freezing cold temperatures, one

last des moines register poll a flurry of final campaign events. it's all totally normal, except for the minor detail that the front runner is a four times indicted wannabe dictator. his whites. two of my favorite political experts are standing by as we countdown to tomorrow's iowa caucus. plus, congressman adam schiff here with reaction to trump's wild argument for presidential immunity. also today, the law from -- neal katyal on the intimidation and harassment facing basically every -- and later, my day in delaware at biden campaign headquarters. as democrats freak out ahead of the general election, i'll talk to some of the brains behind the biden strategy. well, it's finally here. the first contents of the 2024

election cycle. just about 31 hours from now, caucus goers in iowa brave record cold conditions. i'm talking sub-zero temperatures with life-threatening wind chills, the cast their votes for the candidate of their choice. and last night, we've got our best prediction of what that might look like. every four years, campaign staff, supporters, and the candidates themselves wait for the final poll to come out from the des moines register. it's not always an exact predictor of the outcome, but it offers a sense of where things stand. who's up, who's down. who has the momentum, just days out from the first nominating context. i actually remember the exact moment in 2000 for the polls showed john kerry leading in the final days before the caucus. then he went on to win. we literally had to fold -- hold our phones, our blackberry, outside of a bus. that's the time we were living through. there wasn't quite as much dramthis time around. trump is sitting at a dominant 40%, according to this poll. nikki haley is sitting at 20%, which means she narrowed the

gap by about seven points over the last month, and this time, she edged out florida governor ron desantis for second place. but there are also some not-so-great signs for nikki haley in this poll as well. chief among them is what appears to be a giant enthusiasm gap between her and trump. and enthusiasm is important when it's freezing cold outside. overall, it's been a pretty solid week for haley. perhaps peaking on wednesday, when former new jersey governor chris christie announced he was bowing out of the race. christie's absence means we have lost one candidate who was actually willing to full-throatedly and wholeheartedly come out against donald trump. but for nikki haley, his exit means she will likely gain support. mainly in new hampshire, where she may get a boost big enough to actually surpass trump in that state. so, is there a world in which nikki haley is a strong second for tomorrow with the help of democrats crossing over and independents voting for her?

that she winds new hampshire and makes us all a little bit more interesting for a couple of weeks? it's definitely possible. but what is more likely is that tomorrow night is the start of another trump coronation. and the front runner did finally make it to iowa last night, after spending much of the week not exactly barnstorming across iowa's 99 counties. he hasn't been doing that at all. but doing his own version of campaigning, instead, in the courtroom. but tomorrow, he is back on the ballot. i just want to pause on that for a simple -- to make a simple point for a second. because, his name is about to be back on the ballot after january 6th, after a federal indictment over his efforts to overturn the election? after a federal indictment over hoarding nuclear secrets at his house? people probably have forgotten about that one. after being found liable for sexual abuse? after a mugshot, after all the court appearances. he's going to be back on the ballot after all the echoing of adolf hitler. and after claiming he

wants to be a dictator himself. starting tomorrow, starting with this iowa caucus, in the freezing cold, all of that is officially on the ballot in america. and it's the tiniest sliver of the country that makes up the republican primary and the electorate in the state of iowa, is likely going to decide if this poll is true, that's their guy. despite all of that. and maybe nikki haley does make a run at him. maybe this does get a little bit interesting. but if it doesn't, if donald trump comes out of these early states the clear and presumptive nominee, well, that's going to say a lot about who the majority of the republican base want to see in office. which is going to say a lot about the country, too. this election is an enormous test. a test of our priorities, our values, of the way we look at democracy itself. and it all starts tomorrow. joining me now are some of my favorite people to talk about politics, and other things. dan pfeiffer is a former senior adviser to

