sorry -- joe biden winning by a margin of about 43,000 votes over three states. donald trump in 2016 winning by a margin of 77,000 votes or so over three states. go back to the 2000 election, 500 some votes in florida making the difference. we are in this incredibly, evenly polarized time. not entirely evenly in terms of the popular vote. democrats win the popular vote. but evenly matched with how the votes stack up in the electoral college. there's no reason to expect this election will be different. >> polls provide a useful snapshot, but this far out, that's about it. again, it's going to be close. >> nbc news senior national politics reporter jonathan allen, thank you so much, for being with us. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ welcome to "morning joe." it is thuray, november 30th. we have a lot to get to this

morning, including the lest on the temporary truce in gaza. israel and hamas agreed to extend it one more day, but there are signs those talks are becoming more contentious. we'll get a live report from jerusalem in just a moment. also ahead, president joe biden was on the road yesterday pushing his message on the economy, jobs, and the contrast between his administration and former president trump. but he's dropped a key phrase from his speeches. we'll tell you what it is and why he may not be using it anymore. it comes as donald trump continues to rail against a policy that is popular with many americans. plus, we'll take a look at the life and legacy of former secretary of state henry kissinger, who passed away yesterday at the age of 100. along with joe, willie, and me, we have columnist and associate editor for "the

washington post," david ignatius. white house editor for "politico," sam stein. and nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell is here. joe, andrea was just telling me a story of when she heard the news about the passing of henry kissinger. i think we all took a moment to reflect when the news broke. >> well, so much to reflect on. >> yeah. >> as "the new york times" said this morning, rightfully, he was a hugely significant figure in u.s. foreign policy, in american politics. i had no idea he was on the cover. for those of us a little bit older, this used to mean something in a significant way. he was on the cover of "time" magazine 15 times. >> wow. >> and one of those times, david ignatius, did not make his boss, richard nixon, very happy.

it is when "time" called nixon and kissinger men of the year in 1972. but a very complex legacy, as well as, i must say on a personal note, a very complicated relationship with mika's father. >> so, joe, he did have a complicated relationship with mika's dad. he and brzezinski really were the two towering foreign policy intellectuals of their time. a striking thing was that a the funeral of brzezinski, the head of the thinktank for strategic and international studies, which kissinger had been close to, wrote a letter from henry kissinger in which he expresses deep regret that he'd never really said all the things of admiring and praiseworthy that he had wanted to in his

lifetime. it was a moment i think everyone in the audience has never forgotten. showed, to me, how complicated a person kissinger was. he was struggling, striving as a young immigrant to make it in foreign policy with a patronage of the rockefellers, other prominent people in america. he was a genuinely brilliant person who, in the first book, set forth how he looked at the world, about stability. his model was the congress of vienna, if viewers can remember, in 1815, which established peace in europe for 100 years. kissinger was fascinated, how did that happen? he continued to be that diplomat, that balance of power player in the old european sense through his career. he did things we admired. he did things i think most people would think were just dreadful. but such a complicated person. >> he really was. it is a shame mike barnicle isn't with us today. of course, mike covered the

congress of vienna in 1815 for the "boston globe." >> now, now. [ laughter ] >> we'll talk to mike about that tomorrow. i'm sorry, anne, it's just a joke. we'll talk more about kissinger's legacy. quickly, yes, but read dr. brzezinski's diaries, it was complicated. he wept. henry did when hearing of the news. wrote a beautiful letter to your mother and your family. >> yeah. >> we'll be talking about that legacy ahead. i'm sure you have thoughts. >> well, no, i just think i sort of, in my mind, celebrate the moments when they would get together on stage or around a table and they would spar in a joyful way over issues. willie, they both had a deep appreciation for the complexity of global issues, like the ones

we're facing today in ukraine and trying to bring together nato, and also, of course, the war in the middle east, which is our top story this morning. willie. >> by the way, mike barnicle is, in fact, here today, warming up in the bullpen, joe. he was on pool duty that day in the autumn of 1814 for "the globe." he'll update us on that. >> fantastic. let's get to the top story. israel and hamas have agreed to extend the pause in fighting by another day. the o sides struck the deal over minutes before the truce was set to expire. this as israel and hamas had last-minutedisagreements over which hostages should be freed. in a statement, prime minist benjamin netanyahu explained the israeli government gave hamas a deadline to provide a list of women and cn who will be released next. warning, if that doesn't happen, the fighting will resume. netanyahu says that deadline was then met. officials say the terms of this tended pause are the same as

before, in which hamas must release ten hostages in exchange for israel freeing 30 palestinian prisoners. negotiators had been hoping to get a longer pause in the fighting, as the humanitarian crisis in gaza is worsening. before the pause in fighting was extended, hamas released 16 hostages, including one american. the group consisted of ten israelis, four thai nationals, and two russian dual citizens. liat beinin was among the americans believed to be held captive in gaza. the white house doesn't have a number of americans they think are being held, thinking it is between seven to ten. she and abigail edan are the only americans to be released so far. joining us from jerusalem is foreign correspondent richard engel. another day, another 24-hour extension. they're coming in small increments, but another batch of hostages released which is good

news. >> it is good news, but i can tell you, things are not looking nearly as encouraging today as they were when we spoke yesterday. yesterday, there was hope that it could be a two-day plus extension of this truce, that there could be a path to potentially a wider deal, but in the 11th hour, this truce was agreed to only be extended by one day. it was a major disagreement when hamas put forward an initial list, saying they were going to hand over seven hostages and the bodies of three hostages who were killed, according to hamas, in israeli air strikes, and israel rejected that. the talks do seem to be, i don't want to say breaking down, but entering into a much more complicated phase. so we are now only in a one-day extension, then there's tension

building around this negotiation. there was a shooting attack here in jerusalem this morning, according to israeli police. two palestinians from here in jerusalem, from east jerusalem, attacked a group of israelis, killing three of th, wounding several others. three of them in serious condition. yesterday, there was a raid in the west bank city, and two palestinian boys were killed. they were buried last night in the darkness, which is very unusual for muslim burials, because the people were afraid the israeli military would raid again. tensions are already starting to escalate significantly as the talks are breaking down. we could be entering the final hours, the final day of the

military truce in gaza. ing that has costs. it has costs for the people of gaza. according to the health ministry run by hamas, 15,000 people in gaza have already been killed. for israel, there's the cost. there's the cost it'll once again face an international public relations backlash if it starts its military campaign against gaza, particularly in the south. and it could slow or stop this process that we're seeing now, where hamas has been slowly releasing some of its hostages in exchange for relatively low-level palestinian prisoners. so it's not over until it's over, but, this morning, willie, things are not looking very good. >> richard, when the fighting resumes, as you suggest, it may happen very soon from the israel side, we've been talking to military experts in the last couple days who say they expect it to be perhaps more targeted from the israeli side, meaning special forces, special operations, looking for hostages, perhaps less bombing. is that your sense of things as israel is aware, with a nudge from the white house perhaps, that it needs to stop killing

civilians as it looks for hamas? >> reporter: that is the messaging that has come from the white house. the white house has quite publicly been briefing journalists, making public statements, saying that that's what it wants israel to do. if israel does go ahead and resume its bombing campaign, it wants it to be more targeted this time, not just using heavy bunker buster bombs in crowded refugee camps like it did in parts of the northern gaza strip. but we will see if that happens. israel's consistent argument has been that hamas uses human shields, that it puts its tunnels under civilian areas, and there is only so much that it can do. we will see if it is more of a targeted campaign. israel may claim that it is carrying out a more targeted campaign, and hamas and the people in gaza could easily claim that israel is carrying out indiscriminate bombings.

so a more targeted campaign is a bit of a degree of perception. i'm not sure that, necessarily, we're going to see a campaign that is bloodless and that will be accepted by the world. we will see what happens, frankly. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel reporting live from jerusalem again this morning. thank you, as always, richard, we appreciate it. joe, another one-day extension here in the truce in fighting. we may be running out of time, as richard said, with these sort of 24-hour extensions to get hostages out. could see fighting again soon. >> maybe running out of hostages. >> right. >> we still don't know how many hostages are still alive. we don't know how many hostages were killed. the women who were brutally raped and then taken into captivity, chances are good we will never see them again, sadly, tragically, because hamas is so barbaric. israel finds itself in, from the

very start, a no-win situation. they endured the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust, then they dealt with the kidnappings where hamas, you have a terrorist group, hamas, who kidnapped women, children, 3-month-old babies, and, you know, of course hamas has always used their people as human shields. you know, i said at the beginning of this,llie, for hamas, a dead jew was the same as a dead palestinian. i think i had my calculations wrong. i think hamas figured out that a dead palestinian that they used as a human shield was worth ten dead jews. hamas has known exactly how this was going to play out from the

very beginning. when they raped and brutalized women, drove them around, and other palestinians were beating them and brutalizing sometimes dead corpses, when they burned babies in the crib, shot babies multiple times in the cribs. hamas knew what they were doing, and they knew exactly how this would unfold. they'd take hostages, put them in tunnels underground. the israelis would have to come and try to destroy an organization that did the most heinous things and killed more jews since the holocaust, then the world would go up in arms because they had to go to a densely populated area to try to root out the terrorists who did this to their women, to their children, to their grandmothers and grandfathers.

so here we are. andrea, israel finds itself in a position where it has to root out hamas. it has to destroy the terror organization. they have no other choice, in such a confined space. in such a confined space, you cannot live, you know -- a wall cannot separate you from a governing body that came over on october 7th and did the savage things they did to israelis. but help us out here. what does the biden administration think? what do israelis think, andrea, about the unfolding situation? the longer this pause goes on, the more this terrorist organization regroups, and the more hostages released, great, great news for the israelis and for all of us, seeing these joyous pictures.

also, hamas, as "the new york times" reported, gains more power in the west bank because they're seen as the great liberators of palestinian hostages. seems everywhere israel turns, they face a more difficult choice, so what's the next step here? >> it's so difficult. obviously, the most complicated foreign policy issue that any of our leaders, that any of us have faced as analysts. basically, the administration is now beginning to pivot slightly. there are those in the administration who really are trying to persuade the one decider, the president of the united states, that the bear hug was important in the beginning but it can't be continuing, given the civilian casualties. even if the hamas numbers of 15,000 dead are exaggerated, you're still talking about thousands and thousands of people, the devastation which,

tactically, is losing a lot of force for israel. the argument is publicly as well as privately that they have to change tactics. they have to use precision weapons, which we are hoping to provide. they have to figure out not to use the dumb bombs, the busters they used on the refugee camp, for instance. they can't go heavy in the south where 80% of the population has been at their own direction moved from the north into so-called safe zones. there is no way to do it. they have to use more ground forces, increasing the casualty rate of the idf. there are trade-offs there. >> they're preparing for it right now during the pause. >> they're trying to persuade israel of doing a better job of controlling what they view, what the administration views itself as the extremist settlers. this was spoken at the united nations security council yesterday by our u.n. ambassador in a balanced approach. but she said they have to do something to prevent a real

uprising in the west bank. that'll be two fronts now. what we have is secretary of state blinken on his third trip there in israel, you know, waking up today and also going to ramallah to see the palestinians. they're trying to balance that. most importantly, bill burns in qatar, trying to negotiate a longer cease-fire. they do think they have controlled, to the best extent they can, with the help of u.s. intelligence now, the overflights, the reaper drones. they are doing a better job. they can't get to the tunnels, but they're doing a better job of at least getting intelligence on hamas. they have to figure out a way, yes, to get into the tunnels, but what they're trying to do is try to get an agreement that would increase the adult-aged men, the idf women, and some of the other hostages to extend this. that is now looking less and

less and less probable. >> david, let's talk more about the dilemma the biden administration finds itself in. to andrea's point, there is hopes to extend the cease-fire to get the hostages out, but that seems to be waning somewhat. we reported yesterday we had the president muse over the weekend he might be open to attach conditions to aiding israel. the white house knocked that down, saying that is not on the table. they are delivering the message to israel, "hey, your strikes need to be targeted. knock off the violence in the west bank." is your sense, though, the israelis and prime minister netanyahu, in particular, are they listening? >> i think israel has to listen when its principal superpower backer expresses strong opinions. biden has a lot of credibility in israel after going quickly to israel. israel was really shattered by the october 7 attacks. embracing israel and giving it stern advice. this hostage release process

probably has some more time to go. there are technical difficulties now on getting the list. it is my understanding in people involved in these negotiations that there is agreement on the categories that will be released in the next series of waves. it could go all the way through to the soldiers, the israeli soldiers who were really the prize that hamas cares most about. they've talked in detail, bill burns, with the head of mediators. what i hear haunting administration officials, and probably people in israel, is one we see in every conflict. how does this war end? how, in the end, does israel achieve the goal of destroying hamas so it never rules gaza again? who maintains stability. >> is netanyahu the person who

can do that? it is hard to find an israeli who thinks benjamin netanyahu will be prime minister after this war ends. he has become quite unpopular in israel. >> right. sam stein, while there is the hope of more hostages, don't know how many if there are, but the psychological need to bring these family members home is huge in terms of the overall makeup of moving forward in the war, trying to get to solutions. as andrea pointed out, ground forces might be needed opposed to the bunker busters. and we all know that hamas is preparing for that during this pause every single moment they can. >> right. joe undermined the main issue, which is the long-term solution is complicated by the short-term tactics. hamas' popularity is gaining

because of the release of the palestinian prisoners, which, in turn, complicates netanyahu's vision for a post hamas gaza. when you hear netanyahu interviewed and is pressed on this issue which david articulated about, okay, what comes next after the invasion, there's not sound answers, not really anything he can say. plainly, hamas cannot be in charge, but also the palestinian authority cannot be in charge. there is not a political entity in gaza that anyone can identify that will then come into power. if that is the case, what is the post invasion reality, or is there a post invasion reality? does the idf have to stay there and be a de facto ruling body? if so, doesn't it increase the popularity of hamas? obviously, complicated political questions, but this is the issue that netanyahu hasn't really tackled, at least as i can see it, which is, sure, short-term

tactics, fine. we understand, root out hamas. sure, the hostage situation where you negotiate hostage release makes a lot of sense. eventually, you run out of hostages to release, and you have to have a long-term political solution or diplomatic solution here. nothing has been laid out. if anything, you can make the argument that the sheer force with which he's gone intogaza, indiscriminate to a degree, has complicated the long-term political solution for israel. >> joe? >> david, i want to circle back to something we talked about a few weeks ago, about the end game here. israel in gaza is not an option. there is a reason israelis left in 2005. hamas in gaza is not an option. doesn't it seem the only option at one point, at one point, the only option is perhaps to have a united nations force with arab countries in charge? sunni arab countries running the

peacekeeping force. obviously, with the united states playing a very active role because, as you know and as i've heard, diplomats in the region say, well, we're not there unless the united states is fully invested and has our back. isn't that where we have to end up here? >> joe, that is exactly where president biden and secretary of state blinken would like this story to end. they've said so, biden in an op-ed in "the washington post," blinken in a speech in tokyo. that is the u.s. preferred course. the problem is, it requires, first, the defeat of hamas. that's something that we're increasingly queasy about because it involves such terrible loss of civilian palestinian life. the world just isn't comfortable watching that.

