that does it for me today. i wish everyone a happy holiday season with friends and family. for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news on the way from msnbc. >> it's new and it's alarming. words from a local law enforcement today. and officials says, quote, just this week we had cases involving farcical fbi agents, a supreme court justice, and three presidential candidates. who said it?

and why, later this hour. that's a federal official. plus, the colorado ruling. why it's a political gift to biden, not donald trump. and just in time to ruin the holiday, this. breaking news on fog. very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with this breaking news. just before the deadline overnight, donald trump's legal team filed a brief with a federal appeals court in washington asking it to toss out the d.c. election subversion case against him. saying he should be immune from prosecution for his actions while he was presidents. it comes a day after the supreme court declined to intervene and the case, leaving it to the lower court to decide first. meanwhile, on the question of immunity, president biden, now, has weighed in. >> mister president, do you think that our [inaudible]

>> i can't think of one. >> joining me now, nbc's julie tsirkin in washington. julie, welcome. what did we hear from trump's legal team overnight? >> well, trump's legal team is arguing, alex, that the former president was acting in his official capacity as presidents, and not in his personal capacity as a campaigner for presidents when he questioned the election results of the 2020 election. they said in this legal brief that, quote, the indictment against president trump is unlawful and constitutional. they say it must be dismissed. they also, side which was interesting, is the former president was ensuring, quote, election integrity when he made those judgment calls, questioning the results in several states of the 2020 election. they're also saying that if the house had impeach the former presidents, and if the senate had convicted him, which the house did impeach the former president the senate run by republicans did not, then maybe jack smith would have a chance

here. a leg to stand on in this election subversion case. still, the former president is getting the backing of one of his closest allies, lindsey graham. who posted on x earlier with a re-post of tru's truth social post, which you see him there. he said there were numerous legal and factual concerns about the 2020 presidential election. the president has the right and duty, graham, says to challenge the results, he also accused the justice system of trying to, quote, criminalize the president for questioning and challenging election. he did say today that trump needs to stop talking about 2020, and look at. watch this. >> i accept the election results from 2020. i worried about 2024. if president trump puts a -- improving security and prosperity for americans, he will win. if he looks, back i think that he will lose. so at the end of the day, the 2020 elections are over, for me, we need to secure the ballots in the 2024 cycle, but donald

trump's not the first person to complain about an election. >> remember, alex, the lower court has already rejected trump's claims of immunity. that is why the d.c. court of appeals is weighing that question right now. it's the very same one that special counsel jack smith tried to expedite before the supreme court, as you noted. the higher court rejecting that request, so the arguments will start on january 9th, again, this is so important, because jacks mitt cannot continue in this case. the election subversion case, until the question of immunity is settled, alex. >> we're going to keep talking about this right now, but i thank you very much. julie tsirkin. joining me, harry litman, former u.s. attorney and deputy assistant attorney general. he hosts the talking heads podcasts. let's get into this. trump's legal team claims, and, part this is the separation of powers issue. the judicial grand cannot sit in judgment over presidents official acts. that doctrine is not

controversial. give me your sense of the legal argument, what do you make a bed? >> yeah, the doctor has not controversial, but it is not remotely applying here. it's interesting that they made this their lead arguments. these are cases that say the judiciary can't second-guess the presidents discretionary actions, for example, giving a pardon, or vetoing. they say nothing at all, and the court is not saying anything at all about whether that means that the executive branch can't indict and a jury find guilty of president for committing crimes. it's completely a field. i think it's a bit of flay lane that it's trump's primary arguments, both in the introduction, and in the brief itself. >> so, can i just ask you, if we boil this down really basically, or they say, in an essence, the argument they're making is that the president is above the law? >> in part, that's exactly what