president barack obama, and author of the message box on substack. tim miller is the former communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign, and writer-at-large for the bulwark. and garrett hague is an msnbc senior capitol hill correspondent, and he is in iowa for us this hour. so garrett, let me start with you. because you've got some reporting to do there. you've got trp campaign event preparing to happen behind you. give us a sense. there's this new poll out, give us a lay of the land othe ground. how is the trump team and others feeling about where things stand at this point? >> jen, they're booed by the same numbers you just talked about. particularly that enthusiasm number which they feel like is evidenced even by the crowd behind me here. these events that donald trump has been doing in iowa are much smaller than his traditional mega rallies, but it's still a packed house. when it feels like temperatures of negative 35 degrees, the feels like here, that tells you something about how committed these trump supporters are. now, a very

excited voter and a regular voter is still about the same once they are in the room caucusing tomorrow night. but those numbers all back up what the trump campaign's theory of the case has been all along, which is right now, he is presumptively incumbent within the republican party. he is, despite all of those things you laid out, still the leader of basically a movement within this party. not just a traditional candidate. and they think they can harness that. i suppose if you're nikki haley and you're looking at this in terms of the enthusiasm, you're trying to find something to look at that gives you a little bit of hope. a lot of what we find from these trump supporters is that they are first-time caucus goers. that cuts both ways. these are people who are not necessarily part of the process technically, they're coming out to be new voters, maybe they're younger, maybe they're new here, maybe they were politically disengaged. it creates a bigger universe of people for him to reach. i've talked to a lot of those folks here today, theoretically there's an opportunity to go more into the show and less into the voting. but all the trump supporters i've talked to since i got on the ground here in iowa have been telling me versions of the

same thing. there's no temperature too cold for them to get in their cars and vote for him and caucus room on monday night. and i think that's what that polling is indicated and that's what we are looking like at this republican primary process, as it does get kicked off tomorrow night. >> thank you so much. one of the things that's been so stunning to me is the crazier things he says, the more people seem to embrace him, according to these polls. thank you, we will let you get back to reporting. so, dan, let me talk to you first hear. because you and i remember well what it's like, and tim does too, to a different degree, what it's like to kind of be hitting refresh on the poller coaster of what these polls look like, and what it's an indicator of. which is often momentum. the enthusiasm gap issue here seems pretty big, but what stuck out to you about these polling numbers? >> well, i think this poll is just kind of telling the whole story of this republican primary. donald trump is, as garrett said, functionally the incumbent. nikki haley has consolidated the small faction of the republican party that's anti trump, like in this poll, half of her supporters are coming from independents. more than three quarters of them

disapprove of trump. that is not a formula to win a republican primary. it is a formula that could possibly, maybe, if you squint, get you to first place in new hampshire, but then it's ball game. so, i think this poll is very bad news for haley in the primary. i think it's actually bad news for trump in the general election. donald trump is the incumbent. he should actually be getting more than 50% of the vote. against these sort of subpar candidates, and the fact that a quarter of the people who told your pollster that they were going to go out and likely caucus in sub-zero weather, say that they will vote for joe biden over donald trump in the general election. so it's not all good for donald trump, it may be good news for winning a primary, but there are some warning signs for the general election. >> there is some slippage too, what -- talked about as well in some of the coverage. tim, i want to ask, you i want to go back to new hampshire, but i did want to ask you. sometimes surprising things happen, and this is all kind of a race for second place. let's be clear, trump is headed to the nomination, barring something crazy happening. which it

could. but desantis and vivek ramaswamy have both kind of invested money, resources, staff, organizing on the ground, that's important when it comes to cold weather too. is there anything you're watching for that could be surprising here, or not really? >> well, i think in theory, at this point, desantis beating haley will be kind of surprising. i don't know what the long term ramifications are of that, it seems like -- side of new hampshire. i want to throw out, while we are in the dark place, maybe the surprise of tomorrow night might be donald trump doing better than these polls say. i think that would maybe be the most likely thing. vivek, i wouldn't be surprised to see vivek and desantis to -- the bottom fall out under that. it's very cold, they're not going to, when trump and vivek have been a little -- the last

