war. that means aattacks on military infrastructure in russia. >> and very quickly, admiral, we now know from nbc news that a month after the san francisco summit president xi has not delivered on his promise to restore military to military hot line communications. >> that is very disconcerting. and i worry a lot about ukraine and russia, but we ought to worry even more about a miscalculation between the u.s. and china, say in the south china sea. that hot line is designed to prevent that. china needs to get that in place as they promised our president in san francisco. >> admiral, thank you. dmitri, thank you. i know you have a new book, we'll talk about that coming up as well called "the world on the brink." this does it for today for "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts right now.

good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. a deadlock in congress and a stalemate on the battlefield. the excruciating reality facing ukrainian president zelenskyy as he comes to capitol hill looking for help. could he wind up going home empty-handed? plus, a question the supreme court has never had to answer in the course of american history until now. can the former president face federal prosecution for alleged crimes committed while in office? the massive stakes involved, and the new implications that the court could be ruling to decide things once and for all. and a new nightmare emerging in gaza. word that fully half of the population there is starving. the latest on that and new calls from the heads of multiple global organizations for the u.s. to step up and put a stop to, quote, the humanitarian nightmare taking place. i'll talk to one of the women in charge coming up. but we start with the

ukrainian president, volodymyr zelenskyy in washington to make an urgent in person plea that he's already made twice before that he needs billions more in u.s. aid to win the war against russia. and preserve democracy. he's got the backing of president biden, who he'll sit down with in a little over an hour. but in congress, his words may be falling on deaf ears. after nearly two years of fighting and more than $44 billion worth of u.s. military support alone, both democrats and republicans are increasingly skeptical about sinking more taxpayer dollars into a war with no clear end. here's what house speaker mike johnson had to say after a good meeting he called it a good meeting with zelenskyy, just a little over an hour ago. >> we need clear articulate of the strategy. they have not provided us the clarity and detail that we requested over and over since literally 24 hours after i was handed the gavel as speaker of

the house. so what the biden administration seems to be asking for is billions of additional dollars with no appropriate oversight, no clear strategy to win, and none of the answers i think the american people are owed. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell is covering the white house for us. keir simmons is live for us in moscow. jacqueline alemany for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. william taylor served as u.s. ambassador to ukraine, vice president specializing in europe and russia at the u.s. institute of peace and a u.s. army veteran. thanks to all of you for being here. zelenskyy ultimately got the money he was looking for the past couple of times he came to town. but what about this time, never great when you hear the speaker of the house saying, like, your answers are insufficient. >> that's exactly right, chris. it shouldn't come as a surprise to zelenskyy as this is the refrain that he has been hearing and that democrats have been hearing from republican

lawmakers across capitol hill in the house and both the senate. you had chris murphy on nbc this weekend saying negotiations over this aid were pessimistic and haven't improved since sunday when he made those comments. as we all have been covering, there is increasing skepticism about continuing to provide this aid to ukraine. there hasn't been a lot of satisfaction with the way that weapons and this funding has been spent and then reported back to the u.s. in terms of that spending. and as johnson just said, he's echoing what other republican members are saying to each other and to journalists on the ground and in the halls of congress, which is that there is not a sufficient game plan here and that americans and the biden administration need to start coming to accept the fact that ukraine's ultimately might have to cede some territory to russia. democrats and the administration and some republicans obviously

have not accepted this argument, and are continuing to make the case that by declining to provide this funding to ukraine, that they're only letting putin win and threatening democratic institutions writ large. republicans are trying to pressure democrats into supporting more aid and the bigger more robust package for border security. that's why this package is sort of all jumbled up right now. you're seeing funding for ukraine, israel, the border, and taiwan all lumped into one with democrats and republicans both hoping that each side will make at least some concessions. but democrats walked out of meetings today saying that what they heard from republican senators at least when it comes to that border package is insufficient so far for them to ultimately sign on to any sort of compromise here. >> so, kelly, when speaker johnson says he wants a clear articulation of a strategy that this war can be won by ukraine,

