brett stevens and a number of other people, make the claim about claudine gay, saying that her intellectual output was thin. she had been published in all of the top journals in her field. these definitions for what intellectual output and standards are very wily from discipline to discipline. some disciplines like economics are focused on papers where it's fine to have multiple authors and multiple people collaborating on something. other places, like history, it's more frowned upon. people are more inclined toward books over papers. it varies across fields. when you compare her within her field to people who are top scholars in her field, she stands equitably. the reason that this argument could even be made was that we are seeing the same delegitimization that we saw colin back to barack obama. that we sit goes back to everye peer that i could talk to who

was a person of color or a woman who could tell you about some circumstance in which their intellectual abilities have been questioned on the basis of their identity. >> lots more to discuss on this. i'm out of time. thank you so much for your time and your work, jelani cobb and eddie claude jr.. i'm back next weekend. inside with jen psaki starts now. well, we've got a month's worth of news in the first week of 2024. the supreme court announced that it will hear a case on trump's ballot eligibility under the 14th amendment. president biden lays out the stakes of the election in the starkest terms today. jamie raskin is here with his reaction. he's coming up first. plus, maine secretary of state shenna bellows joins me after tossing trump off the ballot in her state, it decision which is now on hold while these appeals play out. also today, with just eight days until the iowa caucuses, i am going to talk to someone who spends a lot of time in focus groups with republican primary voters, and later, wayne

lafayette air steps down justices's corruption trial gets underway in new york. we will take a look back at the damage he did and the future of america's gun lobby. e did and the future o america's gun lobby. okay, i really believe that sometimes we all just need to acknowledge how insane this moment we are living in really is. think about it this way -- friday was, of course, january 5th, one day before the third anniversary of the january 6th insurrection incited by the former president. it was also the same day as a major speech by the sitting president about the danger that the former president still poses to democracy. on that same day, the united states supreme court announced it will hear a case on whether that former president can even be on the ballot because of his role in the insurrection, all in one day. it's important to not lose sight of how we arrived at this moment and why we arrived at

this moment. the supreme court is taking up this unprecedented case because of the unprecedented actions of donald trump. that is why. we are going to spend a lot of time today talking about the specifics of that case and about the 14th amendment. even if the justices do leave donald trump on the ballot, his position is not really in doubt, is it? take trump's appeal to the supreme court earlier this week. andrew weissmann tweeted this about that filing. any normal person would lead this brief by saying, i did not engage an insurrection. since trump is not condemning it, he relegate that to a later aside. that is exactly the point. this may leave him on the ballot. we don't know. is not even denying the core argument against him. he'snot running from the insurrecon he is embracing it. he has called january 6th a beautiful day. he has referred to the rioters as patriots. he has said he will powered in

many of them. just this weekend, three years to the day since he incited that violent mob, he called on president biden to release the january 6th hostages, as he called them. that is exactly the point that president biden made in his speech on friday, that this race is between someone who supports what happened that day and someone who does not. that is what it is about. that contrasts should tell the american people what kind of precedent each of them would be. >> donald trump's campaign is about him, not america, not you. donald trump's campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. he's willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power. trump will not do what an american president must do. he refuses to denounce political violence. hear me clearly.

i will say what donald trump won't. political violence is never, ever acceptable in the united states political system, never, never, never! it has no place in a democracy, non! it can't be pro insurrectionist and pro american. >> you can't be pro insurrectionist and pro american. that's pretty straightforward. yes, the insurrection was three years ago. it's not in our past. it's very much a part of our present and our future depending on what happened. it has already become a centerpiece of the 2024 campaign. both donald trump and joe biden are essentially running on january 6th but in vastly different ways. one looks at the events of that day, the death, the destruction, the literal and figurative attack on the rule of law and celebrated. one is firmly against it. one stands with the constitution and one said he wants to suspend it. one supports democracy and one

