>> today began the official ceremony celebrating the life of former first lady rosalynn carter, who passed away last week at the age of 96. at this moment, she's lying in repose at the jimmy carter presidential library and atlanta. where members of the public have been paying their final respects. her husband, former president jimmy carter, is expected to attend her tribute service tomorrow. the 99-year-old former president has been in hospice care since february. also planning to attend our president biden and first lady jill biden, former president --

other former first ladies. michelle obama, laura bush, and melania trump. mrs. carter woodland view laid to rest on wednesday. and that is tonight's reidout. inside with jen psaki starts now. inside with jen psaki starts now. well, there is a lot going on tonight. 11 more hostages have been freed from gaza, and a pause in the fighting has been extended by two days. -- her twin daughters, emma and julie, were among the hostages released today. a member of the family is going to join me live in just a few minutes. plus we're, gonna tell you about a wild news story in the new york times. it's quite a read, about a pardon donald trump gave to a very shady character, and how it up ended the federal investigation by his own justice department. mike schmidt of the new york times broke that story and is here to talk about that now. later, how does the biden

campaign pick a lane of attack against an opponent that is promising to sick the military on american citizens, and also threatening to terminate obamacare? -- join me here in studio. but we do want to start tonight in israel and gaza, where civilians will soon wake up today five of what is now a six-day temporary truce. after it was extended for an additional two days just earlier today. as it stands right now, that means two more days, hostages will be able to leave gaza, and two more days that desperately needed aid will be able to -- what happens after that later this week. but israel did say that they're looking to further extend the cease-fire by one day for every ten additional hostages released by hamas. just hours ago, a group of 11 hostages, including 11 children -- released from captivity and are now on their way home. that brings the total number of hostages freed over the past four days to 69. many of them, israeli william -- women and children finally able

to come face to face with their family members. roughly 15 days as they were -- so far, the negotiations around the release of hostages have been full of some ups and many downs. families are being reunited, many are waiting. children returning home after 50 days of trauma. people learning that they lost loved ones when they were released. and trickles of uncertain and incomplete information. all of that can be maddening and heart wrenching, but it's important to know that there is a reason for the silence. when -- secretary of state, she became known for her vast collection of lapel pens. i have a point here, i promise. i know it's very old school, lapel pence. but this wasn't just a fashion statement. the point of the lapel pence was to send a message. one of her favorite pins was actually a mushroom. yes, a mushroom. her point was that diplomatic negotiations, like mushrooms on her pain, are more likely to thrive in the dark.

when -- diplomatic talks, aubry would simply point to the pin and say a version of, mushrooms grow better in the dark, just like talks. and that's especially true when it comes to hostage negotiations, like this. when any detail prematurely confirmed, or details shared by family members who returned home, who still have loved ones their, could put an entire deal at risk. when you're negotiating with bad actors, a terrorist organization in the case of hamas, and you can't trust anything, and you don't know what's going to happen. now, when you're a spokesperson, as i was for many years in the government, it could be hard to say nothing. it's not contrary to you drop. i remember the time around the detainment of jason -- filed for 544 days in a prison in iran. i was there several times a week, four months, about his status. what is the administration doing to bring him home with the obvious and correct questioned by many reporters. and my decides vying and so it was always the same. we're monitoring the situation closely, i would say, or we're

doing everything possible to bring him home. i know you're hearing a lot of that type of language from the u.s. government, and other officials around the world right now. back then, i imagine being in the position of his wife, and thinking how much i would've hated the line, doing everything possible. who is we? what is possible? and how do you define everything? there were some days when i walked out of the brief room thinking, if we can talk in more detail about what we're gonna do to try to get a innocent journalist out of prison, howell's family and loved ones and supporters have any help? they're clearly significant differences. of course there are, between the payment of jason by a rainy and authorities and the holding of hostages. the u.s. government doesn't know where all the hostages are located. doesn't know the status of many. there are women and children being held alongside israeli soldiers. there's a war going on. there are many differences. but the commonality is the role of diplomacy, and especially the role of quiet diplomacy that has been in the works for weeks, and will continue, must