is that something the administration believes it can provide or they believe zelenskyy thinks he can provide because obviously speaker johnson wasn't convinced. >> well, there is certainly a rational and a plan that can be shared, but is it sufficient to meet the political needs of the house speaker. that seems to be where the big gap is. the u.s. can provide some of the military sort of architecture of what ukraine is trying to accomplish and how u.s. dollars and materiel and all the support that the u.s. and our partners in europe and elsewhere have provided, how that is dealing with the fight against russia. but is it enough to answer the questions from some of the most intransgent members who have real concerns about this, and question whether ukraine aid is in the u.s.' best interests. a big test comes this afternoon where the president and president zelenskyy will be able to stand by side side, take questions from reporters and

address the nation and implicit in that is speaking directly to congress and those who do have questions. so, it is a case of what does the house need to hear, and there may be more in the area of accountability and trying to make certain that dollars that are sent are spent carefully at the same time the administration says it is a war zone and there can't always be the kind of oversight and clarity on where every piece of ammunition, equipment, or money is spent in the heat of battle. so there is a willingness to give information, there may be a divide, apparently still a divide on what is satisfactory. chris? >> ambassador, we know from the polls that the american people support for continuing to pump billions of dollars into ukraine, has been waning, obviously now you have another situation with israel and what is happening in gaza. you met with president zelenskyy yesterday. how confident are you that when he's speaking to the american people today, and as kelly

rightfully points out by extension to members of congress, that he can make a strong argument that billions of dollars more is not just throwing good money after bad. >> he can make that argument and has made that argument, chris. you're exactly right. he can say rightfully that he can win, he can push the russians back out of his country, back toward the international borders if -- this is a big if, he gets the support he's asking for from the united states. and president biden is ready to give. and that a bipartisan majority, both the house and the senate, are ready to vote. you all talked about other issues having to do with the border that are on the table and you talked about how the weapons are accounted. those weapons are well accounted for. there is no one that wants those weapons and the ammunition to get to the front line more than ukrainians. so that's well understood. president zelenskyy can make the case, if he gets the long range

weapons in quantity, the volume he's talking about, so he can go deep into occupied territory, that he can win. he can disrupt the russians. they both recognize, both the ukrainians and the russians, that the big armored thrusts, breakthroughs, they're not happening on either side. but what can happen is if president zelenskyy gets what he needs from the long range fires, he can disrupt the russians so that they can't continue to occupy. >> so, keir, russia has been digging in and american officials tell "the new york times" and i'm going to quote "the times here," moscow has more troops and ammunition and missiles and has increased its firepower advantage with a fleet of battlefield drones, many of them supplied by iran, according to america officials. where does this war stand from russia's point of view? >> reporter: well, certainly, chris, the russian economy is more militarized than ever.

it is pumped, if you like, to continue this conflict in ukraine. and i would say this, just listening to the conversation, chris, there is one thing that the kremlin and the biden administration agree on, and that that -- that is that this is a pivotal week, that what is happening on the hill is absolutely crucial. the spokesperson for the kremlin, dmitry peskov, saying that they are watching what is happening in congress closely and then doubling down on those arguments that you just have been talking about saying that billions of dollars more spent in ukraine, the kremlin spokesman says won't change the situation on the battlefield. what he described as the fiasco in ukraine and when you speak to russian officials, they even know when congress is going to break for the holidays. now, the russian people, chris, the polling and there is something independent polling suggests that they have

increasingly wanted peace talks wanted to see this over and done with, but that being said, here in moscow, it is clear that the russian economy is still doing well, sanctions haven't had the impact that the west had hoped, partly because of the fact that russia has been able to use the money that it gets from oil and gas and fund the production of weapons, so all of that is happening here in russia as president putin looks towards an election next year. and what we have seen, just this week, is electioneering, launching two new submarines. in saudi arabia, in the united arab emirates, trying to be back on the world stage, if you like. so, the russian government believes that this is potentially a turning point, they are looking to washington to see whether they are right about that. >> so, ambassador, considering