they're saying in two ways. first, they're saying as long as the president is acting officially, he's above the law. he cannot be the way other people can, convicted of a crime. above the law. they have to make another submission, which is that's why you hear about all this election integrity stuff. they have to be, saying that's what he was doing on january six. just checking on election integrity. the constitution doesn't care who wins the presidency. if he is just trying to get people to vote for him, or much worse, whirl reverse an election, that's no part of his official duties. so he's making two, parts, one real distortion of the facts, and the seconds, a distortion, and outright statement that the president is above the law in this narrow way. >> here's what we know. trump is facing 91 felony counts across five different cases, four tied to the d.c. election interference case. how could a final decision on

presidential immunity impact all of these criminal cases against trump? >> well, if it goes the way trump wants it to, it will mean that these suits the concern when he was in office would have to go away. that means fulton county, probably goes away, even though it's a state court case, and the january 6th case. it would mean mar-a-lago goes away, because this was after he was president. he would mean the new york case involving stormy daniels goes away because that's before he was president. but the two most important cases, the biggest, the ones that really go to his, you, know essential betrayal of the constitution would go away. i don't think that will happen, alex. >> okay. stick around, we're going to discuss the colorado supreme court's actions in just a couple minutes with the. thanks for that. more breaking news to share in the rapidly escalating humanitarian crisis overseas with reports of strikes in raids across gaza this weekend's. prime minister benjamin netanyahu denied reports that

the u.s. convinced israel to not expand the war by attacking hezbollah and lebanon. president biden on saturday saying that he spoke to netanyahu, but confirming that he did not demand a stop to the fighting. >> i had a long talk with netanyahu today, a private conversation. >> that's a private conversation. >> the u.s. navy conform unit shut down for more drones in the red sea on saturday. this is the latest attack by houthi rebels that have crippled trafficked through the suez canal. we've got two reports on this breaking news from israel in washington. we're gonna go first to the white house in nbc's erin gillcross. good morning to you. what do we know about the phone call between president biden and netanyahu? >> we heard the president say himself that this is a long phone call that he had with the prime minister yesterday before he left washington for the christmas holiday with this family. the white house told us after the president left here that that phone call really was a discussion about the military

operations that are happening in gaza right now in terms of the objectives that the israelis have sat, and also, the phasing of the operation. we've talked a bit about the operation moving from the high intensity phase that it's been, into one that is of lower intensity, and more targeted. that's what the administration has been requesting. the white house that they also talked about the need to protect the civilian population more vigorously than has been done in the last several weeks. also about being able to create pathways for citizens to move more safely to areas where there is not fighting that's happening right now in gaza. i should note too that the israelis also played out a readout of sorts on the call that the president to prime minister had by way of twitter. they said that the prime minister made clear that the israel would continue the war until all of its objectives had been achieved. this is the 16th phone call between the two leaders. the last time they smoke was on december 7th. it's been a couple of weeks at least. here we do know, of course, the security adviser, jake sullivan,

was in israel on the presidents behalf. that was around the 12th of december. it had similar conversations about what's happening there, and how the u.s. can help to advise the israelis on what they're doing. alex. >> let me ask you about this, erin. as today, the u.s. confirmed it shut down several drones over the red sea. what can you tell us about that? >> yeah, we learn from sitcom, the central command, the military apparatus that operates in that area, that there were four drones that were shot down over the red sea, and they were also several missile launches from the houthi controlled areas of yemen. as we've been seen over the last several weeks, there were also several ships in the red sea that were reported needed help while they were transiting that area. this is been an issue that prompted the secretary of defense to travel to the region, to announce a new operation, a maritime operation where there are ships of several nations that are now control in the red sea, trying to make sure that it is safe for commercial ships to pass through. this is yet another instance where we're seeing the need to take action in this area.

