night, targeting a command and control center and an operations center for that same militia group, kataib hezbollah. we do know some of these kh fighters were inside these buildings at the time. but at this point we still don't have a sense of how many may have been killed in the strike set. >> thank you again. 70 attacks since october 17th. a serious increase in hostilities out there. courtney kube, courtney, thank you very much. and that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone, it is 4:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. we start with breaking news this afternoon. two people are dead after a vehicle crashed and exploded at the border between the united states and canada in niagara falls. the very top of this video, you can see a car that appears to be traveling at high speed. it launches into the air and disappears off screen. according to law enforcement,

the vehicle crashed into the rainbow bridge checkpoint structure and caught fire and exploded. the two occupants of the vehicle are now dead, and one customs and border patrol officer sustained minor injuries that did not require hospitalization. authorities did not find a secondary explosive or device. the white house says they are monitoring the situation closely, and the canada border service agency says it is working with the u.s. counterparts on this matter. the fbi is now investigating this cnn and whether or not the crash was intentional. joining us now, nbc news investigative correspondent tom winter, former fbi counterintelligence agent peter strzok is back with us, and joining us by phone former assistant doppler radar for counterintelligence, tom figliuzzi. why don't you give us a talk about how this all went down. >> sure. basically, what happens here, there is a vehicle. the color of the vehicle is white, as you saw on screen in that exclusive video. and it's traveling at a very high rate of speed.

now a witness interview says the vehicle at some point tries to pass or get around another vehicle. clearly hits a median, goes airborne right there, as we're looking at, and then crashes into this customs and border patrol facility that is part of the whole bridge security apparatus and customs and border checkpoint apparatus at this bridge. at this point, there is some sort of an explosion, which is what any witness would hear if they heard a car going that fast airborne, think of it, going over a fence. you can see a fence in the background there, and then enters into this compound. there is an explosion. and at that point, the fuel tank catches on fire, as you can see. and as you're seeing the flame kind of move from left to right in this video, and we'll watch it here again a second time, but i want comes up a second time, that's very indicative of a flame coming out of the gas. as the gas starts to come out of the fuel tank, it will go across the roadway, catches fire, and from there, it will travel

wherever the fuel goes. of course its tendency is to catch on fire. it's gas. that's what we see. there is no indication, as we've been reporting with my colleague jonathan dienst, at least for u.s. law enforcement officials, i think it's more than that now i've lost count who have said there is no indication whatsoever that there were any explosives in the vehicle. in other words, there wasn't a bomb in the vehicle as well as the fuel tank catching on fire and exploding. there is no indication that there were any sort of secondary devices, meaning a device that was found outside of the vehicle. they've swept that facility. as you reported, there is a number of border crossings that are closed at this time out of an abundance of caution until they get a better sense here as to what exactly happened with respect to the driver of this car who is believed to be deceased. so was this an accident? was it a medical episode? we've seen that in the past. was it somebody trying to flee local law enforcement? i think we would have heard than by now. but maybe they were involved in another crime and believed that they needed to flee something.

that's why they were traveling at a high rate of speed. or was this intentional to cause damage to this particular checkpoint, and then at that point we have to figure out well, what is the motive. were they going after cbp? were they going after the u.s. government? was there something that was tied to what's going on in the middle east between israel and hamas? of course we've been in a heightened terror environment for the past over month, month 1/2 at this point because of the statements from individuals overseas. it's just too soon to know. we just don't have any reporting from people that have been talking to folks involved in the investigation, from people that have been briefed what's going on to say with any sort of clarity exactly why this happened. but as you can see from all the videos we've shown you, from still images we've seen, from the accident scene, somebody was traveling in a very high rate of speed. it was obviously an enormous noise when this occurs, a huge fire. and the question now is why. >> frank figliuzzi, tom winters

lays out a series of questions, a series of possibilities. if you would for us, pull back the curtain on the work the fbi is doing right now to investigate. >> sure. i think it's a sign of the heightened threat environment we're in that you see this large-scale fbi response to this, and all the media coverage. and understandably so. so the question is, while they operate from the presumption that yes, this is terrorism because that's what the rules of the road say these days, then we start proving that it's not. or that it is. how do you do that? we've got evidence in front of us. we've got a vehicle to deal with. that vehicle, even though it's burned, has a vin number on it. and there may be recoverable identifications of the two deceased persons inside the car that will help quickly identify. same with the license plate. and all of the video coverage that is understandably around a border crossing, not to mention back on the american side where they may have stopped at a

convenience store, been captured on some kind of over camera coverage. all of that being done now. and as you identify who belongs to that vehicle, of course you're doing -- you're knocking on doors of family members, loved ones. you're asking for consent to search. you're talking about devices that might even have been recovered in the vehicle, and whether you can get social media posts that might indicate something about intention here. at the same time, all that can be done, and absolutely no evidence developed of kind of affiliation wh ideology that would leads to believe here is terrorism. this is work that's being done even as we speak. perhaps even search warrants being drawn up for residents and devices and communications carriers. >> peter strzok, the buffalo niagara international airport has closed to departing and arriving international flights. you have amtrak suspending service between new york and

canada. what does all of that suggest to you? >> i think it's very consistent with what both tom and frank indicated, that the authorities are treating this as potentially an act of terrorism. you have to assume the worst and work back from there. i think as fbi director wray indicated very recently, the terror threat level is at the highest it has been in many years. i think any time you see something like this around something of a symbolic nature of the thanksgiving holiday, the immediate response is going to be something -- one of caution. and to make sure that public safety is preserved, to make sure there is a heightened level of alert, and things being checked and done to maintain public safety. in this case, when you have the largest fbi, there is a buffalo field office at niagara falls, this is something that federal, state and local officials along with canadian counterparts train for and coordinate for on a routine basis. so i expect this is a response of being very cautious.

certainly we do not know what classified intelligence may be available to the u.s. intelligence community, to the fbi. but in this case, i think it is from everything we're seeing and certainly what tom is reporting, while there are no direct indications of terrorism, you see officials approaching this event, and all of the circumstances with a great deal of caution. >> you know, peter, it's tom winter. i am thinking i know a lot of your background and experience is in the counterintelligence field. but i know everybody on set and talking here today is familiar with over the course of the past several decades the attention that's been paid to the northern border with respect to terrorism. and we saw the millennium plot in 1999, 2000. we've seen other indications of that border being used as a possible entry point. and i'm speaking about the border at large, not this specific checkpoint, over the years. i'm wondering if that's a reason, and perhaps you can expand further a we can get

into it, a reason why officials are so concerned because the id o the northern border as a potential nexus to terrorism is certainly not a foreign one to law enforcement. >> well certainly that's a good point. i was stationed up in boston as my first office. i worked on the richard reed terrorism investigation. he was the shoe bomber who attempted to explode a device on an incoming international flight. we've seen millennium bombing in the state of washington out on the west coast a land entry or attempted entry by some terrorist elements. what a land entry gives you is one, a very broad space. it didn't just one airport or series of airports. you have any number of places where you can cross the border. and of course, your ability to carry much more equipment, whether that's an explosive device or other weapons. you can put a lot more into a car or a truck than you can into a suitcase, say, if you're going on to an aircraft. but again, this is something because unfortunately of the long experience of the united states with being alert and learning through some difficult

experiences the potential threat of border crossings that you have any number of people. certainly customs and border protection routinely exercises and trains and does on a day in and day out basis, has developed threat indicators that as people in vehicles are coming in, they are alert for potential indicators of suspicious activity and vehicles and so forth. so there are procedures in place. there are very close relationships i can tell you between the fbi, again, not just the new york state police and cbp and dhs personnel, but with their canadian counter parts. where it's the royal canadian mounted police, whether that is the canadian intelligence service, whether that is local other canadian law enforcement personnel. these are relationships that are well established. i am certain right now that there is a great deal of information that is flowing between the united states and canada, and then all across the united states government, whether that's the fbi, whether it's the u.s. intelligence community, collecting overseas. everybody is trying to figure

