cortez, she was sentenced to 26 years for her role in the crimes. for cher's sister judy, there are only good memories and appreciation for the big sister who followed her adventurous spirit all the way to paradise. >> you're not bitter that she never went to panama, to bocas del toro. >> i'm happy that she went, because i know that she would it meant to her. the piece in her heart of being able to live there. i wouldn't have wanted her to miss that. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline", i'm natalie morales, thanks for watching. >> reporter: happy saturday morning and welcome to morning joe: weekend. let's dive right into the week's top stories.

>> reporter: back now to the death of former secretary of state henry kissinger at the age of 100. msnbc nightly news anchor lester holt reports on the life and legacy of the controversial figure who played a major role in american diplomacy for decades. >> thank you. nice to see you all. >> reporter: he was brilliant, ambitious, controversial, and one of the most influential secretaries of state in american history. >> i think we made for the progress. >> reporter: henry kissinger served richard nixon, gerald ford, and was consulted by presidents of both parties on international issues throughout his life. >> henry kissinger has been a friend of mine. >> reporter: nixon made him a national figure, and together, they reimagined u.s. foreign policy. détente with the soviet union, relations with china, shuttle diplomacy in the middle east. kissinger helped to shape nixon 's policy in vietnam and negotiated in the end to the war. famously declaring success

prematurely just days before the 1972 election. >> we believe that piece is that hand. >> reporter: he was awarded the nobel peace prize. >> nothing that has happened to me in public life has moved me more than this award. >> reporter: though his co-recipient, north vietnam's -- declined the honor. >> four years later, president ford awarded him the medal of freedom. he was a master of pragmatic, big picture diplomacy. but he had his critics, who described him as manipulative and in secure. some called him a war criminal for his role in bombing cambodia and widening the war in vietnam. born in germany in 1923, kissinger's jewish family fled to america as hitler rose to power. he became a u.s. citizen,

served in world war ii, and earned a ph.d. at harvard, where he became a professor. he caught the eye of richard nixon, who made him national security adviser. then, secretary of state. the only person ever to hold both jobs simultaneously. >> there is no country in the world where it is conceivable that a man of my origins could be standing here next to the president of the united states. [applause] >> reporter: but their relationship was complicated, and white house tapes reveal that kissinger sometimes enabled the worst and nixon. >> it was a very curious relationship because we were not personally very close. >> reporter: the night before he resigned in disgrace, nixon asked kissinger to kneel and pray with him. >> and of course it was a crushing event, but i think of that evening as an experience with dignity and it was very

moving. >> reporter: kissinger was no faceless bureaucrat. he was a world renowned celebrity. >> i love your foreign accent. >> reporter: and he loved the spotlight. he was even something of a pop culture icon. after leaving government, he opened his own consulting firm, remaining active and sought after for decades. at 95, eulogizing john mccain's life, kissinger sounded a wistful note about his own. >> like most people, of my age, i feel along aim for what is lost and cannot be restored. >> reporter: henry kissinger was a man of great accomplishment and controversy, but as he once told nbc's barbara walters, he had no regrets. >> if i had to do it over again, i would do it again

substantially the same way, which may meghan reconstructed, and maybe one reason why i'm at peace with myself. >> reporter: nbc's lester holt reporting on marc barnacle joins us today. mike, you look at the scope of henriquez injures influence, 12 presidents he advised, formally or informally, from jfk to joe biden. think about that. and within that, as leicester pointed out, there's a lot of stuff that a lot of people object to. some people call him a war criminal for what happened in cambodia and laos as well. so influential, important, but also a mixed legacy for henry kissinger. >> mixed legacy, but highly brilliant, highly controversial, helped shape american foreign policy through several decades, as you pointed, out several presidents. one glaring error henry casten are, we just heard him say, everything to do all over again, he would do it substantially the same way. well, from january, a 1969, when richard nixon was sworn in

as president and henry kissinger was his national security adviser, and, later his oratorio eight from january of 1969 to 1974, over 20,000 american young people were killed in vietnam. and they discussed the size of a table with -- in paris for a year and a half. and people were getting killed at each and every day. it was totally outrageous. and history doesn't lie and his legacy will endure. his legacy will be honored for several good reasons, obviously. but in history, they will run a reflect the negative aspects as well. >> reporter: you covered him over the years, what about his legacy stands out to you? >> well, and acknowledging what michael just said, what mike barnacle just said, i got to know him very well and just after his 100th birthday, he was at the council of foreign relations giving a talk on

artificial intelligence. so the fact that till his very death he was riding on a.i., and of course, the trip to china this summer in july to see president xi jinping. he was always acting and -- always curious. never stop thinking and work in and creating, really. i do remember a number of years ago with the the think tank here in washington, one of his birthdays in the 90s, and -- was in the audience and that rivalry that went all the way back to, when was a, harvard, columbia, different roles and foreign policy. it was too intellectual giants bahrain, and they began teasing each other in a friendly but -- you were there i think in the audience. and we were all watching this play out.

two man, vigorous intellectually. it was extraordinary the amount of intellectual firepower that he brought to it, that his last book on china was really brilliant. so, you know, he never stopped, and i admired that. as well as he was very sentimental and there was a great sense of humor and a charm, which obviously carried him through those nixon years as well. and devoted to his wife, nancy. >> absolutely. >> reporter: you know, david ignatius, henry was talking about, and you talked about, kissinger as well as dr. prusiensky. i thought it was fascinating looking at lester holt package. it's fascinating that you had henry kissinger, madeleine albright, and dr. brzezinski, all three of their families

chased out of europe by the rise of adolf hitler. all three came to america, just achieving towering heights in american foreign policy. i do want to draw distinction, though, not for purposes of legacy building or legacy smash rain, but just to draw some real distinctions to get more of an insight into who henry kissinger was. the great contrast between kissinger and brzezinski. kissinger was a shape-shifter, constantly. he, you know, he could be what nixon wanted him to be and often was behind the scenes. he could be, if he was talking to hillary clinton or bill clinton, again, change, the iraq war, he supported the iraq

war at the beginning and then moved in another direction. and then, of course, he -- jared kushner talk to him constantly in the trump administration. so, he could move politically. he was a master tactician, politically. whereas dr. brzezinski was, well, dr. brzezinski. he told you what he thought whether he liked it or not. he was extraordinarily blunt. but i will just say, and i will say perhaps this is because i've studied brzezinski's legacy, i think on the big question about the soviet union volyn, i think, and others have said this, kissinger was the pessimist, brzezinski was the optimist. brzezinski got that right. the big question of their time,