that's the first problem. the second problem is, obviously, who is going to go in and enforce, stabilize gaza after hamas? it's easy to say that our arab friends will do it, but, so far, they're saying, we don't want to ride in on the back of an israeli tank. we're not comfortable with that. we can get other countries, presumably, who have been helpful in u.n. peacekeeping missions, scandinavian countries, perhaps japan, others you can think of. joe, you're describing what everybody would like to see, but there's still a huge distance to getting there. that's precisely what, i think, people in the nsc are talking about right now this week. >> yeah. we're going to continue this conversation. >> well, mika, forgive me. >> no problem. >> slight delay here. let me say as we wrap this up, that's why it is so critical that, at some point, israel moves forward beyond the netanyahu era.

if this is to happen. everybody arnold the world knows that, in the middle east, they know that. we have to keep this in context. we talked about the first month being like the day after 9/11. obviously, no one rests there. but we're going to get to a stage where there's going to have to be a new leader in israel that allows us to look forward to that day. because, as david ignatius said, as a lot of brilliant foreign policy minds said at the beginning of this war, conduct this war with the day after the war ends in mind. we understand what happened in the phase right after the attacks, but it has come at a

heavy, heavy cost for israel around the region, and they need to move to the next phase at some point quickly. they have to move to the next phase. >> we're going to continue this conversation, of course. also, coming up, more on the news that broke late last night. former secretary of state henry kissinger dying at the age of 100 at his home in connecticut. he was national security adviser twice and adviser to many presidents and had a great impact on foreign policy and the world. we'll have more on his life and legacy ahead. also ahead, donald trump is doubling down on his calls to replace the affordable care act. we'll show you his new connects about obamacare and go over some of his other unpopular positions as he seeks a second term in the white house. we're back in 60 seconds. emergen-c crystals. the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup.

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secretary of state henry kiss en kissinger at the age of 100. lester holt has more on the figure who played a role in diplomacy for decades. >> nice to see i couldn't all. >> reporter: he was brilliant, controversial, and one of the most influential secretaries of state in american history. >> we made further progress. >> reporter: he served richard nixon, gerald ford, and consulted by presidents of both parties on international issues throughout his life. >> henry kissinger has been a friend of mine. >> reporter: nixon made him a national figure. together, they re-imagined u.s. foreign policy. detente with the soviet union. relations with china. shuttle diplomacy in the middle east. kissinger helped shape nixon's policy in vietnam and negotiated an end to the war. famously declaring success prematurely, just days before the 1972 election.

>> we believe that peace is at hand. >> reporter: he was awarded the nobel peace prize. >> nothing that has happened to me in public life has moved me more than this award. >> reporter: though his co-recipient, north vietnam's re recipient, declined honor. he was awarded the medal of freedom. he had pragmatic, big picture diplomacy, but some called him insecure, a war criminal for his role in bombing cambodia, and widening the war in vietnam. born in germany in 1923, kissinger's jewish family fled to america as hitler rose to power. he became a u.s. citizen, served in world war ii, and earned a phd at harvard, where he became

a professor. he caught the eye of richard nixon, who made him national security adviser, then secretary of state. the only person ever to hold both jobs simultaneously. >> there is no country in the world where it is conceivable that a man of my origins could be standing here next to the president of the united states. >> reporter: but their relationship was complicated. white house tapes reveal that kissinger sometimes enabled the worst in nixon. >> it was a very curious relationship because we were not personally very close. >> reporter: the night before he resigned in disgrace, nixon asked kissinger to kneel and pray with him. >> of course, it was a crushing event, but i think of that evening as an experience with dignity and it was very moving. >> reporter: kissinger was no faceless bureaucrat.

he was a world-renown celebrity. >> i love your foreign accent. >> reporter: and he loved the spotlight. he was even something of a pop culture icon. after leaving government, he opened his own consulting official, remaining active and sought after for decades. at 95, eulogizing john mccain's life, kissinger sounded a wistful note about his own. >> like most people of my age, i feel a longing for what is lost and cannot be restored. >> reporter: henry kissinger was a man of great accomplishment and controversy. but as he once told nbc's barbara walters, he had no regrets. >> if i had to do it over again, i would do it again substantially the same way. which may make we

unreconstructed, maybe one reason why i'm at peace with myself. >> nbc's lester holt reporting. mike barnicle joins us now. mike, you look at the scope of kissinger's influence. 12 presidents he advised formally or informally from jfk to joe biden. think about that. within that, as lester pointed out, there's a lot of stuff that a lot of people object to. some call him a war criminal for what happened in cambodia and laos, as well. important but mixedkissinger. >> brilliant and controversy. he shapd american policy throughout several presidents. one glaring error, henry kissinger, we heard him say, if he had everything to do all over again, he'd do it substantially the same way. from january 1969, when richard nixon was sworn in as president and henry kissinger was his national security adviser, and

later his secretary of state, from january of 1969 until 1974, over 20,000 american young people were killed in vietnam. they discussed the size of a table in paris a year and a half, and people were getting killed every day. it was outrageous. history doesn't lie. his legacy will be honored, but history ought to reflect the negative aspects, as well. >> andrea mitchell, you covered kissinger closely over the years. what about his legacy stands out to you? >> acknowledging what mike barnicle just said, i got to know him very well. just after his 100th birthday, he was at the council on foreign relations giving a talk on artificial intelligence. the fact that, until his very death, he was writing on a.i.,

and, of course, the trip to china this summer in july to see president xi jinping, he was always active and always curious. >> engaging. >> never stopped thinking and working. and creating, really. i do remember a number of years ago with the csis, the thinktank here in washington, it was one of his birthdays in the 90s. mika's dad, he was in the audience, and the rivalry that went back to harvard and columbia, different roles in public policy. it was two intellectual giants sparring, and they were teasing each other in a friendly but still -- >> relentlessly. >> you were there, mika, i think, in the audience. >> yeah. >> we were all watching this play out, you know, two men still vigorous intellectually, and it was just extraordinary, the amount of intellectual

firepower that he brought to it. his last book on china was really brilliant. so, you know, he did -- he never stopped, and i admired that as well as he was very sentimental and it was a great sense of humor and a charm, which, obviously, carried him through those nixon years, as well. and devoted to his wife, nancy. >> absolutely. >> you know, david ignatius, andrea was talking about, and you talked about kissinger as well as dr. brzezinski. it was fascinating looking at lester holt's package, just fascinating that you had henry kissinger, madeleine albright, and dr. brzezinski, all three of their families chased out of europe by the rise of adolph of hitler.

all three came to america just achieving towering heights in american foreign policy. >> good point. >> i do want to draw a distinction, though, not for purposes of legacy building or legacy smashing, but just draw some real distinctions to get more of an insight into who henry kissinger was. the contrast between kissen fwer and brzezinski. kissinger was a shape-shifter and could be what nixon wanted him to be, and often was, behind the scenes. if he was talking to hillary clinton or bill clinton, again, changed the iraq war. he supported the iraq war at the beginning and then moved in another direction. then, of course, he was -- jared

kushner talked to him constantly, the trump administration. he could move politically. he was a master tactician politically. dr. brzezinski was, well, dr. brzezinski. he told you what he thought, whether you liked it or not. he was extraordinarily blunt. but i will just say, and i will say, perhaps this is because i've studied dr. brzezinski's legacy, i think on the big question about the soviet union falling, i think, you know, and others have said this, kissinger was the pessimist and brzezinski was the optimist. brzezinski got that right. the big question of their time he got right. but kissinger, again, continued,

continued in public service on the sidelines for 50 years after he left the white house because, again, he just was very skilled at ingratiating himself with leaders. >> there was a part of henry kissinger, joe, that was a courtier. he loved being with the powerful. he loved advising them. he was good at it. people listened to what he had to say. people from my boss, catherine graham, to presidents over the years were attentive to everything kissinger said or wrote. often, it was very, very much focused. he was a man for all seasons. whatever the political moment was, henry kissinger had something useful and relevant to say about it. one striking point of comparison

with mika's dad, zbigniew brzezinski, is a rock. zbigniew brzezinski with another national security adviser were almost alone among foreign policy leaders in saying, "this doesn't make sense. this is a mistake for the united states." kissinger went along with it, supported it, as did most people in the foreign policy establishment. zbig didn't. scocroft didn't. kissinger is full of controversy. i've always thought, just as you were saying in setting up your piece, he was one of those great statesman who came out of europe in the second world war. he had a passion for stability. he believed that stability, in itself, was a prize that the united states as a superpower

should seek. that made him, in some ways, a moral. if stability is your primary goal, you're willing to tolerate a lot of unpleasantness, civilian death along the way, but, you know, no question, joe, that he is a man who shaped the world that we live in. >> wow. andrea mitchell, thank you for coming on this morning. i know you were busy actually talking about world affairs when this broke on stage last night. thank you for coming in early to talk about the legacy of henry kissinger. coming up, new economic numbers came out yesterday, and they were even better than first thought. so why is a fed official warning there might be another interest rate hike in the future? steve rattner is here with the charts to break down the economic picture. it's a confusing one. that's coming up next on "morning joe."

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♪♪ willie, you hear that? that's the sound of cash registers. the comcast commerce tree lit up. kids are going to be driven into a spending frenzy over this. and why not? our economy revisions for the third quarter, i mean, these are mbers you just don't really see these days. over 5% growth in the u.s. economy. 5.2% in the third quarter. again, comparing us to the rest of the world, that's pretty extraordinary. >> it is. remember, the number was eye-popping already, 4.9% when first announced.

the gdp for the third quarter revised up to 5.2% growth, a massive number. just one of the data points that continue, for the most part, to be positive about the american economy. at the same time, efforts by the federal reserve to tamp down inflation have prompted some warning signs on wall street. joining us now, former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, at the trademark southwest wall, ready with his charts. good morning. let's start with the big picture here. your first chart, that the economy is, in fact, getting better. >> sure, willie. first, you own that trademark, if i remember correctly. you coined the phrase. >> i turn it over to you, steve. >> i'm flattered. let's turn to the economy. we got as high as 9.1% at the peace of the post-pandemic buying frenzy, shall we call it. that is all the way down to 3.2%

in the cpi. this blue line is what we call core inflation, when you take out food and energy, which tend to be volatile. this is what the fed looks at when it is trying to get to its 2% line down here. we still have a ways to go. i would say very few economists expect this to come down as far and as fast as it has. that means, obviously, good news for consumers in terms of what the real spending power is. you've had wage growth throughout this period, and actually accelerated due to the low unemployment rate and the demand for workers. it's above 4%. after inflation, americans have been negative for a while. the good news is now they're positive. they may not feel it, may not believe it, may not watch "morning joe" to know it, but the fact is, their incomes after inflation are actually now in positive territory for the first time after the pandemic. >> couple things, steve. first of all, i'd love for you to talk about our gdp number of

over 5%. you have britain, i think, stuck around 1.5%, 1.6%. france even lower. germany basically, like, 0.2%. talk about that and when more americans feel that. also talk about how this inflation tamping down is great news, but it's sort of a lagging indicator because americans are still looking at items that, when they go to the grocery store, when they go to the gas station, when they try to rent a home or buy a home, it's still about 20% higher post covid. >> yeah, joe, that's a good point. look, you and i talked a lot about why americans are so grumpy given that you have 5% growth. i think inflation plays, by far, the biggest role in that. americans still see higher prices at the grocery store. something like 70% of americans today were not of voting age the

last time we hit inflation over 4% 30 years ago. most americans haven't seen it and don't know how to process it. to your point, a couple of things. first of all, the good news on gdp yesterday adds to the probability of us having a soft landing. we thought it was perhaps going to be necessary to have a recession in order to get that inflation down to 2%. this is goldman sachs' numbers, but you can see they went from a 35% probability of a recession in the next 12 months all the way down to a 15% probability of a recession the next 12 months. the good news on inflation may mean that the fed can also start cutting interest rates, which is what the market is expecting now. a 1 percentage cut in interest rates next year. we'll see if it materializes. to your other point, you're right, we are, by far, the best house in what is a tough neighborhood of the g7, the developed countries, if you will. our two-year growth rate, you know, with some ups and downs, obviously, 1.8%. nothing to be wildly excited

about, but compared to our friends and neighbors and allies, you can see what happens. japan, 1.5%. they're coming out of a long period of economic stagnation. our northern neighbor, 1.4%. europe is a mess. france at 1.1%. italy at 0.7%. the uk, 0.5%. germany, which has the problem of a war as well as the fact they are highly dependent on exports to china, which is obviously not going so well, barely growing at all. so you have to put us in perspective. in the context of a somewhat difficult period for the world, we are, by far, doing the best. >> as you say, things moving in the right direction. but your third chart shows there are warning signs. this gdp number driven, in part, by consumer spending, but it could pull back a little bit. >> one of the problems with economic statistics are that are backward looking. the third quarter gdp number ends on september 30th. now we're into november and the

christmas season and so forth. we'll see how the numbers unfold. history will tell you you don't often known when you're having a rough spot until after it's over. one thing that is of concern, as we talked about before, during the pandemic, consumers amass something like $2 trillion of what we call excess savings, money they couldn't spend when they were locked down, plus government stimulus payments and other things. part of what is fueling that 5% and all the other good numbers we've seen has been that they have been spending this money. they've spent it down, but most estimates now have it being pretty close to zero. at some point, they're going to have to reckon with that. we'll see what that does to their ability to spend, as well as, of course, their happiness about their economy and their approval rate of the president. there are some other worrisome signs out there. for example, credit card delinquencies. interest rates are over 20% at the moment as a consequence of the fed's policy and putting a lot of this together, more people are defaulting. it's a small number, 3%, on

their credit cards. you see a similar phenomenon with auto loans, particularly by lower income americans. the defaults there moved up a bit. there are things to worry about, but we do have the strongest economy in the developed world. we shouldn't forget that. >> yeah. without a doubt. any country in the world would love to trade our position with theirs. at the same time, again, we've had a rough run post covid with inflation, but these numbers, steve, look positive. certainly look like, again, leading indicators of how americans are going to be feeling, most likely in a few months. "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, as always, thank you so much. the southwest wall looking more and more -- look at that, willie, it's massive, the

southwest wall. it's our own green monster. thank you, steve. sam stein, we look in this -- i say we. i'll talk about me and people like me. we'll look at polls, and they will see that young people are more skeptical toward joe biden right now than they'd expect, and it's been that way for a while. truthfully, it was that way before the war broke out. i remember talking to john della volpe going, these numbers can't be right. we look for an easy explanation. it must be israel. it must be this. well, talk about how -- because you're not ancient like most of us, talk about how this economy is actually harder for younger americans under, say, 40, who

may still not be able to accord their first home, who still may be struggling with rent, who, you know, are making -- i saw a "times" story about a guy moving from california to northwest florida because he said, i've got a six-figure salary. you know, this would make me rich where i come from. he said, i can't even afford a house. i can't afford to live. i have to move back home. talk about how the cost of living, post-covid inflation, even though the economy is cooking, is not being felt by a lot of young americans, and this may be contributing to those poll numbers. >> thank you for coming to me as the young person. you used to make fun of me for being so young, a prep school kid or whatever it was, and i haven't had those jokes in a while. >> you're not that young

anymore. >> look, this is complicated because there are different variables that go into the perceptions of biden, especially by young voters. if you look at international polls, you know, and this gets to steve's point, i suppose, biden, relative to other governing bodies and political leaders, is doing well. doesn't mean he is doing great. >> right. >> other governing bodies are struggling similarly in this current post pandemic economy. i think for young voters, though, it is interesting. you come out, you see mortgage interest rates really high, relative to where i got my 30-year fix, thank god. but, you know, i also go back to the obama years, right? the great recession. when you graduated in 2012, you probably weren't getting a job. it was tough. there were reports of kids staying in their parents' homes because simply the economy was not cooking.