continue, after the true sense, whenever that may be. it is in part the trips of people like tony blinken, and bill burns. the phone calls between president biden and the qataris and the israelis and the egyptians, that is led us to see some of these joyful homecomings. we will see and know very little over the next several days and weeks, which will be maddening. but that's how mushrooms and talks grow. often best in the dark. joining me now from tel aviv is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, also with us is ayman mohyeldin, he's the host of ayman an msnbc, and he's reported extensively from the region in gaza. thank you both so much for joining me this evening. richard, i want to start with you. he broke some big news this morning about the extension of the truce. what have you've been hearing since then, and what is the latest you're hearing on the ground about what we should expect over the next couple of days? >> well, i guess my job is to turn on the lights and not

always keep people in the dark. but what we were hearing is that this is an incredibly difficult diplomatic process. it's incredibly sensitive. it could fail at anytime. but they are making some progress. the qataris in particular, and now the egyptians. the egyptians are getting more and more involved in this. they're working with hamas. they have an extraordinarily difficult job because the israelis in the palestinians and israelis and hamas don't speak directly to each other, so they relay everything primarily through the qataris. -- from who is being proposed to be set free, and in what condition, under exchange for whom, and what will they get an exchange for that? will they get more food coming in, will they get more access to gaza? so, one of the things that they've been working on right from the beginning was to get these women and children out. in the very early days of this

conflict, hamas expressed a willingness to give up the women and children. but initially, they were asking for all women and children, or women in minors held in israeli jails. and they wanted all palestinian prisoners of any kind released for the rest of the hostages, the males, and what they would consider soldiers. so younger women. that is gone down significantly. so they are at least talking, and they released these 11 today in exchange for 33 palestinians, and it is expected that tomorrow, there will be maybe ten, perhaps more hostages again released from gaza, and then another ten plus the day after that. the real question is, what happens as the number of

hostages starts to dwindle? starts to reach a real low number? the hostages that hamas is not willing to give up, and what is israel's ultimate goal? is this just about getting the hostages back? where are they also looking for some sort of off-ramp? israel is not indicating at this stage that it's looking for an off ramp. >> and that question, and your job is absolutely to bring light, the jobs of the media is absolutely to do that. i think it's important for people to know where the governments are coming from and why they're so quiet, but i appreciate you making that point. and ayman, to the point richard just raised, there's this expectation, maybe hope, that this will continue, that hostages will continue to be released. but one of the things and some of your reporting that is stuck out to me with this line, where you quoted, a veteran israeli hostage negotiator said to you, quote, he will have to have some hostages to use as human shields for himself. so i want to ask you about that, and richard alluded to this a

little bit. it is unlikely, it seems, but all of the hostages will be released. 70 or so our israeli military. what is your expectation? what are you hearing from your reporting about kind of where this goes? >> reporter: yeah. that's a part of the interview that my colleague, ana schachter did, and it's in reference to the current leader of hamas, certainly the prime minister of hamas, within the gaza strip, with the belief they wanted to hold on to the israeli soldiers that they have, which is roughly estimated to be about 70 israeli soldiers, to be used and whatever final stage of negotiations they can possibly extract from the israelis. no part of that, as we understood that, it's gonna be very much down the road, as richard was just saying. when you start to see the number of hostages and hamas's custody and other militant groups inside of gaza dwindle, you're gonna get to a point where you're gonna have to make a decision yet again. does israel go forward with operations to try to rescue and recover those 70 israeli soldiers? or do they continue with this

mechanism now that has been established? a willingness by hamas to negotiate? of course, the demands for the soldiers will increase exponentially by hamas. that could include very specific names inside israel. it could also include, now that the dynamics inside gaza has changed and israeli troops are on the ground, a full withdrawal of israeli soldiers from gaza outside of the gaza strip. all of these things are gonna start to emerge over the next 48 to 72 hours as the qataris and the egyptians begin to see what happens next as we get through the next 48 hours. and the last batch of civilian hostages that includes women and children. >> so richard, you're on the ground there. i know we don't entirely know exactly what israel is planning, but what should our expectations be? what are you watching for in terms of the next stages of the military campaign? is that the expectation it as maximalist as it's been? could it change? >> well, i think ivan is exactly right in that these initial hostages, the women and

children, are the easy ones. and we should look at what has been going through -- what we've been going through over the last several days as just the easy phase, the beginning phase. because hamas, like i said, right from the beginning, expressed a willingness to release these people. i think there's an impression that hamas may have overreached, may have taken too many people. the group came under extreme criticism, including in the arab world, for taking women, for taking the elderly, for taking disabled people. it showed a lack of discipline. it showed a lack of decency. but, releasing the soldiers will be a much, much higher bar, and could encourage from us to ask for things like the full withdrawal of israeli troops. why do i think we're going? it really depends on how far the israelis want to push this, and what they see is their