that domestic political situation vladimir putin is facing, that keir just outlined so well, can this war be won only on the battlefield, is it going to take him, vladimir putin, being able to claim at least some sort of a win, including ukraine saving some land? >> there a lot of people suggesting that, but when they suggested it to the ukrainians, the ukrainians are not interested. the ukrainians don't want to vehe russians on their territory. they see what happens in villages, ukrainian villages where the russians have been. atrocities, torture, assassinations, rape, kidnapping. that is what they -- that's what the ukrainians don't want for their citizens, and under russian occupation. so, the ukrainians are not interested in compromising on their territory and their people, so the suggestion from the outside, from some places in europe, some places in the united states, but not the u.s.

government, i will say, that they compromise are not being well received in kyiv. >> so, what does a realistic conclusion to this look like, ambassador? >> so, again, if the united states and the rest of nato provides ukraine with the equipment, the ammunition, the supplies, the weapons, that they need, they can -- i was just there last month, they tell me that if they get that, they can succeed in disrupting the russian military operation in -- on their territory. >> disrupting or beating the russians? those are two different things. >> they are. but one comes first and then the second. that is when they disrupt, and then if they put -- if they can disrupt the supplies, going into their troops, and the troops are cut off, then the troops will have to be -- will have to be pulled back. that's the way it can end. it is also possible, chris, that if we don't provide that, that

the ukrainians will have a very tough time. we'll be answering the question who is responsible for that ukrainian loss if we do not provide those weapons. >> ambassador bill taylor, keir simmons, kelly o'donnell, jackie alemany, fantastic panel. thank you so much. coming up, the special counsel wants the highest court in the land to take on arguably the central undecided question for donald trump. does presidential immunity shield him from prosecution? we're back in 60 seconds. m pros? we're back in 60 seconds

we are on the cusp of what will be a pivotal moment in the prosecution of donald trump and his efforts to delay his federal election interference trial. the supreme court is now giving the former president until december 20th to respond to a petition filed by special counsel jack smith. in it, he asks the justices to decide if trump has immunity for actions taken while in office.

and a separate filing is also getting its clues about the case that jack smith is building, using cell phone and location data, three expert witnesses are expected to connect when trump used his phone and what for in the time around january 6th and the attack on the capitol, specifically, quote, the movements of individuals toward the capitol area during and after the defendant's speech at the ellipse. glen kirschner is an msnbc legal analyst. also with me, nbc's vaughn hillyard. glen, the request was breaking around this time yesterday. then pretty quickly the supreme court fast tracked it. are you at all surprised by how quickly this has moved so far and how quickly might it move? >> you know, i would say i'm a little surprised, chris, but i'm heartened. to say, you know, time is of the essence right now would be an understatement. we have a presidential election coming up, we have a leading republican candidate for the

nomination who is pending felony charges in state and federal courts. this is an issue that must be resolved before the election. particularly in the event donald trump is the republican nominee, i think the american people, the american voters have a right to know whether they will cast their vote for a convicted felon or a completely innocent exonerated man because he's been found not guilty on all the charges. so, we'll know more on december 20th, which is when the supreme court has directed the trump team to respond to jack smith's request that basically this case leapfrogged the d.c. federal circuit court of appeals and be addressed promptly and definitively by the supreme court. >> vaughn, how is the trump campaign taking all this? >> right, jack smith wants to avoid the risk of having this case delayed beyond the march 4th trial date that is currently set. the trump campaign explicitly the opposite position, just in a statement there last night, i want to let you take a look at

part of it, a spokesman for trp says as president trump said over and over again, this prosecution is completely politically motivated, there is absolutely no reason to rush this sham trial, except to injure president trump and tens of millions of his supporters. this statement came in literally minutes before the supreme court said, hey, we are going to take up and consider this petition here. so, for donald trump and his team, they may be looking at having to work through this appeal directly with the u.s. supreme court and all of this comes down to the timeline, the political timeline, chris. donald trump says, hey, why did it take them three years to charge me after january 6th. but right now jack smith has his case, he's made clear he's ready to present it and we're looking at a trial that will last three months. if you take march 4th, fast-forward three months, that is -- that means the trial will conclude in the heart of the summer, july is when the republican national committee will convene at the rnc, for the convention to formally nominate the gop presidential candidate.