he got right. but kissinger again, kissinger continued in public service on the sidelines for 50 years after he left the white house because, again, he just was very skilled had ingratiating himself with leaders. >> there was a part of henry kissinger, joe, that was a quarter. he loved being with the powerful. he loved advising them. he was good at it. people listened to what he had to say. people from my boss, catherine graham, two presidents over the years were extraordinarily attentive to everything that kissinger said or road, and often, it was very much focused. he was a man for all seasons. whatever the political moment was, henry kissinger had

something useful and relevant to say about it. one striking point of comparison with -- brzezinski, is iraq. brodzinski with -- another national security adviser were almost alone among foreign policy leaders insane this doesn't make sense. this is a mistake for the united states. kissinger went along with it, supported it, as did most people in foreign policy establishment. he speak didn't and scowcroft in. and i thought that was a telling moment. just to say one of the thing about kissinger. his legacy is so full of controversy. i've always thought that just as you were saying in setting up your piece, he was one of those great statesman who came out of the ruin of europe in the second world war. he had a passion for stability.

he believed that stability and itself was a prize that the united states as a superpower should seek. and that made him in some ways a moral. if stability is your primary goal, you are willing to tolerate a lot of unpleasantness, civilian death along the way. but, the no question, joe, he is a man who shape the world that we live in. -- >> reporter: coming up, our conversation with a retired conservative judge jay michael luttig, who cowrote a new york times opinion piece titled the trump threat is growing. lawyers must rise to meet the moment. with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv?

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jay michael luttig. who served on the united states court of appeals for the fourth service. he now serves on the board for

-- i want to get into your piece. explaining the need for the new organization in an opinion piece for the new york times that you cowrote with fellow board members jordan causeway, and former congresswoman, barbara. the title? the trump threat is growing, lawyers must ri to meet this moment in a right quote, should mr. trump return to the white house he will arrive with lawyers and advisers, who like him, are determined not to be thwarted again. the society for a conservative legal movement has failed to respond in the period of crisis. you continue, more alarming is the growing crowd of grifters, frauds, and calm and willing to subvert the constitution, and longest established constitutional privileges for expediency. the lawyers are increasingly coming to the new normal. for a lawyer who swear to uphold the constitution, this is an indictment on the profession. any movement that can ferment such a constitutional

abdication and attract a sufficient number of lawyers willing to abdicate its unlawful causes is ripe for a major reckoning. we must rebuild the conservative legal movement that supports and defense american democracy. the constitution, and the rule of law, and that incentivizes and promotes those lawyers who are prepared to do the same. so there was time not long ago, judge luttig, where everything you wrote would seem obvious. so obviously would not have to read it in that new york times, or go to an organization to proclaim these things. but here we are, and it gets one of the major concerns about the trump administration. which is that the guardrails would be gone. the people who understand how washington works and in fact respect the constitution at a very baseline level would not be around. and it would look more like the crew that was more around donald trump after the election in 2020. leading up to january 6th, what are your specific concerns here? >> thank you for having me on with you this morning. for reasons that we all know,

reasons that are entirely related to the former presidents effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election and his conduct and behavior in the three years since then, the causes of our times are america's democracy and the rule of law. and as we say and our essay in the new york times, these are righteous causes to be sure. for years now, our democracy and our rule of law have been under malicious attack. frankly, by the former president and his republican allies. and today as a consequence of american democracy, and the rule of law are in peril. it would be fair to say, i, think that today these foundational pillars of our society are faltering under the weight of these malignant

attacks. the legal profession is uniquely positioned, and obligated, obligated to defend our democracy and our rule of law. we in the legal profession taken oath to support and defend the constitution and the rule of law, and we at the new society for the rule of law do not believe that the legal profession has acquitted itself well over the past years when our democracy in a rule of law had been under attack. and as a result, we decided that it is time for a new legal movement generally but in a particular and conservative legal movement that will preserve, protect, and defend americans democracy, the constitution, and the rule of law in the years ahead. we believe that lawyers are

obligated to take positions on the issues of our democracy and the rule of law. and in particular, the constitutional and other legal excesses of the former president, and that's what we intend to do. >> judge luttig, this is an admirable and necessary exercises that you are performing hair but what do we do about general kelly the, former chief of staff that raises issue. what do we do about this? general kelly spoke out quite strongly, and quite articulately in describing the danger to democracy that donald trump presents on a nearly hourly basis, and the thought of it going back into the oval office frightened general kelly, a man right by a whole lot. what do we do about the fact that when he speaks, when you speak, it seemingly just people who turn the page and move on.

what do we do about making it stick? >> your question goes to the former president virulent escalation of his vicious and violent attacks recently on his political opponents and on the institutions of law and democracy in our country. the intent and purpose and effect of these attacks is to de-humanize the individuals and de-legitimize our democratic and legal institutions in the eyes of the american people. all for the purposes of his primary campaign for the republican party nomination and then his 2024 campaign for the presidency. this is all very conscious, very deliberate of the former president, his maga followers and the large swaths of what is

now very clearly his republican party. admire him for this dehumanization and the legitimization. so he knows what he is doing and he is galvanizing his base through this violent rhetoric. this is what his supporters want to hear. and of course the former president is successful in dehumanizing his opponents and delegitimizing our institutions and anyone who disagrees with him on anything, millions of americans no longer believe in american democracy. our elections and the institutions of our democracy and law. and today we see to no surprise that the former president has viciously attacked both the federal and the state courts and even the individual judges who are presiding over his case. what do we do about it?