ultimate objective. if you took what they say at face value, they say they want to carry regime change inside gaza. and carrying a regime change means you need to get rid of the previous regime, in this case, hamas, and put something in its place. change it with something else. and there were no good answers at this stage of what would that replacement be. are they talking about holding a new election? when, under whose auspices? under the win? and the egyptians? how would that happen? what they try and bring in some sort of puppet government, the way the united states imagined doing in iraq? that didn't go very well. so, how does israel plan to carry out this sort of regime change within gaza? that's one. the other is, they talk about disarming hamas and making hamas never able to carry out

attacks. that certainly is happening, and they are going through the gaza strip and the sort of campaign to crush hamas militarily. but even that, so far, seems to have had limited success. they've talked about clearing areas in the north, but hamas is still able to operate in the north. they released some of the hostages from northern gaza, from areas that had supposedly been cleared. and then, israel talks about going to the south. so our israeli troops are now in northern gaza now going to suddenly, or at some future stage, start driving into the south and telling all the people who were told to go to the south that they now have to move to the coast? to move to central gaza? or move somewhere else? so this could end up being a very long and very deep conflict for the israelis and gaza. it could end up being some sort of long insurgency as well, because generally, people don't like when puppet governments

are imposed upon them. also, what's to do about hamas? clearly, israel can't just leave them there. every day, hamas says it's going to carry out more attacks, every day, hamas is gaining popularity across the arab world. so what can be done? and so far, aside from these small, and i would describe them as relatively tactical, successes, these couple of day truces, one day, two days, in this case, four plus two truths, they've been able to abscess with this. but not success with the larger issue of where is this going, and how can israel achieve its strategic jewel of living safely within its borders and not having an enemy just across the fence and gaza determined to carry out more and more october seven level attacks? >> richard engel, ayman mohyeldin, we all continue to

bring light to the story. appreciate all the reporting you've both done and for joining me this evening. tonight, more families will soon be reunited with their loved ones. families like cher browne and her twin dollar darius, emma and julia, were among the 11 hostages released today. her sisters -- her husband is still being held by hamas. the family was abducted from their kibbutz in southern october on october 7th. in the weeks since the attack, daniel and sharon's family -- the cousin is joining me right now. thank you so much for being with me this evening. first, i can't imagine what this last 50 days plus have been for you and your family. you've been so heroic in really raising the story so publicly, and with a tremendous amount of grace. i want to ask you about the fact that so many of these kids are returning home, and mothers

and wives, without their husbands. and they're being left behind at this point. and as a family member, what impact is that having? what is your thoughts on all the men and husbands and fathers who are being left behind at this point? >> yeah. it's really heartbreaking. of course, as you said, he's being left behind. every child that was released today also has a father being left behind. it just feels like a really cruel game to be playing on the families. you know, she's gonna come out and look to heal, as well her children, and they're going to have to do that without their father. it's just another trauma compacted on top of trauma. >> and that trauma, i think, is something that's so important for people to remember. because we're seeing these joyful moments of people reunited with family members, but these children, these people who've been held hostage, mothers and family members, they have a long road ahead.

what do you think people should know about that road ahead? and what kind of help and resources that many of these hostages are going to need? >> yeah. exactly. so, it's celebratory, seeing them smile, seeing them be reunited. but we can't ignore the fact that they've been in captivity for 50 days, and now they're going to be learning about what happened on october 7th. some children are gonna be learning about, you know, what could've happened to family members. and i think they need support to heal. the emotional trauma is going to be great, and of course, he is a family member, i'm gonna do my best, but therapists who are specializing in ptsd and really just the world -- they need your support to help them heal, to help them move past this as best they can. >> i know that you've said you're eager to hug --

eager, i'm sure, to hug your family members and be with them. what do you want to tell them when you see them? >> i just want to tell them how much i love them, how brave they are, how brave these little girls are to have made it through this nightmare that they've been to area, and just to tell them also how many people across the world loved them and put their pictures up and cried for them and prayed for them. i received such outpouring of messages, and i'm gonna tell them how many people across the world have been thinking of them. >> that is certainly true. so many people have been thinking about them around the world. i know as you've been out there, you've been mindful and thinking about what you can and cannot say, and i think this is probably on the minds of a lot of the family members who still have people who are being held by hamas. talk to me a little bit about what's going through your mind in terms of what information you feel comfortable sharing