you couldn't find work. that's not the case nowadays. you can find a job. it might not be a great job. >> right. >> what is it that is hurting biden with young voters? yes, of course, the cost of goods. the cost of groceries, specifically. the cost of gas. things that are very tangible that you see every day, that's tough. but it's a stew of things. it's the perception that he is old. it's the perception he's too establishment oriented. there are social issues, the idea he didn't get the work done on student loans, voting rights are still under threat. it's a stew of things and difficult for the white house. they've dialed back on the sales, but there's no one lever, no one button they can push that will fix this. it may be that trump's ascension is what is the trick. >> right now, we've seen the trump campaign try to really

court youth voters. i don't think there is much success in that. again, if the idea is, even if these young voters aren't going to turn out for trump, whatever the reason is, if they stay home and don't vote for joe biden, that is the issue. >> youth vote correspondent sam stein. >> promotion. >> thank you very much. coming up -- >> psychological promotion, thank you. >> there ya go. >> coming up, we'll be joined by the father of an american mother of three who was released yesterday by hamas after more than 50 days as a hostage. "morning joe" is coming right back. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business.

my predecessor wants to get rid of the affordable care act. over 40 million americans today get their health insurance through the affordable care act. his plan is to throw them off that plan. that'd mean the number of uninsured african-americans would go up by 20%. latinos by 15%. folks, this is not your father's

republican party. >> no, it is not. it is definitely not our fathers' republican party. president biden speaking yesterday in colorado. we're going to have more on the president's comments and donald trump's vendetta against a policy that is popular with millions of americans. including republicans. >> mika, including republicans. >> yeah. >> mika, "the wall street journal" editorial page, "biden, trump, and obamacare." willie, it is interesting. we say on this show all the time, where are the conservatives, the republicans warning the base about what is coming? you can look and see where they are. the koch network coming out, not coca-cola but the koch brothers coming out for nikki haley. jamie dimon telling anybody who will listen, whether you're a democrat or republican, vote for

nikki haley in the primary. do whatever you can. "the wall street journal" editorial page really always sort of the foundation, the bedrock of american conservatism, seemingly warning their readers every day of the same thing we say, stop putting your hand on the hot stove. bad things happen. today, a page that has never been particularly kind to the affordable care act says, "there are other ideas to reform health care, but they require doing some homework and honing a message. if republicans have nothing more to say than mr. trump does, they're better off ducking the subject, lest they lead with their chin. you know, "the wall street journal" says here, though a bit

more negative about the affordable care act than others of us around the table, they say, maybe the affordable care act has a lot of problems. maybe there is health care insurance. but republicans have done nothing. they've provided no alternative. basically, if you can't say something good, don't say anything at all. i find it fascinating. again, from "the wall street journal" editorial page, basically saying, republicans, just shut up about this unless, for the first time in 20 years, you provide an alternative health care reform package. >> well, as is often the case, donald trump popped off about something, in this case about obamacare, heard the backlash, realized it could be a problem for him, attempted briefly to say, "what i meant was we're going to repeal it and replace it with something better." there's a problem. when he became president in january 2017, he was president.

republicans controlled for two few years both houses of congress and did absolutely nothing to repeal or replace. john mccain, remember, had that decisive vote. he's now leaned into the harsh take on it, forgive the quote, but he said obamacare, quote, sucks, so that'll be used in biden ads, as well. jonathan lemire and others can tell you, the white house feels a gift fell into their lap. they can use this along with abortion, along with election denialism in their arsenal against donald trump if, as expected, he becomes the nominee. there's the truth social post, quote, obamacare sucks, which will be news to millions of people who enjoy that in the country. >> yeah. the top story this hour, israel and hamas have agreed to extend their pause. official says the two sides had been disagreeing on which hostages would be released next. before the truce was extended,

hamas freed 16 people, including israeli-american liat beinin. in response, israel released 30 palestinian prisoners. richard engel has the very latest. >> reporter: the truce between hamas and israel is now entering a very difficult phase and could be breaking down. there had been an expectation last night and this morning that there would be an possibly a two-day extension, maybe more. in the 11th hour, israel and hamas only agreed to a one-day extension. today is the last day of the truce between the two sides. another hostage release is expected to come today. but this almost broke down overnight. hamas initially put forward a list saying it was going to release seven hostages and then hand over the body of three of the hostages who were killed, it says by israeli air strikes. israel rejected that. now, when you talk to israeli officials and you speak to hamas

and hamas is telling its people to be ready for the military campaign to begin, it does feel that tension is resuming, and we could be once again going into a military phase of this conflict where israel renews its campaign against the gaza strip to destroy and dislodge hamas from power. there will be costs if israel does resume its campaign. costs for gaza, obviously, where the health ministry, which is run by hamas, says around 15,000 people have already been killed. and costs for israel, public relations cost. israel has faced an enormous international backlash because of its military campaign against gaza, because of all the civilians that have been killed. and a backlash within the country because if it begins this military campaign, it could slow down or even stop the hostage exchange program, the postage releases being swapped for palestinian prisoners.

but israel wants to keep pressure on hamas and is not satisfied with the pace of the releases so far, not satisfied with hamas' answers about how many hostages it has, how many are alive, how many are actually in hamas' custody. we will see what happens. secretary blinken is here trying to encourage dialogue, extend the truce, trying to convince israel if it does resume its military campaign to carry it out in a more targeted way. >> nbc's richard engel reporting from jerusalem. joining the conversation here in washington, we have staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser. former cia officer marc polymeropoulos, an msnbc national security and intelligence analyst. jonathan lemire, david ignatius, and mike barnicle are still with us, as well. mark, let's talk about the way forward here. what's the latest you've heard? also, just kind of trying to

look ahead at the psychological whiplash around the world, moving from releasing hostages back to more killing. does israel have a way forward that the administration could get behind? >> i think there's a couple things that are happening now. i think israel, in fact, is getting tired of this kind of day-to-day extension. if you take a look at a poll that was done on friday by the israel democracy institute, 90% of israelis want hostages to be released, but they also want to see hamas dismantled. there is incredible resolve there. you know, i think at some point, the idf and the arguments from the israeli national security establishment are that this truce, this cease-fire, the more it lasts, the more hamas reconstitutes. i think we're at a point now, israel has to make a decision. the question is, one, when they resume the offensive, and, number two, the tactics they use. as you know, they're under incredible pressure from the administration. >> absolutely.

joe? >> well, mark, what tactics do you think they should use? you've been there. you've worked with israelis. you've worked with palestinians. you know the area. you know the complexities. it seems to me we're talking about, at last hour, any way israel turns, there are bad options. if they continue the cease-fire, the terrorists that slaughtered their children and raped their women reconstitute, get more powerful, you know, and leads to more israeli deaths. obviously, that's what israelis and all of us want, more hostages released. but when that ceases, the fighting begins again. even the hostage releases, we saw "the new york times" story about how hamas is, you know, gaining heroic sttus for the release of the palestinian prisoners. what should israel do given your past experiences there? >> well, i think they're going to resume offensive operations.

clearly, the biden administration, you know, with the big hug, has brought them in close, is providing advice to perhaps take a more measured approach that could be more special operations forces, more targeted strikes from drones, but they're doing to have to go back in. joe, you mentioned the hostages. incredible moments, i think, over the last several days. there is an 85-year-old hostage. when she was released, she actually said that when she encountered the head of hamas, yahya sinwar, she told him, shame on you for taking hostages. similarly, yesterday, there was an incredible picture that kind of went viral, not only in israel but throughout the world, of a hostage as she was walking out and hamas was trying to embrace here for propaganda purposes, and she said, "back off. i'm going to walk out of here with my head held high." this just steals israel's resolve, so i think they are going to continue. there will be a degree of, you know, discussion with the united states, but there is unity in a country, israel, where there is not unity about anything else.

on this issue, their going to have to resume, and i think it'll be sooner rather than later. >> make no mistake, we, of course, talk here in the safety of, you know, our studios, about what israel should and shouldn't do. make no mistake, the overwhelming majority of israelis want this war to continue. they understand that hamas must be destroyed. you know, the equivalent of 40,000, 50,000 israelis, equivalent of 40,000, 50,000 israels were killed if you compare it to the united states. you know, suggesting that they just call a cease-fire, a permanent truce with a group of people that, you know, it'd be like the united nations telling us that we should just strike peace with osama bin laden in november of 2001. it's not going to happen.

that said, david ignatius, again, no easy choices for israel. i'm just curious, you wrote about qatar and the unique role that qatar has been playing throughout this entire process. based on your contacts there, based on your contacts in israel and, obviously, inside the white house, where do we go from here? are there more hostages to be released in the next couple days? does qatar believe this temporary cease-fire can be continued? >> joe, in doha, qatar, the capital, on tuesday, cia director bill burns met with the director of the israeli mossad and the qatari prime minister, who has been the principal mediator, and they discussed a process by which all of the

remaining hostages, including the israeli military men and women, might be released. i was told that there was agreement in principle on doing that. the problem is that the details are extremely difficult and the price that each freed israeli would commend in terms of palestinian prisoners to be released, who those people would be, all those things have yet to be worked out. israel has a dilemma. they want all their people back home, their soldiers back home passionately, but they don't want a situation in which hamas delays this process and the pause would extend to a very lengthy period in which this was done. they don't want that to last forever. i was told ten days ago that israel would like to return to high-intensity conflict, including in north gaza where

there's some operations that they have not yet completed. even more in southern gaza, that'll bring back images of the destruction of palestinian civilians that have been extremely damaging for israel and the united states, too. >> right. >> for that reason, the biden administration is very worried of that. i think that, mark, i'd be curious about your view on this. the biden administration wants this to slow down and be less damaging. i think they'd probably like the hostage release process that bill burns, boss of your former agency, is working so hard to press forward. do you think they'll try to keep the hostage process going, if nothing else for optics reasons, for a while longer? >> david, i think it would go forward if it is feasible. there is a question, even last night, if hamas could get the number of hostages together that

israel wanted back. at one point last night, i think it was only seven or eight. ultimately, it is a question of, can hamas deliver? i think israel will keep going with this. again, it's the social pack that israel made with itscitizens. we're going to get you back. at some point, hamas won't be able to do what israel demands, and that is where the inflection point starts. >> we're hearing from some of the hostages have endured. >> right. >> if they cannot provide all of the hostages, that story will start pervading. susan, what do you think the biggest challenge, the complications are moving forward? >> david's point is exactly right. once you resume operations, first of all, you're going to be looking at these dramatic images of attacks, essentially, on enormous numbers of palestinians, sadly. >> destruction, agony. >> it's because of the intertwining of these populations.

israel's problem, from the very beginning, benjamin netanyahu said the goal was the eradication of hamas. it wasn't sufficient merely to get these hostages back but to, you know, essentially stop hamas from an entity controlling gaza and to eliminate its military command. they haven't achieved the goal yet or any version they can come back to their people and say, there's a victory here. so i think that dictates at some point there will be a resumption of military action. again, from day one, you saw, i think, american military experts correctly saying, whoa, the problem here is they have a maximalist goal that is going to be very, very hard to achieve militarily, the elimination of hamas. >> it is going to be costly on so many levels. former cia officer marc polymeropoulos, thank you for your insights thank you. as donald trump, the former president, looks to win back the

white house next year, he continues to promote and latch onto positions that are overall fairly unpopular with the american people. after posting on social media earlier this week, he was, quote, seriously looking at alternatives to obamacare. trump doubled down last night, writing, quote, i want to replace it with much betr health care. obamacare sucks. that's a candidate for ya. polling shows most americans disagree with him on that. in may, the kaiser foundation found 59% of americans view the affordable care act favorably. since the bill was signed into law, all but ten states have expanded medicaid coverage, something made possible by the aca. and it is not just health care on which trump seems to be out of step with the views of most americans, although voters have repeatedly rejected election denying candidates who claim the 2020 election was stolen from the former president.