ignores it. one embraces political violence and one rejects it. that is really what it all boils down to. this weekend has served as an important reminder of that. joining me now is congressman jamie raskin. he led the second impeachment trial of donald trump, served on the january 6th house select committee, and is now the ranking democrat on the house oversight committee. it's so great to be here with you this afternoon. happy new year to you as well! i wanted to start, congressman -- i mean, it's so important in my view to call it the craziness even we feel numb to it at times. when you hear trump call the insurrectionists hostages, as he has repeatedly done this weekend, going as far as to say president biden should release them, you were in the capitol that day. you spent the last few years working on this. how dangerous is this rhetoric? what can be done, in your view, to counter these attempts to rewrite history of that day? >> well, obviously it's a major

insult and an affront to the families of actual hostages still being held by hamas in gaza right now. look, something struck me yesterday. it was sort of the dog that didn't bark. the republicans released hundreds and hundreds of hours of security tape from a january 6th. they had months to examine it. they haven't come up with a single shot which purports to capture an antifa fighter or an fbi agent inciting the insurrection, nothing, yet they are still out there spreading propaganda and disinformation about how it was really antifa and fbi agents which, of course, would make it strange to argue that all of these people should be released and trump is going to pardon them. why would he want to pardon all

of these antifa fighters? there is no logic in their presentation. he really is characteristic of what you get from authoritarian and fascist political parties. >> no question. there is really no logic in trump's argument here other than politics, right? he is accusing biden of being a threat to democracy. that projection, which you and i both know is crazy and everyone watching knows his crazy, it's kind of working with his base. how do you combat that? do you need to combat that? should we all be combatting it? >> yeah, look, you know, they have racked the republican party. when the civil war started, lincoln said that insurrection is the negation of the basic principle of democratic government, which is that people get to choose their own rulers. they have ruined in the republican party. it started as an anti slavery, pro freedom, pro immigration, anti know nothing party and

they have reduced it to a cult of personality where donald trump even yesterday was engaging in what is essentially process labor, emt union rhetoric, saying he could've avoided the civil war by accepting the so-called crittenden compromise which was a pro slavery compromise which would have constitutionalist slavery for all-time. this is what they have done to the republican party. they have this i'm rubber, your glutes tragedy. when joe biden and the democrats call them out for the authoritarian collapse of the party, they say, no, it's you attack on democracy. we just have to go out and educate america about what actually has happened interest in the good common sense of the people that they will recognize in joe biden, an honorable

public servant who has been devoted to the common good his entire life, versus donald trump who is a huckster rip off artist, a compulsive liar, and a danger to the republic. >> hawks tree such a good name. there's no question that the speech was intended to convey on friday. there's a lot of big supreme court this week. it's understandable. it's understandable in my view, and yours as well, to be skeptical of the supreme court. they have ruled in cases related to trump, kind of against him in a number of scenarios, including one about the release of documents. how confident should people be that they can be impartial in this 14th amendment case given there is not a historic precedent, but that's the point of one facing it? >> well, it's important that the court has ruled a few times against donald trump.

the arguments he advances are so outlandish and egregious. even the people on the core who he thinks oh him do not want to completely disgrace themselves. i hope it will be the same way with section three of the 14th amendment. this is a case of major importance to the future of democracy in america. the constitution is clear, just like you have to be 35 in order to be president, just like you have to be a native born u.s. citizen even though that's going to disqualify a lot of otherwise qualified people like jennifer grand oak or on arnold schwarzenegger. you cannot have engaged in insurrection or rebellion. there are probably a few people who have essentially disqualified themselves because of their actions on january 6th. that is far more morally justifiable than it just saying, you know, maxwell frost or aoc

can run for president because they are too young. they will do their essential job by reading the text of the constitution, understanding what the original purposes and meaning our, and implementing it. donald trump inoperative it in the direction. on the contrary, he was the ringleader and the mastermind of the whole saying. >> it's so hard to get into trump's mind. i don't try to do it too often. it seems really clear that he has been trying to pressure the court in some ways. what he said in the wake of the news, i hope we get fair treatment. if we don't, our country is in big trouble. do you hear that as attempts to intimidate or pressure justices? how should we be hearing that? >> yeah, you can already here in the right-wing media about how justice kavanaugh owes him

and we all owe donald trump. that is a lobster form of justice. it's not important. it's not important what the law says but what is important is what judge you know. that, of course, is an essential attack on the rule of law and the idea that we are governed by the constitution as the supreme law of the land. they are saying these people who trump put on the court over him. i think there has been a very coherent argument made already that justice thomas needs to recuse himself because he is obviously biased by virtue of his wife's participation in the insurrection or politics of january 6th and the weeks leading up to it. in an ideal world, he would have adjusters who would be able to recognize that. this court doesn't accept any sort of binding ethics regime where they would turn it over to other judges to determine