that could be donald trump. if donald trump is able to delay this case here, that makes him in a better position to not have to deal with any potential conviction if that were to take place before july of 2024 or the general election. >> so, talk about the stakes if you will, glen. even if the justices rule for jack smith and company, could trump's lawyers still delay the trial until at least august, september, and then make the argument that he needs to be on the campaign trail, he can't be in court? >> they can try to make that argument, the problem with that argument is the only way you can hold up the trial date by using the courts, and appealing decisions is really for the issues that are presently on their way to the supreme court. a potential double jeopardy claim for which there really is no legal support and this absolute immunity notion. so, once the decks are cleared of those potentially case-ending motions, then donald trump

really won't have anything to appeal, so he won't be able to weaponize the delay that is inherent in the appellate process to push the trial date down the road. i'm glad vaughn pointed out that the trump's position was instantly we don't want the supreme court to resolve this quickly. if you have an honestly held belief you're absolutely immune as you say in your court pleadings, and that the supreme court will rule that way, wouldn't you think you would want it immediately resolved so you can get out of this litigation altogether? the case would be dismissed, and you would be off to the campaign trail. >> so what does team trump say to that, vaughn? that is the natural and common sensical pushback. this trial is happening, you may not think it is fair, but it is happening. so why not clear your name if you're so sure of your innocence? >> right. donald trump made the case to the masses that this is not a fair trial, and essentially they're all but getting ready for a conviction and for donald trump he's made the case and

there is fair criticism potentially to be had that the fbi and the department of justice ultimately did not ramp up their investigation until donald trump was making it abundantly clear he was going to run for president. and so, in donald trump and his allies' case, they're suggesting, well, if it was not that urgent to take up this trial, then why does it need to happen in 2024 when clearly the republican electorate based on polling thinks that he should be the next president of the united states, why not let the american public be the jury and decide donald trump's political fate and then in the situation that he were to come potentially get into the white house, there is the scenario in which he could all but throw out his trial, if this trial were to get delayed long enough. >> let's talk about this new reporting on witnesses who examined the phone data history, right? the use of twitter. how key could this information be to connecting trump to the

movements around the time of the capitol riot? >> i started prosecuting back in the '80s before there were cell phones and before we could use those cell phones to virtually pinpoint where somebody was placing the call from, where somebody with a phone was at the time they were texting. so, all of this will kind of be weaving together a tapestry of potentially incriminating evidence against donald trump. because prosecutors, just because there is a tweet that comes out from trump's account, they still have to prove that it was donald trump who was, you know, had his hands on the phone, drafting that message to send out to the troops because his troops -- the troops, the people attacking the capitol, because when he said sort of midriot that mike pence didn't have the courage to do what he should have done, meaning to keep donald trump in office, what was the response from the

folks midriot, they broke out in chants of hang mike pence. all of that needs to be proved. we know it based on public reporting, but in a court of law, you have to prove it with things like cell phone records, and cell site information, where was that cell phone at the moment that tweet was drafted and posted. >> and nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you. glen, don't go anywhere. we're going to get right back to you. in a hotly anticipated move, after days of meetings, harvard's top governing board decided that claudine gay will keep her job after facing backlash over testimony she gave at a congressional hearing on anti-semitism. the decision announced in the statement saying that she is, quote, the right leader to help our community heal and to address the very serious societal issues we are facing. more than 700 faculty members signed a letter urging harvard to resist the calls to remove gay. in an interview with the harvard crimson student newspaper, president gay apologized for what she said in her

congressional testimony, adding, she failed to convey what is her truth. coming up in our next hour, one of the reporters who broke that story in the harvard crimson will join the conversation. all of it during finals week, by the way. plus, the united nations general assembly is set to vote on a new cease-fire resolution in gaza, while aid organizations say more than half the hospitals there have closed. the ceo of save the children will join us right after this. you're watching "chris jansing reports." you're watching "chris jansing reports. so now, do you have a driver's license? oh. what did you get us? [ chuckling ] with the click of a pen, you can a new volkswagen at the sign, then drive event. sign today and you're off in a new volkswagen during the sign, then drive event. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you...