he continues to push the big lion line and at his rallies. >> the radical left democrats rigged the presidential election of 2020. we're not going to allow them to rig the presidential election of 2024. we're not going to allow it. >> turns out, people don't like that. they also don't like insurrections, it was found in some midterms. even though nationwide support, there's another one, for abortion access is at 55%. one of the highest levels on record. though the issue has been undefeated at the ballot box since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, trump has repeatedly bragged that he is the one who got the landmark decision reversed. >> president trump is going to make a determination what he thinks is great for the country and what is fair for the country. the fact that i was able to

terminate roe v. wade after 50 years of trying, they worked for 50 years, never seen anything like it, and i was honored to have done it. well, i did something nobody thought was possible. i got rid of roe v. wade. by doing that, it put pro lifers in a very strong negotiating position. >> nobody did a job like i did, including roe v. wade, bringing it back to the states. and what i did by killing roe v. wade, which everyone said was impossible. >> mike barnicle, let's get the quotes here. "i got rid of roe v. wade." "i terminated roe v. wade." >> check. >> "i was the one that was successful in killing roe v. wade." you know, when -- around

congress, we'd talk about, let's get out there. this is a 60/40 issue. a 70/30 issue. 80/20 issue. meaning positive and negative. here, he's on the wrong side of every one of these issues. roe v. wade, 70% of americans didn't want it overturned. he is running around bragging about killing roe v. wade, terminating roe v. wade, getting rid of roe v. wade. it's the same thing with the affordable care act. "the wall street journal" editorial page again saying republicans, if they don't have a better plan, they should just keep their mouths shut because they're going to lose at the ballot box if they do this. and the election denying speaks for itself. think of the candidates we saw packages about and read articles about that were so dangerous because they wanted to be secretaries of state and of individual states. they were election deniers. all the significant ones lost.

he's on the wrong side of every single issue. and it's hard to imagine going through 2024 without seeing those clips thousands and thousands of times. those clips are going to push people away from donald trump. keep republicans at home, keep individuals at home that would normally vote for him. >> you know, joe, most people watching this realize that whatever goal they might have in life, whatever goals they might have for their children, you don't put your car in reverse to get to the goal. you go forward. you know, it's easy to look through a front windshield than the rear-view mirror. that's what donald trump is doing nearly every day. he is looking in the rear-view mirror, talking about the 2020 election that was stolen from him. he is talking about, and large elements of his party are talking about taking things from people. the right to choose.

obamacare because he doesn't like the word "obama" in care. all of those things are going to be to his detriment eventually. people want to know where we are going as a country. and where candidates want to take us as candidates. what are you going to do in the future about my paycheck, about my children's education, from grammar school up through college? where are we going? what would you do about the middle east situation going forward? not 20 years ago, not four years ago. what are we going? they can't answer that simple question. >> susan, the biden white house has been surprised by their luck with the three things there. they didn't think they'd get the gift of the guy they're probably going to run against next year trashing obamacare, which is popular, as we've laid out, of taking credit for getting rid of re versus wade, which we've seen for a couple years now at

the ballot box has been a loser for reasons. also, the clip we showed about him talking about elections stolen was on november 18th, 2023. sounded like something from 2020. he's still talking about pardoning the people who attacked police officers on january 6th. he is leaning into these issues which may feel good to him in his ecochamber at his rallies, on the patio of mar-a-lago when talking to members, but he's trying to win a national election. >> it is an excellent point. i keep thinking about donald trump's health care plan, which is always two weeks away, right? >> two weeks, in two weeks. >> it's stuck with the infrastructure bill. they're working on it in the same office. donald trump is not disciplined. he wants to talk about what he wants to talk about. he believes he is going to improvise and riff on what he wants to riff on. for the biden white house, this is good news, considering every minute he is talking about repealing obamacare, he's not

talking about high prices, not talking about inflation. he's not talking about the economy. he's not talking about the border, which is one of his other obsessions that does resonate with many americans. i have to say, though, when i listen to all this long list of issues that, you know, trump is playing right into democrats' hands on, it is shocking to remember, given all of that, how very close this race is. you know, even the white house understands, at best, this is a dead even heat between two candidates. it is kind of astonishing when you look at this set of issues. and it's donald trump, right? >> yeah. there are some new national polls this week that show biden up a couple points. these come after polls that show trump up a couple points. it's within the margin of error. it is very, very close, to susan's point, and these are gifts. what willie said earlier, the biden campaign operatives are sending around messages, immediately tweeting about this. they feel there is a real,

strong contrast here and picked that up in the last few weeks. instead of just selling a positive message, including bidenomics which didn't resonate, and they're now moving away from using that word, at least in the president's speeches, they are now really suggesting that it's the choice between what we have now and the extremism of donald trump. do you want to revision that? we shouldn't gloss over trump again suggesting the next election can't be conducted freely or fairly. he did it in 2016. during that summer, that was the birth of the big lie. he didn't act upon it because he defeated hillary clinton in the electoral college. we know what happened january 6th. he's already laying the groundwork again. >> the platform is the poisoning of the american mind. david. >> i'll share something i wrote in a column punished this morning. in the biden/xi summit in san francisco earlier this month, in the private conversations, i'm told biden turned to xi and

said, "don't believe the polls. you'll be talking to me in five years." >> i've learned to believe him, too. "the new yorker"'s susan glasser, thank you for coming on this morning. ahead on "morning joe," the republican-led house subcommittee investigating the so-called weaponization of the federal government will hold a hearing later this morning, examining what it calls the government's involvement in social media censorship. the ranking democrat on the panel, democrat stacey plaskett of the u.s. virgin islands will join us for a preview. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ht back. gift the iphone 15 pro with titanium. boost infinite. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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leaving the x platform over his anti-semitic posts. to weeks ago, musk amplified a post promoting an anti-semitic conspiracy theory, accusing jews of pushing hatred against whites. the theory is a belief of the gunman in the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh. major aadvertisers, including disney and ibm, suspended campaigns on x because of it. musk apologized for the tweet at the deal book summit in new york, but then andrew pressed him on the response from top corporations. >> this had been said online. there was all the criticism. there was advertisers leaving. we talked about -- >> i hope they stop. >> you hope? >> don't advertise. >> you don't want them to advertise? >> no. >> what do you mean? >> if somebody is going to try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with

money, go [ bleep ] yourself. >> but -- >> go [ bleep ] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> okay. well, that seemed a little counterproductive to getting advertising dollars and the job that he has. andrew ross sorkin will join us in the fourth hour with more on that interview. joining us now, ranking member of the house select committee on the weaponization of the federal government, stacey plaskett, who represents the u.s. virgin islands. today, the committee is set to hold another hearing on what's known as the twitter files, which republicans site as evidence that the social media site was censoring right-wing voices under its old ownership. good to have you on the set.

>> speaking of elon musk, right? >> what do we expect to see today at the hearing? >> what is so disappointing is that this is a hearing that we've already had, and they are bringing the same witnesses. they're doing that because they have no other information. they've done 29 closed door interviews of individuals who have said there is no conspiracy. that there was no -- and this is not just government officials, this is also individuals at the social media platforms who have been interviewed behind closed doors. so what does my good chairman, jim jordan, do? he brings out the witnesses that he believes are going to speak on his behalf. but us democrats have decided we're not going to continue playing this game with them. when we have a weaponization hearing, we are going to talk about the true weaponization of the federal government. this time, we are going to have olivia troye who will talk about the weaponization during the trump administration. what do we expect in the next

one? each time we have a hearing, us democrats are going to talk about the true weaponization of the federal government and bring in former trump officials to talk about what the former president would do in a new administration. >> using government power, and amplified on elon musk's twitter, we had news this week that hunter biden offered to testify in an open setting, in front of the committee. >> sure. >> only to be told no by james comer. it must be done by hind closed doors, which to many seems like a bad faith effort here. give us your reaction here. what are democrats saying about the republican colleagues on this. >> i think it is rich that the republicans are talking about, no, this is the trues and this is the process. they've blown up the process. they change if rul the rules wh doesn't fit their mandate.

if there is this interview behind closed doors, they're going to take pieces out, misconstrue what was said. they are going to hide a lot of the evidence. >> they've maligned him. they've acted like children on the house floor. >> exactly. >> making fun like school children. bullying someone. who in the world in hunter biden's position would testify behind closed doors with a bunch of people who literally make things up as they go along? >> well, we know that the last time they had a hearing, brought their own witnesses before them, they don't have evidence of a high crime or misdemeanor by president joe biden. that is the person they're trying to impeach. hunter biden is not an elected official. he is not an elected official. unlike president trump, he is not working in his father's administration. >> right. >> and the allegations that they have, that they are trying to

fulfill, the president wasn't even the vice president during the time it happened. so there is no there there. they're trying to continue to drum up something, rather than working on the real issues americans are concerned with. >> stacey, i'm curious, as the republicans pursue these tactics, whether you sense a growing fear on the republicans' part that they're going to lose the house next year. the american people are getting fed up with the time wasting, the inability to make the house process work. to you sense that from your american colleagues? >> i sense chaos on their part. whether or not they're concerned with losing the house or not, i think they're more concerned with burning down the house than they are with losing the house. really, it's frightening. there are, of course, members, colleagues who will take you to the side and be, like, what you're doing to try to stop what's happening on weaponization is correct.

keep on doing it. that's their own colleagues telling me that in the corridors, on the floor privately. they're concerned that they are not getting done anything demonstrable that they're going to be able to show. think about what democrats did in the last congress. the first six months we got through the infrastructure plan, the american rescue plan, the chips act, bringing down insulin. what have they accomplished with having control of the house? absolutely nothing. >> democratic delegate stacey thank you for coming in. >> happy holidayholidays. the israeli-american mother of three, liat beinin, and her husband were abducted during the hamas terrorist attack of october 7th.

her husband remains held hostage by hamas, and liat's father, yehuda, joins us from outside of tel-aviv. thank you for being with us this morning. we're so happy to hear your daughter is home safely. i know you've had a chance to speak with her. what can you tell us about her condition today? >> first of all, thank you for having me. i'm elated to report her physical condition appeals to be pretty good considering the ordeal she went through. unfortunately, that has not always been the case with other hostages released lately. of course, we're very thankful. >> mr. beinin, has she been able to share with you yet -- i understand you want to give her the space and time she needs over what she went through -- in the last 50 days or so? >> first of all, she is in pretty good spirits. we met her -- we, the family,

that met her included her three children, of course, my wife and i. her sister flew in from oregon. as well as her husband's mother and brother. there were a substantial group of people who met her, and it was very emotional, very exciting. it was great. on the other hand, we are reminded that he is still a hostage in gaza, of great consternation. and it is difficult to deal with, the two emotions at the same time, the a challenge. >> you and your wife have been part of a club nobody wants to belong to. a parent of a child kidnapped and being held hostage.

can you tell us, can you recreate, what would you do with your lives each and every day that you knew your daughter was being held hostage? how did you occupy yourself? how did you continue to go on? >> first of all, they're members of kibbutz near oz who were eventually evacuated to a hotel. my wife and i were there for a good part of the time, but mostly my wife, actually. i'd done two trips to the states to meet with senators and congressmen and other administration officials, trying to keep this story in the limelight. i believe we succeeded in doing that. so running back and forth between israel and the states, running around washington is a

labor of love, something that is required to be done in order to work with politicians and administration officials, in trying to come to a resolution on this hostage crisis. specifically for my daughter, but as far as president biden was concerned,interested in all our interests. i've been busy. >> yeah. our understanding is you spoke with the president. did you speak with president biden? if you did so, please tell us what he had to say and what your feelings were and are about him and the role of the united states government. >> we spoke with president biden twice. the first time was the first friday after the attack. in that discussion, the president laid out -- one

second. thank you. sorry. you know, we are in a hospital, actually. >> yes. >> anyway, the first discussion we had with the president, the president expressed his -- it is hard to say how he perceived the attack on israel. the depth of the deprdepravity, horrific nature of the attack. he expressed his solidarity with the hostages taken to gaza. he expressed his desire to release all the hostages which was the number one priority of his administration. he would also explain that, from

his point of view, the attack on israel was also an attack on the united states. being that as it may, he saw the attack as an inflection point in history and said clearly, that what was in the middle east is not what will be. then the president spoke of his political goals of following hostilities that caused the group to engage in negotiations for a two-state solution, to implement that solution. which is fine. the second time we spoke with the president, it was to greet us upon the transfer of our daughter from hamas to egyptian hands. again, he expressed his

heartfelt feelings about having a daughter as a hostage. he clearly identifies with our predicament. together with that, he also mentioned that our work is still not finished. we have to secure aviv's release. he wants to use the tools at his disposal to get the release of the hostages. >> the joy around the release of liat is tempered by the fact aviv is still being held hostage. >> was there any information? >> no. >> fair enough.

yehuda beinin, we're glad iat was released and hope for aviv. coming up, angus king aims to reduce gun violence while also protecting gun rights. we'll explain that next on "morning joe." know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. the promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right