we also heard today from senator bill haggerty of tennessee. a republican who spoke about what's been happening in that area, and the need for more to be done. listen. >> from a diplomatic standpoint, we've been sending mixed messages to israel. you know, we talk about cease-fires, we talk about sending humanitarian aid into gaza, we talk about putting conditions on aid. these mixed messages and the fact that we've allowed iran to enrich itself, and repopulated mohsen hezbollah, and who, these with the weapons they need, has created the situation. we need to snap back the economic sanctions immediately on iran. >> so for the administration's part, alex, they've said that they've been doing a show of strength in that region, militarily and with a strong diplomatic presence as well, trying to make sure that the conflict in israel and gaza doesn't expand beyond those borders. obviously, there is a sense that the administration hasn't done enough. alex. >> okay, thank you for the latest.

joining me now from tel aviv, israel, is nbc's jay gray. jay, bring us up to speed on the latest there, what's happening on the ground? >> well,, alex there continue to be strikes across gaza, and what the idf is saying is that they are continuing to work on the ground, mostly in central gaza right now. attacking command and control centers as well as to the north with airstrikes. we spent most of the state, christmas eve, in jerusalem. that city, most years, is packed with thousands of tourists. it's a festival with lights, ornaments, music, a massive christmas tree. this year, there is no celebration in jerusalem. the nativity scene at one church near major square is framed by rubble. >> today, christmas is precisely what you see in that picture. a child under the rubble. homes that are destroyed, families that are displaced.

why the world continues to ignore the children of russia by rationalizing their killing. it seems everyone's okay with the children of gaza, we are appalled by that. we say if jesus were to be born today, he would be born under the rubble. >> i need to correct myself, i said jerusalem, we were in bethlehem today. i spent time in jerusalem the day before. i can tell you that on most christmas eve's in christmas days, there are lines as far as you can see at the church of the nativity, where jesus was born. today, only a handful of the faithful there. it is clear that most of the people who live in bethlehem, their hearts, their thoughts, are with their friends and family just 50 miles away, alex, in gaza. >> absolutely. it's a somber holiday with very little to celebrate. thank you. no loopholes, the supreme court

justice says password it insurrections -- in a nutshell, the colorado case against donald trump really could be stronger than you think. we're back in 60 seconds. 're back in 60 seconds sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. the subway series is getting an upgrade. the new #33. the teriyaki blitz. with double cheese and teriyaki-marinated meat. it's like a perfect steak spiral in the double cheese coverage. if you say so, peyton. who knew the subway series could get even better? i love that my daughter still needs me. but sometimes i can't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as 14 days. now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. new today, to the use of the

colorado supreme court decision to keep donald trump off that states primary ballots. this, week the court found that according to section three of the 14th amendment, trump engaged in an insurrection and therefore is ineligible for serving as president. >> i agree with the colorado supreme court. i've said, gosh, for quite some time, that donald trump has incited the insurrection. there shouldn't be a loophole for inciting insurrection for the presidency. this colorado supreme court made a political decision and there is no constitutional basis, i think it'll be a slam dunk on the supreme court, donald trump will eventually be

on the ballot. >> we're gonna bring in our legal expert, thanks for sticking around. so, we have the supreme court decision to disqualify trump in the ballot. that was 213 pages long. did they make the case there that there is a constitutional argument to keep him off the ballots, or, according to lindsey graham, will it be a slam dunk at the supreme court if it gets there? >> look, they definitely made the case, and far from there be no constitutional basis, there is just a plain tax constitutional basis if he took an oath before, and you engaged in an insurrection, then you are barred from future office. it's a qualification, another qualifications for instance being 35 years old. but, to where it gets really a puzzle, not about whether there is a constitutional, text but whether the supreme court is the one to apply it. that, and the court needs this like a hole in the head, the

thrust right in the middle of this question. i think they're going to have to take it, up they're going to have to decide. one impta thing to notice, alex, all they can really say, at best, his colorado may know error of federal law here. that would lead him off the ballot in colorado, but you would have him still on the ballot elsewhere. it might be we other state efforts, but we have a pretty weird situation on the ballot in some places, not others. there is a straightforward textual command that has just never been presented in this way, and it's not cut and dry the way the others are. they had an evidentiary hearing, they found these things, and that's what a court does. it resolves these factual questions like that. >> i think you're absolutely right, that they may not want it but they are going to get it because trump's team has indicated they're going to put it, there they're going to make an appeal to that, certainly after christma ocould come as soon as tuesday, i suppose.