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inside gaza right now, there are fewer and fewer places left to treat those who have been gravely injured in the fighting. a world health organization official, in fact, said today that just 11, fewer than a third of gaza's hospitals, remain even partially functional. so now they're arguing it is critical for what is left to remain in tact. two u.s. officials tell nbc news there is limited hope for a pause in fighting. as strikes continue today hitting the jabalia refugee came camp in the north. all of this as one of the first israeli hostages released by hamas tells my colleague richard engel in an exclusive interview time is running out for the

others still being held captive right now inside gaza. >> translator: the lack of air in the tunnels as well as the shortage of food and medicine could bring people to complete exhaustion. and they just won't make it. they need to get out today. otherwise, they won't live. >> nbc's hallie jackson is live in tel aviv for us. president biden just made some new comments about the israeli prime minister, netanyahu, and how he's handling the war. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: hey, chris. good to be with you. this is at a campaign reception, not on camera, back home in washington. and the president made very clear something that we have been watching now for days, which are his disagreements with prime minister benjamin netanyahu on what happens after this war ends. he said that bibi's got a tough decision to make this is the most conservative government in israel's history, they do not want a two-state solution and netanyahu has to strengthen and

change the israeli government to find a longer term solution to the israeli-palestinian conflict. what makes this so interesting is the timing of it as well. just today we have also heard from prime minister netanyahu directly referencing the disagreements about what happens in his words on the day after hamas, he puts it. this is the central point of tension between the two countries. what you're seeing from the leadership level, president to prime minister, is probably the most daylight at least publicly since this war began. these are two countries that have shown each other incredible support, very close allies, the u.s. even in the face of international pressure has sided with israel on, for example, rejecting international calls for a cease-fire here. critical too, in the potential to negotiate a temporary truce. that's what we saw, of course, a couple of weeks ago. on that topic, another one of high interest to people here in israel, including obviously and of course those who still have loved ones who being held captive in gaza.

that includes a man named gill dickman, his cousin is being held, he says from what they understand based on what they heard from other hostages who have been released, even in captivity she had been leading her fellow captives in meditation, doing yoga with them, trying to give them something to hold on to during the weeks they were in captivity. i asked him if he's hopeful, given some of the news that we have seen here, the idea that the qataris are trying to push for a diplomatic solution, if he's still hopeful for a temporary cease-fire to get his cousin back. here's what he said. >> i have to be hopeful. if i'm not hopeful, then i have no reason to keep on waking up in the morning. but i think that there are reasons to believe that the world understands now how crucial that is. and that people in israel right now, while the fight is going on in gaza, more and more people

understand that they're not going to -- the annihilation of hamas is very important. but it will not be achieved while there are hostages still in the hands of hamas. >> reporter: so that's, of course, what is happening in israel. what is happening in gaza is dire. it is severe, it is a humanitarian crisis based on international aid organizations that is simply only getting worse with an estimated 80 to 90% of gazans displaced from their homes. no place to go. more than half starving. and accusations that israel has gone after, for example, a hospital in the gaza strip and so on, chris. it is a very difficult situation there. even as we have seen now at least one border crossing, one more border crossing open for the inspection of aid trucks, that have been a critical point that international groups wanted to see. they are looking at aid trucks, not crossing in, they still have to go down to the south and up through rafah for that. it is a hope that could boost the food, water, medicine

getting into gaza that people so desperately need. chris? >> hallie jackson, thank you, appreciate it. i want to bring in the president and ceo of save the children, yanti serito. thank you for joining us. you just posted that a staffer and his family, they were killed in an air strike in gaza over the weekend. and first and foremost, so sorry for your loss. it does point to the dangers of trying to help in gaza. first, is there anything you want to tell us about him as well as the difficult choices that members of your organization are having to make? >> thank you, chris. d thank you for highlighting that. we're mourning the loss of he and his wife and his four children. every time this happens, we have colleagues who put their lives on the line in many, many places around the world. this is no different. we have 25 staff in gaza and