and whatnot, and seen with other family members? >> yeah. i really don't know very much information at all. -- just got back, and she's really being sheltered, and held close by her immediate family right now. i think it's too risky to be sharing information, and i'm sure that's what we'll see of many families who are being released. you know, we have to be still there, and so many other hostages, we just don't want to risk anything in regards to their safety and potential return. so, we really don't have very much information to share, and if i did, it's not something, you know, i would want to share, because they don't want to risk anything. >> which is, i think, important for people to hear. thank you. i look forward to you hugging all your family members and beg reunited with them. we're all thinking of divvied as well, as i know everyone in your family's. thank you so much for being here with me this evening. coming up next, here's the

headline from the new york times. a troubling trump pardon and a link to the kushner's. the story involves drug smuggling, -- federal investigation. i promise it is as crazy as it sounds. it also tells us a lot about how donald trump would handle pardons, and the justice department, if you takes back the white house. that story and the reporter who broke it are coming up next. we're just getting started this hour, and we'll be right back. hour, and we'll be right back. just sleep. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable

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get a piece of investigative reporting that tells us a lot about donald trump. who he chooses to associate himself with, and how he operates. and on sunday, the new york times posted one of those stories. and boy, was it a doozy. this times report was just about one of the hundred and 43 pardons and commutations that trump granted on this last day in office. one given to a guy named

jonathan braun, courtesy of jared kushner. want to tell you about this guy, because as i said, this one story tells us a lot about how trump operated his presidency, and how one could expect he would continue to operate if he was to win a second turn. all began back in 2009, after the -- a stash house for a marijuana smuggling ring that braun was running. as the reports, when brian found out about the raid, he rented a car and drove 25 hours straight to an indian reservation in upstate new york, where justin black, he was smuggled into canada, according to court filings. he then slip fled to israel. not exactly the actions of an innocent guy, i think it's fair to say. but by 2010, he was behind bars in new york as he awaited trial. braun eventually agreed to plead guilty after a year and a half in jail, and as part of that deal with prosecutors, he began secretly coorang with other investigations into drugs

mcglynn and exchange for house arrest and delayed sentencing. then, as the times writes, for asons that remain unexplained, mr. braun was been permitted by the u.s. attorney's office in brooklyn to live relatively freely for nearly the next decade. and that's when he was able to turn his focus to an enterprise rife with cash and threats, providing loans to struggling small businesses that often had nowhere else to turn. this, as you probably know, is known as predatory lending, or is some line for some officials might call it, loan sharking. giving vulnerable small businesses money very quickly, but on the condition of exorbitant interest rates. and withdrawn, those interest rates were sometimes grear than 1000%. 1000%. if those loans weren't paid in full, braun often followed up with threats of violence. among thosee threatened with a real estate developer who said brown bowled him, quote, i will take your daughters from you. d at the borough assent and

an affidavit that braun told him, he thankfully are not new york, because your family would find you floating in the hudson. and according to the times report, brian told a rabbi who owed him money, i'm going to make you bleed. nearly a decade after brown was charged in the drug case, prosecutors finally scheduled his sentencing. during this process, accusations of his violent threats were filed on the docket, of the judge overseeing the case, of course. leading that judge to sentence braun to ten years in prison. now, while he was serving his sentence, the u.s. attorney's office in manhattan was trying to build a wide ranging criminal fraud case focused on predatory lenders. the world that brown had spent the last decade working in. so brown was kind of the perfect candidate to service a cooperator to aid prosecutors. and according to the times, when he was approached with an opportunity to get out of prison, he made it clear h would do anything the goveme asked him, including wearing a wire to record calls with his business partners. but, as the times also explains,

what the prosecutors did not know was that braun, his family, and allies were pursuing an entirely different effort to help him regain his freedom through the white house's clemency process. among the channels that were exploited was a tie to the kushner family. yes, that family. according to the times, brown had gone to the school with jared's younger sister, and their fathers had known each other for years. brandon's family also retained the help of alan dershowitz, a trump ally with close ties with jared. and would you believe it? the white house angle ended up working out for braun. just hours after -- the white house and at the news release written by mr. kushner's office, announcing mr. bronze commutation. you no longer agreed to cooperate in the case, of course -- why would he. he had a giant get out of jail free card courtesy of donald trump. and just a few months after his release, when you know, braun