few days. if you're watching mega social media, which i suffer through, -- >> thank you for doing that, for all of us. >> you're welcome. so it's possible that if desantis drops, his numbers go up towards 60. i think that's more likely to be surprising than there to be some late big wave for one of the other candidates. >> yes, it's also such a small population of people. i mean a record huge turnout is like 186,000. it could be lower than that with the cold, or even in, that it's not a huge number of people. so it could swing quickly. dan, i want to kind of go forward here because this is what this is all about. and you wrote this piece for substack this week, suggesting christie's exit this week, which was a good moment for haley, could put her over the top in the granite state. break it down for us, and also talk to me a little bit about the states after new hampshire. because that's the key thing. new hampshire is a different electorate than most of the states post new hampshire. >> sure. you sort of have to pick your poll. there's a cnn poll that had haley down a seven, there was a boston globe poll

that had haley down as 20, but if we presume that haley was -- is within striking distance of trump, christie dropping out, 12% of his vote, the overwhelming second choice of christie voters is nikki haley. so you could add that up to a number that could get above trump. especially if she gets a little bit of momentum coming out of iowa, this is all very theoretical. but what we have to recognize is in new hampshire, it is maybe the least maga state in the entire country within the republican primary electorate. because one, it is one of the least religious states, the percentage of new hampshire voters that are evangelical christian was 20% in 2016, in iowa it was about 60, and then south carolina, which comes next, is 72%. what makes new hampshire very unique is that undeclared voters or independents can walk in on primary day and pick republican ballot or a democratic ballot. and all those independents are certainly going to vote in the republican primary, because there's not a primary that

counts on the democratic side. so this is a perfect environment for haley to beat trump. and after that, you don't run into another state like that ever again. south carolina, very republican. even though it's her home state, she's been down 30 points in recent polls. and then you get to the deep south, where trump won the whole thing in 2016, and now the rules are even more favorable to the front runner, because trump, his campaign very cleverly changed a lot of the delegate allocation rules so the people who comes in first will now get almost all of the delegates. so it's really hard to see a path, even if haley wins new hampshire, unless somehow she can demonstrate a broadening of her coalition, which today, we have not seen. >> we have just seconds left here, tim. is your bet that desantis is still in the race on tuesday? >> maybe until wednesday. i don't think he makes it to new hampshire, though. he takes a few days to figure it out, and i've been on some losing campaigns where it took a few days before reality

sunk in. >> to digest. reality can be hard. dan pfeiffer and miller, thank you both so much for taking the time. congressman adam schiff joins me after a quick break. i'll ask him about donald trump's repeated and outrageous claim that he's immune from prosecution. we are just getting started today, and we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. ♪♪ here's to... one year bolder. ♪♪ ♪boost♪ nutrition for now. at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make

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caucuses, i can help but reflect on something that donald trump said right before the caucuses back in 2016. >> i have the most loyal people. did you ever see that? where i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue, and shoot somebody, and i wouldn't lose any voters. okay? it's like incredible. >> so eight years ago, it was i could shoot someone and not lose votes, and now it's i could shoot someone and not be prosecuted. >> do you agree with your lawyers, what they said on tuesday, that you should not be prosecuted or

could not be prosecuted if you were to kill a political opponent? >> if a president of the united states does not have immunity, he will be totally ineffective. >> somehow donald trump's response to that question was not no, seal team six should not be able to take out political opponents. joining me now is democratic congressman adam schiff, who served on the house january six committee and was the lead manager during trump's first impeachment. so congressman schiff, thank you for your time this afternoon. i just -- it's so crazy what he's saying, which is why it is so important to point it out. so i really wanted to ask you first, if trump, what he is calling for here, if this were what were to happen, that there would be -- no president would be held accountable for their actions, what would that mean exactly? >> well, it is every bit as crazy as it sounds. it means that a president could order