out. and as frank said, getting to the evidence on the ground to get positive identifications who these people are, what communications they might have used, what phone numbers, what emails, et cetera. all of that is being pursued right now. >> frank figliuzzi, you and i have sat here many times during incidents like this, and you always remind you, you begin with the premise that it could be terrorism, but also, you always keep in mind the possibility that it is not there. is the question of intentionality. there is the question of motive. as we watch this video over and over again of the car in this incident, just how useful is that to investigators? >> well, you know, the short -- as they say, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. so when you hear, and you hear a description of the video where the car is striking a median first, and then launching into the cbp station, you have to ask yourself whether if this were truly a deliberate act of

terror, whether that would have been the choice and most efficient route to hit that station. i would argue probably not. there are better ways to target a u.s. government facility than launching yourself off a median strip at 100 miles an hour. it's hard to even plan that, quite frankly. all of the security coverage, and they'll be pulling cameras from everywhere this car was on the american side, whether it stopped at a place or not, everybody is going to be asked if they had security camera coverage. all of that is indicative. even close-up shots which you would often see around a cbp station that might give us access into the car, that where you see that someone slumped over the wheel, maybe had a medical situation. family members will be asked medical history once they're identified, and they might say yeah, he is being treated, the driver is being treated for a heart condition. if that's true, maybe this person had a major heart event. so all of this will be put together. and all of the resources when

you're talking about a place, this location happens to have access to fbi resources, not only in fbi buffalo, as peter said, which is right there, but easily fbi albany and other stand-alone field office will be called in. and if more resources are needed, fbi, new york, the largest fbi field office in the country, right down there, and they're probably headed up there as we speak. >> frank, it's tom. i'm thinking back to something you and have i kind of casually referenced throughout the afternoon, but maybe we good k get into a little more detail here to explain to folks. when you look at the video of what happened here and you look at this car and you look at the aftermath of it, you have to think, how is it possible that there is any evidence here that could start to identify who may have been driving this car, whoa may have owned this car. but of course there is a number of new technologies, whether it's a license plate reader or old technologies. and i'm thinking of the 1993

world trade center bombing. this is chronicled in richard esposito's bomb squad book of how they were able to use a solvent to get off the residue from that explosion of the vin number on the truck that was used for the bomb and then be able to trace that back to who rented it. so what are some of the new technologies, and what are kind of some of the old school investigative techniques that they might use to determine who owned this vehicle and who may have been behind the wheel? >> yeah, i continue to be amazed at the technology that's used for example, with regard to recovery of devices. so if phones or laptops were in the car, you might think, well, that's a total loss. that seems like that's burnt to a crisp. but the forensics teams are really impressively adept these days at recovering data off of those. with regard to a vin number, i know we're all used to seeing,

well, my vin number is somewhere on the windshield of my car, down at the bottom. but vin numbers appear in multiple places on your vehicle and can be recovered through various kind of acid washing and recovery techniques after arson has occurred, for example, in a vehicle. and they'll look for the most clear place on the vehicle where that vin stamp exists, whether it's the door post or whether it's an engine block, or whether it's that bottom of the windshield. that's likely to happen. the other thing going on forensically will be the cell towers in the area. because who were they communicating with? once they identified a vice and a phone number, who was that number communicating with? were there other people, associates that could be part of something larger here? so that will go on as well. >> peter strzok, when you think about the fact that you have fbi

director wray saying we are at a heightened state of alert in this country, it is the day before thanksgiving. you are now talking about major border points that have been closed. you're talking about a major airport that is not sending or receiving international flights. you're talking about train service by amtrak being suspended from new york to canada. talk about what that means both for law enforcement and for americans who are a few hours out from a holiday and facing what is invariably a level of destruction. >> well, of course it's disruptive. this is one of the busiest travel days in the calendar year. so this is going to be something whether you are on the road, whether you're going to an airport, you're going to already face lines. and the prospect of this border cross willing be shut down and treated as a crime scene for presumably a long time, meaning hours, well into tomorrow, if not well beyond tomorrow. and the other disruptions will present real issues for travelers. but for law enforcement and for

americans in general, this is something that we absolutely have to take seriously. i completely agree with both tom and rank. this is something that on its face from what we know right now, i don't at all. i'm not convinced is anything rempted to terrorism. we have to treat it that way, though. at the same time, we don't need to be getting everybody spun up and jumping to conclusions that there is something to be terrified of and worried about. but when it comes to law enforcement, when it comes to the law enforcement response, they have to treat this responsibly and as it might be the worst case scenario and then dial back from that. because the worst thing would be not to take it as seriously as needed and to have something very, very bad happen in addition to this. so unfortunately, it is going to be a significant disruption for people in the northeast of the united states. but unfortunately, it's absolutely something we need to do to ensure the safety of the american people. i expect that we will this time tomorrow have a much, much better idea of exactly what happened, and hopefully

everybody can sit down to their thanksgiving holiday and enjoy their family and joy the event. >> one quick ad. i think it might be potentially important. the information we're getting on the buffalo airport is no departures and no arrivals is tied to international flights. and as we've seen in both of these two gentlemen no know, this is something we typically see to try to make sure nobody leaves the country. i think that's something important to keep in mind. it does not appear initially to be all flights in and out. >> peter strzok, tom figliuzzi. i've seen you working the phones this entire time. please come back to us with more information as you visit. thanks for joining us for this breaking news. when we come back, the other big breaking news today, news of a hostage deal. it is coming together. israel's prime minister calling it a hard decision, but an exchange for the release of 50 women and children will be a ceasefire starting tomorrow. and a live report is just ahead. and the 3-year-old girl, an american taken hostage in israel

is expected to be remember leased as part of the deal, just in time for her fourth birthday. we'll speak with someone who knows little abigail's family. and later in the program, what is being called the most damning day yet in the civil trial that threatens donald trump's business empire. a former high level trump org exec breaks down in tears on the stand. all this and more. don't go anywhere. go anywhere. get up to 50% off black friday deals at chewy. i'm still going to eat your socks. no, you're not. get black friday deals that deliver excitement at chewy. hey, grab more delectables. you know, that lickable cat treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry.

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on this thanksgiving eve, dozens of families whose loved ones were taking hostage in israel are facing a gut-wrenching night ahead as they're waiting to see if the

rallying cry to bring them home will finally be realized. the hostage deal, the final details of what are still being negotiated, the families could begin to get some answers starting tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. local time, 3:00 a.m. here in the east. that is when a ceasefire is expected to commence in the rs wave of hostages released. in total, 50 women and children, including babies, toddlers, and at least three americans will be freed over a four-day period in exchange for 150 palestinian prisoners. for the families, this is excruciating. as "the new york times" put it, this is a moment of, quote, both hope and agony, because it remains unclear which of the hostages will be released. given that the first wave of hostages bwon and children only also raises the possibility that families could be separated, leaving behind fathers who were taken captive with their children there is a lot of uncertainty right now, and some details of the deal are still being hammered out. a short time israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu shared some intriguing new details about the role of the

red cross. >> the current outline will not include the release of murders, and does include the agreement of representatives of the red cross for their visits to the hostages and bringing medicines to them. and i've heard that the red cross says that they haven't heard about it, but this is the explicit item in the deal. the rookies will be allowed to visit the hostages and give them any medicine that they need. and i do expect of the red cross to do their job. >> joining our conversation, david noriega in tel aviv. and with me at the table, former israeli ambassador to the u.s. michael oren, and former director of hostage recovery for the u.s. government, christopher o'leary. david, let's start with you. the latest reporting that israel and hamas, they are still hammering out the final details. help us understand the sticking points. >> yeah, alicia, there are a few