there is nothing that we can do other than what we have been doing and are doing except we need, frankly, republicans to join the chorus that our very democracy and our rule of law in america is in peril and it is in peril because of the conduct and the violence political rhetoric of the former president. but today? it most republicans have stood silent. when >> you lead me to my next question, judge luttig, what would you say to those republicans who know better? who went to this country's finest law schools. harvard, yale, you name it. know that they're doing this for the constitution and not to a man. or even to a new speaker of the house. mike johnson. a constitutional lawyer who on

a constitutional basis led the effort to overturn the 2020 election. privately they said they would do this to get elected to stay in power and relevant. what would be your message to republican leadership who have gone along for the right here? >> i have appealed to them based on their oath of office. to support and defend the constitution. today there is no evidence that that has had any impact whatsoever. but i would continue to do that. and then i believe that the political world should put pressure now on the republican party in particular and the republican officials that are in office at the moment to place party beneath constitution and the oath that is put their oath and their

country ahead of their party affiliation. as to those who are not in office today, i would appeal to them on their, to their molar senses. of duty and obligation to their country. and asked them to think about and appreciate the campaign that the former president is now running on to become the next president of the united states. >> up next, hunter biden agrees to testify publicly before the house of oversight committee. the republican chairman now, now wants him to talk behind closed doors he! i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on

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committee, but only if it is televised. he wants to do it in public, preferably nude, in a hot tub. smoking unfiltered cigarettes with a hook or. [laughter] his legal team wants him to testify in the open, but republicans do not want that. they don't want it on tv. they say we if we do not do it behind closed doors, how are we supposed to make stuff up? [laughter] >> that's it! >> it's not even a joke. >> that is it! they have been trying to make things up, and then blaming the media for not reporting the things that they have made up. and so again, everybody said that they wanted this in the public. everybody has asked. what does hunter have to buy hide? he now wants to testify publicly because i think he is tired of all of the lies, he is tired of all the insinuations. he wants to testify publicly, again, let's underline this fact. these republicans that have been asking for this for months,

four years? they finally got it. and they do not want it. do you know why? because the dog never knows what to do when it finally catches the car and in this case, you know, they just do not have the facts on their side. they're going to lose. >> and all those difficulties that jimmy kimmel was pointing to, in hunter's life, mental health problems and addiction issues, he has written about in his book. so they can read that as well. let's bring in msnbc contributor, mike barnacle. former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer, she is co-host of the msnbc podcast, how to win 2024 with clare and nbc news national affairs analyst, john is with us. >> i have quoted some lyrics before on this show but never has the opening line of send in

the clowns bin so appropriate, when these republicans begging for hunter biden's testimony and get it and now they say they don't want it publicly, isn't it rich? clowns. >> jimmy kimmel nailed it, he nailed it, if he testifies in public they cannot make it up behind closed doors, so here is hunter biden's deal. he goes to congress, he responds to congress, to the committee, and says yes i will testify, i will testify in public, you can put me under oath, ask me anything you want, ask me anything and i will reply in public in front of tv cameras. let's go, let's get it done, and what happens? predictably because they are a bunch of frauds on the committee. we cannot do that. we have to close the doors. we literally can make stuff up when we leave the committee room and speak to fox news. >> you can't see it! they want the public to see this mike. what does that say?

>> it's like colonel just up in a few good men. they cannot handle the truth! that is their problem. they cannot handle the truth, it goes against the narrative that they have established and try to establish every day for months, and months, and months. congressman coleman especially, some of the things that he says on tv are absolutely fraudulent, he makes it up and they can't make it up if it is in public and we all watch it. >> hunter called their bluff. he said okay i will testify, but i want everyone to hear it. but also, this committee hasn't even pretended it has anything on joe biden itself. which ultimately is the goal. to find the head of the biden crime family as they call it, implicated in some scandal. james comer says they got a lot of smoke, which they have created, they are billowing smoke on their own. but no fire! they're not even pretending that they have evidence that joe biden did something! >> this is what happens when

maga comes into, or floods into reality. you see it in court rooms where a grand jury has handed back indictments for president. the best example that they're scared of was 2015, october 2015 hillary clinton testifying before the benghazi committee. the 11 best hours of the presidential campaign. she's like, what else do you have? that is what they are scared of. and they have from, you know it's been going on for ten years. from the benghazi hearings, to the special counsel that trump appointed that looked at hillary's emails for five years in the justice department, to what comer is trying to concoct in these hearing rooms, they were trying to manufacture falsehoods that they had faulted politically, and they can't ever get it over the line. >> there's also this element. political hardware act with hunter biden. you have read these stories,

we've all talked about them over the last few months where we read these stories. hunter biden's offense. abby and hunter going off. the white house going, we would rather not have that. okay the president loves his son but how bad do you like that going off. just staying quiet. so the call the bluff is a dramatic gesture. i'm gonna remember this, get on national television. can you imagine? it's not just going in and performing well that would be a huge triumph but even better, just watching the committee back away the way they have now. expose themselves. the committee has no clothes here. the emperors have no clothes. and for the biden campaign it must be the, white house might be a little bit of like, maybe. hunter biden on what they're doing. maybe they won the offense because they knew, or suspected, that this would be the outcome? >> that's always better when you are controlling the situation. when you will have agency, or taking action, and like they did. action,i think hunter testifyid

mika noted, most of the things that we've heard before. because he has written about it books, he has been an interview. is he sitting at the witness table, and republican members of congress giving him a hard time about very tough things in his life. that is not gonna be good for them. >> the book is just, if you think about what is in the book. it is just hard to imagine. it's hard to imagine anything more horrifying than the things that he has admitted to in that book. so what can happen on the stand, in the way of the committee room. >> the thing that the committee room should be most afraid of is that hunter has done damage himself. self inflicted damage that hunter has done to himself is awful. and he will cop to it, he will talk about, it the damage that he has done to himself, i'm sure, is quite familiar to a whole host of families in this country. >> and this is another moment where republicans have talked themselves into a corner. they have promised themselves for so long to go after hunter

biden, go after the so-called, biden crime family. they have forced their hands. their base demands us. and if they want to ward off challenges from further to the right, they have to deliver, this even if it ends up blowing up in their faces. they will accuse them. they will have an excuse why it did not work, they will have to try. coming up, a group of women are suing the state of texas after being denied what they call medically necessary abortion care! their story is next! their story is next! at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. quality. movement. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd.