the assassination of his political opponents, and not be held accountable. it means that a president could threaten the life of a senate president with impeachment proceedings and not be held accountable. essentially, it would do, to quote justice gilbert, it would turn the constitution into a suicide pact. and this is not a suicide pact, it doesn't require its own destruction. but to interpret the way donald trump interpreted the constitution, it would nullify any of the protections the american people have from a despot or despotism. i think the tougher question, frankly, the court of appeals might have to deal with, is should they decide this before there's a verdict in the case, that might be the closer question. but on the merits of this, is a president immune while in office from being prosecuted for committing crimes when he leaves office, the answer is clearly no. and i think even with the current supreme court, they're going to conclude no, you don't have that kind of immunity. >> and even if the legal -- the courts rule, as

you just said, and i think that's what a lot of legal experts are suggesting, it's still giving us some insight into donald trump's thinking. and kind of what he thinks his powers would be if you were president. how does that sit with you, and what should people know about what that reflects? >> that's absolutely right. and remember, i don't have the quote exactly right, but he essentially said that article two gives him the power to do whatever he wants. as president of the united states, there is no limitation to his power, authority, immunity, or capability to tear down our institutions, to do whatever he wants. and this is quite the terrifying thing about him running for president again, which is, he would start from the low point he ended. he would begin with insurrection, that is, when he started out, he had at least some people of stature. he got rid of them for

people of no stature, he got rid of them in turn for people who are sycophants, and though there would be no boundaries, no guardrails, no nothing. and he's made it absolutely plain, he will be dictator on day one and that's the day way he wants it. >> the insight into how he's going to approach this is so important, which is why want to talk to you about it. if you believe the polls, there was a new poll that came out overnight, nbc news, that basically shows that despite all of this, republican voters in the primary are set to register their approval for trump. they're set to say, basically, this is his guy. despite all his indictments, his comments about echoing hitler, i'm just wondering. as we sit here the day before the iowa caucus, what you make of that, and what it tells us about the republican electorate? >> well, it tells us that i think there's been a real failure of leadership within the republican party. these candidates that are running as trump aren't willing to take him on fully, they're not willing to go after him. they seem to be competing for whoever can come in second, not

even with an eye to be his running mate, but an eye to run four years from now. and because none of them are willing to call him out on what he is, which is a profound danger to our country, somehow people have normalized his conduct, his behavior. others aren't willing to call him out on his 91 felony charges, well, they must be okay or they must have something wrong or political about them. so i think there's been a total failure of leadership among the republican party, and i also think, though, that in terms of the presidential election and the ultimate general election contest, it's going to be very important for president biden to continue emphasizing everything he's doing to meet economic challenges americans are facing. for those who are in the thrall of donald trump, they're not going to be persuaded. but there are still millions and millions of people who are undecided. which is remarkable, but it's true. and

i think appealing to those voters by meeting their economic needs for affordable housing, for affordable childcare, to rebuild broadband and infrastructure, these are powerful cases to be made for president biden to win over voters who are yet to be decided. >> definitely something, a lot of issues people care deeply about. before i let you go, i did want to ask you about something you've been talking a lot about, which is the fact that donald trump has confirmed that foreign governments paid his companyies seven point $8 million while he was in office. that's just scratching the surface, as you and others have made the point. of all things to worry about in a second term, we've talked about some of them. are we underestimating this foreign influence on trump, or kind of what this desire to make more money on his behalf could mean in terms of his actions in a second term? >> i don't think we're underestimating it at all, and i thought that the biggest compromise of donald trump when it came to vladimir putin was trump tower. moscow trump tower. this was going to be the