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48 past the hour. it's been a month since the mass shooting at a bowling alley and restaurant in lewiston, maine, that left 18 people dead. a staggering number that only begins to show the magnitude of america's gun problem. the tragedy is one of more than 615 mass shootings in the u.s. this year. gun violence has killed more than 39,000 americans so far in 2023. a number of deaths that far outpaced the rest of the world. day, to fight this epidemic, four senators are introduing

new legislation. they're trying again. the gas operated semiautomatic firearms exclusion, or gosafe act. one of the senators, angus king, of maine, joining us. great to have you, to see you. this is an important issue. tell us more about it, and is it going to happen? >> well, the people that are sponsoring it, it is significant, of our four principal sponsors, three never sponsored an assault bill before. >> okay. >> we're taking a leap here and doing something we think is absolutely necessary and will work. what we're focusing on is the way the gun operates rather than what it looks the manufacturers can modify the looks and then they escape the ban. so what we're focusing on is the high-capacity magazine. >> right. >> this is the business end of these things. that's what makes them so

dangerous is when the shooter can keep shooting. so our bill says you have to have a fixed magazine in the gun, ten bullets maximum. no -- no detachable magazine. >> right. >> the shooter in lewiston had two magazines duct taped together so when one ran out, he could just flip it over and plug it in. that's what we're going after, and there are some other parts of it too, but the fundamental is to really get at this -- these high-capacity magazines on these guns that make them so dangerous because when you have to stop to reload -- >> right. >> -- that's when you can intervene in the shooting. >> what's the argument to gun owners who want their rights protected and would argue that they should have a right to have this weapon? >> the best argument is justice scalia who was really a pro-gun conservative justice, and he made the point that the second amendment is not absolute, like the firstlimitations, and he

said it doesn't mean you can use any gun whatsoever, in any place whatsoever under any circumstances. this is what's historically consistent with 100 years ago, almost 100 years ago, machine guns have been heavily regulated, essentially banned, and sawed off shotguns. why? because they're especially dangerous. this is exactly the same pattern that we're going after to say, look. these fit into this category of especially dangerous. we're not taking guns away from anybody, but we're saying you can't manufacture new ones with these detachable magazines. >> okay. >> senator, obviously our thoughts are with those in lewiston and maine, and we want to turn now to another matter. the house of representatives is trying to grapple with the supplemental the white house wanted which is the israel funding, ukraine, border security, and funding for the indo-pacific region. the senate has been watching this from a distance. give us an update to where you

stand, and how this can get done before the winter break to send funding to israel and ukraine. >> well, the expectation is we're going to get to the supplemental next week. that's the -- that's the plan. now the wrinkle in the senate is that the republicans are saying we won't do ukraine without border security. so there are some pretty intense discussions going on principally between chris murphy of connecticut and james langford of oklahoma on border security, not immigration reform, but the narrow issue of border security. i'm hopeful that we can get there because there really is consensus that we do need to tighten up border security at the southern border. so that's the discussion in the senate. now i can't predict what the house will do. here's the thing though. if the bill goes to the floor of the house, it will have the votes. the question is whether the speaker will bring -- bring the supplemental to the floor because i think between republicans and democrats in the house, there's a clear majority

in favor of funding both of these priorities, and by the way, ukraine would be a colossal, historic mistake if we walked away from ukraine. we would be seeing the ramifications of that for generations. >> absolutely. >> so that's the -- that's the thing that i think we're all focused on. there's consensus on the israel aid, although as you know, there are discussions going on about should there be some conditions, limitations, reporting requirements. there are already reporting reporting requirements and limitations in u.s. law. title 22 and others, so that's a discussion that's going to on. the administration is working very diligently with the israelis to -- to have them be more -- i hate to use the word surgical, but more careful in their campaign against hamas. so i'm mildly optimistic, but

you can never bet on what the -- >> right. >> -- what congress will do in particularly the house these days. >> for sure. >> senator, you follow foreign policy wells anybody in the senate. i'm just curious whether you think israel's fundamental goal in the gaza war, the destruction of hamas as a political force, is achievable, and whether that's still something that you and most senators support. >> well, i think -- i'm really glad that you started that way because what's being lost in all the scenes of bombing and those kinds of things is how bad hamas is, and they don't care about the palestinian people. some of their leaders have actually said that. we're not worried about water or economic development. we want to destroy israel, and they are -- they are, in fact, putting their military infrastructure in civilian situations just to bait the israelis into attacking, and by the way, that in itself is a war

crime, putting your military infrastructure in a civilian structure. the question you've said is, is it achievable to destroy hamas? i think that depends on what your definition of destroy is. are they going to be able to kill every single or arrest or imprison every single hamas fighter of 20,000, 30,000 people? probably not. can they dismantle the leadership and the infrastructure? i think that is possible, but doing it in such a way as to not continuously inflame the non-hamas palestinians, and i think they could do a lot better job of getting humanitarian aid in, open the border in israel, not just the one down in egypt, and also control the violence of the settlers in the west bank. that worries me a great deal that there have been 200 or 300 palestinians killed by settlers in the west bank. my fear is spreading this to

another front, and then of course, there's hezbollah waiting in the wings on the north. so israel's got a very tough task to try to eliminate hamas effectively while at the same time not spreading the conflict, and also inflaming the arab streak to make it impossible for people like jordan and the gulf states to continue -- to have normal relations. >> angus king of maine, thank you very much. it's great to see you. >> great to see you. still ahead, the latest reporting on the israel/hamas war as hostages are set to be released today. plus, "new york times" columnist david brooks will join us with his timely new piece on, quote, staying humane in inhumane times. also ahead, standup comedy megastar sebastian maniscalco will be a guest on his

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good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, november 30th. we have a lot to get to this morning, including the latest on the temporary truce in gaza. israel and hamas agreed to extend it one more day, but there are signs those talks are becoming more contentious. we'll get a live report from jerusalem in just a moment. also ahead, president joe biden was on the road yesterday pushing his message on the economy, jobs, and the contrast between his administration and former president trump, but he's dropped a key phrase from his speeches. we'll tell you what it is, and why he may not be using it anymore. it comes as donald trump continues to rail against a policy that is popular with many

americans. plus, we'll take a look at the life and legacy of former secretary of state, henry kissinger who passed away yesterday at the age of 100. along with joe, willie, and me, we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius, sam stein from politico, and nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> let's get to our top story. israel and hamas have agreed to extend the pause in fighting by another day. the two sides struck the deal overnight just minutes before the truce was set to expire. this as they had last-minute agreements over which hostages ould be freed. in a statement, prime minister benjamin netanyahu explained the israeli government gave hamas a deadline to provide a list of women and children who would be released next, warning if that does not happen, the fighting will resume. netanyahu says that deadline was

then met. officials say the terms of this extended pause are the same as before, in which hamas was release ten hostages in exchange for israel freeing 30 palestinian prisoners. negotiators had been hoping to get an even longer pause in the fighting as the humanitarian crisis in gaza is worsening. before the pause was extended, hostages were released including one american. it included ten israelis, four thai nationals and four russian dual citizens. a 4-year-old was among the nine americans believed to be held in gaza. we don't have an exact number nor does the white house of how many americans are being held. they think it's been 7 and 10. she and 4-year-old abigail edan are the only americans to be released since friday. joining us from jerusalem, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. another day, another 24-hour extension. they're coming in some

increments, but another batch of hostages released which is good news. >> reporter: it is good news, but i can tell you things are not looking nearly as encouraging today as they were when we spoke yesterday. yesterday there was hope that there could be a two-day -- a two-day-plus extension of this truce, that there could be a path to potentially a wider deal, but in the 11th hour, this truce was agreed to only be extended by one day. there was a major disagreement when hamas put forward an initial list saying they were going to hand over seven hostages and the bodies of three -- three hostages who were killed according to hamas and israeli air strikes, and israel rejected that, and the talks do seem to be -- i don't want to say breaking down, but entering into a much more complicated phase. we are now only in a one-day

extension, and then there's tension building around this -- around this negotiation. there was a shooting attack here in jerusalem this morning. according to israeli police, two palestinians from here in jerusalem, from eastern jerusalem attacked a group of israelis killing three of them, wounding several others. three of them in serious condition, and then yesterday, there was a raid in the west bank city of janine and two palestinian boys were killed. they were buried last night in the darkness which is very unusual for muslim burials because the people are afraid that the israeli military would raid them again. so tensions are already starting to escalate significantly as the talks are starting to break down. so i think we could be entering into perhaps the final hours or the final day of this truce before israel resumes its

military campaign against gaza, but doing that has cost. doing that has cost for the people of gaza, obviously. according to the health ministry in gaza run by hamas, about 15,000 people in gaza have already been killed, and for israel there's the cost. it will face public relations backlash if it starts its military campaign against gaza particularly in the south, and it could slow or stop this process that we're seeing now where hamas has been slowly releasing some of its hostages in exchange for relatively low-level palestinian prisoners. it's not over until it's over, but this morning, willie, things are not looking really good. >> when the fighting resumes as you suggest, it might happen soon from the israeli side. we have been talking to military experts in the last couple of days who say they expect it to be perhaps more targeted from the israeli side, meaning special forces, special operations looking for hostages, perhaps less bombing.

is that your sense of things? is israel -- they're aware with a little nudge from the white house perhaps that it needs to stop killing civilians as it looks for hamas. >> reporter: that is the messaging that is coming from the white house. the white house has quite publicly been briefing journalists, making public statements, saying that that's what it wants israel to do, that if israel does go ahead and resume its bombing campaign, it wants it to be more talkative this time, not just using heavy bunker buster bombs in crowded refugee camps like it did in other parts of the northern gaza strip, but we will see if that happens. israel's consistent argument has been that hamas uses human shields, that it puts its tunnels under civilian areas and that there is only so much that it can do. so we will see if it is more of a targeted campaign. israel may claim that it is carrying out a more targeted campaign, and hamas and the people in gaza could easily

claim that israel is carrying out indiscriminate bombings. a more targeted campaign is a bit of a degree of perception. so i'm not sure that necessarily we're going to see a campaign that is -- that is bloodless, and that will be accepted by the world. we will see what happens, frankly. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel reporting live from jerusalem again this morning. thank you as always, richard. we appreciate it. joe, another one-day extension here in the truce in fighting. we may be running out of time as richard said of these 24-hour extensions to get hostages out. we could see fighting again soon. >> and maybe running out of hostages. >> right. >> we still don't know how many hostages are still alive. we don't know how many hostages were killed. the women who were brutally raped, and then taken into captivity, chances are good we will never see them again, sadly, tragically because hamas is so barbaric, and it's --

israel finds itself in -- in -- from the very start in a no-win situation. they endured the worst slaughter of situation. they endured the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust, and then they dealt with the kidnappings where hamas -- you have a terrorist group, hamas, who kidnapped women, children, 3-month-old babies, and, you know, of course, hamas has always used their people as human shields. you know, i said at the beginning of this, willie, that for hamas, a dead jew was the same as a dead palestinian. i think i had my calculations wrong. i think hamas figured out that a dead palestinian, that they used as a human shield was worth ten dead jews.

hamas has known exactly how this was going to play out from the very beginning when they raped and brutalized women, drove them around, and other palestinians were beating them and brutalizing sometimes dead corpses. when they burned babies in the cribs, shot babies multiple times in the cribs, hamas knew what they were doing, and they knew exactly how this would unfold. they would take hostages, put them in tunnels underground. the israelis would have to come and try to destroy an organization that did the most heinous things and killed more jews since the holocaust, and then the world would go up in arms because they had to go to a densely populated area to try to root out the terrorists who did this to their women, to their children, to their grandmothers and grandfathers.

so -- so here we are and andrea, israel finds itself in a position where it has to root out hamas. it has to destroy the terror organization. they have no other choice. in such a confined space, you know, it's so much better than any of us. in such a confined space, you cannot live, you know, a wall cannot separate you from a governing body that came over on october 7th and did the savage things they did to israelis, but help us out here. what does the biden administration think? what do the israelis think, andrea, about the unfolding situation? the longer this pause goes on, the more this terrorist organization re-groups, and the more hostages that are released, great, great news for the israelis, and for all of us

seeing these joyous pictures, but also hamas as "the new york times" reported yesterday, gains more power in the west bank because they're seen as the great liberators of palestinian hostages. it seems everywhere israel turns, they face a more difficult choice. so what's the next step here? >> it's so difficult. obviously the most complicated foreign policy issue that any of our leaders, that any of us have ever faced as analysts, basically the administration is now beginning to pivot slightly. there are those in the administration who really are trying to persuade the one decider, the president of the united states, that the bear hug was important at the beginning, but that it can't be continuing given the civilian casualties, and even if the hamas numbers of 15,000 civilian dead are exaggerated, you're still

talking about thousands and thousands of people, the devastation which tactically is losing a lot of force for israel, and the argument is now publicly as well as privately that they have to change tactics. they have to use precision weapons which we are hoping to provide. they have to figure out not to use the bombs, the bunker busters that they originally used on the refugee camp for instance. they can't go in hard and heavy in the south where 80% of the population has been at their own direction moved from the north, into so-called safe zones because there's just no way to do it. they have to use more ground forces which will increase, of course, the casualty rate of the idf. so there are tradeoffs in every place. they're trying to persuade israel to do a better job of controlling what they view -- what the administration views itself, as the extremist settlers. this was spoken at the united nations security council yesterday by our u.n. ambassador in a very balanced approach, but

she said that they have to do something to prevent a real uprising in the west bank because that will be two fronts now. what we have now is secretary of state blinken on his third trip there in israel, you know, waking up today and also going to see the palestinians. so they're trying to balance that, and most importantly, bill burns still in qatar trying to negotiate a longer ceasefire. they do think that they have control to the best extent that they can with the help of u.s. intelligence now, the overflights, the reaper drones. they're doing a better job. they can't get to the tunnels, but they're doing a better job of at least getting intelligence on hamas rebuilding, and they've got to figure out a way, yes, to get into the tunnels, but what they're trying to do is try to get an agreement that would include the adult-aged men, the idf women and some of the other

hostages to extend this, but that is now looking less and less -- less and less probable. >> david, let's talk about this dilemma the biden administration finds itself in. to andrea's point, there are hopes about extending this ceasefire, but that hope seems to be waning at least somewhat. we had the president muse over weekend he might be considering attaching aid to israel. the white house knocked that down and said that's not on the table. they said, the strikes need to be targeted. knock off the violence in the west bank. is your sense that prime minister netanyahu is listening? >> i think israel has to listen when its superpower backer expresses strong opinions and biden has a lot of credibility in israel after going quickly to israel. in israel, it was shattered by the october 7th attacks, and like we've said embracing israel and giving stern advice.

i think this hostage release process probably does have some more time to go. there are technical difficulties now on getting the list for the next and the next, but it's my understanding talking with people who have been involved in these negotiations that there is agreement on the categories of individuals who will be released in the next series of waves, and it could go all the way through to the soldiers, the israeli soldiers who were really the prize that hamas cares most about. so they've talked in detail, bill burns, the director, the head of mossad, and the qatari mediators. that's got a way to run. the issue i hear haunting the administration officials and probably people in israel is that one we see in every conflict. how does this war end? how in the end does israel achieve its goal of destroying the political power of hamas so it never rules gaza again?