let me ask you about the democratic appointed justices in the colorado supreme cot case. they cited a decision by conservative supreme court justice when he said he was a federal judge in the state of colorado. he then ruled that a naturalized citizen should be kept off the presidential ballot because he didn't meet constitutional requirements. so what's the relevance around constitutional requirements in this case, and does it apply? why do you think the colorado justices chose the specific reference in their case? again, referring to a conservative justice. >> it's pretty clear why they chose. that they know this is going with a bullet to the supreme court, and they did something interesting, which by the way, the d.c. circuit also could do. they stayed their decision, but just for 14 days. pretty much forcing trump's hand to move quickly. he can't just lollygag. look, it's just what we were talking about before, there are only a handful, for, really, qualifications in the

constitution. one is to be natural born, and here, colorado did something just natural. they found this person was, and kept them off the residential ballot as a result. now, is at the same? this specific provision, where you have to finds that somebody did these things, might the courts say, for example, it's in their, but it's for congress to decide, or something like that. the sorts of things that the dissenting justices were saying in colorado. that is where it gets tricky, rather than the actual command, which really is, straightforward. >>, listen it's for the colorado, as you will, now because we've already seen similar legal challenges to trump's eligibility, and more than 30 states. they've had limited success. you have minnesota, for example, say that the primary eligibility is at the political parties, but the 14th amendment question could apply to the general election. colorado, depending on how it goes, down how could that

decision cascade to other states? >> well, that's exactly. at the other efforts, you can see, even the trial court here was a little afraid of pulling the trigger. colorado supreme court did. at so i think that it would definitely put winds in the sales of the other states that are where challenges are pending. maine would be next. even the cases like in michigan in minnesota, where they said not for now, they were scared of the momentum of the question. if the court said colorado did okay, then i think the other states would feel the same. but it would never be all 50. we're looking, if they affirmative kind of crazy quilt situation for presidential election. of course, everything about this presidential election is crazy. >> i mean, considering these unique constitutional questions on presidential immunity, and ballot eligibility, is the supreme court on about the legal and quasi-political collision course with this 2024 election? is there any way around it? >> i don't see.

it i, you back, i think they. are i don't think they want to, be it is important, by the way, when they didn't approve the smiths petition before the judgment in the other case, that it was all nine of them. i think that they are really conscious up the risk to the whole court, that if they get too involved, they'd be planes, their capital will go down, that they see this acting politically. as you, same there is no way around, it but they want to minimize. they certainly don't want to series of 6 to 3, 5 to 4 decisions. i don't see how the court stays out of those two questions. certainly the one that you are talking about now. >> let me squeeze in a quick question on the new reporting from detroit, the detroit news specifically, to audio donald trump and republican national committee chairwoman, robert and daniel. pressuring to michigan canvassers not to certify the 2020 election. now, detroit news the started, nbc news has not heard it or verify the recordings. could this get either or both into legal trouble?

>> you, bats there are tapes. this is like raffensperger except a play ball. so there are potential violations of state law for bribery, federal law, and also michigan law that has potential conspiracy to violate the election laws. you gotta imagine this, that they know about. it it's not in the jacks, mid part of me, it's not in his indictments, but it could be, and absolutely it's of a peace with the georgia case. >> whatever he may offend out about a, he sure knows about it now. always good to see you. thank you so much. and to you, have a good holiday. breaking news, that could ruin people's holiday plans. it is an issue right now, today. christmas eve. where it is, and where it's happening, next. happening, next.