whether or not they are acting in an objective way. >> thank you so much, congressman jamie raskin. thank you for joining me this afternoon. >> thank you for having me. happy new year to you. coming up, i will ask maine secretary of state shenna bellows how the supreme court's position to take up colorado's 14th amendment case could impact her decision to remove trump from the ballot. later, trump's political calendar and legal calendar are about to collide in a very big way. andrew weissmann joins me on a high stakes hearing he is set to attend here this weekend. we are back after a quick break. end. we are back after a quic break. vicks vapostick. and try vicks vaposhower for steamy vicks vapors.

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join the millions of people taking back♪ ♪eir privacy ♪ ♪ >> -- or move donald trump from the ballot under the 14th amendment started in colorado, but it decision late last month by the maine secretary of state certainly upped the pressure on the supreme court to act. and life wasn't exactly easy for china below since she removed trump from the ballot. bellows and our family and staff have faced threats and harassment since making the decision. her home was even swatted over the holidays, which basically means someone made false

emergency calls prompting a large police presidents to erroneously respond to her house. but she stood firm in her decision, which is summed up in her original ruling. she wrote, quote, i am mindful that no secretary of state has ever deprived of presidential candidates of ballot access based on section 3 of the 14th amendment. i'm also mindful, however, that no presidential candidate has ever before engaged in insurrection. that is the point of all of this. joining me now is maine secretary of state shenna bellows. secretary bellows, it's so great to see. you thank you for taking the time. i just wanted to start with the news that broke on friday night, with the supreme court announcing it will take up the colorado case. and we are all trying to understand kind of what this means. help us understand that this is putting your decision on hold, but it is not necessarily binding on your decision, if i understand it correctly. is it possible that the supreme court could rule against colorado and your decision could still stay in place? is that in the realm of possibility? >> good morning, jen, and thank

you for having me. it's a snowy day here in the great state of maine. so, i want to share a little bit about the process. now, in my decision, and folks can read on the secretary of state website, it's 34 pages. i voluntarily suspended the effect of my decision, pending the appeals process to superior court. now, the main matter is before superior court now, and mr. trump appealed last week. as is his due process right under the constitution. this is the process. in maine, any registered main voter can bring a challenge, the secretary of state must hold a hearing, issue a decision, and that initiated that process. now, the supreme court taking up the matter in colorado may impact maine. of course, the supreme court is the final arbiter in

constitutional law, and all of us, every single election official in this country, swore an oath to uphold the constitution and the rule of law. so, the supreme court may issue a ruling that impacts main, meanwhile, however, that does not suspend the legal process here in our state. so, i have voluntarily suspended the fact of my decision, and as we look at deadlines, maine's presidential primary is march 5th. the federal requirements, every military and overseas voter is entitled to begin receiving ballots on january 20th. in maine, we have this really wonderful law where every citizen in our state can begin engaging in what we call no excuse absentee voting. ballots are made available to every main, or 30 days prior to election date. so that's february 5th. now, maine law contemplates what happens if you print a ballot with a candidate who is

disqualified after printing, or something else happens? so historically in maine, there have been candidates when the ballots have been printed, people have been voting, and there's been a tragic incident were a candidate might passed away, or they may change their minds, and some candidates have withdrawn after pointing the bell it. so, i shared with the court and it is in the last page of my decision that we are voluntarily suspending the fact of the decision because the election administration moves forward. right? we don't print ballots without a name on them, and then people start voting, and then we print other ballots. that's not how it works. >> so, it's really important that -- >> sorry. >> it's okay, you said a lot there. it's super helpful information, it sounds like there's a range of scenarios that the supreme court could rule. they could rule in a ruling that includes, maine they could rule in one that doesn't

include maine. you're planning for different scenarios. trump is on the ballot, obviously, though, if they rule in a way that kicks him off the ballot, there would be an adjustment, i assume. of course. >> 100 percent. we will follow the law and the constitution, no matter what. that was what was so important. so i made my decision based exclusively on the record in the hearing, the way the evidence and arguments were made. i follow the law and the constitution as is my duty, and that's what election officials do every day across this country. >> i want to ask you, you were one of many officials who have received threats against you and your family, i'm sure that's been very difficult. has that level of vitriol surprised you? your part of the main community, you probably know and a lot of people in your community. how have you felt personally about that?