and who maintains stability? a post-hamas -- >> is netanyahu the person who can do that? >> mika, it's very hard to find an israeli who thinks that benjamin netanyahu will be prime minister after this war ends. >> right. right. >> he's become quite unpopular in israel. >> right. so sam stein, while, you know, there are this hope of more hostages and i don't know how many if there are, but the psychological need to bring these family members home is huge in terms of the overall makeup of moving forward in this attempt to get to solutions, but at the same time, as andrea pointed out, the ground forces might be needed as opposed to the bunker busters, and we all know that hamas is preparing for that during this pause every single moment they can. >> right. well, joe underlined the main issue here which is that the long-term solution is

complicated by the short-term tactics. >> right. >> and so hamas' popularity is gaining because of the release of these palestinian prisoners which in turn complicates netanyahu's vision for a post-hamas gaza, and when you hear netanyahu interviewed in whenever he does press, and he's pressed on this issue which david articulated about, what comes next after the invasion? there's not actually sound answers. not really anything he can say. it's plainly that hamas cannot be in charge, but also the palestinian authority cannot be in charge. there's not a political entity in gaza that anyone can identify that will then come into power, and so if that is the case, what is the post-invasion reality? does the idf have to say there an de facto ruling body? if that's so, doesn't that

increase the popularity of hamas? the issue that netanyahu hasn't tackled is short-term tactics, fine, we've ruled out hamas. a hostage situation where you've negotiated makes a lot of sense, you you have to have a long-term political solution or diplomatic solution here. nothing has been laid out, and if anything, you can make the argument that the sheer force with which he's gone into gaza has complicated that long-term political solution for israel. >> joe? >> david, i want to circle back to something we talked about a few weeks ago about the end game here. israel in gaza is not an option. there's a reason israelis left in 2005. hamas in gaza is not an option. doesn't it seem that the only option at one point -- at some point the only option is to perhaps have a united nations force with arab countries in

charge? sunni arab countries running that peacekeeping force, obviously with the united states playing a very active role because as you know, and as i've heard diplomats in the region say, well, we're not going to be there unless the united states is fully invested and has our back. isn't that where we have to end up here? >> so joe, that's exactly where president biden and secretary of state blinken would like this story to end. they have said so, biden in an op-ed piece in "the washington post," and blinken in tokyo. that is the u.s. preferred course. the problem is that it requires several things. first, it requires the defeat of hamas, and that's something that we're increasingly queasy about because it involves such terrible loss of civilian palestinian life. the world just isn't comfortable

watching that. so that's -- >> right. >> that's the first problem. the second problem is obviously who's going to go in and enforce, stabilize gaza after hamas? it's easy to say that our arab friends will do it, but so far they're saying, we don't want to ride in on the back of an israeli tank. we're not comfortable with that. we could get other countries presumably who have been helpful in peacekeeping missions, scandinavian countries, perhaps japan. others you can think of, but joe, you're describing what everybody would like to see, but there's still a huge distance to getting there, and that's precisely what i think people in the nsc are talking about right now this week. >> we're going to continue this conversation. >> and mika, that's why -- forgive me. >> no problem. >> a slight delay here. mika, let me say as we wrap this up, that's why it is so critical that at some point, israel moves forward beyond the netanyahu

era, if this is to happen. >> yeah. >> and everybody knows that. i mean, everybody around the world knows that. everybody around the middle east knows that. the israelis know that. i understand, again, it's all -- we all have to keep this in context. we talked about the first month being like the day after 9/11, so obviously we're going to get to a stage where there's going to have to be a new leader in israel that will allow us to look forward to that day because as david ignatius said, as a lot of brilliant foreign policy minds said, at the beginning of this war, conduct this war with the day after the war ends in mind. >> mm-hmm. >> so -- so we understand what happened in the phase right after the attacks.

>> mm-hmm. >> but it has come at a heavy, heavy cost for israel around the region, and they need to move to the next phase at some point quickly. they have to move to the next phase. coming up, we'll reflect on the passing of the former secretary of state henry kissinger who died yesterday at the age of 100. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." 'll be right more "morning joe. whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. get it before it's gone on the subway app. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well.

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back now to the death of former secretary of state henry kissinger. lester holt reports on the life and legacy of the controversial figure who played a major role in american diplomacy for decades. >> thank you. nice to see you all. >> reporter: he was brilliant, ambitious, controversial, and one of the most influential secretaries of state in american history. >> i think we made further progress. >> reporter: henry kissinger served richard nixon, gerald ford, and was consulted by presidents of both parties on

international issues throughout his life. >> henry kissinger has been a friend of mine. >> reporter: nixon made him a national figure, and together they reimagined u.s. foreign policy. they talked with the soviet union, relations with china, shuttled diplomacy in the middle east. kissinger helped shape nixon's policy in vietnam and negotiated an end to the war, famously declaring success prematurely just days before the 1972 election. >> we believe that peace is at hand. >> reporter: he was awarded the nobel peace prize. >> nothing that has happened to me in public life has moved me more than this award. >> reporter: though his co-recipient, north vietnam's lei duck to declined the honor. president ford awarded him the medal of freedom.

he was a master of pragmatic, big-picture diplomacy, but he had his critics who described him as manipulative and insecure. some called him a war criminal for his role in bombing cambodia, and widening the war in vietnam. born in germany in 1923, kissinger's jewish family fled to america as hitler rose to power. he became a u.s. citizen, served in world war ii, and earned a ph.d. at harvard where he became a professor. he caught the eye of richard nixon who made him national security adviser, then secretary of state, the only person ever to hold both jobs simultaneously. >> there is no country in the world where it is conceivable that a man of my origins could be standing here next to the president of the united states. [ applause ] >> reporter: but their relationship was complicated,

and white house tapes reveal that kissinger sometimes enabled the worst in nixon. >> it was a very curious relationship because we were not personally very close. >> reporter: the night before he resigned in disgrace, nixon asked kissinger to kneel and pray with him. >> and of course, it was a crushing moment, but i think of that evening as an experience with dignity and it was very moving. >> reporter: kissinger was no faceless bureaucrat. he was a world-renowned celebrity. >> i loved you. >> reporter: and he loved the spotlight. he was even something of a pop culture icon. after leaving government, he opened his own consulting firm, remaining active and sought after for decades. at 95, eulogizing john mccain's life, kissinger sounded a wistful note about his own.

>> like most people of my age, i feel a longing for what is lost and cannot be restored. >> reporter: henry kissinger was a man of great accomplishment, and controversy, but as he once told nbc's barbara walters, he had no regrets. >> if i had to do it over again, i would do again substantially the same way, which is may be one reason why i'm at peace with myself. >> lester holt reporting and mike barnicle with us. you look at the scope of his influence. 12 presidents he advised either formally or informally from jfk to joe biden. think about that, and within that, as lester pointed out, there's a lot of stuff that a lot of people object to. some people call him a war criminal for what happened in cambodia and louse as well. an influential, important, but a

mixed legacy for henry kissinger. >> mixed legacy, but highly brilliant, highly controversial. he helped shape american foreign policy through several decades as you've pointed out through several presidents. one glaring error henry kissinger, we just heard him say, if he had everything to do all over again, he would do it substantially the same way. well, from january, 1969 when richard nixon was sworn in as president and henry kissinger was his national security adviser, and later his secretary of state from january of 1969 until 1974, over 20,000 american young people were killed in vietnam, and they discussed the size of a table in paris for about a year and a half, and people were getting killed each and every day. that was just totally outrageous, and the history doesn't lie, and his legacy will endure. his legacy will be honored for

several good reasons, obviously, but history ought to reflect the negative aspects as well. >> andrea mitchell, you covered henry kissinger closely over the years. what about his legacy stands out to you? >> well, and acknowledging what michael just said, what mike barnicle just said, i got to know him very well, and just after his 100th birthday, he was at the council of foreign relations gives a talk on foreign relations. so the fact that to his very death, he was writing on ai and of course, the trip to china this summer in july to see president xi jinping, he was always active and always curious. >> engaging. >> he never stopped thinking and working, and creating really. i do remember a number of years ago with the csis, the think tank here in washington. it was one of his birthdays in the '90s, and mika's dad was in

the audience, and that rivalry that went all the way back to when one was at harvard and the other was at columbia, and they had different roles in foreign policy, it was two intellectual giants sparring, and they began kind of teasing each other in a friendly, be you still -- relentlessly. >> you were there, mika, in the audience and we were watching this play out, you know, two men still vigorous intellectually. >> yeah. >> it was extraordinary, the amount of intellectual fire power he brought to it. his last book on china was really brilliant. so, you know, he did -- he never stopped, and i admired that as well as he was very sentimental and he was a great sense of humor and a charm, which obviously did, you know, carried him through those nixon years as well, and devoted to his wife,

nancy. coming up, a new approach to an old, complicated problem. one of our next guests explains how one major american city is fighting homelessness and winning. nick kristauf joins us with his latest column in "the new york times" when "morning joe" comes right back. the new york times" when "morning joe" comes right back earing was not so good so i got hearing aids. my vision was not as good as it used to be, got a change in prescription. but the this missing was my memory. i saw a prevagen commercial and i thought, "that makes sense." i just didn't have to work so hard to remember things. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

you can't say stuff like that. >> why not? rickles is the oneon one that can make jokes. we're supposed to be brothers, right? >> we don't want top a beef. >> we're brothers, right? >> that's right. you're brothers. >> we're brothers. >> i'm not arguing with you. everybody's a brother. you're his brother. i'm not, but you guys are. that's what i would like, if you just -- >> all right. >> okay? >> we're brothers. >> we're brothers. coming up, our next guest acted alongside joe pesci and robert deknee rein "the irishman." now sebastian maniscalco was starring in a new dark comedy

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♪♪ live picture of the white house, 8:43 in the morning of washington. republican presidential candidate nikki haley has received a show of support from the leader of the largest commercial bank in the united states, the ceo of jpmorgan chase, jamie dimon praised haley at the book summit yesterday. dimon also confirmed he's been in talks with the former u.n. ambassador and urged other business leaders to consider supporting her 2024 presidential run. dimon also suggested democrats should think about backing haley. >> what do you think of the two leading candidates right now? >> oh, god. i'm, you know, i'm not going to tell you. >> you're not going to tell me? >> i did come out and make a nice statement about nikki

haley. >> you did. you have been talking to her. >> even if you are a liberal democrat, help nikki haley too. get a choice on the republican side that might be better than trump. >> that's jamie dimon talking there, and ambassador haley received the endorsement of the koch network. andrew ros sorkin will join us, and he has major headlines from ex-ceo elon musk. when we come back, we'll be joined by comedy superstar sebastian maniscalco to talk about his new series "bookie", and much more. about his new series "bookie", and much more.

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that rate is increasing as more and more businesses we are citi. move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business.

what kind of job do i got? nobody pays me. >> what if i make thismemorabil? guys, i've got babe ruth's autopsy report. >> i'm going to tell you something i never told a client ever. you shouldn't bet on sports. >> i can't do this anymore, danny. the smalltime bookie [ bleep ]. >> almost out of time before california legalizes sports degenerates. >> the oswalds are here. ♪♪ >> that was good. >> you're going to jail forever. >> that's a look at the new show "bookie" premiering today on

max. it follows the life of a bookmaker in l.a. the star of that show, one of the top-selling comedians on the planet, sebastian maneskalko. tickets go on sale tomorrow for his 47-city tour including at madison square garden. nice to see you. 47 nights. what have i done? >> i heard that. like, am i doing that? we're excited for the show to come out. i'm bouncing around new york city talking to everybody on the planet. >> this show is great, "bookie." it's out today. you've got acting chops too. the story goes that chuck lurie

saw you in "the irishman" and said, man, this guy can act too. >> i pitched him a show kind of around my life. he said we've got this show around a bookie we'd like to do. any interest in that? that's kind of an idea or a concept i've never seen on tv what a bookie is doing now that legalized gambling is everywhere. it's pretty interesting. i'm collecting money from a trust fund kid, a housewife and everybody in between. >> how is it different now for a bookie? now i can just pick up my phone and make a bet. i don't have to meet somebody in a dark alley, like i used to all the time. >> in a dark alley with a paper

bag of money. [ laughter ] >> i think some people like a bookie just because they want to be off the grid. there's a relationship with a bookie that you just don't have with an iphone. >> you're a busy guy. how did you decide this was a part you wanted to play? >> first, i wanted to do a comedy. i'd never done a tv show. i did a pilot six years ago, but i'd never done a comedic tv show, single camera. with chuck, who is a hitmaker and he has north of a thousand episodes of tv under his belt, i was like, wow, what a great guy to do this with. we shot it in los angeles. i shot it in l.a. i got to be home with my kids. it was really great. i hope we have an opportunity to do it again. it's a funny show. it's dark.

i really enjoyed doing it. >> let's give people another look here at "bookie." we see sebastian's character juggling the demands of everyday life with that unusual day job. >> we got a problem. >> what do you need? >> $1500. >> i just gave you $3,000. >> my invisalign, hello. his father is in a psych ward eating with a spork. >> i know. yeah? >> how's your day going? >> life's a cabaret. >> rams over 52, titans play six, dime on each. >> good luck, 703. >> all right. i'm sorry. i'll come by later. >> if you let me open a checking

account, i won't have to bother you. >> what are the two conditions i gave you before we got married? >> no banks, no musicals. >> i love you. bye-bye. >> juggling a lot, this guy. >> he's got a personal life, a wife, a stepkid. a bookie also has another life outside of being a bookie. i think the connotation is a bookie is in some darkroom with a bunch of papers smoking a cigarette. but we explore his life outs side of being a bookie as well, which is interesting. >> you have been around the country with your standup. what do you get out of this kind of work that's different? obviously, you don't have the immediate response from the audience. how is this gratifying in a different way from standup? >> this is challenging for me. this is comedy. there's no audience there, so

sometimes i don't know if it's funny because the validation when i do standup. but i like it. it's a different form of entertainment for me. every day i go on set, i'm learning something new. for me, it's working with other people. standup, you're alone. now i got costars and other actors i'm working with. it's fun to explore and improv a lot. it's nice. it's a nice departure to do this and go back to standup. >> we were watching some of these clips. people were going to say, is that charlie sheen in there? yeah, that's charlie sheen back with chuck lurie after "two and a half men." what was it like to work with him? >> shy, humble, a professional. we ran lines. i'm 50, and i can't remember

anything anymore. i got to read these scripts over and over again. so i was asking people always, you want to run lines? he was great. he was an absolute professional. i never met him prior to this. he's in two episodes. he plays himself. it's great. >> the last time i talked to you about a year ago, you were on the cusp of your movie coming out with de niro. de niro is playing your father. you said, i just can't believe this. actually, i didn't think he'd say yes. he said yes. and you tell the story about your dad going down and spending time with de niro for a few days. do you still pinch yourself that you've got a 47-night tour around the country and you're acting with de niro? >> it's funny. i was an an airplane. somebody was watching the movie about my father in front of me.

i tapped the woman on the shoulder, is that a good movie? yeah, yeah, it's all right. nothing. then she turned around again. no, it's about a son and a father who visit a rich family. >> i go, you know i'm in the movie, right? she looks and goes, oh, that's you? that's the story of my career. i'm in a movie with de niro and the woman in front of me on the airplane doesn't even know i'm in it and she's talking to me. it's crazy. i got into this business to do standup comedy, and it's taken me places i never thought it would take me. >> congratulations on the show. the first two episodes of "bookie" are available now to stream on max. catch new episodes every thursday. mika. it's the top of our fourth hour now.