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could be complicated holiday travel this christmas eve. flight cancellations and delays growing in both chicago airports today. meanwhile heavy rain will stretch through the gulf coast, and then check out, this a video we just got, implicitly condition affecting parts of the northern plains. this new video from earlier today show semi trucks, they're off the road there in nebraska. conditions there will get worse tomorrow. let's get the latest on all of this from nbc shaquille brewster who standing by in chicago's midway airport. tell us what happened there earlier, and how are things now? >> well, things are certainly improve vein and moving in the right direction here in chicago. passengers are trying to do what they can to hold on to that holiday cheer as they try to make it home for christmas. what we saw earlier today is that weather impacted this airport. we saw an hours long ground stop here in chicago. that ground stop has now been lifted, i'm lucky now, here at midway, one and every three

flights is leaving or delayed right now. 39 flights in total have been canceled. if you look at the picture nationwide, we know that there has been about 2000 delays, send 125 cancellations. many of those have been due to weather. we're talking about fog in chicago, similar conditions from what you're seeing in areas like phoenix, detroit, denver, dealing with an actual storm there. we are seeing some long lines and many airports. i want you to take a listen to what one passenger told me a bit about her experience, and how she has been getting through this. >> we tried to leave yesterday, we had an evening flight, sand it was delayed, because of the fog, and then eventually canceled. then we were told that we'd be leaving today, at 1:20. so we're here, there is no one at the desk to check i said. >> how are you feeling right now? >> hopeful. hopeful. i was told to pack patients with my present so i've done that. >> that is some good advice.

aaa is projecting that this holiday season in, terms of airline travel, will be record setting, with a projected 7.5 million people taking to the skies to get to and from their holiday destinations. this advice, make sure you get here early. you never know when lines can start to build up. one other thing, based on the conversation that i had earlier today, make sure you remember that when you're going to tsa, this gets to bring you back, are bringing for others, those also count. make sure that one lady had perfume that was above the 3.4 ounces the tsa allows for carry on bags. she then had to go, leave security, ends check her bank, waiting in line for not an hour to do that. make sure you consider your gifts, both to, as you travel to and from your holiday destinations. >> that's really good advice. >> look, you don't want to have to go through everything twice in terms of security. listen, my friend, i hope you're getting to where you want to go for christmas and have a warmer wonderful

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new today, it is responding to an unprecedented rise and threats to u.s. officials, including top leaders. >> on a weekly basis, sometimes more often, i am getting reports about threats to public

officials, threats to our prosecutors, threats to law enforcement agents who work at the justice department, threats to judges. in fact, just this week, just this week, we've had cases involving threats to kill fbi agents, a supreme court justice, and three presidential candidates. >> wow. joining me now, former chief of operations -- and national security analysts. mark, thank you for joining us. your immediate reaction to what we just heard. i mean, how unprecedented is the scope of threats to officials? >> well, alex, this is profoundly sad. you, know this is the united states of america, and overseas, at u.s. embassies, you know, we always wake our fingers at other countries when there was such violent rhetoric, when this unrest of public officials. now, it's happening here. it's almost like the u.s.'s

greatest national security concern is internal. again, knowing fbi agents throughout my entire career at doj officials, these are dedicated men and women who put their nose to the floor and do the job. on the contrary, never knew anyone's political ideologies or preferences. this violent rhetoric is coming from presidential candidates, ron desantis, if you recall, said that he was going to come to washington and, quote, slit throats. this is something that should be announced because people do spond to this. again, this is sad for the future of the country. i'm glad that -- ok out >> what's your response, mark, to republican claims that the doj hasen politicized against donald trump? and deputy attorney general? saying those accusations have contributed to an unprecedented rise and threats against law enforcement. >> well, i agree with monica and donald trump was indicted. you know, the department of justice is doing things by the book. everything is going to be scrutinize. we have a process, we have a