things that we don't exactly know yet. one of them, for example, is how exactly the aid that is going to enter gaza over the four-day ceasefire is going to be distributed. as you pointed out, even though we've been getting details throughout the course of the day, perhaps the most important detail, at least certainly for the families of the hostages is still unknown, which is the identity of those hostages that will be released. that means that this moment is truly excruciating for those families, right? even though this is really one might say the first moment of hope since the conflict started. it is also here in tel aviv tonight an extremely quiet, tense, and anxious night. alicia? >> david, walk us through how the release of hostages will work. 50 hostages over the course of four days. the first wave of women and children. they'll have been held hostage for 47 days. they may be injured. they will certainly be traumatized. what happens first? and how soon can the families be reunited? >> the expectation is that the hostages will be released in groups of at least 10 per day

until they reach that number of 50. the top priority according to the israeli government is the mental and physical health of the hostages. so there are six hospitals inside israel that are prepared to receive these hostages under varied parameters and circumstances. the israeli minister of welfare released a very, very detailed guide for the workers, including idf soldiers who will be handling this release. it includes things like giving children hostages the choice of whether or not they want to do things like take a shower. as far as the question of when they will be able to see family, that's expected to happen pretty much right away. the israeli government wants to make sure that these children in particular are greeted by familiar face, greeted by family. but they are placing pretty strict limits on how many people are there to greet each one of these hostages. they don't want them to get overwhelmed with people like extended families, strangers, certainly no media. and these details are coming out. but the idea is that they will take care of the mental and

physical health first, and they will reunite them with their families as soon as materially possible. alicia? >> chris you have seen this many, many times. we keep being warned this is extremely tenuous. tell us why. >> well, it's tenuous because you're dealing with a terrorist organization. they're not a legitimate partner in negotiation. they are doing this for effect. they're doing it for propaganda reasons. they're doing it to buy time. so although this is a great win for the victims that are being released and their families, it's only a small piece, and it's actually giving the tactical advantage back to hamas. they're living to fight another day, and they're protracting this conflict. and it's, you know, it's very calculated, very manipulative. i think we will see episodic releases of additional hostages as time goes on, but it's almost an ominous sign for the idf soldiers that were being held. if it was this difficult to get an immigrant on women and children, how difficult is it going to be to eventually get the release of idf soldiers.

so i think brings you back the point where you can't just rely on negotiations. you have to continue your counterterrorism operations. you to squeeze hamas. you have to gather intelligence and develop parallel lines of effort that if negotiations break down, you're not throwing your hands up frustrated, that you have something to pivot to, which is israel has got some of the finest counterterrorism and hostage rescue forces in the world. they will continue to try to work this problem and find solutions. >> ambassador? >> he is absolutely right. chris is absolutely right. keep in mind the one thing that hamas needs more than anything else is a ceasefire. ceasefire means hamas gets away with mass murder. we have 250,000 people homeless tonight. they can't go back if hamas is able to reorganize, rearm and launch another attack? because that's exactly what their leaders say. we're going to do this a second time, third time, fourth time you. wouldn't go back to that border town with your kids either. the ceasefire is the key here.

hamas is going to play for that ceasefire. so they get a five-day ceasefire, and that's going create tremendous pressure on the government of israel, because there will be governments in the world and people here in the united states as well, well, you agreed to five days, why not ten days? and maybe if you get another three or four hostages for the next five days, you can keep going. at the end of the day, though, i'm sure chris will agree with me, hamas won't release all the hostages, because once it does, israel can then flood those tunnels. they can set those tunnels on fire. and that's the end of hamas. hamas is always going to hold on to a certain number of hostages. there is no deal out there where they release all the hostages unless -- some of russ old enough to remember 1982 when the plo left beirut. and they were evacuated. israel laid siege to beirut. i can conceive of a situation where hamas is surrounded and they get out of gaza free card. okay. we're going give you back all of the hostages and you put us on a

boat and send us somewhere. i think israel would go for that deal, but it's a long shot. >> i know you have spoken with some of the families, and they've expressed some reservations. what more with you tell us? >> yeah, i should be careful with this a little bit, alicia, because a lot of the families are willing to talk about some of these things much more freely off camera than they're willing to talk on camera. none of them want to appear critical of this deal because everyone wants as many hostages to be released as possible, particularly women and children. however, some people will be left behind. and while prime minister netanyahu is facing pressure from his right, for example with regards to releasing any palestinian prisoners, he is also facing pressure from some of the families we should have agreed for an everyone for everyone deal, where all of the hostages are in released in exchange for all palestinian prisoners in israeli custody. the fear among some of the family members is once the women and children are released, that will deflate some of the urgency in releasing the remaining hostages such as adult males and people who are seen as less vulnerable.

they're afraid essentially that they're going to be left behind and forgotten. and that fear is very real and it's very intense. it's one of the things making the atmosphere here in israel tonight both hopeful for some people, but also extremely anxious for many others. alicia? >> ambassador, i want to talk about one of the potential hostages, a 3-year-old named abigail. i want you to take a listen to some her aunt told mkz. here it is. >> i think about her brother and sister who both watched their parents be murdered on october 7th. and abigail coming home, for the grandparents, for family, for all of us is that one hope to have her back, embrace her. her birthday is on friday. she is turning 4. and to like just imagine that she comes home and is with her family is our light right now, in such a very dark and

terribly, terribly horrific period. >> ambassador, it is my understanding that you know abigail's family. >> i know liz naftali very well for many, many years. her daughter worked for me at my embassy. and what can i say? it's not heartbreaking. it's soul-crushing, the whole thing. have i grandchildren that age. and i can't imagine being in that situation. the whole thing is intensely personal. we can talk in abstract about ceasefires and also sorts of strategic ramification, because there are strategic ramifications. at the end of the day, it's about people, and it's about people we know. there is not a single israeli who doesn't know somebody, at least one who has either been taken hostage,that was killed on october 7th, that have children in gaza tonight, some not coming home. you have a ceasefire, hamas is going to use it to reorganize and rearm, it's going to kill soldiers. so you have a soldier's life

versus a hostage life. i look back in history, i can't find another government in history that had to make decisions like this. it is absolutely excruciating. >> i think about that video and the fact that they're now all wearing the numbers of the hostages that they're associated with. i want to read you something from "the washington post," reporting this hostage deal is not just a victory forparty s that negotiated it, but the families of the hostages. that their grassroots pressure campaign paid off. how important is the effort, is th work of these families to make sure that this did not slip from the headlines, that this remained a priority of multiple global governments? >> it's incredibly powerful. i will say the u.s. government learned and pivoted after our failures supporting families and recovering the hostages during the isis hostage crisis. so the james foley, katelyn mueller and the other victims. the u.s. government reorganized, and now we have a whole government approach, and the families have a very powerful

voice. that continued from the obama administration through president trump's administration, and the current administration really supports it the highest level. that's why you see john finer and jake sullivan out front, and clint mckirk on all of this. and my good friend and colleague roger karstens, is plugged into all of this. he is a special presidential envoy for hostage affairs. you are getting support to the families that we've never seen. but i will go back to that's not really new, and it's not new for israel either. there were few countries in the world that value and protect their citizens as much as united states and israel. and we will defend them, but we will also expend every resource for as listening as it takes to recover them. so although this is an unprecedented, complex hostage crisis, i promise you that, you know, the united states will continue to partner with israel to bring all the americans home and will partner with israel as long as it takes to resolve this

hostage crisis. >> chris, i want you to pick up on something that david was reporting on, which was the state of these hostages and the amount of intelligence and information gathering that is both fair in the early days and even possible. >> so in the very early days, all the videos released on social media and hamas deliberately released for propaganda, all of the information that was in those videos was gleaned, i could find the hostage taker, tracking where the hostages were initially being taken. so there was a ton of publicly available information and commercially available information. that's before shin bet and mossad and israeli military intelligence start layering on effects. but as these hostages get released, even though many of them are children, after they are medically screened and psychologically screened and supported, they will be interviewed by intelligence professionals with counselors there, victim service

specialists, and we will pull information out. some of that will corroborate known information, but some of it might be new and give us new leads to array intelligence resources to try to find the other hostages. >> does it complicate questions that some of them will have loved ones that remain hostages? >> no. they are professionals. we have psychologists, we have victim specialists, we have counselors who are trained to do exactly. this. >> david noriega for us in tel aviv. michael oren, christopher o'leary. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, the $250 million fraud trial threatening president trump's business. a witness for the defense, choking back tears on the stand. what he may have inadvertently revealed about trump's legal woes. that update is up next.