joining us in washington is former white house press secretary, now an msnbc host jen psaki. jonathan lemire is back with us as well. we'll get to our top story. hamas is expected to release another ten hostages later today. overnight israel and hamas struck a last-minute deal to extend the pause in fighting for another day. the agreement was made just minutes before the temporary truce was set to expire. so far, hamas has released 99 hostages. that includes the 16 people freed yesterday. these moments are incredible to watch. they bring tears to the eyes even if you don't know these people, you feel for them. but there are so many contingencies and so many other things at play with these pauses and if they get extended in

terms of hamas using that time to get ready for ground invasions or whatever might happen after the hostage releases. >> it's only going to get harder from here. the negotiations from yesterday were tough about the list of hostages that were coming out. officials have told me hamas does not have in their possession that many more women and children hostages for two reasons. some of the hostages are held by other groups that hamas does not have a say over. and the hostages hamas does have now are men or israeli military. they want a much steeper price from israel to get those out. it's very tenuous at this

moment. >> we're hearing more stories about exactly what happened while these hostages were in captivity. we don't know how many more are left to be released. >> we don't know how many are still alive. we don't know how many hamas still has control over. we do understand, though, that the situation in doha as far as negotiations go is getting more difficult by the day, and the situation on the ground is far more difficult as well can killings in jerusalem leading hamas to actually call for, quote, escalation. let's go to jerusalem right now. richard engel, we've been talking this morning about how everywhere israel turns there are more great challenges. you have the rise in popularity of hamas in the west bank. that along with extremist

settlers is a toxic mix and a possibility of yet another front opening up. and you have israelis getting gunned down in jerusalem. where do they go from here? >> reporter: i think you summed it up quite well. the situation is in a state of collapse. for the last 20 years, israel has been kind of coasting without a peace process. the palestinians have been coasting along also without a peace process. that has now failed. you have two governments governing the palestinian people. one in the west bank, which is incredibly weak, has no credibility, led by mahmoud abbas. and the other in the gaza strip, that is hamas, which is radical and militant. the palestinians have been trying to exist in these two realities. israel has been existing with these two governments. that has now fallen apart. so where do you go from here?

israel is trying to tackle these problems separately, trying to invade gaza, has invaded now gaza to replace hamas. but what is it going to replace it with? that hasn't been addressed. and what is it going to replace the government in the west bank with? that has also not been replaced. abbas does not have the respect of his people, so the palestinians are effectively leaderless. some say that is exactly what benjamin netanyahu has wanted, that he refers a divide and conquer strategy so there wouldn't be anyone left to negotiate with. that strategy, as is clear right now, hasn't worked. that is the general framework. yes, things look extremely bleak. in the short-term, we are in this crisis. how do you get out of it? these talks in doha are

critical. the cia director, head of the mossad are trying to talk about short-term and long-term solutions, how to fix this structural problem where the palestinians are leaderless. but in the short term, they're trying to at least get another two or three days to keep the exchange of hostage process moving along. it looked more encouraging yesterday. as the numbers start dwindling and hamas doesn't have as many women and children to give up, the discussions are getting much more fraught. hamas is now talking about handing over dead hostages that it says were killed by the israelis. israel doesn't want the dead hostages, or wants them, but it wants the live hostages as well.

then you get into this issue of who's a soldier, who's not a soldier, and what is the cost for that. right now, for the women and children, hamas has made a deal where they're accepting three palestinian prisoners for every woman and child hostage. israel has accepted that and is handing over very low-level detainees, people effectively held for administrative defenses. for the people hamas considers soldiers, military age men and women, they want hard core militants, hamas leaders, larger numbers. now we're at a sticking point. >> so help us out in the states, richard, help us understand the political situation there. you brought up the west bank. it's something we haven't mentioned since the terror attacks, because the biden white house and other allies of israel didn't want to talk about

israel's shortcomings in the days after those horrific terrorist attacks. but it is a reality that the biden white house and others across the middle east know that what you said is the case. netanyahu has deliberately undermined west bank authorities for years for political purposes. he's sort of made a deal with the devil with hamas in gaza, thinking that he could play both sides. that, of course, exploded in the worst of possible ways, the worst mass killing of jews since the holocaust. i'm curious, the biden administration, you can read between the lines and understand that their patience may be wearing a bit thin with netanyahu, especially in his approach to the war. but help us understand what the israeli people are thinking.

i know he has very low approval ratings there, but at the same time 80% of israelis want this war to continue. what is benjamin netanyahu's political future there? >> reporter: okay. so a lot to unpack there. his political future is fraught. if you believe the opinion polls -- and there are multiple polls -- he has no political future. the vast majority of israels, according to polls, think his time is up, that he should go. he's been the leading political figure here for the last 20 years. this attack happened on october 7th that was carried out by hamas, but people are blaming him for failed policies, for making an alliance with extremists and for the response to october 7th. i think people have forgotten what happened on that day. hamas attacked at around 6:30 in the morning.

the israeli security forces didn't respond for eight hours in some cases. in some places, they didn't respond until the next day. that is a catastrophic failure. this is a small country. i can drive down to the kibbutzes attacked on that day and be there in an hour and a half. where were the helicopters? where was the military response? there's a great deal of anger here that has been pushed aside while israelis are trying to cope with the hostage crisis to try and cope with what is going on right now. bibi's political future, i think, is problematic to say the least. what happens after him is an open question, because there's many possible contenders. going back to the other question you were asking, how do you get out of this? how does the united states help encourage this process along? i've been covering this region for a long time. i lived in jerusalem and i was here 20 years ago when yassar

arafat was the leader of the palestinians. if a deal was negotiated, it was going to be negotiated through him. the deal didn't happen. many people blame arafat for not signing an ultimate deal. i think that's probably an exaggeration, because the peace process wasn't a single-day event. there were many factors involved in why it fell apart. but once it did fall apart and arafat died, there was no attempt to create a single, unified palestinian leadership. instead, netanyahu and others in government have preferred the divide-and-conquer approach, have a radical government in gaza, because you don't have to deal with a radical government, and have a weak government in the west bank that doesn't pressure you. that system has fallen apart right now.

so is israel willing to accept a new palestinian leader, someone who could unify the entire public? and there are problems with that as well, because you in theory would have to deal with that person. several names have been suggested. but one name we're hearing time and time again was a leader of the palestinians, a secular nationalist. he's in an israeli jail right now. he is a figure who could unite both palestinians in the west bank and in the gaza strip. but israel until now has not been willing to release him, perhaps because of his ability to unite the palestinians. i do know from sources in doha that his name is once again on the table. he is being talked about in these negotiations. >> people wondering why we're talking about domestic politics in the west bank, if you haven't been exposed to the history

there, a weak palestinian authority in the west bank only strengthens hamas, only makes a two-state solution more impossible. nbc's richard engel, as always, we greatly appreciate you being here. thank you so much. david brooks, thank you so much for being with us. you have a recent essay for the "new york times"sking the question, how do we stay humane in inhumane times? as a great question, especially in these times. it's a question that, of course, needs to be asked in israel as we move through this war and toward the end of the war, what does the region look like the day after and how do we move toward a two-state solution, which we have to have?

>> yeah. i was thinking about us who have to live with this world, live with the brutality of the world and those of us who just follow the news and are involved in bitter, angry, negative emotion conversations a lot these days. there are two wisdoms. ancient greeks had constant warfare in greece. they said don't imagine we're ever going to live in a world of peace beyond the world of war. the quest for civilization is thin and we have to be humble in the face of this and know we don't always control our own destinies. things happen. we have to stare that in the face. we also have to move cautiously. in politics, the lowers are lower than the highs are highs. when a politician screws up,

things are really bad. always be suspicious of your own rage. it feels great to be enraged. it's also blinding. but then jerusalem, the centerpiece of three great abrahamic faiths, the audacity of recognition saying, i see you, i respect you, you're a human being with a soul. even when life a brutal, it's still right to lead with respect, curiosity and trust. and will you be betrayed in times like that? for sure. but it's still good to lead with trust, because most of the time i've found people will trust you back. >> talk about specifically how that applies to the conflict we were just talking about. the war we're talking about as

israel faces the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust and the great paradox of having to figure out how to move forward and do two things at one time, root out hamas. and i know nobody wants to hear this right now, but it goes to what you're saying. start seeing the palestinian situation in a way that actually helps israel by helping the palestinians move beyond. and we bring up netanyahu not because we are interested in israeli domestic politics, but because it impacts the united states, it impacts the region and the world and it impacts human beings on the ground. how do they move forward in a way that guarantees a two-state solution, guarantees that

endless warfare since 1948 comes to an end? >> i covered the middle east mostly in the '90s and the 2000s. at that time we really thought peace was at hand. my kid when he was young, he would only nap in the car. so i would drive him around the west bank. there were no checkpoints then. it seemed like peace was at hand. then i remember going to a big dinner with shimon peres. it was half israelis and half palestinians. they got along great. they spent 40 years in the peace process business, so there actually was rapport there. every year since then, there's been more demonization. they don't talk about palestinians in the same way. it's often bitter and cruel and often racist, and the

palestinians the same. my son enlisted in the israeli defense forces about seven or eight years ago. he served in thosepo used to drive him, and it had all gotten much worse. that's a deterioration of the moral culture where people have just stopped seeing each other. that's a political and social problem that the leadership will have to deal with. >> all countries are seeing some version of that, including here. this is fascinating. we want to turn to political news here at home. donald trump is running against an issue that is popular with the american people. after posting on social media earlier this week that he was, quote, seriously looking at alternatives to obamacare, trump doubled down last night writing, quote, i want to replace it with much better health care. obamacare sucks. we'll just note that a survey by the kaiser family foundation

found that 59% of americans view the affordable care act favorably and they use it. the "wall street journal" editorial board writes in pa, quote, donald trump handed his opponents another gift over the weekend by vowing to terminate obamacare, or at least that's how democrats are translating his comments. democrats are distorting the issue as ever, but they know mr. trump has no plan of his own. recall that republicans failed to repeal and replace obamacare in 2017 despite controlling both houses of congress. john mccain's opposition killed the gop's last reform bill. but mr. trump's unwillingness to understand the policy arguments was the bigger problem. his inability to martial a case, to rally public opinion, contributed to its failure and the gop's losses in the midterms. if republicans have nothing more to say than mr. trump does,

they're bte off ducking the subject, lest they lead with their chins. jen, add abortion to this, which is related, do they really want to go there on this? >> i spent eight years in the obama white house when obamacare was very unpopular and republicans were running against it and actually won back the house and defended their ownership of the house multiple times as a result. you know when that changed? when they started talking about taking away people's access to health care. >> exactly. >> and people started realizing what they're talking about is putting my kids on my health care plan and covering preexisting conditions. that's when it changed. what's so odd, interesting, weird about this is this is a very outdated political playbook. >> it's already not worked. >> it doesn't work. if you're a republican running to take a democratic seat or in a vulnerable seat, you're

thinking, please stop talking about this. >> it's so forth of like take away health care, take away 50 years of rights. what more can you take away? the republican party, we're for taking away things. >> the gop is painting itself in a small corner where they're appealing to fewer and fewer voters. re-read donald trump's statesmanlike oratory there. they have given biden a gift. this is exactly what they want to be talking about. >> i worked the governor's race in 2014 in nebraska, and you could not say obama or health care. my, how the times have changed. the biden campaign talks about how under donald trump access to health care, he didn't do anything to expand it.

then when president biden and vice president harris came into office, what they did to expand access and lower costs. it's playing in key markets like atlanta, philadelphia, phoenix, vegas. part of what the disconnect is between all the progress that is happening and how people feel about it is that some of it, people just haven't heard, they're not seeing it in their daily lives. maybe they don't realize the fact that insulin is capped to $35 for people on medicare is because of the biden administration, not just some random act from above. so they have to tell people what they have done, and they're doing that. >> they really do. >> how fascinating. i'm curious what insights you may have about a party that continues to embrace unpopular positions, continues to embrace trumpism when it costs them in

the polls, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023. now they are going with a guy who said, i terminated roe v wade, bragging about it, going against obamacare and also still talking about the 2020 election when the overwhelming majority of republicans want to look forward. how does this party continue to stay so enraptured with a seven-time loser? >> the encouraging thing about the biden administration is that i think it's a mistake for them to try to build up biden's approval. he's just not going to get there. they could make this a prosaic election. we're going to offer you health care. they're clearly committing political suicide by nominating

donald trump, opposing abortion policies, opposing obamacare. yet you look at the polls, republican and democrat, republicans are in pretty good shape. somehow they've managed to maintain political viability in the party despite doing all sorts of unpopular things. why is that? first, a lot of people look back on the trump years, oh, they're more peaceful than now. second, a lot of it is baked into the cultural cake that a lot of people just don't like coastal elites, and they're going to be for the party the coastal elites hate. politically by all the normal years, i don't understand why they're still a viable party. >> maybe i'm being too optimistic. i think, in part, it's because we're in november of 2023 and not in november of 2024.

i think the mind will be far more focused because of all of these things we're talking about right now. david, i'm focused on christmas gifts. >> i already told him. >> if you walk into our little condo, you will see stacks of how to know a person by david brooks. i'm going to ruin all of my children's christmases because i'm giving each one of them this book. i think the insights are wonderful for all of us, whether we may be a bit easier in social settings and it may come more naturally or not. as you have said, you have not been more natural in social settings. the things you learn help all of

us understand others better. can you talk just a little bit about it. >> first, i can't wait to see how sensitive you're going to be. >> he's already getting better. >> one of the things i learned is just how to be a better conversationalist. there are things you tell me you're having problem with something, don't be a topper. it sounds like i'm trying to relate. don't be a topper. >> david, i'm going to top you right here. [ laughter ] >> only to say that since mika and i read the book, i will be talking to my children, my grown children. mika will walk through the room and whisper -- swear to god -- don't be a topper. i mean it. i'm just letting you know,

though, these insights are extraordinarily important not just for us among our friends, but for parents. go ahead, please. >> david, he just topped you, but it was worth it. >> it was worth it. another one is be a loud listener. i have a buddy when you talk to him, it's like you're talking to a pentecostal church, amen, amen, preach that. make people novelists, not witnesses. people don't go into enough detail telling a story. finally the quality of our conversations depends on the quality of our questions. we're all sort of in the question asking business. i like to ask people what's your favorite unimportant thing about you. my favorite thing about me is i

like early taylor swift more than later taylor swift. i can't remember high school, but all these high school breakup songs really get to me. another question, if this five years is a chapter in your life, what is this chapter about? or how do your ancestors show up in your life? these are ways to take normal conversations and make them memorable conversations. you really feel you're with that person. >> loud listening, loud listening! >> amen! >> the book "how to know a person, the art of seeing others deeply and being deeply seen" is out now. it is fabulous. david's audio essay, "staying humane in inhumane times" is available online from the "new york times." coming up, elon musk lashed out at major advertisers.