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texas. where a group of women is suing over what they say are the harmful impacts of the states abortion law. that law, which is one of the most restrictive in the country was able to go into effect after the repeal of roe v. wade. the plaintiffs claim that they were denied what they called medically necessary abortion care. and now the case is headed to the state supreme court. morning joe reporter, daniela perot bravo joins us with more on this. danielle, of the seems important! >> good morning. the group of women leading this lawsuit will make clear some of the abortion exceptions in texas. the only abortion cases where there is live for, death or the mother's threatens. and a lot of these women say the law isn't clear enough for their doctors to interpret. and they were denied abortions despite being at risk. that case started with five plaintiffs in march, but recently added 20 pregnant

women affected by the states ban along with two doctors. only a year ago, one of the newest plaintiffs considered herself strongly antiabortion. she says that she never thought she would be in this position. but that all changed when she heard the news of her baby's fatal condition from her doctor 12 weeks in. >> i was leaking spinal fluid. the second one being that they blood from the knee down. we knew that. so there wasn't anything different with that. he was my saying one kidney, and they did not have the bladder. >> you have the mri, you've got the results, and then he spoke to a doctor? >> if kim even can make it to term, the child will never see the outside of a hospital. but she is at a higher risk of stillbirth, or miscarriage, and we do not know what that could cause to her. so if it was my son, i would want him to be with god now,

sooner than later. we know that that is what he was saying. he said, you could have her coal miners and she could give you a name of a clinic in new mexico, that used to be here in dallas. so the procedure was two days, the second day after they, you've got through a recovery. my husband was able to meet me at the door to help me get to the car. and there was protesters after. he said mom, dad. you guys could've been such a beautiful family. hearing that, you are just like, sir, you have no idea what we did and what we have been through. but i mean, we have judge people to so we are no better because i have said before, we have been so anti abortion and then, it almost hit you.

oh my god i was just like him. and i did not know the situations. >> other plaintiffs in the case say the language of the state ban also seems to be causing fear and confusion. and what the doctors can and cannot say to patients. they are avoiding conversations around the word abortion. listen to what one of the plaintiffs leading the case as told me. >> positions, they get a lot of medical training. they know how to treat patients. they are trained to not wait until their patients are on the verge of death before they provide treatment. yet because they are not trained in how to read these really and ambiguous statutes, they do not know. is this the point that i can intervene? does the patient have to be showing signs of infection? do they have to be literally on death's door? we do not know. and so we are trying to get the courts to clarify. >> so mika, while this specific

suit isn't gonna restore abortion access in texas. clarifying abortion exceptions could make a big difference in treatment office, and care for women. the supreme court will hear oral arguments tomorrow morning. meanwhile, cyril similar cases have been filed in three other states. >> definitely follow those cases were as. they seem like they can have a lot of implications. and that interview with that pregnant, formerly pregnant mother, daniela. get that up on know your value and extended if you haven't already planned to do that. that was incredible. that was really a robust look at the problem. thank you so much. morning joe reporter, daniela pierre bravo. coming up, the best selling book on racism in america is now a netflix documentary! he joins us with oscar-winning director, roger rots williams for a new look at the films from the beginning. morning joe will be right back!

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new documentary entitled stamp from the beginning. a film is on the award-winning book at the same name. here is part of the trailer which contains some very disturbing images. what happens when we tell these myths about who black people are and what their role in american society is? >> it is crucial that we pay attention to it. >> the story, it's all about what is wrong with black people. >> has so many real social ramifications. because of the amount of people who have bought into the mid. >> if you make us the threat, then you remove our humanity. >> it justifies all kinds of horrific actions. >> how are we intentionally

questioning what is being given to us, and what are we are in just a? >> we who have suffered in this, are now saying to you. civilized yourself. >> powerful! joining us now, the author of stamped from the beginning. eva max candidate, and the director of the documentary, academy award when and roger was williams. i will start with, you talk about bringing your book to life. what was that like? >> it was a three-year process and i was really excited about the film being inducted, i should say the book being adapted into a film because this history is something that everyone should know. everyone should know the history of anti-black racist ideas. who created them, how they created them, and how they are enduring and our society. >> roger, when you, as because you, are our --

when you took on this project, particularly in the era we see racism and other needs of the many people. other ways of defeating people. whether you're black, whether you do, it's whether you're latino. did you have in my hands the message of the book and the timing of it because we are right in the middle of this kind of climate where you can see the documentary and pick up the news and it's almost the same story? >> yes. well i took this on after the murder of george floyd because there were many americans questioning what is going on? and to see the massive protests all over the world, i was like, i have got to do something. and as a filmmaker what can i do? i can make a movie about it. so i read how to be an anti racist, which was number one on that new york times bestseller

list. then i read the fans, which is number six or seven. and i said, okay i'm gonna take on this 541 page book and make a documentary. crazy. >> now, ibram kendi, you are able to go from the top of the new york times list which you knew was going to toggle you for a controversy. and really keep going forward. and i think that people don't understand, and your book brought it all most of these times, the subtleties that they do. i always tell joe here on the show that, as i was coming along, you would see in the newspaper a guy who represented three people and they would say, the influential so and so said so and so. if i said some, the controversial all-star. who determines controversial and influential is the subtleties that you talk about, that we have always had to fight. >> indeed, and in many ways i'm not allowed to just be a scholar. i'm not allowed to be a historian. i am viewed as someone who is engaged in a political work.

and indeed, all scholarship is political but not all scholars are called political. >> correct. >> roger you just hinted where i wanted to go with you, you said the challenges of trimming down the material into a documentary sized project. that is of course extraordinary work, but also, there's just so much here. there is so much sad, just a sad reality that there is just so much racism to try to be able to distill. how did you do it? >> i did it using every tool available to me as a filmmaker. animation, visual effects, graphics, using women. it's all black women academics in the film which is a statement in itself. so it was basically bringing together all the elements to tell the story of going over hundreds of years. we are starting in portugal, and then 14 44. and we are going to the present day, so, and also making it

accessible. making it so that people, the whole thing is like making it accessible but not diluting what is in the scholarship. >> that does it for the first hour of morning joe: weekend, we are not done yet. more of the week's top stories right after this break! after this break largest national provider network. only from unitedhealthcare. i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too. so, i use my freedom unlimited card.