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trial. mcconney was handed people's exhibit, a draft of trump's net worth statement for 2014. he was asked to look at aote scribbled in thin blue ink on the first page, "djt to get final review" which he said he had written. it was alleged net worth statement. the draft continued $3.5 billion in exaggerations. mcconney also broke down in tears on the witness stand saying that the mounting legal investigations led him to retire from the job after 35 years. joining our conversation, "new york times" investigative reporter susanne craig is back and with me at the table. lisa rubin and "new york times" editorial board member mara gay. susan, how did geoffrey mcconney's testimony read to you? >> it wasn't great in a lot of not great days for donald trump and the organization. there is a document that is out there, as you mentioned, the 2014 statements of financial

condition. and right on the top of it, it says "djt to get final review." it really does tie trump to the document. we don't know if he got final review. but it shows there was some sort of acknowledgment in the organization that donald trump would sign off on these documents. and, you know, donald trump has really tried to distance himself from this. he has said that he has an army of accountants and lawyers who look at these things. and i always think it's interesting. with the trump organization, you hear on the one hand they're a mom and pop organization, very tightly run from the top down to the point where donald trump, up until the time he went to the white house was signing every check that went out the door. but then you have when it suits them, they're a large organization, and they really don't get into the minutia of things like statements of financial conditions and audits. they rely on others. and this, the testimony from i think geoff mcconney yesterday

really did tie the president, the former president in some way to the financial statements, and that is siificant. >> i want to ask you about that, according to business insider, the spreadsheets are, had testified under dect examination that he would review each year's draft statement with allen weisselberg who would give the approved draft to the outside accounting mazars usa. i believe there was a step in between that involved donald trump prior to 2017, he said to mcconney, who appeared uncomfortable on the stand as he said indeed trump did the ultimate signing off. mcconney's many hand-written notes indicate it was trump and his top executives who made the last edits and then signed off on these net worth statements. as such, the notes do serious damage to the primary trump defense, blame mazars, blame the accounts. is it a direct link? >> i think it is a direct link. you don't need this testimony to get the direct link because donald trump himself gave it to

us on november 6. he was on the sand with andrew rhamer who did the examination yesterday. he said if it correct you had reviewed the statements of financial condition in each of the years from 2011 to 2017 before it became final? and donald trump's answer, reading from the transcript is yeah, i would look at them. so you had it from the horse's mouth. you didn't need geoff mcconney and his handwriting, and the attorney general confronting him with things that put sort of a wrench in the narrative about blame it on mazars. donald trump is willing to admit it himself when he took the stand. >> and yet we talk about trump's legal team and the choices they make. it is noteworthy that they chose. this was their witness. >> right. >> this was their witness who then -- perhaps they did not need it, but added more data points to suggest that donald trump indeed knew what he was doing. >> one of the other interesting things about the trump organization, and this was flew the white house as well we know that donald trump chose people around him who were sometimes

competent, but always loyal. and what we're seeing here is that even with a bevy of lawyers whose sole purpose was to protect donald trump, whether or not something illegal was going on, there were mistakes made. and in a way, the more cooks you have in a shop, the more complicated that becomes. so the very people who he hired thinking they're going to protect me, they're going to prevent me from putting my own name at risk actually now may have kind of sealed his fate. so i do think it makes a difference, at least to the public to see, you know, donald trump to get final approval on this. i mean, it's true. we've heard it out of his mouth. we've seen it. there is a trail there. but there is something that feels different about putting it in writing. because donald trump is known for never putting anything in writing. and here it is plain as day at the top of the document. >> sometimes competent, always loyal definitely belongs on a

mug or own a t-shirt. susan, i want to read this to you too from business insider, quote. in one key cautionary quote from the 2015 draft, mcconney made a notation in ink that this computation also includes forecasted deals that have no signed yet. in the note mcconney asked trump whether he wanted to exclude some $151 million in as yet fictional assets from the net worth statement. the final version ofhat year's net worth statement shows mcconney's suggestion was ignored, possibly by trump himself. the ag alleges that trump routinely padded out his net worth statements with the same sorts of nonexistent assets. does it speak to the question of donald trump's intent? >> i think it does. you know, you saw mcconney when he was -- when he testified and was examined by the attorney general. he said some of it was mistakes and some of it was oversight. but there were things that were intentional. and i think it does go to intent and what they were doing. these numbers that we hear so much about, whether it's the man

triplex that donald trump lived in. in trump tower, was it 10,000 square feet or 30,000 square feet, or is the asset worth $30 million or $300 million. you sort of sometimes think they pick these numbers out of thin air. but they did try and back them up with things. and this is why, you know, what they were doing behind the scenes and what they were excluding and the inputs that were going in go to their intent. and a lot of the trial is focused on those inputs and whether or not they were valid or not. >> i want to read you this from the messenger. in emotional testimony mcconney rattled off his many legal woes and may have disclosed a new one. he said he received a subpoena from the southern district of new york sdny some two hours before he was supposed to testify. mcconney has been called to testify twice in the civil fraud case and once in the criminal case, and it is unclear before which stint on the witness stand he claims to have received a

subpoena. the spokesperson for sdny said he could not confirm or comment on a subpoena. what does it mean? >> well, first of all, let's go back to what geoff mcconney was saying when he disclosed that. he was saying he retired because he just wanted to relax and stop participating in these investigations. but the very fact that he was served with that subpoena as well as his testimony yesterday demonstrates that geoff mcconney can't escape these investigations whether or not he is a current or former employee of the trump enterprise. so what stock do i put in that? i don't know what the southern district is investigating, but i can tell you that there is ample room to investigate anything and everything having to do with this organization and its tax and financial improprieties. geoff mcconney famously testified at last year's tax fraud trial where the trump organization and allen weisselberg were convicted. he testified he himself assisted allen weisselberg in that other tax fraud scheme. why? because he was afraid he was going to lose his job.

so geoff mcconney can get upset and emotional. he might be regretful, but that doesn't mean he country complicit. >> the business brand, i think it's questionable which one has surpassed the other. it would seem, though, that the damage done here, the damage revealed about how this organization was actually running should tarnish the overall concept that this was some financial genius? >> it should. of course, that's not what's happening. i think that part of this is i don't want to call it genius, but i think the magic, the dark magic really of donald trump, which is his ability to connect with this deep base that he has that may be small, but it runs deep, to say i'm just like you. you're just like me. and so you don't want to give the government money. everybody cheats on their taxes. everybody commits this kind of fraud. and you would do it too if you could. don't you want to be like me?