every day we were hoping that they were safe and accounted for. while knowing the risks and the dangers. i would also point out that he and his wife died with their family. he was actually at the time of death not out there trying to deliver what little aid supplies have come in to the communities. which he has done, he and his fellow colleagues have done that over these past days and weeks. whenever that was possible. he was killed in his home, in his shelter, with his family, as has been the case with so many humanitarian workers dying in gaza. >> that reality on the ground spurred you and many other leading humanitarian organizations with staff in gaza to w a very compellin op-ed for "the new york times." i want to read a small part of it, if i can. among leaders in washington ther constant talk about preparing for the day after. but if this relentless

bombardment and siege continues, there will be no day after for gaza. it will be too late. hundreds of thousands of lives hang in the balance today. i mentioned this earlier, two u.s. officials tell us there is limited hope for a pause in the fighting. so what in your view does that mean? what is the reality you know on the ground? >> look, this humanitarian catastrophe is literally unfolding before our eyes. it is rare that humanitarians, you know, all say the same thing, at the same time. we have -- we are in the worst conflict zones around the world. save the children has been doing that for over 100 years, from sudan to afghanistan to tigray to the congo. this is nothing like we have seen before. there is nowhere to go for the population of gaza. a million children have no place to go. and they're being chased around

this chess board of small pockets where people say it is safe and then being chased around some more. the situation of the healthcare system, the hospital, only 11 hospitals still barely functioning out of the 36, 35 that were there, again, if children don't die of bombings, of shellings, they will die of hunger. if they don't die of hunger, they will die of waterborne disguises. it is just unconscionable that we're letting this happen. we saw what was possible when there was a seven-day pause, a multiday because. more aid did come in. we were able to do certain things, to deliver supplies, to do -- to start to do some work with children to have them play. but it was not nearly enough, it was not nearly long enough and not nearly enough supplies were able to get in. >> let me ask you finally, i want to show you some new heart breaking video we got in from reuters, a family mourning the loss of a 1-month-old who was

killed in gaza after being born in the middle of a war zone. if you could get world leaders, if you can get bibi netanyahu, president biden, if you could get our allies to listen to you, what would you say? >> where is your humanity? look at it. imagine these are your children. the children in your life, in your family. they are dying and they are dying needlessly, unnecessarily, and they are dying terrible deaths, terrible deaths. we are running out of words to describe it. also because we know this is not necessary. >> well, janti, our condolences at that horrific loss of your worker and his family and thanks to all of you. your organization and the others for continuing to shine a light on this situation. thank you.

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less than two weeks after being kicked out of congress, george santos is hoping he can stay out of il he was back in a courtroom today as prosecutors say plea deal talks are under way. he faces 23 federal counts on a litany of charges. he has pled not guilty to all

charges. rehema ellis is at the long island courthouse. glen kirschner is back with me. what is the latest from the courthouse? >> reporter: well, chris, you're spot on in this. the latest is that the prosecution filed papers with the court, they're in negotiations trying to reach a plea deal, agreement with the defense, so it would preclude the need to go to trial. he asked for 30 days to continue those conversations. the judge absolutely is in agreement with that. the other thing that came out today in the status hearing was the fact that the defense was saying in counter to the prosecution suggesting they go to trial in the spring, the defense says not so fast because there is so much to go through. they pointed out there is more than 1.3 million pages they received from the prosecution in terms of documents they have to review. some of them being sensitive, requiring that his client, george santos be present. the judge came back and said he

doesn't have to go back and forth to washington that they should be able to be in the same room together to go over everything. in the event they do not reach a plea agreement, another status hearing is scheduled here for january 23rd. chris? >> glen, if santos was to be found guilty on all charges, "the new york times" estimates he could spend up to 22 years in federal prison, a prospect he's not happy about, understandably. i want to play a little clip of an interview done with him. >> trial not until september and the plea is not off the table. there is conversations taking place, especially after what happened in congress and we'll see. >> are you afraid of going to jail? >> i think everybody should be afraid of going to jail. it is not a pretty place. and i definitely want to work very hard to avoid that as best as possible. >> not a pretty place. maybe the understatement of the century. but, listen, glen, obviously there are criteria prosecutors