most lucrative project of his life, when he was running in 2016 he lied about having business interest in russia. even while his attorney, michael cohen, was on the phone with the kremlin trying to make that deal happen. and, you know, his view is that he'd be a fool to criticize putin or stand up to putin when he stands to make so much money from that deal. and so whether it's moscow trump tower, or its money from the gulf nations, it's always about money with donald trump. and always about donald trump and not about the national interest. so yes, these numbers, these -- rents that he collected from these nations that want to curry favor with him while he was president, that is just, i think, the beginning of the kind of grift and graph we would see if he got another chance at office. >> follow the money of the grift. thank you so much, congressman adam schiff, for joining me this afternoon. i appreciate you taking the time. >> thank you. >> up next, threats of violence against

trump's perceived enemies. it seems to be happening almost daily at this point. the latest victim, the judge overseeing his civil fraud trial. the law firm of weissmann and katyal is standing by, and they're coming up next. we will be right back. up next. we will be right back. it's the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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public officials have recently been the victims of swatting attacks at their homes. meaning that police responded to false claims that a life-threatening crime was in progress. only to discover that the call was a hoax. of course, these are hoaxes that put innocent people's lives at risk, gi that police are misled into conducting massive raids on the false pretense that they are confronting violent criminals. and given the political climate, it's no surprise that a majority of the recent victims are people trump has called out by name. people like special counsel jack smith, judge tanya chutkan, maine secretary of state shenna bellows, and most recently, judge arthur engoron,

among others. the perpetrators of these swatting calls may be lone wolves, but their actions fit a disturbing pattern. their choice of targets, as well as the prevalence, sophistication even at times, and timing of their attacks all suggests they're picking their cues from donald trump. and their actions are consistent with the culture of intimidation that trump is deliberately trying to foster as he wages a retribution campaign to recapture the white house. joining me now is our in-house law firm, we have -- the former acting u.s. solicitor general, andrew weissmann is the former general counsel of the fbi and a senior member of special counsel robert mueller's team. so andrew, let me start with you. because even though trump is not directly responsible for these swatting attacks, that we've seen, of course, this is a culture he's created. and as a person who served in law enforcement for a long time, i want to ask you about what law enforcement can actually do? because it feels like it's just exploded, these swatting attacks over the last couple of weeks. >> that's absolutely

true. it's certainly the case that law enforcement can investigate and prosecute as they have done with respect to a person who threatened judge chutkan. while these attacks on prosecutors and judges is obviously very concerning, i am keeping my eye on what the courts are going to do to protect witnesses and jurors. because, those are the people who, where this need for deterrence matters. i can't believe i'm saying this, but i go back to my days of prosecuting gambino genovese and colombo family members in new york city. what we did for witnesses is we had a law enforcement presence, we had the witness security program, for jurors. we had anonymous and sequestered jurors. it is remarkable to me that we are

going to be talking about that. those kinds of steps, when we are talking about a -- what should be a sort of white-collar case against somebody who was the former president of the united states. but those steps are going to be needed to assure witnesses and jurors of their safety so that they can do their job and not be intimidated from reaching a just result. whichever way that justice requires, they won't be intimidated from reaching the right result. >> it's such an alarming but important point andrew is making there, neal. the fact is, people like judge tanya chutkan, judge engoron, they've become kind of household names as a lot of people involved in these trials and cases have been, that could be certainly the case with other witnesses. would they be facing this kind of harassment if not for him? is there any question in your mind? >> there is no question in my mind that they wouldn't, jen. judges, prosecutors, witnesses, court officials, they shouldn't need round the clock protection. and

it's defendant trump's hateful and distasteful rhetoric that spewing these kinds of threats. particularly given the lead into this, when you are talking about iowa and the other primaries, to me one of the questions is what did these episodes say about donald trump? and i think they say a lot, because jen, when you and i were in the government, if we made any sort of stray remarks that could wind up hurting someone, we would bend over backwards to make sure that didn't happen. we'd issue corrective statements, this, that, the other. it's not just us in the government, every kid who has watched spider-man nose with great power comes great responsibility. and trump had put an end to all of this with a single social media post. the public knows it, the officials know it, trump knows it. he is making a deliberate decision to stay quiet, about these threats, and stirred up, and then pretend, who, me? i had nothing to do with them. it's preposterous and horrible. >> i