and i think because of that, and because of the tribalism of donald trump's base, it really doesn't hurt him. i do think that there are independents who are turned off by this, that there are moderate republicans who are turned off by this in swing states. one of the other striking things to me as a new yorker, a life-long new yorker growing up with donald trump as kind of a figure, a tabloid figure and then of course kind of a reality tv figure and then more an authoritarian vision, much of this fraud has gone on foreso many decades, and yet it was allowed to go until he became the president. in a way you can understand. but in another way you say, well, where is the accountability? i think that donald trump has actually benefitted from that. he is saying to americans in his base, you know what? everybody is a crook anyway. let me get away with it.

i think that that shouldn't resonate with people, but it does. it's a little bit demoralizing that there are people out there who say, what's the big deal. >> it goes back to the way in which he debased and devalued institutions of the country. sue, the last word. you get a brief respite from covering this over thanksgiving. what are you looking for next week? >> i think you will have -- there's going to be executives coming in, current executives from the trump organization, including one who has already testified once when he was examined by the attorney general. at that point, he said he was in meetings with weisselberg where he indicated donald trump did want the valuations to go up. that's going to be interesting to see how that cross examination goes. then you are going to be seeing several executives from deutsche bank come in. deutsche bank was donald trump's

lender for a number of years on a number of the projects that are under the microscope right now, including the old post office hotel in washington, which the trumps used to own, and doral, a golf course just outside of miami. it will be interesting to see what they have to say about whether they relied on it and what their interactions were with the trump organization. >> something tells me you and i will see a lot of each other next week. thank you. enjoy your holiday. lisa, same to you. mara is sticking around. we are waiting for a briefing on the deadly explosion at the border. we will bring that to you. don't go anywhere.

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hostage by hamas.rranged before hostage deal was announced. he told the crowd, let us go ahead with peace, pray for peace, pray a lot for peace. when we come back, the latest on what we know about the deadly car explosion in niagara falls. kathy hochul expected to brief on it any moment. "deadline white house" continues after this quick break. after this quick break

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hi, it's 5:00 in new york.

we are tracking developments from the u.s./canada border where a vehicle exploded after hitting a structure at a high speed at the checkpoint. a customs and border protection officer suffered minor injuries. an explosive was not found in the car. they are investigating if the crash was intentional. the latest reporting from our colleagues, tom winter and jonathan dientz, is that according to sources familiar with the matter, they are looking into the driver was in the vicinity of a casino shortly before the car crash. they continue to investigate the scene and the previous routes the white sedan took prior to the crash. we are awaiting a news conference with governor hochul any minute. let's bring in tom winter. what more do you know since we last spoke? >> since we last spoke last hour, we have developed some more reporting and information

based on where the investigation is. there's a nearby casino that caught the attention. they are trying to determine right now -- i'm using the reporting myself and my colleague and four senior law enforcement officials have been briefed on is whether that individual was coming from that particular casino. they have tried to determine the routes that this individual took, driving what they describe as a white sedan. you are looking at the video as it goes airborne, driving at a high rate of speed to be able to achieve that. ends up here tied to the rainbow bridge, the border checkpoint. crashes into the barrier and structure there and leads to this tremendous fire. as you can imagine, a vehicle going so fast, to have hit a median and get into this area, it would have sounded like an explosion to the people that were there. then you see the fire and the smoke. i think it's important to note, based on our reporting, so far

officials have found no evidence there was an explosive, no evidence that there were any bombs or any sort of secondary devices. did somebody have a bomb in the car but there were devices found? we are found the scene has been checked and cleared. there's no other potential concerns from an explosive standpoint. the question remains, as you and i were just talking about less than an hour ago, why did this happen? was this an accident? was this intentional? if it was intentional, what was the motive? of course, because of the environment that we are in and what we have been talking about for the past several weeks, is there a terrorism component? i think right now, it is safe to say the investigation is not pointing imminently to anything involving terrorism. i have been there this studio and on this very show where initially we haven't seen things and then investigation changes. investigators follow evidence, they follow leads, and we follow the information that we are getting from folks there briefed or directly involved in these

investigations and bring it to you in a responsible way to try not to get ahead of what information we are hearing. all indications at this point, they haven't found any evidence this is terrorism. but this investigation is far from over. that, of course, could very much change. that's what we are focusing on. >> questions of intentionality, questions of motive, questions of who these two individuals were. as you and i sit here, we are waiting to hear from kathy hochul. what do you expect to hear from her? there's always in these moments a push and pull between a desire for information and transparency, and the responsibility on the part of someone like the governor to not in any way impact the investigation. >> yeah. there's a real push and pull when it comes to politicians looking to reassure and speak to their communities and show their authority and law enforcement which has concerns beyond what information they have developed and double-checking evidence and information, but also the legal process if there was anybody to

be charged in this particular incident. the things they need to think about from a legal perspective to make sure they don't damage a prosecution. those things generally speaking, perhaps not specific to this incident, are always at play. what i expect the governor to talk about -- i was frankly not supposed to be in the building at this time. i was supposed to be at the macy's day parade where they are blowing up balloons for the parade. they were going to have a 5:00 nypd briefing. we were expecting to hear no credible threats to new york city. we are aware of the propaganda out there tied to israel and hamas. we want folks to remain vigilant. here is the security plan. now the backdrop i predict with almost certainty that the governor will talk about is she will be maybe get into a little bit more about the investigation. but reinforce to folks, look, we are aware of the world that we are living in right now. we don't have anything to say or any sort of investigation that

points us to any sort of imminent attack. i always caveat that and say the new mode of terrorism is not some al qaeda 9/11-style plot but somebody that hears something or sees something online and then is compelled to act. those are the types of terrorism cases that we have spoken about so much in the last ten years. >> that heightened state explains some of the moves that we are seeing. amtrak service suspended from new york to canada. the fact you have an airport that is not receiving or sending out international flights. it shows they are approaching this with a certain level of seriousness and severity. >> i think until you know for sure, you don't want to be in a position where you could have taken security steps, could you -- you could have taken steps to capture individuals. you want to take precautions. a great example, i was in boston following the boston marathon bombing. there were different points in the course of that sthat, once were on the hunt, they had

individuals that were headed to an airport. they had all sorts of wires and stuff in their car. they pulled them over. there was an idea of do we have a cell? we need to make sure logan is closed. it turns out they were people that worked as electricians and repairmen. they had nothing to do with anything. that's the type of environment that you are in. you don't know what you are dealing with. until you know where an investigation is going for certain, you want to make sure you take all the proper steps. of course, as you well know, and as everybody knows, it's a huge travel day. a lot of people are going to be in these facilities. make sure there's nothing that's going to happen. >> the timing extremely relevant. there's a large amount of information gathering happening at this moment by multiple law enforcement agencies. there is the sharing of information, which seems particularly relevant given you are talking about the u.s./canada border. can you give us a sense of what the information sharing looks like on an investigation like this in. >> sure. it's a very good relationship between the royal canadian

mount ed police and u.s. authorities. the relationship between canadian officials and the new york state police, new york state fusion center, the nypd, which maintains a presence is part of the foreign liaison program where they have detectives and trained officers in various cities across the globe, and some of the cities are in canada. they are in a position to talk directly to their counterparts. this isn't somebody sends an email and they hope it gets to somebody. this is people who developed personal relationships. if this turns out to be terrorism, not the first time that the northern border, specifically washington state, but other areas have been of concern to u.s. law enforcement. they know what they are dealing with when it comes to this threat. >> tom winter, you are not going anywhere. i want to bring in david noriega from the middle east. david, what can you tell us? >> reporter: this just came in