was back working as a predatory lending loan shark. what is this all tell us. for one, it tells us that tough on crime donald trump offended the federal investigation by his own justice department. that's not how it supposed to work. it also tells us how trump and his administration ran pretty fast and loose with presidential pardons. a tremendous power that usually runs through a highly vetted process outside the department of justice. but not so in the trump administration. meanwhile -- is this old quote that goes -- for my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law. that is -- that's how he will continue to operate if he ever gets the levers of government again. mike schmidt, one of the new york times reporters who broke the story, joins me after a quick break. ke the story, joins me after quick break. quick break.

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decision to commute the prison sentence of jonathan brown on the last day of his presidency. e, nearly three days later, the consequences of mr. brown's commutation are becoming clear. raising new questions about how mr. trump intervened in criminal justice decio, and what he could do and a second term. -- make good on his suggestions that he would free supporters convicted of storming the capital and possibly even pardon himself if convicted of the federal charges he faces. michael schmidt is a washington correspondent for the new york times. he's one of the reporters who

broke the wild story, and he joins me now. let me start with congratulating you on the birth of your daughter, and i don't even know how you're doing all this reporting. you either don't need sleep, you have the same today, maybe a combination, but congratulations and the most important thing that happened last week when. >> thank you very much. >> so, i just went through a lot of the details. the story is quite a doozy to read. i read it a couple of times. but i want to ask you, you worked on the story, you wrote it. was there anything that i missed, but that people should understand to understand how crazy this is and why this story matters? >> yeah. i think one of the things about this story that's what makes it hard is that there's so much there. there's so many different issues. on some levels, and this doesn't get as much attention in the story, it's a major failure by the justice department. it's a 15-year failure. they knew, 15 years ago, when

they said that this was an under terrible person who would do anything to stay out of prison, he would use violent threats against other people, you may even use violence himself, and he was basically -- had all this money to do whatever he wanted, and would go do extreme lengths to do it. and despite that, they let him out of prison, he was out for a decade, he engaged in nearly identical behavior, and he then was ultimately sentenced to ten years in prison. but in the end, donald trump commits his sentence, and he's back out there, and he was bird by a judge just a few weeks ago from operating in the state of new york because he's continuing to engage in this behavior. so, share, a lot of this is about the commutation. but a lot of it is about the u.s. attorney's office in brooklyn which allowed him to engage in this conduct for ten years while he cooperated in an investigation.

>> -- it kind of undercut an entire larger federal investigation in that part as well. what is been the fallout that you've seen of this case? internally? have you heard from other sources since you reported the story? >> so, the thing that significant here is that in 2020, you have this investigation into the predatory loan industry, into the emerging cast advantages. -- you give alone to the company for anywhere from 1000 to $500, 000, and they've taken back tens of thousands of dollars more. you take a 5000 dollar loan, you pay 7500 or $10,000 back. in some ways, that's illegal. what bryan was doing was an extreme fraudulent version of that. the government was trying to stop people like that. they thought they had a cooperator in braun to sort of turn on the people in the industry. and what happens is that in

these negotiations with him, and they think they're gonna have this cooperator, they're gonna have someone who can turn on other people, put pressure on them, and allow them to build out a case. and during these negotiations, but not thinking, the prosecutors are not thinking, oh, he's gonna get a pardon, he's gonna get a commutation. they say he's a terrible candidate to get a commutation. we don't need to worry about this. this guy's gonna be in prison for seven more years, it's gonna come to the table, he's gonna agree to the terms that we want on this plea deal. and on january 20th, it's announced that he's received his commutation, and he kills their leverage. it just kills the pressure that they had on him. and they go back to braun after he gets out, and he basically calls their bluff and says, indict me. and the government has still not indicted him or anyone else in this cash advance investigation. >> it's bananas. the whole story, just leaving through it. one of the things that also stuck out to me and was a reminder to mhang worked in