real a lot in this country. things will go on appeal, they'll go to supreme court. so ultimately, i think you have to look at the perpetrators of, for example, january six. they're being prosecuted because of an assault on our democracy. look, there's always room for improvement. the department of justice along enforcement is not perfect. the idea of this notion of politicization, i find it ridiculous. again, knowing that the fbi agents, doj officials, my entire career, i don't buy any of it. >> not me ask you about this week. after the lorado supreme court disqualify trump in the states primary ballot, the court justices received a torrent of violent threats that the fbi is now investigating. what's your reaction to that, and what can stop this support behavior? >>, well, again i think it's profoundly sad. it's easy to stop this behavior because you could have people upset with the decision, but again, is the violent rhetoric that it comes, down, frankly out of a lot of republican candidates, and republicans,

you know, senators and congressman, and politicians. so they can turn down the rhetoric we'll also say that they don't believe it's right. rhetoric does matter, and people get absolutely, you know, radicalized by this. i think the responsibility lies on the republican party to tone down that rhetoric. they can be upset about this, that's fine. that's america. but the way that they approach it is radicalizing people, and it's going to lead, obviously, to threats of her, but it could lead to serious consequences including loss of life. >> look, the fbi says it's investigating, at and that's all well and good, but what can they actually do to stop it? >> well, of, course there is the notion of free speech in the country, but if there are threats against public officials, the department of justice, they certainly can prosecute those who are doing these things. i think that that's important, that they go forward with this. but let me say once, again, alex this is a responsibility of people in the political realm not to engage in this

kind of talk and behavior, and it's mostly good if the republican officials came out and denounced those at this poll for violence. >> 100, sandra's coming from the top down, right? es developments all come on the heels, as you know, of donald trump, ratcheting up his violence and anti immigrant messaging. and the recent, days he has called doj officials thugs. he is repeatedly parroting hitler by saint immigrants or poisoning the blood of our country. can you draw direct line to trump from these threats? i, mean are our leaders, on both sides of the aisle, doing enough to sound the alarm over the real likelihood of violence as a result of donald trump's messaging? >> alex, don't, forget they've also threatened to try to kill, hey, whatever prosecute, with a death sentence, the former chairman of the chief of staff. so, of course i'm trump should be denounced on this. this kind of rhetoric behavior is appalling. the democrats should be much

stronger and calling the, south i think the white house is getting there. president biden is talking about this a bit more. of course the republican party should call this out too, because there's absolutely no place for this in any type of discourse in the united states. the republican seem to be too scared of donald trump to call out this kind of fascist rhetoric that is unprecedented in the year 2020. it's sad, it's got to be denounced. i would like to see more of, that we'll see what happens. >> well, we'll see what happens in 2024 with. that, anyway my, friend i do want to say something nice and wish you a happy holiday. thank you, mark. so not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. okay, not true when it comes to politics. at least one western. we'll take you to iowa next. you to iowa next. don't get burned by winter nose. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue. the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey.

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so i jumped right back on it. the gop presidential candidate prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. are hitting the campaign trail this week as pivotal votes in the iowa to new hampshire loom. -- the 2024 nbc news reporter is joining us from iowa. welcome to, you my friend. tell us about what's been happening this weekend on the campaign trail in iowa, and this past week in new hampshire. as well as what the polls are telling us. >> hey there, alex, from a very windy des moines, iowa. this weekend, the only presidential candidate that hit the trail running was ramaswamy here in iowa. he held more than 15 different town halls over the course of

two days on friday and saturday. i just want to pull up a map over here of iowa, because i was a really big state. we're in des moines right now, and ramaswamy's last town hall on friday was in a town called hamberg, which is in the southwest part of the state near the nebraska border. it's about a 2.5 hour drive from where i am now. then the last event that he held on saturday was in a town called waverley, which is in the northeast part of the state near the wisconsin border, and that is also a two hour drive in the opposite direction. let's talk about the polls for a second. when i was talking about caucus goers that these different events, a lot of them are very interested in ramaswamy, but still, loyal to donald trump. we see that in the polling. the latest nbc news des moines register poll, trump is that a solid 51%, while ramaswamy is at 5%. i want to pivot to new hampshire for a second, alex, when we look at the polling, there tells a little bit of a different story. that's because the electorate