consider if even they agree to engage in plea negotiations. tell us a little bit about how this works and whether the high profile nature of this case could impact a decision. >> great question, chris. as a former career federal prosecutor, you know, negotiating and discussing plea offers is the norm. it is rare except with maybe mob bosses and kingpins where we will make no plea offer at all. it is very rare. where parties don't have productive discussions trying to solve a case short of trial. th the 32 -- these 23 charges in george santos' indictment, if you consider that he's got nine charges of wire fraud alone and conviction on just one count of wire fraud can carry up to 20 years in prison, i suspect george santos and his legal team will be looking to limit their exposure as much as they can and try to strike the most advantageous plea agreement that they can. but, it really does feel like as

a matter of principle, the prosecutors will look at these crimes, will apply the principles that we are duty bound to apply as federal prosecutors, those principles apply first and foremost, we have to believe that we have enough admissible evidence to obtain and sustain a conviction, but beyond that, we need to take into account the impact on the victims, the harm to the victims that george santos crimes did. when you consider that amongis charged offenses there are charges o credit card fraud, where he was actually stealing from the very constituents that he was asking to vote for him, one of the important principles in deciding what kind of a plea to offer is to deter others who might follow in george santos' footsteps, try to commit crimes to get elected to public office. i suspect there will be hard

nosed negotiations and the prosecutors will probably offer a plea that will require at least some prison time, that is what i would expect to deter -- to punish george santos and to deter others from following in his footsteps. >> what a decision that would be for him. glen kirschner, great to see you. rehema ellis, stay warm out there, thank you as well. up next, fraud in a bottle. a cnbc investigation into an elaborate system that pumps counterfeit drugs out across the country. country. (husband) ♪ hey there family! while you're shopping, ♪ ♪ get me a 5g phone, it's on my list. ♪ (wife) instead of doing all of this

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we're back with the battle against counterfeit drugs and the criminals who make millions tampering with those life saving pills. contessa brewer has our report. >> investigators say this is a drug diversion in action. in this south florida apartment, a woman, her husband and son, remove patient names from prescription pill bottles. >> he's using that lighter fluid, a harsh chemical, to clean the bottle and remove the pharmacy prescription label. >> it's part of a complex operation. across the country, counterfeiters are tampering with pill bottles. sometimes even swapping out the life saving medications and selling them the pharmacies. steven is assistant special agent in charge at health and human services office of inspector general. >> drug diversion is widespread

and it impacts the entire country. >> here's how it works. a patient fills a prescription for medication. sometimes worth several thousand dollars, but turns around and sells it for a fraction of that in cash. the buyer, known as an aggregator, removes the patient information and sometimes alters the contents of the bottle. then sells it to a distributor who sells it back to pharmacies at a discount. this man who agreed to an interview if we concealed his identity, served time for a past pill diversion scheme. he says it was easy to persuade patients to sell their medicine. >> they had aids, cancer, and they don't have any money. so for $100, $200. >> from there, they're sold to distributors who have relationships with thousands of independent pharmacies around the country. pharmacies that are on the receiving end of these diverted prescriptions, do they know?

>> some do. some don't. >> these thousands of bottles all originally were prescribed and filled for patients. now they fill an evidence room at gilead sciences in northern california. >> we are playing a bit of a game of whack a mole. >> lori oversees global product security at gilead which manufactures hiv medications. >> we know that upwards of 80,000 of bottles after counterfeits were entered. >> gilead learned they had a serious problem in 2020 when reports came in of bottles filled with a completely different medication. then they sound a slew of counterfeits. this bottle doesn't even contain pills. just rocks. why do you think somebody would try to pass this off as a real bottle of prescription medicine? >> all they need to do is make the sale. >> as for these three, they were convicted for their connection to a prescription drug

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