want to just look ahead here, because there are so many cases that we are waiting on, including the d. c. circuit to rule on trump's claim of immunity any day now. so let me ask both of you, if they do rule against trump, which i think most legal experts are expecting them to do, but he's going to take it to the supreme court, where he expects that too. let me start with you andrew, do you think the supreme court would take this up? i'm trying to figure out the actions of what would happen here. >> i don't know that the supreme court will take it up. i used to think it was clear they would, but the argument was so preposterous, this is really one where i think trump is trying to win the war but may lose the battle. and what i mean by that is this is all about delay rather than the merits of the case. so the thing i'm keeping my eye on is when the d. c. circuit rules against him, how much time do they give, and sort of limit with respect to sending this back to judge chutkan. because i think that's the whole ball game, is how

tight a leash will there be on that timeframe so that he can't play out the clock. >> neal, you have argued, you spent a lot of time in the supreme court, arguing cases, thinking about the supreme court. a lot of time. what is your thought on here and what could happen? >> i don't think the supreme court is likely to hear the case, jen. i mean, trump's claims are so unhinged that the president can do whatever he wants and murdered people with seal team six, this is crazy. the supreme court i don't think is going to have much appetite for this. so i'm looking for three things. i'm looking for the rationale of the court of appeals decision, the timing of the court of appeals decision, and then technically, do they stay the mandate? do they allow the march 4th trial date to proceed as is? i'm suspecting that they're going to do all of those things, and basically -- closely to what judge chutkan found already, which means that this trial -- it's doubtful at this moment. -- based on such a

bogus theory. >> march is coming soon. and before i let you both go, the e. jean carroll trial, which begins on tuesday, it's hard to keep track of all these things. great to have both of you. it's almost become an afterthought, but why, and, you should we not lose sight of this one specifically? >> well, this is an important example of donald trump not adhering to the rule of law. he was already found liable by a jury, and then proceeded to continue to defame e. jean carroll. and that is not just me saying it, that's the federal judge overseeing this, has found liability. so the case is going to be about the damages and needed to deter donald trump from continuing his defamation of e. jean carroll, who he has been found to have sexually assaulted and defamed. so, again, if you're thinking about who to vote for, you would think you might be

interested in knowing what a jury, a unanimous jury found here. and you should keep your eyes on what the second jury is going to be doing in connection with the monetary judgment against him. >> you would think. what a year. neal katyal and andrew weissmann, thank you both so much for your time this afternoon. coming up, on the eve of the iowa caucuses, where so much of the attention will be on the gop candidates, i'll tell you about one internal member from the biden campaign that should stop democrats for a moment from freaking out. plus, the presidents reelection team explains why they decided to fully embrace the dark brandon names, right-wing trolls thought they would play against him. we are back, right against him. we are back, right after a quick break.ng with hiv. i don't have to worry about daily hiv pills because i switched to every-other-month cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. now when i have people over, hiv pills aren't on my mind. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients,

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election. but believe it or not, most people are not attuned. most people haven't even started to pay attention to the state of the race. or come to terms with the likeliest of scenarios, a rematch between joe biden and donald trump. and believe me, i get it. it's only january and there's still a very long way to go until november. a lots of things going on in their lives. but according to internal polling from the biden campaign, as of now, a majority of undecided voters, three out of four, do not seem to believe, at least not yet, that donald trump is likely to be the republican presidential nominee. and as surprising as that may sound, that also tracked with public polling on how closely voters are watching the 2024 election at this point. according to an ap poll, only 20% of respondents said that they have been following this year's presidential election closely so far. while almost half, 47%, say they have paid little to no attention. so, given that voter uncertainty, the biden campaign is making a bet. they're working theory is that the president's numbers could be hitting the floor right now.