in new hampshire is different. 40% of the electorate in new hampshire is something called an undeclared voter. that means that they get to choose which primary they want to vote in, whether it be the democratic one or the republican primary. a lot of them go, in an are more moderate voters, and that's why we see nikki haley doing well in a state like new hampshire. the latest cbs poll there shows trump at 44% while she is that 29%. she also just got governors to news endorsements, there's a lot of momentum for her in the states. >> alex. >> in different states, different approaches. we thank you for breaking it down. we appreciate that. rocky mountain high, or not, the panel, next. the panel, next. ♪ get iphone 15 pro and ipad and apple watch - all on them! ♪ (mom) please forgive him. (carolers) ♪ it's all good - just a little awkward. ♪ (soloist) think we'll wrap this up. (vo) it's your last chance to turn any iphone in any condition into a new iphone 15 pro with titanium

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presidency in 2020. so i think the idea that we move forward and just ignore what happened throughout 2020, and the attacks on democracy afterwards, it is also very dangerous. >> colorado secretary of state, janet griswold, that's today. reacting to donald trump being removed from her states primary ballots. and a bombshell decision, colorado supreme court cited the 14th amendment, switch bars anyone from running for election if they have participated in an insurrection. trump is vowing to appeal that decision after christmas, so this could come as soon as tuesday. joining me now is don calloway, democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund. republican strategist, susan del percio, and former florida congressman, david jolly. they are both msnbc political analysts. hey, guys, this is a gift for me having my sunday family together for christmas eve. thank you for all taking the time. here we go, susan. political experts are saying colorado just handed trump of

political gift, but i know that you do not agree. i brodetz. this new op-ed for msnbc.com, you're right, it's actually a political gift for president biden. how so? >> how so is because everybody is saying that the base will be, the republican base will be unified behind donald trump and will really get behind him. alex, they already are. there is nowhere for trump to really use this but his supporters, they are going to vote for him in 2024. however, when it comes to joe biden, right there, there is a lot of voters out there, it's not that they're looking at donald trump, but they're looking to stay home. we see that with some of the base of the democratic party, and we also see it with the republicans and center independents who voted for joe biden in 2020 because they knew it was the right thing to do, but they really are not pleased with him. they just don't want to pull the love roll a gun for him.

but, with democracy so front and center, i think that that's a way to appeal to those folks in a patriotic sense. >> this case is lightly going to end up in the supreme court, david, so what would be the political fallout if the justices end up citing with colorado? yeah, i'm with susan, i think the only political impact of this is to ratchet up the intensity of both the proponents of donald trump, and those who are posed to him. i've been skeptical all along about the strategy, and as a skeptical attorney, of the legal arguments as well. so i think that if you are an opponent of donald trump, the less than, is keep working very hard to turn up votes in november, and don't rely on this. in large, part i think the common sense legal criticism of, this and i know that there are scholars who say that they, that the colorado decision could be, upheld but donald trump has not been convicted of insurrection. jack smith has even charged with insurrection.

they have this effect around them. more importantly, alex, the states pursuing this strategy are the states where donald trump is not going to win their electoral votes anyway. so the lesson, is keep working very hard to turn out votes for your candidates, if you're post donald trump, let's see what the courts decide. they have the supreme court, is -- it does not uphold, the semi pinion. >> but don, to david's point, and there are states where this is happening, these efforts to try to disqualify donald trump in 2024, not all democrats are on board. the california governor, gavin newsom, he has panned the efforts of his lieutenant governor who is pushing right now to follow colorado's footsteps, and do it by thursday this week. in a statement newsom says, in california, we defeat candidates at the polls, everything else is a political distraction. how do you see it? >> well, gavin newsom is speaking as a man who has very,