in the last few minutes. it's from the director of the israeli national security council. it's a statement very brief that says that the release of israeli hostages from gaza will not take place before friday. that's a significant change. the initial expectation was the release would begin tomorrow. we have no information about what's causing the delay. there are numerous factors that could be causing the delay on either side. logistical questions around hamas' ability to consolidate the hostages and transfer or questions around the fact that israeli citizens can appeal the release of palestinian prisoners from israel prisons. we don't know what's causing the delay. this shows you that this negotiation is basically a high wire act that could change or collapse at any moment. as of now, the contours of the agreement remain in place as far as we know. it's just the timing that has changed. >> that time line as it changes, i'm reminded of all of the families you have spoken with in the course of your reporting who

have reminded themselves of just how tenuous this agreement was. >> reporter: yeah, very much so. every family i speak -- i haven't spoken to a single family that has expressed relief or joy. the closest thing they express is hope. that's very a fearful and anxio hope. everybody understands that this all could change at any moment. >> no hostage release before friday. david, stay with me. i want to pivot back to tom winter and talk about this moment that we find ourselves in in terms of national security. a heightened sense of alert. the way in which the day before thanksgiving, at the u.s./canada border, it would ordinarily be a news making event, as ordinarily something law enforcement would take seriously, there's increased gravity in this moment. >> yeah. hamas' attack on israel had never happened, this would have

caught our attention and would have been something we would have been focusing a lot of time on today, no doubt, to your point. but i think given what the fbi director said earlier this week, given the steps the nypd has taken putting office -- here is the governor of new york. >> i just returned from the scene of a horrific accident that led to a high level anxiety all the way from western new york to albany to washington. before i describe the details, i want to be very, very clear to americans and new yorkers. at this time, there is no indication of a terrorist attack. let me repeat that. at this time, there is no indication of a terrorist a-involved attack here at the rain breaux bridge in western new york. at 11:27 this morning, a car going at a very high rate of speed crashed into a median at

niagara state just minutes from here. niagara falls, near one of the border crossings into canada, the rainbow bridge. there are four border crossings in western new york. this is one of the busiest crossings. not just in western new york but along the entire u.s./canadian border. it happens on the busiest travel day of the year. naturally, at a time of heightened alert, everyone sprang into action. it crashed into a customs and border patrol booth and the car and the booth immediately exploded, burst into flames. i saw the video of an airborne vehicle that was absolutely surreal. you actually had to look at it and say, was this generated by ai? it was so surreal to see how high in the air this vehicle went and then the crash and the

explosion and the fire. that video they released very shortly. as i said, we are not aware of any threats to this area. but i state the caveat that the investigation is ongoing. if you can imagine, this vehicle basically incinerated. nothing is left but the engine. pieces are scattered over 13, 14 booths. it's a large scene. it's going to take a lot of time for our federal law enforcement partners who are with me here today and i will identify to be able to piece together the real story, to identify the make of the car. obviously, there is not a license plate. i have been briefed by law enforcement for the last hour. new york state police, colonel

allen, other law enforcement officials. i've been joined by andy balker, who is the special agent in charge of the customs and border patrol. i was briefed by the sac from the fbi. was on the phone with secretary of homeland security mayorkas. the white house reached out. my staff has been in communication with all of them. i spoke with senator schumer, local law enforcement as well as local officials. the world is watching to find out what happened. when there's such high anxiety, stress levels with already high, and we have been on heightened alert since october 7. it's so important for me to stand here and tell the world based on what we know at this moment, and anything can change, there is no sign of terrorist activity with respect to this crash. we have identified that this is

a local individual, a western new yorker. two individuals died in the vehicle. the border patrol individual in the booth was injured. the booth literally protected that individual. they went to the hospital in minor injuries and have been released. there is also again the busiest travel day of the year. there's a major disruption in our cross-border travel. right now, the rainbow bridge will remain closed while they continue the investigation. this is a large widely scattered scene. we are trying to identify all the elements to make sure there is no unforeseen situations that we need to address before we can open again to the public. we will make sure the public is safe before they go back on the rainbow bridge. make sure the structural integrity of the booths, very important. state dot will be involved in that as well.

other bridges are open now. there's been a lot of people trying to get across. i appreciate that the peace bridge is reopened half an hour ago. for those traveling by train, unfortunately, amtrak suspended its cross-border service between new york state and canada. the buffalo airport, despite early reports, the buffalo airport was never closed and everything is normal. domestic flights are active. there's been no cessation in service there. i want to extend my gratitude to all of our partners, customs and border patrol, homeland security, fbi, our state police, local sheriffs from niagara county, erie county, stepped up to identify what transpired here beginning at 11:27 a.m. this morning. they took time from their family. they showed us and reminded us

that there are people who put on a uniform every single day, put themselves in harm's way. people on the bridge, in the aftermath of what happened, unknown, the source, the cause of this explosion, were out there doing their jobs. i want to pause to give them just the gratitude of 20 million new yorkers who sleep better because of their willingness to do this. they run toward danger. they should be with their families today. they will not be. this investigation will go on for days. i will not have any further answers at this time as to the individuals involved, the deceased, any motivation. there's a lot of unanswered questions. at this time, we need to dial down the temperature right now. that's what i plan to do as governor. let everybody know, all is well. we are investigating. more information could arise. based on the preliminary investigation, no sign of terrorist involvement in the horrific explosion that occurred

in western new york. any questions? >> you can explain what you are basing that determination that there was no terrorist activity? >> that's based on my briefings with experienced law enforcement, the fbi, homeland security and the customs and border protection. they are -- they brought experts. they are still analyzing this. but there's been no indication based on the online threats, anyone taking credit for anything, all of the usual areas you look to identify whether there's a group involved. at this time -- you will hear me say at this time a dozen times, because it's still unfolding. i didn't want to leave the public with a lot more anxiety than they need to have at this time. >> i want to be perfectly clear. there's no evidence to show at this time that this was a terrorist activity? >> there is no evidence at this time that there was a terrorist activity. that's what i want to make clear to the public.

calm everybody down. it's important. based on what's happening in other parts of the world, everybody is on edge. this is an international border. we have felt a vulnerability this. it has not been determined to be an accident. you don't know whether the driver was intentional in how they drove. we do not know that. all i know is there was a horrific -- i won't call it an accident. a horrific accident, a crash, an explosion, loss of life. at this time, no known terrorist correction. >> we saw agents -- >> that's new york governor kathy hochul in niagara falls. we have been watching what she described as a horrific incident saying there's no indication of a terrorist attack. how did they get here? >> it's police work. according to the reporting from myself and colleague jonathan dientz, was that officials went back and looked at the video that nbc news showed several

hours ago which showed this car in the air, hitting a median. there were witness interviews. viewers have been hearing those throughout the afternoon that said it was on the u.s. side. we don't have anybody coming in from canada. we have this incident being on the u.s. side. they developed information. we are trying to nail down a couple details. i'm not going to go into it. they were able to trace this vehicle back to a local casino. there's a casino six minutes from here. they were able to find this individual and determine that they had been there. perhaps it was something in the course of their time there -- i don't want to get too far into this. i want to get this more nailed down. it may have driven somebody to drive erratically after this or to be upset in some sort of nature. no indication that that drove them to do anything intentionally. it sounds like according to the governor, this was an incident and not something that was

intentional whatsoever. we heard witnesses say that this individual had tried to move around another car and may have lost control and hit a median. i think the witness statements are being looked at carefully right now in the course of the investigation. all of this may have been just a tragedy for the people that were in the car, certainly for the passenger of the car in that this may have no nexus to terrorism at all. i said the investigation was headed towards not terrorism and that they had not developed any evidence yet. now the governor has very clearly stated that. i think it's indicative of the questions you were asking. why did they we get here? why were we paying so close attention to it? if october 7th and hamas' attack had never happened, we would have paid attention to it because the concern for security at either border, but the northern border -- there's unique factors into that. when they expand this show to 9:00, we can get into that.