government f sething years, is what bill barrai when he took over the justice department, quote, there were pardons being given it without any vetting by the department. and this is so interesting, because this tradition here, right? as you know, because you've covered this for many years, why the justice department oversees the vetting process. right? and it goes to the white house. but it's not law. the president has the ability to pardon people on his own. this raises a big question about what donald trump, as you raised in the story, it would do in his second term, because there aren't legal protections. tell me about your thinking on that. >> so the pardon power is sort of perfect to sort of have a trumpian element to it. because it's almost unilateral. he can do whatever he wants. the justice department can't stop him from doing it. he doesn't need the attorney general. the courts can't step in and stop him. congress can't stop him. it creates instant tanya's loyalty. we're just talking about jonathan braun, we're not talking about let mike flynn,

are righteous time, or paul madrid -- >> because you can do it unilaterally. >> who also received clemency. correct. he can just do it on his own. so, the idea, in the obama administration, was to have a structure in place so that it would seem that the clemency process was not about rewarding donors, or allies, or friends. it was about rewarding people that deserved mercy, people who truly deserve clemency. so the department had to elaborate, perhaps almost to obama like process, where every prosecutor who had every case was consulted and wrote memos. is this person a good candidate for that? they went back and forth, and they debated that, they debated it, the more my mouse, and they went through this whole thing to make sure that when they want to use these clemency powers, as they did in pretty extreme in extraordinary ways, to free non violent drug offenders, they were doing it

to people who deserved it. or were certainly good candidates for it. because they didn't have, say, violent pasts, or other criminal exposure. they put that process in place. that did not exist, nothing close to that existed in this case. >> michael schmidt, i was telling someone earlier that whenever you saw your name on your phone, you're such a good investigative reporter, it makes you nervous for my time in government. so thank you for talking about so many important things, and congratulations again. coming up next, donald trump is promising to unleash troops on american citizens, and that actually might not be the scariest that he's made in the past few days. it's time to start listening closely. that's next. ng closely. that's next. that's next. i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too.

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but a very important thing to know about donald trump is just how badly he hates to fail. how badly he hates to lose. how badly he hates not getting his way. and it's important to know this about him because it can really help us think about the dangers associated with a second trump term. the most obvious example is how he handled his defeat and the 2020 election. helitelly tried to overthrow the gornment. and in an cially scary part of trump's plot but thankfully never happened was the implementation of the insurrection act. it's a federal statute from the civil war era that authorizes the president to deploy the military and the national guard within the united states and response to civil disorder or

rebellion. we know the civil war area statute was popular in trump world because jack smith's indictment details how -- suggested using it to stop protests, if and when they stole the election. we also know it because trump considered using the insurrection act to stop protests after the murder of george floyd, but was talked out of it. so it's clear that trump wanted to invoke the insurrection t when he didn't get his way. and you'd better believe he's planning to the next time around. the associated press reports today, quote, trump has not spelled out precisely how he might use the military during his second term, although he and his advisers have suggested they have latitude to call up the units. latitude to call up units? let's pause on that for a moment. that's units of american troops to be used against american citizens. here's another example of something that didn't go trump's way during his first time in office. repealing and replacing obamacare. a plan that was stopped when the late senator john mccain gave that epic thumbs down on the floor of the senate.

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weaponize the justice department against his enemies. mass deportations, using troops to go after american protesters, and also to kill obamacare. -- a big part of the team trying to make sure none of that happens. no pressure to quinton. he's the principal dime -- biden-harris 2024 came pain, and he joins me in studio. no pressure there with what's on your shoulders. so, as i just outlined there, i mean, there is a lot to talk about in terms of the threat of a second term. obviously, there's the threat to democracy, abortion rights, obamacare. what if you found is the most effective with voters? and what should people expect to be seeing more from the campaign? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me tonight, jen, it's a pleasure to be here with you. all of it, really. a second donald trump term would be disastrous for americans, particularly americans of color. all over across the board. you know, we're gonna focus on

making sure that we call out these things that he's saying, that he would kill, for instance, obamacare today, is just the latest thing on the chopping block. it's not really a surprise. there's not many pieces of legislation that actually literally save lives, and the aca and obamacare is one of them. and it's no surprise that donald trump, the so-called architect of the birther movement, is going after the marquee piece of legislation for the first african american president. who does that? this is something that would literally rip away health care from 40 million americans, drive up the uninsured rate -- >> so you think it's about obama more than health care? >> i think it's a petty grievance from someone who is unfit and woefully unqualified to be president of the united states, and it's in stark contrast to what joe biden is doing to lower health care costs, cap the cost of prescription drugs, lifesaving drugs, and make health care more affordable. so all this is somebody that stumbling down and being completely petty and not focused on the real issues that are impacting americans. >> so, the president i know loves the phrase, you probably heard him say many times, don't compare me to the almighty. compare me to the alternative.