and that once the choice becomes clear, people will not be able to look away from the fact that the race will be between joe biden and the guy who takes credit for killing roe. the guy who openly hopes the economy crashes, the guy who in court is arguing that a president should be able to off their political opponent without criminal consequences. the biden team's bet is that when voters come to terms with the reality, that they will need to pick between joe biden and that guy, then they will begin to move towards biden. like i said, things could absolutely change. lots of time. but all signs point to a rematch. and if trump emerges as the nominee, the republican party will absolutely coalesce around him. just listen to what nikki haley's most vocal supporter, new hampshire governor chris sununu, had to say just this week. >> even if he is a convicted felon, if he is the republican nominee, does that mean your still going to vote for him? >> look, i think right now, most of america looks like they

would vote for him. because he is winning. biden is so bad that trump is actually beating biden in most polls. most of america is right there. i'm gonna support the republican nominee, absolutely. that shouldn't shock anybody. >> it's not a great sign that things will change in the republican party when one of trump's more vocal opponents is already saying he will support him if he has to. now, conventional campaign wisdom usually suggests that if you are the incumbent president, you want to see the opposing parties primary fight drag out as long as possible. let him spend money, let them fight over each other. but the biden team is getting ready for when the inevitable rematch with trump finally becomes clear to

voters. right now, 3 to 4 undecided voters may not think that this is a choice. but pretty soon, that reality maybe staring everyone in the face. coming up, a look inside biden campaign headquarters. i talked to some of the key players behind the digital strategy, the communications strategy, and the ground game. we will show you all of it, next. tum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. ♪ today, my friend you did it, you did it, you did it... ♪ centrum silver is now clinically shown to support cognitive health in older adults. it's one more step towards taking charge of your health. so every day, you can say, ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis.

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sara federico: at st. jude, we don't care who cures cancer. we just need to advance the cure. it's a bold initiative to try and bump cure rates all around the world, but we should. it is our commitment. we need to do this. as the world keeps moving, help prevent covid-19 from breaking your momentum. you may have already been vaccinated against the flu, but don't forget this season's updated covid-19 shot too. >> so we may be hours away from the official kickoff of the gop kickoff, therefore election season, basically. this last week felt like they kick off to joe biden's case against the

twice impeached, four times indicted, gop front runner. >> all our wars is what trump wants. that is why he doesn't understand the most fundamental truth about this country. >> losers are taught to concede. he is a loser. >> it is a clear preview of what is to come. this week i learned more about what is and start when i paid a visit to the biden harris headquarters in wilmington to see what's happening behind the scenes. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> could not be here at a better time given that the president gave two major speeches where he laid out the strongest contrast to take with donald trump. you had these two powerful speeches that were lauded, for good reason, across the country, you have donald trump, the same weekend, calling the insurrectionists hostages. suggested he wants the economy to crash. it seems

hard, sometimes, because he blocks out the sun, right? of coverage by national media. rob, tell us about what is happening behind the scenes to reach people, reach voters, accomplishments, of the contrasts, and what that messaging looks like on the biden team. >> the most important thing is trump is often his own worst negative -- and it's important for us to not always be chasing every single controversy. we get lost in that too. it's important to focus on what we need to communicate to voters. >> it is all of the above. it's important to remember right now, we are dealing with someone, this is not 2016. this is someone who is trying to regain

power. he has four years up four seats. our job is to communicate to the american people, not only the harm that he cause when he was in office, but reminding them every single day as he's out there on the stump. >> let me ask you about another topic that comes up. i get asked about this a lot. it pops up in polls. it shows in focus groups. you, rob, were a part of, i know not alone, but flipping the dark random mean to make it more of a winner. how do you combat this kind of ongoing attack on his age and these attacks and suggestions that he is not up for the job. >> the american people know joe biden's age. they also know that with that age comes wisdom, experience, judgment. that is why they elected him in the first place. they would also say that those qualities that in stark contrast to everybody else on the other side. particularly as it relates to donald trump. >> there are three different things i think about. one, the dark brand stuff works because yes it is funny. yes it is sort of meme the. it is based on that truth. >> the aviators with thanks shooting out of them. i don't know if he responsible to, that that was my favorite. >> we are not responsible for it, it's a bunch of people who support the president who are doing it themselves. that speaks to a core truth about the presidents experience and his ability to get things done. >> you guys decided to join truth social, which is a