>> i was prepared for a strong reaction, potentially, for people to disagree with my decision. but there are processes for disagreements under the constitutional rule of law. mr. trump has the right to appeal to courts, if people think that flawed maine delegates too much authority to the secretary, there is a process we're amendment of the law. i wasn't prepared for the aggressive, abusive, and threatening communications targeting not only me, but members of my family and people who work for me. i wasn't prepared for swatting. but i will tell you this, now than a week has passed. i believe that violent rhetoric, those threatening communications, they are designed to scare and to silence people. they're designed to send a message to people, it's dangerous to do their job. to hold the constitution. most people, like the country song goes, most people are good,

and the overwhelming support that i've received, including people who tell me -- yesterday i was talking to one individual who is in my community, and he said, i'm a trump or. but we're good. and i think that is really important. we can agree to disagree on key debates on issues, but we are together in community and really here in maine, i've been very heartened by the level of support, including the people who disagree with me. >> that is so good to hear, and also, to your credit, you have not been silenced in any way. but i'm happy to hear that as well. maine secretary of state shenna bellows, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. coming up next, donald trump referred to our friend andrew weissmann as this -- does this man look like a slime ball to you? i don't think so. we're going to give andrew a chance to respond, and talk about a lot of legal stuff when he joins me next. we will be right back.

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been previewing the ways in which donald trump's political and legal calendars have been on a collision course. and now, it's about to actually happen. over the next couple of weeks, as the people of iowa and new hampshire cast their very first votes in the 2024 election, trump plans to be in court a lot. on tuesday, we will hear oral arguments in a d.c. federal appeals court over trump's claim of presidential immunity, which trump plans to attend in person. two days later, he's also set to attend closing arguments in his civil fraud trial in new york. then it's back to politics briefly for the iowa caucus on january 15th. the day after that, trump is set to go on trial in a second civil defamation case filed by e. jean carroll. after the jury in the first case found trump liable for sexual abuse. and according to the new york times, trump wants to attend that trial as well.

even though the new hampshire primary is the following week. joining me now is someone who knows a lot about all of these things, and that is former general counsel to the fbi, andrew weissmann, one of everybody's favorite legal eagles. andrew, i want to talk about this very high stakes day in d.c. on tuesday. this hearing in the d.c. apparels court over presidential immunity, it's a big deal. so once those oral arguments take place this week, once it's done, how soon do you expect them to roll? what does the calendar look like on that case, potentially? >> well, they can take as much time as they want, but there's a data point to suggest that they're going to move very quickly. and that is the schedule that they set to hear this case. this was, in legal terms, really lightning speed. all of the briefing was done over the holidays, they had full briefing by january 2nd, and then one week later for this tuesday, they have oral arguments. so i would be surprised if we

do not have a decision within a week or two after that. and the main issue there is i think there's no question that donald trump is going to lose on his argument that he is somehow absolved of all criminal possible criminal liability, because he was the former president. i think that's a dead loser. the main issue is that currently there's a full state of the trial a date, and so that was scheduled and technically is still scheduled for march 4th. but the thing i'm keeping my eye on is what happens to that state? does the d.c. circuit do anything to tighten up any steps that donald trump can take after it rules to delay things further? or whether they're going to allow the trial court to move forward quickly. >> yeah, i mean, as you've raised many times and taught a lot of us about, a lot of this is about using legal tactics to

delay, in pursuit of his goal of delaying all of this. and you're out with his great piece on msnbc.com this morning, about the ways in which the appeals court could basically and stick this whole process. so talk us through what that looks like. process >> sure. so to understand this, as my colleague merrick mccord says, there is something called a interlocutory appeal. sorry to get into the weeds. but the normal role in a criminal case is that nothing goes up to an appellate court until the case is over. until there's a verdict, you have a trial, and the jury decides one way or the other what should happen. that's the normal time that there's an appeal. there are very few exceptions to that. and this apparently falls into an exception, and i say apparently because it is really not clear that this should have been allowed for what's called this interim or interlocutory appeal. and so it seems pretty clear that the d.c. circuit is going