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morning joe: weekend! let's drop right into more of the week's top stories!

the new york times report that you are talking about is reporting that israel knew hamas was planning a wide scale assault a year before the october 7th terrorist attack. and they know details. according to the paper, israeli officials obtained approximately 40-page document which they code name jericho wall. it outlined point-by-point exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1200 people. the times writes, israeli military and times officials dismiss the plan as aspirational. considering it too difficult for hamas to carry out. earlier this morning, israeli defense forces responded to the report. writing a statement, quote, the idf is currently focused on eliminating the threat from the terrorist organization hamas. questions of this kind will be looked into adelaide's stage.

that will add to the list of questions that they are putting off to a later date. what was benjamin netanyahu doing? was he distracted? why the delay in the response? if something is happening 40 minutes away, women were getting raped, babies are getting shots, people are running out of their homes, why is it taking seven hours? it seems like, how do you not see this as a choice not to respond? at this point? >> i've got to say the statements, we'll talk about it later, that would work if it were the united states and we're not depending on funding from another country. but, i don't mean to be surprised, anybody who watches the show, i was a strong supporter of israel and congress as well. and i would be the first person in congress that says, wait a second. we are giving more money so this government to execute a war? when we have a guy over there

that has an approval may rating may be in the teens? is hated around the region? is not respected around the world? >> has some indictments? >> this does not make funding for israel any easier that netanyahu is doing everything he can to hold on when he knew this attack, his people knew this attack was coming for a year! it's not good enough! from members of congress on the hill, is it? they want to say, we'll talk about this later. where fighting o war right now. you guys just butt out. >> you can't have funding and a huge contractor like the united states, and not expect a few questions, this kind of question in particular from this reporting. it's already been so complicated in figuring out what funding would go to israel, but when it would go to the israel, because of the split between the parties, and tension between the parties, and republicans, and democrats, and what they want to see. if you think about before october 7th, where the united

states was going and thinking about israel, more importantly thinking about netanyahu, president biden and vice president kamala harris were constantly talking about israel 's democracy that was backsliding. alluding to the idea that they needed to be somewhat to surpass netanyahu. still they'll double back to that. more questions about what was netanyahu doing? and he is facing a lot of pressure within his own country. just heard from that brother of the hostage, they are going to continue to ask the questions, get all the hostages out, and now at this. why were to helping these people before these things happen? >> the question, or the statements, we're going to wait till later for every question that we asked? the unfortunate problem here, and why it falls flat, rings untrue, is that the answers to these questions would help everybody in israel, in the u.s., supporting us moving forward. you can't leave these! >> and again, even strong supporters. >> just bad answers. >> even strong supporters of israel in the united states,

and i put myself right up there. we are not blind! >> no! >> we can watch a television. we can see what is happening in the west bank. the west bank is becoming more chaotic by the day! what does that mean? it means that we get further away from the two state solution which netanyahu has fallen against for over a decade now. that means that there is a possibility, if you are a strong supporter, a strong supporter of israel that you are now looking at a two front war. possibly a three front war? the idf has their hands full with gaza. and frank, i just have to, say you and i have talked through the years. privately we have spoken about your family. we've spoken about the holocaust, how it has impacted your family, how it is impacted so many families. i spoke with a man. i won't say his name here but, that a lot of people know, that was practically in tears talking about how his

generation. his generation let down those past generations that survived the holocaust, got to israel, they would see the numbers burned in the arm and then when they tried to get their grandfathers, or their grandmothers or fathers or mothers to talk about it, they would start to talk and then stop and go, that's all right. we are here now. we are safe now. and this guy said, i feel like our generation let's all of those people lose side of the holocaust out by allowing this to happen and now we find out that it is actually worse than we ever imagined. i want to ask you, this is extraordinarily personal. just tell me about this headline? tell me about the story? how do you feel? how does your family feel about this? >> one of the essential

promises of zionism, and the state of internal, is that it would protect people from the occurrence of programs, and the discussion of the holocaust. and the other incompetence displayed in the face of this sort of threat, and to know that it was coming for so long. and do so little to prepare. and in fact, we also know, that the battalions of troops were shifted to the west bank where settlers were provoking tension with the palestinians in the west bank, and so in order to protect netanyahu's coalition, israel security would sacrifice. >> explain this to our viewers. because we brought this up earlier, netanyahu did not want to bother with gaza because that did not involve him politically, the west bank, when he gave license to extremists to set up illegal settlements and let me just say,

illegal settlements? he know that he was going to cause unrest and politically, him trying to provoke the west bank and undermined the palestinian authority, what did that do? and help them politically with the religious extremists. so he had a political reason, and israel is no, that's for ignoring hamas who said we want to kill all jews! and we want to destroy israel! >> the entire arc of netanyahu's career is self preservation at the expense of the national interest. that was true in the demonstrations in the controversy over the court that was leading up to the war and it's actually true in the course of the prosecution of this war, netanyahu in the early days of this war had an opportunity to form a coalition, a genuine coalition government where he ditched, we would ditch the religious zealots and the messianic settlement movements that are part of this government, and form a government of the center that

was much more confident. the foreign minister, the national security adviser, all of these people who populate the netanyahu administration are incompetent. they do not have the capacity to pull off the diplomatic and game, the sort of project that is required to build gaza in the wake of this and the government has consistently sacrificed any sort of thinking about the endgame in order to preserve this cockamamie, dangerous coalition. >> extremist coalition, and yet, it's not like we were not hearing from people inside of israel that netanyahu had pushed out secular jews who were extraordinarily professional. who had built up the reputation of the idf and in exchange for bringing in, well i would just say, people that were called clowns by israeli insiders. and we see the consequence of

this, the consequence of focusing on the west bank for political purposes, and that consequence for the number of religious extremists, and kicking out the professionals that had done such an extraordinary job and defending israel priscilla. >> yes, there are far-right appointees and netanyahu's cabinet who u.s. officials told us they view as especially problematic, and the viewers, these are people who come from the settler movement. there is basically no hope for peace as long as you have people who are encouraging and arming settlers in the west bank who are part of the cabinet and u.s. officials have told us that they do not feel netanyahu can make the right decisions for his country and work in tandem with the u.s. on the goals of this war. as long as he is constantly looking ever his shoulder at what the right wing members of his cabinet are wanting. >> building on that, what does this story mean to the biden administration in terms of

future support? i know they're gonna support israel but are more strings attached now because of the sheer, other incompetence of that government? >> i think more strings are attached for numerous reasons. the competence of the government, the complete and other lack of responding to this attack once it began to unfold. and you see the biden administration start to distance itself more and more from israel and start to put more conditions on u.s. support. they did not do this when israel began launching its attack in the north. they were very careful to not publicly criticize. they sort of indicated where they were comfortable, but very carefully this week they said we do not support an operation in the south until israel presents us with a plan to protect civilians, to make sure that more people are displaced, and as the officials said this week, israel could not launch the types of attacks that it was launching in northern gaza because they could not sustain that kind of humanitarian disaster. and even yesterday at the

briefing, john kirby was saying, we want to see a plan from israel before they go into the south. if they, you know, they hope the pause would extend a couple more days and lead to more permanent cessation of hostilities, so they have been positioning themselves to distance themselves from israel if they start launching the types of airstrikes that they were launching in the north. they just cannot sustain that, they cannot support israel. and not only that, now you have a number of senate democrats talking about conditioning aid to israel. i think biden is trying to use all these factors to pressured netanyahu to ignore the right wing of his cabinet, focus on bringing hostages home and find a way to bringing it to an end. >> coming up, we will be joined by the father of an american mother of three who was released yesterday by hamas after more than 50 days as a hostage! morning joe is coming right back! back