platform that donald trump created when he was kicked off of twitter. at that time you said it was funny. not you personally, the campaign said -- you personally said, yes. but in terms of the larger strategy, talk to me about the thinking behind the getting into donald trump's space. which truth social definitely as. >> the decision to get on truth social is partially because we said it would be funny. it is also important to be able to shape conversations even in pockets of the electorate that do not like us. necessarily. to be able to engage and that discussion. >> since you know more about digital strategy that most people, where do you think most people are engaging that, those people that follow traditional media are not tracking -- >> conversations about politics are happening on every platform that you can possibly imagine, and some that you possibly couldn't. one of the things that is a very important to note is that a significant

amount of the conversation that happens online actually happens in private. it's not happening on social feats, it's happening on the am groups, in text messages. this ceo of instagram set 50% of content shared on instagram happens in these private spaces. >> i know you spent time with the president over a couple of days. you have worked for him for a long time. how does he feel about the campaign kicking off? >> he is great, excited, ready for this campaign and stark choice that we can present to the american people, to kick into high gear in 2024. >> he loves talking to people, and campaign. >> more than most people. certainly more than me. >> if he came for the digital proposals your putting forward? >> absolutely. all the dark branded jokes and videos you have seen, he's leaning into them. >> there you go. >> long live dark brandon. >> this is a place you go regularly? >> brouhaha in wilmington.

>> this is the coffee place. >> they tell people it's across the street from our headquarters. >> so you don't just hang out with joe biden at campaign events, you are overseen a lot of swath of this campaign. there are a lot of people who woke up on january 1st and hopefully thoughts, i have to get engaged and politics. i need to know what's happening. what is happening internally and the campaign? beyond the messaging. is it six or seven states? >> we have been staffing up our states, battleground states. we have michigan, nevada, georgia, looking to hire in georgia, pennsylvania, get into those places. we've been doing innovative programs to ensure we can reach people. >> you came to this job with a lot of georgia experience. important georgia experience, including the campaign of

senator warnock. are there things from that race that are lessons to how you are approaching your role in this job? >> for me, most importantly, georgia's home. it will always have a special place in my heart. it is also really important. democracy was on the ballot in georgia as well. it is a lesson that these people are invested. democrats have a message. they can communicate to them. it's going to places democrats don't normally go to deliver a message. >> let's talk about abortion rights. is abortion rights going to be the same type of driver it was in 2022? you have to think about turnout in your job. >> for sure. i think that republicans have underestimated this issue at every turn. voters came out in force against it in 2022. just recently, again, 2023. and places like kentucky, ohio, and there are fumbling over themselves over whether this is a messaging problem. it is a policy position problem. donald trump is running television advertisement, where again that he appointed justices that took

away a woman's right to choose. >> aren't there are states that democrats have a big hope about texas and florida. are those places the biden campaign is going to invest? have people on the ground, and operation campaign? >> as you know, you win the presidency by getting electoral votes. our goal is to keep all our options open. when you talk about florida, and really coming off the question you just asked about abortion rights, people in florida are fighting like hell for their freedoms. as long as they're doing that, our campaign will be right there, and short they have a place and the biden harris coalition. we will do everything we can, if any state comes online throughout the course of the cycle, we will be in a place to capitalize on it. >> thank you to the biden campaign, staffers who showed me around the headquarters. there are dark branded cutoffs, i can tell you. that does it for me today. there is a very busy week ahead. tomorrow i kick off coverage of the iowa caucuses as voters prepare to cast their ballots. four pm eastern at msnbc. then at seven, rachel maddow and team break down results at the famous big board. for now, stay right

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