to talk about that on tuesday. they actually issued an order to the party is saying, please come prepared to talk about a variety of issues that were raised by friends of the court briefs, where this was raised by one of the friends of the court. in a brief about whether this state should be in effect. whether they're allowed to bring this up now. so stay tuned for the discussion on tuesday about that issue. >> that's an interesting -- a big thing to watch, it sounds like. okay, now, andrew, i have to let you go without asking you, because i'm sure you saw the former president called you jack smith's slime ball boss. anyone knows who thinks that's insane, or anyone who watches you. but i want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. >> sure. i don't think there's anything that i can say that hasn't just been better side by the maine secretary of state about these kinds of ad hominem attacks. i would sort of separate it out into two things. one is this sort of use of adjectives and adverbs, that is

not legal argument. that is not a factual arguments. anymore than if you say the election was stolen. you need to have facts, adjectives and adverbs is not a way of arguing, especially for someone who has been the leader of the free world, let alone anyone else. and i think that's really important on the substance which is to suggest that somehow i am jack smith's boss. again, where are the facts of that? i've had zero communications with jack smith or his team. they are independents, both within the department of justice and certainly for legal analysts on msnbc. >> well, that is a very disciplined and graceful response. totally expected from you. andrew weissmann, thank you as always for joining. us coming up next, nikki haley is still a long shot to win the republican nomination. but she sure has gotten donald trump's attention. plus, what is the nra without the ceo? we're about to find out, after a quick break. t to find out,ft aer a quick break. a quick break. c odt,

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now just eight days away from the iowa caucuses. and nikki haley's path to the nomination is still incredibly narrow. but, donald trump seems a little bit distressed, a little stressed out about her uptick in the polls. he's out with his first ad attacking her in new hampshire, and he repeatedly went after her this weekend in iowa. and that is indicative of the sort of asymmetrical fight in this republican primary. while trump is able to go after his opponents as hard as he wants, when other candidates go after him, they risk turning off tons of primary voters who have a lot of sympathy for him. just ask chris christie. and a listen to this voter in a recent focus group, talking about how haley spoke out against trump after january 6t >> i was extremely disappointed in her running forcor and politica cover when,u know, the whole january 6th thing happened. i was extremely disappointed

because i ike she was kind of hitchingher shining star to trump and the, you, first sitrouble she jumped ship because she didn't want to die politically. for it comes down to integrity and all these people that we're talkingabt that aren't trump, i'm treating them as maybe possibly ing mates, but even that's a long shot. for me, i don't think he likes anybody on that stage. >> joining me now is sara -- she's been conducting focus groups of gop primary voters and interview the gentleman who just hurt their. she's the publisher of the bulwark, the host of the focus group podcast where she talks a lot of both these, and the executive director of the republican accountability project. okay, sarah. so you were talking to a lot of gop primary voters, more than most people. and you referred, in a recent podcast, which made me laughed, to some of them as nikki curious. but does she have a real path here, and if so, how narrow is it? what's the reality?

>> so here is how and you play would work. we call it the haley mary play. which means she comes in second and iowa, so she comes in second in iowa, she's a performing expectations, and she is beating ron desantis. and then they go into new hampshire, and the reason that trump is just a little bit worried about this is that in new hampshire, she is polling as close to him as anybody is in any state. because new hampshire is a state tailor-made for a lot of and cleared and independents to vote in the gop primary, and nikki haley does much better with those kinds of voters than she does with base butters. and so, the one play here is to win new hampshire, nikki haley winds new hampshire and she shifts the narrative. it would be like what joe biden did in south carolina. suddenly he wins south carolina, and the whole party shifts in his direction. now, i've got 1 million reasons i could give you why the republican party is not like that, and i do that see that scenario repeating itself on

the republican side. but that is the play. there's a narrative shift of eras voters in the early primary states to swing to her, because she would be disrupting one of the things that trump really has going for him, which is the inevitability new. people who are polling so far ahead that people expect him to be the nominee, and so the theory would be that she cracks that inevitability narrative and there's a big move towards her. >> so you're telling me there's a chance, and it small. so, one of the things which you just mentioned, and i just talked about, and you've talked about as it relates to your focus groups, is this kind of tricky challenge for trump. including haley, nothing really kind of works. i mean, the question that i have for you, and we've talked about this before, is there any argument, if we were just going back in time, that would work against trump? that would resonate with some of these republican voters you've been talking to? or it's just, there's never really been a good option from the beginning and there still isn't now.