it was something. he was talking about advertisers looking to boycott "x." and did he ever lash out. andrew ross sorkin joins us on the heels of that explosive interview that he had with elon musk. you're watching "morning joe." d musk you're watching "morning joe." switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. - [narrator] what will you do when the power goes out? power outages can be unpredictable and inconvenient, but with a generac home standby generator, your life goes on uninterrupted because you'll have power when you need it the most. - with the generac it powers our well, the refrigerator, and my cpap machine, which are all things that we need to survive on a day-to-day basis - [narrator] get the security and peace of mind your family deserves with a home standby generator

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a live picture of los angeles. the sun comes up at 6:30 in the morning out there. joining us is andrew ross sorkin. andrew, the man of the hour. at the "new york times" summit yesterday, an incredible list of people you interviewed personally. we've got to start with elon musk. give us a little background, a little color, how it came together. then we'll play the bite people are talking about. >> he came to do an interview. it was planned a long time ago,

but this was really his first interview since the comments he had made on twitter, which had gone viral, condemned around the world as being anti-semitic. advertisers were fleeing the platform. he, of course, then made that trip to israel. he went to texas and came to new york and sat with us. it was a remarkable conversation. at one moment he left me speechless. it also was one of the first times he has ever apologized publicly not only about the comment that he made, but about anything. if you cover elon musk, he is not somebody who expresses remorse. so to actually see him do that was something. i also think the whole conversation -- i know everybody's focused on the advertiser piece and we're going to show you that. it was an opportunity to see inside his mind.

walter isaacson wrote the biography and talked about the many elon musks, the thoughtful einstein, the demon mode, the depressed. i think you got to see all of a that. >> many big advertisers have left "x." he basically said bring it on. >> just to give a little bit more context, one of the other people interviewed yesterday was bob iger, the ceo of disney. i said to bob iger, you have stopped advertising on "x." why? he said that comment elon musk said about what he called the actual truth made him think it wasn't the right platform for him. i thought elon musk would say that he wanted to get bob back, wanted to get disney back on the platform. here's what he had so say. >> this has been said online. there was criticism, there was advertisers leaving. we talked to bob iger today.

>> you know, don't advertise. >> you don't want them to advertise? >> no. >> what do you mean? >> if somebody tries to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go [ bleep ] yourself. >> but -- >> go [ bleep ] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> he specifically invoked bob iger's name. started the playing the victim as if they're just arbitrarily deciding to. he said x will collapse. >> and i pushed back on him and said, look, a lot of the planet may look and say elon, it's your fault, because advertisers don't feel comfortable there. he said he doesn't care, bring on the hate. then we got into a conversation

about trust. how much does it matter to be trusted, not just for "x," but with tesla and starlink in ukraine, russia, israel. it was fascinating to see all sides of it. >> there's all that genius sove. you also spoke with jamie dimon. >> what do you think of the two leading candidates right now? >> i'm not going to tell you. >> you're not going to tell you. >> as a very liberal democrat, i urge you to help nikki haley today. get a choice on the republican side that might be better than

trump. >> he's been advising her in some way. >> i think they've only had one or two conversations. i don't know ultimately if he's historically been a democrat. trump is going after him this morning on truth social as you might imagine. >> interesting the business community seems to have found this alternative and it is nikki haley. >> if there's a horse they're betting on, that's the horse. >> kevin mccarthy also buried the lede in some ways, that the man who was speaker of the house told you yesterday he's thinking about getting out of washington and soon. >> there were two things he said. that was fascinating, that he may leave washington. that's a very real possibility. he has until next friday to file

if he's going to run for reelection. the other thing he said, which was just surprising in its candor or just straightforward directionness when i asked him about the conversations with biden and issues with biden's age and he said he did not believe biden was the same biden he used to deal with, claiming that biden had to read off of cards. age has been a very uncomfortable conversation for a lot of people, but he really went after biden in a way that i had never seen. i interviewed vice president harris later in the afternoon and effectively played that back to her. of course, she then went after him and said that's not something that she sees. >> they're going to lean into the issue of age. circling back to elon musk there

in the bomber jacket with andrew yesterday, what was your take on that? >> i want to get to that. i do have to say to kevin mccarthy, i have spoken with kevin mccarthy and i have sat and spoke with joe biden and i can tell you kevin mccarthy is no joe biden. kevin mccarthy is not in the same league. it's single "a" ball versus just a superstar when it comes to politics. i've always said jeb bush was the most impressive politician i've been around as far as governor and governing. joe biden, when you talk to him about foreign policy, it's just like this, you talk to foreign leaders who talk to joe biden about foreign policy and debate with him, still now they say he's on top of his game.

they're all surprised because people like kevin mccarthy spread this nonsense about him. then they sit and meet him and they see a tough negotiator across the table. but let's talk about elon. here's a guy that i know a lot of people are saying he could lose $40 billion with "x." here's a guy, andrew, who's worth $250 billion, who gets wealthier by the year. while money may mean something to him as far as just like sort of competing with the richest people in the world, people that know him well say the guy wears the same white t-shirt every day. he is not driven by the things that drive others. if he says i'll lose $40 billion and i don't really care about

it, you can almost believe him. >> i agree with you. i don't believe he will let this company fail or go under. i think he cares about it too much you could physically see how much he cares. i would also say, look, the economics of "x" are complicated, but you look at all of the interest and people on "x" still, the advertisers may not be there, but people are. there's an interesting juxtaposition there and whether he knows something that we don't which at some point advertisers go back, i don't know. we're going to see. >> i want to follow up on the jamie dimon conversation.

one ceo and one billionaire after another pushes away from trump because he's too toxic post january 6th. how toxic is donald trump on wall street? how much less likely is it that a ceo will go out saying i'm on team trump in 2024? >> you know, i think he demonstrably is toxic to so many on wall street and so many around the country. we've talked about the backlash happening because of desantis and others around business. in a way, some of the ceos were more willing to be outspoken against trump than they are today. you look at the polls and they say i'm scared that if i come out against donald trump on character or anything else, that there's going to be a backlash on my business.

the idea that he may become the president does scare them, because part of it is, if he becomes president, what kind of retribution will actually take place? >> what a day it was yesterday. incredible work. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. still ahead, how an expert witness responded to republican senator john kennedy of louisiana when he called out chicago's gun violence problem. m

46 past the hour, a live look at the french quarter in new orleans for you this morning. the senate judiciary committee held a hearing on addressing america's gun violence epidemic

yesterday, during which republican senator john kennedy of louisiana asked a witness whether chicago's gun laws led to its high shooting rates. here is the ensuing exchange with the dean of yale school of public health, who is also an e.r. doctor. >> why do you think that chicago has become america's largest outdoor shooting range? do you think it's because of chicago's citizens who have no criminal record but who have lawfully a gun in their home for protection or perhaps for hunting? or do you think it's because of a finite group of criminals who

have rap sheets as long as king kong's arm? >> so mississippi, louisiana and missouri actually have higher firearm death rates. obviously -- >> what about chicago? >> so i don't live in chicago. it's not my primary area of research. >> you don't have an opinion on that? >> i think there's easy access to firearms compared with environmental conditions, lack of great education. there have been studies showing that if they repair abandoned buildings in urban neighborhoods, you see decreases in gunshots and violence and stress and depression in the neighborhoods around them. >> no disrespect, doc, but that sounds a lot like word salad to me. >> you want to talk about word salad? >> it's racism, mika. >> that was racist, elitist, so condescending. >> and ill informed. >> and insulting. let's talk about the numbers the

doctor was referring to. i can't believe this man. it's repulsive, actually, what he just did, what we just showed you. according to the data from the cdc, nine of the ten states with the highest gun death rates in 2021 voted for trump in the last election. that includes the senator's home state of louisiana, which comes in at number two. illinois ranked 26th. when you compare city metrics, chicago is still statistically safer than major cities in the south. chicago had a firearm homicide rate of 23.3 deaths per 100,000 residents, according to the city's police department. for context, st. louis, missouri, had the highest rate in the nation with 76.4 deaths per 100,000. new orleans had a death rate of 65.3 deaths. i don't know what you can add,

but i'd love to hear it. i don't ever think i can interview this senator again without asking him about that and asking him to apologize to the american people for what he did in that question. >> i'm very confused about the rap sheet, because i don't know if he is insinuating that chicago is a city that many people associate with being majority african-american, that the majority people in the city have rap sheets, ie, black people do crime. i can't believe this is happening on the floor of the united states do crime. i just -- i really -- i can't believe this is happening on the floor of the united states congress. the senate, nonetheless, supposed to be the greatest deliberate body this it country. giving the numbers you just gave is really important. there is an epidemic of gun violence in this country, and it is happening in spaces and

places all across the country, not -- there are many people, and i think back to the mayor of louisville, kentucky, after the shooting that happened in the bank where the governor of kentucky, one of his best friends was killed in that shooting, and the mayor stood at press conference, and he said i used to -- i never imagined that something like this could happen here, and we should understand it could happen everywhere. and i think his comments are really important because everywhere across the country, people are dealing with the epidemic of gun violence, and it's why the united states congress should be doing something about it, especially the senate, but this idea that crime and gun violence is relegated to areas that are majority black, majority urban areas is absolutely just not true, and the numbers and the facts and the data, it matters. >> i mean, he knows that, right, jen? >> well, first of all, the other statistic. i mean, i'm a parent, you're a parent, is that this is the number one killer of children is gun violence. everyone -- you don't have to be a republican, a democrat,

nonaffiliated, don't vote. that should be something that is waking up people in horror every single day. the fact that it's not -- you know why, and i hope when you talk to him and he comes on this show and you ask him this -- how much is he getting from the nra and how much are they contributing to him? because that is often the reason why so many people are so afraid of speaking out and voting in a way that, by the way, the majority of the public wants them to vote, which is to put in place more gun violence protection measures in order to protect, by the way, our kids. so it shouldn't be a partisan thing. it's not for the american people. it is only a partisan thing in washington, d.c. >> so senator, just for the record, you're dead wrong, and your insinuations, your tone, and your choice of words is simply repulsive, and it shows who you are. doesn't trigger us here. we're not surprised. we've seen a lot of this. >> i will note, they say his accent is fake. i don't know, people should just look it up.

>> mika's going to find out. >> there were a lot worse things than that going on with him. i got to tell you. i'm trying to think of a better word than repulsive. i am repulsed by what i just m sad for our country and sad for the people that he represents. so we'll move on. america's homeless problem has spiralled into a crisis in recent years. according to data from the department of housing and urban development, nearly 600,000 americans experienced homelessness last year. that is about 18 people out of every 10,000 with the biggest cities seeing the worst impact. but houston is getting praised for how it's going about handling the crisis. the city has slashed the number of unhoused people by more than 60% since 2011, and other cities are starting to follow its model. "new york times" columnist nick kris to have joins us now. he visited houston to learn more about what's going on, the

system there they're using to solve the problem. he chronicle that had journey in a new opinion titled "here's how houston is fighting homelessness -- and winning." and nick i want to hear about it. i just to want let you know i chose a few charities from your list, and my daughters and i are participating in the challenge. we love it. by tell us about houston. >> well, first, thanks to you and your daughter for that. so what was really fascinating about houston is that it underscores that addressing homelessness is not fundamentally about good intentions or about compassion or even about money itself. you know, the west coast has, you could argue certainly it spent much more money on addressing homelessness, and in many ways, i think it's, you know, abounding with good intentions, but it hasn't worked, and what houston shows is that it's -- you know, that good policy trumps good intentions.

it's been in houston about good leadership. it's been about very effective outreach, and it's also been about something that is sort of a little bit uncomfortable for liberals like me, and that is about making it a lot easier to build housing. when i was driving into houston, you know, there was endless urban sprawl, and i was feeling kind of smug and, you know, thank goodness that i'm not in a place that allows this kind of endless sprawl, but the other -- the flip side of that is that sprawl makes it very cheap to build housing. so in houston you can build a housing unit for $200,000 or even less. in san francisco, the government was spending a million dollars in some cases to provide a single housing unit for a person who's homeless. so there's some really difficult tradeoffs there. but i guess the point is that it can be done. it's not hopeless. there are policies that make a real difference. >> so nicholas, are other cities looking to houston's success and seeing if there's things they can replicate? you mentioned the expense issue, and certainly some cities aren't

going to want the sprawl. can density be the solution then? you build up rather than out? >> so density can help. the problem is that density can also be expensive and when you build higher buildings than, you know, the cost per square foot does tend to go up. on the other hand, you know, it also can reduce the cost of living in places. but other cities are certainly looking at houston. there's been a parade of mayors going through houston. i'm talking to you from oregon and portland has been looking at houston's model as well. certainly portland and san francisco are kind of, you know, ground zero for the problem, and i think that there's also more attention to something that houston -- which is execution. you know, it's not about proclaiming housing as a human right. it's about good policy and really rigorous execution and

sending outreach workers out, and you know, not just handing out jackets for the winter. that's fine, but really focusing on getting people into housing. >> all right, "new york times" columnist nick kristof, thank you very much. and of course check out his holiday challenge with the "new york times." what is it called, nick? >> the holiday impact buys or if you google my name and giving guide, you'll see it. >> holiday impact prize. thank you very much, nick. also, this just in, two israeli hostages have been released by hamas and handed over to the red cross just moments ago. israeli defense forces say the two people are now on their way back to israeli territory, and more hostages are expected to be released in the coming hours, so we will be following that here. you can catch all the latest live here on msnbc. final thoughts on all of this, jen. >> i mean, it will be very interesting to watch what's happening next with the hostage

situation. it becomes harder, as you've been talking about this morning, especially with the israeli forces that are being held. >> symone. >> absolutely. i think that folks will be watching, especially over the next week or so, how the conversations evolve. is there more public pressure on prime minister netanyahu from the u.s. government, or does it stay private? >> and there's certainly still u.s. hopes of a bigger deal. the cia director still in qatar. the situation growing more fraught, more tense, a difficult road ahead. >> we'll be following it, we will see you all tomorrow. that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout

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breaking news on "ana cabrera reports." moments ago, the idf announcing it has heard from the