very clear intentions on running for president. he has to kind of strike the tone of a unifier, not the far-left candidate that he appears to be, or he will be appearing to be from anyone who doesn't of the politics of california. that doesn't mean gavin usman is right. i know that this will not be a pelted of supreme court. i also know that only blue states are doing. that's one thing that we've seen as a through line throughout the presidency and, you know, the stronghold of donald trump has on the admonishing nation of this country, is that people who are going to be on the right side of history have to make the case, and have to get the results. that's why you do, that's why you, what's the eye word? that's why you impeach the president of the house even if you know they're not going to get convicted in the senate. that's why you do it twice. if you're on the right side of history, you have to make a record to show that there are consequences insurrection. look, david is absolutely right in terms of the legal ramifications of what happened in colorado, but it is important to pull up, for the record, for history, that there

were 14th amendments consequences for an insurrection that donald trump participated. and i would love to see it happen in virginia where you have an actual purple state, we're taking about the ballot could really matter, but it probably won't. >> good point there. as we've all, heard donald trump is doubling down on the comments he made that mimics language that was used by adolf hitler. take a listen to this. >> they come from africa, they come from asia, they come from south america, but not just south america, they're all over the world. they dumped along the border, and they pour into our country, they're destroying the blood of our country, that's what they're doing, they're destroying our country. they don't like it when i say that. they i've never read my cop. they, said hitler said that. in a much different way. >> so in a new memo, the biden campaign says they are now going to focus on warning voters about the threat that trump poses to democracy, and then they posted this photo. it's comparing trump's rhetoric to hitler's.

the question, is is that a winning strategy? john, you first. >> it is a winning strategy. i mean, it's not even sounding an alarm, anymore it's just the very basic objective facts that the worst genocidal maniac in human history, that a time when jews are under attack, said that language that is the playbook for not just the trump presidential campaign, but, frankly the republican party standard. he is the guy. if you elect the people who elect him up and down the ballots, this is what you're voting for. i think there's an absolute winning strategy, even as doomsday as it, seems what, frankly sometimes you have to say the obvious because trump's say net with no ramifications otherwise. he is still 30 points up in iowa, 15, 16 points up in new hampshire. so this is what we're going to be dealing with, and one of the republican nominee. it's important to let the people know from the beginning that this is what you're voting for. you are voting for head like to point out. >> speaking of, obviously this kind of rhetoric should be appalling to all voters regardless of party, do you

think that putting a spotlight on the dangers of donald trump's words will it be key to getting president biden reelected? >> will it be key? will it be a pivotal issue? no. will it be very important to the ongoing narrative that the biden campaign will have? this is far from the only example. so i think you're going to see this emphasized when necessary, or when appropriate. it will, again, go into that vein of the drums, next election day of who donald trump is. >> okay, last word to you, this is an appeal to what will bring votes to biden to the old school republicans, classic republicans who really cannot stomach the thought of a second trump term. >> i think it keeps very important voters with the president and it's very much like susan discussed in her op-ed. i think this is a chilling cultural moment for us, alex,

that is bigger than politics and i know we have to be careful using the word racist, it is racism that trump says that, but the paraphrase hitler. if he has not read his clear it is almost worse because it's a reflection of donald trump's personal ethos. why is he doing it? we do not know. we don't know -- but we know what's on their lips. racism is on donald trump's lips when he says that. how does that impact voters? it's the same border to look at colorado and charges of insurrection and say, you know, what in 18 oh what would democrats i've never done it before. stop with them in 2022 because i cannot handle this trumpism. this reminds him, the interaction reminds him, the racism reminds him, and the plays very well for joe biden next november. >> okay, just a quick chance to wish you all a very merry christmas and happy holiday. thank you so. much that is it everybody. i wish you all a very merry christmas to those of you celebrating. we will see you again next saturday at noon eastern. my friend richard lui continues our coverage right now. rage right now