>> it's less an argument and more of a percent. i think that what you are seeing in this primary is just a dose of political talent among these challengers. ron desantis, there was a time where there was sort of a big chunk of the republican party that wanted what i would say is to move on from trump. they wanted an alternative. and they were very at the time desantis curious. i did tons of focus groups in the beginning of 2023 listening to republican voters who are super interested in desantis and wanted to see more of him, and thought he might be a better alternative to trump. the problem was that ron desantis turned out to be a lousy candidate. he was not a good politician. he didn't have the requisite political talents. and i think nikki haley, the reason that she has been sort of emerged as a better alternative is that she is politically talented. her biggest problem, she's actually got three major problems. one, if you listen to the focus groups, the way they talk about her is they say i don't hate

her. and so they kind of like her, okay, but they don't affirmatively really like her. they say i don't paid her, which is not the same thing as liking someone. the second thing is that they don't believe that she can beat trump. when you talk to these republican voters, these early primary states, there's so sure trump's going to win. there is not even a sense among them that one of these alternatives could really breakthrough, and that includes nikki. and the third problem is, and this one is generally surprising. is how many people in the focus groups actually want to talk about not wanting to vote for a woman for president. we just did one this week, and this was the most dominant i've seen this, we are five out of the seven participants, these are two-time trump voters, said they wouldn't like to vote for a woman. they rather vote for a man than a woman when it comes to the presidency. and that's just a tough thing to overcome. >> that is attempting to overcome. before i let you go, and i run

out of time, you did talk to some two time trump voters that now seem to be maybe voting for biden, or open to it. he's been doubling down on friday, and of course tomorrow, again on the democracy argument. playing up kind of the contrast of january 6th. is that animating enough for these voters? is that something in your view the biden team should be continuing to press and doubled down on? >> along with some other issues, like abortion, i talk to trump voters who are open to supporting biden, or at least not voting for trump. that's really the key. one of the main things where they said never again will i vote for this guy was january 6th. there were a lot of voters in the republican party who held their nose and voted for trump twice because the republicans, but after january 6th, they said never again. so i think that it is good to talk about january 6th and what trump did then, because right now biden is very top of mind for voters. these swing voters, they're not

democrats. they don't always love joe biden. but, they've sort of forgotten what they really hate about trump. if we put trump front and center for them, they go oh yeah, i don't want anything to do with that guy. >> well, that's some good advice from you. someone who spent a lot of time with republican voters. thank you so much. my thoughts on the downfall of an nra ceo, and the dangerous culture he's behind. we'll be right back.

>>, wayne lapierre,,. >> amid a whole host of legal troubles, largely years in the making. and just as his civil trial in new york was getting underway. to understand all this, it's important to go back to the summer of 2020. new york attorney general letitia james sued lapierre and three other leaders at the nra. alleging that they violated

nonprofit laws and misused millions of dollars in nra funds for their own lavish lifestyles. some of these details are pretty blatant. according to the lawsuit, the nra spent over half 1 million dollars on private flights for the lapierre, including eight family trips to the bahamas. -- more than $100,000 annually for what? who knows. and they expensed over $100,000 in membership fees for a golf club. the new york lawsuit originally sought to oust lapierre from leadership, and that's clearly not an issue anymore. but the jurors in this trial will determine if he's liable, and how much lapierre and his associates will have to repay the nra. now, well that may temporarily add a bit to the dwindling nra bank accounts, this is all kind of the latest in what has been a stream of scandals that have contributed to this city hollowing out of what was one of the most influential and feared lobbying bodies in the

country. the scandal has taken a acute toll in the nra, there's no question. if you look back to 2016, the nra's revenue since then has dropped by 44%. membership has plummeted to 4.2 million after being nearly 6 million just five years ago. and while the nra filed for bankruptcy in texas in an attempt to duck the lawsuit, insiders told the new york times the organization might be reaching a point where a legitimate bankruptcy filing is necessary. and although the power of the nra is evaporating, it's so important to remember the image will hold at their legacy still has on american life. first, remember the way that the second amendment is talked about today? that was not the way it was understood for decades. the nra didn't begin as the lobbying arm for gun ownership. it was a marksmanship club found by union veterans after the civil war. but in the century that followed, it transformed into a concerted and well funded effort to recast how the second amendment was understood.