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released leon benin from captivity. the 49-year-old israeli american mother three and her husband, of the, four of deducted in their home in a kibbutz during the hamas terrorist attacks on october 7th. aviva remains held hostage by hamas the morning after the release we spoke with her father. here is part of that conversation. >> and mr. benin thank you for being with us this morning we are so happy to hear that your daughter's home safely. another you've had a chance to speak with her what can you tell us about her condition today? >> first of all, thank you for having me. i am elated to report that her physical condition appears to be pretty good. considering the ordeal that she went through,. unfortunately that has not been the case with other hostages who were released lately. of course, we are very thankful. >> mr. beinin, has she been

able to share with you yet -- i understand that you want to give her all the time it's base that she needs about what you want to get through these best 50 days or so. >> the me -- first of all, liat is in pretty good spirits. we, the family who met her, included her three children, my wife and i. her sister flew in from oregon. she was here, as well as david's brother and mother. there was a substantial group of people who met her and it was a very emotional very exciting. it was great. on the other hand we are reminded that a beeb this still held in gaza so it is a matter of great consternation for us and it is difficult to deal with both emotions at the same time.

it is a challenge. >> mr. beinin, you and your wife have been part of the club that no one wants to belong to. a parent of a child who has been kidnapped and is being held hostage. can you tell us, can you recreate what would you do with you're wife each and every day that he knew your daughter was being held hostage? how did you occupy yourself? how did you continue to go on? >> first of all liat and aviv we are members of the kibbutz neo-. the members were eventually evacuated to a hotel in -- my wife and i were there for a good part of the time, mostly my way factually i had done two trips to the states to meet with senators and congressman. administration officials trying to keep this story in the

limelight. and i believe that we succeeded in doing that. so, running back and forth between israel in the states. running around washington was a labor of love something that was required to be done in order to work with politicians and administration officials. trying to come to a resolution of this hostage crisis. specifically for my daughter but as far as president biden was concerned, his interest was in all of the hostages. i have been busy. >> yes. our understanding is you spoke with the president. did you speak with president biden? if you did so, please tell us what he had to say. what your feelings were, and

are, about him and the role of the united states government? >> we spoke with president biden twice. of course, the discussion we had the president expressed his -- it is hard to say how he perceives the attack on israel. the depth of the depravity, the horrific news of the attack, he expressed his solidarity with the family of the hostages taken into gaza. he expressed his desire to release all of the hostages. it was the number one priority of his administration. he went on to explain that from his point of view in the attack on israel was also an attack on the united states. seeing as it may, he saw the attack as an inflection point

in history. he said that what was in the middle east is not what will be. and then the president elucidated his political goals following hostilities. to cause the groups to come into negotiation and to engage with negotiations to implement a two-state solution. which is fine. the second time we spoke with the president was to greet us upon the transfer of our daughter from hamas to egyptian hand. again, he expressed his heartfelt feelings about having a daughter as a hostage. he clearly identifies with our predicament. together with that, he also

mentioned that the work is still not finished. we have to secure aviv > the father of liat beinin, so glad, again, that your daughters. home we hold out hope that aviv will be released safely. >> coming up this morning, elon musk lashes out a major advertisers? it was something, let me tell you! he was talking about advertisers looking to boycott acts. did he ever lash out! cnbc's andrew resource and will join us on the heels of that explosive interview that he had with elon musk. you are watching morning joe, we will be right back.

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cnbc squawk box hoaxed, our good friend interest sorkin. andrew, manage our. a very busy man at the new york times. deal signed yesterday, an incredible list of gas you interviewed personally. we have got to start with elon musk. give us a little background, a little color how it came together, let us know what you're talking about. >> look, he came to do an interview. the first interview, it was planned a long time ago but this was really his first interview since the comments he made on twitter which had gone viral, have been condemned around the world is being antisemitic. advertisers were fleeing the platform. of course, he then made that trip to israel. he literally flew back from israel, he went to texas, and then came to new york and sat with us. it was a remarkable conversation in so far at one moment he left me speechless. we will show you that in just a

moment. it was also one of the first times he has ever apologized publicly, not only about the comment that he made but about anything. if you cover elon musk, you know elon musk, he is not somebody who expresses remorse. to actually see him do that was quite something. i know the whole conversation, although people are focused on the advertiser piece, we will show you that, but this is an opportunity to see in his mind. -- the biographer who has been at the same anytime spoke about the many elon musk's. the thoughtful, einstein, next steve jobs version of elon musk. the demon motive elon musk. the depressed mosque. i think you got to see all of that. >> the moment andrew talking about, big advertisers fred x and he basically said, bring it on. >> to give a little bit more contact, one of the other people that was interviewed yesterday that i interviewed with bob iger, ceo of disney.