but there are things that catch our attention. everybody was focused on it. given the rhetoric that is out there in the world, given the terrorist propaganda calls for attacks that have been heeded over the last ten years, that's what got everybody's attention. it's understandable. it's the busiest travel day of the year. had you significant closings along the border in the region. police work, if you follow -- a good friend of mine who i have gotten to know over the years in law enforcement now retired says, if you solve the crime, you figure out who did it, you figure out why they did it. i think today they went about seeking to solve the crime, seeking to find this individual and then they were able to get to a point where they could conclude, there's nothing here at this point that indicates terrorism, with the asterisk -- searches are being done. they will go through this person's presence on the cloud. we have a presence on the cloud now if you use a phone. will they find something that indicates otherwise?

i think they feel confident about where they are at. >> tom winter, you are supposed to be at the macy's day parade prep. i'm glad you are here with me. when we return, the other breaking news. we have learned that no hostages will be release as part of the deal israel reached with hamas before friday. what's behind that delay after a quick break. i have moderate e crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

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50 hostages will be released. including three americans. israel agreed to release 150 palestinians in their custody, individuals who have been arrested for politically motivated and terror-related crimes. it's a time of mixed emotions as the families of the hostages still do not know whether their loved ones will be among those released in this group. they remain hopeful. >> are you able to in your heart allow yourself to hope at this stage? >> of course. of course. that's all i got. hope. >> have you allowed yourself to think about what you might say to her the first time you see her? >> i don't think i will speak. i will just hold her and hug her. >> israel has said once the four-day period is over, it will continue the pause in fighting as long as more hostages are returned home. joining us now, former deputy national security advisor to president obama, ben rhodes,

rick stengel and with me at the table, david rode, who in 2008 was kidnapped by the taliban in afghanistan and held for seven months in various locations in the region. ben, we are reminded over and over again that these deals are extremely tenuous. what do you make of no hostages being released before friday? that shift in time line. >> i don't think that should be much of a surprise. to your point, this is a very complicated, multi-dimensional deal. you had the united states working through qatar, which has a hamas political office, which has to be in contact with hamas officials on the ground in gaza. at the same time, the u.s. is talking to israel. this diplomacy where everybody is removed from where the hostages are, just getting that agreement took time.

then i do think, gaza has been a really intense war zone for a period of weeks now. i think it stands to reason it might take time to identify and locate those hostages. for hamas to do so in a way that they may not want to be detected in doing so. this is a lot of moving parts and it's complicated. the good news is nobody is walking back the core commitment of the agreement, which is that some 50 hostages should be released in exchange for this pause in fighting which could facilitate humanitarian aid, releases of palestinians as well. very importantly, that comment in reporting out of the israeli side that if the pause continues -- if there continues to be hostage releases, there could be continued pause. that indicates that there's an openness to diplomacy resolving more of the issues. look, we won't know until we know that those hostages are safe and returned. it's going to be a very anxiety-ridden couple of days

until we see release. >> i will cling to the good news and hope you offer us. i will return to you on the question of what a delay could mean for palestinians in gaza. you have been through this. you know what this looks like. i have to imagine when you hear that mother say i'm clinging to hope, hope is all i have, you know what it is like on both sides of this. you have made the argument to me, it's harder for the families. >> it's harder for the family. the hostages might not know this is happening. captors lie to you throughout the captivity to keep you docile. it will be another month or two and then it drags on and on. for families on the edge of their seats, they have this feeling if they say the right thing in a tv interview or get to the prime minister, they can save their loved ones. it's a difficult time for them. i agree with ben. this is a minor delay. i think the deal seems to be going forward. there's a chance that there are 150 palestinians that are going to be released from israeli

custody as part of this. they might want to vet those 150 more closely. hopefully, this goes forward. again, it's a wait for families, but they could be close to seeing loved ones. it's not all hostages. that's what's extraordinary. we are talking about 230 hostages, roughly, in total. at most, we will get a small number. >> given we know this is women and children, there are families who know their loved ones are not among those returning. there are families where there are women and children returning but there are husbands and partners that are being held. >> yes. there's a sense that hamas sees men in particular, since everyone serves in the military in israel, as combatants, even if they are not in the military. this is a good first step. it's good as ben said that maybe there could be more releases if the cease-fire holds. it's a very difficult situation. it's unclear if hamas has control of all of the hostages. they said they don't.

that could be an issue in the future. right now, small release after small release would help. humanitarian aid is going in. the palestinian death toll according to hamas is now 14,000. 5,000 of them are children. this pause is good for all sides. >> i want to talk a little bit more about that. before i do, i want to ask you, rick, if you could pull back the curtain for us, give us a sense -- ben described high dip. give us a glimpse inside the biden administration, inside the white house tonight as they learn of this news, the possibility the time line has shifted, the conversations that are happening inside the administration. >> it's complicated. it's three dimensional chess. as has been reported already,

these conversations began even before israel launched its ground invasion. israel reached out to the u.s. the u.s. reached out to israel. third parties like qatar has been mentioned, the egyptians. another fellow we worked with extensively who has been at the center is brett mcgurk, the white house coordinator for the middle east. these conversations are going on 100 times a day. part of the problem is -- one reason for the pause is, it's not like you can just go knock on the door of the hamas office in gaza and say, can you just give me a list of the hostages? they don't necessarily know where everybody is. they are being bombed day at night. there's been reports that islamic jihad, for example, has some hostages, that maybe war warlords or criminals have hostages. even the people you are negotiating with on the ground are not necessarily able to give

you the kind the information you need to make a deal, which is more the reason that the deal is a qualified success so far. it's a great first step as david said. >> extremely tenuous. ben, i think we all understand what this means for the families of the hostages who are watching this unfold. talk to us about palestinians in gaza who are in desperate need of that aid, that could be headed their way, who are in need of the minor reprieve from the fighting. what will this deal mean for them? >> i think that what hopefully it means is you had this trickle of aid trucks across the border with egypt. 20 trucks here, 20 trucks there. a fraction of what is needed in gaza. even less than what was getting in on a regular basis before the conflict began. you are talking about a situation where there's been near total absence of food and fuel and water getting in to

people. most of whom are displaced. i think what this pause will do is facilitate hopefully a substantial amount of humanitarian assistance getting in. people able to get clean water again. people being able to be fed again. maybe severely injured people being taken out of gaza to be cared for in hospitals in egypt. i think it's going to raise hopes. part of what's going to be complicated is resuming the degree of hostilities that we saw before this pause. if israel does choose to do that. that's going to be something that i think invites obviously a lot of opposition not just in gaza but i think around the world. there's a lot of complexity with stopping and starting a military operation like this. we should be mindful that there are some 15,000 people dead, but there are a lot of people who are wounded and a lot of desperate people that don't know where their next meal or glass of water was coming from. that will be the focus of the international aid community in this window of the cease-fire.

>> prior to this news that there's going to be a shift in the time line, we were focused on this question of when hostages are released, if hostages are released, the condition they return in, psychologically, physically, and also the role they then play in information and intelligence gathering. >> they will be so happy to be released. a question i got was, was it really jarring and difficult? it's amazing. there are hostages who have died in some of the bombardments. we don't know how they have been treated. videos have come out of one man being dragged to the hospital. generally, captors do try to keep their captives healthy. they are lying to them. they are promising they will be okay. the women said they were taken to these facilities underground where there was clothes and all these other things, food and everything else that they would

need. i don't know. i don't know how they were treated. if 50 of them can come home, it's a miracle and a wonderful thing. they will recover. they will overcome this. you are very determined as a former hostage to move on with your life. you don't want to let the kidnappers win. >> we continue to follow this story. thank you all so much for joining us this hour. when we return, the highest court in the key battleground state of colorado says it will take up the case to remove the twice impeached disgraced expresident from the ballot based on the 14th amendment. a lower court judge ruled he engaged in an insurrection but allowed his name on the ballot. the latest on that after a short break. e ballot the latest on that after a short break. ? to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (vo) black friday starts now. turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium and ipad and apple watch se - all on us. only on verizon.