right? he loves to say that, he's not the only one who says that. i think a lot of democrats that there are wanting to see more contrast, right? more pounding it donald trump. we've seen a little bit of that from the campaign. but what should we expect in the days and weeks ahead? it's a trump campaign spokespeople, is that the paid media, is that the president himself? >> it's gonna be all across the board. our campaign understands that we're gonna have to -- one of them is gonna be the contrast with donald trump, whatever the republican party puts forward, the other's gonna be what joe biden is doing for american voters. creating 14 million jobs, 800,000 manufacturing good jobs going, after big pharma, trying to with store roe. -- there's a lot at stake. the end of this election is gonna be about who was trying to make our democracy safer, and i encourage everybody watching at home to text join to 30330 to see how they can get involved and help, because

it's gonna take all of us to win. -- i >> love that little integration of the fundraising text there. very good work. i want to ask you about some of the polls. look, i want to ask you this because there's some freak-out going on out there in the country, including among democrats, including among some of the key parts of the democratic, you know, this. young people, communities of color, what can you tell us about what the campaign is doing to kind of bring some of those people back? is it about issues, is it about more of that contrast? what's happening in the strategy meetings? >> i think it's a mixture of both, right? on one hand, i always start by saying that we don't take any of these audiences for granted. whether it be voters of color, younger voters, and the voters who are turning it to vote for joe biden and kamala harris, we're not taking for granted. you know, i focuses on john that contrast in talking about, you know, what we want to do, and what we've accomplished. so for younger voters in particular, you know, focusing on the fact the president is fighting to prevent gun violence, fighting for climate

change while donald trump is, you know, as recently as today with the i.r.a., saying he would repeal it, or try to roll it back. these are things that we have to be focused on and have to make core to our campaign and the messaging to talk to these voters. we're gonna have to do that in a lot of different ways. as i companion and said, we're already up on television, 25 million dollar out for tyson block. >> a lot of money. >> a lot of money very early in the campaign. we are looking at getting boots on the ground early in the new year. this is gonna have to be assisting conversations. and when it comes to minority voters, -- african american voters, we -- not monolithic. we don't approach the side -- we know we have to work with them, talk to them about the fact that they said joe biden to the white house and he accomplish these things to remove barriers, to make their lives easy. and that's a conversation that we're looking forward to happening, and that we've been having. that's core to everything we're doing, is making sure we don't take any of these voters for granted now or next year. >> one of the groups, of course, as muslim americans, and there has been some strong reaction,

of course, to what we've seen in terms of the death numbers and gaza, and some disappointment by some in the actions of the president and strongly supporting israel, as much as there have been some moments of joy. hostages returning. diplomacy is very complicated. we've been talking about that in this show. what do you wish people would know about what joe biden is doing, his focus here? >> first of all, the president always says it's really important for us to continue to engage with folks, even when they're upside us. as you know, you've probably heard him say it before. i wish -- this is tough for me, because i wish i could come on television and talk a buddy all the things that joe biden is doing to bring hostages home, to keep innocent civilians in the region safe. but as you know, this work is normally -- this american diplomacy is normally done behind closed doors, because that's where it's most effective. so i can't do that. joe biden has not, since day one of this, treated this is a political issue. he's treated this as an issue from being commander-in-chief,

keeping america safe, and that's where his focus says. and so, for us, that's the reason that 81 million americans turned out to send joe biden to the white house in the first place. and it's in stark contrast to what donald trump and the republicans bring to the table, and unfortunately, and our political climate, you know, the people who go at and be their chest about everything that they do get the attention. that's not new joe biden's. but the at the end of the day, that's exactly why joe biden was elected four years ago. >> quentin folks, you have a lot on your plate. thank you so much for joining me here this evening. and that does it for me tonight. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok, and instagram, and a reminder that you can listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. the rachel maddow show is coming up up next. it actually starts right now. hi, rachel. >> hi, jen. much appreciated, my friend. thank you very much. >> thank you. sfwloo and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. very happy to have you with us. the young man is not from there, not from the place where he