i said to bob iger, you stopped advertising on x. why? he said, look, that comment that elon musk has said about what he called the actual truth was something that upset him and he didn't think it was the right platform for him. i thought elon musk would say he wanted to get bob back, he wanted to get disney back on the platform. here is what he had to say. >> this had been said online, there was calls for the decision, advertisers, we talked about bob iger -- >> i hope it stops. don't advertise. >> you don't want to advertise? >> no. >> what do you mean? >> if someone is gonna try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, grow [bleep] yourself. >> but -- >> grow [bleep] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> he specifically invoked bob iger's name. playing the victim as though

they are just arbitrarily deciding not to -- he said actual collapse, and when it does it will be the fault of the advertisers. that the planet will see that it's the fault of the advertisers. i push back on him and said, look, a lot of the planet may look and say, elon, it is your fault. these are tigers don't have control being there. we had a long discussion about what it means to be liked or disliked. he says he doesn't care, he said bring on hate. we got into a conversation about trust. how much does it matter to be trust? given the power in the influence that he has, not just when it comes to acts, he says cars, he had the confidence to get into his vehicle. spacex deals with government. starlink is a communication device that is being used in the middle of wars. russia, ukraine, israel. it is fascinating to see all sides of it. >> all of that genius, so often overshadowed by stuff we saw yesterday. andrew also spoke with jp oh -- ceo morgan diamond.

during that conversation dimon appeared to endorse a publican presidential candidate. take a look. >> what do you think of the two leading candidates right now? >> oh god, i'm not gonna tell you. [laughs] >> you're not gonna tell me? >> i did come out and make a night donation to nikki haley. you have a very liberal democrat. i urge you to help nikki haley as well. get a choice on the republican side that might be better than trump. >> well, he has been advising her in a way. >> i think they've actually only had one or two conversations. i think he looks at the situation, i don't know, ultimately, he is historically a democrat, or voted as a democrat. i don't know if he dislike biden audience off but i know that he dislikes trump. we saw also mentioned by the way that trump is going after him this morning on truth social. as you might imagine. >> interesting, the business community seems to have found its alternative and it is nikki

haley. >> if there is a horse they are betting on, that is the horse. still ahead on morning joe, an exclusive look on what is driving the latino vote ahead of the 2024 presidential election. nbc's morgan radford will join us to break down brand-new polling. you are watching morning joe, we will be right back. k. for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management. only at vanguard you're more than

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a inflation in the economy, like it is for so many voters. that is according to a new survey taken of 3000 latino voters taken this bunts by nino's u.s.. msnbc anchor morgan bradford got an exclusive look at the early numbers and joins us now to walk through them. morgan, good morning, what are you saying? >> hey there, willie. this is really interesting once we get down into the details. first, this poll makes it very clear just how important jobs and the economy are to latino voters. you can see here if you look at this graph, 54% of latinos ranked inflation in the rising cost of living as their top three issues. that outranks things like health care, crime, and even immigration. when you ask which party will be best at actually addressing all of these top issues more than a third of latinos today democrats will be best at handling those issues. interestingly, only 47% of voters approve of the job that president joe biden is doing, currently, in the white house. which is a 17% drop in approval

if you look at that number just from last year. finally, this is really interesting, willie, if the election were held today a majority of latino voters, 51% if you look at this graphic, leaning either towards voting for president biden, would probably vote for president biden, or are definitely voting for president biden. that is an 18-point lead in voter preference over former president, donald trump. what does all of this mean? we spoke to latinos in key swing states as well as the vice president of the latino vote initiative in the u.s., take a listen. >> one of the issues you care about most? >> for us the biggest impact that we see is the price of gas. it's fluctuation is crazy. it is becoming a little bit unaffordable. >> how do you feel like president biden's handling the economy? >> i think we can see the inflation, there are a lot of people who complain about interest rates. >> when the economy is not doing great, when you support small businesses, you help the local communities, also. i haven't seen that.

>> if you had to list to top three issues, what would they be? >> gun violence, climate change, abortion rights. >> the economy isn't your number one issue? >> not for me, personally. i'm very focused on the social issues. >> neither one of them deserve my bell. i almost feel like i should go some of the row. maybe someone else will come up. >> ultimately, hispanic voters are sending a wake up call to both parties. to democrats the good news is that hispanic see a lot of alignment in terms of their values with democratic positions. here, it is important to know that democrats need to do a better job connecting with these voters on economic issues and that they cannot rest on their laurels. of course it is always important to peel back the curtain in terms of how these polls are conducted. this commissioner poll was commissioned by o'neill's u.s., the largest latino nonprofit advocacy organization here in the country. it was conducted by the

national firm bs p research, which mainly focuses on democratic polling and the founder and major researcher is matt parental who previously worked for the biden campaign back in 2020. of course, all of this matters because 34.5 million if manic americans will be eligible to vote in the 2024 election. meaning latinos are still the fastest growing racial or ethnic voting bloc. >> so interesting. the national numbers are fascinating. these races, as we talked about every day, will be decided in a few swing states. what does the numbers look like there? >> i will tell you what is really interesting. they actually looked at seven key states that are expected to play a big role in the 2024 election. for the majority of them seen of voters and six of the states, as you look there on the graph on your screen, biden would be the candidate they are most likely running for and the only state where biden falls behind trump is in florida where just 39% of latinos say they plan to support the current presidents reelection. if you look at the comparisons, our msnbc exit polls actually

show biden a 53% of latino voters back in 2020. it is interesting to look at the hypothetical match ups there. >> jen, let's look at these numbers from your old job, inside a presidential campaign. how would you be feeling if you are the biden campaign looking at some of the data? you see what we see, nationally anyway, among all groups. the economy is number one, also they're both a little -- about both candidates. >> honestly, these numbers are better than expected for biden. i did not expect the reelect number to be as high as it is. it is not surprising that economy arises as the most important issue. immigration is further down. i think people misunderstand how latino voters feel about immigration. like all americans, they are mostly concerned about the economy. that it's pretty far down on the list. he has to prove to them that he can get things done. i do think health care popping as an issue this week is really important. that is a very big issue with

patina voters. protecting a bomb i care has been a way that democrats have helped corral support in the hispanic community before. it is a clear way to deal with costs, right? protecting obamacare. protecting health care costs. the campaign is gonna have to continue to find issues like that where they can prove not just trump's worse, but we have done something to make your life better. we have done something to actually lower cost. >> coming up, our conversation with bestselling authors james patterson and mike rebecca who are helping to promote each other's new books. that is coming up ahead on morning joe weekend. end. isease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

