after this footage was released, somebody took a screen shot and said the object he was holding in his hand, which appeared to be a vape that he was holding earlier in the day was actually a badge, and that this was an

undercover officer operating secretly as a maga supporter. as it turns out, they didn't know who the individual was. it was someone i covered in the book and someone i covered the sentencing hearing. and he's sitting in prison, a raw deal for him if he is, in fact, a federal agent, and what he was flashing appeared to be a vape he was holding earlier in the day. and it was just one of these other moments that was sort of easily debunked, but then mike lee jumped upon over the weekend, and said he wanted to question the fbi director chris wray about, and some other figures on the far right have backed away from the conspiracy theory, but mike lee hasn't. in fact, when i reached out to his office foromnt, they basically pivoted to another conspiracy theory that has been debunked. now that all of these videos are coming out, you can expect to see more of the garbage floating out there. it's important for people to be cognizant of what they're looking at and know the proper context of what they're looking

at. it's easy to get tricked and fooled by bad actors in this case. >> let me ask you about mike lee. i know you were just talking about that. the idea that he's just going out there with this thing that is debunked, can you explain what the argument may be on pushing it again and asking the fbi director about it? >> yeah, i mean, that's really what the release of these videos are about. theoretically, releasing more january 6th video shouldn't be good for republicans. what happened was awful that day, but there's a significant portion of the republican party believes that there's going to be this secret key, this grand conspiracy that they're going to uncover and that the fbi was secretly behind this or pushing this or that federal agents were pulling all the strings behind the scenes. last week there was discussion about ghost buses in union station suggesting that the fbi had loaded a bunch of fake trump supporters into a bus and unleashed them on the capitol. it's really far out there, bizarre stuff, really laughable, frankly. a lot of the republican base

believes a lot of this, just as they believed the conspiracy theories that led to january 6th in the first place. it's important to be on top of these, and debunk them as they come up. >> heavy sigh, ryan reilly, thank you very much, appreciate it. coming up, the family of a man shot and killed by border patrol agents in his own backyard may face an up hill battle as they seek justice. what a supreme court ruling has to do with it. don't go anywhere. dwith it. don't go anywhere. a burning, stinging, 5-times-a-day,... ...makeup smearing drops user. i want another option that's not another drop. tyrvaya. it's not another drop. it's the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. tyrvaya treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease fast by helping your body produce its own real tears. common side effects include sneezing, cough, and throat and nose irritation. relying only on drops? not me. my own real tears are my relief. ask your eye doctor about tyrvaya. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier.

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>> what happened and what is matteo's family doing now? >> i covered this when this happened in july, our supreme court reporter realizes this is a part of a national story because his family cannot go after these individual law- enforcement officers because it has become increasingly hard for families to seek damages from officers because of a supreme court decision. since that decision, 15 out of 16 claims brought against federal officers had been dismissed.

this was a national story but for his family, it feels deeply personal. >> he was a good man and did not deserve to die like this. >> the family of raymond says his death does not make sense. >> he was and not acting erratic, he was complying and they shot him. 58-year-old was just steps away from his home when border patrol agents approached him with guns drawn. the report says they were responding to a call of shots fired in the area about a mile from the u.s./mexico border. what they found was raymond. and shaky body camera video, you can see him first tossing a sheathing my tat -- machete. and then dropping another object before firing dozens of rounds,

nine bullets hit him, a cell phone, not a weapon was found on the ground nearby. the whole interaction took less than a minute. >> i do not know what they were thinking, they did not talk to him, he was not a threat. >> we stand firm in our belief that ray was approached with excessive and deadly force. >> they are filing a wrongful death claim, it may be their only recourse. federal prosecutors have already said there will be no criminal charges. in 2022, supreme court ruling provides cover for federal agents accused of excessive force. the court ruling a year ago introduced a new legal test that makes it virtually impossible to file claims alleging constitutional violations against individual federal officials including excessive force. the conservative majority cited national security concerns. >> will kind of message do you

think thfear of litigation is very real, all their personal assets are at risk. it does give a level of assurance that their employer and government will not let them go out and do a job. >> the nbc news legal database search found it has been cited 228 times in lower court cases. 195 cases, constitutional claims were dismissed. >> we felt like we could trust someone to be held accountable, we feel like our civil rights were violated. they can get away with doing this to ray, who's to say it will not happen to us? >> cbp said in a statement that maintaining the blic trust is vital to the mission. when incidents occur, investigations are conducted independently, thoroughly, and with proper oversight. they hold employees accountable when policies are violated.

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of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ the best decision she made -- he made was to marry his wife. his equal and everything accomplished, after 77 years of marriage, president jimmy carter lost rosalynn carter. nbc news correspondent blaine alexander has the story. >> reporter: to her years of global humanitarian work, to the white house, rosalynn carter dedicated her life to public service. to her beloved husband, former president jimmy carter. all while blazing trails in her own right, this former

president is remembering his wife and best friend of nearly 80 years. rosalynn carter was my equal partner in everything i ever accomplished, she gave me wise guidance and encouragement when i needed it as long as rosalynn was in the world, i always knew somebody loved and supported me. now tributes are pouring in from every corner of the globe. the president and first lady writing that rosalynn did so much to address many of societies greatest needs. we always felt her warmth, hope, and optimism. >> it is my pleasure to introduce someone whom i love and respect, and cherish. my wife, rosalynn. >> the carter's story marriage stretched more than 77 years. longer than any other first couple in history. born eleanor rosalynn smith in plains, georgia. she grew up next door to the future president who was three years her senior. >> he graduated high school and left at 16, i was 13. he was way beyond my reach. >> they married in 1946 and

became life partners from the peanut farms in georgia all the way to the white house when she was influential on the campaign to get there. >> when they get to know him, they go for him. >> she is completely objective and unbiased. >> i love politics. >> misses carter would attend catholic meetings and became the first lady to hold an office in the east wing. >> i give him advice and he does not always follow through. >> she used her position to champion her own causes, a fierce advocate for mental health and better care for the elderly. the carter's continue that work when they left the white house, founding the carter center more than 40 years ago. in 1999, they were each awarded the presidential medal of freedom. >> i think that was one of the happiest times of my life, there is wife -- life after the white house. >> deadline white house starts right now. right now.