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the legal battle over whether donald trump can remain on the colorado ballot continues. they agreed to take up the appeal. this comes after a state judge ruled that while trump did engage in insurrection, the disqualification clause does not apply. the plaintiffs filed a blistering appeal to the colorado supreme court onony writing in part, quote, as for common sense, there would be no reason to allow presidents who lead an insurrection to serve again while preventing low level government workers who act as ot soldiers from doing so. it would defy lodgic to phit

them from holding state office except for the highest and most powerful in the land. section 3 doesn't say that. the framers did not intend that. trump is disqualified from holding office again. the court agreed to hear the case with oral arguments to begin december 6. many legal experts believe that this case will ultimately be settled by the u.s. supreme court. secretary, your reaction to judge walace's ruling that former president trump engaged in insurrection but could still remain on the ballot? >> good afternoon. thank you for having me on. i would just say this is a surprising case. i think the judge put a lot of thought and consideration into the case. it's very meaningful that she found the first court in the nation to find he did engage in

insurrection. with that said, i believe that no person should be above the law. that includes the american president. if this decision is let to stand, donald trump will be above the law, at least for committing insurrection. that is troubling. and we will see what the colorado supreme court ultimately has to say. >> are you optimistic about the appeal? >> well, you know, i'm not sure what optimism is in this case. my role as secretary of state is to follow the law and uphold the constitution. there are big questions around section 3 of the 14th amendment. some of which the district court got into, some of which she didn't really delve into. i think it's a good thing that this question is to the courts. i ultimately will follow whatever court decision is in place by the time i certify the ballot. >> let's talk about that deadline, professor.

i believe it puts you at january 5th. is that correct? >> that's right. >> that's right. >> when you hear that the court, professor, is agreeing to do this on an accelerated time line, we have a very clear understanding of what is on the other side of the time line. what does it indicate to you that they were willing to take this up? >> well, it indicates that it's a matter of urgency that relates to the 2024 election. this is a time in which donald trump is facing over 90 indictments. it's a time of urgency as not only the state of colorado prepares for this but other states also considering whether this will be a matter taken up by their courts as well. >> i want to read you from the brief filed by the plaintiffs in colorado. no court should adopt an interpretation of the constitution that has such absurd results unless strictly compelled by unambiguous test.

in this case, the text and history comport with the common sense outcome. section 3 does not disqualify oath breaking insurrectionists from all public office except the highest one. nor does it give a unique free pass to insurrectionist presidents. judge walace with her ruling determines trump engaged in insurrection but could remain on the ballot on the grounds that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to the president. how will those two pieces of the ruling factor into the supreme court's consideration of the appeal? >> first of all, it relates to the question as to whether the president is considered an officer of the federal government. those who have brought this petition say that of course that would be obvious that this applies to the president. the second is that it's a question as to what the oath is that the president has taken. with that, whether there can be

a strict interpretation of what the language actually is in the 14th amendment. i would say that there's something else that we need to look at, which is exactly why this was written into the constitution in 1868. it related expressly to what it was that abolitionists in congress understood about the potential of there being an insurrection against the united states government, and what that would mean. there were members of congress at that time who had been beaten up, who had been threatened. charles sumner had been caned nearly to death in congress days after giving a speech about the abolition of slavery. they knew what the potential was of not only low level federal officers but what it could mean if someone came into the united states presidency who sought to dismantle the union. >> secretary, again, you have said you would follow whichever ruling was in place on january 5, 2024. i broke out my calculator.

that's a little more than six weeks away. that is a tight time line for this appeals court. your primary, it is in march. across the board, we are on a tight time line here. do you think a little more than six weeks, are you confident this legal question can be resolved on that time line? >> i'm confident we will have great elections in the state of colorado just like always. we are considered the nation's gold standard for elections. we will continue to deliver. i do think it's important to state no matter what happens in this case, whether or not donald trump is on the ballot, he is a threat to american democracy. the district court found that he engaged in insurrection. we are seeing his lie after lie after lie, actions to erode our democracy. whether or not he is on the ballot, american voters will have the opportunity to protect our democracy once again, multiple times next year, through the presidential primary and the general election.

>> colorado's secretary of state and professor goodwin, thank you both. ahead, 60 years ago today, one of the darkest days in u.s. history. we will remember the assassination of john f. kennedy and how it reshaped this country after a short break.

today on the anniversary of one of the most tragic days in american history, commemorations

are under way in dallas, texas, where jfk was assassinated and the country brought to its knees in mourning. their brand-new exhibit is marking the anniversary with never before seen art facts from that day, november 22nd, 1963. earlier today in massachusetts, honoring president kennedy's service as a u.s. naval officer in world war ii and later as a commander in chief. and according to the boston globe, the john f. kennedy presidential library is open free to the public today, displaying the american flag draped over his casket in the funeral procession. let's bring in john meacham. his latest book is now out in paper back. john, it is always good to see you. talk to us about what this day meant 60 years ago and how it changed history. >> it was really the inflection

point of the second half of the 20th century, and we still live in the shadow of dallas in my ways. if pearl harbor and d-day shaped the 20th century as a whole, what happened november 22nd, 1963, ended a remarkable presidency that might not have turned out wonderfully but was on a trajectory that made it more and more effective. only 13 months before he was shot down, president kennedy managed the most significant crisis, arguably in human history, the cuban missile crisis. it was one minute to midnight in the phrase, and very nearly led to armageddon, and it was very much president kennedy's diplomatic skill, a little bit of luck, but diplomacy depends on that, that led us. and i think one of the tragedies of ford's theater with lincoln

and the tragedy of dallas with president kennedy is self-evidently you had an american president who was growing and changing. and this is not sentimental. this is a historically based view of how he was involving. the cold war strategy and proposed a nuclear test ban treaty. had raised the possibility of -- >> to canonize president kennedy. but in point of fact, the president who went to dallas trying to shore up his political support in a very conservative region 60 years ago was a president who had a lot more left to give. >> a principles evolution. i have about a minute left, but

i want t connect the dots between the a today. president biden said this today. quote, on this day we rememr he saw a nation of light, not darkness, of honor, not grievance, and a place where we're unwilling to postpone the work he began and that we all must carry forward. what was the promise of kennedy's pregnancy, and how do we get that back as a country? >> well, president kennedy used a phrase that president reagan popularized about -- from john winthrop that america could be a city on a hill, that in fact we were given so much. we have been given so much in natural resources, a tradition of liberty, however imperfect, that we had an obligation. with greatness comes responsibility. at an hour when democracy itself is under severe stress, i think remembering what president kennedy represented, which was he was an imperfect man, but he did leave us a more perfect union, and that's a significant

legacy for anyone. >> that balance between imperfection and perfection. the inimitable john meacham. his latest book is out now in paper back. john meacham as always i'm grateful for your time, expertise, and memory. we're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be right back. hen we'll be right back

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thank you for spending part of your wednesday with us. we are as always so grateful. and from everyone here at "deadline white house" we wish and your family a happy thanksgiving. "the beat" with katie phang in for ari melber is here now. welcome to "the beat." i'm katie phang in for ari melber. we have lots to cover going into this holiday weekend. later tonight, fani willis showcasing her skills in a fulton county courtroom and trump's legal issues coming to a boil in new york civ