just take a listen to a republican nominated chief justice of the supreme court talk about the second amendment back in 1991. >> this has been one of the greatest pieces of fraud, i repeat the word fraud, on the american public. by special interest groups that i've ever seen in my lifetime. a well regulated militia. if the militia which was going to be the state army was going to be well regulated, why shouldn't 16, 17, 18, or any age persons be regulated in the use of arms the way an automobile is regulated? >> to use just as warren burger's language, the nra with the help of wayne lapierre solidified that fraud eight years later in the direct aftermath of one of the time was the worst school shooting in american history, columbine. following that history -- were two students shot and killed 13 of their classmates and injured 20 other people,

wayne lapierre and other nra leaders hopped on a crisis call to decide how the organization would handle the situation. and according to the tapes released by npr in 2021, the nra was in a panic. they considered canceling their convention, that would be held just days later, a few miles away from columbine, in denver. even pitched the idea of starting a 1 million dollar victims fund. but ultimately, this is the key piece, the strategy they landed on is the one we have seen from the nra and its allies ever since. defiance. despite the urging of the victims families to cancel the convention, the nra pressed on, despite protest. and an array president charlton hesston deliver these words to crying any regulation on gun ownership. >> we cannot, we must not let tragedy lay waste to the most rare and hard one human rights in history. >> we will not relinquish it, or be silenced about it, or be told do not come here, you are

unwelcome in your own land. >> the strategy became to double down. to never give an inch. and in tragedy after tragedy after a horrible tragedy, that followed the columbine shooting, the nra and its acolytes never wavered from that mission. even 13 years after columbine, at sandy hook elementary school, where 21st graders and six teachers and staff were gunned down, the problem could still never be about the guns. >> the only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> morgan's. the answer for the nra and its right-wing allies was more guns. after 21st grade children were

murdered in their classroom. and the over decades since with each mass shooting that has become just commonplace in american life, that's still the answers they give. just listen to republican reaction to yet another school shooting that happened earlier this week at a high school in iowa. >> i don't support infringing the rights of law-abiding citizens with respect to the ability to exercise their constitutional rights. i know these things can be used to try to target things, and a lot of the things that are proposed would not have even prevented any of these things. >> we can go and take away a certain kind of gun today. and that would make you feel better today. but a week from now, there would be another shooting. >> it's so surprising to see it here. but we'll have to get over it. we have to move forward. >> get over it. those responses you just heard were all courtesy of decades of work by wayne lapierre and his once personal slush fund, the nra.

-- was on the way out, and the organization he helped build is a shell of what it once was, the damage of her legacy lives on in america. coming up, an exciting announcement on who will be joining me on tomorrow night's show, so stay with us. 's show, so stay with us. show, so stay with us. th falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand. and wakes up feeling like himself. get the rest to be your best with non-habit forming zzzquil. ♪ ♪ he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (music)

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we all have heroes in our lives. and for a kid like me, who's had 13 operations. and can now walk. you might think, that i'd say my hero is my doctor or nurse. or even my physical therapist, and they are. but there's someone else,

who's a hero to me and 1.5 million other kids and counting. you may be surprised, but my hero is you. is people just like you, who give every month. to shriners hospitals for children. and because of heroes like you. i can do things now that were impossible before. and i can walk. all of this is made possible because of heroes like you. who go online to loveshriners.org right now. when you do, we'll send you this adorable love to the rescue blanket as a thank you. and a reminder of all the kids whose hero you are. each and every month. please call or go to loveshriners.org right away. that does it for me today. i'll be back tomorrow night at eight pm eastern, we'll sit down with house speaker nancy pelosi. but for now, stay with you, or