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the age of misinformation on social media platforms and the rise of artificial intelligence. miriam webster selected as its word of the year for 2023, authentic. the dictionary defines

authentic as not false or imitation, and true to one personality, spirit, or character. according to miriam webster, the word saw substantial increase in online searches driven by stories and conversations about a.i.. celebrity culture, social media, and identity. runners up that made the shortlist include deepfake, coronation, dystopian, implode, and rizz, a trendy slang term that means romantic appeal or charm. rizz, okay. so, speaking of writing in order, it was only two months ago advanced selling authors james patterson and mike lupica released their jointly written new york times bestselling book in titled 12 months to live. now, the prolific writers are already out with separately written new novels to each of their series, and they seem to

like each other so much, they're helping promote each other's new books. james patterson and mike lupica join us now. patterson's new book is entitled alex cross must die, the 31st installment in the legendary alex cross series, and lupica's book, entitled robert b. parker's broken trust is the latest in the spencer detective series. first started by robert b. parker 50 years ago. and mike, i'll start with you. we don't often have authors coming on to cross promote each other's books. so, how did this come about? >> they should do that more often. >> you know, as i said the last time we've been on, i've been looking to give back. i want to give back, and they wanted to give somebody a boost. it turned out to be the guy selling more books than me. >> i.c.e. guy. >> so i cleverley thought, well, why don't we cross, alex cross, promote these two books?

so, we've got two of the great, iconic characters in the history of crime fiction. alex cross and spencer, to the point where in the middle of my first spencer novel, i kept wondering if alex krause might be coming out of the bullpen to help him out. >> something for beaters to look forward to. >> oh, wow. yeah. >> thinking about spencer and cross, now, the thing about spencer and cross is to get back to your earlier think, they are authentic. seriously, i mean, they are the kind of cops, alex is the kind of cop that we rely on, and spencer is that kind of private investigator. they are trying to do the right thing. >> i love it. >> we have a code. they both have a code, and it's almost like an old west code of honor, and making things right. and it's just, they are fun characters right now, obviously. >> you are something this morning next to a living legend,

and you are picking up the ball handed to you by a now dead legend, robert b. parker, who we both knew. what's it like, carrying that mantle of bob parker? >> you know, mike, it were bob parker's friends. i can remember bob parker and i used to let us hijack your radio show in boston. it is a tremendous honor. i first bought the got wolf manuscript on -- boylston street when i was in college, and that man's voice was in my head after that. and he became my friends. he was a writing hero of mine, and when i go back and look at my early mysteries, i can see and hear his influence on me. i know how passionate spencer fans are, and i was lucky enough to write to other of his characters, sign randall and jessie stone, but obviously, spencer is the holy grail.

i think his fans will be happy with broken trust. >> having read broken trust, for me, at least, as a reader, mike has brought spencer's voice back, in my opinion. so, i think this is the best spencer in a long time. >> so james -- >> alex cross might. >> yeah. >> up next, kevin bacon, live in our studio, to talk about giving tuesday. a day created over a decade ago. out of the simple idea to encourage people to do good. we'll get back in a moment. back in a moment n, where are you? kevin?!?!?.... hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.

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tuesday, a global movement to get people to give back. when we spoke to actor kevin bacon, one of the advocates leading that effort. here is part of that conversation. >> joining us now in studio are the people leading the charge in that effort, golden globe winning actor, florida pressed, kevin bacon. his organization, six degrees, is launching a yearlong campaign aimed at creating and distributing 40,000 essential need resource kits across the country. kevin, it's so great to see you, as always. so, tell us about these kits. people get involved, they support here, who do they go to? what do they do? >> well, the idea is that there's a certain movie that involves someone coming to a small town too make people dancing again? >> you? >> yeah. >> called footloose, and believe it or, not, i can't

believe i'm saying this, it's the 40th anniversary. >> 40 years! >> yeah. >> wow. yeah. >> so, we took that as an opportunity to come up with this idea of 40,000 kits, and essentially, what happens is in a community, you have and organization, a grassroots organization, that has highlighted people who are in need of basic essentials. it could be children. it could be people that don't have house or a home, and we gather some kind of a backpack or something to hold these kits, we get essential items, so, food items, water, shampoo, things. we then get volunteers from the community to spend, i don't know, a couple of hours just loading these things up. so, it kind of increases

volunteers and giving back. also, a lot of what sixth agrees torque has been about has been about finding grassroots, you know, organizations. not huge, huge charities, but more like small groups and communities, boots on the ground, that are trying to help a people in need. >> you are almost like a clearinghouse, right? you get donations and you find directed targeted places for it to go. >> yes. yes. exactly. so, the idea is to build 40,000 of these in 2024. you know, we are trying to raise money, hopefully, we raise 1 million bucks to get this happening. listen, to me, one of the most exciting pieces of it is the volunteer-ism. giving tuesday, everyone goes, it's got to be dollars and cents, but actually, spending time doing something of a positive nature is, it gives back both ways.

my brother and i have a band, we were out in alexandria, sort of one of the first building kit events that we did. we went out and hung out with these people from this community, built 300 backpacks, coming to kids in the area. and, you know, it's such a light lift, and it feels so good to do, and have such a positive impact. >> and the media impact, yeah. >> so kevin, you said we. who are the we that put together this group, and where were you in your head or in the background or in your life when you figured, we ought to do this, but we. we ought to do this? >> you know, going back, six degrees dot org has been around since 2007. when i came to new york, a suitcase and the dream, trying to be an actor, there was no we. it was just me, you know what i

mean? i was 100% in on kb, my hunger to make money and see my name in lights and all that stuff. that sort of an essential element, i think, of becoming k performer, an actor. we have to have the self involved thing. and at a certain point, i had children and i kind of, you know, grew up and read the newspaper, and i seen that the things that were happening in the world and i thought, wow, i got a step outside of me. you know, a little bit. i looked at paul newman, and what he had done with tomato sauce and pixels and putting all those things. >> sala dressing. >> staring back from the refrigerator, and i thought, that's cool. like, that's something he's taken this incredible gift that

he has on this incredible success he's had, and he's figured out a way to kind of spin in and turn around and market it, and make it into something positive. so, i was kind of scratching my head about what that might be, and i thought, wait a second. six degrees was this silly game. >> i love that you leaned into that. smart embrace. can't afford, it i guess. >> i was hoping it was going to go away, but it never went away. so, i thought, well just embrace the beast, and went and got the domain six degrees dot org. then i said, i don't know how to start a foundation. so, i started talking to smart people. >> and that does it for us. we're back on monday, 60 am eastern, have a wonderful weekend. weekend. this is the katie phang show, live from msnbc world headquarters in new york city. we